TEDxPSU
Sam Richards: A radical experiment in empathy
山姆·理查茲：關於同理心的激進實驗
Filmed:
Readability: 2.8
1,777,039 views
在TEDxPSU大會上，社會學家山姆·理查茲一步一步地引導在座的美國人走過一個很有挑戰性的思維過程。這個挑戰就是：美國人能不能理解——不是贊同，而是理解——伊拉克武裝動亂者的動機？退而廣之，有沒有人真的能夠理解並與以同理心對待他人？
Sam Richards - Sociologist
Sam Richards is a sociologist and teacher of the largest race relations course in the US. He argues that empathy is the core of sociology. Full bio
Sam Richards is a sociologist and teacher of the largest race relations course in the US. He argues that empathy is the core of sociology. Full bio
Double-click the English transcript below to play the video.
00:15
My students often ask me,
0
0
3000
我的學生經常問我，
00:18
"What is sociology?"
1
3000
2000
「甚麼是社會學？」
00:20
And I tell them, "It's the study
2
5000
2000
我告訴他們，「它是研究
00:22
of the way in which human beings
3
7000
2000
人類是如何
00:24
are shaped by things that they don't see."
4
9000
3000
被自己看不見的東西所塑造的學科。」
00:27
And they say, "So how can I be a sociologist?
5
12000
4000
然後他們問：「那我要如何成為一個社會學家？
00:31
How can I understand those invisible forces?"
6
16000
2000
我如何理解那些看不見的力量？」
00:33
And I say, "Empathy.
7
18000
2000
我就會回答說：「同理心，
00:35
Start with empathy.
8
20000
2000
從同理心開始
00:37
It all begins with empathy.
9
22000
3000
一切源自同理心。
00:40
Take yourself out of your shoes,
10
25000
2000
從你自己固有的角落走出來，
00:42
put yourself into the shoes of another person."
11
27000
2000
從別人的角度來看問題。」
00:44
Here, I'll give you an example.
12
29000
3000
我來給你舉個例子。
00:47
So I imagine my life:
13
32000
2000
我曾經設想，
00:49
if a hundred years ago
14
34000
2000
如果一百年前，
00:51
China had been the most powerful nation in the world
15
36000
2000
當中國是世界上最強大的國家的時候，
00:53
and they came to the United States
16
38000
2000
他們來到美國
00:55
in search of coal,
17
40000
2000
搜尋煤炭
00:57
and they found it, and, in fact, they found lots of it right here.
18
42000
3000
然後他們找到了，並且，他們找到很多。
01:00
And pretty soon, they began shipping that coal,
19
45000
3000
很快，他們開始運輸那些煤礦，
01:03
ton by ton,
20
48000
2000
一噸又一噸，
01:05
rail car by rail car, boatload by boatload,
21
50000
3000
一車又一車，一船又一船，
01:08
back to China and elsewhere around the world.
22
53000
4000
運回中國及世界其他地方。
01:12
And they got fabulously wealthy in doing so.
23
57000
3000
他們因此變得非常富有。
01:15
And they built beautiful cities
24
60000
2000
他們用煤炭作為能源動力，
01:17
all powered on that coal.
25
62000
4000
建造了美麗的城市。
01:22
And back here in the United States,
26
67000
3000
我們把視線轉回美國，
01:25
we saw economic despair, deprivation.
27
70000
2000
我們看到的是經濟蕭條破敗。
01:27
This is what I saw.
28
72000
2000
這是我看到的。
01:29
I saw people struggling to get by,
29
74000
3000
我看到人們掙扎着糊口，
01:32
not knowing what was what and what was next.
30
77000
3000
茫然無措，求助無門。
01:35
And then I asked myself the question.
31
80000
2000
然後我就會問自己
01:37
I say, "How's it possible that we could be so poor here in the United States,
32
82000
3000
「美國怎麼會變得這麼貧窮？
01:40
because the coal is such a wealthy resource,
33
85000
2000
因為我們的煤炭資源是這樣的有價值，
01:42
it's so much money?"
34
87000
2000
值很多錢。」
01:44
And I realized,
35
89000
2000
然後我意識到，
01:46
because the Chinese ingratiated themselves
36
91000
3000
原來是因為中國對於
01:49
with a small ruling class here in the United States
37
94000
3000
美國小部分統治階層投其所好，
01:52
who stole all of that money and all of that wealth for themselves.
38
97000
4000
這小部分同志階層自己取得了這些煤炭帶來的財富。
01:56
And the rest of us, the vast majority of us,
39
101000
2000
其餘大部分美國人，我們這些普通人
01:58
struggle to get by.
40
103000
2000
掙扎着糊口。
02:00
And the Chinese gave this small ruling elite
41
105000
3000
中國給這些統治精英階層
02:03
loads of military weapons and sophisticated technology
42
108000
3000
大量的軍事武器和尖端科技，
02:06
in order to ensure that people like me
43
111000
3000
以保證像我這樣的普通民眾
02:09
would not speak out against this relationship.
44
114000
3000
不至於表達對於這種關係的反對意見。
02:13
Does this sound familiar?
45
118000
3000
這個故事是不是聽著很熟悉？
02:16
And they did things like train Americans
46
121000
2000
然後他們做了一些事，比如訓練美國人
02:18
to help protect the coal.
47
123000
2000
幫忙保護煤礦。
02:20
And everywhere, were symbols of the Chinese --
48
125000
3000
到處都是中國的印記——
02:23
everywhere, a constant reminder.
49
128000
3000
任何地方，不斷地提醒我們中國的存在。
02:26
And back in China,
50
131000
2000
我們再回到中國，
02:28
what do they say in China?
51
133000
2000
中國人都在談論什麼？
02:30
Nothing. They don't talk about us. They don't talk about the coal.
52
135000
3000
他們對此隻字不談。他們不談論美國。不談論煤礦。
02:33
If you ask them,
53
138000
2000
如果你問中國人，
02:35
they'll say, "Well, you know the coal, we need the coal.
54
140000
2000
他們會說：「好吧，你知道煤礦的重要性，我們需要煤礦。
02:37
I mean, come on, I'm not going to turn down my thermostat.
55
142000
3000
我說，你別指望我調低我家暖氣的溫度。
02:40
You can't expect that."
56
145000
3000
別指望這會發生。」
02:43
And so I get angry, and I get pissed,
57
148000
3000
於是我生氣了，我非常惱火，
02:46
as do lots of average people.
58
151000
2000
就像大多數普通人那樣。
02:48
And we fight back, and it gets really ugly.
59
153000
3000
然後我們開始抗議，情況變得很難堪。
02:51
And the Chinese respond in a very ugly way.
60
156000
3000
中國也以一種非常不友好的方式回應我們。
02:55
And before we know it, they send in the tanks
61
160000
3000
我們還沒反應過來，他們就已經派來坦克，
02:58
and then send in the troops,
62
163000
2000
之後由派進來軍隊，
03:00
and lots of people are dying,
63
165000
2000
很多人因此死去，
03:02
and it's a very, very difficult situation.
64
167000
5000
情況變得很難處理
03:07
Can you imagine what you would feel
65
172000
3000
如果你是我，你能想象
03:10
if you were in my shoes?
66
175000
2000
你會怎麼想嗎？
03:12
Can you imagine walking out of this building
67
177000
3000
你能想象，當你走出這裡，
03:15
and seeing a tank sitting out there
68
180000
2000
看到一個坦克停在那兒
03:17
or a truck full of soldiers?
69
182000
3000
或者一大卡車士兵。
03:20
And just imagine what you would feel.
70
185000
2000
想象一下你會有甚麼感覺。
03:22
Because you know why they're here, and you know what they're doing here.
71
187000
3000
因為你知道這些士兵為甚麼來這兒，你也知道他們在這兒做甚麼。
03:25
And you just feel the anger and you feel the fear.
72
190000
4000
然後你就感到憤怒和恐懼。
03:29
If you can, that's empathy -- that's empathy.
73
194000
3000
如果你能感覺到，這就說明你有同理心——這就是同理心。
03:32
You've left your shoes, and you've stood in mine.
74
197000
3000
你從自己的世界裡走出來，來以我的角度來看問題。
03:35
And you've got to feel that.
75
200000
2000
你已經感覺到了tonglixin。
03:37
Okay, so that's the warm up.
76
202000
2000
好的，這是熱身。
03:39
That's the warm up.
77
204000
2000
這只是熱身。
03:41
Now we're going to have
78
206000
2000
現在我們將開始
03:43
the real radical experiment.
79
208000
2000
真正激進的實驗。
03:45
And so for the remainder of my talk, what I want you to do
80
210000
3000
在下面的時間裡，我希望你們
03:48
is put yourselves in the shoes
81
213000
2000
從一個
03:50
of an ordinary Arab Muslim
82
215000
3000
居住在中東的普通阿拉伯穆斯林
03:53
living in the Middle East --
83
218000
2000
的角度出發——
03:55
in particular, in Iraq.
84
220000
3000
具體點說就是伊拉克
03:59
And so to help you,
85
224000
2000
為了幫助你進入狀態，
04:01
perhaps you're a member of this middle class family in Baghdad --
86
226000
4000
假設你是巴格達一個中產階級家庭的一員，
04:05
and what you want is the best for your kids.
87
230000
3000
你希望給你的孩子們創造最好的環境。
04:08
You want your kids to have a better life.
88
233000
2000
你希望你的孩子過更好的生活。
04:10
And you watch the news, you pay attention,
89
235000
2000
平時你看新聞，關心大事。
04:12
you read the newspaper, you go down to the coffee shop with your friends,
90
237000
3000
你看報紙，你和朋友們去咖啡館，
04:15
and you read the newspapers from around the world.
91
240000
2000
讀世界各地的報紙。
04:17
And sometimes you even watch satellite,
92
242000
2000
有時候你甚至看衛星電視，
04:19
CNN, from the United States.
93
244000
2000
美國的CNN。
04:21
So you have a sense of what the Americans are thinking.
94
246000
2000
你大致知道美國人在想什麼。
04:23
But really, you just want a better life for yourself.
95
248000
3000
但是，說到底，你只是希望自己過得更好，
04:26
That's what you want.
96
251000
2000
那才是你想要的。
04:28
You're Arab Muslim living in Iraq.
97
253000
2000
你是住在伊拉克的阿拉伯穆斯林，
04:30
You want a better life for yourself.
98
255000
2000
你想過得更好。
04:32
So here, let me help you.
99
257000
2000
在這兒，我來幫你，
04:34
Let me help you with some things
100
259000
2000
我來幫你梳理一下
04:36
that you might be thinking.
101
261000
2000
你也許正在思考的問題。
04:38
Number one: this incursion into your land
102
263000
3000
一：過去20年間，
04:41
these past 20 years, and before,
103
266000
2000
甚至更早，你的國土被入侵，
04:43
the reason anyone is interested in your land, and particularly the United States,
104
268000
3000
所有人，特別是美國，都對你的國土感興趣，
04:46
it's oil.
105
271000
2000
其原因就是石油。
04:48
It's all about oil; you know that, everybody knows that.
106
273000
3000
都是因為石油；這是事實你知我知天下人都知道。
04:51
People here back in the United States know it's about oil.
107
276000
3000
美國人也知道這是為了石油。
04:54
It's because somebody else
108
279000
2000
因為別人
04:56
has a design for your resource.
109
281000
3000
在盤算你的資源
04:59
It's your resource; it's not somebody else's.
110
284000
3000
這是你的資源，不是別人的。
05:02
It's your land; it's your resource.
111
287000
3000
這是你的國土，你的資源。
05:05
Somebody else has a design for it.
112
290000
2000
有人盤算着你的資源
05:07
And you know why they have a design?
113
292000
2000
你知道他們是為什麼盤算你的石油？
05:09
You know why they have their eyes set on it?
114
294000
2000
你知道他們為甚麼對此這麼感興趣？
05:11
Because they have an entire economic system
115
296000
2000
因為他們的這個經濟
05:13
that's dependent on that oil --
116
298000
2000
依賴石油而存在——
05:15
foreign oil,
117
300000
2000
並且是進口石油，
05:17
oil from other parts of the world that they don't own.
118
302000
3000
來自他們的國土之外的石油。
05:20
And what else do you think about these people?
119
305000
2000
關於這些人，你還想到甚麼？
05:22
The Americans, they're rich.
120
307000
2000
這些美國人，他們很富有。
05:24
Come on, they live in big houses, they have big cars,
121
309000
2000
拜託，他們住在大房子裡，他們有大汽車，
05:26
they all have blond hair, blue eyes, they're happy.
122
311000
2000
他們都是金髮碧眼，他們很幸福。
05:28
You think that. It's not true, of course,
123
313000
2000
你會這麼想。當然這不是真的，
05:30
but that's the media impression, and that's like what you get.
124
315000
3000
但這是媒體給人的印象，這是他們所得到的信息。
05:33
And they have big cities,
125
318000
2000
美國有大城市，
05:35
and the cities are all dependent on oil.
126
320000
3000
這些大城市都依賴石油。
05:39
And back home, what do you see?
127
324000
2000
回到家裡，你看到甚麼？
05:41
Poverty, despair, struggle.
128
326000
2000
貧窮，絕望，掙扎。
05:43
Look, you don't live in a wealthy country.
129
328000
3000
看，你不住在一個富裕的國家。
05:46
This is Iraq.
130
331000
3000
這是伊拉克，
05:50
This is what you see.
131
335000
2000
這是你看到，
05:52
You see people struggling to get by.
132
337000
2000
你看到人們掙扎求生。
05:54
I mean, it's not easy; you see a lot of poverty.
133
339000
2000
沒錯，世事艱難，你也看到很多貧困現象，
05:56
And you feel something about this.
134
341000
2000
並且你對此有一些感觸。
05:58
These people have designs for your resource,
135
343000
2000
這些人在盤算你的資源，
06:00
and this is what you see?
136
345000
2000
而你看到這些現狀。
06:02
Something else you see that you talk about --
137
347000
2000
你還看到一些其他你們在討論的東西——
06:04
Americans don't talk about this, but you do.
138
349000
2000
美國人不討論這些，但是你們會。
06:06
There's this thing, this militarization of the world,
139
351000
3000
比如說，世界的軍國主義化，
06:09
and it's centered right in the United States.
140
354000
2000
並且美國現在有保守化傾向。
06:11
And the United States
141
356000
2000
並且美國
06:13
is responsible for almost one half
142
358000
3000
的軍費佔世界各國總軍費開支的
06:16
of the world's military spending --
143
361000
2000
二分之一——
06:18
four percent of the world's population.
144
363000
2000
他們僅有世界上百分之四的人口。
06:20
And you feel it; you see it every day.
145
365000
3000
你每天都能感覺到、看到這些情況，
06:23
It's part of your life.
146
368000
2000
這是你生活的一部分。
06:25
And you talk about it with your friends.
147
370000
2000
你和朋友們談論這些，
06:27
You read about it.
148
372000
3000
你閱讀相關的內容。
06:30
And back when Saddam Hussein was in power,
149
375000
3000
當薩達姆.侯賽因當權的時候，
06:33
the Americans didn't care about his crimes.
150
378000
3000
美國不關心他的罪行。
06:36
When he was gassing the Kurds and gassing Iran,
151
381000
2000
當他用毒氣攻擊庫爾德人和伊朗時，
06:38
they didn't care about it.
152
383000
2000
美國沒不關心這些。
06:40
When oil was at stake,
153
385000
2000
當石油成為一個問題的時候，
06:42
somehow, suddenly, things mattered.
154
387000
4000
不知道為什麼，突然間事情變得對美國重要了。
06:47
And what you see, something else,
155
392000
2000
你看到了甚麼，別的一些東西，
06:49
the United States,
156
394000
2000
美國，
06:51
the hub of democracy around the world,
157
396000
2000
作為世界民主的中心，
06:53
they don't seem to really be
158
398000
2000
他們似乎並不真的
06:55
supporting democratic countries all around the world.
159
400000
4000
支持世界上的民主國家。
06:59
There are a lot of countries, oil-producing countries,
160
404000
3000
有好多這樣的國家，產油國，
07:02
that aren't very democratic, but supported by the United States.
161
407000
3000
他们不是非常民主，但美国支持他们。
07:05
That's odd.
162
410000
2000
这很奇怪。
07:07
Oh, these incursions, these two wars,
163
412000
3000
哦，这些侵略，两次战争，
07:10
the 10 years of sanctions,
164
415000
2000
十年的制裁，
07:12
the eight years of occupation,
165
417000
4000
八年的佔領，
07:16
the insurgency that's been unleashed on your people,
166
421000
3000
由你自己的人民發動的叛亂，
07:19
the tens of thousands, the hundreds of thousands
167
424000
3000
成百上千的
07:22
of civilian deaths,
168
427000
5000
平民死亡，
07:27
all because of oil.
169
432000
3000
都是因為石油。
07:30
You can't help but think that.
170
435000
2000
你忍不住思考，
07:32
You talk about it.
171
437000
2000
和談論這些。
07:34
It's in the forefront of your mind always.
172
439000
3000
它總是在你頭腦中佔據首要位置。
07:37
You say, "How is that possible?"
173
442000
3000
你說：“這怎麼可能？”
07:40
And this man, he's every man --
174
445000
3000
然後這個人，他可以是任何人——
07:43
your grandfather, your uncle,
175
448000
2000
你祖父，你叔叔，
07:45
your father, your son,
176
450000
2000
你父親，你兒子，
07:47
your neighbor, your professor, your student.
177
452000
3000
你的鄰居，你的教授，你的學生。
07:50
Once a life of happiness and joy
178
455000
3000
曾經幸福快樂的生活，
07:53
and suddenly, pain and sorrow.
179
458000
3000
突然變成痛苦和悲傷。
07:56
Everyone in your country
180
461000
3000
你國家的每一個人
07:59
has been touched by the violence,
181
464000
3000
都被動亂所影響，
08:02
the bloodshed, the pain,
182
467000
2000
流血，痛苦，
08:04
the horror, everybody.
183
469000
2000
恐懼，每個人都被影響。
08:06
Not a single person in your country
184
471000
3000
在你的國家裡，
08:09
has not been touched.
185
474000
2000
沒有一個人不被影響。
08:11
But there's something else.
186
476000
2000
還有
08:13
There's something else about these people,
187
478000
2000
在伊拉克的這些美國人
08:15
these Americans who are there.
188
480000
2000
還有別的一些問題
08:17
There's something else about them that you see -- they don't see themselves.
189
482000
3000
有一些你看到的而他們自己沒有意識到的問題。
08:20
And what do you see? They're Christians.
190
485000
3000
你看到了什麼問題？問題就是，他們是基督徒，
08:23
They're Christians.
191
488000
2000
他們是基督徒。
08:25
They worship the Christian God, they have crosses, they carry Bibles.
192
490000
3000
他們崇拜耶穌，他們有十字架，他們帶著聖經。
08:28
Their Bibles have a little insignia
193
493000
2000
他們的聖經上有一個
08:30
that says "U.S. Army" on them.
194
495000
3000
寫著「美國陸軍」的小徽章。
08:34
And their leaders, their leaders:
195
499000
3000
他們的領導者，他們的領導者，
08:37
before they send their sons and daughters
196
502000
2000
在他們送他們的兒子女兒們
08:39
off to war in your country --
197
504000
2000
上你們國家的戰場之前，
08:41
and you know the reason --
198
506000
2000
你知道其中的原由——
08:43
before they send them off,
199
508000
2000
在送他們出發前，
08:45
they go to a Christian church, and they pray to their Christian God,
200
510000
2000
他們去基督教堂，他們向耶穌祈禱，
08:47
and they ask for protection and guidance from that god.
201
512000
3000
他們祈求上帝的保護和指引。
08:50
Why?
202
515000
2000
為甚麼？
08:52
Well, obviously, when people die in the war,
203
517000
4000
很顯然，當人們在戰爭中死去時，
08:56
they are Muslims, they are Iraqis --
204
521000
2000
他們是穆斯林，他們是伊拉克人——
08:58
they're not Americans.
205
523000
2000
他們不是美國人。
09:00
You don't want Americans to die. Protect our troops.
206
525000
3000
你不希望美國人死。希望上帝保護我們的軍隊，
09:03
And you feel something about that --
207
528000
2000
你感覺到這些了——
09:05
of course you do.
208
530000
2000
裡所應當的。
09:07
And they do wonderful things.
209
532000
2000
美國軍隊做了一些好事，
09:09
You read about it, you hear about it.
210
534000
2000
你讀到了、聽到了關於這些事情的內容。
09:11
They're there to build schools and help people, and that's what they want to do.
211
536000
2000
他們建造學校，並幫助那兒的人，這是他們想做的。
09:13
They do wonderful things, but they also do the bad things,
212
538000
2000
他們做了好事，但他們也做壞事，
09:15
and you can't tell the difference.
213
540000
2000
你看不出區別。
09:17
And this guy, you get a guy like Lt. Gen. William Boykin.
214
542000
4000
當你看到一個像威廉姆.博伊金中將那樣的人，
09:21
I mean, here's a guy who says that your God is a false God.
215
546000
3000
一個說你的神是虛假的神。
09:24
Your God's an idol; his God is the true God.
216
549000
2000
你的上帝是一個偶像，他的上帝才是真的。
09:26
The solution to the problem in the Middle East, according to him,
217
551000
3000
對他來說，解決中東問題的辦法，
09:29
is to convert you all to Christianity --
218
554000
2000
就是把大家都變成基督徒——
09:31
just get rid of your religion.
219
556000
2000
去處你的宗教。
09:33
And you know that. Americans don't read about this guy.
220
558000
2000
你知道這些。美國人不關心這個人。
09:35
They don't know anything about him, but you do.
221
560000
3000
他們對他一無所知，但是你知道。
09:38
You pass it around. You pass his words around.
222
563000
2000
你把它傳播給別人，你把他的話傳給周圍的人。
09:40
I mean this is serious. You're afraid.
223
565000
3000
我是說真的。
09:43
He was one of the leading commanders in the second invasion of Iraq.
224
568000
3000
這個人是第二次入侵伊拉克時的其中一個指揮官。
09:46
And you're thinking, "God, if this guy is saying that,
225
571000
3000
你在想：「上帝啊，如果這個人這麼想，
09:49
then all the soldiers must be saying that."
226
574000
2000
那他手下全體士兵都會這麼想的。」
09:51
And this word here,
227
576000
2000
還有一個詞，
09:53
George Bush called this war a crusade.
228
578000
2000
喬治.布什稱這個戰爭為聖戰。
09:55
Man, the Americans, they're just like, "Ah, crusade.
229
580000
2000
美國人們只會說，「哦，聖戰。
09:57
Whatever. I don't know."
230
582000
2000
管它呢，愛怎樣怎樣。」
09:59
You know what it means.
231
584000
2000
但你知道聖戰意味著什麼。
10:01
It's a holy war against Muslims.
232
586000
2000
這是針對穆斯林的聖戰。
10:03
Look, invade, subdue them, take their resources.
233
588000
3000
看，入侵，征服他們，拿走他們的資源，
10:06
If they won't submit, kill them.
234
591000
2000
如果他們不服從，就殺了他們。
10:08
That's what this is about.
235
593000
2000
就是這麼回事。
10:10
And you're thinking, "My God, these Christians are coming to kill us."
236
595000
3000
你在想，「我的天，這些基督徒將會殺了我們。」
10:13
This is frightening.
237
598000
2000
這很恐怖，
10:15
You feel frightened. Of course you feel frightened.
238
600000
3000
你被嚇到了。當然你會被嚇到。
10:18
And this man, Terry Jones:
239
603000
3000
這個人，泰瑞.瓊斯，
10:21
I mean here's a guy who wants to burn Korans, right?
240
606000
2000
他想要燒了所有古蘭經。
10:23
And the Americans: "Ah, he's a knucklehead.
241
608000
2000
美國人只是說：「哦，他是個傻瓜，
10:25
He's a former hotel manager;
242
610000
2000
他以前是個酒店經理；
10:27
he's got three-dozen members of his church."
243
612000
2000
他有大概三打的他們教會的成員支持他。」
10:29
They laugh him off. You don't laugh him off.
244
614000
2000
他們對他一笑置之。你沒有把他當兒戲，
10:31
Because in the context of everything else,
245
616000
2000
因為，在整個大背景下，
10:33
all the pieces fit.
246
618000
2000
一切說法都有意義。
10:35
I mean, of course, this is how Americans take it,
247
620000
2000
我的意思是，當然，這是美國人對待它的態度，
10:37
so people all over the Middle East, not just in your country,
248
622000
2000
但中東所有的人，不僅僅在你的國家，
10:39
are protesting.
249
624000
2000
都在抗議。
10:41
"He wants to burn Korans, our holy book.
250
626000
2000
「他想要燒了古蘭經，我們的聖書。
10:43
These Christians, who are these Christians?
251
628000
2000
這些基督徒，他們是誰？
10:45
They're so evil, they're so mean --
252
630000
2000
他們如此邪惡，他們如此卑劣——
10:47
this is what they're about."
253
632000
2000
他們就是這樣的。」
10:49
This is what you're thinking as an Arab Muslim,
254
634000
2000
這是你作為一個阿拉伯穆斯林，
10:51
as an Iraqi.
255
636000
2000
或一個伊拉克人在想的事，
10:53
Of course you're going to think this.
256
638000
2000
你當然會這麼想。
10:55
And then your cousin
257
640000
2000
然後，你的堂姐
10:57
says, "Hey cuz, check out this website.
258
642000
2000
說：「嘿，堂弟，看看這個網站。
10:59
You've got to see this -- Bible Boot Camp.
259
644000
2000
你得看看這個——聖經訓練營，
11:01
These Christians are nuts.
260
646000
2000
這些基督徒瘋了，
11:03
They're training their little kids to be soldiers for Jesus.
261
648000
3000
他們在訓練自己的小孩成為上帝的士兵，
11:06
And they take these little kids and they run them through these things
262
651000
2000
他們帶走這些孩子，把這些事情灌輸到他們的腦袋裡
11:08
till they teach them how to say, "Sir, yes, sir,"
263
653000
2000
直到他們學會說：『長官，是，長官』，
11:10
and things like grenade toss and weapons care and maintenance.
264
655000
3000
然後是投擲手榴彈和保養維修武器之類的事情。
11:13
And go to the website.
265
658000
2000
繼續看網站，
11:15
It says "U.S. Army" right on it.
266
660000
2000
上面寫著『美國陸軍』。
11:17
I mean, these Christians, they're nuts. How would they do this to their little kids?"
267
662000
3000
我是說，這些基督徒，他們瘋了，他們怎麼能對他們的小孩做這些？」
11:20
And you're reading this website.
268
665000
2000
然後你繼續瀏覽這個網站。
11:22
And of course, Christians back in the United States, or anybody,
269
667000
3000
當然，在美國的基督徒們，或者任何人，
11:25
says, "Ah, this is some little, tiny church in the middle of nowhere."
270
670000
2000
只會說：「哦，這只是一個偏僻地區的小教堂。」
11:27
You don't know that.
271
672000
2000
但你不知道這個。
11:29
For you, this is like all Christians.
272
674000
3000
對你來說，這代表了所有的基督徒，
11:32
It's all over the Web, Bible Boot Camp.
273
677000
2000
網絡上鋪天蓋地的都是它，聖經訓練營。
11:34
And look at this:
274
679000
2000
再看看這個
11:36
they even teach their kids --
275
681000
2000
他們甚至教他們的孩子——
11:38
they train them in the same way the U.S. Marines train.
276
683000
2000
他們在用美國海軍陸戰隊的訓練方法來訓練他們。
11:40
Isn't that interesting.
277
685000
2000
這不是很有趣嗎？
11:42
And it scares you, and it frightens you.
278
687000
2000
它把你嚇著了。
11:44
So these guys, you see them.
279
689000
2000
這些人，你看他們。
11:46
You see, I, Sam Richards, I know who these guys are.
280
691000
3000
你看，我，山姆.理查茲，我知道這些人是誰。
11:49
They're my students, my friends.
281
694000
2000
他們是我的學生，我的朋友，
11:51
I know what they're thinking: "You don't know."
282
696000
2000
我知道他們在想甚麼：「你不知道。」
11:53
When you see them,
283
698000
2000
你看到他們時，
11:55
they're something else, they're something else.
284
700000
3000
他們意味着別的東西。
11:58
That's what they are to you.
285
703000
3000
他們對你來說是這樣。
12:01
We don't see it that way in the United States,
286
706000
3000
在美國我們不這麼看，
12:04
but you see it that way.
287
709000
3000
但是你們這麼看。
12:09
So here.
288
714000
2000
所以這裡，
12:11
Of course, you got it wrong.
289
716000
2000
當然，你錯了。
12:13
You're generalizing. It's wrong.
290
718000
3000
你在不合理的退而廣之。這是不對的。
12:16
You don't understand the Americans.
291
721000
2000
你不了解美國人。
12:18
It's not a Christian invasion.
292
723000
2000
這不是基督教入侵。
12:20
We're not just there for oil; we're there for lots of reasons.
293
725000
2000
我們去那兒不僅僅為了石油，我們去那還有別的很多原因。
12:22
You have it wrong. You've missed it.
294
727000
2000
你錯了，你誤解了。
12:24
And of course, most of you don't support the insurgency;
295
729000
3000
當然了，你們中的大多數不支持武裝動亂；
12:27
you don't support killing Americans;
296
732000
2000
你們不贊成殺美國人，
12:29
you don't support the terrorists.
297
734000
2000
你們不支持恐怖分子。
12:31
Of course you don't. Very few people do.
298
736000
2000
你們當然不。只有很少人這樣，
12:33
But some of you do.
299
738000
3000
但是你們中的一些人支持，
12:36
And this is a perspective.
300
741000
3000
這是一種看法。
12:39
Okay, so now, here's what we're going to do.
301
744000
2000
好的，現在，我們將要
12:41
Step outside of your shoes
302
746000
2000
走出
12:43
that you're in right now
303
748000
2000
你現在的角度
12:45
and step back into your normal shoes.
304
750000
2000
回到正常的狀態
12:47
So everyone's back in the room, okay.
305
752000
2000
大家都回到這個房間了，好的
12:49
Now here comes the radical experiment.
306
754000
2000
激進的實驗來了。
12:51
So we're all back home.
307
756000
2000
於是我們都回家了。
12:53
This photo: this woman,
308
758000
2000
這張照片，這個女人，
12:55
man, I feel her.
309
760000
2000
天啊，我能感受到她的感受。
12:57
I feel her.
310
762000
2000
我理解她。
12:59
She's my sister,
311
764000
2000
她是我的姐妹
13:01
my wife, my cousin, my neighbor.
312
766000
3000
我的妻子，我的堂姐，我的鄰居。
13:04
She's anybody to me.
313
769000
2000
她對我來說是很親近。
13:06
These guys standing there, everybody in the photo,
314
771000
2000
這些人站在那兒，照片裡的每個人。
13:08
I feel this photo, man.
315
773000
3000
我看到這張照片有身處其境的感覺。
13:11
So here's what I want you to do.
316
776000
2000
接下來是我要你們做的。
13:13
Let's go back to my first example of the Chinese.
317
778000
3000
讓我們回到第一個關於中國的例子。
13:17
So I want you to go there.
318
782000
2000
我希望你想像那個情況/
13:19
So it's all about coal, and the Chinese are here in the United States.
319
784000
3000
都是為了煤礦，中國人在美國。
13:22
And what I want you to do is picture her as a Chinese woman
320
787000
2000
我要你們把她想像成一位中國婦女，
13:24
receiving a Chinese flag
321
789000
3000
她正在接收中國國旗，
13:27
because her loved one has died in America
322
792000
3000
因為她愛的人
13:30
in the coal uprising.
323
795000
2000
在美國在煤礦起義中被殺死了。
13:32
And the soldiers are Chinese,
324
797000
2000
現在士兵是中國人，
13:34
and everybody else is Chinese.
325
799000
2000
其他人也是中國人。
13:36
As an American, how do you feel about this picture?
326
801000
3000
作為一個美國人，你對這張照片有甚麼感覺？
13:41
What do you think about that scene?
327
806000
3000
你對這樣的場景怎麼想？
13:46
Okay, try this. Bring it back.
328
811000
2000
好的，試試看。再回到開始。
13:48
This is the scene here.
329
813000
2000
這是這兒的景象，
13:50
It's an American, American soldiers,
330
815000
2000
這是一個美國人，美國士兵，
13:52
American woman who lost her loved one
331
817000
2000
在中東——伊拉克或阿富汗——
13:54
in the Middle East -- in Iraq or Afghanistan.
332
819000
3000
失去所愛的人的美國婦女。
13:57
Now, put yourself in the shoes,
333
822000
2000
現在，把你自己放在這樣的處境中，
13:59
go back to the shoes
334
824000
2000
從一個
14:01
of an Arab Muslim living in Iraq.
335
826000
3000
伊拉克的阿拉伯穆斯林的角度去看。
14:05
What are you feeling and thinking
336
830000
3000
你感覺到、想到了甚麼？
14:08
about this photo,
337
833000
2000
當你看到這張照片
14:10
about this woman?
338
835000
3000
這個婦女時
14:20
Okay,
339
845000
2000
好的，
14:22
now follow me on this,
340
847000
2000
現在，跟著我，
14:24
because I'm taking a big risk here.
341
849000
2000
因為我在冒很大的風險。
14:26
And so I'm going to invite you to take a risk with me.
342
851000
3000
我也邀請你和我一起冒這個險，
14:29
These gentlemen here, they're insurgents.
343
854000
2000
这几位男士，他們是叛亂分子。
14:31
They were caught by the American soldiers,
344
856000
2000
他們因為想要殺美國士兵
14:33
trying to kill Americans.
345
858000
2000
被抓住，
14:35
And maybe they succeeded. Maybe they succeeded.
346
860000
3000
也許他們成功了，也許他們成功了。
14:38
Put yourself in the shoes
347
863000
2000
把你自己想像成
14:40
of the Americans who caught them.
348
865000
4000
抓他們的美國士兵。
14:44
Can you feel the rage?
349
869000
2000
你感到憤怒嗎？
14:46
Can you feel that you just want to take these guys
350
871000
2000
你能感覺到你想抓住這些人
14:48
and wring their necks?
351
873000
2000
扭他們的脖子嗎？
14:50
Can you go there?
352
875000
2000
能想象嗎？
14:52
It shouldn't be that difficult.
353
877000
2000
這不會太難。
14:54
You just -- oh, man.
354
879000
3000
你就是想——天啊。
14:59
Now, put yourself in their shoes.
355
884000
4000
現在，把你自己放到這些叛亂者的處境中，
15:05
Are they brutal killers
356
890000
2000
他們是野蠻的殺手
15:07
or patriotic defenders?
357
892000
3000
還是愛國的保衛者？
15:10
Which one?
358
895000
2000
是哪一個？
15:13
Can you feel their anger,
359
898000
3000
你能感到他們的憤怒、
15:16
their fear,
360
901000
2000
恐惧、
15:18
their rage
361
903000
2000
和暴怒嗎？
15:20
at what has happened in their country?
362
905000
2000
當他們的國家發生了這些。
15:22
Can you imagine
363
907000
2000
你能否想象，
15:24
that maybe one of them in the morning
364
909000
3000
也許他們中的一個，
15:27
bent down to their child and hugged their child
365
912000
3000
早上還彎下腰擁抱他的孩子
15:30
and said, "Dear, I'll be back later.
366
915000
4000
說：「寶貝兒，我一會就回來。
15:34
I'm going out to defend your freedom, your lives.
367
919000
3000
我是出去保衛你的自由，你的生命。
15:37
I'm going out to look out for us,
368
922000
4000
我是出去保衛
15:41
the future of our country."
369
926000
2000
我們國家的未來。」
15:43
Can you imagine that?
370
928000
2000
你能想象嗎？
15:45
Can you imagine saying that?
371
930000
3000
你能想象他正在說這些嗎？
15:48
Can you go there?
372
933000
3000
能嗎？
15:52
What do you think they're feeling?
373
937000
3000
你覺得他們是甚麼感覺？
16:02
You see, that's empathy.
374
947000
2000
你看，這就是同理心，
16:04
It's also understanding.
375
949000
3000
這也是理解。
16:07
Now, you might ask,
376
952000
2000
現在，你也許會問：
16:09
"Okay, Sam, so why do you do this sort of thing?
377
954000
3000
「好的，山姆，你為甚麼做這些事情？
16:12
Why would you use this example of all examples?"
378
957000
2000
你為甚麼選了這個例子？”
16:14
And I say, because ... because.
379
959000
3000
我說，因為…因為，
16:17
You're allowed to hate these people.
380
962000
2000
你可以憎恨這些人，
16:19
You're allowed to just hate them
381
964000
3000
你可以用盡所有力量來
16:22
with every fiber of your being.
382
967000
2000
憎恨他們。
16:24
And if I can get you
383
969000
2000
如果我可以讓你們
16:26
to step into their shoes
384
971000
2000
置身於他們的處境
16:28
and walk an inch,
385
973000
2000
進行一些思考
16:30
one tiny inch,
386
975000
2000
很簡單的思考，
16:32
then imagine the kind of sociological analysis
387
977000
3000
然後設想一下你將這種社會學分析方法
16:35
that you can do in all other aspects of your life.
388
980000
4000
運用到生活各方面。
16:39
You can walk a mile
389
984000
2000
你能走得更遠。
16:41
when it comes to understanding
390
986000
2000
如果你開始理解
16:43
why that person's driving 40 miles per hour
391
988000
3000
為甚麼那個人在超車道上
16:46
in the passing lane,
392
991000
3000
以四十邁的速度開車，
16:49
or your teenage son,
393
994000
2000
或者你十幾歲兒子，
16:51
or your neighbor who annoys you
394
996000
2000
或者你的鄰居
16:53
by cutting his lawn on Sunday mornings.
395
998000
2000
因為在星期天的早晨割草吵到了你。
16:55
Whatever it is, you can go so far.
396
1000000
3000
不管是甚麼，你可以走得那麼遠。
16:58
And this is what I tell my students:
397
1003000
2000
這就是我告訴學生的：
17:00
step outside of your tiny, little world.
398
1005000
4000
走出你的小世界，
17:04
Step inside of the tiny, little world
399
1009000
2000
走進別人的
17:06
of somebody else.
400
1011000
2000
小世界。
17:08
And then do it again and do it again and do it again.
401
1013000
4000
一次又一次地這麼做，
17:12
And suddenly all these tiny, little worlds,
402
1017000
2000
然後，所有這些小世界
17:14
they come together in this complex web.
403
1019000
2000
突然匯聚成一張複雜的網。
17:16
And they build a big, complex world.
404
1021000
3000
他們構成了巨大的複雜的世界。
17:19
And suddenly, without realizing it,
405
1024000
2000
突然間，不知不覺
17:21
you're seeing the world differently.
406
1026000
3000
你看世界的角度就變了，
17:24
Everything has changed.
407
1029000
2000
一切都變了。
17:26
Everything in your life has changed.
408
1031000
2000
你生命中的每件事都變了。
17:28
And that's, of course, what this is about.
409
1033000
3000
這，當然，就是我想實現的目的。
17:31
Attend to other lives,
410
1036000
3000
關心別人的生命，
17:34
other visions.
411
1039000
2000
別人的視角。
17:36
Listen to other people,
412
1041000
2000
傾聽別人，
17:38
enlighten ourselves.
413
1043000
3000
啓迪自己。
17:41
I'm not saying
414
1046000
2000
我不是說
17:43
that I support the terrorists in Iraq,
415
1048000
2000
我支持伊拉克的恐怖份子，
17:45
but as a sociologist,
416
1050000
2000
但是作為一個社會學家，
17:47
what I am saying
417
1052000
2000
我是說
17:49
is I understand.
418
1054000
3000
我理解了
17:53
And now perhaps -- perhaps -- you do too.
419
1058000
4000
現在，也許——也許——你也理解了。
17:57
Thank you.
420
1062000
2000
謝謝
17:59
(Applause)
421
1064000
2000
(鼓掌)
ABOUT THE SPEAKER
Sam Richards - SociologistSam Richards is a sociologist and teacher of the largest race relations course in the US. He argues that empathy is the core of sociology.
Why you should listen
Identifying himself as "an iconoclast from Toledo, Ohio," and identified by David Horowitz as one of the "101 Most Dangerous Academics in America," Sam Richards is one of the most provocative, and popular, sociology teachers in the country. Every year 725 students at Penn State University take his course on race and ethnic relations, where he attacks, with humor and courage, questions most would choose to avoid.
He is also the founder of the World in Conversation project. Every year, more than 7,000 students participate in its mission is to create a conscious dialogue around the politically incorrect thoughts of the participants, bringing them out in the open for inspection.
Sam Richards | Speaker | TED.com