TEDxMileHigh
Caitlin Quattromani and Lauran Arledge: How our friendship survives our opposing politics
凱特琳．卡楚曼尼與蘿倫．亞雷吉: 我們的友誼如何在相對立的政治立場中存活下來
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你的好朋友投票給不同的候選人，你仍然能和他做朋友嗎？凱特琳卡楚曼尼與蘿倫亞雷吉這兩位最好的朋友在政治立場上完全不同，對她們而言，2016 年美國總統大選很可能會造成敵意和不尊重。聽聽她們如何選用對話來取而代之，並學習她們所使用的一些簡單策略，來維持他們的兩黨構成之友誼。
Double-click the English transcript below to play the video.
00:12
Caitlin Quattromani: The election
of 2016 felt different.
of 2016 felt different.
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凱特琳卡楚曼尼：2016 年的
選舉感覺不太一樣。
選舉感覺不太一樣。
00:16
Political conversations
with our family and friends
with our family and friends
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我們和家人及朋友之間的政治對話
00:19
uncovered a level of polarization
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呈現出某種程度的兩極化對立，
00:21
that many of us had not
previously experienced.
previously experienced.
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這是我們許多人過去沒有經歷過的。
00:24
People who we always thought
were reasonable and intelligent
were reasonable and intelligent
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我們本來一直認為理性且有智慧的人
00:28
seemed like strangers.
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變得像陌生人一樣。
00:29
We said to ourselves,
"How could you think that?
"How could you think that?
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我們對自己說：「你怎麼能那樣想？
00:32
I thought you were smart."
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我本來以為你很聰明。」
00:34
Lauran Arledge: Caitlin and I met
in the summer of 2011,
in the summer of 2011,
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蘿倫亞雷吉：凱特琳和我
是在 2011 年暑假認識的，
是在 2011 年暑假認識的，
00:37
and we bonded around being working moms
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我們都是在職媽媽，且試圖讓
00:39
and trying to keep
our very energetic boys busy.
our very energetic boys busy.
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精力過盛的兒子有事可以忙，
因而成為好友。
因而成為好友。
00:42
And we soon found out
we had almost everything in common.
we had almost everything in common.
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我們很快就發現，
我們的共通點非常多。
我們的共通點非常多。
00:46
From our love of Colorado
to our love of sushi,
to our love of sushi,
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從我們對科羅拉多的愛，
到我們對壽司的愛，
到我們對壽司的愛，
00:49
there wasn't much we didn't agree on.
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我們幾乎沒有任何歧見。
00:52
We also discovered that we share
a deep love of this country
a deep love of this country
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我們也發現，我們都
對這個國家有深刻的愛，
對這個國家有深刻的愛，
00:55
and feel a responsibility
to be politically active.
to be politically active.
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且覺得有責任要參與政治活動。
00:59
But no one's perfect --
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但沒有人是完美的──
01:00
(Laughter)
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（笑聲）
01:02
and I soon found out
two disappointing things about Caitlin.
two disappointing things about Caitlin.
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我很快就發現，
凱特琳有兩點讓我很失望。
凱特琳有兩點讓我很失望。
01:06
First, she hates camping.
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第一，她討厭露營。
01:08
CQ: I think camping is the worst.
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凱特琳：我認為露營是最糟糕的。
01:10
LA: So there would not be
any joint camping trips in our future.
any joint camping trips in our future.
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蘿倫：所以我們未來
絕對不可能來趟露營之旅。
絕對不可能來趟露營之旅。
01:15
The second thing is that
she's politically active all right --
she's politically active all right --
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第二，她的確積極參與政治活動，
01:18
as a conservative.
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但她是保守派。
01:20
CQ: I may hate camping,
but I love politics.
but I love politics.
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凱特琳：我也許
討厭露營，但我愛政治。
討厭露營，但我愛政治。
01:23
I listen to conservative talk radio
just about every day,
just about every day,
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我幾乎每天都會聽保守派的
談話性廣播節目，
談話性廣播節目，
01:27
and I've volunteered for a few different
conservative political campaigns.
conservative political campaigns.
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我曾在幾個不同的保守派
政治競選活動當志工。
政治競選活動當志工。
01:31
LA: And I'd say I'm a little to the left,
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蘿倫：我會說我有點偏左派，
01:33
like all the way to the left.
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一路到最左邊的左派。
01:35
(Laughter)
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（笑聲）
01:36
I've always been interested in politics.
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我一向對政治很感興趣。
01:38
I was a political science major,
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我主修政治學，
01:40
and I worked as a community organizer
and on a congressional campaign.
and on a congressional campaign.
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我當過社區組織者，
也在國會競選活動做過事。
也在國會競選活動做過事。
01:44
CQ: So as Lauran and I
were getting to know each other,
were getting to know each other,
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凱特琳：蘿倫與我開始認識彼此時，
正好是 2012 總統大選期間，
01:46
it was right in the middle
of that 2012 presidential campaign,
of that 2012 presidential campaign,
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01:49
and most of our early
political conversations
political conversations
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我們之前和政治有關的對話，
01:52
were really just based
in jokes and pranks.
in jokes and pranks.
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大多是玩笑和惡作劇。
01:55
So as an example, I would change
Lauran's computer screen saver
Lauran's computer screen saver
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比如，我會把蘿倫的
電腦螢幕保護程式
電腦螢幕保護程式
01:58
to a picture of Mitt Romney,
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改成米特羅姆尼的照片，
01:59
or she would put an Obama
campaign magnet on the back of my car.
campaign magnet on the back of my car.
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或者她會把歐巴馬的
競選磁鐵貼在我的車後面。
競選磁鐵貼在我的車後面。
02:03
(Laughter)
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（笑聲）
02:04
LA: Car, not minivan.
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蘿倫：是汽車，不是休旅車。
02:06
CQ: But over time,
those conversations grew more serious
those conversations grew more serious
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凱特琳：但隨時間過去，
那些對話開始變認真了，
那些對話開始變認真了，
02:09
and really became
a core of our friendship.
a core of our friendship.
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真正成為了我們友誼的核心。
02:11
And somewhere along the line,
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在某個時點，
02:13
we decided we didn't want to have
any topic be off limits for discussion,
any topic be off limits for discussion,
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我們決定，我們不希望
有任何主題是禁止討論的，
有任何主題是禁止討論的，
02:17
even if those topics pushed us way
outside of our friendship comfort zone.
outside of our friendship comfort zone.
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即便是會把我們
遠遠推出舒適圈的主題。
遠遠推出舒適圈的主題。
02:21
LA: And so to most of us,
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蘿倫：對大多數人而言，
02:23
political conversations
are a zero-sum game.
are a zero-sum game.
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政治對談是場零和遊戲。
02:25
There's a winner and there's a loser.
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有位贏家，有位輸家。
02:27
We go for the attack and we spot
a weakness in someone's argument.
a weakness in someone's argument.
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我們要去攻擊，我們要找出
某人論點中的弱點。
某人論點中的弱點。
02:31
And here's the important part:
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重要的是這個部份：
02:32
we tend to take every comment
or opinion that's expressed
or opinion that's expressed
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我們會把表述出來的每個評論或意見
02:35
as a personal affront
to our own values and beliefs.
to our own values and beliefs.
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當作是針對我們
價值觀及信念的冒犯。
價值觀及信念的冒犯。
02:39
But what if changed the way
we think about these conversations?
we think about these conversations?
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但如果去改變我們
對這些談話的看法呢？
對這些談話的看法呢？
02:43
What if, in these heated moments,
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如果在這些激動的時刻，
02:45
we chose dialogue over debate?
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我們選擇對話，而非爭論？
02:48
When we engage in dialogue,
we flip the script.
we flip the script.
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當我們進行對話時，
我們會快速翻過劇本。
我們會快速翻過劇本。
02:52
We replace our ego and our desire to win
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我們會把想要贏的自我和慾望
02:55
with curiosity, empathy
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換成好奇心、同理心、
02:57
and a desire to learn.
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以及學習的慾望。
02:58
Instead of coming
from a place of judgment,
from a place of judgment,
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我們不是從評斷的角度出發，
03:00
we are genuinely interested
in the other person's experiences,
in the other person's experiences,
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而是真心對於對方的經歷、價值觀、
03:04
their values and their concerns.
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關心的事感到興趣。
03:07
CQ: You make it sound so simple, Lauran.
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凱特琳：你把它說得很簡單，蘿倫。
03:09
But getting to that place
of true dialogue is hard,
of true dialogue is hard,
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但要做到真正對話是很難的，
03:12
especially when we're talking
about politics.
about politics.
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特別是在談政治的時候。
03:15
It is so easy to get emotionally fired up
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對於我們很有熱情的議題，
03:17
about issues that we're passionate about,
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情緒很容易就會被挑起來，
03:19
and we can let our ego
get in the way of truly hearing
get in the way of truly hearing
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我們的自我很可能會阻礙我們真正去
03:22
the other person's perspective.
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傾聽另一個人的觀點。
03:24
And in this crazy political climate
we're in right now,
we're in right now,
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在我們現在所處的
這種瘋狂政治氣候中，
這種瘋狂政治氣候中，
03:27
unfortunately, we're seeing
an extreme result
an extreme result
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不幸的是，我們看到那些激動的
03:29
of those heated political conversations,
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政治對話產生很極端的結果，
03:32
to the point where people are willing
to walk away from their relationships.
to walk away from their relationships.
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極端到人們願意為此
斷絕彼此的關係。
斷絕彼此的關係。
03:36
In fact, Rasmussen released
a poll earlier this year
a poll earlier this year
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事實上，今年早些時候，
拉斯穆森公佈了一項民調，
拉斯穆森公佈了一項民調，
03:39
that said 40 percent of people
reported that the 2016 election
reported that the 2016 election
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指出 40% 的人認為 2016 年選舉
03:44
negatively impacted
a personal relationship,
a personal relationship,
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對他們的個人關係產生負面影響，
03:47
and the Journal of Cognitive
Neuroscience tells us
Neuroscience tells us
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而認知神經科學期刊告訴我們，
03:49
that people tend to feel
their way to their beliefs
their way to their beliefs
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對於信念，人們傾向是用感覺的，
03:52
rather than using reasoning,
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而不是用推論思考，
03:54
and that when reason and emotion collide,
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而當理性與感性相撞時，
03:57
it's emotion that invariably wins.
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永遠是感性勝出。
03:59
So no wonder it's hard
to talk about these issues.
to talk about these issues.
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難怪談論這些議題是很困難的。
04:02
LA: And look, we're just
two regular friends
two regular friends
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蘿倫：而且，我們只是
兩個普通的朋友，
兩個普通的朋友，
04:04
who happen to think very differently
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對政治以及政府在我們生活中
04:06
about politics and the role
that government should play in our lives.
that government should play in our lives.
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該扮演的角色，
剛好有非常不同的想法。
剛好有非常不同的想法。
04:10
And I know we were all taught
not to talk about politics
not to talk about politics
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我知道我們都被教導不要去談政治，
04:13
because it's not polite,
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因為那樣不禮貌，
04:14
but we need to be able to talk about it,
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但我們必須要能夠談政治，
04:16
because it's important to us
and it's a part of who we are.
and it's a part of who we are.
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因為政治對我們很重要，
它是我們本質的一部份。
它是我們本質的一部份。
04:19
CQ: We have chosen
to avoid political debate
to avoid political debate
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凱特琳：我們選擇避免政治爭辯，
04:22
and instead engage in dialogue
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取而代之，我們進行對話，
04:24
in order to maintain what we fondly call
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以維持我們所謂的
04:27
our bipartisan friendship.
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兩黨構成的友誼。
04:29
(Laughter)
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（笑聲）
04:30
LA: And this election
and all of the craziness that has followed
and all of the craziness that has followed
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蘿倫：這場選舉，以及
隨後而來的各種瘋狂，
隨後而來的各種瘋狂，
04:33
has given us several opportunities
to practice this skill.
to practice this skill.
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給了我們一些機會來練習這項技巧。
04:36
(Laughter)
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（笑聲）
04:38
Let's start with January
and the Women's March.
and the Women's March.
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我們從一月的女權大遊行開始。
04:40
At this point, you can probably guess
which one of us participated.
which one of us participated.
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此時，你們應該已經能猜出
我們兩個是誰去參與了遊行。
我們兩個是誰去參與了遊行。
04:44
(Laughter)
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（笑聲）
04:45
CQ: Oh, the Women's March.
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凱特琳：喔，女權大遊行。
04:47
I was annoyed and irritated
that entire day,
that entire day,
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那一整天，我都覺得很心煩，
04:50
really because of two things.
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原因有兩個。
04:52
Number one, the name "Women's March."
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第一，「女權大遊行」這個名稱。
04:55
As a conservative woman,
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身為保守派女性，
04:56
the march's platform of issues
didn't represent me,
didn't represent me,
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這場遊行的議題平台並不代表我，
04:59
and that's OK,
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那沒關係，
05:00
but hearing it talked about
as this demonstration of sisterhood
as this demonstration of sisterhood
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但聽它談論要展現姐妹情誼、
05:04
and solidarity for all women
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所有女性要團結，
05:05
didn't ring true for me.
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在我聽來並沒有道理。
05:07
The other piece
was the timing of the event,
was the timing of the event,
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另一個理由是遊行的時間點，
05:09
the fact that it was the day
after the presidential inauguration.
after the presidential inauguration.
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它剛好是總統就職典禮的隔天。
05:12
It felt like we weren't even
giving the new administration
giving the new administration
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感覺就像我們甚至不讓新政府
05:15
to actually do anything, good or bad,
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有機會做什麼，不論做得好壞，
05:17
before people felt the need
to demonstrate against it.
to demonstrate against it.
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人們就已經覺得需要展現出反對了。
05:20
LA: And under normal circumstances,
I would agree with Caitlin.
I would agree with Caitlin.
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蘿倫：在正常情況下，
我會同意凱特琳的說法。
我會同意凱特琳的說法。
05:23
I think an administration
does deserve the benefit of the doubt.
does deserve the benefit of the doubt.
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我認為政府的確應該要
先被認定是無辜的才對。
先被認定是無辜的才對。
05:26
But in this case, I was marching
to show my concern
to show my concern
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但在這個情況下，
我遊行是要表示我的擔心，
我遊行是要表示我的擔心，
05:30
that a man with such a poor track record
with women and other groups
with women and other groups
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一個過去對女性及其他群體
都有不良記錄的人
都有不良記錄的人
05:33
had been elected as president.
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竟被選為總統。
05:35
I had to be part of the collective voice
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我必須要成為集體聲音的一部份，
05:37
that wanted to send a clear message
to the new president
to the new president
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想要給予新總統一個清楚的訊息，
05:40
that we did not accept or condone
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告訴他，我們不能接受或容忍
05:43
his behavior or rhetoric
during the election.
during the election.
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他在選舉過程的行為或言辭。
05:46
CQ: So I'm already feeling
kind of aggravated,
kind of aggravated,
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凱特琳：所以，我已經有點被惹火，
05:48
and then I see this Facebook from Lauran
pop up in my social media feed.
pop up in my social media feed.
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接著，我看到蘿倫的這則臉書貼文
在我的動態時報跳出來。
在我的動態時報跳出來。
05:53
(Laughter)
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1007
（笑聲）
05:54
Seeing Lauran's sons at the march
and holding signs
and holding signs
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看到蘿倫的兒子們
出現在遊行中，拿著標語，
出現在遊行中，拿著標語，
05:57
took it to a new level for me,
and not in a good way,
and not in a good way,
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把我帶到了一個新的境界，
且不是好的境界，
且不是好的境界，
06:00
because I know these boys,
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因為我認識那些男孩，
06:02
I love these boys,
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我愛那些男孩，
06:03
and I didn't feel they were old enough
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我不覺得他們的年紀夠大到
06:05
to understand what the march stood for.
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能了解遊行的意義。
06:07
I didn't understand
why Lauran would choose
why Lauran would choose
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我不了解蘿倫為什麼會選擇
06:09
to have them participate in that way,
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讓他們用那種方式參與，
06:11
and I assumed it wasn't a choice
that the boys made for themselves.
that the boys made for themselves.
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我假設那些男孩
並不是自己做決定的。
並不是自己做決定的。
06:14
But I also know Lauran.
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但，我也了解蘿倫。
06:17
You're an incredible mom
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你是個了不起的媽媽，
06:18
who would never exploit
your boys in any way,
your boys in any way,
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永遠不會以任何方式利用你的孩子，
06:21
so I had to stop and check myself.
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所以我得停下來，克制自己。
06:22
I had a decision to make.
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我得要做一個決定。
06:24
I could take the easy way out
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我可以選簡單的路，
06:26
and just choose
not to say anything to her,
not to say anything to her,
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什麼都不要對她說，
06:28
and instead just kind of simmer
in my frustration,
in my frustration,
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把挫折感都往肚裡吞，
06:32
or I could ask her to learn more
about her motivations.
about her motivations.
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或是我可以問她，
以更了解她的動機。
以更了解她的動機。
06:35
LA: And I shared with Caitlin
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蘿倫：而我和凱特琳分享，
06:36
that we actually started
talking about the March
talking about the March
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告訴她，我們在參與之前的幾週，
06:39
weeks before we participated.
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就開始談論那場遊行。
06:40
And my boys were curious
as to why the event was being organized,
as to why the event was being organized,
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我的兒子們很好奇
為什麼要辦這個活動，
為什麼要辦這個活動，
06:43
and this led to some
very interesting family conversations.
very interesting family conversations.
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這帶來了一些很有意思的家庭對談。
06:47
We talked about how in this country,
we have the right and the privilege
we have the right and the privilege
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我們談到在這個國家中
我們能有權利和特權，
我們能有權利和特權，
06:51
to demonstrate against
something we don't agree with,
something we don't agree with,
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來針對我們不認同的事物示威抗議，
06:53
and my husband shared with them
why he thought it was so important
why he thought it was so important
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我先生與他們分享了
他為什麼認為男性參與
他為什麼認為男性參與
06:57
that men joined the Women's March.
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女權大遊行很重要的原因。
06:58
But the most significant reason
we marched as a family
we marched as a family
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但我們會全家一起去遊行，
最重要的理由是，
最重要的理由是，
07:01
is that it was a way for us to honor
my parents' legacy.
my parents' legacy.
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這是我們榮耀
我父母的精神遺產的方式。
我父母的精神遺產的方式。
07:05
They spent their careers
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他們投入整個職涯，
07:06
working to defend the rights
of some of our most vulnerable citizens,
of some of our most vulnerable citizens,
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來為一些最脆弱的公民捍衛權利，
07:10
and they passed these values
down to me and my brother,
down to me and my brother,
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他們將這些價值觀傳給我和我兄弟，
07:13
and we want to do the same with our sons.
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我們也想要再傳給我們的兒子。
07:15
CQ: After talking to Lauran,
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凱特琳：和蘿倫談過之後，
07:16
I really understood not only
why she felt it was so important to march,
why she felt it was so important to march,
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我真的能了解為什麼
她覺得遊行那麼重要，
她覺得遊行那麼重要，
07:20
but why she had her boys with her.
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以及為什麼她會帶兒子同行。
07:22
And frankly, my assumptions were wrong.
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坦白說，我的假設是錯的。
07:24
It was the boys who wanted to march
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在與家人談過這些議題後，
07:26
after they talked about
the issues as a family.
the issues as a family.
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男孩們自己主動想要去遊行的。
07:29
But what's most important
about this example
about this example
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但這個例子最重要的一點是，
07:31
is to think about the alternative.
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是要去想想其他的可能。
07:33
Had Lauran and I not talked about it,
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如果蘿倫和我沒有談這件事，
07:35
I would have been annoyed with her,
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我就會對她很不爽，
07:36
and it could have resulted
in an undercurrent of disrespect
in an undercurrent of disrespect
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可能會導致我們的友誼
產生不尊重的潛在情緒。
產生不尊重的潛在情緒。
07:39
in our friendship.
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07:40
But by asking Lauran questions,
it allowed us to use dialogue
it allowed us to use dialogue
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但藉由問蘿倫問題，
讓我們能使用對話，
讓我們能使用對話，
07:44
to get to a place of true understanding.
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來達成真正的了解。
07:46
Now, to be clear,
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讓我說清楚，
07:47
our conversation didn't really change
my mind about how I felt about the March,
my mind about how I felt about the March,
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我們的對談並沒有改變
我對於那場大遊行的看法，
我對於那場大遊行的看法，
07:51
but it absolutely changed my thinking
around why she brought her boys with her.
around why she brought her boys with her.
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但絕對改變了我對於
她為什麼帶兒子同行的想法。
她為什麼帶兒子同行的想法。
07:56
And for both of us,
that dialogue allowed us to understand
that dialogue allowed us to understand
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對我們兩個而言，
那對話讓我們可以了解
那對話讓我們可以了解
07:59
each other's perspective
about the Women's March
about the Women's March
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彼此對於女權大遊行的看法，
08:01
even though we disagreed.
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即使我們意見不相同。
08:03
LA: The second topic that challenged
our ability to engage in dialogue
our ability to engage in dialogue
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蘿倫：挑戰我們進行對話
之能力的第二個主題是
之能力的第二個主題是
08:06
was around my need to understand
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是我需要了解
08:08
how Caitlin could vote for Trump.
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凱特琳怎麼能投票給川普。
08:11
(Laughter)
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（笑聲）
08:17
Caitlin is a successful professional woman
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凱特琳是個成功的職業女性，
08:20
who is deeply caring and compassionate,
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她有深切的關懷與同理心，
08:23
and the Caitlin I know
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而我所認識的凱特琳
08:24
would never excuse any man
from talking about women
from talking about women
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絕對不會原諒任何男人像川普在
08:28
the way that Trump did
during the campaign.
during the campaign.
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競選期間那樣談論女人。
08:30
It was hard for me to reconcile
these two things in my mind.
these two things in my mind.
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對我來說，我很難在腦中
把這兩者放在一起。
把這兩者放在一起。
08:33
How could you overlook
the things that were said?
the things that were said?
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你怎麼能忽略他說的那些話？
08:36
CQ: So I'm guessing I may not be
the only one here that thought
the only one here that thought
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凱特琳：我猜，這裡
並不只有我一個人認為
並不只有我一個人認為
08:39
we didn't have the best choices
for the presidential election last year.
for the presidential election last year.
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去年總統大選我們
並沒有最好的選擇。
並沒有最好的選擇。
08:43
(Laughter)
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（笑聲）
08:44
The Republican candidate who I did support
didn't make it out of the primary,
didn't make it out of the primary,
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我本來支持的共和黨候選人
在初選就被淘汰了，
在初選就被淘汰了，
08:48
so when it came time to vote,
I had a decision to make.
I had a decision to make.
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到了要投票的時候，
我得要做一個決定。
我得要做一個決定。
08:51
And you're right,
there were some terrible things
there were some terrible things
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你說的沒錯，在川普競選期間的確
08:54
that came out during the Trump campaign,
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說出了一些很糟糕的話，
08:56
so much so that I almost decided
to just abstain
to just abstain
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我幾乎就打算要投廢票
08:58
rather than voting for president,
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而不是投給總統了，
09:00
something I had never
even considered doing before.
even considered doing before.
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我以前從來沒這樣考量過。
09:03
But ultimately,
I did vote for Donald Trump,
I did vote for Donald Trump,
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但最終，我確實投給了川普，
09:05
and for me it was really a vote
for party over person,
for party over person,
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對我而言，那張票是
投給黨而不是投給人的，
投給黨而不是投給人的，
09:08
especially recognizing
how important that presidential pick is
how important that presidential pick is
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特別是我知道總統的選擇對於
09:12
on influencing our judicial branch.
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我們的司法有多大的影響。
09:15
But I shared with Lauran
it was a decision I really wrestled with,
it was a decision I really wrestled with,
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但我與蘿倫分享說，
這個決定也讓我很掙扎，
這個決定也讓我很掙扎，
09:18
and not one that I made lightly.
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我並不是輕易就決定的。
09:20
LA: And so after our conversation,
I was struck by a few things.
I was struck by a few things.
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蘿倫：在我們談過之後，
我被點醒了幾件事。
我被點醒了幾件事。
09:24
First, I had fallen victim
to my own confirmation bias.
to my own confirmation bias.
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第一，我成了我自己
確認偏誤的受害者。
確認偏誤的受害者。
09:28
Because of my strong feelings about Trump,
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因為我對川普的強烈感受，
09:30
I had given all Trump voters
the same attributes,
the same attributes,
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讓我給予所有投給
川普的人同樣的特質，
川普的人同樣的特質，
09:33
and none of them forgiving.
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不原諒他們任何一個人。
09:34
(Laughter)
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（笑聲）
09:35
But knowing Caitlin,
I started to ask questions.
I started to ask questions.
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但因為了解凱特琳，
所以我開始問問題，
所以我開始問問題，
09:40
What were Trump voters
really concerned about?
really concerned about?
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投給川普的人關心的到底是什麼？
09:42
Under all the divisive language,
what was really going on?
what was really going on?
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在所有這些分化的言辭底下
到底是發生了什麼事？
到底是發生了什麼事？
09:46
What could we learn
about ourselves and our country
about ourselves and our country
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我們能從這個不太像真的事件中，
09:48
from this unlikely event?
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學到些關於自己及國家的什麼？
09:51
I also learned that we shared
a deep disappointment in this election,
a deep disappointment in this election,
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我也發現，我們都
對這次選舉很失望，
對這次選舉很失望，
09:55
and that we have growing concerns
about our two-party political system.
about our two-party political system.
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我們也都越來越擔心
我們的兩黨政治體系。
我們的兩黨政治體系。
09:59
But the most important thing
about this conversation
about this conversation
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但關於這次對談，最重要的就是：
10:02
is that it happened at all.
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我們對談了。
10:05
Without an open and honest dialogue
between the two of us,
between the two of us,
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如果我們兩人之間沒有
開放且誠實的對話，
開放且誠實的對話，
10:08
this election would have been
the elephant in the room
the elephant in the room
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接下來的四年，這次選舉
就會像是房間中的大象，
就會像是房間中的大象，
10:11
for the next four years, pun intended.
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我故意這麼說的。
10:13
(Laughter)
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（笑聲）
（指棘手問題及共和黨的黨徽為大象）
（指棘手問題及共和黨的黨徽為大象）
10:18
CQ: So, look --
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凱特琳：所以──
10:19
(Applause)
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（掌聲）
10:21
So, look -- we know it takes work
to get past the difficult,
to get past the difficult,
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所以──我們知道
要花心力才能克服困難、
要花心力才能克服困難、
10:25
frustrating and sometimes emotional parts
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挫折、有時還包括討論時的情緒，
10:27
of having discussions about issues
like the Women's March
like the Women's March
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如在討論像女權大遊行、
或為何你朋友要
或為何你朋友要
投票給你無法忍受的候選人
等等議題時的情緒。
等等議題時的情緒。
10:30
or why your friend may have voted
for a candidate that you can't stand.
for a candidate that you can't stand.
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4134
10:35
But we need to have these conversations.
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但我們需要進行這些對談。
10:37
Our ability to move past political debate
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我們能從政治辯論
10:40
into true dialogue
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改變成真正對話的這項能力，
10:41
is a critical skill we should all
be focused on right now,
be focused on right now,
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3002
是我們目前應該重視的關鍵技能，
10:44
especially with the people
that we care about the most.
that we care about the most.
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特別是對於我們最珍視的人。
10:47
LA: And it's not just as adults
that we need to bottle this behavior.
that we need to bottle this behavior.
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蘿倫：不只是我們
身為成人需要這麼做。
身為成人需要這麼做。
10:51
It's critical that we do it
for our children as well.
for our children as well.
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我們為孩子而做也是很重要的。
10:54
My sons were inundated with this election.
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我的兒子們快被
這選舉的資訊淹沒了。
這選舉的資訊淹沒了。
10:56
We were listening
to the news in the morning,
to the news in the morning,
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2144
我們早上會聽新聞，
10:59
and they were having conversations
with their friends at school.
with their friends at school.
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他們在學校會和朋友談論。
11:02
I was concerned that they were picking up
so much polarizing misinformation,
so much polarizing misinformation,
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我會擔心他們接收到
這麼兩極化的錯誤資訊，
這麼兩極化的錯誤資訊，
11:06
and they were growing really fearful
of a Trump presidency.
of a Trump presidency.
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他們開始對川普當總統感到很害怕。
11:10
Then one day, after the election,
I was taking my sons to school,
I was taking my sons to school,
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4501
選後的某一天，
我帶我的兒子們上學，
我帶我的兒子們上學，
11:15
and my younger son,
completely out of the blue,
completely out of the blue,
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2469
我的小兒子突然間說：
11:17
said, "Mom, we don't know anybody
who voted for Trump, right?"
who voted for Trump, right?"
248
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4904
「媽，我們不認識任何
投票給川普的人，對吧？」
投票給川普的人，對吧？」
11:22
(Laughter)
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2969
（笑聲）
11:25
And I paused and I took a deep breath.
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3936
我停了一下，深呼吸。
11:30
"Yes, we do."
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「我們有認識。」
11:31
(Laughter)
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1000
（笑聲）
11:32
"The Quattromanis."
253
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1150
「卡楚曼尼一家人。」
11:33
And his response was so great.
254
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2069
他的反應很棒。
11:36
He kind of got this confused
look on his face, and he said ...
look on his face, and he said ...
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3190
他臉上有點困惑的神情，他說：
11:39
"But we love them."
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1151
「但我們愛他們。」
11:40
(Laughter)
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（笑聲）
11:43
And I answered, "Yes, we do."
258
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我回答：「是的，我們愛他們。」
11:45
(Laughter)
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（笑聲）
11:46
And then he said,
"Why would they vote for him?"
"Why would they vote for him?"
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接著他說：「他們為何投給他？」
11:50
And I remember stopping and thinking
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我記得我停下來，心想，
11:52
that it was really important
how I answered this question.
how I answered this question.
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我如何回答這個問題是非常重要的。
11:55
Somehow, I had to honor
our own family values
our own family values
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我得以某種方式榮耀
我們的家庭價值觀，
我們的家庭價值觀，
11:58
and show respect for our friends.
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同時還要能尊重我們的朋友。
12:00
So I finally said,
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於是，我終於說：
12:02
"They think that's the right direction
for this country."
for this country."
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「他們認為這是國家該走的方向。」
12:05
And before I had even gotten
the whole sentence out,
the whole sentence out,
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我還沒能把整個句子說完，
12:07
he had moved on to the soccer game
he was going to play at recess.
he was going to play at recess.
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他就轉話題到每次下課時
踢的足球比賽了。
踢的足球比賽了。
12:11
CQ: So life with boys.
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凱特琳：男孩的生活啊。
12:12
(Laughter)
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（笑聲）
12:13
So what Lauran and I have discovered
through our bipartisan friendship
through our bipartisan friendship
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透過我們的兩黨構成之友誼，
蘿倫和我所發現的
蘿倫和我所發現的
12:16
is the possibility that lives in dialogue.
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是對話中蘊涵的可能性。
12:19
We have chosen to be genuinely curious
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我們選擇要對彼此的想法
12:22
about each other's ideas and perspectives
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和觀念展現真誠的好奇，
12:24
and to be willing to listen to one another
even when we disagree.
even when we disagree.
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即使在我們意見分歧時，
也要願意傾聽彼此。
也要願意傾聽彼此。
12:28
And by putting aside our ego
and our preconceived ideas,
and our preconceived ideas,
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把我們的自我以及
先入為主的想法放在一邊，
先入為主的想法放在一邊，
12:31
we've opened ourselves up
to limitless learning.
to limitless learning.
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我們得以打開自己，
讓學習不再受限。
讓學習不再受限。
12:34
And perhaps most importantly
for our relationship,
for our relationship,
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也許對我們的關係而言最重要的是，
12:37
we have made the commitment to each other
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我們對彼此做出了承諾，
12:39
that our friendship is way more important
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我們承諾，比起我們誰對誰錯、
12:42
than either of us being right
or winning a conversation about politics.
or winning a conversation about politics.
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或是在政治對談中爭贏對方，
我們的友誼要更重要許多。
我們的友誼要更重要許多。
12:47
So today, we're asking you
to have a conversation.
to have a conversation.
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所以，今天，我們想
請各位去進行對談。
請各位去進行對談。
12:50
Talk to someone outside
of your political party
of your political party
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與和你支持不同政黨的人談談，
12:52
who might challenge your thinking.
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他可能會挑戰你的思想。
12:54
Make an effort to engage with someone
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花點心力，去和你通常會
12:56
with whom you might typically
avoid a political conversation.
avoid a political conversation.
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避免談政治的對象來做互動。
12:59
But remember, the goal isn't to win,
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但切記，目標不是要爭贏，
13:02
the goal is to listen and to understand
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目標是要傾聽和了解，
13:04
and to be open to learning something new.
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是要開放去學習新事物。
13:07
LA: So let's go back to election night.
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蘿倫：咱們回到選舉夜。
13:10
As the polls were closing
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開票即將告一段落，
13:11
and it became clear that Trump
was going to be our new president,
was going to be our new president,
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顯然川普會成為我們的新總統，
13:14
I was devastated.
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我極為震驚。
13:16
I was sad, I was confused,
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我很傷心，很困惑，
13:19
and I'll be honest -- I was angry.
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老實說，我也很生氣。
13:22
And then just before midnight,
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就在午夜之前，
13:23
I received this text message from Caitlin.
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我收到了凱特琳的文字訊息。
13:26
[I know this is a hard night for you guys.
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〔我知道這對你們來說
是很艱苦的夜晚。
是很艱苦的夜晚。
13:29
We are thinking of you. Love you.]
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我們一直在想著你們。愛你們。〕
13:32
And where there so easy could have been
weeks or months of awkwardness
weeks or months of awkwardness
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本來很容易就可能會
產生數週或數月的尷尬，
產生數週或數月的尷尬，
13:36
and unspoken hostility, there was this --
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不說出來的敵意，
但我就收到這訊息──
但我就收到這訊息──
13:40
an offering of empathy
rooted in friendship.
rooted in friendship.
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她提供了以友誼為基礎的同理心。
13:43
And I knew, in that moment,
that we would make it through this.
that we would make it through this.
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那一刻我就知道，
我們會渡過這難關。
我們會渡過這難關。
13:47
CQ: So we must find a way
to engage in meaningful conversations
to engage in meaningful conversations
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凱特琳：我們必須要找到方法
來進行更有意義的對談，
來進行更有意義的對談，
13:51
that are going to move us
forward as a nation,
forward as a nation,
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讓我們能以一個國家的
身份一同前行，
身份一同前行，
13:53
and we can no longer wait
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我們不能再等待，
13:55
for our elected officials
to elevate our national discourse.
to elevate our national discourse.
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不能再等我們選出的官員
來提升我們國家級的對話。
來提升我們國家級的對話。
13:59
LA: The challenges ahead
are going to require all of us
are going to require all of us
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蘿倫：在前頭的挑戰
會需要我們所有人一起參與，
會需要我們所有人一起參與，
14:02
to participate in a deeper
and more meaningful way ...
and more meaningful way ...
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以更深刻、更有意義的方式，
14:05
and it starts with each one of us
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從我們每一個人開始做起，
14:08
building connection through dialogue --
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透過對話來建立連結……
14:10
in our relationships, our communities
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在我們的關係中、社區中，
以一個國家的身份
以一個國家的身份
14:14
and as a country.
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來建立連結。
14:16
Thank you.
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謝謝。
14:17
(Applause)
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（掌聲）
ABOUT THE SPEAKERS
Caitlin Quattromani - Marketing leaderWhy you should listen
Caitlin Quattromani is a Colorado native and mom to two elementary school-age boys. She graduated from the University of Denver with an international business degree and has been fortunate to travel the world as a marketing and product leader, including living abroad with her family in Luxembourg. Her professional experience includes working for Amazon and DISH, and she currently leads multicultural marketing for Comcast's West Division office in the Denver area. Quattromani is also a co-founder of Elevate Partners, focused on bringing the power of dialogue to individuals, teams and organizations. She regularly volunteers with Hire Heroes USA, helping active duty military, veterans and their families transition into civilian employment.
Caitlin Quattromani | Speaker | TED.com
Lauran Arledge - Talent development leader
Why you should listen
Lauran Arledge started her career as high school social studies teacher in Wilmington, North Carolina. Over the past 15 years, she has worked in public health violence prevention, community organizing, coaching and organizational development. She currently holds a leadership position in talent development for a Denver-based technology company. In November 2017 she will launch Bold Font Coaching and Consulting which aims to bridge the gap between our personal and professional lives by living from a place of choice, courage, and authenticity. She is also a co-founder of Elevate Partners, focused on bringing the power of dialogue to individuals, teams and organizations.
Lauran Arledge | Speaker | TED.com