TED Residency
Duarte Geraldino: What we're missing in the debate about immigration
杜瓦特吉拉爾迪諾: 我們的移民辯論忽略了什麼
Filmed:
Readability: 4.2
1,170,030 views
在 2008 年到 2016 年間，美國驅逐了超過三百萬人。被留下的人發生了什麼事？記者杜瓦特吉拉爾迪諾談論美國遞解移民出境後避而不談的事。聽他描述，為什麼當一名母親、一個在地事業的東主、或一個高中生離開後，所造成的漣漪會向外擴散，破壞了原本凝聚的社區關係，讓我們進一步了解強迫驅逐出境所帶來的廣泛影響。
Duarte Geraldino - Journalist
Duarte Geraldino is working on a multi-year project that chronicles the lives of citizens who lose people to deportation. Full bio
Duarte Geraldino is working on a multi-year project that chronicles the lives of citizens who lose people to deportation. Full bio
Double-click the English transcript below to play the video.
00:13
So, Ma was trying to explain
something to me
something to me
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有天我媽試著向我解釋關於外婆
00:15
about Grandma and when they grew up,
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以及她們成長時代的事，
00:17
but I couldn't pay attention to her
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但我無法專心聽她說，
00:19
because I was five years old,
and I was petrified.
and I was petrified.
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因為我才五歲，而我看傻了。
00:21
I had just seen The Green Lady.
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我剛剛看到綠夫人（自由女神）。
00:24
Now, about a week earlier,
I'd watched that movie "Godzilla,"
I'd watched that movie "Godzilla,"
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約在一週前我才剛看了哥吉拉電影，
00:27
the one about that huge lizard-like beast
storming a major city,
storming a major city,
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內容是一隻像蜥蜴的
巨獸猛攻大城市，
巨獸猛攻大城市，
00:31
and the thought of a green monster
coming for me was stuck in my mind.
coming for me was stuck in my mind.
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一隻綠色怪物前來抓我的想法
定格在我腦海裡。
定格在我腦海裡。
00:35
And yet there I was,
at the tip of Lower Manhattan with my mom,
at the tip of Lower Manhattan with my mom,
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當時我和媽媽在曼哈頓的下城區，
00:39
just staring at her:
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我直直盯著她看：
00:40
her horns,
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她頭上的角，
00:42
her muscles --
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她的肌肉──
00:43
all of it just frightened me.
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我被這一切給嚇壞了。
00:44
And I didn't know
whether she was a monster or a hero.
whether she was a monster or a hero.
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那時我不知道她是怪獸還是英雄。
00:49
So I decided to consult
the Google of the day --
the Google of the day --
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所以我決定問當時的谷歌大神──
00:52
"Ma! Ma!"
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「媽！媽！」
00:53
(Laughter)
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（笑聲）
00:55
My mother explained that The Green Lady
is actually the Statue of Liberty
is actually the Statue of Liberty
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我媽媽解釋說，
綠夫人其實是自由女神，
綠夫人其實是自由女神，
01:00
and that she was waving immigrants in.
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她在揮手，歡迎移民入境。
01:02
Now, the part of her explanation
that really messed with my young head
that really messed with my young head
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她的部份解釋混淆了我年幼的腦袋，
01:06
was the fact that, according to Ma,
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那部份就是，根據媽媽的說法，
01:09
long before us,
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遠在我們之前，
01:11
The Green Lady was actually brown,
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綠夫人其實是褐色的，
01:15
brown like me,
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像我一樣的褐色。
01:16
and that she changed
colors over the years,
colors over the years,
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多年來她改變了顏色，
01:19
much like America.
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就像美國一樣。
01:21
Now, the part that really
is intriguing about this
is intriguing about this
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這說法最發人深省的部份是：
01:26
is that when she changed colors,
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她變了顏色讓我想到我自己。
01:28
she made me think about myself.
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01:30
It all made sense to me,
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那對我來說是合理的，
01:31
because as a first-generation American,
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因為身為第一代的美國人，
01:33
I was surrounded by immigrants.
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我身邊都是移民朋友。
01:35
In fact, within my immediate social circle
of the people who support me,
of the people who support me,
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事實上在我最接近的社交圈中，
支持我、豐富我人生的人，
01:39
who enrich my life,
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01:40
at least two are foreign-born.
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至少有兩人是在國外出生的。
01:43
My life as a US citizen is in many ways
shaped by newcomers,
shaped by newcomers,
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我的美國公民生活在許多方面
是由新移民所形塑出來的；
是由新移民所形塑出來的；
01:46
and chances are,
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很有可能你也一樣。
01:48
so is yours.
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01:49
There are more than 40 million
immigrants in the USA.
immigrants in the USA.
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美國有超過四千萬移民。
01:53
According to census data,
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根據人口普查資料，
01:54
a quarter of the nation's children
have at least one foreign-born parent.
have at least one foreign-born parent.
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四分之一的美國孩童
至少有一位家長出生於國外。
至少有一位家長出生於國外。
01:59
I know all these statistics
because I study global migration patterns.
because I study global migration patterns.
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會知道這些統計數據是因為
我研究全球移民人口的遷移模式。
我研究全球移民人口的遷移模式。
02:04
I'm a journalist,
and for the last few years,
and for the last few years,
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我是個記者，過去幾年間，
02:06
I've been documenting
the lives of US citizens
the lives of US citizens
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我一直在記錄親人被驅逐出境的
02:09
who've lost people to deportation.
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美國公民生活，
02:11
And the numbers are enormous.
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這類人的人數相當多。
02:14
From 2008 to 2016,
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從 2008 年到 2016 年，
02:16
more than three million people
were "ordered removed" --
were "ordered removed" --
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超過三百萬人被「強制移除」──
02:19
that's the technical term
for being deported.
for being deported.
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那個技術名詞的意思是驅逐出境。
02:23
There is an economic, a political,
a psychological and an emotional cost
a psychological and an emotional cost
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一旦這些人熟悉的生活圈遭到破壞，
他們的經濟圈、政治圈、心理狀況、
02:28
to those deportations --
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02:30
the moments when these circles are broken.
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及情緒上都得付出相當大的代價。
02:33
I once asked a US soldier,
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我曾經問過一名美國大兵：
02:35
"Why did you volunteer to fight this war?"
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「為什麼妳要自願從軍去打這場仗？」
02:37
And she told me,
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她告訴我：
02:39
"Because I'm proud to defend my country."
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「因為我很自豪能夠防衛我的國家。」
02:41
But I pressed to know --
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但我追問：
02:42
"Really, when you're on base,
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「說真的，當妳在基地裡，
02:44
and you hear bombs
exploding in the distance,
exploding in the distance,
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聽見遠處有炸彈爆炸，
02:46
and you see soldiers coming back
who are gravely injured,
who are gravely injured,
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看到身受重傷的士兵回來，
02:50
in that moment,
when you know you could be next,
when you know you could be next,
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在那一刻，當妳知道
下一個可能就是妳的時候，
下一個可能就是妳的時候，
02:54
what does 'my country' mean?"
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『我的國家』意義是什麼？」
02:56
She looked at me.
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她看著我：
02:58
"My country is my wife,
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「我的國家是我的妻子、
03:00
my family,
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我的家庭、
03:01
my friends, my soldiers."
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我的朋友、我的士兵。」
03:03
What she was telling me
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她在告訴我的是，
03:04
is that "my country" is a collection
of these strong relationships;
of these strong relationships;
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「我的國家」是所有
這些堅固關係的總體；
這些堅固關係的總體；
03:08
these social circles.
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這些社交圈的總體。
03:10
When the social circles are weakened,
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當社交圈弱化的時候，
03:12
a country itself is weaker.
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國家本身也會變弱。
03:15
We're missing a crucial aspect
in the debate about immigration policy.
in the debate about immigration policy.
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在辯論移民政策的時候，
我們都忽略了這個關鍵的面向。
我們都忽略了這個關鍵的面向。
03:18
Rather than focusing on individuals,
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別把焦點放在個人身上，
03:20
we should focus
on the circles around them,
on the circles around them,
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而應該把焦點放在他們周圍的圈子，
03:23
because these are the people
who are left behind:
who are left behind:
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因為這些是被留下來的人：
03:26
the voters, the taxpayers,
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這些選民、納稅人、
03:28
the ones who are suffering that loss.
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這些飽受痛苦的人。
03:31
And it's not just the children
of the deported
of the deported
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並不只有被驅逐者的孩子受到衝擊。
03:33
who are impacted.
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03:34
You have brothers and sisters
who are separated by borders.
who are separated by borders.
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還有兄弟姐妹被國界分開的。
03:37
You have classmates, teachers,
law enforcement officers,
law enforcement officers,
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還有同學、老師、執法人員、
03:40
technologists, scientists, doctors,
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技術專家、科學家和醫生，
03:42
who are all scrambling
to make sense of new realities
to make sense of new realities
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當社交圈被打破時，
他們都在倉促地在混亂中
試著為新的現實找出意義。
試著為新的現實找出意義。
03:46
when their social circles are broken.
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03:49
These are the real lives
behind all these statistics
behind all these statistics
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這些人都是統計數據背後的真實生命，
03:53
that dominate discussions
about immigration policy.
about immigration policy.
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這些數據主導著我們的移民政策。
03:56
But we don't often think about them.
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但我們通常不會想到他們。
03:58
And I'm trying to change that.
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我在試著改變這一點。
03:59
Here's just one of the real-life stories
that I've collected.
that I've collected.
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以下是我所收集到的
真實人生故事當中的一個。
真實人生故事當中的一個。
04:04
And it still haunts me.
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它仍然縈繞在我心頭。
04:06
I met Ramon and his son in 2016,
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我在 2016 年見到拉蒙和他的兒子，
04:10
the same year both of them
were being ordered out of the country.
were being ordered out of the country.
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同年，他們兩人都
被下令要離開美國。
被下令要離開美國。
04:14
Ramon was being deported to Latin America,
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拉蒙被驅逐到拉丁美洲，
04:18
while his son, who was a sergeant
in the US military,
in the US military,
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他的兒子是美國陸軍的中士，
04:21
was being deployed.
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他是被部署到國外。
04:24
Deported ...
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一個被驅逐…
04:26
deployed.
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一個被部署。
04:28
If you just look at Ramon's case,
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如果你只看拉蒙的個案，
04:31
it wouldn't be clear how deeply
connected to the country he is.
connected to the country he is.
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不太容易知道
他和這個國家的連結有多深。
他和這個國家的連結有多深。
04:35
But consider his son:
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但想想他的兒子：
04:37
a US citizen defending a country
that's banished his father.
that's banished his father.
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一個美國公民在保衛這個
驅逐他父親的國家。
驅逐他父親的國家。
04:41
The social circle is what's key here.
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這裡的關鍵就是社交圈。
04:43
Here's another example
that illustrates those critical bonds.
that illustrates those critical bonds.
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還有另一例子能描繪這關鍵的連結。
04:47
A group of citizens in Philadelphia
were concerned about their jobs,
were concerned about their jobs,
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有一群費城的公民很關心他們的工作，
04:50
because the legal owner
of the restaurant where they worked
of the restaurant where they worked
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他們為一間餐廳工作，
而餐廳的法定所有人
而餐廳的法定所有人
04:53
was an undocumented immigrant,
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是沒有合法文件的移民，
04:55
and immigration officials
had picked him up.
had picked him up.
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而移民局的官員已經來把他帶走了。
04:58
They rallied behind him.
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他們團結起來支持他。
04:59
An immigration lawyer argued
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移民律師的主張是，
05:01
he was too important
to the local community
to the local community
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他對當地社區而言太重要，
05:03
to be deported.
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因此不能被驅逐。
05:04
At the hearing, they even submitted
restaurant reviews --
restaurant reviews --
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在聽證會上，他們甚至
呈上了餐廳的評介──
呈上了餐廳的評介──
05:08
restaurant reviews!
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餐廳的評介！
05:10
In the end, a judge exercised
what's called "judicial discretion"
what's called "judicial discretion"
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最終，法官行使所謂的「司法裁量權」，
05:15
and allowed him to stay in the country,
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允許他留在美國，
05:17
but only because they considered
the social circle.
the social circle.
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只因為他們考量了社交圈。
05:21
There are 23 million
noncitizens in the USA,
noncitizens in the USA,
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美國有 2300 萬個非公民，
05:26
according to verifiable federal data.
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數字來源是已被驗證的
聯邦政府資料。
聯邦政府資料。
05:28
And that doesn't include the undocumented,
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這還沒包括沒有證明文件的人，
05:30
because numbers for that population
are at best complex estimates.
are at best complex estimates.
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因為政府的複雜數字
只是最保守的估計。
只是最保守的估計。
05:34
Let's just work with what we have.
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我們就用手邊有的資料來談。
05:36
That's 23 million social circles --
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2300 萬個社交圈──
05:39
about 100 million individuals
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大約一億人的生活會受到驅逐的衝擊。
05:42
whose lives could be impacted
by deportation.
by deportation.
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05:45
And the stress of it all is trickling down
through the population.
through the population.
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而它造成的壓力在這個
族群中慢慢向下移動著。
族群中慢慢向下移動著。
05:49
A 2017 poll by UCLA of LA County residents
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洛杉磯加大在 2017 年
針對洛杉磯郡居民進行一項民調，
05:52
found that 30 percent
of citizens in LA County
of citizens in LA County
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發現有 30% 的洛杉磯郡公民
05:56
are stressed about deportation,
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對驅逐感到有壓力，
05:59
not because they themselves
could be removed,
could be removed,
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並不是因為他們自己本身會被趕走，
06:02
but rather, because members
of their social circle were at risk.
of their social circle were at risk.
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而是因為他們的社交圈成員會有危險。
06:07
I am not suggesting that no one
should ever be deported;
should ever be deported;
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我並不是說沒有人應該被驅逐；
06:10
don't confuse me with that.
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別誤解我的意思。
06:12
But what I am saying is that we need
to look at the bigger picture.
to look at the bigger picture.
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我的意思是，
在看這類情況時要把眼光放得更遠。
06:17
If you are within the sound of my voice,
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如果你們聽到我在說甚麼，
06:20
I want you to close your eyes for a moment
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我想請你們閉上眼睛一會兒，
06:22
and examine your own social circle.
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檢視一下自己的社交圈。
06:25
Who are your foreign-born?
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圈中誰是在國外出生的？
06:28
What would it feel like
if the circle were broken?
if the circle were broken?
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如果這個圈子被打破，
會是什麼感覺？
會是什麼感覺？
06:32
Share your story.
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分享你的故事。
06:34
I'm building a global archive
of first-person accounts
of first-person accounts
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我在建立一個第一人稱
故事的全球資料庫，
故事的全球資料庫，
06:37
and linking them with mapping technology,
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並用地圖模式技術來連結這些故事，
06:39
so that we can see exactly
where these circles break,
where these circles break,
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讓我們能清楚看見
這些圈子是從何處破裂的，
這些圈子是從何處破裂的，
06:43
because this is not
just an American issue.
just an American issue.
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因為這不只是美國的議題。
06:46
There are a quarter-billion migrants
around the world;
around the world;
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全世界有 2 億 5 千萬移民；
06:50
people living, loving and learning
in countries where they were not born.
in countries where they were not born.
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他們在不是自己出生的國家
居住、付出愛，和學習。
居住、付出愛，和學習。
06:54
And in my career, in my life,
I've been one of them:
I've been one of them:
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在職涯、人生中，我也曾是其中一員：
06:56
in China, in Africa, in Europe.
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在中國、在非洲、在歐洲。
06:59
And each time I become
one of these foreigners --
one of these foreigners --
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每當我持著外國人的身分，
07:02
one of these strange-looking
guys in a new land --
guys in a new land --
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是新地方裡一個外表奇特的傢伙時，
07:06
I can't help but think back to that day
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就忍不住會回想起
07:08
when I was in Lower Manhattan with my mom
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我和媽媽在曼哈頓下城區的那一天，
07:10
all those decades ago,
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那是幾十年前了，
07:12
when I was scared,
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我很害怕，
07:14
and I had just spotted that green lady.
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剛剛見識了自由女神。
07:17
And I guess the question
that I keep on thinking about
that I keep on thinking about
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猜想在我見過她後一直在思考的問題：
07:21
when I see her
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07:23
and all the younger replicas of her
that are so obviously brown,
that are so obviously brown,
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雖然早期她的複製品都是褐色的，
07:27
and even the paintings
that showcase her in the beginning
that showcase her in the beginning
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甚至一些展示櫃裡的
圖畫作品也沒那麼綠，
圖畫作品也沒那麼綠，
07:30
as not quite green --
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07:33
when I look at all of that,
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當我看著這一切，
07:36
the question that my research
seeks to answer
seeks to answer
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我尋求解答的問題
07:39
becomes, to me, the same one
that confounded me all those years ago:
that confounded me all those years ago:
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變成是多年前讓我迷惘的同一問題：
07:44
Is she a monster
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她是怪獸？
07:47
or a hero?
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還是英雄？
07:49
Thank you.
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謝謝。
07:50
(Applause)
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（掌聲）
ABOUT THE SPEAKER
Duarte Geraldino - JournalistDuarte Geraldino is working on a multi-year project that chronicles the lives of citizens who lose people to deportation.
Why you should listen
Duarte Geraldino is an American journalist who travels the country documenting how culture is being changed and challenged by shifting demographics, business and technology. He leads a team of skilled journalists who produce multimedia reports and short films that have been distributed around the world through national and global news networks. He is currently working on a multi-year project that chronicles the lives of citizens who lose people to deportation called Hear Our Stories Now.
He is currently a special correspondent for PBS NewsHour. At the NewsHour, he reports and writes long-form television stories about business trends like the housing crisis that is gripping many American cities and developments in labor laws that some see as choking middle and low-income workers.
In 2017, one of Geraldino's short documentaries, Ordered Out, was screened in New York's Times Square as part of the Dominican Film Festival New York. It explores the impact of American identity and immigration and tells the story of a family being torn apart by US laws. In the same year, he was selected as a TED Resident. During his residency at TED's global headquarters, he started developing a digital journalism project to document the lives of US citizens who have lost people to deportation.
Previously, Geraldino worked as a National Correspondent for Al Jazeera America and as a local news reporter in New York, Ohio, Texas and Maryland.
Duarte Geraldino | Speaker | TED.com