TEDGlobal 2017
Ameenah Gurib-Fakim and Stephanie Busari: An interview with Mauritius's first female president
雅米娜古瑞柏法金: 訪談模里西斯但首位女總統
Filmed:
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雅米娜古瑞柏法金曾是學者、企業家，現在是模里西斯的總統，非洲第一位穆斯林女領導人。記者史帝芬妮布莎莉與她進行了這場範圍廣泛的談話。古瑞柏法金討論到她政治職涯的謙遜開端，她有信仰同時是科學家是什麼樣的情況，為什麼要重視非洲傳統知識，以及許多其他的議題。她說：「你需要相信你能做事，對自己有信心，立定一組目標，只管朝著目標前進。」
Ameenah Gurib-Fakim - President of Mauritius
Ameenah Gurib-Fakim is the president of the Republic of Mauritius. She has been a university professor and entrepreneur before her election as the first female Head of State of Mauritius. Full bioStephanie Busari - Journalist
Stephanie Busari is a journalist and editor at CNN International Digital. Full bio
Ameenah Gurib-Fakim is the president of the Republic of Mauritius. She has been a university professor and entrepreneur before her election as the first female Head of State of Mauritius. Full bioStephanie Busari - Journalist
Stephanie Busari is a journalist and editor at CNN International Digital. Full bio
Double-click the English transcript below to play the video.
00:12
Stephanie Busari: President Ameenah,
thank you for joining us.
thank you for joining us.
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史帝芬妮布莎莉（以下簡稱「史」）
：雅米娜總統，謝謝你加入我們。
：雅米娜總統，謝謝你加入我們。
00:15
Even as TED speakers go,
you're something of an overachiever.
you're something of an overachiever.
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就算以 TED 的講者來說，
你也算是個高成就者。
你也算是個高成就者。
00:21
Ameenah Gurib-Fakim: (Laughs)
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雅米娜古瑞柏法金
（以下簡稱「雅」）：（笑聲）
（以下簡稱「雅」）：（笑聲）
00:22
SB: You have a PhD in organic chemistry,
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史：你擁有有機化學的博士學位，
00:25
you were vice chancellor
of the University of Mauritius,
of the University of Mauritius,
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你是模里西斯大學的副校長，
00:28
a successful entrepreneur,
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一名成功的企業家，
00:29
you've won numerous awards
for your work in science
for your work in science
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你的科學研究得過多個獎項，
00:33
and you're the first Muslim
female head of state in Africa.
female head of state in Africa.
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且你是非洲國家中
第一位女性穆斯林領袖。
第一位女性穆斯林領袖。
00:37
(Applause)
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（掌聲）
00:42
And of course, you're no stranger
to the TEDGlobal stage;
to the TEDGlobal stage;
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當然你對 TEDGlobal
舞台並不陌生；
舞台並不陌生；
00:45
you gave a talk in 2014.
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2014 年你來演講過。
00:48
Did you have any political
ambitions at that time?
ambitions at that time?
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那時你有任何政治野心嗎？
00:51
How did you go from academic to president?
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你是怎麼從學者變成總統的？
00:55
AGF: OK, thanks, Stephanie.
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雅：好，謝謝，史帝芬妮。
00:56
First of all, I'd like to thank TED
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首先，我要謝謝 TED，
00:58
for having given me
the opportunity to be here today.
the opportunity to be here today.
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給我機會讓我今天能在這裡。
01:01
And I would also like to thank
the government of Tanzania
the government of Tanzania
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我也想謝謝坦尚尼亞的政府
01:04
and the president for the welcome.
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以及總統給我的歡迎。
01:08
And also, I'd like to thank
the contribution of our consul,
the contribution of our consul,
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我也要謝謝我們的領事
雷茲維先生的貢獻，
雷茲維先生的貢獻，
01:11
Mr. Rizvi, who's here,
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他也在現場，
01:13
has been very supportive
for all our stay here.
for all our stay here.
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他很支持我們在此停留。
01:16
Now, to answer your question,
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對於你剛才的問題，
01:19
did I have any ambitions in politics?
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我之前有任何對政治的野心嗎？
01:22
The straight answer is no.
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直接的答案是，沒有。
01:24
I did not choose the world of politics;
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我並沒有選擇政治世界；
01:26
the world of politics chose me.
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政治世界選擇了我。
01:28
So here I am.
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所以，我就在這裡了。
01:29
(Applause)
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（掌聲）
01:32
SB: So, was there ever
anything in your journey
anything in your journey
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史：那麼，在你的旅程中，
01:34
that ever made you think
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有沒有什麼會讓你想到
01:36
that one day you would become
president of your country?
president of your country?
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有一天你會成為你國家的總統？
01:39
Did you ever imagine that?
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你可曾想像過？
01:40
AGF: Absolutely not.
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雅：完全沒有。
01:41
I think the journey started
immediately after TED, actually.
immediately after TED, actually.
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我想，這段旅程其實是在
TED 之後就立即開始了。
TED 之後就立即開始了。
01:45
When I went back,
this journalist called me and said,
this journalist called me and said,
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我回去之後，有個記者
打電話給我，並說：
打電話給我，並說：
01:48
"You know, your name has been cited
for the president of the republic,"
for the president of the republic,"
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「你知道嗎，在談到共和國總統時，
你的名字被提及了。」
你的名字被提及了。」
01:52
I said, "Ma'am, you must be mistaken,
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我說：「女士，你一定搞錯了，
01:54
because I have no ambition whatsoever."
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因為我一點野心也沒有。」
01:56
She said, "No, it's serious.
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她說：「不，我是認真的。
01:57
Can you come and tell me this
in the form of a declaration?
in the form of a declaration?
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你能不能來一趟，
並用聲明的方式告訴我此事？
並用聲明的方式告訴我此事？
02:01
So, OK, you'll come?"
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所以，好，你會來吧？」
02:02
So, of course, as good journalists go,
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所以，當然，就好記者而言，
02:05
the next day I see my TED picture
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隔天，我看到我的 TED 照片，
02:07
and, with my name, Ameenah Gurib-Fakim,
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加上我的名字，雅米娜古瑞柏法金，
02:10
"For president?"
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「競選總統？」
02:11
A very small interrogation mark --
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那個問號非常小，
02:13
and people don't see
the interrogation mark,
the interrogation mark,
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而人們沒有看到那個問號，
02:15
they just see my name
and they see my picture.
and they see my picture.
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他們只看到我的名字、我的照片。
02:18
And that was a sounding board.
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以及這是一個宣傳招數。
02:20
And again, as you have just said,
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同樣的，如你剛說的，
02:23
it was a very interesting scenario
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那是個非常有趣的局面，
02:26
because it was a scenario
where they wanted to have somebody
where they wanted to have somebody
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因為在這個局面中，他們想要有個
02:30
who was credible,
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可信的人，
02:32
had this political neutrality
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有政治中立性，
02:34
and at the same time, was for a minority
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同時，又是為了弱勢，
02:37
because Islam is a minority
religion in Mauritius,
religion in Mauritius,
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因為伊斯蘭在模里西斯是弱勢宗教，
02:40
because in Mauritius,
we stratify people's origins
we stratify people's origins
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因為在模里西斯，
我們是用人們的宗教信仰
我們是用人們的宗教信仰
02:43
by virtue of their religious belief.
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來將他們的出身做分層。
02:46
And -- I was a woman.
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而且我是女性。
02:48
So this made it all very interesting.
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所以，這讓局面非常有趣。
02:50
So there we go, and this
whole campaign started,
whole campaign started,
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所以，就這樣，
整個競選活動就開始了，
整個競選活動就開始了，
02:54
and then people said, "Why not?"
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人們說：「為什麼不？」
02:55
Now, this is very important
to note, Stephanie,
to note, Stephanie,
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史帝芬妮，這點是很重要的，
02:58
because normally, the president
is elected after the election.
is elected after the election.
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因為，一般來說，
總統是在選舉之後才選出。
總統是在選舉之後才選出。
03:02
And here we had a scenario
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而這裡，我們的局面是，
03:03
where the name of the president
was flagged before the election process,
was flagged before the election process,
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在選舉過程之前，在競選
活動中，就有總統的名字
活動中，就有總統的名字
03:09
during the campaign.
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被搖旗吶喊。
03:10
So when people voted,
they knew that at some point,
they knew that at some point,
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所以當人民在投票時，他們知道，
03:12
they would have
this Muslim woman president.
this Muslim woman president.
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在某個時點，他們會
有個穆斯林女總統。
有個穆斯林女總統。
03:16
SB: Does it feel significant
to you as a woman
to you as a woman
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史：身為女性，你覺得成為
03:18
to be the first female president
of your country?
of your country?
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你的國家的第一位
女總統是很重要的嗎？
女總統是很重要的嗎？
03:22
AGF: It's important for many reasons.
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雅：很重要，理由有好幾個。
03:24
I think, obviously, you just mentioned
the terrible statistics
the terrible statistics
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很明顯，你剛剛提到
很糟糕的統計數字，
很糟糕的統計數字，
03:29
of two female presidents
in the whole of Africa.
in the whole of Africa.
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整個非洲只有兩位女性總統。
03:32
But more importantly,
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但，更重要的，
03:34
I think it's important also coming
from the background I come from --
from the background I come from --
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我認為來自什麼背景也很重要。
03:39
by background I mean not ethnic,
but more academic and entrepreneurial --
but more academic and entrepreneurial --
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我說的背景並不是指種族背景，
而是指學術和企業背景。
而是指學術和企業背景。
03:45
to be there,
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在那裡，
03:46
to be that role model for that little girl
growing in my village
growing in my village
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做為我村落裡成長中女孩的典範，
03:50
to say, "Yes, it's possible."
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說：「是，是有可能的。」
03:51
It's possible.
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是有可能的。
03:53
(Applause)
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（掌聲）
03:57
It's also important, Stephanie,
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史帝芬妮，我談到的
03:59
while I talk about diversity --
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多樣性也很重要。
04:01
diversity in the widest sense of the word.
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用這個字最廣義的定義。
04:04
We've seen that whenever
there was diversity,
there was diversity,
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我們看到，有多樣性存在的時候，
04:08
whenever there was openness,
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有開放性存在的時候，
04:10
whenever there was dialogue,
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有對話存在的時候，
04:12
this was the time when societies
have been most productive.
have been most productive.
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就是社會最有生產力的時候。
04:16
When we talk about the Arab Golden Age,
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當我們談到伊斯蘭黃金時代，
04:18
we cannot not think of Ibn Sina,
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我們不能不想到伊本西那、
04:22
al-Haytham,
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海什木、
04:24
Averroes,
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伊本魯世德、
04:25
Maimonides.
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邁蒙尼德。
04:26
This was a time
when cultures, religions --
when cultures, religions --
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在這個時代，文化、區域
04:29
they were talking to each other.
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在彼此交談，
04:31
They were at peace with each other.
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和平共存。
04:33
And this was a time
when they were highly productive.
when they were highly productive.
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在這個時代，它們的生產力非常高。
04:35
So I would say: bring down these walls.
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所以我會說：推倒這些牆。
04:37
SB: Absolutely, absolutely.
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史：絕對是，絕對是。
04:39
(Applause)
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（掌聲）
04:42
AGF: Virtual or otherwise.
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雅：不論實質或虛擬的牆。
04:45
SB: Let's also talk about
another conflict area
another conflict area
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史：咱們也來談談另一個衝突領域，
04:48
which you straddle quite interestingly.
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你也以很有意思的方式跨立的領域。
04:51
As a woman of faith and also a scientist,
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身為有信仰的女人以及科學家，
04:55
you know, faith and science
seem to be at loggerheads.
seem to be at loggerheads.
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你知道的，信仰和科學
似乎是在相爭的。
似乎是在相爭的。
04:58
It wasn't always so,
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不見得總是如此，
05:00
but I'm interested to get your thoughts
on how you reconcile both
on how you reconcile both
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但我想了解你的想法，
你如何調解兩者、
你如何調解兩者、
05:05
and how they coexist for you personally.
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對你個人而言兩者如何共存？
05:09
AGF: They're not mutually exclusive.
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雅：它們並非相斥的。
05:11
I mean, if you're a scientist,
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我的意思是，如果你是科學家，
05:13
you tend to really look
at the perfection of the human body,
at the perfection of the human body,
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你傾向會去看人類身體的完美，
05:17
the way it functions.
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看它怎麼運作。
05:19
If you look at nature as a whole.
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如果你去看整個大自然。
05:20
I'm still amazed at the perfection
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我還是會對那完美感到驚訝，
05:24
with which the entire
ecosystem functions together.
ecosystem functions together.
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整個生態系統一起運作的那種完美。
05:27
However, to the purists,
to those who are of faith,
to those who are of faith,
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然而，對純粹主義者，
對那些有信仰的人而言，
對那些有信仰的人而言，
05:32
they will tell you, "Yes,
there has been evolution."
there has been evolution."
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他們會告訴你：
「是的，有發生過演化。」
「是的，有發生過演化。」
05:34
Even the Pope has agreed
that evolution exists.
that evolution exists.
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即使教皇也同意演化是存在的。
05:38
But there's always the question:
What came first?
What came first?
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但總是會有這個問題：什麼先發生？
05:41
What came before this?
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在這之前是什麼？
05:42
When we talk about all
the various strata of evolution,
the various strata of evolution,
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當我們談到演化的所有各層時，
05:46
we'll always be asking the question,
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總會問這個問題，
05:48
there must be something before.
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之前一定還有什麼。
05:50
So I'm of the opinion that yes,
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我的意見是，是的，
05:51
there is this great spiritual force
which is guiding the process,
which is guiding the process,
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的確有偉大的靈性力量
在引導整個過程，
在引導整個過程，
05:56
and things like this
don't happen by chance.
don't happen by chance.
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像這樣的事物不會偶然發生。
05:59
Now, whether you call it religiosity,
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不論你是否稱之為篤信宗教，
06:02
whether you call
this great spirit by any name --
this great spirit by any name --
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不論你用任何名稱
來稱呼這個偉大的靈性──
來稱呼這個偉大的靈性──
06:05
Brahma, Allah, the Holy Trinity --
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梵天、阿拉、三位一體，
06:08
you name it --
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任何你想得到的──
06:09
but I still think that these two
are not mutually exclusive.
are not mutually exclusive.
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我仍然認為，這兩者是不相斥的。
06:13
They can still coexist with each other.
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它們仍然能彼此共存。
06:16
SB: So let's move
to one of your passions -- science.
to one of your passions -- science.
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史：咱們接著來談你熱衷的「科學」。
06:20
You've made no secret of that.
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你完全不保密，
06:21
And you've always been
passionate about science.
passionate about science.
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你一直都對科學很有熱忱。
06:24
I read that when you were
a very young girl,
a very young girl,
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我讀到，當你還是個小女孩時，
06:26
you went to a career guidance counselor
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你去找一個職涯指導顧問，
06:29
and told them you wanted
to become a chemist,
to become a chemist,
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告訴他們你想要當化學家，
06:32
and they said, "No, it's for boys.
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他們說：「不行，那是男生做的。
06:35
Boys do science."
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男生才做科學。」
06:37
Did that make you even more
determined to study science
determined to study science
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那是否讓你更堅決要研讀科學，
並在那個領域中成功？
06:41
and to succeed in that field?
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06:43
How did you respond to that?
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你對那件事的反應是什麼？
06:45
AGF: Well, to begin with,
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雅：嗯，首先，
06:47
I must say, before I came
to that career guidance officer,
to that career guidance officer,
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我必須說，我去找
那位職涯指導員之前，
那位職涯指導員之前，
06:50
I had great teachers who motivated.
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我有過很棒的老師，
他們一直激勵著我。
他們一直激勵著我。
06:53
And this is something I would like
to draw attention to again,
to draw attention to again,
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我想要把注意力再次拉到這裡，
06:56
to our education system.
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我們的教育體制。
06:58
We have to do away
with this rote learning.
with this rote learning.
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我們得要停止死記硬背的學習。
07:00
We have to ensure that we drive
this curiosity in the child,
this curiosity in the child,
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我們得要確保我們能
驅動孩童的好奇心，
驅動孩童的好奇心，
07:04
and they need to be curious.
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他們必須要有好奇心。
07:06
And if we want to move along the line
for them to become great scientists,
for them to become great scientists,
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如果我們想要在這個過程中
讓他們能變成偉大的科學家，
讓他們能變成偉大的科學家，
07:10
they need to become more and more
curious in everything they do.
curious in everything they do.
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他們必須要對他們
所做的一切都更好奇。
所做的一切都更好奇。
07:13
So every time -- exactly --
I went to see the careers guidance,
I went to see the careers guidance,
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所以每一次我去找職涯指導員時，
他會看著我然後說：
「你想要做什麼？」
「你想要做什麼？」
07:16
he looked at me and said,
"What do you want to do?"
"What do you want to do?"
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07:19
I said, "I want to study chemistry."
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我說：「我想讀化學。」
07:20
"Well, you shouldn't study chemistry
because this is for boys.
because this is for boys.
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「嗯，你不該讀化學，
因為那是男生讀的。
因為那是男生讀的。
07:23
And the next thing, when you come
back, there'll be no job for you."
back, there'll be no job for you."
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接下來，當你回來時，
就沒有給你做的工作了。」
就沒有給你做的工作了。」
07:27
So I went back home,
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所以我返回家，
07:28
and I had a great cheerleader at home
who happens to be my father.
who happens to be my father.
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我家裡有個很棒的
支持者，就是我老爸。
支持者，就是我老爸。
07:31
He said, "What do you want to do?"
and asked, "What did he say?"
and asked, "What did he say?"
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他對我說：「你想要做什麼？」
並問：「他說什麼？」
並問：「他說什麼？」
07:34
I said, "This is what he said ..."
He said, "What are you going to do?"
He said, "What are you going to do?"
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我說：「這就是他說的…」
他說：「你打算怎麼做？」
他說：「你打算怎麼做？」
07:37
I said, "I'm going to do chemistry."
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我說：「我要做化學。」
07:39
So there I was.
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所以我就去了。
07:41
And one thing I will say:
one must always follow your heart.
one must always follow your heart.
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我要說一件事：
你必須要跟著你的心走。
你必須要跟著你的心走。
07:44
And my heart was always in chemistry.
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我的心一直在化學。
07:46
I did what I was passionate about,
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我做了我熱愛的事，
07:48
and I thought at some point
that I had developed this thinking
that I had developed this thinking
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在某個時點，我發展出了這個想法：
07:51
that if you're passionate
about what you do,
about what you do,
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如果你熱愛你所做的事，
07:54
you will not have to work
a single day in your life,
a single day in your life,
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你人生當中的每一天都不需要工作，
07:56
until I realized it was
Confucius who said that.
Confucius who said that.
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後來我才知道這是孔子說的。
07:59
(Laughter)
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（笑聲）
08:01
SB: So do you feel a responsibility,
as someone in your position,
as someone in your position,
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史：坐在這個職位上，
你是否感到有責任
你是否感到有責任
08:07
to encourage young girls,
especially on this continent,
especially on this continent,
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要去鼓勵年輕女孩，
特別是在這塊大陸上，
特別是在這塊大陸上，
08:10
to study STEM subjects?
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鼓勵她們研讀科學、技術、
工程、數學這類的科目？
工程、數學這類的科目？
08:14
Is that something
that you actively work --
that you actively work --
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你是否會主動去努力做像這樣的事？
08:17
AGF: You know, over the past
two days, Stephanie,
two days, Stephanie,
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雅：在過去兩天，史帝芬妮，
08:19
we've been hearing a lot of conversation
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我們聽到了很多關於
08:21
about the sustainable development goals.
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永續發展目標的談話。
08:23
We've seen that, for example,
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比如，我們了解到
08:25
Africa must be food secure,
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非洲需要有糧食保障。
08:26
Africa must be energy secure,
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非洲需要有能源保障。
08:28
Africa must be water secure.
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非洲需要有水保障。
08:30
If we want to get
to that level of development --
to that level of development --
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如果我們想要達到那種程度的發展，
08:33
Agenda 2030 is not very far away --
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2030 議程並不是那麼遙遠，
08:36
if you want to have success,
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如果你想要成功，
08:38
we need to have
an educated youth in Africa.
an educated youth in Africa.
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在非洲我們必須有受教育的年輕人。
08:43
And again, to be very cliché:
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同樣的，這是老調了：
08:45
you cannot achieve,
you cannot win a football match,
you cannot win a football match,
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你無法達到成功，你無法贏一場足球賽，
08:49
if you're going to leave 52 percent
of the team outside.
of the team outside.
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如果你打算把 52% 的隊員留在場外
08:54
It's not possible.
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是不可能贏的。
08:56
(Applause)
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（掌聲）
08:59
SB: Yes.
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史：是的。
09:00
AGF: So we need highly educated,
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雅：所以我們需要高度受教育的，
09:02
we need female intuition,
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我們需要女性直覺，
09:04
and we need to get them there.
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我們需要做到這些。
09:06
And this is where a great deal
of effort has to be done
of effort has to be done
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在這裡需要花很多的功夫，
09:09
to actually motivate
them from a very young age,
them from a very young age,
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才能在孩童很小的時候
便去激勵他們，
便去激勵他們，
09:12
to tell that girl
that she can do anything.
that she can do anything.
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告訴那個女孩，她可以做到任何事。
09:15
And if the message comes from her father,
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如果這個訊息是來自她的父親，
09:17
if the message comes from her brother,
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如果這個訊息是來自她的哥哥，
09:20
it's even much more powerful.
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它會更強大更有力。
09:21
We need to tell her
that anything is possible
that anything is possible
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我們需要告訴她，什麼都有可能，
09:24
and she can do it.
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且她辦得到。
09:25
We need to build her self-confidence
from a very early age,
from a very early age,
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我們需要在她很小的時候
就建立她的自信，
就建立她的自信，
09:28
but more importantly,
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更重要的是
09:30
we also need to actually
look at the books,
look at the books,
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我們也要仔細觀察書本裡的東西，
09:32
because there are too many stereotypes.
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因為書中存在太多刻板的成見。
09:35
Last year, I was very shocked
when I went to a debate on Women's Day.
when I went to a debate on Women's Day.
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去年，我去一場關於婦女節
的辯論時感到十分震驚。
的辯論時感到十分震驚。
09:38
They had a survey,
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他們有項調查，
09:40
and they were asking these girls
how many women inventors we have,
how many women inventors we have,
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他們去詢問女孩，我們
有多少女性發明家、
有多少女性發明家、
09:44
how many women scientists do we have.
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有多少女性科學家。
09:47
And you'd be shocked
that hardly anyone knew
that hardly anyone knew
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你會覺得很震驚，幾乎沒有人知道
09:50
that Ada Lovelace was there
behind computer science,
behind computer science,
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愛達·勒芙蕾絲
是電腦科學領域的先驅，
是電腦科學領域的先驅，
09:53
that Marie Curie still remains iconic
with two Nobel prizes.
with two Nobel prizes.
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居禮夫人是贏得
兩項諾貝爾獎的指標人物。
兩項諾貝爾獎的指標人物。
09:57
So there's a lot of homework to do
to actually make --
to actually make --
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還有很多功課要做，才能真的讓──
10:00
to remove all these gender biases
at a very young age;
at a very young age;
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才能在非常小的年紀
就將這些性別偏見除去；
就將這些性別偏見除去；
10:05
instill that confidence in that girl;
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讓那個小女孩能夠有信心；
10:07
to tell her that she can do as well
if not better than her brother.
if not better than her brother.
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告訴她，她可以做得
和她哥哥一樣好，甚至更好。
和她哥哥一樣好，甚至更好。
10:11
SB: Yes.
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史：是的。
10:12
(Applause)
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（掌聲）
10:16
Thank you.
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謝謝。
10:17
So, let's move on to an area
that I know you've been very active in,
that I know you've been very active in,
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咱們再接著談下一個領域，
我知道你在這個領域一直很活躍，
我知道你在這個領域一直很活躍，
10:22
which is the issue of biodiversity.
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也就是關於生物多樣性的議題。
10:24
You've been quite clear that this
is an area that Africa must embrace.
is an area that Africa must embrace.
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你非常清楚知道，
非洲必須要擁抱這個領域。
非洲必須要擁抱這個領域。
10:30
We have an abundance of rich
herbal traditions and plants
herbal traditions and plants
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我們有很豐富的草藥傳統和植物，
10:34
that could be developed
into a big pharmaceutical industry.
into a big pharmaceutical industry.
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可以發展成很大的藥品業。
10:39
Can you tell us a little bit
of how you've been using your expertise
of how you've been using your expertise
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你能否和我們談談，
你過去如何在這個領域中
你過去如何在這個領域中
10:43
to harness growth in this area?
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使用你的專長來幫助成長？
10:46
AGF: Thank you.
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雅：謝謝。
10:47
Yesterday, I was listening
to one of the talks;
to one of the talks;
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昨天，我在聽其中一場演說；
10:49
it was the talk about the need for Africa
to turn into a knowledge economy.
to turn into a knowledge economy.
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那場演說是關於非洲需要
轉變成為一個知識經濟體。
轉變成為一個知識經濟體。
10:54
Africa has got very rich traditions.
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非洲有非常豐富的傳統。
10:57
Sub-Saharan Africa, southern Africa,
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撒哈拉以南非洲，非洲南部，
10:59
has got over 5,000
medicinal plant species,
medicinal plant species,
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有超過五千種的醫療用植物品種
11:03
not harnessed.
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都還沒被利用。
11:04
And, in fact, at the TED talk
I gave in 2014,
I gave in 2014,
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事實上，在 2014 年
我來 TED 做的演說中，
我來 TED 做的演說中，
11:07
I came out with one sentence:
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我說出了一句話：
11:09
"Biodiversity underpins life on earth."
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「生物多樣性加強了
地球上之生命的基礎。」
地球上之生命的基礎。」
11:12
And if we don't look after
this biodiversity,
this biodiversity,
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如果我們不好好照顧這生物多樣性，
11:15
if we don't protect it,
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如果我們不保護它，
11:16
if we don't actually
harness it in the right way,
harness it in the right way,
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如果我們不用正確的方式來利用它，
11:20
we are threatening
our own livelihoods on this planet.
our own livelihoods on this planet.
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我們就會威脅到我們
自己在地球上的生計。
自己在地球上的生計。
11:24
When we talk about the contribution
from countries of the north
from countries of the north
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我們談到北方國家對於綠色氣候基金
11:28
to the Green Fund
for the protection of our planet,
for the protection of our planet,
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做出貢獻，來保護我們的星球，
11:32
it is not charity.
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那並不是慈善事業，
11:34
It is to ensure our own collective
livelihoods on this planet.
livelihoods on this planet.
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那是要保障我們自己
在地球上的集體生計。
在地球上的集體生計。
11:39
So this is something
that must be addressed.
that must be addressed.
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所以這是必須要處理的事情。
11:41
Now, again, when you talk about
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同樣的，當談到要讓
11:43
getting this biodiversity
of Africa working for us,
of Africa working for us,
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非洲的生物多樣性對我們有用處，
11:47
you'd be shocked to know
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你會很震驚，因為
11:48
that out of the 1,100 blockbuster drugs
that we have on the market,
that we have on the market,
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我們在市場上有 1,100 種暢銷藥物，
11:55
only 83 come from African plants.
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當中只有 83 種是來自非洲植物。
11:58
Why is this so?
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為什麼會這樣？
12:00
Because we are responsible;
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因為我們要負責，
12:02
us Africans.
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我們非洲人
12:03
We don't value
our own traditional knowledge.
our own traditional knowledge.
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不珍視自己的傳統知識，
12:06
We don't give it the same status
as allopathic medicine.
as allopathic medicine.
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我們沒把它和現代醫學平等地看待。
12:11
Look at what China has done.
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看看中國所做的，
12:12
China has given the same status
for traditional Chinese medicine
for traditional Chinese medicine
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中國給予傳統中藥和現代醫學的藥物
12:17
as allopathic medicine,
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同等的地位，
12:18
as of 2016.
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始於 2016 年。
12:21
Our governments, our people,
have not documented,
have not documented,
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我們的政府、我們的人民
一直沒有做記錄，
一直沒有做記錄，
12:24
have not taken this knowledge seriously.
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沒有認真看待這項知識。
12:27
If you want to get serious about Africa
becoming a knowledge continent,
becoming a knowledge continent,
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如果是認真地想要讓
非洲變成是知識大陸，
非洲變成是知識大陸，
12:34
this is something that we need
to address very seriously,
to address very seriously,
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這就是我們得要嚴肅處理的議題，
12:37
we need to start documenting,
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我們要開始做記錄，
12:38
we need to start codifying this knowledge,
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我們要開始把這項知識編成法典，
12:40
and unfortunately,
we are racing against time
we are racing against time
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不幸的是，我們在和時間賽跑，
12:43
because tradition in Africa is that
the transmission has always been oral.
the transmission has always been oral.
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4821
因為在非洲，傳統上的傳播方式
一直都是用口頭的。
一直都是用口頭的。
12:48
So we need to get our act together
and make it happen.
and make it happen.
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所以我們得要開始行動，讓它實現。
12:51
SB: So there's really a sense
of urgency around this.
of urgency around this.
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史：這方面真的是有種緊急感。
12:54
AGF: Yes.
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1308
雅：是的。
12:55
(Applause)
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3439
（掌聲）
12:59
SB: And have you done anything yourself
in respect to documenting --
in respect to documenting --
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4932
史：關於記錄這方面，
你自己有做什麼嗎？
你自己有做什麼嗎？
13:04
AGF: Yes, I definitely did.
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雅：有，絕對有。
13:05
When I started my career in academia,
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當我開始在學術界的職涯，
13:08
one of the first things I did
was I documented precisely these plants.
was I documented precisely these plants.
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我最早做的其中一件事
就是精確記錄這些植物。
就是精確記錄這些植物。
13:12
And I'll tell you one thing --
it was not perceived to be very serious,
it was not perceived to be very serious,
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我可以告訴你，一直以來
「紀錄」這件事沒被認真看待。
「紀錄」這件事沒被認真看待。
13:15
because here I was,
in synthetic organic chemistry,
in synthetic organic chemistry,
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因為我做合成有機化學，
13:18
going out there,
talking to these grandmothers,
talking to these grandmothers,
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去外面和老太太們對談，
13:22
documenting their recipes.
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1994
記錄她們的處方。
我的意思是，你可不能當真
只把這些野草帶進實驗室，
只把這些野草帶進實驗室，
13:24
I mean, you can't be serious --
bringing weeds in the lab,
bringing weeds in the lab,
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3226
13:27
and say, "We're going
to be working on these."
to be working on these."
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說：「我們要來研究這些。」
13:29
Are we going to get results?
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我們會得到結果嗎？
13:31
So it was really a race against prejudice
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所以這是在和偏見賽跑，
13:35
to try to take people's --
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試著把人們的──
13:37
bring them to the table and say,
"Look, this is very important."
"Look, this is very important."
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請人們坐下來，對他們說：
「聽著，這很重要。」
「聽著，這很重要。」
13:41
But I'm glad I did,
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但我很高興我做了，
13:42
because by that time, you start
developing a crocodile skin,
developing a crocodile skin,
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因為那時，你開始開發鱷魚皮膚，
13:45
especially when you're a woman in the lab
doing different things.
doing different things.
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特別是當你是實驗室中
的女性，在做不同的事。
的女性，在做不同的事。
13:48
You know -- you become suspect.
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你知道－你會帶著很多疑問。
13:49
So I documented it; I'm very happy I did.
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所以我記錄了它；我很高興我做了。
13:52
And now, almost 20 years
since the documentation,
since the documentation,
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3568
現在，離記錄那時已經快二十年了，
13:55
it now constitutes prior art,
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823717
1981
它現在成了先前技術，
現在在世界智慧財產權組織
做了很好的記錄，
做了很好的記錄，
13:57
and is now very well-documented at WIPO,
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825722
2074
13:59
and it is now the information which,
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3002
它也是後來我的公司
14:02
subsequently, my company actually
started working on as well.
started working on as well.
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4208
真的開始研究的資訊。
14:07
SB: So, I watched you in the makeup room
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史：我看到你在化妝室時，
14:11
taking selfies with the makeup artist,
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2462
和化妝師拍自拍照，
14:13
and just being generally very accessible.
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2911
就是非常平易近人。
14:16
And it strikes me
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1208
我有點吃驚，
14:17
that you're not the kind of typical,
big-man, African leader.
big-man, African leader.
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3516
因為你不是那種典型的
大男人非洲領導人。
大男人非洲領導人。
14:21
You seem very --
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1158
你似乎非常──
14:22
AGF: You just demoted me.
You called me a man.
You called me a man.
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雅：你剛剛把我降級了，稱我為男人。
14:24
(Laughter)
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（笑聲）
14:26
SB: I mean your style --
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1234
史：我是指你的風格──
14:27
(Applause)
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（掌聲）
14:28
Your style seems to be very accessible
and quite unassuming.
and quite unassuming.
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你的風格似乎非常友善
且很不愛出風頭。
且很不愛出風頭。
14:34
So is this --
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1526
所以這是──
14:36
I mean, people tend to ask women leaders
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3313
我的意思是，人們
傾向會問女性領導人
傾向會問女性領導人
14:39
if their gender has a bearing
on the way they rule,
on the way they rule,
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867809
4969
她們的性別是否會和
她們治國的方式有關聯，
她們治國的方式有關聯，
14:44
or the way they lead.
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1993
或和她們領導的方式有關。
14:46
Does that apply to you?
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2584
這適用在你身上嗎？
14:49
AGF: You know, I've never
taken myself seriously.
taken myself seriously.
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2356
雅：你知道，我從來
不會嚴肅看待我自己。
不會嚴肅看待我自己。
14:51
SB: OK. That's good.
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1151
史：好，那很好。
14:52
(Laughter)
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1214
（笑聲）
14:54
AGF: I still don't.
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1151
雅：現在也一樣。
14:55
And I don't think you should
take yourself seriously.
take yourself seriously.
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2890
我不認為你應該要嚴肅地看待你自己。
14:58
You need to have trust in what you can do,
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2187
你需要相信自己能做事，
15:00
have confidence in yourself
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1774
對你自己有信心，
15:02
and give yourself a set of goals
and just work towards them.
and just work towards them.
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3657
給你自己一組目標，
只管朝目標前進。
只管朝目標前進。
15:05
So the goal I've given myself is,
OK, I'm leading my third life --
OK, I'm leading my third life --
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4090
所以我給自己的目標是，
好，我在過我第三個人生──
好，我在過我第三個人生──
15:10
because I've been an academic,
I've been an entrepreneur, now I'm here.
I've been an entrepreneur, now I'm here.
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3434
因為我曾有學術人生，
我有企業家人生，現在我在這裡。
我有企業家人生，現在我在這裡。
15:13
I'm hoping to have a fourth life.
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1613
我希望會有第四個人生。
15:15
So put these to work for the continent.
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903208
2783
所以，要讓這些能在非洲大陸實現。
15:18
And this is why I have chosen
to give my voice to so many initiatives
to give my voice to so many initiatives
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906015
4584
這就是為什麼我選擇
要為這麼多計畫發聲，
要為這麼多計畫發聲，
15:22
that would help the youth of Africa
become tech-savvy,
become tech-savvy,
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910623
3928
這些計畫能協助
非洲的年輕人知曉科技、
非洲的年輕人知曉科技、
15:26
become science-savvy,
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1400
知曉科學，
15:27
because as I said earlier on,
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1621
因為我先前說過，
15:29
up until they get to grips with science,
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3998
除非他們能夠掌握科學，
15:33
with whatever is around --
media, technology, you name it,
media, technology, you name it,
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4668
不論用身邊的什麼東西，
媒體、技術、你想得到的都可以，
媒體、技術、你想得到的都可以，
15:38
all calls for a good grounding in science,
technology and innovation.
technology and innovation.
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926358
4339
都需要在科學、技術、
創新上有很好的基礎。
創新上有很好的基礎。
15:42
I think we'll be here,
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1282
我想再十年或二十年，
15:44
10 years, 20 years down the line,
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1930
我們將會在這裡，
15:45
having the same conversation.
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1647
做同樣的對談。
15:48
SB: Let's talk quickly
about the challenges
about the challenges
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2034
史：咱們再快速談一下關於
15:50
of leadership and governance.
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2437
領導和治理的挑戰。
15:52
It's hard to ignore
that there's corruption on this continent
that there's corruption on this continent
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5407
這塊大陸上，我們的一些
領導人有貪腐的行為，
領導人有貪腐的行為，
15:57
with some of our leaders.
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1697
這點很難忽略。
15:59
How have you confronted that in your role,
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3547
以你的角色，你要如何面對？
16:03
and what experiences can you
share with us around this issue?
share with us around this issue?
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5357
關於這個議題，你有什麼
經驗可以和我們分享？
經驗可以和我們分享？
16:08
AGF: We've had corruption --
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1408
雅：我們一直有貪腐，
16:10
corruption doesn't exist only in Africa.
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958096
1947
貪腐不是非洲才有。
16:12
Where there is a corruptee,
there is a corrupter.
there is a corrupter.
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2311
有受賄者的地方就會有行賄者。
16:14
Right? It's always a two-way process.
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2619
對嗎？它一直都是雙向的過程。
16:18
We have focused in my country,
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966230
2095
在我的國家，我們有在注意這事，
16:20
we are working very hard towards
doing something about corruption,
doing something about corruption,
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968349
4223
我們非常努力要來處理貪腐，
16:24
but, you know, they also have
great people in Africa.
great people in Africa.
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2499
但，你知道，在非洲也有很好的人。
16:27
Why do we always focus on the negative?
Why don't we talk about ...
Why don't we talk about ...
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3178
為什麼我們都把焦點放在負面？
我們為什麼不談談──
我們為什麼不談談──
16:30
I want to bring on board, for example,
the great quotes of Nelson Mandela.
the great quotes of Nelson Mandela.
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978321
4240
比如，我想引用
納爾遜曼德拉很棒的引述。
納爾遜曼德拉很棒的引述。
16:34
His legacy is still very much alive.
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2397
他的遺產仍然活著。
16:37
We have people in -- even in Tanzania,
we've had Julius Nyerere,
we've had Julius Nyerere,
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3702
我們有些人在──甚至在坦尚尼亞，
我們有朱利葉斯尼雷爾、
我們有朱利葉斯尼雷爾、
16:40
he have Nkrumah,
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1284
我們有恩克魯瑪、
16:42
we have Kenyatta,
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1284
我們有甘耶達、
16:43
we have all these people
who have been champions of Africa.
who have been champions of Africa.
356
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2786
我們有所有這些
出類拔萃的非洲人。
出類拔萃的非洲人。
16:46
I think we need to take
pages of their book and see.
pages of their book and see.
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2665
我想我們得要去效法他們。
16:48
In fact, Julius Nyerere himself
had been a great advocate for science
had been a great advocate for science
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3985
事實上，朱利葉斯尼雷爾
自己就很擁護科學，
自己就很擁護科學，
16:52
when he said that "science
will make deserts bloom."
will make deserts bloom."
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1000856
3816
他說：「科學會讓沙漠也能開花。」
16:56
So these are some of the founding
fathers of this continent;
fathers of this continent;
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1004696
3669
他們都是這塊大陸的一些開國元勛；
17:00
we need to take pages from them
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1636
我們需要向他們學習，
17:02
and move ahead.
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1311
並向前走。
17:03
(Applause)
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2481
（掌聲）
17:05
SB: Thank you very much,
President Fakim.
President Fakim.
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1970
史：非常謝謝你，法金總統。
17:07
AGF: Thank you.
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雅：謝謝你。
17:09
(Applause)
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（掌聲）
ABOUT THE SPEAKERS
Ameenah Gurib-Fakim - President of MauritiusAmeenah Gurib-Fakim is the president of the Republic of Mauritius. She has been a university professor and entrepreneur before her election as the first female Head of State of Mauritius.
Why you should listen
In June 2015, Ameenah Gurib-Fakim became the first female president of Mauritius. She's been honored as one of Foreign Policy's 2015 Global Thinkers and is moving to create opportunity and growth for her island home. Gurib-Fakim has been, prior to joining the State House, the Managing Director of the Centre International de Développement Pharmaceutique (CIDP) Research and Innovation as well as professor of organic chemistry with an endowed chair at the University of Mauritius.
Gurib-Fakim has long been a leading biodiversity scientist studying and validating the flora of Mauritius, one of the world's key biodiversity hotspots. As an entrepreneur at CIDP R & I and professor of organic chemistry, she analyzed the plants from the region for their health, nutritional and cosmetic applications.
Ameenah Gurib-Fakim | Speaker | TED.com
Stephanie Busari - Journalist
Stephanie Busari is a journalist and editor at CNN International Digital.
Why you should listen
Stephanie Busari moved to Lagos from London in July 2016 to pioneer CNN's first digital and multimedia bureau. She also reports on-air in breaking news situations for CNN International.
In April 2016 Busari exclusively obtained the "proof of life" video that showed that the missing Chibok schoolgirls who were kidnapped in Nigeria in 2014 were still alive. She was also an instrumental member of the CNN team that won a Peabody Award in May 2015 for the network's coverage of the missing girls. Busari recently won a Gracie Award for her persistence in covering this story, and she's also a previous recipient of the Outstanding Woman in the Media Awards.
Busari is a passionate community activist who curated TEDxBrixton for three years before she left London. She founded TEDxBrixton in 2013 driven by a desire to bring disparate elements of her community together and to create a platform for those who wouldn't normally have one to share their ideas worth spreading.
A passionate and adept public speaker, Busari is regularly invited to share her insights and host panels. She has spoken at UN Women, Said Business School, Oxford, Africa Gathering among others.
Over a 15-year career, Busari has worked as a news reporter, entertainment and features writer, court reporter and columnist, and she has been published in many of the UK and international media's most influential outlets, such as the BBC and Daily Mirror.
During a six-month stint in Northern Ireland in 2003, Busari spent time in some of the worst affected areas of "The Troubles" and secured interviews with a crucifixion victim, government ministers and paramilitaries. While there, she also launched and edited an award-winning lifestyle column.
A native Yoruba speaker, Busari also speaks fluent French and is currently learning Hausa.
Stephanie Busari | Speaker | TED.com