TEDGlobal 2011
Alison Gopnik: What do babies think?
Alison Gopnik: Hvad tænker småbørn?
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"Spædbørn og småbørn er som menneskehedens forsknings- og udviklingsafdeling," siger Alison Gopnik, psykolog. Hendes forskning undersøger den sofistikerede informationsindsamling og beslutningstagen, som små børn i virkeligheden foretager, når de leger.
Alison Gopnik - Child development psychologist
Alison Gopnik takes us into the fascinating minds of babies and children, and shows us how much we understand before we even realize we do. Full bio
Alison Gopnik takes us into the fascinating minds of babies and children, and shows us how much we understand before we even realize we do. Full bio
Double-click the English transcript below to play the video.
00:15
What is going on
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Hvad sker der
00:17
in this baby's mind?
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i dette barns sind?
00:19
If you'd asked people this 30 years ago,
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Hvis du spurgte folk for 30 år siden,
00:21
most people, including psychologists,
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ville de fleste, også psykologer,
00:23
would have said that this baby was irrational,
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have sagt, at dette barn var irrationelt,
00:26
illogical, egocentric --
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ulogisk, egocentrisk --
00:28
that he couldn't take the perspective of another person
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at han ikke kunne forstå andres perspektiv
00:30
or understand cause and effect.
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eller forstå årsag og virkning.
00:32
In the last 20 years,
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Indenfor de sidste 20 år
00:34
developmental science has completely overturned that picture.
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har udviklingspsykologien fuldstændig omstødt det billede.
00:37
So in some ways,
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Så på sin vis synes vi,
00:39
we think that this baby's thinking
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at dette barns tankemåde
00:41
is like the thinking of the most brilliant scientists.
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er som den mest strålende forskers.
00:45
Let me give you just one example of this.
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Lad mig give et enkelt eksempel.
00:47
One thing that this baby could be thinking about,
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En ting, som dette barn kunne tænke på,
00:50
that could be going on in his mind,
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som måske sker i hans hoved,
00:52
is trying to figure out
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er at prøve at regne ud,
00:54
what's going on in the mind of that other baby.
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hvad der sker i hovedet på det andet barn.
00:57
After all, one of the things that's hardest for all of us to do
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Det er jo noget af det sværeste for os alle
01:00
is to figure out what other people are thinking and feeling.
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at regne ud, hvad andre tænker og føler.
01:03
And maybe the hardest thing of all
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Og måske er det sværeste
01:05
is to figure out that what other people think and feel
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at regne ud, at hvad andre tænker og føler
01:08
isn't actually exactly like what we think and feel.
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faktisk ikke er det samme, som vi tænker og føler.
01:10
Anyone who's followed politics can testify
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Enhver, som har fulgt med i politik, kan vidne om
01:12
to how hard that is for some people to get.
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hvor svært det er for nogen at forstå.
01:15
We wanted to know
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Vi ville vide,
01:17
if babies and young children
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om spædbørn og småbørn
01:19
could understand this really profound thing about other people.
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kunne forstå denne gennemgribende ting om andre mennesker.
01:22
Now the question is: How could we ask them?
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Spørgsmålet er: Hvordan kunne vi spørge dem?
01:24
Babies, after all, can't talk,
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Spædbørn kan jo ikke tale,
01:26
and if you ask a three year-old
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og hvis du beder en treårig
01:28
to tell you what he thinks,
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om at fortælle dig, hvad han tænker,
01:30
what you'll get is a beautiful stream of consciousness monologue
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så får du en smuk bevidsthedsstrøm
01:33
about ponies and birthdays and things like that.
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om ponyer og fødselsdage og den slags.
01:36
So how do we actually ask them the question?
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Så hvordan stiller vi dem reelt spørgsmålet?
01:39
Well it turns out that the secret was broccoli.
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Det viste sig, at hemmeligheden var broccoli.
01:42
What we did -- Betty Rapacholi, who was one of my students, and I --
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Det, vi gjorde -- Betty Rapacholi, som var en af mine elever, og jeg --
01:46
was actually to give the babies two bowls of food:
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var faktisk at give børnene to skåle mad:
01:49
one bowl of raw broccoli
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En skål med rå broccoli
01:51
and one bowl of delicious goldfish crackers.
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og en skål med lækre guldfiskekiks.
01:54
Now all of the babies, even in Berkley,
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Alle børnene, selv dem i Berkeley,
01:57
like the crackers and don't like the raw broccoli.
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kan lide kiksene og kan ikke lide rå broccoli.
02:00
(Laughter)
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(Latter)
02:02
But then what Betty did
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Men hvad Betty så gjorde,
02:04
was to take a little taste of food from each bowl.
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var at tage en lille bid fra hver skål.
02:07
And she would act as if she liked it or she didn't.
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Og hun ville lade som om, hun kunne lide det eller ej.
02:09
So half the time, she acted
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Så hver anden gang lod hun som om,
02:11
as if she liked the crackers and didn't like the broccoli --
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hun kunne lide kiksene og ikke broccolien --
02:13
just like a baby and any other sane person.
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ligesom barnet og enhver fornuftig person.
02:16
But half the time,
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Men hver anden gang gjorde hun det,
02:18
what she would do is take a little bit of the broccoli
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at hun tog en smule broccoli
02:20
and go, "Mmmmm, broccoli.
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og sagde: "Mmm, broccoli.
02:23
I tasted the broccoli. Mmmmm."
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Jeg smagte broccolien. Mmm."
02:26
And then she would take a little bit of the crackers,
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Og så tog hun lidt af kiksene
02:28
and she'd go, "Eww, yuck, crackers.
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og sagde: "Adr badr, kiks.
02:32
I tasted the crackers. Eww, yuck."
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Jeg smagte kiksene. Adr badr."
02:35
So she'd act as if what she wanted
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Så hun lod som om, hun ville have
02:37
was just the opposite of what the babies wanted.
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det modsatte af, hvad børnene ville have.
02:40
We did this with 15 and 18 month-old babies.
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Vi gjorde dette med spædbørn på 15 og 18 måneder.
02:42
And then she would simply put her hand out and say,
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Og så stak hun bare hånden frem og sagde:
02:45
"Can you give me some?"
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"Kan du give mig noget?"
02:47
So the question is: What would the baby give her,
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Så spørgsmålet er: Hvad ville barnet give hende,
02:49
what they liked or what she liked?
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det, de kunne lide eller det, hun kunne lide?
02:51
And the remarkable thing was that 18 month-old babies,
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Og det bemærkelsesværdige er, at børn på 18 måneder,
02:54
just barely walking and talking,
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som kun lige havde lært at gå og tale,
02:56
would give her the crackers if she liked the crackers,
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ville give hende kiks, hvis hun kunne lide kiks,
02:59
but they would give her the broccoli if she liked the broccoli.
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men de ville give hende broccoli, hvis hun kunne lide broccoli.
03:02
On the other hand,
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Derimod ville børn på 15 måneder
03:04
15 month-olds would stare at her for a long time
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stirre længe på hende,
03:06
if she acted as if she liked the broccoli,
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hvis hun lod som om, hun kunne lide broccoli,
03:08
like they couldn't figure this out.
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som om de ikke kunne regne den ud.
03:11
But then after they stared for a long time,
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Men når de så havde stirret et stykke tid,
03:13
they would just give her the crackers,
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ville de bare give hende kiksene,
03:15
what they thought everybody must like.
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som de tænke, at alle kunne lide.
03:17
So there are two really remarkable things about this.
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Så der er to bemærkelsesværdige ting her.
03:20
The first one is that these little 18 month-old babies
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Den første er, at disse børn på 18 måneder
03:23
have already discovered
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allerede har opdaget
03:25
this really profound fact about human nature,
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den gennemgribende kendsgerning om menneskets natur,
03:27
that we don't always want the same thing.
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at vi ikke altid vil det samme.
03:29
And what's more, they felt that they should actually do things
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Og derudover følte de, at de faktisk skulle gøre noget
03:31
to help other people get what they wanted.
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for at hjælpe andre med at få, hvad de ville have.
03:34
Even more remarkably though,
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Endnu mere bemærkelsesværdigt:
03:36
the fact that 15 month-olds didn't do this
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Det, at børn på 15 måneder ikke gjorde dette,
03:39
suggests that these 18 month-olds had learned
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tyder på, at de 18 måneder gamle børn havde lært
03:42
this deep, profound fact about human nature
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denne dybe kendsgerning om menneskets natur
03:45
in the three months from when they were 15 months old.
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på tre måneder, siden de var 15 måneder gamle.
03:48
So children both know more and learn more
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Så børn både ved og lærer mere,
03:50
than we ever would have thought.
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end vi nogensinde ville have troet.
03:52
And this is just one of hundreds and hundreds of studies over the last 20 years
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Og dette er bare en af hundredvis af undersøgelser gennem de sidste 20 år,
03:56
that's actually demonstrated it.
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som har demonstreret det.
03:58
The question you might ask though is:
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Det, man måske spørger om, er:
04:00
Why do children learn so much?
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Hvorfor lærer børn så meget?
04:03
And how is it possible for them to learn so much
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Og hvordan kan de lære så meget
04:05
in such a short time?
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på så kort tid?
04:07
I mean, after all, if you look at babies superficially,
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Jeg mener, hvis du ser overfladisk på spædbørn,
04:09
they seem pretty useless.
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virker de ret ubrugelige.
04:11
And actually in many ways, they're worse than useless,
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Og på mange måder er de faktisk værre end ubrugelige,
04:14
because we have to put so much time and energy
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fordi vi er nødt til at ofre så megen tid og energi
04:16
into just keeping them alive.
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bare for at holde dem i live.
04:18
But if we turn to evolution
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Men hvis vi vender os mod evolutionen
04:20
for an answer to this puzzle
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for at få svar på,
04:22
of why we spend so much time
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hvorfor vi bruger så megen tid
04:24
taking care of useless babies,
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på at tage os af ubrugelige spædbørn,
04:27
it turns out that there's actually an answer.
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viser det sig, at der faktisk er et svar.
04:30
If we look across many, many different species of animals,
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Hvis vi ser på mange forskellige dyrearter,
04:33
not just us primates,
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ikke kun os primater,
04:35
but also including other mammals, birds,
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men også andre pattedyr, fugle,
04:37
even marsupials
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selv pungdyr
04:39
like kangaroos and wombats,
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som kænguruer og vombatter,
04:41
it turns out that there's a relationship
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viser det sig, at der er en sammenhæng
04:43
between how long a childhood a species has
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mellem, hvor lang barndom en art har,
04:47
and how big their brains are compared to their bodies
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og hvor store deres hjerner er i forhold til deres kroppe,
04:51
and how smart and flexible they are.
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og hvor kloge og smidige, de er.
04:53
And sort of the posterbirds for this idea are the birds up there.
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Og en slags frontfigur for denne tanke er fuglene deroppe.
04:56
On one side
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På den ene side
04:58
is a New Caledonian crow.
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er en ny-kaledonisk krage.
05:00
And crows and other corvidae, ravens, rooks and so forth,
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Og krager og andre corvidae, ravne, råger osv.,
05:03
are incredibly smart birds.
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er utroligt kloge fugle.
05:05
They're as smart as chimpanzees in some respects.
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De er på sin vis så kloge som chimpanser.
05:08
And this is a bird on the cover of science
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Og dette er en fugl på forsiden af Science,
05:10
who's learned how to use a tool to get food.
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som har lært at bruge et redskab til at få mad.
05:13
On the other hand,
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På den anden hånd
05:15
we have our friend the domestic chicken.
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har vi vores ven tamhønen.
05:17
And chickens and ducks and geese and turkeys
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Og høns og ænder og gæs og kalkuner
05:20
are basically as dumb as dumps.
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er stort set så dumme som døre.
05:22
So they're very, very good at pecking for grain,
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De er utroligt gode til at finde korn,
05:25
and they're not much good at doing anything else.
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og de er ikke ret gode til andet.
05:28
Well it turns out that the babies,
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Nå, men det viser sig, at ungerne,
05:30
the New Caledonian crow babies, are fledglings.
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de ny-kaledoniske krageunger, er skrællinger.
05:32
They depend on their moms
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De er afhængige af, at deres mødre
05:34
to drop worms in their little open mouths
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stopper orme i deres små, åbne munde
05:37
for as long as two years,
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i op til to år,
05:39
which is a really long time in the life of a bird.
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hvilket er en virkelig stor del af en fugls levetid.
05:41
Whereas the chickens are actually mature
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Hvorimod kyllingerne faktisk bliver modne
05:43
within a couple of months.
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på et par måneder.
05:45
So childhood is the reason
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Så barndom er årsagen til,
05:48
why the crows end up on the cover of Science
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at kragerne ender på forsiden af Science,
05:50
and the chickens end up in the soup pot.
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og hønsene ender i suppegryden.
05:52
There's something about that long childhood
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Der er noget med den lange barndom,
05:55
that seems to be connected
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som synes at være forbundet
05:57
to knowledge and learning.
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med viden og læring.
05:59
Well what kind of explanation could we have for this?
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Hvilken forklaring kan vi have på dette?
06:02
Well some animals, like the chicken,
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Jo, nogle dyr, som hønen,
06:05
seem to be beautifully suited
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virker fantastisk velegnede
06:07
to doing just one thing very well.
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til at gøre én ting utroligt godt.
06:09
So they seem to be beautifully suited
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Så de virker fantastisk velegnede
06:12
to pecking grain in one environment.
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til at finde korn i ét miljø.
06:14
Other creatures, like the crows,
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Andre skabninger, som kragerne,
06:16
aren't very good at doing anything in particular,
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er ikke utroligt gode til noget særligt,
06:18
but they're extremely good
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men de er yderst gode
06:20
at learning about laws of different environments.
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til at lære forskrifterne i forskellige miljøer.
06:22
And of course, we human beings
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Og vi mennesker
06:24
are way out on the end of the distribution like the crows.
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er selvfølgelig langt ude mod enden af skalaen som kragerne.
06:27
We have bigger brains relative to our bodies
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Vi har langt større hjerner i forhold til vores kroppe
06:29
by far than any other animal.
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end noget andet dyr.
06:31
We're smarter, we're more flexible,
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Vi er klogere, vi er smidigere,
06:33
we can learn more,
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vi kan lære mere,
06:35
we survive in more different environments,
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vi overlever i flere forskellige miljøer,
06:37
we migrated to cover the world and even go to outer space.
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vi migrerer og dækker verden, og vi tager endda til det ydre rum.
06:40
And our babies and children are dependent on us
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Og vores spædbørn og børn er afhængige af os
06:43
for much longer than the babies of any other species.
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i meget længere tid, end nogen anden arts børn.
06:46
My son is 23.
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Min søn er 23.
06:48
(Laughter)
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(Latter)
06:50
And at least until they're 23,
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Og i hvert fald til de er 23,
06:52
we're still popping those worms
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stopper vi stadig orme
06:54
into those little open mouths.
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i de små, åbne munde.
06:57
All right, why would we see this correlation?
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Hvorfor skulle vi se den sammenhæng?
07:00
Well an idea is that that strategy, that learning strategy,
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Jo, tanken er, at den strategi, den læringsstrategi,
07:04
is an extremely powerful, great strategy for getting on in the world,
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er en særdeles kraftfuld strategi for at klare sig i verden,
07:07
but it has one big disadvantage.
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men den har én stor ulempe.
07:09
And that one big disadvantage
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Og den store ulempe er,
07:11
is that, until you actually do all that learning,
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at indtil du faktisk har gennemgået al den indlæring,
07:14
you're going to be helpless.
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er du hjælpeløs.
07:16
So you don't want to have the mastodon charging at you
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Så du har jo ikke lyst til, at mastodonten stormer mod dig,
07:19
and be saying to yourself,
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og du siger til dig selv:
07:21
"A slingshot or maybe a spear might work. Which would actually be better?"
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"En slangebøsse eller måske et spyd kunne virke. Hvilket ville være bedst?"
07:25
You want to know all that
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Du vil hellere vide alt det,
07:27
before the mastodons actually show up.
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før mastodonterne faktisk dukker op.
07:29
And the way the evolutions seems to have solved that problem
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Og evolutionen lader til at have løst problemet
07:32
is with a kind of division of labor.
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gennem en slags arbejdsdeling.
07:34
So the idea is that we have this early period when we're completely protected.
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Så tanken er, at vi har en tidlig periode, hvor vi er fuldstændigt beskyttet.
07:37
We don't have to do anything. All we have to do is learn.
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Vi behøver ikke at gøre noget. Alt, vi skal gøre, er at lære.
07:40
And then as adults,
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Og når vi så er voksne,
07:42
we can take all those things that we learned when we were babies and children
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kan vi tage alle de ting, vi lærte som spædbørn og børn
07:45
and actually put them to work to do things out there in the world.
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og anvende dem til at gøre ting ude i verden.
07:48
So one way of thinking about it
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Så én måde at se det på er,
07:50
is that babies and young children
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at spædbørn og småbørn
07:52
are like the research and development division of the human species.
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er som menneskehedens forsknings- og udviklingsafdeling.
07:55
So they're the protected blue sky guys
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Så de er de beskyttede fantaster,
07:58
who just have to go out and learn and have good ideas,
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som bare skal ud at lære og få gode idéer,
08:00
and we're production and marketing.
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og vi er produktion og markedsføring.
08:02
We have to take all those ideas
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Vi skal tage alle de idéer,
08:04
that we learned when we were children
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som vi lærte, da vi var børn,
08:06
and actually put them to use.
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og faktisk anvende dem.
08:08
Another way of thinking about it
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En anden måde at se det på er
08:10
is instead of thinking of babies and children
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i stedet for at tænke på spædbørn og børn
08:12
as being like defective grownups,
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som ufuldstændige voksne,
08:14
we should think about them
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burde vi tænke på dem
08:16
as being a different developmental stage of the same species --
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som om de er på et andet udviklingsstadie indenfor samme art --
08:18
kind of like caterpillars and butterflies --
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lidt ligesom larver og sommerfugle --
08:21
except that they're actually the brilliant butterflies
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bortset fra, at de er de strålende sommerfugle,
08:23
who are flitting around the garden and exploring,
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som flagrer rundt i haven på udforskning,
08:26
and we're the caterpillars
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og vi er larverne,
08:28
who are inching along our narrow, grownup, adult path.
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som kryber hen ad vores snævre, voksne sti.
08:31
If this is true, if these babies are designed to learn --
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Hvis det er sandt, hvis disse børn er skabt til at lære --
08:34
and this evolutionary story would say children are for learning,
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og udviklingshistorien synes at sige, at børn er til for at lære,
08:37
that's what they're for --
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det er, hvad de er til for --
08:39
we might expect
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så kan vi antage,
08:41
that they would have really powerful learning mechanisms.
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at de burde have meget kraftfulde læringsmekanismer.
08:43
And in fact, the baby's brain
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Og faktisk ser det ud til,
08:46
seems to be the most powerful learning computer
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at spædbarnets hjerne er den mest kraftfulde indlæringscomputer
08:48
on the planet.
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på planeten.
08:50
But real computers are actually getting to be a lot better.
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Men rigtige computere bliver faktisk bedre og bedre.
08:53
And there's been a revolution
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Og der har være en revolution
08:55
in our understanding of machine learning recently.
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indenfor vores forståelse af maskinlæring for nylig.
08:57
And it all depends on the ideas of this guy,
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Og det afhænger alt sammen af denne mands idéer,
09:00
the Reverend Thomas Bayes,
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pastor Thomas Bayes,
09:02
who was a statistician and mathematician in the 18th century.
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som var statistiker og matematiker i det 18. århundrede.
09:05
And essentially what Bayes did
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Hovedsageligt gjorde Bayes det,
09:08
was to provide a mathematical way
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at han leverede en matematisk metode
09:10
using probability theory
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ved hjælp af sandsynlighedsregning
09:12
to characterize, describe,
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som kunne karakterisere, beskrive,
09:14
the way that scientists find out about the world.
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hvordan forskere undersøger verden.
09:16
So what scientists do
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Så forskere
09:18
is they have a hypothesis that they think might be likely to start with.
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har en hypotese, som de mener kunne være et sandsynligt udgangspunkt.
09:21
They go out and test it against the evidence.
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Det tester de så mod beviserne.
09:23
The evidence makes them change that hypothesis.
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Beviserne får dem til at ændre hypotesen.
09:25
Then they test that new hypothesis
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Så tester de den nye hypotese,
09:27
and so on and so forth.
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og så videre.
09:29
And what Bayes showed was a mathematical way that you could do that.
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Og Bayes fremsatte en matematisk metode til at gøre det.
09:32
And that mathematics is at the core
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Og den matematik er central
09:34
of the best machine learning programs that we have now.
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for de bedste maskinlæringsprogrammer, vi har nu.
09:36
And some 10 years ago,
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Og for omtrent 10 år siden
09:38
I suggested that babies might be doing the same thing.
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foreslog jeg, at spædbørn måske gør det samme.
09:42
So if you want to know what's going on
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Så hvis du vil vide, hvad der sker
09:44
underneath those beautiful brown eyes,
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bag de smukke, brune øjne,
09:46
I think it actually looks something like this.
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tror jeg faktisk, det ser nogenlunde sådan ud.
09:48
This is Reverend Bayes's notebook.
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Dette er pastor Bayes' notesbog.
09:50
So I think those babies are actually making complicated calculations
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Så jeg tror, de børn faktisk laver komplicerede udregninger
09:53
with conditional probabilities that they're revising
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med betingede sandsynligheder, som de reviderer
09:56
to figure out how the world works.
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for at finde ud af, hvordan verden hænger sammen.
09:58
All right, now that might seem like an even taller order to actually demonstrate.
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Det virker nok som en endnu sværere ting at påvise.
10:02
Because after all, if you ask even grownups about statistics,
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For hvis du spørger selv voksne om statistikker,
10:04
they look extremely stupid.
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ser de temmelig dumme ud.
10:06
How could it be that children are doing statistics?
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Hvordan skulle det være muligt, at børn beregner statistikker?
10:09
So to test this we used a machine that we have
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Så for at teste dette, brugte vi en maskine, som vi har,
10:11
called the Blicket Detector.
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som hedder Blicket-detektoren.
10:13
This is a box that lights up and plays music
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Det er en kasse, som lyser og spiller musik,
10:15
when you put some things on it and not others.
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når du putter visse ting på den, og ikke andre.
10:18
And using this very simple machine,
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Og med denne meget simple maskine,
10:20
my lab and others have done dozens of studies
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har mit laboratorium og andre udført snesevis af forsøg,
10:22
showing just how good babies are
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som viser, præcis hvor gode børn er
10:24
at learning about the world.
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til at lære om verden.
10:26
Let me mention just one
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Lad mig nævne bare et,
10:28
that we did with Tumar Kushner, my student.
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som vi foretog med Tumar Kushner, min elev.
10:30
If I showed you this detector,
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Hvis jeg viste dig denne detektor,
10:32
you would be likely to think to begin with
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ville du som udgangspunkt sandsynligvis tænke,
10:34
that the way to make the detector go
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at man får detektoren til at virke
10:36
would be to put a block on top of the detector.
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ved at sætte en klods ovenpå den.
10:39
But actually, this detector
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Men faktisk virker denne detektor
10:41
works in a bit of a strange way.
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på en lidt mærkelig måde.
10:43
Because if you wave a block over the top of the detector,
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For hvis du vifter med en klods ovenover detektoren,
10:46
something you wouldn't ever think of to begin with,
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noget, du slet ikke ville finde på til at begynde med,
10:49
the detector will actually activate two out of three times.
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bliver detektoren faktisk aktiveret to ud af tre gange.
10:52
Whereas, if you do the likely thing, put the block on the detector,
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Hvorimod hvis du gør det sandsynlige, sætter klodsen på detektoren,
10:55
it will only activate two out of six times.
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aktiveres den kun to ud af seks gange.
10:59
So the unlikely hypothesis
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Så den usandsynlige hypotese
11:01
actually has stronger evidence.
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har faktisk stærkere beviser.
11:03
It looks as if the waving
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Det ser ud til, at det at vifte
11:05
is a more effective strategy than the other strategy.
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er en mere effektiv strategi, end den anden strategi.
11:07
So we did just this; we gave four year-olds this pattern of evidence,
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Så vi gjorde simpelthen således: Vi gav fireårige dette bevismønster,
11:10
and we just asked them to make it go.
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og bad dem få den til at virke.
11:12
And sure enough, the four year-olds used the evidence
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Og ganske rigtigt brugte de fireårige beviset
11:15
to wave the object on top of the detector.
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til at vifte med objektet ovenover detektoren.
11:18
Now there are two things that are really interesting about this.
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Der er to ting ved dette, som er meget interessante.
11:21
The first one is, again, remember, these are four year-olds.
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Den første er -- igen, husk på, at dette er fireårige.
11:24
They're just learning how to count.
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De har lige lært at tælle.
11:26
But unconsciously,
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Men underbevidst
11:28
they're doing these quite complicated calculations
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udfører de disse ganske komplicerede udregninger,
11:30
that will give them a conditional probability measure.
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som vil give dem en betinget sandsynligheds-målestok.
11:33
And the other interesting thing
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Og den anden interessante ting er,
11:35
is that they're using that evidence
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at de bruger dette bevis
11:37
to get to an idea, get to a hypothesis about the world,
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til at få en idé, få en hypotese om verden,
11:40
that seems very unlikely to begin with.
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som virker meget usandsynlig til at begynde med.
11:43
And in studies we've just been doing in my lab, similar studies,
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Og i lignende forsøg, som vi lige har udført i mit laboratorium,
11:46
we've show that four year-olds are actually better
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har vi påvist, at fireårige faktisk er bedre
11:48
at finding out an unlikely hypothesis
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til at nå frem til en usandsynlig hypotese,
11:51
than adults are when we give them exactly the same task.
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end voksne, når vi giver dem præcis samme opgave.
11:54
So in these circumstances,
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Så under disse omstændigheder,
11:56
the children are using statistics to find out about the world,
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bruger børn statistikker til at undersøge verden.
11:59
but after all, scientists also do experiments,
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Men forskere eksperimenterer jo også,
12:02
and we wanted to see if children are doing experiments.
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og vi ville se, om børn også eksperimenterer.
12:05
When children do experiments we call it "getting into everything"
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Når børn eksperimenterer, kalder vi det "at blive opslugt"
12:08
or else "playing."
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eller "at lege".
12:10
And there's been a bunch of interesting studies recently
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Og der er dukket en masse interessante undersøgelser op for nylig,
12:13
that have shown this playing around
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som har påvist, at denne "leg"
12:16
is really a kind of experimental research program.
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faktisk er en slags eksperimentel forskning.
12:18
Here's one from Cristine Legare's lab.
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Her er en fra Cristine Legares laboratorium.
12:21
What Cristine did was use our Blicket Detectors.
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Cristine brugte vores Blicket-detektorer.
12:24
And what she did was show children
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Og hun viste børnene,
12:26
that yellow ones made it go and red ones didn't,
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at de gule fik den til at virke, og ikke de røde,
12:28
and then she showed them an anomaly.
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og så viste hun dem en afvigelse.
12:31
And what you'll see
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Og det, vi ser,
12:33
is that this little boy will go through five hypotheses
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er, at denne lille dreng gennemgår fem hypoteser
12:36
in the space of two minutes.
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på to minutter.
12:39
(Video) Boy: How about this?
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(Video): Dreng: Hvad med sådan?
12:43
Same as the other side.
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Det samme som den anden side.
12:46
Alison Gopnik: Okay, so his first hypothesis has just been falsified.
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Alison Gopnik: Okay, så hans første hypotese er lige blevet afkræftet.
12:55
(Laughter)
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Dreng: Ingenting! (Latter)
12:57
Boy: This one lighted up, and this one nothing.
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Den her lyste, og den her ingenting.
13:00
AG: Okay, he's got his experimental notebook out.
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AG: Okay, han har sin notesbog fremme.
13:06
Boy: What's making this light up.
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Dreng: Hvad får den her til at lyse?
13:11
(Laughter)
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(Latter)
13:20
I don't know.
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Jeg ved det ikke.
13:22
AG: Every scientist will recognize that expression of despair.
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AG: Enhver forsker vil genkende det fortvivlede udtryk.
13:26
(Laughter)
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(Latter)
13:29
Boy: Oh, it's because this needs to be like this,
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Dreng: Åh, det er fordi, denne her skal være sådan her,
13:35
and this needs to be like this.
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og denne her skal være sådan her.
13:37
AG: Okay, hypothesis two.
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AG: Okay, anden hypotese.
13:40
Boy: That's why.
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Dreng: Det er derfor.
13:42
Oh.
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Åh.
13:44
(Laughter)
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(Latter)
13:49
AG: Now this is his next idea.
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AG: Dette er hans næste idé.
13:51
He told the experimenter to do this,
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Han bad forsøgslederen gøre dette,
13:53
to try putting it out onto the other location.
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at prøve at sætte den på den anden plads.
13:57
Not working either.
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Det virker heller ikke.
14:02
Boy: Oh, because the light goes only to here,
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Dreng: Åh, fordi lyset virker kun her,
14:06
not here.
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ikke her.
14:09
Oh, the bottom of this box
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Åh, bunden af den her kasse
14:12
has electricity in here,
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har elektricitet herinde,
14:14
but this doesn't have electricity.
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men den her har ikke elektricitet.
14:16
AG: Okay, that's a fourth hypothesis.
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AG: Okay, det er en fjerde hypotese.
14:18
Boy: It's lighting up.
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Dreng: Den lyser!
14:20
So when you put four.
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Så når du putter fire --
14:26
So you put four on this one to make it light up
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Så du putter fire på den her for at den lyser
14:29
and two on this one to make it light up.
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og to på den her for at den lyser.
14:31
AG: Okay,there's his fifth hypothesis.
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AG: Okay, der er hans femte hypotese.
14:33
Now that is a particularly --
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Det er en særligt --
14:36
that is a particularly adorable and articulate little boy,
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det er en særligt bedårende og veltalende lille dreng,
14:39
but what Cristine discovered is this is actually quite typical.
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men Cristine opdagede, at det faktisk er temmelig typisk.
14:42
If you look at the way children play, when you ask them to explain something,
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Hvis du ser på, hvordan børn leger, når du beder dem forklare noget,
14:45
what they really do is do a series of experiments.
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foretager de i virkeligheden en række eksperimenter.
14:48
This is actually pretty typical of four year-olds.
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Det er faktisk meget typisk for fireårige.
14:51
Well, what's it like to be this kind of creature?
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Men hvordan er det så at være sådan et væsen?
14:54
What's it like to be one of these brilliant butterflies
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Hvordan er det at være en af de strålende sommerfugle,
14:57
who can test five hypotheses in two minutes?
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som kan afprøve fem hypoteser på to minutter?
15:00
Well, if you go back to those psychologists and philosophers,
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Jo, hvis man vender tilbage til psykologerne og filosofferne,
15:03
a lot of them have said
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så har mange af dem sagt,
15:05
that babies and young children were barely conscious
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at spædbørn og småbørn knapt var bevidste,
15:07
if they were conscious at all.
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hvis de overhovedet var bevidste.
15:09
And I think just the opposite is true.
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Jeg tror, det stik modsatte er sandt.
15:11
I think babies and children are actually more conscious than we are as adults.
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Jeg tror, at spædbørn og børn faktisk er mere bevidste, end vi er som voksne.
15:14
Now here's what we know about how adult consciousness works.
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Her er, hvad vi ved om, hvordan voksnes bevidsthed fungerer.
15:17
And adults' attention and consciousness
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Og voksnes opmærksomhed og bevidsthed
15:19
look kind of like a spotlight.
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ligner lidt et spotlys.
15:21
So what happens for adults
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Det, der sker for voksne, er,
15:23
is we decide that something's relevant or important,
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at vi beslutter, at noget er relevant eller vigtigt,
15:25
we should pay attention to it.
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at vi bør være opmærksomme på det.
15:27
Our consciousness of that thing that we're attending to
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Vores bevidsthed omkring den ting, som vi er opmærksomme på,
15:29
becomes extremely bright and vivid,
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bliver særdeles klar og levende,
15:32
and everything else sort of goes dark.
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og alt andet bliver på en måde mørkt.
15:34
And we even know something about the way the brain does this.
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Og vi ved endda noget om, hvordan hjernen gør dette.
15:37
So what happens when we pay attention
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Det, der sker, når vi er opmærksomme, er,
15:39
is that the prefrontal cortex, the sort of executive part of our brains,
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at den præfrontale cortex, den administrerende del af hjernen,
15:42
sends a signal
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sender et signal,
15:44
that makes a little part of our brain much more flexible,
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som gør en lille smule af hjernen meget mere fleksibel,
15:46
more plastic, better at learning,
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mere plastisk, bedre til indlæring,
15:48
and shuts down activity
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og lukker for aktivitet
15:50
in all the rest of our brains.
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i hele resten af hjernen.
15:52
So we have a very focused, purpose-driven kind of attention.
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Så vi har en meget fokuseret, formålsdreven form for opmærksomhed.
15:56
If we look at babies and young children,
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Hvis vi ser på spædbørn og småbørn,
15:58
we see something very different.
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ser vi noget ganske andet.
16:00
I think babies and young children
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Jeg tror, at spædbørn og småbørn
16:02
seem to have more of a lantern of consciousness
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nærmere har en bevidstheds-lanterne
16:04
than a spotlight of consciousness.
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frem for et bevidstheds-spotlys.
16:06
So babies and young children are very bad
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Spædbørn og småbørn er meget dårlige
16:09
at narrowing down to just one thing.
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til at indsnævre sig til en enkelt ting.
16:12
But they're very good at taking in lots of information
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Men de er meget gode til at modtage megen information
16:15
from lots of different sources at once.
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fra mange forskellige kilder på en gang.
16:17
And if you actually look in their brains,
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Og hvis du faktisk ser på deres hjerner,
16:19
you see that they're flooded with these neurotransmitters
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vil du se, at de er overstrømmet af signalstoffer,
16:22
that are really good at inducing learning and plasticity,
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som er meget gode til at tilskynde læring og plasticitet,
16:24
and the inhibitory parts haven't come on yet.
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og den hæmmende del er ikke slået til endnu.
16:27
So when we say that babies and young children
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Så når vi siger, at spædbørn og småbørn
16:29
are bad at paying attention,
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er uopmærksomme,
16:31
what we really mean is that they're bad at not paying attention.
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mener vi i virkeligheden, at de er dårlige til ikke at være opmærksomme.
16:35
So they're bad at getting rid
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De er dårlige til at slippe
16:37
of all the interesting things that could tell them something
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alle de spændende ting, som kunne fortælle dem noget,
16:39
and just looking at the thing that's important.
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og fokusere på det, som er vigtigt.
16:41
That's the kind of attention, the kind of consciousness,
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Det er den slags opmærksomhed og bevidsthed,
16:44
that we might expect
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som vi kan forvente
16:46
from those butterflies who are designed to learn.
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af de sommerfugle, som er skabt til at lære.
16:48
Well if we want to think about a way
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Hvis vi kunne tænke os
16:50
of getting a taste of that kind of baby consciousness as adults,
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en smagsprøve på den slags spædbarnsbevidsthed som voksne,
16:54
I think the best thing is think about cases
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tror jeg, det er bedst at forestille sig de tilfælde,
16:56
where we're put in a new situation that we've never been in before --
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hvor vi er i en ny situation, som vi aldrig har været i før --
16:59
when we fall in love with someone new,
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når vi forelsker os i en ny person,
17:01
or when we're in a new city for the first time.
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eller når vi er i en ny by for første gang.
17:04
And what happens then is not that our consciousness contracts,
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Det, der så sker, er ikke, at vores bevidsthed trækker sig sammen,
17:06
it expands,
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den udvider sig,
17:08
so that those three days in Paris
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så de tre dage i Paris
17:10
seem to be more full of consciousness and experience
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virker mere fulde af bevidsthed og oplevelser,
17:12
than all the months of being
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end alle de måneder, hvor man var
17:14
a walking, talking, faculty meeting-attending zombie back home.
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en gående, talende, fakultetsmøde-deltagende zombie derhjemme.
17:18
And by the way, that coffee,
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Og for resten, den kaffe,
17:20
that wonderful coffee you've been drinking downstairs,
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den vidunderlige kaffe, som I har drukket nedenunder,
17:22
actually mimics the effect
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efterligner faktisk effekten
17:24
of those baby neurotransmitters.
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af de spædbarns-signalstoffer.
17:26
So what's it like to be a baby?
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Så hvordan er det at være et spædbarn?
17:28
It's like being in love
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Det er som at være forelsket
17:30
in Paris for the first time
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i Paris for første gang
17:32
after you've had three double-espressos.
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efter du har drukket tre dobbelte espressoer.
17:34
(Laughter)
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(Latter)
17:37
That's a fantastic way to be,
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Det er en fantastisk tilstand,
17:39
but it does tend to leave you waking up crying at three o'clock in the morning.
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men du får tendens til at vågne grædende klokken tre om morgenen.
17:43
(Laughter)
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(Latter)
17:46
Now it's good to be a grownup.
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Men det er godt at være voksen.
17:48
I don't want to say too much about how wonderful babies are.
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Jeg vil ikke sige for meget om, hvor fantastiske spædbørn er.
17:50
It's good to be a grownup.
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Det er godt at være voksen.
17:52
We can do things like tie our shoelaces and cross the street by ourselves.
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Vi kan gøre ting såsom at binde vores snørebånd og gå over gaden alene.
17:55
And it makes sense that we put a lot of effort
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Og det giver mening, at vi gør en stor indsats
17:57
into making babies think like adults do.
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for at få spædbørn til at tænke som voksne.
18:01
But if what we want is to be like those butterflies,
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Men hvis vi vil være som de sommerfugle,
18:04
to have open-mindedness, open learning,
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fordomsfri, åbne for indlæring,
18:07
imagination, creativity, innovation,
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med fantasi, kreativitet, innovation,
18:09
maybe at least some of the time
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måske i hvert fald noget af tiden,
18:11
we should be getting the adults
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bør vi få de voksne
18:13
to start thinking more like children.
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til at tænke mere som børn.
18:15
(Applause)
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(Bifald)
ABOUT THE SPEAKER
Alison Gopnik - Child development psychologistAlison Gopnik takes us into the fascinating minds of babies and children, and shows us how much we understand before we even realize we do.
Why you should listen
What’s it really like to see through the eyes of a child? Are babies and young children just empty, irrational vessels to be formed into little adults, until they become the perfect images of ourselves? On the contrary, argues Alison Gopnik, professor of psychology and philosophy at the University of California at Berkeley.
The author of The Philosophical Baby, The Scientist in the Crib and other influential books on cognitive development, Gopnik presents evidence that babies and children are conscious of far more than we give them credit for, as they engage every sense and spend every waking moment discovering, filing away, analyzing and acting on information about how the world works. Gopnik’s work draws on psychological, neuroscientific, and philosophical developments in child development research to understand how the human mind learns, how and why we love, our ability to innovate, as well as giving us a deeper appreciation for the role of parenthood.
She says: "What's it like to be a baby? Being in love in Paris for the first time after you've had 3 double espressos."
Alison Gopnik | Speaker | TED.com