TEDGlobal 2011
Alison Gopnik: What do babies think?
Elison Gopnik: O čemu bebe razmišljaju?
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"Bebe i mala deca su kao neka Istraživačka sekcija ljudske vrste" kaže psiholog Elison Gopnik. Ona proučava sofisticirano i inteligentno prikupljanje informacija i donošenje odluka koje bebe zapravo izvode dok se igraju.
Alison Gopnik - Child development psychologist
Alison Gopnik takes us into the fascinating minds of babies and children, and shows us how much we understand before we even realize we do. Full bio
Alison Gopnik takes us into the fascinating minds of babies and children, and shows us how much we understand before we even realize we do. Full bio
Double-click the English transcript below to play the video.
00:15
What is going on
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Šta se dešava
00:17
in this baby's mind?
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u glavi ove bebe?
00:19
If you'd asked people this 30 years ago,
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Da ste ovo pitali ljude pre 30 godina
00:21
most people, including psychologists,
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većina, uključujući i psihologe,
00:23
would have said that this baby was irrational,
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bi odgovorila da je ova beba iracionalna,
00:26
illogical, egocentric --
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ne razmišlja logično, egocentrična je
00:28
that he couldn't take the perspective of another person
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da ta beba ne može da shvati perspektivu neke druge osobe
00:30
or understand cause and effect.
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ili da razume uzrok i posledicu.
00:32
In the last 20 years,
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U poslednjih 20 godina,
00:34
developmental science has completely overturned that picture.
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nauka o razviću je potpuno preokrenula ovakvu predstavu.
00:37
So in some ways,
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Tako da, na neki način,
00:39
we think that this baby's thinking
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mi sada smatramo da način razmišljanja ove bebe
00:41
is like the thinking of the most brilliant scientists.
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liči na to kako razmišljaju najbriljantniji naučnici.
00:45
Let me give you just one example of this.
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Evo da vam navedem samo jedan primer.
00:47
One thing that this baby could be thinking about,
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Jedna od stvari o kojoj ova beba možda razmišlja,
00:50
that could be going on in his mind,
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nešto što joj pada na pamet,
00:52
is trying to figure out
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je da se pita o čemu razmišlja ova druga beba,
00:54
what's going on in the mind of that other baby.
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šta to pada na pamet toj drugoj bebi.
00:57
After all, one of the things that's hardest for all of us to do
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Na kraju krajeva, svima nama je jako teško
01:00
is to figure out what other people are thinking and feeling.
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da procenimo o čemu drugi ljudi misle i šta osećaju.
01:03
And maybe the hardest thing of all
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A možda je najteže od svega
01:05
is to figure out that what other people think and feel
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shvatiti da ono što drugi ljudi misle i osećaju
01:08
isn't actually exactly like what we think and feel.
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u stvari nije potpuno identično onome što mi mislimo i osećamo.
01:10
Anyone who's followed politics can testify
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Svako ko prati politiku može da potvrdi
01:12
to how hard that is for some people to get.
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da je nekim ljudima vrlo teško da ovo prihvate.
01:15
We wanted to know
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Mi smo želeli da vidimo
01:17
if babies and young children
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da li bebe i mala deca
01:19
could understand this really profound thing about other people.
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mogu da shvate ovu vrlo dubokoumnu činjenicu o drugim ljudima.
01:22
Now the question is: How could we ask them?
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Sada se postavlja pitanje: Kako da to pitamo bebe?
01:24
Babies, after all, can't talk,
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Jer bebe, ipak, ne mogu da govore,
01:26
and if you ask a three year-old
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i ako pitate dete od tri godine
01:28
to tell you what he thinks,
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da vam kaže o čemu razmišlja,
01:30
what you'll get is a beautiful stream of consciousness monologue
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dobićete predivan monolog - bujicu toka svesti
01:33
about ponies and birthdays and things like that.
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o ponijima i rođendanima i takvim stvarima.
01:36
So how do we actually ask them the question?
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Ali kako da im, u stvari, postavimo naše pitanje?
01:39
Well it turns out that the secret was broccoli.
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Pa, ispostavilo se da je tajna u brokoliju.
01:42
What we did -- Betty Rapacholi, who was one of my students, and I --
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Ono što smo mi, Beti Rapakoli, jedna od mojih studentkinja, i ja uradile --
01:46
was actually to give the babies two bowls of food:
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bilo je da bebama pokažemo dve činije sa hranom:
01:49
one bowl of raw broccoli
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jedna činija sa presnim brokolijem
01:51
and one bowl of delicious goldfish crackers.
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i jedna činija sa ukusnim krekerima u obliku zlatnih ribica.
01:54
Now all of the babies, even in Berkley,
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E sad, sve bebe, čak i u Berkliju,
01:57
like the crackers and don't like the raw broccoli.
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vole krekere, a ne vole presan brokoli.
02:00
(Laughter)
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(smeh)
02:02
But then what Betty did
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Ali tada je Beti uradila sledeće:
02:04
was to take a little taste of food from each bowl.
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uzela je mali zalogaj hrane iz svake činije.
02:07
And she would act as if she liked it or she didn't.
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I onda je pokazala da li joj se to sviđa ili ne.
02:09
So half the time, she acted
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I tako je, prvo, pokazivala
02:11
as if she liked the crackers and didn't like the broccoli --
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da joj se sviđaju krekeri, a da joj se brokoli ne sviđa --
02:13
just like a baby and any other sane person.
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baš kao i bebi ili bilo kojoj drugoj normalnoj osobi.
02:16
But half the time,
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Ali, zatim je
02:18
what she would do is take a little bit of the broccoli
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uzela komadić brokolija
02:20
and go, "Mmmmm, broccoli.
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i uradila sledeće: "Mmmmm, brokoli.
02:23
I tasted the broccoli. Mmmmm."
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Pojela sam brokoli. Mmmmm."
02:26
And then she would take a little bit of the crackers,
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A onda bi uzela malo krekera,
02:28
and she'd go, "Eww, yuck, crackers.
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i napravila bi izraz lica "Fuj, bljak, krekeri.
02:32
I tasted the crackers. Eww, yuck."
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Pojela sam krekere. Fuuj, bljak."
02:35
So she'd act as if what she wanted
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Znači, ponašala se kao da je ono što ona želi
02:37
was just the opposite of what the babies wanted.
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potpuno suprotno od onoga što su bebe želele.
02:40
We did this with 15 and 18 month-old babies.
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Uradile smo ovo sa bebama od 15 i 18 meseci.
02:42
And then she would simply put her hand out and say,
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Zatim bi Beti ispružila ruku i rekla,
02:45
"Can you give me some?"
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Hoćeš li da mi daš malo?
02:47
So the question is: What would the baby give her,
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Znači pitanje je: Šta će joj beba dati,
02:49
what they liked or what she liked?
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ono što se sviđa bebi ili ono što se sviđa Beti?
02:51
And the remarkable thing was that 18 month-old babies,
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I zadivljujuća stvar je bila da su bebe od 18 meseci,
02:54
just barely walking and talking,
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koje jedva da hodaju i govore,
02:56
would give her the crackers if she liked the crackers,
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davale Beti krekere ako su joj se svideli krekeri,
02:59
but they would give her the broccoli if she liked the broccoli.
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a brokoli, ako joj se sviđao brokoli.
03:02
On the other hand,
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Sa druge strane,
03:04
15 month-olds would stare at her for a long time
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bebe od 15 meseci bi samo vrlo dugo gledale u nju
03:06
if she acted as if she liked the broccoli,
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ako bi se ponašala kao da joj se brokoli baš sviđa,
03:08
like they couldn't figure this out.
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kao da to nisu mogle baš da shvate.
03:11
But then after they stared for a long time,
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I onda, pošto su dugo gledale u Beti,
03:13
they would just give her the crackers,
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ipak bi joj dale krekere,
03:15
what they thought everybody must like.
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jer su smatrale da to svako voli.
03:17
So there are two really remarkable things about this.
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Dakle, imamo dva zadivljujuća zaključka u vezi sa ovim.
03:20
The first one is that these little 18 month-old babies
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Prvi je da su ove male bebe od 18 meseci
03:23
have already discovered
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već otkrile
03:25
this really profound fact about human nature,
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ovu vrlo dubokoumnu činjenicu o ljudskoj prirodi,
03:27
that we don't always want the same thing.
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da mi ne želimo uvek iste stvari.
03:29
And what's more, they felt that they should actually do things
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I štaviše, te bebe su osetile da zaista treba da urade nešto
03:31
to help other people get what they wanted.
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što će pomoći drugim ljudima da dobiju ono što žele.
03:34
Even more remarkably though,
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Ono što je još veće iznenađenje je
03:36
the fact that 15 month-olds didn't do this
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činjenica da bebe od 15 meseci nisu to radile
03:39
suggests that these 18 month-olds had learned
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što ukazuje da su bebe od 18 meseci naučile
03:42
this deep, profound fact about human nature
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ovu duboko ukorenjenu činjenicu o ljudskoj prirodi
03:45
in the three months from when they were 15 months old.
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tokom tri meseca otkad su imale 15 meseci.
03:48
So children both know more and learn more
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Dakle, deca i znaju više i uče više
03:50
than we ever would have thought.
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nego što smo ikada i pretpostavljali.
03:52
And this is just one of hundreds and hundreds of studies over the last 20 years
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I ovo je samo jedno od stotina i stotina istraživanja tokom poslednjih 20 godina
03:56
that's actually demonstrated it.
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koja su to zaista i pokazala.
03:58
The question you might ask though is:
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Pitanje koje biste mogli da postavite je:
04:00
Why do children learn so much?
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Zašto deca toliko mnogo uče?
04:03
And how is it possible for them to learn so much
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I šta im omogućava da tako mnogo nauče
04:05
in such a short time?
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za tako kratko vreme?
04:07
I mean, after all, if you look at babies superficially,
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Mislim, zaista, ako bebe gledate površno,
04:09
they seem pretty useless.
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izgledaju prilično beskorisno.
04:11
And actually in many ways, they're worse than useless,
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I zapravo, na razne načine, one su i više nego beskorisne,
04:14
because we have to put so much time and energy
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jer mi moramo da uložimo mnogo vremena i energije
04:16
into just keeping them alive.
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samo da bismo ih održali u životu.
04:18
But if we turn to evolution
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Ali, ako se obratimo evoluciji
04:20
for an answer to this puzzle
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za odgovor na ovu zagonetku
04:22
of why we spend so much time
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zašto provodimo toliko vremena
04:24
taking care of useless babies,
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brinući se o beskorisnim bebama,
04:27
it turns out that there's actually an answer.
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ispostavlja se da, zapravo, postoji odgovor.
04:30
If we look across many, many different species of animals,
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Ako pogledamo mnoge, mnoge različite vrste životinja,
04:33
not just us primates,
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ne samo nas primate,
04:35
but also including other mammals, birds,
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već takođe i druge sisare, ptice,
04:37
even marsupials
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čak i torbare
04:39
like kangaroos and wombats,
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kao što su kenguri i vombati,
04:41
it turns out that there's a relationship
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pokazuje se da postoji odnos
04:43
between how long a childhood a species has
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između toga koliko dugo detinjstvo traje kod neke vrste
04:47
and how big their brains are compared to their bodies
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i toga koliki je njihov mozak u poređenju sa telom
04:51
and how smart and flexible they are.
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i koliko su pametne i prilagodljive.
04:53
And sort of the posterbirds for this idea are the birds up there.
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I neka vrsta primera za ovu ideju su baš ptice tamo gore.
04:56
On one side
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S jedne strane
04:58
is a New Caledonian crow.
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je vrana iz Nove Kaledonije.
05:00
And crows and other corvidae, ravens, rooks and so forth,
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A vrane i svi drugi pripadnici familije vrana, gavrani, gačci i tako dalje
05:03
are incredibly smart birds.
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su neverovatno pametne ptice.
05:05
They're as smart as chimpanzees in some respects.
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U nekim oblastima su podjednako pametni kao šimpanze.
05:08
And this is a bird on the cover of science
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I ovo je ptica sa naslovne strane časopisa "Science"
05:10
who's learned how to use a tool to get food.
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koja je naučila kako da koristi alatku da stigne do hrane.
05:13
On the other hand,
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Sa druge strane,
05:15
we have our friend the domestic chicken.
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imamo našu prijateljicu, domaću kokošku.
05:17
And chickens and ducks and geese and turkeys
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Kokoške, patke, guske i ćurke
05:20
are basically as dumb as dumps.
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su praktično rečeno, jako glupave.
05:22
So they're very, very good at pecking for grain,
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Znači, one su jako, jako dobre u kljucanju zrnevlja,
05:25
and they're not much good at doing anything else.
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ali nisu baš dobre ni u čemu više pored toga.
05:28
Well it turns out that the babies,
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E pa, pokazalo se da su ptići,
05:30
the New Caledonian crow babies, are fledglings.
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ptići vrane iz Nove Kaledonije, goluždravi i nesposobni.
05:32
They depend on their moms
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Oni zavise od majke
05:34
to drop worms in their little open mouths
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da im ubacuje crviće u njihova mala otvorena usta
05:37
for as long as two years,
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i to čak tokom dve godine,
05:39
which is a really long time in the life of a bird.
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što je vrlo dugo vreme u životnom veku ptice.
05:41
Whereas the chickens are actually mature
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Dok pilići, zapravo, postaju zreli
05:43
within a couple of months.
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u roku od nekoliko meseci.
05:45
So childhood is the reason
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Prema tome, detinjstvo je razlog
05:48
why the crows end up on the cover of Science
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zašto vrane završe na naslovnoj strani časopisa "Science"
05:50
and the chickens end up in the soup pot.
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a kokoške završe u loncu za supu.
05:52
There's something about that long childhood
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Postoji nešto u vezi sa tim dugačkim detinjstvom
05:55
that seems to be connected
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što je, izgleda, povezano
05:57
to knowledge and learning.
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sa znanjem i učenjem.
05:59
Well what kind of explanation could we have for this?
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Pa, kakvo objašnjenje možemo da damo za to?
06:02
Well some animals, like the chicken,
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Pa, neke životinje, kao kokoške,
06:05
seem to be beautifully suited
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deluju vrlo lepo prilagođene
06:07
to doing just one thing very well.
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da rade dobro samo jednu stvar.
06:09
So they seem to be beautifully suited
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Tako kokoške deluju vrlo lepo prilagođene
06:12
to pecking grain in one environment.
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da kljucaju zrnevlje u jednom tipu okruženja.
06:14
Other creatures, like the crows,
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Druga stvorenja, kao vrane,
06:16
aren't very good at doing anything in particular,
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nemaju neku specijalnost u kojoj su jako dobra,
06:18
but they're extremely good
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ali su ekstremno dobra
06:20
at learning about laws of different environments.
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u učenju zakonitosti koje vladaju u različitim okruženjima
06:22
And of course, we human beings
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I naravno, mi ljudska bića
06:24
are way out on the end of the distribution like the crows.
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smo na krajnjim granicama krive distribucije, kao vrane.
06:27
We have bigger brains relative to our bodies
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Mi imamo veći mozak u poređenju sa telom
06:29
by far than any other animal.
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nego bilo koja druga životninja.
06:31
We're smarter, we're more flexible,
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Mi smo pametniji, prilagodljiviji,
06:33
we can learn more,
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možemo više da naučimo,
06:35
we survive in more different environments,
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da preživimo u različitim okruženjima,
06:37
we migrated to cover the world and even go to outer space.
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mi smo migrirali širom celog sveta i čak smo otišli i u svemir.
06:40
And our babies and children are dependent on us
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I naše bebe i deca su zavisna od nas
06:43
for much longer than the babies of any other species.
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duže nego bebe bilo koje druge vrste.
06:46
My son is 23.
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Moj sin ima 23 godine.
06:48
(Laughter)
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(smeh)
06:50
And at least until they're 23,
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I bar do tog uzrasta,
06:52
we're still popping those worms
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mi im i dalje ubacujemo one crviće
06:54
into those little open mouths.
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u ta mala otvorena usta.
06:57
All right, why would we see this correlation?
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E dobro, zašto bismo mi uočili ovu korelaciju?
07:00
Well an idea is that that strategy, that learning strategy,
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Pa, ideja je da je ta strategija, takva strategija učenja,
07:04
is an extremely powerful, great strategy for getting on in the world,
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izuzetno moćna, odlična strategija za napredovanje,
07:07
but it has one big disadvantage.
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ali da ima jedan veliki nedostatak.
07:09
And that one big disadvantage
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I taj jedan veliki nedostatak
07:11
is that, until you actually do all that learning,
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je to da ste, dok vršite sve to učenje,
07:14
you're going to be helpless.
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vi zapravo bespomoćni.
07:16
So you don't want to have the mastodon charging at you
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Pa tako ne želite da neki mastodont krene u napad na vas
07:19
and be saying to yourself,
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a da vi u sebi govorite,
07:21
"A slingshot or maybe a spear might work. Which would actually be better?"
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Praćka ili možda koplje bi mogli da posluže. Šta bi od ta dva u stvari bilo bolje?
07:25
You want to know all that
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Vi želite da to sve znate
07:27
before the mastodons actually show up.
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pre nego što se mastodonti uopšte i pojave.
07:29
And the way the evolutions seems to have solved that problem
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A način na koji je evolucija izgleda rešila taj problem
07:32
is with a kind of division of labor.
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je sa nekom vrstom podele rada.
07:34
So the idea is that we have this early period when we're completely protected.
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Dakle, ideja je da mi imamo taj rani period kada smo potpuno zaštićeni.
07:37
We don't have to do anything. All we have to do is learn.
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Ne moramo ništa da radimo. Sve što treba da radimo je da učimo.
07:40
And then as adults,
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A zatim, kao odrasli,
07:42
we can take all those things that we learned when we were babies and children
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možemo da uzmemo sve te stvari koje smo naučili kad smo bili bebe i deca
07:45
and actually put them to work to do things out there in the world.
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i zaista ih upotrebimo da nešto postignemo tamo negde u svetu.
07:48
So one way of thinking about it
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Dakle, jedan način posmatranja je
07:50
is that babies and young children
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da su bebe i mala deca
07:52
are like the research and development division of the human species.
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kao sekcija za istraživanje i razvoj u okviru ljudske vrste.
07:55
So they're the protected blue sky guys
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Oni su zaštićeni i zaneseni razmišljanjem
07:58
who just have to go out and learn and have good ideas,
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i samo treba da istražuju, uče i da imaju dobre ideje,
08:00
and we're production and marketing.
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a mi smo tu za produkciju i marketing.
08:02
We have to take all those ideas
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Mi treba da uzmemo sve te ideje
08:04
that we learned when we were children
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koje smo naučili kad smo bili deca
08:06
and actually put them to use.
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i da ih zapravo praktično upotrebimo.
08:08
Another way of thinking about it
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Drugi način posmatranja je
08:10
is instead of thinking of babies and children
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da, umesto što mislimo o bebama i deci
08:12
as being like defective grownups,
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kao o defektnim odraslim jedinkama,
08:14
we should think about them
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treba da mislimo o njima
08:16
as being a different developmental stage of the same species --
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kao da su na drugom razvojnom nivou u okviru iste vrste --
08:18
kind of like caterpillars and butterflies --
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nešto kao gusenice i leptiri --
08:21
except that they're actually the brilliant butterflies
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osim što su bebe i deca zapravo briljantni leptiri
08:23
who are flitting around the garden and exploring,
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koji lepršaju kroz baštu i istražuju,
08:26
and we're the caterpillars
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a mi smo gusenice,
08:28
who are inching along our narrow, grownup, adult path.
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koje se vuku duž našeg uskog, životnog puta odrasle osobe.
08:31
If this is true, if these babies are designed to learn --
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Ako je ovo tačno, ako su ove bebe stvorene da uče --
08:34
and this evolutionary story would say children are for learning,
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a ta evoluciona priča bi rekla da deca služe za učenje,
08:37
that's what they're for --
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da je to ono zbog čega su tu --
08:39
we might expect
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mogli bismo da očekujemo
08:41
that they would have really powerful learning mechanisms.
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da bebe onda poseduju veoma moćne mehanizme za učenje.
08:43
And in fact, the baby's brain
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I u stvari, mozak bebe
08:46
seems to be the most powerful learning computer
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je, izgleda, najmoćniji kompjuter za učenje
08:48
on the planet.
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na planeti.
08:50
But real computers are actually getting to be a lot better.
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Ali pravi kompjuteri zapravo postaju mnogo bolji,
08:53
And there's been a revolution
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i u poslednje vreme je došlo do revolucije
08:55
in our understanding of machine learning recently.
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u našem shvatanju učenja kod mašina.
08:57
And it all depends on the ideas of this guy,
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I to sve zavisi od ideja ovog čoveka,
09:00
the Reverend Thomas Bayes,
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Velečasnog Tomasa Bajesa,
09:02
who was a statistician and mathematician in the 18th century.
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koji je bio statističar i matematičar u 18.veku.
09:05
And essentially what Bayes did
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I ukratko, ono što je Bajes uradio
09:08
was to provide a mathematical way
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je bilo da pronađe matematički način,
09:10
using probability theory
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koristeći teoriju verovatnoće,
09:12
to characterize, describe,
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da okarakteriše, opiše,
09:14
the way that scientists find out about the world.
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način na koji naučnici saznaju o svetu oko sebe.
09:16
So what scientists do
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Dakle, ono što naučnici rade
09:18
is they have a hypothesis that they think might be likely to start with.
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je da postavljaju hipoteze za koje misle da su verovatne
09:21
They go out and test it against the evidence.
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onda istražuju i upoređuju sa podacima,
09:23
The evidence makes them change that hypothesis.
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Podaci ih teraju da promene tu hipotezu.
09:25
Then they test that new hypothesis
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Zatim testiraju tu novu hipotezu
09:27
and so on and so forth.
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i tako dalje.
09:29
And what Bayes showed was a mathematical way that you could do that.
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I ono što je Bajes pokazao je matematički način na koji možete to da uradite.
09:32
And that mathematics is at the core
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I da je matematika u osnovi
09:34
of the best machine learning programs that we have now.
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najboljih programa za učenje kod mašina koje sada imamo.
09:36
And some 10 years ago,
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A pre nekih 10 godina,
09:38
I suggested that babies might be doing the same thing.
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ja sam predložila da bebe možda rade to isto.
09:42
So if you want to know what's going on
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Dakle, ako hoćete da znate šta se dešava
09:44
underneath those beautiful brown eyes,
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iza tih divnih braon očiju,
09:46
I think it actually looks something like this.
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ja mislim da zapravo izgleda ovako nekako.
09:48
This is Reverend Bayes's notebook.
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To je sveska Velečasnog Bajesa.
09:50
So I think those babies are actually making complicated calculations
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Prema tome, ja smatram da bebe zapravo vrše komplikovane proračune
09:53
with conditional probabilities that they're revising
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sa uslovnim verovatnoćama koje onda ispituju
09:56
to figure out how the world works.
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da bi shvatile kako svet funkcioniše.
09:58
All right, now that might seem like an even taller order to actually demonstrate.
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Dobro, to sad može izgledati kao još teži zadatak da se zapravo demonstrira.
10:02
Because after all, if you ask even grownups about statistics,
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Jer, na kraju krajeva, čak i ako odrasle pitate o statistici,
10:04
they look extremely stupid.
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oni izgledaju veoma glupavo.
10:06
How could it be that children are doing statistics?
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Kako je moguće da deca primenjuju statistiku?
10:09
So to test this we used a machine that we have
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Da bismo ovo ispitali, koristili smo mašinu koju imamo
10:11
called the Blicket Detector.
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takozvani Detektor Igračkica.
10:13
This is a box that lights up and plays music
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To je kutija koja zasvetli i svira muziku
10:15
when you put some things on it and not others.
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kada stavite neke stvari na nju, a ne neke druge.
10:18
And using this very simple machine,
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I koristeći ovu vrlo jednostavnu mašinu,
10:20
my lab and others have done dozens of studies
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moja laboratorija i drugi su uradili desetine istraživanja
10:22
showing just how good babies are
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koja pokazuju kako su bebe dobre
10:24
at learning about the world.
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u učenju o svetu oko sebe.
10:26
Let me mention just one
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Evo pomenuću samo jedno istraživanje
10:28
that we did with Tumar Kushner, my student.
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koje smo uradili moj student Tumar Kušner i ja.
10:30
If I showed you this detector,
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Ako vam pokažem ovaj detektor
10:32
you would be likely to think to begin with
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verovatno biste pomislili
10:34
that the way to make the detector go
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da je pravi način da se on pokrene, taj
10:36
would be to put a block on top of the detector.
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da se stavi kocka na vrh detektora.
10:39
But actually, this detector
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Međutim, ovaj detektor
10:41
works in a bit of a strange way.
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radi na pomalo čudan način.
10:43
Because if you wave a block over the top of the detector,
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Jer, ako mašete kockom iznad detektora,
10:46
something you wouldn't ever think of to begin with,
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što je nešto što vam uopšte ne bi ni palo na pamet,
10:49
the detector will actually activate two out of three times.
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detektor će se, u stvari, aktivirati 2 od 3 puta.
10:52
Whereas, if you do the likely thing, put the block on the detector,
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Dok, ako uradite očekivanu radnju, stavite kocku na vrh detektora,
10:55
it will only activate two out of six times.
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to će aktivirati detektor u 2 od 6 slučajeva.
10:59
So the unlikely hypothesis
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Dakle, hipoteza koja deluje malo verovatno,
11:01
actually has stronger evidence.
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zapravo daje pouzdanije rezultate.
11:03
It looks as if the waving
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Izgleda da je mahanje
11:05
is a more effective strategy than the other strategy.
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efikasnija strategija nego ona druga strategija.
11:07
So we did just this; we gave four year-olds this pattern of evidence,
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I tako smo uradili baš to; dali smo četvorogodišnjacima ovakav obrazac
11:10
and we just asked them to make it go.
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i samo smo tražili od njih da to isprobaju.
11:12
And sure enough, the four year-olds used the evidence
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I naravno, četvorogodišnjaci su to iskoristili,
11:15
to wave the object on top of the detector.
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da mašu predmetom iznad detektora.
11:18
Now there are two things that are really interesting about this.
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E sad, postoje dva vrlo interesantna zapažanja u vezi sa ovim.
11:21
The first one is, again, remember, these are four year-olds.
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Prvo je, i ponovo, setite se da su ovo deca od 4 godine.
11:24
They're just learning how to count.
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Oni tek uče da broje.
11:26
But unconsciously,
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Ali, nesvesno,
11:28
they're doing these quite complicated calculations
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oni vrše ove vrlo komplikovane proračune
11:30
that will give them a conditional probability measure.
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koji im daju meru uslovne verovatnoće.
11:33
And the other interesting thing
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A druga interesantna stvar
11:35
is that they're using that evidence
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je da oni koriste taj podatak
11:37
to get to an idea, get to a hypothesis about the world,
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da bi formirali ideju, hipotezu o svetu oko sebe
11:40
that seems very unlikely to begin with.
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koja čak deluje i malo verovatno.
11:43
And in studies we've just been doing in my lab, similar studies,
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U istraživanjima koja radimo u mojoj laboratoriji, sličnim istraživanjima,
11:46
we've show that four year-olds are actually better
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pokazali smo da su deca od 4 godine zapravo bolja
11:48
at finding out an unlikely hypothesis
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u formulisanju manje verovatnih hipoteza
11:51
than adults are when we give them exactly the same task.
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nego što su to odrasli kada im damo potpuno isti zadatak.
11:54
So in these circumstances,
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Prema tome, u ovim uslovima,
11:56
the children are using statistics to find out about the world,
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deca koriste statistiku da saznaju nešto o svetu oko sebe,
11:59
but after all, scientists also do experiments,
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a, na kraju, i naučnici takođe vrše eksperimente,
12:02
and we wanted to see if children are doing experiments.
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pa smo mi hteli da vidimo da li deca vrše eksperimente.
12:05
When children do experiments we call it "getting into everything"
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Kada deca vrše eksperimente, mi to zovemo "rade svašta"
12:08
or else "playing."
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ili samo "igraju se".
12:10
And there's been a bunch of interesting studies recently
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A postoji dosta interesantnih skorijih studija
12:13
that have shown this playing around
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koje su pokazale da je to igranje,
12:16
is really a kind of experimental research program.
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u stvari, vrsta eksperimentalnog istraživačkog programa.
12:18
Here's one from Cristine Legare's lab.
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Evo jedne studije iz laboratorije Kristine Leger
12:21
What Cristine did was use our Blicket Detectors.
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Kristina je koristila naše Detektore igračkica.
12:24
And what she did was show children
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I pokazivala je deci
12:26
that yellow ones made it go and red ones didn't,
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da žute kocke pokreću mašinu, a crvene ne,
12:28
and then she showed them an anomaly.
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a onda im je pokazala anomaliju.
12:31
And what you'll see
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I sada ćete videti,
12:33
is that this little boy will go through five hypotheses
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kako ovaj mali dečak prolazi kroz pet hipoteza
12:36
in the space of two minutes.
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tokom samo dva minuta.
12:39
(Video) Boy: How about this?
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(Video) Dečak: A ovako?
12:43
Same as the other side.
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Isto kao na drugoj strani.
12:46
Alison Gopnik: Okay, so his first hypothesis has just been falsified.
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Elison Gopnik: Okej, znači njegova prva hipoteza se upravo pokazala kao neispravna.
12:55
(Laughter)
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(smeh)
12:57
Boy: This one lighted up, and this one nothing.
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Dečak: Ova svetli, a ova druga ništa.
13:00
AG: Okay, he's got his experimental notebook out.
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EG: Okej, sad je izvadio svoju svesku za eksperimente.
13:06
Boy: What's making this light up.
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Dečak: Zbog čega ovo svetli?
13:11
(Laughter)
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(smeh)
13:20
I don't know.
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Ne znam.
13:22
AG: Every scientist will recognize that expression of despair.
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EG: Svaki naučnik će prepoznati taj izraz očajanja.
13:26
(Laughter)
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(smeh)
13:29
Boy: Oh, it's because this needs to be like this,
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Dečak: Oh, to je zato što ovo mora da bude ovako,
13:35
and this needs to be like this.
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a ovo mora da bude ovako.
13:37
AG: Okay, hypothesis two.
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EG: Okej, hipoteza broj dva.
13:40
Boy: That's why.
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Dečak: Eto zašto.
13:42
Oh.
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Oh.
13:44
(Laughter)
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(smeh)
13:49
AG: Now this is his next idea.
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EG: Ovo sad je njegova sledeća ideja.
13:51
He told the experimenter to do this,
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Rekao je eksperimentatoru da uradi ovo,
13:53
to try putting it out onto the other location.
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da proba da to stavi od gore, na drugo mesto.
13:57
Not working either.
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Ne radi ni to.
14:02
Boy: Oh, because the light goes only to here,
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Dečak: Oh, to je zato što svetlo radi samo ovde,
14:06
not here.
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a ne ovde.
14:09
Oh, the bottom of this box
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Oh, dno ove kutije
14:12
has electricity in here,
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ima struju ovde,
14:14
but this doesn't have electricity.
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ali ovo nema struju.
14:16
AG: Okay, that's a fourth hypothesis.
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EG: Okej, to je četvrta hipoteza.
14:18
Boy: It's lighting up.
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Dečak: Zasvetlelo je.
14:20
So when you put four.
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Znači kad stavite četiri.
14:26
So you put four on this one to make it light up
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Znači stavite četiri na ovu kutiju ovde da bi zasvetlelo
14:29
and two on this one to make it light up.
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i dve na ovu ovde da bi zasvetlela.
14:31
AG: Okay,there's his fifth hypothesis.
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EG: Okej, to je njegova peta hipoteza.
14:33
Now that is a particularly --
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E sad, ovo je jedan izuzetno --
14:36
that is a particularly adorable and articulate little boy,
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izuzetno sladak dečak koji se jako dobro izražava,
14:39
but what Cristine discovered is this is actually quite typical.
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ali ono što je Kristina otkrila je da je ovo zapravo sasvim tipično.
14:42
If you look at the way children play, when you ask them to explain something,
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Ako posmatrate način na koji se deca igraju, kada ih pitate da nešto objasne,
14:45
what they really do is do a series of experiments.
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ono što oni stvarno rade je serija eksperimenata.
14:48
This is actually pretty typical of four year-olds.
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To je, zapravo, prilično tipično za četvorogodišnjake.
14:51
Well, what's it like to be this kind of creature?
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Dobro, a kako je to biti ovakvo stvorenje?
14:54
What's it like to be one of these brilliant butterflies
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Kako je to biti jedan od ovih briljantnih leptira
14:57
who can test five hypotheses in two minutes?
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koji mogu da testiraju pet hipoteza za dva minuta?
15:00
Well, if you go back to those psychologists and philosophers,
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Pa, ako se vratimo onim psiholozima i filosofima,
15:03
a lot of them have said
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mnogi od njih su rekli
15:05
that babies and young children were barely conscious
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da su bebe i mala deca jedva svesna
15:07
if they were conscious at all.
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ako uopšte i poseduju svest.
15:09
And I think just the opposite is true.
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A ja mislim da je upravo obrnuto.
15:11
I think babies and children are actually more conscious than we are as adults.
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Mislim da su bebe i deca, u stvari, svesnija nego što smo mi odrasli.
15:14
Now here's what we know about how adult consciousness works.
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Evo šta znamo o tome kako radi svest kod odraslih.
15:17
And adults' attention and consciousness
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I pažnja i svesnost odraslih
15:19
look kind of like a spotlight.
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dosta podsećaju na neki usmeren snop svetla.
15:21
So what happens for adults
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Pa se tako dešava kod odraslih,
15:23
is we decide that something's relevant or important,
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da ako odlučimo da je nešto relevantno ili važno,
15:25
we should pay attention to it.
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onda treba da obratimo pažnju na to.
15:27
Our consciousness of that thing that we're attending to
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Naša svest o toj stvari kojom se bavimo
15:29
becomes extremely bright and vivid,
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postaje izuzetno sjajna i jasna,
15:32
and everything else sort of goes dark.
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a sve ostalo kao da potamni.
15:34
And we even know something about the way the brain does this.
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I čak znamo ponešto o načinu na koji mozak to radi.
15:37
So what happens when we pay attention
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Dakle, ono što se desi kad obratimo pažnju
15:39
is that the prefrontal cortex, the sort of executive part of our brains,
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je da prefrontalni korteks, koji je neka vrsta rukovodioca našeg mozga,
15:42
sends a signal
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šalje signal
15:44
that makes a little part of our brain much more flexible,
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koji čini da jedan mali deo našeg mozga bude prilagodljiviji,
15:46
more plastic, better at learning,
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plastičniji, bolji u učenju,
15:48
and shuts down activity
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a gasi aktivnost
15:50
in all the rest of our brains.
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u drugim delovima našeg mozga.
15:52
So we have a very focused, purpose-driven kind of attention.
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Dakle, mi imamo vrlo fokusiranu pažnju, veoma zavisnu od svrhe.
15:56
If we look at babies and young children,
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Ako posmatramo bebe i malu decu,
15:58
we see something very different.
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vidimo nešto dosta drugačije.
16:00
I think babies and young children
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Mislim da bebe i mala deca
16:02
seem to have more of a lantern of consciousness
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izgleda pre imaju neku lampu svesnosti
16:04
than a spotlight of consciousness.
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nego uski svetlosni snop svesti.
16:06
So babies and young children are very bad
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Zato bebama i maloj deci teško polazi za rukom
16:09
at narrowing down to just one thing.
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da se usmere samo na jednu stvar.
16:12
But they're very good at taking in lots of information
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Ali su veoma dobri u primanju mnoštva informacija
16:15
from lots of different sources at once.
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iz mnogo različitih izvora odjednom.
16:17
And if you actually look in their brains,
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I ako, zapravo, pogledate u njihov mozak,
16:19
you see that they're flooded with these neurotransmitters
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videćete da su preplavljeni svim tim neurotransmiterima
16:22
that are really good at inducing learning and plasticity,
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koji su jako dobri za procese učenja i plastičnosti mozga,
16:24
and the inhibitory parts haven't come on yet.
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a da se inhibitorni delovi još nisu pojavili.
16:27
So when we say that babies and young children
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Dakle, kad kažemo da su bebe i mala deca
16:29
are bad at paying attention,
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loša u obraćanju pažnje,
16:31
what we really mean is that they're bad at not paying attention.
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ono što zaista mislimo je da su oni loši u NE-obraćanju pažnje.
16:35
So they're bad at getting rid
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Znači, njima je teško da se otarase
16:37
of all the interesting things that could tell them something
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svih interesantnih stvari koje bi mogle da im nešto kažu
16:39
and just looking at the thing that's important.
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i da se fokusiraju samo na tu jednu važnu stvar.
16:41
That's the kind of attention, the kind of consciousness,
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To je vrsta pažnje, vrsta svesnosti,
16:44
that we might expect
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koju možemo očekivati
16:46
from those butterflies who are designed to learn.
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od ovih leptira koji su stvoreni da uče.
16:48
Well if we want to think about a way
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Dobro, ako hoćemo da razmišljamo o načinu
16:50
of getting a taste of that kind of baby consciousness as adults,
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da kao odrasli okusimo tu vrstu dečje svesnosti
16:54
I think the best thing is think about cases
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mislim da je najbolje da mislimo o slučajevima
16:56
where we're put in a new situation that we've never been in before --
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kada se nađemo u novoj situaciji u koji nikada pre nismo bili --
16:59
when we fall in love with someone new,
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kada se zaljubimo u nekog novog,
17:01
or when we're in a new city for the first time.
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ili kada smo u novom gradu po prvi put.
17:04
And what happens then is not that our consciousness contracts,
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I ono što se tada desi nije skupljanje svesnosti,
17:06
it expands,
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nego širenje,
17:08
so that those three days in Paris
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tako da ona tri dana u Parizu
17:10
seem to be more full of consciousness and experience
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izgledaju ispunjenija svesnošću i iskustvom
17:12
than all the months of being
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nego svi oni meseci kada smo
17:14
a walking, talking, faculty meeting-attending zombie back home.
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kao zombi koji hoda, priča, ide na sastanke tamo kod kuće.
17:18
And by the way, that coffee,
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I uzgred, ta kafa,
17:20
that wonderful coffee you've been drinking downstairs,
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ta divna kafa koju pijete u prizemlju,
17:22
actually mimics the effect
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zapravo imitira efekat
17:24
of those baby neurotransmitters.
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onih dečjih neurotransmitera.
17:26
So what's it like to be a baby?
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Dakle, kako je to biti beba?
17:28
It's like being in love
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To je kao da ste zaljubljeni
17:30
in Paris for the first time
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u Parizu po prvi put
17:32
after you've had three double-espressos.
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pošto ste popili tri dupla espresa.
17:34
(Laughter)
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(smeh)
17:37
That's a fantastic way to be,
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To je fantastičan osećaj,
17:39
but it does tend to leave you waking up crying at three o'clock in the morning.
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ali takođe dovodi do toga da se plačući budite u tri sata ujutru.
17:43
(Laughter)
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(smeh)
17:46
Now it's good to be a grownup.
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Da, dobro je biti odrasla osoba.
17:48
I don't want to say too much about how wonderful babies are.
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Ne želim da pričam preterano o tome kako su bebe divne.
17:50
It's good to be a grownup.
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Dobro je biti odrasla osoba.
17:52
We can do things like tie our shoelaces and cross the street by ourselves.
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Mi možemo sami da vežemo pertle ili sami da pređemo ulicu.
17:55
And it makes sense that we put a lot of effort
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I logično je da ulažemo mnogo truda
17:57
into making babies think like adults do.
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da bismo naterali bebe da razmišljaju kao odrasli.
18:01
But if what we want is to be like those butterflies,
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Ali, ako želimo da budemo kao ti leptiri,
18:04
to have open-mindedness, open learning,
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da budemo nepristrasni, otvoreni za učenje,
18:07
imagination, creativity, innovation,
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za maštu, kreativnost, inovaciju,
18:09
maybe at least some of the time
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možda bi, bar na neko vreme,
18:11
we should be getting the adults
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trebalo da teramo odrasle
18:13
to start thinking more like children.
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da počnu da razmišljaju sličnije deci.
18:15
(Applause)
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(aplauz)
ABOUT THE SPEAKER
Alison Gopnik - Child development psychologistAlison Gopnik takes us into the fascinating minds of babies and children, and shows us how much we understand before we even realize we do.
Why you should listen
What’s it really like to see through the eyes of a child? Are babies and young children just empty, irrational vessels to be formed into little adults, until they become the perfect images of ourselves? On the contrary, argues Alison Gopnik, professor of psychology and philosophy at the University of California at Berkeley.
The author of The Philosophical Baby, The Scientist in the Crib and other influential books on cognitive development, Gopnik presents evidence that babies and children are conscious of far more than we give them credit for, as they engage every sense and spend every waking moment discovering, filing away, analyzing and acting on information about how the world works. Gopnik’s work draws on psychological, neuroscientific, and philosophical developments in child development research to understand how the human mind learns, how and why we love, our ability to innovate, as well as giving us a deeper appreciation for the role of parenthood.
She says: "What's it like to be a baby? Being in love in Paris for the first time after you've had 3 double espressos."
Alison Gopnik | Speaker | TED.com