ABOUT THE SPEAKERS
Christiane Amanpour - Journalist
TV news legend Christiane Amanpour is known for her uncompromising approach to reporting and interviewing.

Why you should listen

Christiane Amanpour is CNN's chief international correspondent and anchor of the global a airs program "Amanpour," broadcast from the television network's London bureau. She's covered the most relevant conflicts of the last decades, exposing both the brutality and human cost of war and its geopolitical impacts. From the 1991 Gulf War to the siege of Sarajevo (the city later named her honorary citizen), from the 2003 American-led invasion of Iraq to the trial of Saddam Hussein the following year, Amanpour's fearless and uncompromising approach has made her popular with audiences, and a force to be reckoned with by global influencers.

During the Balkan wars, Amanpour famously broke with the idea of journalism neutrality by calling out human right abuses and saying that "there are some situations one simply cannot be neutral about, because when you are neutral you are an accomplice." Since her interview show "Amanpour" was launched in 2009, she's spoken to leaders and decision makers on the issues affecting the world today while continuing reporting from all over the world, including the 2010 earthquake in Haiti and the 2011 tsunami in Japan.

More profile about the speaker
Christiane Amanpour | Speaker | TED.com
Chris Anderson - TED Curator
After a long career in journalism and publishing, Chris Anderson became the curator of the TED Conference in 2002 and has developed it as a platform for identifying and disseminating ideas worth spreading.

Why you should listen

Chris Anderson is the Curator of TED, a nonprofit devoted to sharing valuable ideas, primarily through the medium of 'TED Talks' -- short talks that are offered free online to a global audience.

Chris was born in a remote village in Pakistan in 1957. He spent his early years in India, Pakistan and Afghanistan, where his parents worked as medical missionaries, and he attended an American school in the Himalayas for his early education. After boarding school in Bath, England, he went on to Oxford University, graduating in 1978 with a degree in philosophy, politics and economics.

Chris then trained as a journalist, working in newspapers and radio, including two years producing a world news service in the Seychelles Islands.

Back in the UK in 1984, Chris was captivated by the personal computer revolution and became an editor at one of the UK's early computer magazines. A year later he founded Future Publishing with a $25,000 bank loan. The new company initially focused on specialist computer publications but eventually expanded into other areas such as cycling, music, video games, technology and design, doubling in size every year for seven years. In 1994, Chris moved to the United States where he built Imagine Media, publisher of Business 2.0 magazine and creator of the popular video game users website IGN. Chris eventually merged Imagine and Future, taking the combined entity public in London in 1999, under the Future name. At its peak, it published 150 magazines and websites and employed 2,000 people.

This success allowed Chris to create a private nonprofit organization, the Sapling Foundation, with the hope of finding new ways to tackle tough global issues through media, technology, entrepreneurship and, most of all, ideas. In 2001, the foundation acquired the TED Conference, then an annual meeting of luminaries in the fields of Technology, Entertainment and Design held in Monterey, California, and Chris left Future to work full time on TED.

He expanded the conference's remit to cover all topics, including science, business and key global issues, while adding a Fellows program, which now has some 300 alumni, and the TED Prize, which grants its recipients "one wish to change the world." The TED stage has become a place for thinkers and doers from all fields to share their ideas and their work, capturing imaginations, sparking conversation and encouraging discovery along the way.

In 2006, TED experimented with posting some of its talks on the Internet. Their viral success encouraged Chris to begin positioning the organization as a global media initiative devoted to 'ideas worth spreading,' part of a new era of information dissemination using the power of online video. In June 2015, the organization posted its 2,000th talk online. The talks are free to view, and they have been translated into more than 100 languages with the help of volunteers from around the world. Viewership has grown to approximately one billion views per year.

Continuing a strategy of 'radical openness,' in 2009 Chris introduced the TEDx initiative, allowing free licenses to local organizers who wished to organize their own TED-like events. More than 8,000 such events have been held, generating an archive of 60,000 TEDx talks. And three years later, the TED-Ed program was launched, offering free educational videos and tools to students and teachers.

More profile about the speaker
Chris Anderson | Speaker | TED.com
TEDGlobal>NYC

Christiane Amanpour: How to seek truth in the era of fake news

Christiane Amanpour: Como procurar a verdade numa era de notícias falsas

Filmed:
1,615,954 views

Conhecida no mundo todo por sua coragem e clareza, Christiane Amanpour passou as últimas três décadas entrevistando líderes do negócio, da cultura e da política que mudaram a história. Numa conversa com o curador do TED Chris Anderson, Amanpour fala sobre as notícias falsas, objetividade no jornalismo e o vácuo de liderança na política global, compartilhando sua sabedoria pelo caminho. "Tome cuidado onde lê sua informação", ela diz. "Se não formos engajados como cidadãos globais que apreciam a verdade, que entendem a ciência, evidências empíricas e fatos, iremos, discretamente, andar até uma potencial catástrofe."
- Journalist
TV news legend Christiane Amanpour is known for her uncompromising approach to reporting and interviewing. Full bio - TED Curator
After a long career in journalism and publishing, Chris Anderson became the curator of the TED Conference in 2002 and has developed it as a platform for identifying and disseminating ideas worth spreading. Full bio

Double-click the English transcript below to play the video.

Chris Anderson: Christiane,
ótimo ter você aqui.
00:12
Chis Anderson: Christiane,
great to have you here.
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Você tem um ponto de vista incrível,
00:15
So you've had this amazing viewpoint,
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00:17
and perhaps it's fair to say
that in the last few years,
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e, talvez, seja justo afirmar
que, nos últimos anos,
00:20
there have been some alarming
developments that you're seeing.
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você está vendo alguns
acontecimento preocupantes.
00:24
What's alarmed you most?
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O que te preocupou mais?
00:25
Christiane Amanpour: Well, just listening
to the earlier speakers,
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Christiane Amanpour: Só de escutar
os palestrantes anteriores,
posso usar o que eles vêm afirmando:
00:28
I can frame it
in what they've been saying:
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00:31
climate change, for instance --
cities, the threat to our environment
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aquecimento global, por exemplo, cidades,
ameaças ao meio ambiente e à nossa vida.
00:34
and our lives.
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00:36
It basically also boils down to
understanding the truth
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Simplesmente, temos
que entender a verdade,
00:40
and to be able to get to the truth
of what we're talking about
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e ser capaz de identificar
a verdade em nossa fala,
00:43
in order to really be able to solve it.
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para que possamos, de fato, solucionar.
00:45
So if 99.9 percent
of the science on climate
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Se 99,9% da ciência envolvendo o clima
é empírica, de evidências científicas,
00:49
is empirical, scientific evidence,
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mas está competindo quase
que igualmente com poucos negadores,
00:52
but it's competing almost equally
with a handful of deniers,
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00:57
that is not the truth;
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essa não é a verdade;
essa é a personificação
das notícias falsas.
00:58
that is the epitome of fake news.
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Assim, para mim, nos últimos,
e, certamente, nesse último ano,
01:01
And so for me, the last few years --
certainly this last year --
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a noção de notícias falsas cristalizou-se
de uma forma muito preocupante,
01:06
has crystallized the notion of fake news
in a way that's truly alarming
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01:10
and not just some slogan
to be thrown around.
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não é mais só um slogan
que usamos para qualquer coisa.
Pois, ao não ser capaz de distinguir
entre a verdade e uma notícia falsa,
01:13
Because when you can't distinguish
between the truth and fake news,
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temos bem mais dificuldade de resolver
os grandes problemas que enfrentamos.
01:17
you have a very much more
difficult time trying to solve
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01:21
some of the great issues that we face.
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01:24
CA: Well, you've been involved
in this question of,
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CH: Há muito tempo você
está envolvida com o questionamento
01:27
what is balance, what is truth,
what is impartiality,
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de o qual é o equilíbrio, o que é verdade,
o que é imparcialidade.
01:30
for a long time.
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Há 25 anos, você esteve na linha de frente
para noticiar a Guerras dos Bálcãs.
01:32
You were on the front lines
reporting the Balkan Wars 25 years ago.
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01:38
And back then, you famously said,
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E, numa frase célebre na época,
01:41
by calling out human right abuses,
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ao denunciar violações
dos direitos humanos, você disse:
01:44
you said, "Look, there are some situations
one simply cannot be neutral about,
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"Há algumas situações
em que é impossível ser imparcial,
pois, ao ser neutro,
01:48
because when you're neutral,
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01:49
you are an accomplice."
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você se torna um cúmplice."
01:53
So, do you feel that today's journalists
aren't heeding that advice
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Você acha que os jornalistas de hoje
não escutam esse conselho
01:58
about balance?
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sobre o equilíbrio?
01:59
CA: Well, look, I think for journalists,
objectivity is the golden rule.
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CA: Veja, acho que, para jornalistas,
a objetividade é a regra básica.
02:03
But I think sometimes we don't understand
what objectivity means.
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Mas, às vezes, não entendemos
o que "objetividade" realmente é.
Aprendi isso muito cedo na minha carreira,
durante as Guerras dos Bálcãs.
02:08
And I actually learned this very,
very young in my career,
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02:11
which was during the Balkan Wars.
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Eu era mais jovem.
02:12
I was young then.
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02:14
It was about 25 years ago.
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Foi mais ou menos há 25 anos.
02:16
And what we faced was the wholesale
violation, not just of human rights,
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O que enfrentamos foi uma violação
sistemática, não só de direitos humanos,
mas, também, limpeza étnica e genocídio,
02:22
but all the way to ethnic
cleansing and genocide,
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e isso foi julgado na maior corte
de crimes do mundo.
02:25
and that has been adjudicated
in the highest war crimes court
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02:29
in the world.
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Sabíamos o que estávamos vendo.
02:30
So, we know what we were seeing.
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02:32
Trying to tell the world
what we were seeing
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Ao tentar contar ao mundo
o que testemunhávamos,
02:34
brought us accusations of bias,
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fomos considerados parciais,
02:37
of siding with one side,
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de apoiar apenas um lado,
02:39
of not seeing the whole side,
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de não entender ambos lados,
02:41
and just, you know,
trying to tell one story.
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de tentar contar só uma história.
02:43
I particularly and personally
was accused of siding with,
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Eu, particularmente, fui
acusada de ficar do lado
02:48
for instance, the citizens of Sarajevo --
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por exemplo, do povo de Sarajevo,
"apoiei os muçulmanos",
02:50
"siding with the Muslims,"
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02:51
because they were the minority
who were being attacked
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pois eram a minoria
que estava sendo atacada
02:54
by Christians on the Serb side
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pelos cristãos no lado sérvio da área.
02:58
in this area.
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03:00
And it worried me.
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Isso me preocupou.
03:01
It worried me that I was being
accused of this.
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Me preocupou estar sendo acusada disso.
Pensei que, talvez, estivesse errada,
que esquecera o que era a objetividade.
03:03
I thought maybe I was wrong,
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03:05
maybe I'd forgotten what objectivity was.
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03:07
But then I started to understand
that what people wanted
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Mas, então, compreendi
o que as pessoas queriam:
queriam não fazer nada,
03:10
was actually not to do anything --
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03:12
not to step in,
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não se intrometer,
03:13
not to change the situation,
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não mudar a situação,
e não achar uma solução.
03:15
not to find a solution.
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03:16
And so, their fake news at that time,
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Logo, as notícias falsas da época,
03:19
their lie at that time --
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as mentiras da época,
03:20
including our government's,
our democratically elected government's,
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incluindo do nosso governo,
um governo eleito democraticamente,
03:24
with values and principles
of human rights --
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com valores e princípios
dos direitos humanos,
03:26
their lie was to say
that all sides are equally guilty,
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a mentira deles foi afirmar
que ambos lados eram igualmente culpados,
03:30
that this has been centuries
of ethnic hatred,
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que essa era a consequência
de séculos de ódio étnico,
03:32
whereas we knew that wasn't true,
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e já sabemos que isso não é verdade,
03:34
that one side had decided to kill,
slaughter and ethnically cleanse
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só um lado decidira matar, massacrar
e limpar etnicamente o outro lado.
03:38
another side.
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Ali entendi que "objetividade" é, de fato,
escutar a todos os lados igualmente,
03:39
So that is where, for me,
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03:41
I understood that objectivity means
giving all sides an equal hearing
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03:46
and talking to all sides,
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e falar com todos os lados,
03:48
but not treating all sides equally,
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mas não tratar todos
os lados da mesma forma
ou criar um equivalente moral ou factual.
03:52
not creating a forced moral equivalence
or a factual equivalence.
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03:57
And when you come up against
that crisis point
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E, ao chegar nesse momento de crise,
04:01
in situations of grave violations
of international and humanitarian law,
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em situações de violações graves
de leis humanitárias internacionais,
04:07
if you don't understand
what you're seeing,
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se não consegue entender o que vê,
04:09
if you don't understand the truth
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se não compreende a verdade,
04:11
and if you get trapped
in the fake news paradigm,
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se você cai na armadilha
dos paradigmas das notícias falsas,
04:15
then you are an accomplice.
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então, você se torna um cúmplice.
04:17
And I refuse to be
an accomplice to genocide.
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E me recuso a ser cúmplice de genocídio.
04:20
(Applause)
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(Aplausos)
04:26
CH: So there have always been
these propaganda battles,
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CH: Sempre acontecem
essas batalhas propagandísticas,
04:29
and you were courageous in taking
the stand you took back then.
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e você foi corajosa em tomar
a posição que tomou na época.
04:33
Today, there's a whole new way, though,
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Mas, hoje, parece que há uma nova
forma de se falsificar notícias.
04:37
in which news seems to be becoming fake.
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Como você definiria tudo isso?
04:39
How would you characterize that?
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04:41
CA: Well, look -- I am really alarmed.
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CA: Estou muito preocupada.
04:43
And everywhere I look,
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Para todo lugar que olho,
sou bombardeada por elas.
04:45
you know, we're buffeted by it.
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Claro que quando o líder do mundo livre,
04:47
Obviously, when the leader
of the free world,
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quando a pessoa mais poderosa do mundo,
04:49
when the most powerful person
in the entire world,
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que é o presidente dos Estados Unidos,
04:52
which is the president
of the United States --
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os EUA é o país mais
importante e poderoso do mundo
04:54
this is the most important, most powerful
country in the whole world,
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04:59
economically, militarily, politically
in every which way --
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economicamente, militarmente
politicamente e de todas as formas,
05:04
and it seeks to, obviously, promote
its values and power around the world.
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e, claro que ele procura promover
seus valores e poder por todo o mundo.
Logo, nós, jornalistas,
que apenas procuramos a verdade,
05:09
So we journalists,
who only seek the truth --
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05:13
I mean, that is our mission --
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digo, essa é nossa missão,
nós a procuramos ao redor do mundo,
05:15
we go around the world
looking for the truth
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para que sejamos
os olhos e ouvidos de todos,
05:17
in order to be everybody's eyes and ears,
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de pessoas que não podem
ir ao redor do mundo
05:19
people who can't go out
in various parts of the world
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para entender o que está
acontecendo com coisas essenciais,
05:21
to figure out what's going on
about things that are vitally important
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05:25
to everybody's health and security.
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como a saúde e a segurança de todos.
05:27
So when you have a major world leader
accusing you of fake news,
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Quando um grande líder mundial
acusa você de criar notícias falsas,
05:33
it has an exponential ripple effect.
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isso gera uma cadeia
de efeitos exponencial.
05:37
And what it does is,
it starts to chip away
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Isso começa a corroer
05:42
at not just our credibility,
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não só nossa credibilidade,
mas, também, a cabeça do povo.
05:45
but at people's minds --
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As pessoas nos olham e pensam:
05:48
people who look at us,
and maybe they're thinking,
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"Se o presidente
dos Estados Unidos afirma isso,
05:50
"Well, if the president
of the United States says that,
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então, talvez, seja um pouco verdade".
05:53
maybe somewhere there's a truth in there."
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CH: Mas os presidentes
sempre criticaram a mídia...
05:56
CH: Presidents have always
been critical of the media --
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06:00
CA: Not in this way.
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CA: Não dessa maneira.
06:01
CH: So, to what extent --
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CH: Então, de que forma...
06:03
(Laughter)
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(Risos)
06:04
(Applause)
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(Aplausos)
CH: Digo, alguém, há alguns anos,
ao olhar a avalanche de informação
06:07
CH: I mean, someone a couple years ago
looking at the avalanche of information
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que o Twitter, o Facebook
e outros geram, poderia dizer:
06:14
pouring through Twitter
and Facebook and so forth,
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06:17
might have said,
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"Nossa democracia está
mais saudável do que nunca.
06:19
"Look, our democracies are healthier
than they've ever been.
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Nunca tivemos tantas notícias.
06:21
There's more news than ever.
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Claro que os presidentes
dirão sempre a mesma coisa,
06:23
Of course presidents
will say what they'll say,
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06:25
but everyone else can say
what they will say.
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mas os outros podem falar o que quiserem.
Como não amar isso?
Como isso pode ser perigoso?"
06:28
What's not to like?
How is there an extra danger?"
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CA: Queria que isso fosse verdade.
06:32
CA: So, I wish that was true.
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06:34
I wish that the proliferation of platforms
upon which we get our information
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Queria muito que essa
proliferação de plataformas
em que recebemos informação
fosse uma proliferação
da verdade, transparência,
06:41
meant that there was a proliferation
of truth and transparency
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profundidade e exatidão.
06:45
and depth and accuracy.
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06:46
But I think the opposite has happened.
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Mas temo que o oposto tenha acontecido.
06:49
You know, I'm a little bit of a Luddite,
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Sou um pouco cabeça dura
com tecnologias, admito.
06:51
I will confess.
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06:53
Even when we started to talk about
the information superhighway,
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Até mesmo quando começamos a falar
sobre a digitalização da informação,
06:56
which was a long time ago,
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que foi há muito tempo,
06:58
before social media, Twitter
and all the rest of it,
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antes das redes sociais,
Twitter e tudo o mais,
eu tinha medo de que isso colocaria
as pessoas em vias e túneis
07:00
I was actually really afraid
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07:02
that that would put people
into certain lanes and tunnels
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que as fizessem focar apenas
em áreas de seu próprio interesse,
07:06
and have them just focusing
on areas of their own interest
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07:11
instead of seeing the broad picture.
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em vez de de ver o todo.
07:13
And I'm afraid to say
that with algorithms, with logarithms,
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Temo afirmar que,
com algoritmos, logaritmos,
e seja lá qual "itmo" for,
07:18
with whatever the "-ithms" are
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07:19
that direct us into all these particular
channels of information,
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que nos direcionam para todos
esses específicos canais de informação,
isso já esteja acontecendo.
07:24
that seems to be happening right now.
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As pessoas já escreveram
sobre esse fenômeno.
07:25
I mean, people have written
about this phenomenon.
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Elas afirmaram que a internet veio,
07:28
People have said that yes,
the internet came,
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e sua promessa era de aumentar o acesso
07:30
its promise was to exponentially explode
our access to more democracy,
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5743
a mais democracia, a mais informação,
07:36
more information,
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1714
07:38
less bias,
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1892
menos parcialidade,
07:40
more varied information.
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2389
mais informações verificadas.
07:42
And, in fact, the opposite has happened.
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2325
Mas, na realidade, o oposto aconteceu.
07:44
And so that, for me,
is incredibly dangerous.
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Para mim, isso é muito perigoso.
07:48
And again, when you are the president
of this country and you say things,
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4515
Novamente, quando se é o presidente
deste país e diz certas coisas,
isso dá aos líderes de outros países
não democráticos a cobertura
07:53
it also gives leaders in other
undemocratic countries the cover
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5425
08:00
to affront us even worse,
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para nos confrontarem ainda mais,
08:02
and to really whack us --
and their own journalists --
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2860
para nos derrubar
com seus próprios jornalistas
devido à ameaça de notícias falsas.
08:05
with this bludgeon of fake news.
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1823
08:08
CH: To what extent
is what happened, though,
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CH: Até que ponto o que aconteceu
foi só uma consequência não intencional
08:10
in part, just an unintended consequence,
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2066
08:12
that the traditional
media that you worked in
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2802
da mídia tradicional,
em que você trabalhava,
08:15
had this curation-mediation role,
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2080
que tinha esse papel de curador-mediador,
08:17
where certain norms were observed,
164
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2026
onde certas regras eram seguidas,
08:19
certain stories would be rejected
because they weren't credible,
165
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3153
certas histórias eram rejeitadas
por não serem críveis,
08:22
but now that the standard
for publication and for amplification
166
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6499
e que, hoje, o padrão
para publicação e amplificação
08:28
is just interest, attention,
excitement, click,
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3328
é só interesse, atenção, animação, clique.
"Rolou um clique?"
08:32
"Did it get clicked on?"
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1163
"Pode enviar!"
08:33
"Send it out there!"
169
501517
1155
08:34
and that's what's --
is that part of what's caused the problem?
170
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3504
Isso seria parte do problema?
CA: Acho que é um grande problema,
e já vimos isso na eleição de 2016,
08:38
CA: I think it's a big problem,
and we saw this in the election of 2016,
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3595
onde a ideia da "isca de clique"
se tornou bem atraente,
08:41
where the idea of "clickbait"
was very sexy and very attractive,
172
509843
5107
08:46
and so all these fake news sites
and fake news items
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514974
4306
logo, todos esses sites de notícias falsas
08:51
were not just haphazardly
and by happenstance being put out there,
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4122
não foram criado ao acaso;
existe uma indústria por trás
da criação de notícias falsas
08:55
there's been a whole industry
in the creation of fake news
175
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4451
em lugares do Leste Europeu,
seja lá onde for,
08:59
in parts of Eastern Europe, wherever,
176
527925
2990
09:02
and you know, it's planted
in real space and in cyberspace.
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3260
e, realmente, criou-se
um ambiente para isso no ciberespaço.
09:06
So I think that, also,
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2359
Também, nós nunca havíamos enfrentado
09:08
the ability of our technology
to proliferate this stuff
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5121
essa habilidade da tecnologia
de proliferar essas notícias
09:13
at the speed of sound
or light, just about --
180
541751
3511
na velocidade da luz e do som.
Foi algo inédito de se enfrentar.
09:17
we've never faced that before.
181
545286
1983
09:19
And we've never faced
such a massive amount of information
182
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4867
E nunca nos defrontamos com uma quantidade
tão massiva de informação
09:24
which is not curated
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552184
1565
que não está bem mediada
09:25
by those whose profession
leads them to abide by the truth,
184
553773
5296
por aqueles cuja profissão
os leva a respeitar a verdade,
09:31
to fact-check
185
559093
1202
a checar os fatos
09:32
and to maintain a code of conduct
and a code of professional ethics.
186
560319
4834
e manter um código de conduta
e de éticas profissionais.
09:37
CH: Many people here may know
people who work at Facebook
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3343
CH: Muitos aqui devem conhecer pessoas
que trabalham para o Facebook,
09:40
or Twitter and Google and so on.
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2324
ou para o Twitter, Google e outros.
09:42
They all seem like great people
with good intention --
189
570892
3132
Parecem ser ótimas pessoas,
com boas intenções...
vamos supor que seja o caso.
09:46
let's assume that.
190
574048
1380
Se você pudesse falar
com os donos dessas empresas,
09:47
If you could speak with the leaders
of those companies,
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575452
3675
09:51
what would you say to them?
192
579151
1291
o que você diria para eles?
09:52
CA: Well, you know what --
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580466
1769
CA: Bem, quer saber...
09:54
I'm sure they are
incredibly well-intentioned,
194
582259
2344
Realmente acho
que eles têm boas intenções,
09:56
and they certainly developed
an unbelievable, game-changing system,
195
584627
5218
e, certamente, criaram
um sistema inacreditável que mudou tudo,
10:01
where everybody's connected
on this thing called Facebook.
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589869
3211
onde todos estão conectados
por essa coisa chamada Facebook.
10:05
And they've created a massive
economy for themselves
197
593104
3801
Criaram uma grande economia para si
10:08
and an amazing amount of income.
198
596929
2680
e uma renda com valores incríveis.
Eu apenas diria: "Pessoal, acho que está
na hora de acordar e se dar conta,
10:11
I would just say,
199
599633
1180
10:12
"Guys, you know, it's time
to wake up and smell the coffee
200
600837
4234
10:17
and look at what's happening
to us right now."
201
605095
2702
prestar atenção no que está
acontecendo conosco".
10:19
Mark Zuckerberg wants to create
a global community.
202
607821
2932
O Mark Zuckerberg quer
criar uma comunidade global.
10:22
I want to know: What is that global
community going to look like?
203
610777
3219
Quero saber: como será
essa comunidade global?
10:26
I want to know where the codes
of conduct actually are.
204
614020
4067
Quero saber quais serão,
de fato, os códigos de conduta.
10:30
Mark Zuckerberg said --
205
618111
1825
O Mark Zuckerberg disse,
10:31
and I don't blame him,
he probably believed this --
206
619960
2718
e não o culpo, provavelmente
ele acredita nisso,
10:34
that it was crazy to think
207
622702
2356
que é louco pensar
10:37
that the Russians or anybody else
could be tinkering and messing around
208
625082
4109
que os russos ou quem fosse poderiam estar
manipulando e interferindo nesse ambiente.
10:41
with this avenue.
209
629215
1243
10:42
And what have we just learned
in the last few weeks?
210
630482
2482
E o que ficamos sabendo
nas últimas semanas?
Que, de fato, aconteceu
algo grave em relação a isso,
10:44
That, actually, there has been
a major problem in that regard,
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632988
2958
e, agora, estão investigando
e entendendo o ocorrido.
10:47
and now they're having to investigate it
and figure it out.
212
635970
3118
10:51
Yes, they're trying to do
what they can now
213
639112
3279
Sim, estão tentando fazer o que podem
para prevenir
a ascensão de notícias falsas,
10:54
to prevent the rise of fake news,
214
642415
2158
mas, elas ficaram
muito tempo sem restrições.
10:56
but, you know,
215
644597
1383
10:58
it went pretty unrestricted
for a long, long time.
216
646004
5091
Logo, eu diria a eles:
11:03
So I guess I would say, you know,
217
651119
1900
11:05
you guys are brilliant at technology;
218
653043
2099
"Vocês são brilhantes na tecnologia;
vamos tentar gerar um outro algoritmo,
11:07
let's figure out another algorithm.
219
655166
1891
11:09
Can we not?
220
657081
1171
pode ser?"
11:10
CH: An algorithm that includes
journalistic investigation --
221
658276
2887
CH: Um algoritmo que inclua
investigação jornalística...
11:13
CA: I don't really know how they do it,
but somehow, you know --
222
661187
3356
CA: Não sei ao certo como fariam,
mas, de alguma maneira,
11:16
filter out the crap!
223
664567
1819
filtrar o que for ruim!
11:18
(Laughter)
224
666410
1150
(Risos)
11:19
And not just the unintentional --
225
667584
2002
E não só o não intencional,
11:21
(Applause)
226
669610
3254
(Aplausos)
11:24
but the deliberate lies that are planted
227
672888
2206
mas, também, as mentiras que são plantadas
11:27
by people who've been doing this
as a matter of warfare
228
675118
4325
por pessoas que vêm fazendo
isso como se fosse uma guerra
11:31
for decades.
229
679467
1302
há décadas.
11:32
The Soviets, the Russians --
230
680793
1933
Os soviéticos, os russos...
11:34
they are the masters of war
by other means, of hybrid warfare.
231
682750
5244
eles são os mestres da guerra
através de outros meios.
11:40
And this is a --
232
688618
1444
E foi isso
11:42
this is what they've decided to do.
233
690689
2984
que eles decidiram fazer.
11:45
It worked in the United States,
234
693697
1605
Funcionou nos Estados Unidos,
11:47
it didn't work in France,
235
695326
1321
não funcionou na França,
11:48
it hasn't worked in Germany.
236
696671
1673
e ainda não funcionou na Alemanha.
11:50
During the elections there,
where they've tried to interfere,
237
698368
2941
Durante as eleições de lá,
onde eles tentaram interferir,
o presidente da França,
hoje, Emmanuel Macron,
11:53
the president of France
right now, Emmanuel Macron,
238
701333
2602
tomou uma decisão e confrontou o problema
de cabeça, assim como a Angela Merkel fez.
11:55
took a very tough stand
and confronted it head on,
239
703959
2523
11:58
as did Angela Merkel.
240
706506
1158
11:59
CH: There's some hope to be had
from some of this, isn't there?
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707688
2985
CH: Há de se ter esperança
com essas coisas, não é?
Que o mundo aprenderá.
12:02
That the world learns.
242
710697
1151
Fomos enganados uma vez,
talvez nos enganem de novo,
12:03
We get fooled once,
243
711872
1318
12:05
maybe we get fooled again,
244
713214
1332
mas não uma terceira vez.
12:06
but maybe not the third time.
245
714570
1455
Isso é verdade?
12:08
Is that true?
246
716049
1168
CA: Tomara que sim.
12:09
CA: I mean, let's hope.
247
717241
1156
Mas acho que isso tem
muito a ver com a tecnologia.
12:10
But I think in this regard that so much
of it is also about technology,
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718421
3387
A tecnologia tem que criar
um tipo de bússola moral.
12:13
that the technology has to also be given
some kind of moral compass.
249
721832
3445
Sei que parece ser loucura,
mas vocês me entenderam.
12:17
I know I'm talking nonsense,
but you know what I mean.
250
725301
2816
12:20
CH: We need a filter-the-crap algorithm
with a moral compass --
251
728141
3708
CH: Precisamos de um algoritmo
que filtre o lixo com uma bússola moral...
12:23
CA: There you go.
252
731873
1157
CA: Exatamente.
12:25
CH: I think that's good.
253
733054
1152
CH: Acho isso bom.
CA: Queremos "tecnologia moral".
12:26
CA: No -- "moral technology."
254
734230
1671
Todos já temos uma bússola moral,
logo, uma tecnologia moral.
12:27
We all have moral compasses --
moral technology.
255
735925
3106
CH: Penso que é um grande desafio.
CA: Você me entende.
12:31
CH: I think that's a great challenge.
CA: You know what I mean.
256
739055
2979
CH: Vamos falar um pouco sobre liderança.
12:34
CH: Talk just a minute about leadership.
257
742058
1944
Você teve a chance de conversar
com várias pessoas no mundo.
12:36
You've had a chance to speak
with so many people across the world.
258
744026
3136
Acho que, para alguns, e falo de mim,
não sei se outros se sentem assim,
12:39
I think for some of us --
259
747186
1239
12:40
I speak for myself,
I don't know if others feel this --
260
748449
2692
houve um desapontamento:
12:43
there's kind of been a disappointment of:
261
751165
1996
12:45
Where are the leaders?
262
753185
1859
onde estão os líderes?
Muitos de nós fomos desapontados,
como o que ocorreu com Aung San Suu Kyi,
12:47
So many of us have been disappointed --
263
755068
2314
12:49
Aung San Suu Kyi,
what's happened recently,
264
757406
2016
é, tipo: "Não! Mais um fracassou".
12:51
it's like, "No! Another one
bites the dust."
265
759446
2085
É doloroso.
12:53
You know, it's heartbreaking.
266
761555
1599
12:55
(Laughter)
267
763178
1235
(Risos)
12:56
Who have you met
268
764437
2021
Quem você conheceu
12:58
who you have been
impressed by, inspired by?
269
766482
2870
que te impressionou e te inspirou?
CA: Bem, ao falar de um mundo em crise,
o que é absolutamente verdade,
13:01
CA: Well, you talk about
the world in crisis,
270
769376
2504
13:03
which is absolutely true,
271
771904
1354
13:05
and those of us who spend our whole lives
immersed in this crisis --
272
773282
4487
e de muitos que passam
a vida toda imersos nessa crise,
13:09
I mean, we're all on the verge
of a nervous breakdown.
273
777793
2993
estamos todos à beira
de um colapso nervoso.
13:12
So it's pretty stressful right now.
274
780810
2676
Está bastante estressante.
13:15
And you're right --
275
783510
1159
E você está certo, existe esse
vácuo de liderança, percebido e real,
13:16
there is this perceived and actual
vacuum of leadership,
276
784693
3110
e não sou apenas eu que falo,
13:19
and it's not me saying it,
I ask all these --
277
787827
2850
a todos com quem converso,
pergunto sobre liderança.
13:22
whoever I'm talking to,
I ask about leadership.
278
790701
2453
13:25
I was speaking to the outgoing
president of Liberia today,
279
793178
4510
Falei com a presidente da Libéria
no fim de seu mandato,
13:29
[Ellen Johnson Sirleaf,]
280
797712
1810
Ellen Johnson Sirleaf, que...
13:31
who --
281
799546
1154
(Aplausos)
13:32
(Applause)
282
800724
2215
13:34
in three weeks' time,
283
802963
1542
que daqui há três semanas,
13:36
will be one of the very rare
heads of an African country
284
804529
3944
será uma das raras líderes
de um país africano
13:40
who actually abides by the constitution
285
808497
2178
que, de fato, respeitou a constituição
e irá ceder o poder no fim de seu mandato.
13:42
and gives up power
after her prescribed term.
286
810699
3612
Ela diz querer que isso sirva de lição.
13:46
She has said she wants
to do that as a lesson.
287
814335
3857
13:50
But when I asked her about leadership,
288
818216
2032
Mas, ao perguntar a ela sobre liderança,
13:52
and I gave a quick-fire round
of certain names,
289
820272
2683
citei alguns nomes rapidamente,
13:54
I presented her with the name
of the new French president,
290
822979
2977
e acabei citando o nome
do novo presidente francês,
13:57
Emmanuel Macron.
291
825980
1433
Emmanuel Macron,
e perguntei a ela: "O que passa na
sua cabeça quando digo o nome dele?"
13:59
And she said --
292
827437
1336
14:00
I said, "So what do you think
when I say his name?"
293
828797
2506
Ela respondeu:
14:03
And she said,
294
831327
1273
14:05
"Shaping up potentially to be
295
833578
2325
"Ele parece ser, potencialmente,
14:07
a leader to fill our current
leadership vacuum."
296
835927
4066
um líder que irá preencher
o vácuo de liderança".
Achei isso muito interessante.
14:12
I thought that was really interesting.
297
840017
1833
Ontem, fiz uma entrevista com ele.
14:13
Yesterday, I happened to have
an interview with him.
298
841874
2456
Tenho orgulho de ter feito sua primeira
entrevista internacional. Foi ótimo.
14:16
I'm very proud to say,
299
844354
1158
14:17
I got his first international interview.
It was great. It was yesterday.
300
845536
3419
Fiquei muito impressionada.
Não sei se deveria falar
disso num fórum aberto,
14:20
And I was really impressed.
301
848979
1292
14:22
I don't know whether I should be
saying that in an open forum,
302
850295
2928
mas fiquei bem impressionada.
14:25
but I was really impressed.
303
853247
1455
(Risos)
14:26
(Laughter)
304
854726
1218
Pode até ser porque foi
sua primeira entrevista,
14:28
And it could be just because
it was his first interview,
305
856867
2675
mas, fiz as perguntas e, quem diria,
14:31
but -- I asked questions,
and you know what?
306
859566
2095
ele as respondeu!
14:33
He answered them!
307
861685
1208
14:34
(Laughter)
308
862917
1933
(Risos)
14:36
(Applause)
309
864874
3269
(Aplausos)
14:40
There was no spin,
310
868167
1593
Não teve enrolação,
14:41
there was no wiggle and waggle,
311
869784
2391
nenhuma embromação,
não ficou me enrolando
por cinco minutos até voltar ao ponto.
14:44
there was no spend-five-minutes-
to-come-back-to-the-point.
312
872199
2829
Não tive que ficar o interrompendo,
14:47
I didn't have to keep interrupting,
313
875052
1668
até fiquei famosa por fazer isso,
14:48
which I've become rather
renowned for doing,
314
876744
2083
pois queria que as pessoas
respondessem as perguntas.
14:50
because I want people
to answer the question.
315
878851
2532
E ele as respondeu,
14:53
And he answered me,
316
881407
2051
14:55
and it was pretty interesting.
317
883482
2614
foi bem interessante.
14:58
And he said --
318
886120
1431
Ele me disse...
CH: Diga-me o que ele falou.
14:59
CH: Tell me what he said.
319
887575
1778
CA: Não, continue.
15:01
CA: No, no, you go ahead.
320
889377
1220
CH: Você é que interrompe. Eu escuto.
15:02
CH: You're the interrupter,
I'm the listener.
321
890621
2228
CA: Siga em frente.
CH: O que ele disse?
15:04
CA: No, no, go ahead.
322
892873
1158
CA: Tudo bem. Você falou hoje
de nacionalismo e tribalismo.
15:06
CH: What'd he say?
323
894055
1155
15:07
CA: OK. You've talked about
nationalism and tribalism here today.
324
895234
3078
Eu perguntei: "Como teve coragem
de confrontar os ventos fortes
15:10
I asked him, "How did you have the guts
to confront the prevailing winds
325
898336
3762
15:14
of anti-globalization,
nationalism, populism
326
902122
4535
da antiglobalização,
do nacionalismo, populismo
15:18
when you can see what happened in Brexit,
327
906681
1962
ao ver o que aconteceu com o Brexit,
ou nos Estados Unidos
15:20
when you could see what happened
in the United States
328
908667
2555
e o que poderia ter acontecido
em várias eleições europeias
15:23
and what might have happened
in many European elections
329
911246
2595
no começo de 2017?"
15:25
at the beginning of 2017?"
330
913865
1717
15:27
And he said,
331
915606
1319
Ele respondeu:
15:29
"For me, nationalism means war.
332
917597
3274
"Para mim, nacionalismo significa guerra.
15:33
We have seen it before,
333
921486
1673
Já vimos isso antes,
15:35
we have lived through it before
on my continent,
334
923183
2258
já vivemos isso antes no meu continente,
e sou bem claro sobre isso".
15:37
and I am very clear about that."
335
925465
2686
Logo, ele não iria,
apenas por conveniência política
15:40
So he was not going to,
just for political expediency,
336
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3961
15:44
embrace the, kind of, lowest
common denominator
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assumir o menor denominador comum
15:47
that had been embraced
in other political elections.
338
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4005
que foi assumido
em outras eleições políticas.
15:51
And he stood against Marine Le Pen,
who is a very dangerous woman.
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4441
Ele confrontou Marine Le Pen,
que é uma mulher muito perigosa.
15:56
CH: Last question for you, Christiane.
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2032
CH: Uma última pergunta, Christiane.
Falando de ideias
que merecem ser espalhadas,
16:00
Tell us about ideas worth spreading.
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1998
16:02
If you could plant one idea
into the minds of everyone here,
342
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4647
se pudesse plantar uma ideia
na cabeça de todos aqui,
qual seria?
16:06
what would that be?
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1197
16:08
CA: I would say really be careful
where you get your information from;
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5114
CA: Pediria para que tomassem
cuidado onde leem suas informações;
16:13
really take responsibility
for what you read, listen to and watch;
345
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5322
realmente se responsabilizem
por aquilo que leem, escutam e assistem;
16:18
make sure that you go to the trusted
brands to get your main information,
346
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4887
tenham certeza de que estão lendo
informações nas marcas confiáveis,
16:23
no matter whether you have
a wide, eclectic intake,
347
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4689
não importa se vocês têm
uma ampla e eclética seleção,
16:28
really stick with the brand
names that you know,
348
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2995
fiquem com as marcas que vocês conhecem,
16:31
because in this world right now,
at this moment right now,
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3592
pois no mundo de hoje, neste momento,
16:34
our crises, our challenges,
our problems are so severe,
350
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4339
nossa crise, nossos desafios
e problemas estão tão sérios
16:39
that unless we are all engaged
as global citizens
351
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3551
que, se não estivermos todos
engajados como cidadãos globais
16:42
who appreciate the truth,
352
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1903
que apreciam a verdade,
16:44
who understand science,
empirical evidence and facts,
353
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4345
que entendem a ciência,
evidências empíricas e fatos,
16:48
then we are just simply
going to be wandering along
354
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3499
vamos, simplesmente e distraidamente,
andar até uma potencial catástrofe.
16:52
to a potential catastrophe.
355
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1961
16:54
So I would say, the truth,
356
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1364
Então, falaria sobre a verdade
e, voltando ao Emmanuel Macron,
16:55
and then I would come back
to Emmanuel Macron
357
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2256
falaria sobre o amor.
16:58
and talk about love.
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1300
17:00
I would say that there's not
enough love going around.
359
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4469
Diria que não há amor o bastante por aí.
Pedi para que ele me falasse do amor.
17:04
And I asked him to tell me about love.
360
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2692
Eu disse: "Você sabe que seu casamento
é o tema de uma obsessão global".
17:07
I said, "You know, your marriage
is the subject of global obsession."
361
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3592
17:10
(Laughter)
362
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1635
(Risos)
17:12
"Can you tell me about love?
363
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1413
"Pode me falar sobre amor?
O que ele é para você?"
17:13
What does it mean to you?"
364
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1314
Eu nunca tinha perguntado a um presidente
ou líder eleito sobre o amor, eu tentei.
17:15
I've never asked a president
or an elected leader about love.
365
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2941
17:18
I thought I'd try it.
366
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1158
E ele realmente me respondeu.
17:19
And he said -- you know,
he actually answered it.
367
1027428
3915
17:23
And he said, "I love my wife,
she is part of me,
368
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4161
Ele disse: "Amo minha esposa,
ela é parte de mim,
estamos juntos há décadas".
17:27
we've been together for decades."
369
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1627
17:29
But here's where it really counted,
370
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1685
Mas, o que realmente importou,
17:30
what really stuck with me.
371
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1503
o que realmente me marcou, foi esta parte:
17:32
He said,
372
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1241
"É muito importante ter alguém em casa
17:33
"It is so important for me
to have somebody at home
373
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3520
17:37
who tells me the truth."
374
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1899
que me diga a verdade".
Então, voltei ao começo,
é tudo sobre a verdade.
17:40
So you see, I brought it home.
It's all about the truth.
375
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2712
(Risos)
17:43
(Laughter)
376
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1006
CH: Então pronto. Verdade e amor.
Ideias que merecem ser espalhadas.
17:44
CH: So there you go. Truth and love.
Ideas worth spreading.
377
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2807
Christiane Amanpour,
muito obrigado. Foi ótimo.
17:47
Christiane Amanpour, thank you
so much. That was great.
378
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2663
CA: Obrigada.
CH: Foi muito legal.
17:49
(Applause)
379
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1068
17:50
CA: Thank you.
CH: That was really lovely.
380
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2334
17:53
(Applause)
381
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1215
(Aplausos)
CA: Obrigada.
17:54
CA: Thank you.
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1165

▲Back to top

ABOUT THE SPEAKERS
Christiane Amanpour - Journalist
TV news legend Christiane Amanpour is known for her uncompromising approach to reporting and interviewing.

Why you should listen

Christiane Amanpour is CNN's chief international correspondent and anchor of the global a airs program "Amanpour," broadcast from the television network's London bureau. She's covered the most relevant conflicts of the last decades, exposing both the brutality and human cost of war and its geopolitical impacts. From the 1991 Gulf War to the siege of Sarajevo (the city later named her honorary citizen), from the 2003 American-led invasion of Iraq to the trial of Saddam Hussein the following year, Amanpour's fearless and uncompromising approach has made her popular with audiences, and a force to be reckoned with by global influencers.

During the Balkan wars, Amanpour famously broke with the idea of journalism neutrality by calling out human right abuses and saying that "there are some situations one simply cannot be neutral about, because when you are neutral you are an accomplice." Since her interview show "Amanpour" was launched in 2009, she's spoken to leaders and decision makers on the issues affecting the world today while continuing reporting from all over the world, including the 2010 earthquake in Haiti and the 2011 tsunami in Japan.

More profile about the speaker
Christiane Amanpour | Speaker | TED.com
Chris Anderson - TED Curator
After a long career in journalism and publishing, Chris Anderson became the curator of the TED Conference in 2002 and has developed it as a platform for identifying and disseminating ideas worth spreading.

Why you should listen

Chris Anderson is the Curator of TED, a nonprofit devoted to sharing valuable ideas, primarily through the medium of 'TED Talks' -- short talks that are offered free online to a global audience.

Chris was born in a remote village in Pakistan in 1957. He spent his early years in India, Pakistan and Afghanistan, where his parents worked as medical missionaries, and he attended an American school in the Himalayas for his early education. After boarding school in Bath, England, he went on to Oxford University, graduating in 1978 with a degree in philosophy, politics and economics.

Chris then trained as a journalist, working in newspapers and radio, including two years producing a world news service in the Seychelles Islands.

Back in the UK in 1984, Chris was captivated by the personal computer revolution and became an editor at one of the UK's early computer magazines. A year later he founded Future Publishing with a $25,000 bank loan. The new company initially focused on specialist computer publications but eventually expanded into other areas such as cycling, music, video games, technology and design, doubling in size every year for seven years. In 1994, Chris moved to the United States where he built Imagine Media, publisher of Business 2.0 magazine and creator of the popular video game users website IGN. Chris eventually merged Imagine and Future, taking the combined entity public in London in 1999, under the Future name. At its peak, it published 150 magazines and websites and employed 2,000 people.

This success allowed Chris to create a private nonprofit organization, the Sapling Foundation, with the hope of finding new ways to tackle tough global issues through media, technology, entrepreneurship and, most of all, ideas. In 2001, the foundation acquired the TED Conference, then an annual meeting of luminaries in the fields of Technology, Entertainment and Design held in Monterey, California, and Chris left Future to work full time on TED.

He expanded the conference's remit to cover all topics, including science, business and key global issues, while adding a Fellows program, which now has some 300 alumni, and the TED Prize, which grants its recipients "one wish to change the world." The TED stage has become a place for thinkers and doers from all fields to share their ideas and their work, capturing imaginations, sparking conversation and encouraging discovery along the way.

In 2006, TED experimented with posting some of its talks on the Internet. Their viral success encouraged Chris to begin positioning the organization as a global media initiative devoted to 'ideas worth spreading,' part of a new era of information dissemination using the power of online video. In June 2015, the organization posted its 2,000th talk online. The talks are free to view, and they have been translated into more than 100 languages with the help of volunteers from around the world. Viewership has grown to approximately one billion views per year.

Continuing a strategy of 'radical openness,' in 2009 Chris introduced the TEDx initiative, allowing free licenses to local organizers who wished to organize their own TED-like events. More than 8,000 such events have been held, generating an archive of 60,000 TEDx talks. And three years later, the TED-Ed program was launched, offering free educational videos and tools to students and teachers.

More profile about the speaker
Chris Anderson | Speaker | TED.com

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