Stewart Brand and Chris Anderson: Mammoths resurrected, geoengineering and other thoughts from a futurist
Stewart Brand e Chris Anderson: Mamutes ressucitados, geoengenharia e outros pensamentos de um futurista
Since the counterculture '60s, Stewart Brand has been creating our internet-worked world. Now, with biotech accelerating four times faster than digital technology, Stewart Brand has a bold new plan ... Full bioChris Anderson - TED Curator
After a long career in journalism and publishing, Chris Anderson became the curator of the TED Conference in 2002 and has developed it as a platform for identifying and disseminating ideas worth spreading. Full bio
Double-click the English transcript below to play the video.
you founded this magazine.
você fundou esta revista.
It's the original one.
É difícil de encontrar.
that I was part of at the time,
do qual eu fazia parte na época,
of hippies and New Left.
e pela Nova Esquerda.
eu era um pouco mais velho que eles.
at where the interesting flow is
vão as coisas interessantes
as an army officer,
como oficial do exército,
to find originalities:
barata pra encontrar criatividade:
else is looking,
todo mundo está olhando,
the hippies were very romantic
é que os hippies eram muito românticos
porque achava que era um objeto de poder.
it was a power device.
fold, or mutilate.
não gire, dobre ou mutile.
was kind of a counter-counterculture thing
era algo contra a contracultura,
Buckminster Fuller's idea
de Buckminster Fuller
define the world in interesting ways.
definem o mundo de formas interessantes.
disappeared one week,
por uma semana,
and engineers disappeared one week,
sumissem por uma semana,
about power to the people.
sobre dar poder ao povo.
and Steve Wozniak
poder para o povo,
don't try to change human nature,
"Não tente mudar a natureza humana",
and it does not even bend,
e nada sequer se movia,
if you want to make the world better
se queremos melhorar o mundo,
se comportem de outra forma,
differently like the New Left was,
that go in the right direction.
para ir na direção correta.
this is one of the first images,
é uma das primeiras imagens
Earth from outer space.
viram a Terra do espaço.
that in the spring of '66,
on a rooftop in San Francisco,
numa cobertura em São Francisco,
something that Fuller talked about,
em algo que Fuller falou,
that the Earth is flat
assumiam que a Terra era plana
in terms of its resources,
that it's a sphere
uma esfera e que não há muito nela,
e enxergá-la como um sistema finito.
on my hundred micrograms
mais alto com as minhas 100 mcgr
which were right in front of me
que estavam na minha frente
they were sort of fanned out like this.
Eles eram meio espalhados.
they are on a curved surface.
numa superfície curvada.
I would see that even more clearly,
isso ficaria mais evidente,
e teria o círculo da Terra do espaço.
the circle of Earth from space.
in space for 10 years --
ou apenas para partes da Terra.
or looking at just parts of the Earth.
a photograph of the whole Earth yet?
uma foto da Terra inteira ainda?"
and senators, secretaries got it,
senadores e secretários entenderam,
in the Politburo got it,
a Whole Earth Catalog saiu,
Catalog came out,
lazy and ingenious
that you see --
faixas da Whole Earth e tal,
Whole Earth banners and so on --
way to make the system go
de fazê-lo funcionar de modo interessante,
the whole system around in a big way,
todo o sistema de forma ampla,
horsing-around problems,
it will adjust to the tweak.
among many other things,
in the environmental movement,
vozes do movimento ambiental,
ou mesmo declarado
taking on a lot of,
almost believe are heresies.
acreditam que são quase heresias.
a couple of those.
and Arctic region, used to look like.
e a região Ártica costumava se parecer.
used to look like that.
se parecia com isto.
and the Serengeti now,
e no Serengeti agora,
throughout the world.
e por todo o mundo.
is to not only bring back those animals
não apenas trazer de volta esses animais
stabilization system over the long run,
de estabilização do clima em longo prazo,
there in the background
dessa paisagem são parte da história.
a 200-year goal.
um objetivo para daqui a 200 anos.
the extinction rate
para algo da época dessa paisagem.
in the background.
of bio-abundance will take longer,
vai demorar, mas vale a pena fazer.
should think of extinctions.
pensar sobre as extinções.
concerns right now
preocupação no momento
at a faster rate than ever in history.
mais rápido que nunca na história.
no meio da Sexta Extinção
of the Sixth Extinction
of the Sixth Extinction.
the de-extinction business,
de evitar a extinção
with Revive & Restore,
com o "Revive & Restore",
going on with extinction.
vem acontecendo com a extinção.
muito confusa de dados
set of data out there
indicated by the yellow triangles,
indicadas pelos triângulos amarelos
66 million years ago
66 milhões de anos atrás
para um artigo que escrevi
for a paper I wrote,
75 percent of all the species
quando 75% de todas as espécies
of five-and-a-half-million species,
das quais identificamos cerca 1,5 milhão.
one and a half million.
identified every year.
identificadas todo ano.
going on out there.
kind of used in strange ways.
sendo usado de maneiras muito estranhas.
in the New York Times,
no "New York Times" dizia:
Broad Studies Show."
estudos do Instituto Broad indicam".
and it mentions that since 1500,
e ele menciona que desde 1500
have gone extinct in the oceans,
foram extintas nos oceanos
none in the last 50 years.
nos últimos 50 anos.
into the story, and it's saying,
predatória de peixes selvagens de modo
are so overfishing the wild fishes,
the fish populations in the oceans
de peixes nos oceanos em até 38%.
are probably going to go extinct.
destas espécies será extinta.
quem escreveu essa manchete
no topo da história.
"Oh my God, start panicking,
"Oh meu Deus, entrem em pânico,
all the species in the oceans."
as espécies dos oceanos".
looking into in a little more detail,
a observar com mais detalhes,
that are considered threatened
ameaçadas de extinção em algum nível,
para a Conservação da Natureza, a UICN.
for the Conservation of Nature, the IUCN.
surveying the loss of wildlife,
que pesquisava a perda de vida selvagem,
extintas neste século ou próximo disso
por mais séculos e milênios,
for more centuries and millennia,
of a sixth extinction.
no início de uma Sexta Extinção.
mas ambientalistas sempre exageram.
a moral responsibility to,
uma responsabilidade moral
the thing that they are looking at,
muito com o que observam
talvez ninguém dará ouvidos.
maybe no one listens.
"moral isso ou moral aquilo",
moral this or moral that --
"precautionary principle" --
para, basicamente, negar as coisas.
to basically say no to things.
fish extinction, animal extinction,
a extinção de peixes e animais.
de peixes e de animais
and there is losses going on.
e há perdas acontecendo.
are caused by agriculture,
são causadas pela agricultura.
and basically makes it more condensed,
basicamente tornando-a mais condensada,
incluindo OGMs, por favor.
vertical farms in town,
ter fazendas verticais,
about how to grow pot in basements,
como plantar maconha em porões,
vegetables inside containers --
vegetais dentro de contêineres.
we can do for nature.
que podemos fazer pela natureza.
of a destruction of the landscape is good.
para a paisagem é bom.
bringing back species, rewilding ...
de volta espécies, renaturalização...
What's the story with these guys?
O que estas pessoas querem?
com o ponto anterior,
numa sobre-safra
já estamos no pico de crianças vivas.
at peak children being alive.
fewer and fewer children.
haverá cada vez menos crianças.
of human population,
da população humana
maybe nine and a half billion,
but probably going down.
a se nivelar, mas a decrescer.
estão no seu auge
that plays out in Europe
abandonadas no momento
of abandoned farmland now,
corridors in Europe.
selvagem na Europa.
so many of these farms are connected
destas fazendas são conectadas
reforested wildlife corridors,
corredores de vida selvagem
in this case, to Spain.
neste caso para a Espanha,
to the Netherlands.
There's lynx coming back.
I had no idea such a thing existed.
está voltando da Itália pra toda a Europa.
to the rest of Europe.
which is kind of interesting.
predadores, o que é interessante.
They've been missed.
que sentiam a falta deles.
when you bring back the predators,
quando esses predadores voltam,
aumenta em vez de diminuir, por vezes.
ecosystem often.
and large animals --
são animais grandes,
with sharp teeth and claws --
for a really rich ecosystem.
para um ecossistema realmente rico.
more dramatic rewilding project
mais dramático de renaturalização
these terrifying woolly mammoths?
esses mamutes peludos assustadores?
are the closest relative
os parentes mais próximos
genetically very close.
e geneticamente muito próximos.
in evolutionary history.
na história evolucionária.
are closer to woolly mammoths
dos mamutes que dos elefantes africanos,
to African elephants
dos elefantes africanos
with George Church at Harvard,
com George Church, em Harvard,
for four major traits
para quatro principais características
genome of the woolly mammoth,
genoma do mamute peludo,
"ancient DNA analysis."
into living Asian elephant cell lines,
para células de elefantes asiáticos vivos,
their proper place thanks to CRISPR.
seu espaço graças ao CRISPR.
like you did with genetic engineering.
como se fazia com engenharia genética.
basicamente, um alelo
basically, one allele,
of another allele.
Asian elephant germline cells
germinativas de elefantes asiáticos
of the traits that you're going for
dos traços que estamos procurando
através de uma mãe de aluguel,
a surrogate mother,
by conservation biologists,
curly-trunked, Asian elephant
peludo, de tronco encaracolado
in the sub-Arctic.
"Como vão levá-los lá?"
to get them there?
they don't like snow, right?"
não gostam de neve, certo?
bigger than people.
maiores que pessoas.
you can start a little thing,
algo pequeno, enrolam até ficar maior.
"Mas são 22 meses de gestação.
is tricky business, anyway.
é um assunto complicado.
the surrogate Asian elephant mothers?"
de elefantes asiáticos?"
um útero artificial e os geramos assim".
says, "That's all right.
and grow them that way."
"Sim, no próximo século, talvez!"
next century, maybe,"
this week in Nature
na Nature dessa semana
in which they've grown a lamb
que gerou um cordeiro por quatro semanas.
its gestation period.
want a world where --
querer um mundo onde...
thousands of these things
milhares desses animais
working on the woolly mammoth seriously:
trabalhando seriamente no mamute peludo:
we're kind of in the middle;
that are doing the genetics in the lab;
conduzindo genética no laboratório,
old scientist named Zimov
impressionante chamado Zimov,
who has bought into the system,
que foi trazido ao esquema.
Zimov have been, for 25 years,
"Pleistocene Park,"
de "Parque do Pleistoceno",
of Siberia that is pure tundra.
rigorosa da Sibéria, de pura tundra.
of the animals on the landscape there
dos animais na paisagem local
we saw lots of animals.
que vimos muitos animais;
and then there's the boreal forest.
e então existe a floresta boreal.
There's just a few animals there.
Apenas alguns poucos animais ali.
bois almiscarados, cavalos de Yakutia,
a lot of grazing animals:
they're bringing in some bison,
that they used to be.
que costumava existir.
e fazendo algumas outras coisas.
a tundra em pastagens.
the moss, back into grassland.
and releasing a lot of carbon dioxide
dióxido de carbono e também metano.
25 square miles,
stabilization thing.
de estabilização climática.
very absorbent to sunlight,
absorve muita luz solar
when snow is on the ground.
around the North Pole --
de todo o Polo Norte,
around the North Pole --
ao redor do Polo Norte,
um dos mais produtivos biomas do mundo,
biomes in the world,
Sergey Zimov and Nikita
Sergey Zimov e Nikita
they got for nothing,
que conseguiram de graça
"... and they make no dung!"
"Eles não produzem nenhum esterco!",
animals do, including mammoths.
animais fazem, incluindo os mamutes.
what conservation biologists call
o que biólogos de conservação
pandas na China ou coisa assim,
pandas in China or wherever --
of making life good for that animal
a vida agradável para aquele animal
para muitas criaturas e plantas
of creatures and plants,
of being self-managing,
de conservação dizer:
can back off and say,
the destructive invasives,
invasores destrutivos afastados
que você sonha em trazer de volta
that you're dreaming of de-extincting
like to move on to
how mammoths might help
sobre como mamutes podem ajudar
tropical rainforest,
sobre florestas tropicais,
you've thought about a lot.
verde que você falou muito a respeito.
is one of the most awful curses
é uma das pragas mais devastadoras
to climate change.
para a mudança climática.
this graph here, or this map.
este gráfico ou este mapa.
that you get from headlines
que você obtém de manchetes
é observar o que mais está ocorrendo,
calls "narrative violation."
chama de "violação da narrativa".
is master of putting it out there --
é mestre em divulgar isso,
civilization-threatening
com as mudanças climáticas
of greenhouse gases, especially CO2,
extra de gases do efeito estufa,
o mais rápido possível
but it's not the whole story,
mas não é a história toda.
than these fragmentary stories.
que estas histórias fragmentadas.
plus water via sunshine.
através de luz solar.
industrialized greenhouses,
transformam isto em matéria vegetal.
turn that into plant matter.
with satellites and other things,
com satélites e outras coisas
dos últimos 33 anos.
over the last 33 years or so,
leaf action going on.
de "produção primária" pelos ecologistas.
what ecologists call "primary production."
graças à mudança climática
goes up with this.
de culturas aumenta com isso.
that is sucking it down
absorvendo isto,
um pouco se decompõe e volta à superfície,
and goes right back up,
entrando no solo e se instalando lá.
do que você precisa ter em mente
of what you need to bear in mind,
and engineering climate
com engenharia climática
tweaking around with the system
para ver como cria uma melhoria.
see it's still getting better,
vê que ainda está melhorando,
back off half a turn.
ecologia é criada da mesma forma".
"Not all green is created equal."
the magnificence of the rainforest
trocar a grandeza da floresta tropical
algas, grama ou algo assim.
or grass or something like that.
os tipos de planta estão florescendo.
every form of plant is increasing.
e foi ignorado nesse estudo,
left out of this study
nos nossos oceanos.
in the oceans.
majoritariamente de micróbios,
the most important thing.
that create the atmosphere
que felizmente estamos respirando,
James Lovelock has been insisting;
que James Lovelock tem insistido;
especialmente da vida oceânica,
especially of ocean life,
of too much CO2 in the atmosphere,
de muito CO2 na atmosfera,
the ocean doing with that?
fazendo com tudo isso.
the sea level rise,
o aumento do nível do mar
with more global warming.
com mais aquecimento global,
to some of the coral reefs,
de corais, como na costa australiana.
a lot of bleaching from overheating.
por conta do aquecimento.
in our previous session on the main stage,
no palco principal,
is worth experimenting with enough
vale a pena ser testada o suficiente
in the warming aspect of all of this,
no aspecto do aquecimento disso tudo;
but usable research,
pequenas mas úteis,
do more than tweak.
fazer mais do que um ajuste.
we're going to talk about
pelos próximos minutos aqui,
was just published by Yuval Harari.
recentemente publicado por Yuval Harari.
of humans is to become as gods.
de humanos é nos tornarmos deuses.
e, provavelmente, leu o livro.
And you've probably finished the book.
completely remake ourselves
nos reconstruir por completo
totalmente novas
brand-new chapter of history.
capítulo completamente novo na história.
gosta de provocar as pessoas.
likes provoking people.
estou animado e preocupado.
I'm excited and nervous.
is trying hard to lean towards
tentando muito considerar:
part of me is saying,
as nossas considerações a respeito disso".
be a little bit careful
para o TED, não é?
isn't it, for TED?
a little bit schizophrenic.
para ser um pouco esquizofrênico.
statement that you made
uma declaração que você fez
Whole Earth Catalog,
and might as well get good at it."
também nos tornarmos bons nisso".
you've upgraded that statement.
você atualizou esta declaração.
is that documentation
aprendendo é que documentação
from somebody --
it hasn't forgiven me yet!
when somebody quoted it,
quando alguém a citou,
o que você escreveu originalmente
what you originally wrote
e podemos também nos acostumar com isso".
and might as well get used to it.'"
the stories we tell ourselves
que contamos a nós mesmos
nos ajuda a contornar isso.
and might as well get good at it,"
e podemos nos tornar bons nisso",
called "Whole Earth Discipline:
escrevendo o livro chamado
an ecopragmatism manifesto",
basically saying that we are as gods
dizendo que somos deuses
and have to get good at it.
e temos que nos tornar bons nisto.
the psychological reaction
porque a reação psicológica
as you talk about geoengineering
fala sobre geoengenharia
is that humans should be gods --
é que humanos deveriam ser deuses;
mas muitas por humildade.
não devíamos nos intrometer de tal forma.
narrative about hubris.
grega sobre insolência.
really sure of yourself,
a ficar tão seguro de si mesmo,
cautionary tale to always have at hand.
quando se trata da insolência.
I've kept for myself is:
que mantenho para mim é:
I am dead wrong about.
eu estou incrivelmente errado.
com cientistas ultimamente
with scientists these days,
looks pretty good,
se parece perfeitamente bom,
of not only suspicions
não apenas de suspeitas
mas: "O que mais está acontecendo?"
afastado de notícias falsas.
away from fake news.
do que você está tentando assimilar.
of this just for the environment:
apenas para o meio ambiente.
gostemos disso ou não,
is that, whether we like it or not,
do que acontece em planetas,
of what happens on planets,
doing it intentionally.
a fazer intencionalmente.
getting good at being a god?
a ser bons em sermos deuses?
or systems we can nudge and play with?
ou sistemas com os quais podemos testar?
da total lealdade a Buckminster Fuller
to Buckminster Fuller
and anthropologist and biologist
antropólogo, biólogo e psicólogo,
basically look at themselves.
basicamente observavam a si mesmos.
you want to always be looking at things.
sempre quer observar as coisas.
approach to geoengineering
de David Keith acerca da geoengenharia
e faz algo simplesmente.
was talking about earlier --
falava a respeito antes,
really incrementally,
see how it responds,
vê como ele responde,
algo sobre esse sistema.
that people say, quite rightly,
as pessoas estão certas ao dizer:
o sistema climático funciona.
how the climate system works.
you don't understand."
sem conseguir compreendê-lo!"
applies to the human body,
se aplica ao corpo humano,
and we're kind of glad that it has."
e estamos felizes com isso".
that is so large and complex
tão grande e complexo
an anti-hubristic approach.
teste mais se tudo parecer bem,
and dialogue and all these other things
e do diálogo e todas essas outras coisas
about earlier with Sebastian [Thrun].
mais cedo com Sebastian Thrun.
is looking for social license,
está procurando por uma licença social,
that I think is a good one,
que acredito ser adequada
nestes problemas complexos e profundos,
problematic, deep issues
paying close attention
confiem prestando atenção
as it's going forward,
na medida em que eles evoluem,
as it's going forward --
como está evoluindo,
which is fantastic --
o que é fantástico.
that has worked pretty well so far.
que até agora funcionou muito bem.
and I are optimistic is we read
estamos otimistas porque lemos
"The Better Angels of Our Nature,"
"Os Anjos Bons da Nossa Natureza",
of: things are capable of getting better,
de que as coisas possam ficar melhores,
isso e usá-las mais ostensivamente.
that happen and apply those further.
on that optimistic note,
nesta colocação mais otimista.
sempre quer se desafiar mais
are willing to challenge yourself
allowing yourself to be too certain
se sentir completamente seguro
and inspiring, actually,
na verdade, ouvir você hoje.
ABOUT THE SPEAKERS
Stewart Brand - Environmentalist, futuristSince the counterculture '60s, Stewart Brand has been creating our internet-worked world. Now, with biotech accelerating four times faster than digital technology, Stewart Brand has a bold new plan ...
Why you should listen
With biotech accelerating four times faster than digital technology, the revival of extinct species is becoming possible. Stewart Brand plans to not only bring species back but restore them to the wild.
Brand is already a legend in the tech industry for things he’s created: the Whole Earth Catalog, The WELL, the Global Business Network, the Long Now Foundation, and the notion that “information wants to be free.” Now Brand, a lifelong environmentalist, wants to re-create -- or “de-extinct” -- a few animals that’ve disappeared from the planet.
Granted, resurrecting the woolly mammoth using ancient DNA may sound like mad science. But Brand’s Revive and Restore project has an entirely rational goal: to learn what causes extinctions so we can protect currently endangered species, preserve genetic and biological diversity, repair depleted ecosystems, and essentially “undo harm that humans have caused in the past.”
Stewart Brand | Speaker | TED.com
Chris Anderson - TED Curator
After a long career in journalism and publishing, Chris Anderson became the curator of the TED Conference in 2002 and has developed it as a platform for identifying and disseminating ideas worth spreading.
Why you should listen
Chris Anderson is the Curator of TED, a nonprofit devoted to sharing valuable ideas, primarily through the medium of 'TED Talks' -- short talks that are offered free online to a global audience.
Chris was born in a remote village in Pakistan in 1957. He spent his early years in India, Pakistan and Afghanistan, where his parents worked as medical missionaries, and he attended an American school in the Himalayas for his early education. After boarding school in Bath, England, he went on to Oxford University, graduating in 1978 with a degree in philosophy, politics and economics.
Chris then trained as a journalist, working in newspapers and radio, including two years producing a world news service in the Seychelles Islands.
Back in the UK in 1984, Chris was captivated by the personal computer revolution and became an editor at one of the UK's early computer magazines. A year later he founded Future Publishing with a $25,000 bank loan. The new company initially focused on specialist computer publications but eventually expanded into other areas such as cycling, music, video games, technology and design, doubling in size every year for seven years. In 1994, Chris moved to the United States where he built Imagine Media, publisher of Business 2.0 magazine and creator of the popular video game users website IGN. Chris eventually merged Imagine and Future, taking the combined entity public in London in 1999, under the Future name. At its peak, it published 150 magazines and websites and employed 2,000 people.
This success allowed Chris to create a private nonprofit organization, the Sapling Foundation, with the hope of finding new ways to tackle tough global issues through media, technology, entrepreneurship and, most of all, ideas. In 2001, the foundation acquired the TED Conference, then an annual meeting of luminaries in the fields of Technology, Entertainment and Design held in Monterey, California, and Chris left Future to work full time on TED.
He expanded the conference's remit to cover all topics, including science, business and key global issues, while adding a Fellows program, which now has some 300 alumni, and the TED Prize, which grants its recipients "one wish to change the world." The TED stage has become a place for thinkers and doers from all fields to share their ideas and their work, capturing imaginations, sparking conversation and encouraging discovery along the way.
In 2006, TED experimented with posting some of its talks on the Internet. Their viral success encouraged Chris to begin positioning the organization as a global media initiative devoted to 'ideas worth spreading,' part of a new era of information dissemination using the power of online video. In June 2015, the organization posted its 2,000th talk online. The talks are free to view, and they have been translated into more than 100 languages with the help of volunteers from around the world. Viewership has grown to approximately one billion views per year.
Continuing a strategy of 'radical openness,' in 2009 Chris introduced the TEDx initiative, allowing free licenses to local organizers who wished to organize their own TED-like events. More than 8,000 such events have been held, generating an archive of 60,000 TEDx talks. And three years later, the TED-Ed program was launched, offering free educational videos and tools to students and teachers.
Chris Anderson | Speaker | TED.com