Stewart Brand and Chris Anderson: Mammoths resurrected, geoengineering and other thoughts from a futurist
Stewart Brand e Chris Anderson: Mamutes ressuscitados, geoengenharia e outras ideias de um futurista
Since the counterculture '60s, Stewart Brand has been creating our internet-worked world. Now, with biotech accelerating four times faster than digital technology, Stewart Brand has a bold new plan ... Full bioChris Anderson - TED Curator
After a long career in journalism and publishing, Chris Anderson became the curator of the TED Conference in 2002 and has developed it as a platform for identifying and disseminating ideas worth spreading. Full bio
Double-click the English transcript below to play the video.
you founded this magazine.
fundaste esta revista.
It's the original one.
É a original! É difícil de encontrar.
that I was part of at the time,
de que eu fazia parte naquela época,
of hippies and New Left.
e pela Nova Esquerda.
at where the interesting flow is
na direção das correntes interessantes
as an army officer,
enquanto oficial do exército,
de encontrar coisas originais:
to find originalities:
else is looking,
está a olhar,
the hippies were very romantic
é que os "hippies" eram muito românticos
it was a power device.
um instrumento do poder.
fold, or mutilate.
"não perfurar, não dobrar, não rasgar".
was kind of a counter-counterculture thing
era uma espécie de contra-contracultura
a ideia de Buckminster Fuller
Buckminster Fuller's idea
define the world in interesting ways.
definem o mundo de forma interessante.
disappeared one week,
desaparecessem uma semana,
and engineers disappeared one week,
desaparecessem uma semana,
do que uma coisa incómoda.
about power to the people.
no poder para o povo.
and Steve Wozniak
e Steve Wozniac,
e ferramentas que funcionem bem.
don't try to change human nature,
mudar a natureza humana,
and it does not even bend,
mas não resultava minimamente
podiam-se mudar facilmente.
if you want to make the world better
melhorar o mundo,
se portasse de modo diferente,
differently like the New Left was,
that go in the right direction.
para irem na direção certa.
this is one of the first images,
— esta é uma das primeiras imagens,
Earth from outer space.
viram a Terra, no espaço.
that in the spring of '66,
na primavera de 1966,
on a rooftop in San Francisco,
num telhado em São Francisco,
something that Fuller talked about,
de que Fuller falava,
que a Terra é plana
that the Earth is flat
in terms of its resources,
que é uma esfera
that it's a sphere
era "A nave espacial Terra".
on my hundred micrograms
levavam-me cada vez mais alto
which were right in front of me
que estavam mesmo à minha frente
they were sort of fanned out like this.
estar desalinhados, assim.
they are on a curved surface.
numa superfície curva.
I would see that even more clearly,
podia ver mais nitidamente,
the circle of Earth from space.
visto do espaço.
in space for 10 years --
que andávamos no espaço
tinham olhado para trás.
or looking at just parts of the Earth.
ou apenas para partes da Terra.
a photograph of the whole Earth yet?
uma fotografia da Terra inteira?
and senators, secretaries got it,
aos senadores, aos ministros,
in the Politburo got it,
Catalog came out,
o Whole Earth Catalog,
lazy and ingenious
indolente e engenhosa
that you see --
da semana passada,
Whole Earth banners and so on --
as bandeiras Whole Earth, etc. —
way to make the system go
de pôr o sistema a funcionar
the whole system around in a big way,
todo o sistema com violência,
horsing-around problems,
ele vai-se ajustando.
it will adjust to the tweak.
among many other things,
entre muitas outras coisas,
in the environmental movement,
mo movimento ambientalista
taking on a lot of,
almost believe are heresies.
quase consideram heresias.
a couple of those.
and Arctic region, used to look like.
da região sub-Ártico e Ártico.
used to look like that.
tinha este aspeto.
and the Serengeti now,
na África do Sul e no Serengeti,
throughout the world.
por todo o mundo.
is to not only bring back those animals
é não só fazer voltar esses animais
de estabilização do clima, a longo prazo,
stabilization system over the long run,
there in the background
aí no plano do fundo
a 200-year goal.
é um objetivo a 200 anos.
lá para o fim deste século,
the extinction rate
in the background.
of bio-abundance will take longer,
vai demorar mais tempo
should think of extinctions.
devemos pensar nas extinções.
concerns right now
grandes preocupações
at a faster rate than ever in history.
a um ritmo mais rápido que nunca.
of the Sixth Extinction
da Sexta Extinção
of the Sixth Extinction.
the de-extinction business,
da des-extinção,
with Revive & Restore,
com Reviver & Repor,
going on with extinction.
se está a passar com a extinção.
set of data out there
de dados muito confusos
indicated by the yellow triangles,
indicadas pelos triângulos amarelos,
66 million years ago
há 66 milhões de anos
o próximo meteoro.
for a paper I wrote,
para um artigo que escrevi:
75 percent of all the species
é quando se extinguem
of five-and-a-half-million species,
cinco milhões e meio de espécies
one and a half million.
um milhão e meio.
identified every year.
mais 14 000 espécies.
going on out there.
kind of used in strange ways.
é usado aqui de forma estranha.
apareceu uma notícia de Carl Zimmer
in the New York Times,
Broad Studies Show."
Afirma Instituto Broad".
and it mentions that since 1500,
a partir de 1500,
have gone extinct in the oceans,
15 espécies — um, cinco —
none in the last 50 years.
nenhuma nos últimos 50 anos.
into the story, and it's saying,
e ficamos a saber
are so overfishing the wild fishes,
dos peixes no seu ambiente natural
the fish populations in the oceans
da população de peixes nos oceanos
are probably going to go extinct.
vai entrar em extinção.
foi arranjar um cabeçalho,
por cima da notícia.
que diz simplesmente:
"Oh my God, start panicking,
nos oceanos".
all the species in the oceans."
looking into in a little more detail,
a observar com mais pormenor,
that are considered threatened
de 23 000 espécies
por uma ou outra razão,
for the Conservation of Nature, the IUCN.
para a Conservação da Natureza, a IUNC.
surveying the loss of wildlife,
analisando a perda de vida animal
se extinguirem no próximo século,
for more centuries and millennia,
durante mais séculos e milénios,
of a sixth extinction.
da Sexta Extinção".
a moral responsibility to,
uma responsabilidade moral,
com aquilo que observam
the thing that they are looking at,
talvez ninguém os oiça.
maybe no one listens.
moral this or moral that --
"precautionary principle" --
to basically say no to things.
dizer não a certas coisas.
fish extinction, animal extinction,
a extinção de peixes, a extinção animal,
a pujança de animais
and there is losses going on.
a empurrar, daí haver perdas.
are caused by agriculture,
são provocadas pela agricultura,
and basically makes it more condensed,
e a torne mais condensada
fazer quintas verticais nas cidades,
vertical farms in town,
about how to grow pot in basements,
sobre como cultivar em caves,
vegetables inside containers --
de vegetais em contentores
we can do for nature.
que podemos fazer pela Natureza.
mudarem-se para as cidades.
of a destruction of the landscape is good.
menos destruidora da paisagem,
bringing back species, rewilding ...
recuperar espécies, reintroduzi-las.
What's the story with these guys?
O que se passa com isso?
o pico dos terrenos agrícolas
at peak children being alive.
fewer and fewer children.
cada vez menos crianças.
of human population,
da população humana.
maybe nine and a half billion,
talvez aos nove mil e quinhentos milhões
but probably going down.
ou, provavelmente, vai baixar.
a agricultura atingiu o pico
that plays out in Europe
a que se assiste na Europa
of abandoned farmland now,
agrícola abandonados
corridors in Europe.
de vida selvagem na Europa.
so many of these farms are connected
há tantos destes terrenos interligados
reforested wildlife corridors,
florestais de vida selvagem.
in this case, to Spain.
neste caso, a Espanha.
to the Netherlands.
até aos Países Baixos.
There's lynx coming back.
Há linces a regressar.
I had no idea such a thing existed.
Eu nem sabia que existia tal coisa.
para o resto da Europa.
to the rest of Europe.
which is kind of interesting.
são todos predadores,
They've been missed.
Sentiram a falta deles.
when you bring back the predators,
aumenta, em vez de diminuir,
ecosystem often.
e os grandes animais
and large animals --
com presas e garras afiadas —
with sharp teeth and claws --
for a really rich ecosystem.
para um ecossistema deveras rico.
more dramatic rewilding project
mais drástico de repovoamento
voltar a ter estes mamutes assustadores?
these terrifying woolly mammoths?
are the closest relative
do mamute-lanoso,
genetically very close.
geneticamente são muito próximos.
in evolutionary history.
na história da evolução.
dos mamutes-lanosos
are closer to woolly mammoths
to African elephants
dos elefantes africanos
with George Church at Harvard,
em Harvard, com George Church
for four major traits
das quatro características principais
genome of the woolly mammoth,
que está bem preservado e bem estudado
"ancient DNA analysis."
para células de elefantes asiáticos vivos
into living Asian elephant cell lines,
their proper place thanks to CRISPR.
graças ao CRISPR.
like you did with genetic engineering.
como se faz na engenharia genética.
basically, one allele,
basicamente, um alelo
of another allele.
Asian elephant germline cells
de elefantes asiáticos
of the traits that you're going for
necessárias
a surrogate mother,
de uma mãe de aluguer,
by conservation biologists,
os biólogos da conservação,
curly-trunked, Asian elephant
peludo e de presas encurvadas
in the sub-Arctic.
às regiões do Ártico.
to get them there?
não gostam de neve, pois não?"
they don't like snow, right?"
bigger than people.
maiores do que as pessoas.
you can start a little thing,
podem começar com uma coisa pequena,
é uma coisa complicada.
is tricky business, anyway.
the surrogate Asian elephant mothers?"
podem morrer?"
says, "That's all right.
e criamo-los dessa forma".
and grow them that way."
"Pois, talvez no próximo século".
next century, maybe,"
this week in Nature
esta semana na Nature
in which they've grown a lamb
em que se gerou um cordeiro
its gestation period.
want a world where --
querer um mundo em que...
thousands of these things
milhares destas coisas
working on the woolly mammoth seriously:
no mamute-lanoso:
we're kind of in the middle;
— nós andamos pelo meio.
that are doing the genetics in the lab;
a trabalhar na genética em laboratório;
old scientist named Zimov
um velho cientista espantoso,
who has bought into the system,
que entrou para o sistema.
Zimov have been, for 25 years,
há 25 anos que estão a criar
"Pleistocene Park,"
"Parque Pleistoceno",
of Siberia that is pure tundra.
muito agreste da Sibéria, a tundra pura.
demonstra
of the animals on the landscape there
provavelmente um centésimo
víamos imensos animais.
we saw lots of animals.
and then there's the boreal forest.
depois há a floresta boreal.
There's just a few animals there.
Há ali poucos animais.
muitos animais de pastoreio:
a lot of grazing animals:
estão a levar bisontes
they're bringing in some bison,
that they used to be.
que havia antigamente.
a pastar,
the moss, back into grassland.
o musgo, outra vez em pastagens.
and releasing a lot of carbon dioxide
muito dióxido de carbono e algum metano.
25 square miles,
stabilization thing.
very absorbent to sunlight,
absorve muita luz solar,
when snow is on the ground.
quando há neve no solo.
toda a área em volta do Polo Norte
around the North Pole --
em volta do Polo Norte —
around the North Pole --
biomes in the world,
mais produtivos do mundo,
Sergey Zimov and Nikita
tanque militar que obtiveram de graça,
they got for nothing,
"... and they make no dung!"
"... não produzem estrume!"
animals do, including mammoths.
animais produzem, incluindo os mamutes.
what conservation biologists call
os biólogos da conservação,
pandas in China or wherever --
— os pandas na China, por exemplo —
of making life good for that animal
vida boa para esse animal
of creatures and plants,
para muitas criaturas e plantas.
of being self-managing,
ser autossuficiente,
possam ir-se embora e dizer:
can back off and say,
the destructive invasives,
as espécies invasivas destrutivas
that you're dreaming of de-extincting
que vocês pensam em des-extinguir
like to move on to
passar para aquela ideia
how mammoths might help
podem ajudar a uma Sibéria verde,
tropical rainforest,
da floresta tropical
you've thought about a lot.
uma coisa em que tens pensado muito.
é uma das pragas mais terríveis
is one of the most awful curses
to climate change.
this graph here, or this map.
that you get from headlines
com qualquer narrativa
num noticiário resumo,
se estão a passar
calls "narrative violation."
chama "violação da narrativa".
is master of putting it out there --
civilization-threatening
está a chegar rapidamente.
of greenhouse gases, especially CO2,
em especial o CO2,
but it's not the whole story,
mas não é a história toda.
than these fragmentary stories.
do que estas histórias fragmentadas.
plus water via sunshine.
mais água, através da luz solar.
industrialized greenhouses,
estufas industrializadas,
turn that into plant matter.
transformam-no em matéria vegetal.
with satellites and other things,
com satélites e outras coisas
em que, nos últimos 33 anos,
over the last 33 years or so,
leaf action going on.
os ecologistas chamam "produção primária".
what ecologists call "primary production."
graças à alteração climática,
centrais a carvão.
goes up with this.
têm aumentado.
that is sucking it down
a consumi-lo
and goes right back up,
e mantém-se no solo.
todos estes aspetos
of what you need to bear in mind,
and engineering climate
com a engenharia do clima
tweaking around with the system
em melhorias.
see it's still getting better,
aquilo que está a melhorar,
back off half a turn.
volta para trás.
"Not all green is created equal."
"Nem todo o verde é igual".
the magnificence of the rainforest
a magnificência da floresta virgem
or grass or something like that.
ou ervas, ou coisa semelhante.
every form of plant is increasing.
estão a aumentar.
abrangido por este estudo
left out of this study
in the oceans.
sobretudo o microbiano,
é talvez a coisa mais importante.
the most important thing.
that create the atmosphere
James Lovelock has been insisting;
em que James Lovelock tem insistido,
especially of ocean life,
em especial da vida nos oceanos
of too much CO2 in the atmosphere,
de demasiado CO2 na atmosfera
the ocean doing with that?
está a fazer com isso?
está a inchar.
the sea level rise,
o aumento do nível do mar
with more global warming.
com mais aquecimento global.
to some of the coral reefs,
nalguns recifes de coral,
a lot of bleaching from overheating.
devido ao excesso de calor.
in our previous session on the main stage,
no palco principal,
is worth experimenting with enough
experimentar a geoengenharia
in the warming aspect of all of this,
no aspeto do aquecimento,
investigação pequena mas útil
but usable research,
fazer mais do que beliscar".
do more than tweak.
we're going to talk about
disso nos últimos minutos
acabou de ser publicado por Yuval Harari.
was just published by Yuval Harari.
dos seres humanos será como deuses.
of humans is to become as gods.
And you've probably finished the book.
provavelmente, já acabaste de ler o livro.
é uma opinião muito radical,
completely remake ourselves
acabado por fazer uma remodelação total,
um novo capítulo radical da história.
brand-new chapter of history.
Já não me lembro.
likes provoking people.
gosta de provocar as pessoas.
I'm excited and nervous.
sinto-me entusiasmado e nervoso.
is trying hard to lean towards
esforço-me por me inclinar para:
e extremamente entusiasmante!"
part of me is saying,
um pouco mais cuidadosos
be a little bit careful
isn't it, for TED?
a little bit schizophrenic.
para ser um pouco esquizofrénico.
statement that you made
espantosa que fizeste
Whole Earth Catalog,
cheia de força:
and might as well get good at it."
e talvez possamos ser bons nisso".
you've upgraded that statement.
melhoraste esta afirmação.
sobre esta filosofia.
is that documentation
é que a documentação
from somebody --
it hasn't forgiven me yet!
e ainda não me perdoou!
when somebody quoted it,
quando alguém a citou
what you originally wrote
que escreveste inicialmente.
e talvez nos possamos habituar a isso'."
and might as well get used to it.'"
the stories we tell ourselves
que contamos a nós mesmos
ajuda-nos a contrariar isso.
and might as well get good at it,"
e talvez possamos ser bons nisso",
a fazer um livro chamado
called "Whole Earth Discipline:
An Ecopragmatist Manifesto".
basically saying that we are as gods
eu dizia que somos como deuses
and have to get good at it.
e temos que ser bons nisso.
the psychological reaction
a reação psicológica
as you talk about geoengineering
da geoengenharia
is that humans should be gods --
que os seres humanos deviam ser deuses
narrative about hubris.
grega sobre a arrogância.
really sure of yourself,
muito seguros de nós mesmos,
que dissesses isso.
cautionary tale to always have at hand.
muito importante, a ter sempre à mão.
I've kept for myself is:
que mantive para mim mesmo é:
I am dead wrong about.
em quantas coisas me enganei totalmente.
with scientists these days,
looks pretty good,
parece estupenda,
of not only suspicions
de suspeitas
away from fake news.
das noticias falsas.
e ainda bem,
of this just for the environment:
apenas para o ambiente,
é que, quer queiramos ou não,
is that, whether we like it or not,
do que acontece em planetas
of what happens on planets,
doing it intentionally.
a fazê-lo intencionalmente.
getting good at being a god?
a ser bons enquanto deuses?
or systems we can nudge and play with?
ou sistemas para beliscarmos e brincarmos?
de certa forma, me libertou
to Buckminster Fuller
and anthropologist and biologist
antropólogo e biólogo,
basically look at themselves.
olham para si mesmos.
you want to always be looking at things.
a olhar para as coisas.
approach to geoengineering
de David Keith à geoengenharia
was talking about earlier --
estava há bocado a falar —
really incrementally,
o sistema, para ver como reage,
see how it responds,
that people say, quite rightly,
de as pessoas dizerem, e com razão:
o sistema climático.
how the climate system works.
you don't understand."
num sistema que não percebemos".
applies to the human body,
ao corpo humano.
and we're kind of glad that it has."
e ficamos todos satisfeitos com isso".
that is so large and complex
tão amplo e tão complexo
an anti-hubristic approach.
de abordagem anti-arrogante.
and dialogue and all these other things
para a diversidade e diálogo
about earlier with Sebastian [Thrun].
há bocado ao Sebastian.
is looking for social license,
está à procura de autorização social
that I think is a good one,
problematic, deep issues
problemáticas e profundas
paying close attention
a quem prestem atenção
as it's going forward,
à medida que vão sendo feitas,
as it's going forward --
à medida que for sendo feito
which is fantastic --
o que é fantástico —
that has worked pretty well so far.
que até agora tem funcionado bastante bem.
and I are optimistic is we read
estamos otimistas
"The Better Angels of Our Nature,"
"The Better Angels of Our Nature,"
of: things are capable of getting better,
podem melhorar,
that happen and apply those further.
que aparecem e aplicá-las.
essa nota otimista.
on that optimistic note,
are willing to challenge yourself
estarem sempre dispostos
e às outras pessoas.
allowing yourself to be too certain
ter certezas absolutas
and inspiring, actually,
e inspirador
ABOUT THE SPEAKERS
Stewart Brand - Environmentalist, futuristSince the counterculture '60s, Stewart Brand has been creating our internet-worked world. Now, with biotech accelerating four times faster than digital technology, Stewart Brand has a bold new plan ...
Why you should listen
With biotech accelerating four times faster than digital technology, the revival of extinct species is becoming possible. Stewart Brand plans to not only bring species back but restore them to the wild.
Brand is already a legend in the tech industry for things he’s created: the Whole Earth Catalog, The WELL, the Global Business Network, the Long Now Foundation, and the notion that “information wants to be free.” Now Brand, a lifelong environmentalist, wants to re-create -- or “de-extinct” -- a few animals that’ve disappeared from the planet.
Granted, resurrecting the woolly mammoth using ancient DNA may sound like mad science. But Brand’s Revive and Restore project has an entirely rational goal: to learn what causes extinctions so we can protect currently endangered species, preserve genetic and biological diversity, repair depleted ecosystems, and essentially “undo harm that humans have caused in the past.”
Stewart Brand | Speaker | TED.com
Chris Anderson - TED Curator
After a long career in journalism and publishing, Chris Anderson became the curator of the TED Conference in 2002 and has developed it as a platform for identifying and disseminating ideas worth spreading.
Why you should listen
Chris Anderson is the Curator of TED, a nonprofit devoted to sharing valuable ideas, primarily through the medium of 'TED Talks' -- short talks that are offered free online to a global audience.
Chris was born in a remote village in Pakistan in 1957. He spent his early years in India, Pakistan and Afghanistan, where his parents worked as medical missionaries, and he attended an American school in the Himalayas for his early education. After boarding school in Bath, England, he went on to Oxford University, graduating in 1978 with a degree in philosophy, politics and economics.
Chris then trained as a journalist, working in newspapers and radio, including two years producing a world news service in the Seychelles Islands.
Back in the UK in 1984, Chris was captivated by the personal computer revolution and became an editor at one of the UK's early computer magazines. A year later he founded Future Publishing with a $25,000 bank loan. The new company initially focused on specialist computer publications but eventually expanded into other areas such as cycling, music, video games, technology and design, doubling in size every year for seven years. In 1994, Chris moved to the United States where he built Imagine Media, publisher of Business 2.0 magazine and creator of the popular video game users website IGN. Chris eventually merged Imagine and Future, taking the combined entity public in London in 1999, under the Future name. At its peak, it published 150 magazines and websites and employed 2,000 people.
This success allowed Chris to create a private nonprofit organization, the Sapling Foundation, with the hope of finding new ways to tackle tough global issues through media, technology, entrepreneurship and, most of all, ideas. In 2001, the foundation acquired the TED Conference, then an annual meeting of luminaries in the fields of Technology, Entertainment and Design held in Monterey, California, and Chris left Future to work full time on TED.
He expanded the conference's remit to cover all topics, including science, business and key global issues, while adding a Fellows program, which now has some 300 alumni, and the TED Prize, which grants its recipients "one wish to change the world." The TED stage has become a place for thinkers and doers from all fields to share their ideas and their work, capturing imaginations, sparking conversation and encouraging discovery along the way.
In 2006, TED experimented with posting some of its talks on the Internet. Their viral success encouraged Chris to begin positioning the organization as a global media initiative devoted to 'ideas worth spreading,' part of a new era of information dissemination using the power of online video. In June 2015, the organization posted its 2,000th talk online. The talks are free to view, and they have been translated into more than 100 languages with the help of volunteers from around the world. Viewership has grown to approximately one billion views per year.
Continuing a strategy of 'radical openness,' in 2009 Chris introduced the TEDx initiative, allowing free licenses to local organizers who wished to organize their own TED-like events. More than 8,000 such events have been held, generating an archive of 60,000 TEDx talks. And three years later, the TED-Ed program was launched, offering free educational videos and tools to students and teachers.
Chris Anderson | Speaker | TED.com