TEDxDeExtinction
Michael Archer: How we'll resurrect the gastric brooding frog, the Tasmanian tiger
Michael Archer: Ako vzkriesime paropuchu bruchorodú a tasmánskeho tigra
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Paropucha bruchorodá kladie vajíčka ako každá iná žaba. Potom ich však prehltne a ďalej sa vyvíjajú v jej žalúdku. Lepšie povedané, toto robila, až kým pred 30 rokmi nevyhynula. Paleontológ Michael Archer hovorí o tom, prečo by sme mali priviesť späť k životu nielen paropuchu bruchorodú, ale aj vakovlka tasmánskeho, ktorý je známy aj ako tasmánsky tiger. (Prednáška pochádza z podujatia TEDxDeExtinction.)
Michael Archer - Paleontologist
Paleontologist Michael Archer is working to bring back his favorite extinct animal: the Tasmanian tiger. Full bio
Paleontologist Michael Archer is working to bring back his favorite extinct animal: the Tasmanian tiger. Full bio
Double-click the English transcript below to play the video.
00:12
I do want to test this question we're all interested in:
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Chcel by som preveriť otázku,
ktorá nás všetkých zaujíma.
ktorá nás všetkých zaujíma.
00:15
Does extinction have to be forever?
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Vyhynuli niektoré druhy navždy?
00:18
I'm focused on two projects I want to tell you about.
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Chcel by som vám povedať o 2 projektoch.
00:21
One is the Thylacine Project.
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Prvý je Projekt vakovlk.
00:23
The other one is the Lazarus Project,
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Druhý je Projekt Lazarus
00:25
and that's focused on the gastric brooding frog.
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a je zameraný na paropuchu bruchorodú.
00:27
And it would be a fair question to ask, well,
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Dobrá otázka je,
00:29
why have we focused on these two animals?
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prečo práve tieto 2 zvieratá.
Po prvé, každé z nich reprezentuje
vlastnú jedinečnú čeľaď.
vlastnú jedinečnú čeľaď.
00:32
Well, point number one, each of them
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00:35
represents a unique family of its own.
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Prišli o celé čeľade.
00:37
We've lost a whole family.
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00:39
That's a big chunk of the global genome gone.
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Zanechalo to veľkú dieru
v celosvetovom genóme.
v celosvetovom genóme.
Chcel by som ju vyplniť.
00:41
I'd like it back.
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Po druhé, tieto zvieratá sme vyhubili my.
00:43
The second reason is that we killed these things.
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Čo sa týka vakovlkov,
ľudia zastrelili všetky, ktoré našli.
ľudia zastrelili všetky, ktoré našli.
00:47
In the case of the thylacine, regrettably,
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00:50
we shot every one that we saw. We slaughtered them.
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Zmasakrovali sme ich.
00:54
In the case of the gastric brooding frog,
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Čo sa týka paropúch bruchorodých,
00:56
we may have "fungicided" it to death.
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vyzerá to, že vyhynuli v dôsledku plesní.
00:59
There's a dreadful fungus that's sort of moving
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Svetom sa totiž šíri pleseň
Batrachochytrium dendrobatidis,
Batrachochytrium dendrobatidis,
01:01
through the world that's called the chytrid fungus,
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ktorá napáda a zabíja žaby na celom svete.
01:03
and it's nailing frogs all over the world.
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01:06
We think that's probably what got this frog,
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Šíria ju ľudia a myslíme si,
že vyhladila aj paropuchu bruchorodú.
že vyhladila aj paropuchu bruchorodú.
01:08
and humans are spreading this fungus.
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Dostávame sa k veľmi
dôležitej morálnej otázke,
dôležitej morálnej otázke,
01:10
And this introduces a very important ethical point,
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01:13
and I think you will have heard this many times
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o ktorej ste už asi v rámci
tejto témy počuli veľakrát.
tejto témy počuli veľakrát.
01:15
when this topic comes up.
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Podľa mňa, ak je jasné,
01:17
What I think is important is that,
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01:19
if it's clear that we exterminated these species,
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že sme tieto druhy vyhubili,
01:23
then I think we not only have a moral obligation
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máme nielen morálnu povinnosť zistiť,
či sa s tým dá niečo urobiť,
01:26
to see what we can do about it, but I think we've got
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ale aj sa o to skutočne pokúsiť,
ak je to možné.
ak je to možné.
01:28
a moral imperative to try to do something, if we can.
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01:32
Okay. Let me talk to you about the Lazarus Project.
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Dobre. Poviem vám o Projekte Lazarus.
01:35
It's a frog. And you think, frog.
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Je o žabe. Pomyslíte si: „O žabe?“
01:38
Yeah, but this was not just any frog.
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Nebola to však len taká obyčajná žaba.
01:41
Unlike a normal frog, which lays its eggs in the water
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Obyčajné žaby nakladú vajíčka do vody
a odídu dúfajúc, že sa žabkám bude dariť.
01:44
and goes away and wishes its froglets well,
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01:47
this frog swallowed its fertilized eggs,
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Paropuchy prehltli oplodnené vajíčka
bez toho, aby ich strávili.
bez toho, aby ich strávili.
01:50
swallowed them into the stomach where it should be having food,
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01:54
didn't digest the eggs,
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Takto sa ich žalúdok zmenil na maternicu.
01:56
and turned its stomach into a uterus.
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01:59
In the stomach, the eggs went on to develop into tadpoles,
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Z vajíčok sa tam vyvinuli žubrienky
02:02
and in the stomach, the tadpoles went on to develop into frogs,
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a z tých sa tam vyvinuli žabky,
ktoré tam rástli,
ktoré tam rástli,
02:06
and they grew in the stomach until eventually
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až kým dospelej žabe nehrozilo puknutie.
02:09
the poor old frog was at risk of bursting apart.
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Potom stačilo krátke zakašľanie a začkanie
a z úst jej vytryskol prúd malých žabiek.
a z úst jej vytryskol prúd malých žabiek.
02:12
It has a little cough and a hiccup, and out comes
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02:14
sprays of little frogs.
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02:16
Now, when biologists saw this, they were agog.
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Biológovia z toho boli celí preč.
Bolo to niečo neuveriteľné.
02:19
They thought, this is incredible.
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02:20
No animal, let alone a frog, has been known to do this,
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Žiadne známe zviera, a už vôbec nie žaba,
nedokázalo zmeniť niektorý
zo svojich orgánov na úplne iný.
zo svojich orgánov na úplne iný.
02:24
to change one organ in the body into another.
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02:26
And you can imagine the medical world went nuts over this as well.
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Vyvolalo to ošiaľ aj v medicíne.
02:30
If we could understand how that frog is managing
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Ak by sme pochopili,
ako funguje brucho tejto žaby,
02:33
the way its tummy works, is there information
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mohli by sme to použiť a pomôcť tak ľuďom?
02:36
here that we need to understand or could usefully use
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02:39
to help ourselves?
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02:41
Now, I'm not suggesting we want to raise our babies in our stomach,
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Nenavrhujem, aby sa
naše deti vyvíjali v žalúdku,
naše deti vyvíjali v žalúdku,
02:44
but I am suggesting it's possible we might want
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ale že by sme sa mohli naučiť ovládať
produkciu žalúdočných štiav.
produkciu žalúdočných štiav.
02:46
to manage gastric secretion in the gut.
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02:48
And just as everybody got excited about it, bang!
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V čase, keď sa pre to
nadchlo najviac ľudí... bum!
nadchlo najviac ľudí... bum!
Žaby vymreli.
02:51
It was extinct.
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02:53
I called up my friend, Professor Mike Tyler
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Zavolal som profesorovi Mikeovi Tylerovi
z Adelaidskej univerzity.
z Adelaidskej univerzity.
02:56
in the University of Adelaide.
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Bol to posledný človek,
02:57
He was the last person who had this frog,
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ktorý mal v laboratóriu
kolóniu týchto žiab.
kolóniu týchto žiab.
03:00
a colony of these things, in his lab.
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Opýtal som: „Mike, náhodou...",
bolo to asi pred 30 alebo 40 rokmi,
bolo to asi pred 30 alebo 40 rokmi,
03:02
And I said, "Mike, by any chance -- "
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03:04
this was 30 or 40 years ago —
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03:05
"by any chance had you kept any frozen tissue of this frog?"
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"...nezostali ti náhodou zmrazené
vzorky tkaniva tej žaby?“
vzorky tkaniva tej žaby?“
03:09
And he thought about it, and he went to his deep freezer,
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Zamyslel sa a išiel prehľadať mrazničku,
kde udržiaval teplotu - 20 °C
kde udržiaval teplotu - 20 °C
03:12
minus 20 degrees centigrade,
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03:14
and he poured through everything in the freezer,
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03:15
and there in the bottom was a jar
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a na dne našiel pohár,
03:17
and it contained tissues of these frogs.
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v ktorom bolo tkanivo týchto žiab.
03:20
This was very exciting, but there was no reason
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Bol to vzrušujúci objav,
ale nemohli sme si byť istí,
03:23
why we should expect that this would work,
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že to bude fungovať,
03:25
because this tissue had not had any antifreeze put in it,
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pretože do vzoriek neboli pridané
nemrznúce zmesi - kryoprotektanty,
nemrznúce zmesi - kryoprotektanty,
03:29
cryoprotectants, to look after it when it was frozen.
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ktoré by ich uchovali
v dobrom stave po zmrazení.
v dobrom stave po zmrazení.
03:33
And normally, when water freezes, as you know, it expands,
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Voda po zmrazení expanduje
a to platí aj pre bunky.
a to platí aj pre bunky.
03:35
and the same thing happens in a cell.
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03:37
If you freeze tissues, the water expands,
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Voda v tkanive po zmrazení expanduje,
03:39
damages or bursts the cell walls.
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čo poškodí alebo roztrhá bunkové steny.
03:41
Well, we looked at the tissue under the microscope.
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Tkanivo sme dali pod mikroskop.
Bunkové steny vyzerali nedotknuté.
03:44
It actually didn't look bad. The cell walls looked intact.
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Povedali sme si, že to skúsime.
03:46
So we thought, let's give it a go.
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03:48
What we did is something called
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Použili sme metódu,
ktorá sa volá prenos jadra
somatických buniek.
somatických buniek.
03:50
somatic cell nuclear transplantation.
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03:53
We took the eggs of a related species, a living frog,
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Zobrali sme vajíčko
príbuzného druhu žijúcej žaby
príbuzného druhu žijúcej žaby
03:57
and we inactivated the nucleus of the egg.
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a inaktivovali sme jeho jadro.
04:00
We used ultraviolet radiation to do that.
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Na to sme použili ultrafialové žiarenie.
Potom sme zobrali bunkové jadro
z „mŕtveho“ tkaniva vyhynutej žaby
z „mŕtveho“ tkaniva vyhynutej žaby
04:02
And then we took the dead nucleus from the dead tissue
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04:06
of the extinct frog and we inserted those nuclei into that egg.
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a vniesli sme ho do pripraveného vajíčka.
04:10
Now by rights, this is kind of like a cloning project,
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Na prvý pohľad to vyzerá
ako klonovanie použité pri Dolly,
ako klonovanie použité pri Dolly,
04:13
like what produced Dolly, but it's actually very different,
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ale pri Dolly sa prenášali
živé bunky ovce do živých buniek ovce.
živé bunky ovce do živých buniek ovce.
04:16
because Dolly was live sheep into live sheep cells.
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04:19
That was a miracle, but it was workable.
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Bol to zázrak, ale uskutočniteľný.
04:21
What we're trying to do is take a dead nucleus from an extinct species
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My sme chceli preniesť mŕtve
bunkové jadrá vyhynutého druhu
bunkové jadrá vyhynutého druhu
04:25
and put it into a completely different species and expect that to work.
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do buniek úplne iného druhu
dúfajúc, že to bude fungovať.
dúfajúc, že to bude fungovať.
04:29
Well, we had no real reason to expect it would,
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Nemali sme reálny dôvod očakávať úspech.
04:31
and we tried hundreds and hundreds of these.
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Urobili sme stovky a stovky pokusov.
04:34
And just last February, the last time we did these trials,
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Pri pokusoch pred rokom
vo februári som videl,
vo februári som videl,
04:37
I saw a miracle starting to happen.
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ako sa začal diať zázrak.
04:40
What we found was, most of these eggs didn't work,
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Vo väčšine prípadov sa nič sa nestalo,
04:44
but then suddenly one of them began to divide.
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ale potom sa v jednom vajíčku
začali deliť bunky.
začali deliť bunky.
04:47
That was so exciting. And then the egg divided again.
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Bolo to vzrušujúce.
Potom sa rozdelili opäť.
A opäť.
04:50
And then again. And pretty soon, we had
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Čoskoro sme mali embryo
v ranom štádiu so stovkami buniek.
v ranom štádiu so stovkami buniek.
04:53
early stage embryos with hundreds of cells forming those.
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Otestovali sme DNA v niektorých bunkách
04:57
We even DNA tested some of these cells,
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04:59
and the DNA of the extinct frog is in those cells.
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a našli sme v nich DNA vyhynutej žaby.
Sme z toho nadšení.
05:04
So we're very excited. This is not a tadpole.
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Nevytvorili sme žubrienku. Ani žabu.
05:06
It's not a frog. But it's a long way along the journey
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Zašli sme však ďaleko na ceste k tomu,
že privedieme späť k životu vyhynutý druh.
05:10
to producing, or bringing back, an extinct species.
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05:13
And this is news. We haven't announced this publicly before.
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Túto novinku sme ešte nezverejnili.
05:15
We're excited. We've got to get past this point.
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Sme nadšení, ale musíme zájsť ďalej.
05:19
We now want this ball of cells to start to gastrulate,
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Chceme, aby zo zhluku buniek
vznikla gastrula
vznikla gastrula
05:22
to turn in so that it will produce the other tissues.
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a aby sa začali vytvárať ostatné tkanivá,
05:25
It'll go on and produce a tadpole and then a frog.
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až kým by sa nevyvinula žubrienka a žaba.
Sledujte to. Som presvedčený,
05:28
Watch this space. I think we're going to have this frog
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že táto žaba bude už čoskoro
skákať od radosti, že je opäť na svete.
skákať od radosti, že je opäť na svete.
05:31
hopping glad to be back in the world again.
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05:33
Thank you. (Applause)
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(potlesk)
Ďakujem.
(potlesk)
05:39
We haven't done it yet, but keep those applause ready.
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Ešte sme to nedokázali,
ale ten potlesk si pripravte.
ale ten potlesk si pripravte.
05:42
The second project I want to talk to you about is the Thylacine Project.
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Druhý projekt, o ktorom vám
chcem povedať, je Projekt vakovlk.
chcem povedať, je Projekt vakovlk.
05:47
The thylacine looks a bit, to most people, like a dog,
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Podľa väčšiny ľudí vakovlk
vyzerá tak trochu ako pes,
vyzerá tak trochu ako pes,
alebo ako tiger, pretože má pruhy.
05:50
or maybe like a tiger, because it has stripes.
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05:52
But it's not related to any of those.
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Nemá však s nimi nič spoločné.
Bol to vačkovec.
05:54
It's a marsupial. It raised its young in a pouch,
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Mláďatá žili vo vaku rodiča,
podobne ako je to u koál alebo kengúr.
05:57
like a koala or a kangaroo would do,
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05:59
and it has a long history, a long, fascinating history,
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Dlhá a fascinujúca história vakovlka
siaha až 25 miliónov rokov do minulosti.
siaha až 25 miliónov rokov do minulosti.
06:05
that goes back 25 million years.
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06:07
But it's also a tragic history.
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Je však aj tragická.
06:10
The first one that we see occurs in the ancient rainforests
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Prvé vakovlky žili v austrálskych
dažďových pralesoch pred 25 miliónmi rokov
dažďových pralesoch pred 25 miliónmi rokov
06:14
of Australia about 25 million years ago,
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06:16
and the National Geographic Society is helping us
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a fosílie z náleziska Riversleigh skúmame
s pomocou Národnej zemepisnej spoločnosti.
s pomocou Národnej zemepisnej spoločnosti.
06:19
to explore these fossil deposits. This is Riversleigh.
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Našli sa tu fosílie úžasných zvierat.
06:23
In those fossil rocks are some amazing animals.
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06:26
We found marsupial lions.
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Našli sme levy - vačkovce.
06:28
We found carnivorous kangaroos.
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Našli sme mäsožravé kengury.
06:31
It's not what you usually think about as a kangaroo,
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Neboli to obyčajné kengury,
tieto žrali mäso.
tieto žrali mäso.
06:32
but these are meat-eating kangaroos.
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06:34
We found the biggest bird in the world,
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Našli sme aj najväčšieho vtáka na svete.
06:37
bigger than that thing that was in Madagascar,
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Je väčší ako ten z Madagaskaru
a tiež to bol mäsožravec.
a tiež to bol mäsožravec.
06:39
and it too was a flesh-eater. It was a giant, weird duck.
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Bola to obrovská čudná kačica.
06:43
And crocodiles were not behaving at that time either.
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Krokodíly sa v tom čase správali inak.
06:45
You think of crocodiles as doing their ugly thing,
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Krokodíly si predstavujete,
ako ležia vo vode a striehnu.
06:48
sitting in a pool of water.
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06:49
These crocodiles were actually out on the land
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Tie pradávne krokodíly však behali po zemi
06:52
and they were even climbing trees and jumping on prey
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a dokonca sa šplhali aj na stromy,
z ktorých skákali na korisť.
06:55
on the ground.
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06:57
We had, in Australia, drop crocs. They really do exist.
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V Austrálii skutočne
zo stromov padali krokodíly.
zo stromov padali krokodíly.
07:02
But what they were dropping on was not only
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Padali nielen na rôzne zvláštne zvieratá,
07:04
other weird animals but also thylacines.
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ale aj na vakovlky.
V pradávnych lesoch sme našli pozostatky
piatich druhov vakovlkov rôznych veľkostí,
piatich druhov vakovlkov rôznych veľkostí,
07:07
There were five different kinds of thylacines in those ancient forests,
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07:10
and they ranged from great big ones to middle-sized ones
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od veľmi veľkých, cez stredné až po tie,
07:15
to one that was about the size of a chihuahua.
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ktoré boli asi také veľké ako čivavy.
07:19
Paris Hilton would have been able to carry
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Takého by mohla Paris Hilton
nosiť v kabelke,
nosiť v kabelke,
07:20
one of these things around in a little handbag,
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kým by na ňu zo stromu nespadol krokodíl.
07:23
until a drop croc landed on her.
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07:25
At any rate, it was a fascinating place,
155
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1977
Bolo to fascinujúce miesto,
07:27
but unfortunately, Australia didn't stay this way.
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ale Austrália sa nanešťastie zmenila.
07:30
Climate change has affected the world for a long period of time,
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Klimatické zmeny menia svet už dlhú dobu
07:33
and gradually, the forests disappeared,
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a lesy postupne zmizli,
krajina začala vyschýnať
07:36
the country began to dry out,
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07:38
and the number of kinds of thylacines began to decline,
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a počet vakovlčích druhov začal klesať.
07:40
until by five million years ago, only one left.
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Pred 5 miliónmi rokov ostal už len jeden.
07:43
By 10,000 years ago, they had disappeared
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1980
Pred 10 000 rokmi
úplne zmizli z Novej Guinei
úplne zmizli z Novej Guinei
07:45
from New Guinea, and unfortunately
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3864
a pred 4 000 rokmi niekto, nevieme kto,
nanešťastie priniesol do Austrálie dingov,
nanešťastie priniesol do Austrálie dingov,
07:49
by 4,000 years ago, somebodies,
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07:52
we don't know who this was, introduced dingoes --
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čo je veľmi starý druh divých psov.
07:55
this is a very archaic kind of a dog — into Australia.
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07:58
And as you can see, dingoes are very similar
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2068
Tvarom tela sa veľmi podobajú vakovlkom,
08:00
in their body form to thylacines.
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2195
čo asi viedlo k tomu, že začali súperiť.
08:03
That similarity meant they probably competed.
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3050
08:06
They were eating the same kinds of foods.
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1431
Žrali to isté žrádlo.
08:07
It's even possible that aborigines were keeping
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Je možné, že niektorí domorodci
dingov chovali ako domáce zvieratá,
dingov chovali ako domáce zvieratá,
08:10
some of these dingoes as pets, and therefore
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2893
vďaka čomu mali v boji o prežitie výhodu.
08:13
they may have had an advantage in the battle for survival.
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08:16
All we know is, soon after the dingoes were brought in,
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2507
S istotou vieme len to,
že krátko potom ako sa v Austrálii
zjavili dingovia, tam vyhynuli vakovlky,
zjavili dingovia, tam vyhynuli vakovlky,
08:18
thylacines were extinct in the Australian mainland,
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2605
08:21
and after that they only survived in Tasmania.
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ktoré potom žili už len v Tasmánii.
08:25
Then, unfortunately, the next sad part of the thylacine story
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Nešťastný vakovlčí príbeh pokračuje
príchodom Európanov v roku 1788.
príchodom Európanov v roku 1788.
08:28
is that Europeans arrived in 1788, and they brought
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Tí so sebou priniesli veci,
ktoré si cenili, vrátane oviec.
ktoré si cenili, vrátane oviec.
08:31
with them the things they valued, and that included sheep.
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08:35
They took one look at the thylacine in Tasmania,
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Pri prvom pohľade na vakovlky si povedali:
08:39
and they thought, hang on, this is not going to work.
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„To nemôže fungovať.
Zožerú nám všetky ovce.“
08:42
That guy is going to eat all our sheep.
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510037
2805
08:44
That was not what happened, actually.
183
512842
1981
V skutočnosti to tak nebolo.
08:46
Wild dogs did eat a few of the sheep, but the thylacine got a bad rap.
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Pár oviec zožrali divé psy,
ale vakovlky získali zlú povesť.
08:50
But immediately, the government said, that's it,
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2377
Vláda sa okamžite rozhodla zbaviť sa ich
08:53
let's get rid of them, and they paid people
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3317
a platila ľuďom za to,
že zabili všetky vakovlky, ktoré našli.
08:56
to slaughter every one that they saw.
187
524339
1818
08:58
By the early 1930s, 3,000 to 4,000 thylacines
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Do začiatku 30. rokov minulého storočia
bolo zabitých 3 000 až 4 000 vakovlkov.
bolo zabitých 3 000 až 4 000 vakovlkov.
09:03
had been murdered. It was a disaster,
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Bola to katastrofa
09:06
and they were about to hit the wall.
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a koniec už nebol ďaleko.
09:08
Have a look at this bit of film footage.
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Pozrite sa na toto video.
09:11
It makes me very sad, because, while, it's a fascinating animal,
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3779
Je smutné, že hoci sme mali technológiu,
09:15
and it's amazing to think that we had the technology to film it
193
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4962
aby sme toto fascinujúce zviera
zachytili na film predtým,
zachytili na film predtým,
09:20
before it actually plunged off that cliff of extinction,
194
548368
4100
ako urobilo posledný krok
na ceste k vyhynutiu,
na ceste k vyhynutiu,
nanešťastie nám vtedy
absolútne nezáležalo na tom,
absolútne nezáležalo na tom,
09:24
we didn't, unfortunately, at this same time, have
195
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2829
09:27
a molecule of concern about the welfare for this species.
196
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3917
ako sa tomuto druhu darí.
09:31
These are photos of the last surviving thylacine, Benjamin,
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559214
3393
Tu vidíte posledného vakovlka Benjamina,
09:34
who was in the Beaumaris Zoo in Hobart.
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2950
ktorého držali v hobartskej zoo.
09:37
To add insult to injury, having swept this species
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565557
3399
Akoby nestačilo,
že ľudia jeho druh skoro
úplne zniesli zo sveta,
úplne zniesli zo sveta,
09:40
nearly off the table, this animal, when it died of neglect,
200
568956
4465
Benjamin zomrel na následky zanedbania,
09:45
the keepers didn't let it into the hutch
201
573421
1924
keď ho počas chladnej noci
nepustili do búdy.
nepustili do búdy.
09:47
on a cold night in Hobart. It died of exposure,
202
575345
4181
Zomrel na podchladenie
09:51
and in the morning, when they found the body of Benjamin,
203
579526
2308
a keď ráno našli jeho telo,
09:53
they still cared so little for this animal
204
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3032
stále im na ňom záležalo tak málo,
09:56
that they threw the body in the dump.
205
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3365
že jeho mŕtvolu len tak
hodili na smetisko.
hodili na smetisko.
10:00
Does it have to stay this way?
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3061
Musia veci ostať tak, ako sú?
10:03
In 1990, I was in the Australian Museum.
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2770
V roku 1990 som bol v Austrálskom múzeu.
10:06
I was fascinated by thylacines. I've always been obsessed with these animals.
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3907
Vakovlky ma vždy fascinovali.
Bol som nimi priam posadnutý.
10:09
And I was studying skulls, trying to figure out
209
597969
1812
V múzeu som skúmal ich lebky
10:11
their relationships to other sorts of animals,
210
599781
2631
a zisťoval ich vzťahy k iným zvieratám,
10:14
and I saw this jar, and here, in the jar,
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3381
keď som zrazu uvidel tento pohár,
v ktorom bola sučka vakovlka,
10:17
was a little girl thylacine pup, perhaps six months old.
212
605793
4559
ktorá mohla mať tak 6 mesiacov.
10:22
The guy who had found it and killed the mother
213
610352
2546
Človek, ktorý zabil jej matku,
ju naložil do alkoholu.
ju naložil do alkoholu.
10:24
had pickled the pup and they pickled it in alcohol.
214
612898
3573
Som paleontológ, ale viem,
10:28
I'm a paleontologist, but I still knew alcohol was a DNA preservative.
215
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3702
že alkohol je konzervačný prostriedok.
Písal sa však rok 1990.
10:32
But this was 1990, and I asked my geneticist friends,
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4083
Keď som sa opýtal známych genetikov,
10:36
couldn't we think about going into this pup
217
624256
2263
či by sme nemohli odobrať vzorku DNA,
10:38
and extracting DNA, if it's there,
218
626519
3152
ak tam stále nejaká bola,
10:41
and then somewhere down the line in the future,
219
629671
1984
ktorú by sme potom neskôr
použili na oživenie vakovlkov,
použili na oživenie vakovlkov,
10:43
we'll use this DNA to bring the thylacine back?
220
631655
2115
len sa zasmiali.
10:45
The geneticists laughed. But this was six years before Dolly.
221
633770
4784
Bolo to 6 rokov pred naklonovaním Dolly.
Klonovanie bola sci-fi. Nič skutočné.
10:50
Cloning was science fiction. It had not happened.
222
638554
2927
10:53
But then suddenly cloning did happen.
223
641481
2650
Potom sa však zrazu stalo skutočnosťou.
10:56
And I thought, when I became director
224
644131
2036
Keď som sa stal riaditeľom
Austrálskeho múzea,
Austrálskeho múzea,
10:58
of the Australian Museum, I'm going to give this a go.
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646167
2435
chcel som to skúsiť.
11:00
I put a team together.
226
648602
1488
Vybral som si tím ľudí.
11:02
We went into that pup to see what was in there,
227
650090
3115
Pozreli sme sa na to šteniatko
a naozaj sme našli vakolvčiu DNA.
11:05
and we did find thylacine DNA. It was a eureka moment.
228
653205
3047
Išlo o prelom. Boli sme nadšení.
11:08
We were very excited.
229
656252
1018
11:09
Unfortunately, we also found a lot of human DNA.
230
657270
3879
Nanešťastie sme však našli
aj množstvo ľudskej DNA.
aj množstvo ľudskej DNA.
11:13
Every old curator who'd been in that museum
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661149
3117
Každý starý kurátor múzea
videl tento nádherný exemplár,
videl tento nádherný exemplár,
11:16
had seen this wonderful specimen,
232
664266
1582
11:17
put their hand in the jar, pulled it out and thought,
233
665848
2192
vytiahol ho z pohára a pomyslel si:
„Fíha, to čumím,“ a čľup...
pustil ho naspäť.
pustil ho naspäť.
11:20
"Wow, look at that," plop, dropped it back in the jar,
234
668040
2614
11:22
contaminating this specimen.
235
670654
1866
Týmto vzorku kontaminoval.
11:24
And that was a worry. If the goal here was to get the DNA out
236
672520
3693
To nám robilo starosti.
Chceli sme získať vakovlčiu DNA,
11:28
and use the DNA down the track to try to bring a thylacine back,
237
676213
3747
aby sme sa ho pokúsili znovu oživiť.
11:31
what we didn't want happening when the information
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2647
Nechceli sme, aby potom,
čo do „stroja“ zadáme všetky informácie,
čo do „stroja“ zadáme všetky informácie,
11:34
was shoved into the machine and the wheel turned around
239
682607
1929
potiahneme za páku a zablikajú svetlá,
11:36
and the lights flashed, was to have a wizened old
240
684536
2363
na druhom konci vypadol nejaký
vráskavý starý kurátor.
vráskavý starý kurátor.
11:38
horrible curator pop out the other end of the machine. (Laughter)
241
686899
3584
Toho kurátora by to potešilo,
11:42
It would've kept the curator very happy,
242
690483
1658
11:44
but it wasn't going to keep us happy.
243
692141
1817
ale nás nie.
11:45
So we went back to these specimens and we started digging around,
244
693958
3199
Pozreli sme sa ešte raz na náš exemplár,
11:49
and particularly we looked into the teeth of skulls,
245
697157
3281
pričom sme sa sústredili
hlavne na oblasť zubov,
hlavne na oblasť zubov,
11:52
hard parts where humans had not been able to get their fingers,
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700438
3031
kde sa ľuďom nepodarilo vopchať prsty.
11:55
and we found much better quality DNA.
247
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2428
Našli sme oveľa kvalitnejšiu DNA.
11:57
We found nuclear mitochondrial genes. It's there.
248
705897
2786
Našli sme mitochondriálnu DNA.
12:00
So we got it.
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708683
1121
Získali sme ju.
12:01
Okay. What could we do with this stuff?
250
709804
2284
Čo by sme s ňou mohli dokázať?
12:04
Well, George Church in his book, "Regenesis,"
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712088
2032
George Church v knihe Regenéza spomína
12:06
has mentioned many of the techniques that are rapidly advancing
252
714120
3359
mnoho techník na prácu s fragmentmi DNA,
ktoré veľmi rýchlo napredujú.
ktoré veľmi rýchlo napredujú.
12:09
to work with fragmented DNA.
253
717479
1766
12:11
We would hope that we'll be able to get that DNA back
254
719245
3084
Dúfame, že budeme schopní spracovať
DNA tak, aby bola životaschopná
DNA tak, aby bola životaschopná
12:14
into a viable form, and then, much like we've done with the Lazarus Project,
255
722329
3852
a potom ju vniesť do vajíčka hostiteľského
druhu podobne ako pri Projekte Lazarus.
druhu podobne ako pri Projekte Lazarus.
12:18
get that stuff into an egg of a host species.
256
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3806
Musí to byť iný druh.
12:21
It has to be a different species.
257
729987
1289
12:23
What could it be? Why couldn't it be a Tasmanian devil?
258
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2867
Ktorý? Čo takto diabol tasmánsky?
12:26
They're related distantly to thylacines.
259
734143
2137
Je to priamy príbuzný vakovlka.
12:28
And then the Tasmanian devil is going to pop
260
736280
2297
Z diabla tasmánskeho by potom
vypadol malý vakovlk.
vypadol malý vakovlk.
12:30
a thylacine out the south end.
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2711
Tu sa ozvú kritici projektu:
12:33
Critics of this project say, hang on.
262
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2753
„Vakovlk a diabol tasmánsky?
12:36
Thylacine, Tasmanian devil? That's going to hurt.
263
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4180
To bude bolieť.“
12:40
No, it's not. These are marsupials.
264
748221
3054
Nie, nebude. Sú to vačkovce.
Mláďatá sú pri pôrode
asi také veľké ako fazuľky.
asi také veľké ako fazuľky.
12:43
They give birth to babies that are the size of a jelly bean.
265
751275
2615
12:45
That Tasmanian devil's not even going to know it gave birth.
266
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3233
Samička diabla tasmánskeho
si pôrod ani nevšime.
si pôrod ani nevšime.
12:49
It is, shortly, going to think it's got the ugliest
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757123
2971
Možno si však bude myslieť,
že porodila najškaredšie mláďa na svete,
12:52
Tasmanian devil baby in the world,
268
760094
1878
12:53
so maybe it'll need some help to keep it going.
269
761972
4091
a asi bude potrebovať pomoc,
aby ho nezavrhla.
aby ho nezavrhla.
12:58
Andrew Pask and his colleagues have demonstrated
270
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2653
Andrew Pask spolu s kolegami nám ukázali,
13:00
this might not be a waste of time.
271
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1895
že to nie je zbytočná strata času.
13:02
And it's sort of in the future, we haven't got there yet,
272
770611
2192
Náš cieľ je ešte len hudba budúcnosti,
ale už sa nad tým musíme zamýšľať.
13:04
but it's the kind of thing we want to think about.
273
772803
1643
13:06
They took some of this same pickled thylacine DNA
274
774446
3686
Pask s kolegami zobrali DNA
toho „naloženého“ vakovlčieho mláďaťa,
toho „naloženého“ vakovlčieho mláďaťa,
13:10
and they spliced it into a mouse genome,
275
778132
3420
vniesli ju do myšieho genómu
a označkovali ju tak,
a označkovali ju tak,
13:13
but they put a tag on it so that anything
276
781552
2560
aby boli všetky časti myšieho mláďaťa
obsahujúce vakovlčiu DNA modrozelené.
obsahujúce vakovlčiu DNA modrozelené.
13:16
that this thylacine DNA produced
277
784112
2799
13:18
would appear blue-green in the mouse baby.
278
786911
3222
Inak povedané, boli schopní rozoznať
tkanivo obsahujúce vakovlčiu DNA.
tkanivo obsahujúce vakovlčiu DNA.
13:22
In other words, if thylacine tissues were being produced
279
790133
2374
13:24
by the thylacine DNA, it would be able to be recognized.
280
792507
3408
13:27
When the baby popped up, it was filled with blue-green tissues.
281
795915
3916
To mláďa prišlo na svet
plné modrozeleného tkaniva.
plné modrozeleného tkaniva.
13:31
And that tells us if we can get that genome back together,
282
799831
2732
Vieme teda, že ak tento genóm poskladáme
13:34
get it into a live cell, it's going to produce thylacine stuff.
283
802563
4793
a vložíme ho do živej bunky,
bude produkovať vakovlkov.
13:39
Is this a risk?
284
807356
1665
Je to riskantné?
13:41
You've taken the bits of one animal
285
809021
2056
Zoberieme kúsky určitého zvieraťa
13:43
and you've mixed them into the cell of a different kind of an animal.
286
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2492
a zamiešame ich do buniek iného zvieraťa.
13:45
Are we going to get a Frankenstein?
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813569
2139
Nevznikne Frankensteinovo monštrum?
13:47
You know, some kind of weird hybrid chimera?
288
815708
2596
Akási zvláštna hybridná chiméra?
13:50
And the answer is no.
289
818304
1487
Odpoveď znie nie.
Ak do hybridnej bunky vnesieme
len jadrovú vakovlčiu DNA,
len jadrovú vakovlčiu DNA,
13:51
If the only nuclear DNA that goes into this hybrid cell
290
819791
3413
13:55
is thylacine DNA, that's the only thing that can pop out
291
823204
2457
diabol tasmánsky
môže porodiť len vakovlka.
môže porodiť len vakovlka.
13:57
the other end of the devil.
292
825661
2392
14:00
Okay, if we can do this, could we put it back?
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4002
Dobre, ak to dokážeme, vypustíme ho?
14:04
This is a key question for everybody.
294
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1781
To je kľúčová otázka.
14:05
Does it have to stay in a laboratory,
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833836
1658
Ostane v laboratóriu,
alebo ho vypustíme do prírody?
14:07
or could we put it back where it belongs?
296
835494
1683
Mohli by sme ho vrátiť späť na trón
tasmánskych dravcov a obnoviť ekosystém?
tasmánskych dravcov a obnoviť ekosystém?
14:09
Could we put it back in the throne of the king of beasts
297
837177
2569
14:11
in Tasmania where it belongs, restore that ecosystem?
298
839746
2656
14:14
Or has Tasmania changed so much
299
842402
2794
Nezmenila sa však už Tasmánia natoľko,
14:17
that that's no longer possible?
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845196
1630
že to nie je možné?
14:18
I've been to Tasmania. I've been to many of the areas
301
846826
3045
Bol som v Tasmánii.
Navštívil som miesta, kde žili vakovlky.
14:21
where the thylacines were common.
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1422
14:23
I've even spoken to people, like Peter Carter here,
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Rozprával som sa ľuďmi
ako je Peter Carter.
ako je Peter Carter.
14:26
who when I spoke to him was 90 years old,
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Keď som s ním hovoril, mal 90 rokov,
14:28
but in 1926, this man and his father and his brother
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ale v roku 1926 chytal vakovlky
spolu s otcom a bratom.
spolu s otcom a bratom.
14:32
caught thylacines. They trapped them.
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Chytali ich do pascí.
14:35
And it just, when I spoke to this man,
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Keď som sa s ním rozprával,
14:37
I was looking in his eyes and thinking,
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pozrel som sa mu do očí a uvedomil som si,
14:39
behind those eyes is a brain
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že za nimi je mozog,
14:42
that has memories of what thylacines feel like,
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v ktorom sú uchované spomienky na to,
aké to bolo dotknúť sa vakovlkov,
ako páchli a aké zvuky vydávali.
ako páchli a aké zvuky vydávali.
14:46
what they smelled like, what they sounded like.
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14:48
He led them around on a rope.
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Vodil ich na povraze.
14:50
He has personal experiences
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Mal spomienky a skúsenosti,
14:52
that I would give my left leg to have in my head.
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za ktoré by som dal všetko.
14:55
We'd all love to have this sort of thing happen.
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Všetci by sme to radi zažili.
14:58
Anyway, I asked Peter, by any chance,
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Spýtal som sa ho,
či by mi nevedel ukázať, kde ich chytal.
15:00
could he take us back to where he caught those thylacines.
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15:02
My interest was in whether the environment had changed.
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Chcel som vedieť, či sa to tam zmenilo.
15:05
He thought hard. I mean, it was nearly 80 years before this
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Hlboko sa zamyslel.
Bol tam naposledy asi pred 80 rokmi.
15:08
that he'd been at this hut.
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15:09
At any rate, he led us down this bush track,
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V každom prípade si spomenul
na cestičku k tej chate, zaviedol nás tam
na cestičku k tej chate, zaviedol nás tam
15:11
and there, right where he remembered, was the hut,
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15:15
and tears came into his eyes.
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a do očí mu vyhŕkli slzy, keď ju zbadal.
15:17
He looked at the hut. We went inside.
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Vošli sme dnu.
15:19
There were the wooden boards on the sides of the hut
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Po bokoch chaty boli drevené dosky,
15:21
where he and his father and his brother had slept at night.
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na ktorých s otcom a bratom spávali.
15:24
And he told me, as it all was flooding back in memories.
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Keď ho zaplavili spomienky, povedal mi:
15:26
He said, "I remember the thylacines going around the hut
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„Spomínam si, ako vakovlky chodili dookola
15:29
wondering what was inside," and he said
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a chceli vedieť, čo sa skrýva dnu.“
Spomenul si, že pritom kňučali:
„Jip, jip, jip!“
„Jip, jip, jip!“
15:32
they made sounds like "Yip! Yip! Yip!"
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15:34
All of these are parts of his life and what he remembers.
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Všetko sú to spomienky na to, čo zažil.
15:37
And the key question for me was to ask Peter,
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Opýtal som sa ho kľúčovú otázku:
„Zmenilo sa to tu?“
15:41
has it changed? And he said no.
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Odpovedal, že nie.
15:42
The southern beech forests surrounded his hut
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Chatu obklopovali pabukové lesy
rovnako ako v roku 1926.
rovnako ako v roku 1926.
15:44
just like it was when he was there in 1926.
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Boli tam rozsiahle trávnaté pláne.
15:47
The grasslands were sweeping away.
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15:49
That's classic thylacine habitat.
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To je typické vakovlčie prostredie.
15:51
And the animals in those areas were the same
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Ešte stále tam žili tie isté zvieratá
ako v čase vakovlkov.
ako v čase vakovlkov.
15:53
that were there when the thylacine was around.
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Mohli by sme ich teda vypustiť? Áno.
15:55
So could we put it back? Yes.
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Bude to stačiť?
15:58
Is that all we would do? And this is an interesting question.
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To je zaujímavá otázka.
16:01
Sometimes you might be able to put it back,
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Mohli by sme ich síce vypustiť do prírody,
16:04
but is that the safest way to make sure
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ale zaručíme tým, že už nikdy nevyhynú?
16:06
it never goes extinct again, and I don't think so.
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Myslím si, že nie.
16:09
I think gradually, as we see species all around the world,
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Ak sa pozrieme na situáciu
zvierat na celom svete,
zvierat na celom svete,
16:12
it's kind of a mantra that wildlife is increasingly
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uvedomíme si, že divá zver žijúca
vo voľnej prírode tam nie je v bezpečí.
vo voľnej prírode tam nie je v bezpečí.
16:15
not safe in the wild.
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Radi by sme si mysleli, že je, ale nie je.
16:16
We'd love to think it is, but we know it isn't.
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16:18
We need other parallel strategies coming online.
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Potrebujeme paralelné stratégie.
Zaujala ma táto.
16:21
And this one interests me.
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16:22
Some of the thylacines that were being turned into zoos,
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Niektoré vakovlky,
ktoré sa dostali do zoo,
chránených oblastí alebo múzeí,
chránených oblastí alebo múzeí,
16:25
sanctuaries, even at the museums,
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mali na krku stopy od obojkov.
16:27
had collar marks on the neck.
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16:29
They were being kept as pets,
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Predtým to boli domáce zvieratá.
16:31
and we know a lot of bush tales and memories
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Poznáme veľa príbehov a spomienok ľudí,
ktorí vakovlky chovali,
16:34
of people who had them as pets,
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a podľa nich boli úžasné a priateľské.
16:35
and they say they were wonderful, friendly.
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16:38
This particular one came in out of the forest
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Tento vyšiel z lesa,
oblizol tohto chlapca
16:41
to lick this boy and curled up
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a uložil sa pri ohnisku, kde zaspal.
16:43
around the fireplace to go to sleep. A wild animal.
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Bolo to divé zviera.
16:46
And I'd like to ask the question, all of --
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Rád by som sa teraz
opýtal otázku na zamyslenie.
opýtal otázku na zamyslenie.
16:49
we need to think about this.
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16:50
If it had not been illegal to keep these thylacines as pets
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Keby v minulosti nebolo protizákonné
držať vakovlky ako domáce zvieratá,
držať vakovlky ako domáce zvieratá,
16:55
then, would the thylacine be extinct now?
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vyhynuli by?
16:58
And I'm positive it wouldn't.
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Som si istý, že nie.
17:00
We need to think about this in today's world.
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Zamyslime sa nad tým
v kontexte dnešnej doby.
v kontexte dnešnej doby.
17:03
Could it be that getting animals close to us
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Ak budeme mať k zvieratám blízko
a naučíme sa ceniť si ich,
a naučíme sa ceniť si ich,
17:06
so that we value them, maybe they won't go extinct?
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zabránime tomu, aby vyhynuli?
Je to zásadná otázka,
17:09
And this is such a critical issue for us,
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17:11
because if we don't do that, we're going to watch
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pretože ak to neurobíme,
uvidíme, ako budú z tváre sveta
miznúť ďalšie a ďalšie zvieratá.
miznúť ďalšie a ďalšie zvieratá.
17:13
more of these animals plunge off the precipice.
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17:17
As far as I'm concerned, this is why
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Pokiaľ ide o mňa, toto je dôvod,
17:19
we're trying to do these kinds of de-extinction projects.
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prečo sa v rámci projektov
snažíme vzkriesiť určité druhy.
snažíme vzkriesiť určité druhy.
17:22
We are trying to restore that balance of nature
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Pokúšame sa obnoviť v prírode rovnováhu,
17:25
that we have upset.
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ktorú sme narušili.
17:27
Thank you.
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Ďakujem.
17:28
(Applause)
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(potlesk)
ABOUT THE SPEAKER
Michael Archer - PaleontologistPaleontologist Michael Archer is working to bring back his favorite extinct animal: the Tasmanian tiger.
Why you should listen
Why do fascinating extinct species have to stay that way? Paleontologist Michael Archer says: They don't! He's working to de-extinct the gastric brooding frog and the thylacine, also known as the Tasmanian tiger. These animals could have taught us humans a lot, says Archer, but we wiped them out. A severe missed opportunity.
Archer is a professor in the School of Biological, Earth and Environmental Sciences at the University of New South Wales in Sydney, Australia. Archer's research includes: conservation through sustainable use of native resources -- including having native animals as pets -- and trying to bring extinct species back into the world of the living. Previously Archer served as the Curator of Mammals at the Queensland Museum and Director of the Australian Museum in Sydney.
Michael Archer | Speaker | TED.com