TEDxBratislava
Moshe Szyf: How early life experience is written into DNA
Moše Šif (Moshe Szyf): Kako se rana životna iskustva ispisuju u DNK
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Moše Šif je pionir na polju epigenetike, koja se bavi izučavanjem toga kako živa bića reprogramiraju svoj genom kao odgovor na društvene faktore, poput stresa i nedostatka hrane. Njegovo istraživanje nagoveštava da biohemijski signali, koji se prenose sa majke na potomstvo, saopštavaju detetu u kakvom će svetu da živi, time menjajući ispoljavanje gena. "DNK nije puki niz slova; nije puki scenario." Kaže Šif. "DNK je dinamičan film u kome se vaša iskustva ispisuju."
Moshe Szyf - Epigeneticist
Moshe Szyf's research is focused on understanding the broad implications of epigenetic mechanisms in human behavior, health and disease. Full bio
Moshe Szyf's research is focused on understanding the broad implications of epigenetic mechanisms in human behavior, health and disease. Full bio
Double-click the English transcript below to play the video.
00:12
So it all came to life
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Dakle, sve se začelo
00:14
in a dark bar in Madrid.
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u mračnom baru u Madridu.
00:17
I encountered my colleague
from McGill, Michael Meaney.
from McGill, Michael Meaney.
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Sreo sam kolegu sa Mekgila, Majkla Minija.
00:21
And we were drinking a few beers,
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Popili smo nekoliko piva,
00:23
and like scientists do,
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i, kao i svaki naučnik,
00:25
he told me about his work.
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ispričao mi je o svom radu.
00:28
And he told me that he is interested
in how mother rats lick their pups
in how mother rats lick their pups
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A rekao mi je da ga interesuje
kako majke pacovi ližu svoje mlade
kako majke pacovi ližu svoje mlade
00:35
after they were born.
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nakon što su rođeni.
00:37
And I was sitting there and saying,
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A ja sam sedeo tu i govorio:
00:40
"This is where my tax
dollars are wasted --
dollars are wasted --
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"Na to traćite moj novac od poreza -
00:43
(Laughter)
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(Smeh)
00:44
on this kind of soft science."
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na ovaj vid meke nauke."
00:47
And he started telling me
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A on je počeo da mi govori
00:50
that the rats, like humans,
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kako pacovi, poput ljudi,
00:53
lick their pups in very different ways.
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ližu svoje mlade
na veoma različite načine.
na veoma različite načine.
00:56
Some mothers do a lot of that,
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Neke majke to često rade,
00:59
some mothers do very little,
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neke majke veoma retko,
01:01
and most are in between.
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a većina je negde između.
01:03
But what's interesting about it
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Međutim, zanimljivo je to
01:05
is when he follows these pups
when they become adults --
when they become adults --
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da kada prati te mlade,
nakon što postanu odrasli -
nakon što postanu odrasli -
01:10
like, years in human life,
long after their mother died.
long after their mother died.
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godinama u ljudskom životu,
dugo nakon što im je majka uginula.
dugo nakon što im je majka uginula.
01:14
They are completely different animals.
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To su potpuno različite životinje.
01:17
The animals that were licked
and groomed heavily,
and groomed heavily,
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Životinje koje su lizali i timarili često,
01:21
the high-licking and grooming,
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visoko lizani i timareni,
01:24
are not stressed.
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nisu pod stresom.
01:26
They have different sexual behavior.
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Imaju drugačije seksualno ponašanje.
01:28
They have a different way of living
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Imaju drugačiji način života
01:31
than those that were not treated
as intensively by their mothers.
as intensively by their mothers.
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od onih koje majke
nisu tako snažno pazile.
nisu tako snažno pazile.
01:37
So then I was thinking to myself:
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Potom sam pomislio u sebi:
01:41
Is this magic?
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da li je ovo magija?
01:43
How does this work?
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Kako ovo funkcioniše?
01:44
As geneticists would like you to think,
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Genetičari bi vam rekli
01:47
perhaps the mother had
the "bad mother" gene
the "bad mother" gene
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da je majka možda imala gen "loše majke"
01:51
that caused her pups to be stressful,
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koji je uzrokovao da njeni mladi
budu pod stresom,
budu pod stresom,
01:55
and then it was passed
from generation to generation;
from generation to generation;
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a potom se preneo
s generacije na generaciju;
s generacije na generaciju;
01:57
it's all determined by genetics.
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sve je genetski predodređeno.
02:00
Or is it possible that something
else is going on here?
else is going on here?
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Ili je moguće da se nešto drugo
ovde dešava?
ovde dešava?
02:03
In rats, we can ask
this question and answer it.
this question and answer it.
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Kod pacova možemo da postavimo
i da odgovorimo na ovo pitanje.
i da odgovorimo na ovo pitanje.
02:07
So what we did is
a cross-fostering experiment.
a cross-fostering experiment.
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Pa smo napravili
eksperiment unakrsnog roditeljstva.
eksperiment unakrsnog roditeljstva.
02:11
You essentially separate the litter,
the babies of this rat, at birth,
the babies of this rat, at birth,
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U suštini razdvojite leglo,
mlade ovog pacova po rođenju,
mlade ovog pacova po rođenju,
02:15
to two kinds of fostering mothers --
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kod dve vrste majki starateljki -
02:17
not the real mothers,
but mothers that will take care of them:
but mothers that will take care of them:
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ne stvarnih majki,
već majki koje će o njima da brinu:
već majki koje će o njima da brinu:
02:21
high-licking mothers
and low-licking mothers.
and low-licking mothers.
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majki koje često ližu
majki koje retko ližu.
majki koje retko ližu.
02:23
And you can do the opposite
with the low-licking pups.
with the low-licking pups.
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I možete da uradite suprotno
sa mladima koji retko ližu.
sa mladima koji retko ližu.
02:27
And the remarkable answer was,
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A izvanredan rezultat je bio:
02:30
it wasn't important
what gene you got from your mother.
what gene you got from your mother.
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nije bilo važno koje ste gene
dobili od vaše majke.
dobili od vaše majke.
02:34
It was not the biological mother
that defined this property of these rats.
that defined this property of these rats.
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Nije biološka majka
određivala ovo svojstvo kod pacova.
određivala ovo svojstvo kod pacova.
02:39
It is the mother that
took care of the pups.
took care of the pups.
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Već majka koja se brinula o mladima.
02:44
So how can this work?
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Pa, kako je ovo moguće?
02:48
I am an a epigeneticist.
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Ja sam epigenetičar.
02:50
I am interested in how genes are marked
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Zanima me kako se geni obeležavaju
02:54
by a chemical mark
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hemijskim obeležjima
02:56
during embryogenesis, during the time
we're in the womb of our mothers,
we're in the womb of our mothers,
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tokom embriogeneze, tokom vremena
dok smo u utrobi naših majki,
dok smo u utrobi naših majki,
03:01
and decide which gene will be expressed
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i kako se donosi odluka
koji geni će se manifestovati
koji geni će se manifestovati
03:03
in what tissue.
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u kom tkivu.
03:04
Different genes are expressed in the brain
than in the liver and the eye.
than in the liver and the eye.
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Različiti geni se manifestuju
u mozgu nego u jetri i oku.
u mozgu nego u jetri i oku.
03:09
And we thought: Is it possible
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Pa smo pomislili: da li je moguće
03:12
that the mother is somehow
reprogramming the gene of her offspring
reprogramming the gene of her offspring
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da majka nekako reprogramira
gen svog potomka
gen svog potomka
03:19
through her behavior?
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svojim ponašanjem?
03:21
And we spent 10 years,
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Pa smo proveli 10 godina
03:22
and we found that there is a cascade
of biochemical events
of biochemical events
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i otkrili smo da postoji obilje
biohemijskih događaja
biohemijskih događaja
03:26
by which the licking and grooming
of the mother, the care of the mother,
of the mother, the care of the mother,
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kojima lizanje i timarenje
majke, briga majke,
majke, briga majke,
03:30
is translated to biochemical signals
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se prevodi u biohemijske signale
03:32
that go into the nucleus and into the DNA
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koji idu do jedra i u DNK
03:36
and program it differently.
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i drugačije ga programiraju.
03:38
So now the animal can prepare
itself for life:
itself for life:
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Dakle, sada životinja
može da se pripremi za život:
može da se pripremi za život:
03:43
Is life going to be harsh?
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da li će život da bude težak?
03:45
Is there going to be a lot of food?
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Da li će da bude mnogo hrane?
03:47
Are there going to be a lot of cats
and snakes around,
and snakes around,
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Da li će da bude mnogo mačaka
i zmija u blizini
i zmija u blizini
03:50
or will I live
in an upper-class neighborhood
in an upper-class neighborhood
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ili ću da živim u komšiluku više klase
03:52
where all I have to do
is behave well and proper,
is behave well and proper,
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gde samo treba da se ponašam
lepo i pristojno
lepo i pristojno
03:55
and that will gain me social acceptance?
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i to će da mi obezbedi
društvenu prihvaćenost?
društvenu prihvaćenost?
03:58
And now one can think about
how important that process can be
how important that process can be
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I sad neko može da pomisli
koliko je ovaj proces važan
koliko je ovaj proces važan
04:04
for our lives.
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u našim životima.
04:05
We inherit our DNA from our ancestors.
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Nasleđujemo našu DNK od naših predaka.
04:09
The DNA is old.
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DNK je stara.
04:11
It evolved during evolution.
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Evoluirala je tokom evolucije.
04:13
But it doesn't tell us
if you are going to be born in Stockholm,
if you are going to be born in Stockholm,
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Ali nam ne saopštava
da li ćemo se roditi u Stokholmu,
da li ćemo se roditi u Stokholmu,
04:18
where the days are long in the summer
and short in the winter,
and short in the winter,
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gde su dani tokom leta dugi,
a kratki tokom zime
a kratki tokom zime
04:21
or in Ecuador,
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ili u Ekvadoru,
04:23
where there's an equal number of hours
for day and night all year round.
for day and night all year round.
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gde dan i noć imaju
jednak broj sati tokom čitave godine.
jednak broj sati tokom čitave godine.
04:26
And that has such an enormous [effect]
on our physiology.
on our physiology.
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A to ima ogroman uticaj
na našu fiziologiju.
na našu fiziologiju.
04:31
So what we suggest is,
perhaps what happens early in life,
perhaps what happens early in life,
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Mi pretpostavljamo da možda,
rano u životu,
rano u životu,
04:35
those signals that come
through the mother,
through the mother,
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ti signali koji se prenose preko majke,
04:37
tell the child what kind of social world
you're going to be living in.
you're going to be living in.
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saopštavaju detetu u kakvom
društvenom svetu će da živi.
društvenom svetu će da živi.
04:42
It will be harsh, and you'd better
be anxious and be stressful,
be anxious and be stressful,
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Ako će da bude težak,
bolje je biti anksiozan i pod stresom
bolje je biti anksiozan i pod stresom
04:45
or it's going to be an easy world,
and you have to be different.
and you have to be different.
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ili će da bude lagodan svet
i morate da budete drugačiji.
i morate da budete drugačiji.
04:49
Is it going to be a world
with a lot of light or little light?
with a lot of light or little light?
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Da li će to da bude svet
s mnogo ili malo svetla?
s mnogo ili malo svetla?
04:52
Is it going to be a world
with a lot of food or little food?
with a lot of food or little food?
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Da li će da bude svet
s mnogo ili malo hrane?
s mnogo ili malo hrane?
04:56
If there's no food around,
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Ako nema hrane u blizini,
04:57
you'd better develop your brain to binge
whenever you see a meal,
whenever you see a meal,
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bolje da vam se razvije mozak
koji navaljuje svaki put kad vidi obrok
koji navaljuje svaki put kad vidi obrok
05:02
or store every piece of food
that you have as fat.
that you have as fat.
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ili koji skladišti u vidu masti svu hranu
koja vam je dostupna.
koja vam je dostupna.
05:08
So this is good.
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Dakle, ovo je dobro.
05:10
Evolution has selected this
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Evolucija je odabrala ovo
05:12
to allow our fixed, old DNA
to function in a dynamic way
to function in a dynamic way
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kako bi omogućila našoj fiksiranoj,
staroj DNK da funkcioniše dinamično
staroj DNK da funkcioniše dinamično
05:17
in new environments.
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u novim sredinama.
05:19
But sometimes things can go wrong;
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Međutim, ponekad stvari krenu po zlu;
05:22
for example, if you're born
to a poor family
to a poor family
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na primer, ako ste rođeni
u siromašnoj porodici
u siromašnoj porodici
05:26
and the signals are, "You better binge,
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a signali su: "Bolje navalite,
05:29
you better eat every piece of food
you're going to encounter."
you're going to encounter."
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bolje bi vam bilo da pojedete
svu hranu na koju naletite."
svu hranu na koju naletite."
05:32
But now we humans
and our brain have evolved,
and our brain have evolved,
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Međutim, nama ljudima
su evoluirali mozgovi
su evoluirali mozgovi
05:35
have changed evolution even faster.
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i to je čak i brže izmenilo evoluciju.
05:37
Now you can buy McDonald's for one dollar.
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Sad možete da jedete
u Mekdonaldsu za jedan dolar.
u Mekdonaldsu za jedan dolar.
05:40
And therefore, the preparation
that we had by our mothers
that we had by our mothers
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I, stoga, pripreme
koje smo dobili od majki
koje smo dobili od majki
05:47
is turning out to be maladaptive.
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postaju loše prilagođene.
05:50
The same preparation that was supposed
to protect us from hunger and famine
to protect us from hunger and famine
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Ista spremnost koja je trebalo
da nas zaštiti od gladovanja i gladi
da nas zaštiti od gladovanja i gladi
05:54
is going to cause obesity,
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će da uzrokuje gojaznost,
05:57
cardiovascular problems
and metabolic disease.
and metabolic disease.
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kardiovaskularne probleme
i oboljenja metabolizma.
i oboljenja metabolizma.
06:00
So this concept that genes
could be marked by our experience,
could be marked by our experience,
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Dakle, ovaj koncept da naša iskustva
mogu da obeleže gene,
mogu da obeleže gene,
06:04
and especially the early life experience,
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a naročito rana iskustva,
06:06
can provide us a unifying explanation
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može da nam obezbedi
objedinjujuće objašnjenje
objedinjujuće objašnjenje
06:09
of both health and disease.
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i za zdravlje i za bolest.
06:12
But is true only for rats?
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Međutim, da li je istinito
samo kod pacova?
samo kod pacova?
06:14
The problem is, we cannot
test this in humans,
test this in humans,
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Problem je što ovo ne možemo
da testiramo na ljudima
da testiramo na ljudima
06:17
because ethically, we cannot administer
child adversity in a random way.
child adversity in a random way.
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jer etički ne možemo da izazivamo
dečje nedaće nasumično.
dečje nedaće nasumično.
06:22
So if a poor child develops
a certain property,
a certain property,
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Pa, ako siromašno dete
razvije određeno svojstvo,
razvije određeno svojstvo,
06:25
we don't know whether
this is caused by poverty
this is caused by poverty
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ne znamo da li je siromaštvo to uzrokovalo
06:29
or whether poor people have bad genes.
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ili siromašni ljudi imaju loše gene.
06:32
So geneticists will try to tell you
that poor people are poor
that poor people are poor
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Pa će genetičari pokušati da vam kažu
kako siromašni su siromašni
kako siromašni su siromašni
06:35
because their genes make them poor.
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jer im geni uzrokuju siromaštvo.
06:37
Epigeneticists will tell you
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Epigenetičari će da vam kažu
06:39
poor people are in a bad environment
or an impoverished environment
or an impoverished environment
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da su siromašni u lošem okruženju
ili u osiromašenom okruženju
ili u osiromašenom okruženju
06:43
that creates that phenotype,
that property.
that property.
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koje stvara taj fenotip, to svojstvo.
06:47
So we moved to look
into our cousins, the monkeys.
into our cousins, the monkeys.
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Pa smo krenuli da proverimo
kod naših rođaka majmuna.
kod naših rođaka majmuna.
06:54
My colleague, Stephen Suomi,
has been rearing monkeys
has been rearing monkeys
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Moj kolega Stiven Sumi uzgaja majmune
06:57
in two different ways:
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na dva različita načina:
06:58
randomly separated the monkey
from the mother
from the mother
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nasumično razdvaja majmuna od majke
07:01
and reared her with a nurse
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i podiže ga uz pomoć negovateljice
07:04
and surrogate motherhood conditions.
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u uslovima surogat majke.
Ovi majmuni nisu imali majku;
imali su negovateljicu.
imali su negovateljicu.
07:07
So these monkeys didn't have
a mother; they had a nurse.
a mother; they had a nurse.
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07:10
And other monkeys were reared
with their normal, natural mothers.
with their normal, natural mothers.
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A druge majmune su podizale
njihove normalne, prirodne majke.
njihove normalne, prirodne majke.
07:14
And when they were old,
they were completely different animals.
they were completely different animals.
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A kad su ostarili,
bili su potpuno različite životinje.
bili su potpuno različite životinje.
07:19
The monkeys that had a mother
did not care about alcohol,
did not care about alcohol,
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Majmuni koji su imali majku
nisu marili za alkohol,
nisu marili za alkohol,
07:22
they were not sexually aggressive.
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nisu bili seksualno agresivni.
07:24
The monkeys that didn't have a mother
were aggressive, were stressed
were aggressive, were stressed
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Majmuni koji nisu imali majku
su bili agresivni, pod stresom
su bili agresivni, pod stresom
07:28
and were alcoholics.
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i bili su alkoholičari.
07:30
So we looked at their DNA
early after birth, to see:
early after birth, to see:
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Pa smo pogledali njihovu DNK
rano po rođenju kako bismo videli:
rano po rođenju kako bismo videli:
07:35
Is it possible that the mother is marking?
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da li je moguće da majka obeležava?
07:38
Is there a signature of the mother
in the DNA of the offspring?
in the DNA of the offspring?
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Da li postoji potpis majčin u DNK potomka?
07:44
These are Day-14 monkeys,
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Ovo su majmuni Dan-14,
07:46
and what you see here is the modern way
by which we study epigenetics.
by which we study epigenetics.
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i ovde vidite savremeni način
na koji izučavamo epigenetiku.
na koji izučavamo epigenetiku.
07:50
We can now map those chemical marks,
which we call methylation marks,
which we call methylation marks,
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Sad možemo da mapiramo
ova hemijska obeležja,
ova hemijska obeležja,
koje nazivamo metilacionim obeležjima,
07:55
on DNA at a single nucleotide resolution.
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na DNK u rezoluciji jednog nukleotida.
07:58
We can map the entire genome.
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Možemo da mapiramo čitav genom.
08:00
We can now compare the monkey
that had a mother or not.
that had a mother or not.
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Sad možemo da uporedimo majmuna
koji je imao majku ili nije.
koji je imao majku ili nije.
08:03
And here's a visual presentation of this.
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A ovo je vizuelna prezentacija toga.
08:05
What you see is the genes
that got more methylated are red.
that got more methylated are red.
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Vidite da su crveni oni geni
koji su više metilizovani.
koji su više metilizovani.
08:10
The genes that got
less methylated are green.
less methylated are green.
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Geni koji su manje metilizovani su zeleni.
08:13
You can see many genes are changing,
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Možete da vidite da se mnogi geni menjaju
08:15
because not having a mother
is not just one thing --
is not just one thing --
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jer nemati majku nije prosta stvar -
08:18
it affects the whole way;
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utiče na sve;
08:20
it sends signals about the whole way
your world is going to look
your world is going to look
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šalje signale o čitavom načinu
na koji će vaš svet da izgleda
na koji će vaš svet da izgleda
08:23
when you become an adult.
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kada odrastete.
08:25
And you can see the two groups of monkeys
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I možete da vidite dve grupe majmuna
08:27
extremely well-separated from each other.
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izuzetno razdvojene jedne od drugih.
08:31
How early does this develop?
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Koliko rano se ovo razvije?
08:34
These monkeys already
didn't see their mothers,
didn't see their mothers,
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Ovi majmuni već nisu videli svoje majke,
08:36
so they had a social experience.
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dakle imali su društveno iskustvo.
08:38
Do we sense our social status,
even at the moment of birth?
even at the moment of birth?
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Da li osećamo naš društveni status
čak i u trenutku rođenja?
čak i u trenutku rođenja?
08:43
So in this experiment,
we took placentas of monkeys
we took placentas of monkeys
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Pa smo u ovom eksperimentu
uzeli posteljice majmuna
uzeli posteljice majmuna
08:47
that had different social status.
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koji su imali različit društveni status.
08:49
What's interesting about social rank
is that across all living beings,
is that across all living beings,
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Zanimljivo kod društvenog ranga
je da će sva živa bića
je da će sva živa bića
08:55
they will structure
themselves by hierarchy.
themselves by hierarchy.
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da se organizuju prema hijerarhiji.
08:58
Monkey number one is the boss;
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Majmun broj jedan je šef;
09:00
monkey number four is the peon.
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majmun broj četiri je pion.
09:02
You put four monkeys in a cage,
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Stavite četiri majmuna u kavez,
09:05
there will always be a boss
and always be a peon.
and always be a peon.
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uvek ćete da imate šefa i piona.
09:09
And what's interesting
is that the monkey number one
is that the monkey number one
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A zanimljivo je da je majmun broj jedan
09:13
is much healthier than monkey number four.
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daleko zdraviji od majmuna broj četiri.
09:16
And if you put them in a cage,
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A ako ih stavite u kavez,
09:18
monkey number one will not eat as much.
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majmun broj jedan neće da jede mnogo.
09:23
Monkey number four will eat [a lot].
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Majmun broj četiri će da jede mnogo.
09:26
And what you see here
in this methylation mapping,
in this methylation mapping,
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A ovde vidite kod mapiranja metilacije,
09:30
a dramatic separation at birth
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drastično razdvajanje po rođenju
09:33
of the animals that had
a high social status
a high social status
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životinja koje su imale
visok društveni status
visok društveni status
09:35
versus the animals
that did not have a high status.
that did not have a high status.
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nasuprot životinjama
koje nisu imale visok status.
koje nisu imale visok status.
09:39
So we are born already knowing
the social information,
the social information,
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Dakle, rođeni smo unapred znajući
društvene informacije,
društvene informacije,
09:43
and that social information
is not bad or good,
is not bad or good,
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a te društvene informacije
nisu loše ili dobre,
nisu loše ili dobre,
09:46
it just prepares us for life,
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prosto nas pripremaju za život
09:48
because we have to program
our biology differently
our biology differently
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jer moramo da programiramo
našu biologiju drugačije,
našu biologiju drugačije,
09:52
if we are in the high
or the low social status.
or the low social status.
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ukoliko smo visokog
ili niskog društvenog statusa.
ili niskog društvenog statusa.
09:56
But how can you study this in humans?
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Ali kako da ovo izučavate kod ljudi?
09:58
We can't do experiments,
we can't administer adversity to humans.
we can't administer adversity to humans.
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Ne možemo da vršimo eksperimente,
ne možemo da ljude izlažemo nedaćama.
ne možemo da ljude izlažemo nedaćama.
10:02
But God does experiments with humans,
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Ali bog vrši eksperimente nad ljudima
10:04
and it's called natural disasters.
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i oni se nazivaju prirodnim katastrofama.
10:07
One of the hardest natural disasters
in Canadian history
in Canadian history
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Jedna od najtežih prirodnih katastrofa
u istoriji Kanade
u istoriji Kanade
10:11
happened in my province of Quebec.
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se desila u mojoj provinciji Kvebek.
10:13
It's the ice storm of 1998.
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Radi se o ledenoj oluji iz 1998.
10:16
We lost our entire electrical grid
because of an ice storm
because of an ice storm
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Izgubili smo kompletnu elektromrežu
zbog ledene oluje,
zbog ledene oluje,
10:20
when the temperatures
were, in the dead of winter in Quebec,
were, in the dead of winter in Quebec,
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kada su temperature bile,
u sred zime u Kvebeku,
u sred zime u Kvebeku,
10:23
minus 20 to minus 30.
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611101
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minus 20 do minus 30.
10:25
And there were pregnant
mothers during that time.
mothers during that time.
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A tokom tog perioda bilo je trudnih majki.
10:28
And my colleague Suzanne King
followed the children of these mothers
followed the children of these mothers
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A moja koleginica Suzan King
je pratila decu tih majki
je pratila decu tih majki
10:34
for 15 years.
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15 godina.
10:36
And what happened was,
that as the stress increased --
that as the stress increased --
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A dešavalo se to
da dok se stres povećavao -
da dok se stres povećavao -
10:40
and here we had objective
measures of stress:
measures of stress:
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a ovde smo imali objektivna
merenja stresa:
merenja stresa:
10:43
How long were you without power?
Where did you spend your time?
Where did you spend your time?
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koliko dugo ste bili bez struje?
Gde ste provodili vreme?
Gde ste provodili vreme?
10:47
Was it in your mother-in-law's apartment
or in some posh country home?
or in some posh country home?
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Da li je to bilo u stanu vaše svekrve
ili u nekom otmenom seoskom domu?
ili u nekom otmenom seoskom domu?
10:52
So all of these added up
to a social stress scale,
to a social stress scale,
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Dakle, sve ovo je dodato
na društvenu lestvicu stresa,
na društvenu lestvicu stresa,
10:55
and you can ask the question:
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i možete da upitate:
10:57
How did the children look?
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kako su deca izgledala?
11:00
And it appears that as stress increases,
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A izgleda da kako se stres povećava,
11:02
the children develop more autism,
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kod dece se više razvija autizam,
11:04
they develop more metabolic diseases
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više se razvijaju bolesti metabolizma
11:07
and they develop more autoimmune diseases.
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i više se razvijaju autoimune bolesti.
11:10
We would map the methylation state,
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Mapirali bismo stanje metilacije
11:13
and again, you see the green genes
becoming red as stress increases,
becoming red as stress increases,
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i, opet, vidite kako zeleni geni
postaju crveni kako se stres povećava,
postaju crveni kako se stres povećava,
11:18
the red genes becoming green
as stress increases,
as stress increases,
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crveni geni postaju zeleni
kako se stres povećava,
kako se stres povećava,
11:22
an entire rearrangement
of the genome in response to stress.
of the genome in response to stress.
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celokupno preuređenje genoma
kao odgovor na stres.
kao odgovor na stres.
11:29
So if we can program genes,
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Pa, ako možemo da programiramo gene,
11:32
if we are not just the slaves
of the history of our genes,
of the history of our genes,
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ako nismo puki robovi istorije naših gena,
11:36
that they could be programmed,
can we deprogram them?
can we deprogram them?
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ako mogu da se programiraju,
možemo li da ih otprogramiramo?
možemo li da ih otprogramiramo?
11:40
Because epigenetic causes
can cause diseases like cancer,
can cause diseases like cancer,
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Zato što epigenetski uzroci
mogu da uzrokuju bolesti poput raka,
mogu da uzrokuju bolesti poput raka,
11:45
metabolic disease
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bolesti metabolizma
11:47
and mental health diseases.
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i mentalna oboljenja.
11:50
Let's talk about cocaine addiction.
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Razgovarajmo o zavisnosti od kokaina.
11:53
Cocaine addiction is a terrible situation
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Kokainska zavisnost je grozna situacija
11:56
that can lead to death
and to loss of human life.
and to loss of human life.
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koja može da dovede do smrti
i gubitka ljudskog života.
i gubitka ljudskog života.
12:01
We asked the question:
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Postavili smo pitanje:
12:03
Can we reprogram the addicted brain
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možemo li da reprogramiramo
mozak zavisnika
mozak zavisnika
12:06
to make that animal not addicted anymore?
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4924
kako životinja ne bi više bila zavisnik?
12:12
We used a cocaine addiction model
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Koristili smo model kokainske zavisnosti
12:16
that recapitulates what happens in humans.
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koji simulira šta se dešava kod ljudi.
12:18
In humans, you're in high school,
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Kod ljudi, u srednjoj ste školi,
neki prijatelji vam predlože
da uzmete kokain,
da uzmete kokain,
12:21
some friends suggest you use some cocaine,
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12:23
you take cocaine, nothing happens.
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uzmete kokain, ništa se ne desi.
12:25
Months pass by, something reminds you
of what happened the first time,
of what happened the first time,
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Meseci prođu, nešto vas podseti
šta se desilo prvi put,
šta se desilo prvi put,
12:29
a pusher pushes cocaine,
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nametljivac vam nametne kokain
12:31
and you become addicted
and your life has changed.
and your life has changed.
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i postajete zavisni i vaš se život menja.
12:34
In rats, we do the same thing.
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Kod pacova radimo to isto.
12:35
My colleague, Gal Yadid,
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Moj kolega, Gal Jadid,
12:37
he trains the animals
to get used to cocaine,
to get used to cocaine,
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dresira životinje da se naviknu na kokain,
12:40
then for one month, no cocaine.
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onda jedan mesec nema kokaina.
12:43
Then he reminds them of the party
when they saw the cocaine the first time
when they saw the cocaine the first time
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Onda ih podseća na zabavu
na kojoj su prvi put videli kokain
na kojoj su prvi put videli kokain
12:47
by cue, the colors of the cage
when they saw cocaine.
when they saw cocaine.
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nagoveštajem, bojom kaveza
kad su videli kokain.
kad su videli kokain.
12:50
And they go crazy.
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I oni polude.
12:51
They will press the lever to get cocaine
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Pritiskaće polugu da dobiju kokain
12:54
until they die.
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dok umru.
12:56
We first determined that the difference
between these animals
between these animals
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Prvo smo utvrdii da je razlika
između ovih životinja
između ovih životinja
13:00
is that during that time
when nothing happens,
when nothing happens,
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ta da tokom perioda
kad se ništa ne dešava,
kad se ništa ne dešava,
13:03
there's no cocaine around,
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kad nema kokaina,
13:05
their epigenome is rearranged.
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1921
njihov epigenom se preuređuje.
13:06
Their genes are re-marked
in a different way,
in a different way,
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Njihovi geni su nanovo obeleženi
na drugačiji način,
na drugačiji način,
13:09
and when the cue comes,
their genome is ready
their genome is ready
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a kad dođe do nagoveštaja,
njihov genom je spreman
njihov genom je spreman
13:13
to develop this addictive phenotype.
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da razvije ovaj fenotip zavisnosti.
13:16
So we treated these animals with drugs
that either increase DNA methylation,
that either increase DNA methylation,
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Pa smo tretirali ove žvotinje lekovima
koji uvećavaju DNK metilaciju,
koji uvećavaju DNK metilaciju,
to je bio epigenetski
obeleživač koji smo posmatrali,
obeleživač koji smo posmatrali,
13:23
which was the epigenetic
marker to look at,
marker to look at,
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2224
13:25
or decrease epigenetic markings.
247
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ili smo umanjivali epigenetska obeležja.
13:29
And we found that
if we increased methylation,
if we increased methylation,
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A otkrili smo da ako povećamo metilaciju,
13:32
these animals go even crazier.
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ove životinje još više polude.
13:34
They become more craving for cocaine.
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2484
Još su željnije kokaina.
13:36
But if we reduce the DNA methylation,
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Međutim, ako umanjimo DNK metilaciju,
13:40
the animals are not addicted anymore.
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životinje više nisu zavisne.
13:42
We have reprogrammed them.
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Reprogramirali smo ih.
13:44
And a fundamental difference
between an epigenetic drug
between an epigenetic drug
254
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A temeljna razlika
između epigenetskog leka
između epigenetskog leka
13:47
and any other drug
255
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1306
i bilo kog drugog leka
13:48
is that with epigenetic drugs,
256
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2172
je da kod epigenetskih lekova
13:50
we essentially remove
the signs of experience,
the signs of experience,
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u suštini uklanjamo znakove iskustva,
13:55
and once they're gone,
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i čim oni nestanu,
13:57
they will not come back
unless you have the same experience.
unless you have the same experience.
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neće se vraćati,
ukoliko ne ponovite isto iskustvo.
ukoliko ne ponovite isto iskustvo.
14:00
The animal now is reprogrammed.
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Sada je životinja reprogramirana.
14:01
So when we visited the animals
30 days, 60 days later,
30 days, 60 days later,
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Pa, kad smo posetili životinje
30 dana, 60 dana kasnije,
30 dana, 60 dana kasnije,
14:06
which is in human terms
many years of life,
many years of life,
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2919
to je u ljudskom okviru
mnogo godina života,
mnogo godina života,
14:09
they were still not addicted --
by a single epigenetic treatment.
by a single epigenetic treatment.
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i dalje nisu bile zavisne -
zbog samo jednog epigenetskog tretmana.
zbog samo jednog epigenetskog tretmana.
14:16
So what did we learn about DNA?
264
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Pa, šta smo naučili o DNK?
14:19
DNA is not just a sequence of letters;
265
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DNK nije puki niz slova;
14:22
it's not just a script.
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2119
nije puki scenario.
14:25
DNA is a dynamic movie.
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DNK je dinamičan film.
14:28
Our experiences are being written
into this movie, which is interactive.
into this movie, which is interactive.
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Naša iskustva se ispisuju
na ovom filmu, koji je interaktivan.
na ovom filmu, koji je interaktivan.
14:33
You're, like, watching a movie
of your life, with the DNA,
of your life, with the DNA,
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Vi kao da gledate film
o svom životu, sa DNK,
o svom životu, sa DNK,
14:36
with your remote control.
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uz svoj daljniski upravljač.
14:38
You can remove an actor and add an actor.
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Možete da uklonite glumca
i da dodate glumca.
i da dodate glumca.
14:42
And so you have, in spite
of the deterministic nature of genetics,
of the deterministic nature of genetics,
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Te imate, uprkos determinističkoj
prirodi genetike,
prirodi genetike,
14:48
you have control of the way
your genes look,
your genes look,
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imate kontrolu nad time
kako vaši geni izgledaju,
kako vaši geni izgledaju,
14:52
and this has a tremendous
optimistic message
optimistic message
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a to nosi krajnje optimističnu poruku
14:55
for the ability to now encounter
some of the deadly diseases
some of the deadly diseases
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zbog mogućnosti da se sada suočimo
sa nekim smrtonosnim bolestima
sa nekim smrtonosnim bolestima
14:59
like cancer, mental health,
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2904
poput raka, mentalnih bolesti,
15:02
with a new approach,
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novim pristupom,
15:05
looking at them as maladaptation.
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2534
posmatrajući ih kao lošu adaptaciju.
15:07
And if we can epigenetically intervene,
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A ako možemo da epigenetski intervenišemo,
15:10
[we can] reverse the movie
by removing an actor
by removing an actor
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možemo da preokrenemo film,
uklanjajući glumca
uklanjajući glumca
15:14
and setting up a new narrative.
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i podešavajući novi narativ.
15:18
So what I told you today is,
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Dakle, danas sam vam saopštio
15:20
our DNA is really combined
of two components,
of two components,
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da je naša DNK uistinu sačinjena
od dve komponente,
od dve komponente,
15:25
two layers of information.
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dva sloja informacija.
15:28
One layer of information is old,
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Jedan sloj informacija je star,
15:31
evolved from millions
of years of evolution.
of years of evolution.
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evoluirao je milionima godina evolucije.
15:35
It is fixed and very hard to change.
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Okoštao je i veoma teško ga je promeniti.
15:39
The other layer of information
is the epigenetic layer,
is the epigenetic layer,
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Drugi sloj informacija
je epigenetski sloj,
je epigenetski sloj,
15:43
which is open and dynamic
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koji je otvoren i dinamičan
15:47
and sets up a narrative
that is interactive,
that is interactive,
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i podešava narativ koji je interaktivan,
15:51
that allows us to control,
to a large extent, our destiny,
to a large extent, our destiny,
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koji nam omogućuje da kontrolišemo,
u velikoj meri, našu sudbinu,
u velikoj meri, našu sudbinu,
15:59
to help the destiny of our children
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kako bismo unapredili sudbinu naše dece
16:03
and to hopefully conquer disease
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i uspeli, nadamo se, da pobedimo bolesti
16:07
and serious health challenges
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i ozbiljne zdravstvene izazove
16:11
that have plagued humankind
for a long time.
for a long time.
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koji haraju čovečanstvom već dugo vremena.
16:15
So even though we are determined
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Dakle, iako smo određeni
16:18
by our genes,
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našim genima,
16:20
we have a degree of freedom
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imamo stepen slobode
16:23
that can set up our life
to a life of responsibility.
to a life of responsibility.
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koji može da podesi naš život
da bude odgovoran život.
da bude odgovoran život.
16:27
Thank you.
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Havala vam.
16:29
(Applause)
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(Aplauz)
ABOUT THE SPEAKER
Moshe Szyf - EpigeneticistMoshe Szyf's research is focused on understanding the broad implications of epigenetic mechanisms in human behavior, health and disease.
Why you should listen
Moshe Szyf is one of the pioneers in the field of epigenetics. Szyf's lab has proposed three decades ago that DNA methylation is a prime therapeutic target in cancer and other diseases and has postulated and provided the first set of evidence that the "social environment" early in life can alter DNA methylation launching the emerging field of "social epigenetics."
Szyf received his PhD from the Hebrew University and did his postdoctoral fellowship in Genetics at Harvard Medical School, joined the department in 1989 and currently holds a James McGill Professorship and GlaxoSmithKline-CIHR Chair in Pharmacology. He is the founding co-director of the Sackler Institute for Epigenetics and Psychobiology at McGill and is a Fellow of the Canadian Institute for Advanced Research Experience-based Brain and Biological Development program.
Moshe Szyf | Speaker | TED.com