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TEDGlobal 2007

Ngozi Okonjo-Iweala: Aid versus trade

恩戈奇依维埃拉关于“援助还是贸易”的演讲

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恩戈奇依维埃拉,前任尼日利亚财政部长,在2007年TED全球峰会的闭幕日上对四天来关于援助与贸易的讨论进行了总结,并分享了她个人投身这一问题的相关故事。

- Economist
Ngozi Okonjo-Iweala is a respected global economist. Full bio

It's very, very difficult
我知道作总结非常,非常难——
00:25
to speak at the end of a conference like this,
特别是在这样一个会议的结尾。
00:30
because everyone has spoken. Everything has been said.
一位每个人都发表了自己的言论,要说的都说完了。
00:33
So I thought that what may be useful is to remind us
所以我想到,或许对我们真正有用的是提醒我们
00:36
of some of the things that have gone on here,
一些在这里经历过的事,
00:40
and then maybe offer some ideas which we can take away,
然后可能是提出一些我们可以带走的、
00:43
and take forward and work on.
带向未来并予以实施的想法。
00:46
That's what I'd like to try and do.
这也就是我想试着做的事。
00:51
We came here saying we want to talk about "Africa: the Next Chapter."
我们来到这里,表示我们想要谈论“非洲:下一个篇章”。
00:52
But we are talking about "Africa: the Next Chapter"
但其实我们之所以在这里讨论“非洲:下一个篇章”,
00:57
because we are looking at the old and the present chapter -- that we're looking at,
是因为我们在回顾和关注过去和现在这两个篇章,
00:59
and saying it's not such a good thing.
却说这不是一件好事。
01:05
The picture I showed you before, and this picture, of drought, death and disease
我之前展现给你们的图像,这幅图,关于干旱、死亡和疾病,
01:08
is what we usually see.
便是我们常常看见的。
01:11
What we want to look at is "Africa: the Next Chapter,"
而我们想要看到的呢,则是“非洲,下一个篇章”。
01:15
and that's this: a healthy, smiling, beautiful African.
那就是,一个健康的、微笑着的、美丽的非洲。
01:19
And I think it's worth remembering what we've heard
我坚信我们所听闻的东西值得记忆,
01:23
through the conference right from the first day,
自从会议的第一天起,
01:26
where I heard that all the important statistics have been given --
我听到了一切重要的数据统计,
01:28
about where we are now,
关于我们所处的现状,
01:31
about how the continent is doing much better.
关于这个大陆是怎样日趋进步。
01:34
And the importance of that is that we have a platform to build on.
这之所以重要是因为我们由此有了一个可以工作的平台。
01:38
So I'm not going to spend too much time --
所以,我不会花太多时间
01:41
just to show you, refresh your memories
只是向你展示,唤醒你的记忆,
01:44
that we are here for "Africa: the Next Chapter" because for the first time
告诉你我们在这里讨论“非洲:下一个篇章”,因为史无前例地,
01:47
there really is a platform to build on.
我们确实拥有了一个可操作的平台。
01:49
We really do have it going right
我们确实把它扶入正轨,
01:53
that the continent is growing at rates that people had thought would not happen.
正如这片大洲正以一个人们意想不到的速度发展。
01:56
After decades of 2 percent, we are now at 5 percent,
在数十年间的2%的增速后,我们现在拥有了5%的增速,
02:00
and it's going to -- projected -- 6 and 7 percent even.
并且这个数字还在增加着——预计将达六至七个百分点。
02:03
And inflation has come down.
同时,通货膨胀正趋于缓和。
02:07
External debt -- something that I can tell you a long story about
关于外债,我能讲出一个很长的故事。
02:11
because I personally worked on one of the biggest debts on the continent --
因为,我个人曾为解决这个大洲上最大的债务之一工作过,
02:13
has come down dramatically.
而它的数额如今也有惊人的下降。
02:17
You know, as you can see,
你知道,正如你所见,从将近
02:20
from almost 50 billion down to about 12 or 13 billion.
500亿人下降至120或130亿人。
02:22
Now this is a huge achievement.
这是多大的成就!
02:25
You know, we've built up reserves. Why is that important?
你知道,我们已经建立了保护区,这为何重要呢?
02:28
It's because it shows off our economies, shows off our currencies
那是因为,它炫耀着我们的经济,我们的货币,
02:32
and gives a platform on which people can plan and build, including businesses.
并提供以人们一个可以计划、建立、做生意的平台。
02:35
We've also seen some evidence that all this is making a difference
我们看到了一些见证着我们创造不同的证据。
02:40
because private investment flows have increased.
正如私人投资流扩张了。
02:44
I want to remind you again --
我想要再次提醒你的是,
02:47
I know you saw these statistics before --
我知道你们过去已经看过这些数据,
02:49
from almost 6 billion we are now at about 18 billion.
从六十亿到现在的一百八十亿。
02:52
In 2005, remittances -- I just took one country, Nigeria
2005年, 汇款--拿尼日利亚作例子--
02:55
skyrocketing -- skyrocketing is too dramatic,
你们知道,那是飞速上升-说飞速上升那就发展得太快了
02:58
but increasing dramatically.
但的确增长地非常快
03:03
And in many other countries this is happening.
这种现象在其他国家也同样存在
03:06
Why is this important? Because it shows confidence.
为什么这么重要呢?因为它显示了一种信心
03:08
People are now confident to bring --
那些国家的人民现在自信于拿回
03:10
if your people in the diaspora bring their money back,
如果你们人民离散各地,把他们的钱拿回来
03:13
it shows other people that, look,
那说明其他人民,看
03:16
there is emerging confidence in your country.
对你们国家的信心正在崛起
03:18
And instead of an outflow, you are now getting a net inflow.
现在你们正处于资金纯流入阶段而不是流出
03:21
Now, why is all this important, to have to go really fast?
现在,为什么所有都是这么重要?一定要发展这么快吗?
03:24
It's important that we build this platform,
重要的是,我们建了这个平台
03:26
that we have the president, Kikwete, and others of our leaders who are saying,
我们有自己的负责人,基奎特,以及其他的领导,他们说
03:29
"Look, we must do something different."
“看,我们必须做些有用的事”
03:32
Because we are confronted with a challenge.
因为我们正面临着挑战
03:34
62 percent of our population is below the age of 24.
62%的人口都在24岁以下
03:36
What does this mean?
这意味着什么?
03:43
This means that we have to focus on how our youth
这意味着我们必须关注我们年青人如何
03:46
are going to be engaged in productive endeavor in their lives.
在他们成长过程中投身于生产建设
03:49
You have to focus on how to create jobs,
你们必须重视如何创造就业
03:52
make sure they don't fall into disease, and that they get an education.
确保他们不被疾病困扰,他们可以接受教育
03:55
But most of all that they are productively engaged in life,
但要确保他们中的大多数人可以投身于生产中
03:57
and that they are creating the kind of productive environment
他们正在我们的国家创造一种生产环境
04:00
in our countries that will make things happen.
这种环境会让有些奇迹发生
04:03
And to support this, I just recently --
你们知道,为了支持这项使命,我最近
04:07
one of the things I've done since leaving government
辞去政府工作后我所作的事情之一
04:10
is to start an opinion research organization in Nigeria.
在尼日利亚成立了一个民意调查组织
04:12
Most of our countries don't even have any opinion research.
我们大多数国家甚至还没有民意调查组织
04:14
People don't have voice.
听不到人民的声音
04:18
There is no way you can know what people want.
这样的话我们无法知道人民的需要
04:20
One of the things we asked them recently was what's their top issue.
我最近问他们,什么才是他们的最大需求
04:22
Like in every other country where this has been done,
而在其他的国家,这种需求已经得到满足
04:24
jobs is the top issue.
工作就是最大需求
04:27
I want to leave this up here and come back to it.
我想先到此为止,待会再回来讲
04:31
But before I get to this slide, I just wanted to run you through this.
但在讲这个之前,我只想让你们明白
04:36
And to say that for me, the next stage of building this platform
我个人觉得,建设这个平台的下一步
04:40
that now enables us to move forward --
是让我们向前进--
04:43
and we mustn't make light of it.
我们不能忽视它
04:46
It was only 5, 6, 7 years ago
仅在五,六七年前
04:48
we couldn't even talk about the next chapter, because we were in the old chapter.
我们甚至不能谈下一阶段,因为我们还处于旧阶段
04:53
We were going nowhere.
我们无路可走
04:57
The economies were not growing.
经济没有发展
05:00
We were having negative per capita growth.
我们的人均国民收入还是负增长
05:02
The microeconomic framework and foundation for moving forward
发展必需的微观经济的框架和基础
05:06
was not even there.
都没有建立起来
05:08
So let's not forget that it's taken a lot to build this,
所以我们不要忘记,建立这个框架和基础需要很多资源
05:12
including all those things that we tried to do in Nigeria that Dele referred to.
包括德立(人名)所指出的我们在尼日利亚尝试做的所有事情
05:15
Creating our own program to solve problems, like fighting corruption,
创建我们自己的项目去解决问题,像反腐败,
05:17
building institutions, stabilizing the micro economy.
建研究机构,稳定微观经济
05:24
So now we have this platform we can build on.
如今我们可以在这个平台上建设
05:29
And it brings us to the debate that has been going on here:
这也就产生了我们一直以来的争议
05:33
aid versus private sector, aid versus trade, etc.
援助和私营单位,援助和贸易等等
05:37
And someone stood up to say that one of the frustrating things
有些人站起来说---最让人头疼的事是
05:42
is that it's been a simplistic debate.
这个争议变得简单化了
05:47
And that's not what the debate should be about.
而且这不是我们该争议的
05:49
That's engaging in the wrong debate.
我们一直在争议一个错的问题
05:54
The issue here is how do we get a partnership that involves government donors,
真正的问题应是我们应该怎样调节好政府资助
05:58
the private sector and ordinary African people
私营单位和负责他们自己生活的
06:00
taking charge of their own lives?
普通非洲人民的合作关系
06:04
How do we combine all this?
我们怎样把这些因素整合起来
06:07
To move our continent forward, to do the things that need doing
去发展非洲,去做所需之事
06:12
that I talked about -- getting young people employed.
我所要表达的意思就是--让年轻人有工作
06:14
Getting the creative juices flowing on this continent,
让非洲到处充满着创造性
06:17
much of what you have seen here.
很多你们已经在这里看到了
06:20
So I'm afraid we've been engaging a little bit in the wrong debate.
所以我担心你们其实在争议上有些错误
06:23
We need to bring it back to say,
我们需要回过头去问
06:26
what is the combination of all these factors
所有这些因素整合起来会是怎么样了
06:28
that is going to yield what we want? (Applause)
去获得我们所需要的?
06:31
And I want to tell you something.
我想要跟你们说件事
06:35
For me, the issue about aid --
对我来说,援助这事--
06:40
I don't think that Africans need to now go all the way over to the other side
我觉得非洲人民不需要总是走另一个极端
06:43
and feel bad about aid.
对援助感到不好意思
06:47
Africa has been giving the other countries aid.
非洲一直以来都给别的国家援助
06:50
Mo Ibrahim said at a debate we were at that
莫爱布雷因在一次讨论会上说--
06:53
he dreams one day when Africa will be giving aid.
他梦想着有一天非洲能够援助别国
06:58
And I said, "Mo, you're right. We have -- no, but we've already been doing it!
然后我说,“莫,说得没错。我们已经--错了,我们一直以来都在这样做!”
07:00
The U.K. and the U.S. could not have been built today without Africa's aid."
英国和美国如果没有非洲的援助是不可能发展到今天的
07:03
(Applause)
鼓掌
07:09
It is all the resources that were taken from Africa,
所有的资源都是从非洲掠夺去的
07:17
including human, that built these countries today!
包括人,这些资源成就了今天的他们
07:20
So when they try to give back, we shouldn't be on the defensive.
所以当他们回来援助我们时,我们不应该有抵触心理
07:24
The issue is not that.
问题不在这里
07:30
The issue is how are we using what has been given back.
问题在于我们应怎样使用他们给我们的资源,他们还给我们的资源
07:33
How are we using it?
我们正怎样地使用这些资源
07:37
Is it being directed effectively?
会直接产生效益吗
07:40
I want to tell you a little story.
我想告诉你们一个小故事
07:45
Why I don't mind if we get aid, but we use it well.
为什么我对是否能获得援助并不关心,但关注是否能有效利用援助
07:48
From 1967 to '70, Nigeria fought a war -- the Nigeria-Biafra war.
1967年到1970年,尼日利亚发生了战争--尼日利亚-比夫拉战争
07:57
And in the middle of that war, I was 14 years old.
战争期间,我只有14岁
08:00
We spent much of our time with my mother cooking.
我们很多时间都在和我的母亲一起做饭
08:04
For the army -- my father joined the army as a brigadier -- the Biafran army.
给军队吃--我的父亲在军队中做陆军总将--比夫拉军队
08:06
We were on the Biafran side.
我们站在比夫拉一边
08:09
And we were down to eating one meal a day, running from place to place,
我们每天只吃一顿,还经常迁移
08:11
but wherever we could help we did.
到能提供帮助的地方
08:14
At a certain point in time, in 1969, things were really bad.
在1969年的某段时间,情况很糟糕
08:18
We were down to almost nothing in terms of a meal a day.
我们几乎天天都没得吃
08:22
People, children were dying of kwashiorkor.
人们,孩子因为营养不良而死去
08:26
I'm sure some of you who are not so young
我相信你们中稍年长的人
08:28
will remember those pictures.
会记得那些照片的
08:30
Well, I was in the middle of it.
而我就在其中
08:33
In the midst of all this, my mother fell ill with a stomach ailment for two or three days.
在那期间,我母亲食物中毒了两三天
08:35
We thought she was going to die.
我们想母亲可能会死
08:39
My father was not there.
父亲又没和我们在一起
08:41
He was in the army.
他在军队
08:43
So I was the oldest person in the house.
所以我是家里最大的
08:44
My sister fell very ill with malaria.
我的妹妹患了疟疾
08:48
She was three years old and I was 15.
她只有三岁而我那时15岁
08:53
And she had such a high fever. We tried everything.
她发着严重的高烧--我们试了所有办法
08:58
It didn't look like it was going to work.
但似乎都没有用
09:00
Until we heard that 10 kilometers away there was a doctor, who was
直到我们听说10公里外有个医生,她能够--
09:04
looking at people and giving them meds.
治疗病人并给他们药物
09:08
Now I put my sister on my back -- burning --
于是我背着妹妹--非常烫--
09:10
and I walked 10 kilometers with her strapped on my back.
把她捆在背上走了10公里
09:14
It was really hot. I was very hungry.
那时非常热,我又非常饿
09:17
I was scared because I knew her life depended on my getting to this woman.
我很害怕,因为我知道她的生命就完全取决于我能否走到医生那里
09:22
We heard there was a woman doctor who was treating people.
我们听说有个会治病的女医生
09:25
I walked 10 kilometers, putting one foot in front of the other.
我一步一个脚印地艰难地走了10公里
09:27
I got there and I saw huge crowds.
当我到了那里,看到一群人围着
09:30
Almost a thousand people were there, trying to break down the door.
差不多有一千人,都在挤进门
09:33
She was doing this in a church. How was I going to get in?
她在一个教堂里看病。那我怎么才能进去呢?
09:36
I had to crawl in between the legs of these people
我必须在这些人的腿间爬行前进
09:42
with my sister strapped on my back,
背上捆着妹妹
09:45
find a way to a window.
爬到了窗边
09:49
And while they were trying to break down the door,
当所有人都想挤进门的时候
09:50
I climbed in through the window, and jumped in.
我从窗户进去,跳进了教堂
09:53
This woman told me it was in the nick of time.
女医生说我来得非常及时
09:57
By the time we jumped into that hall, she was barely moving.
当我们跳进教堂大厅时,她几乎无法动弹了
10:00
She gave a shot of her chloroquine -- what I learned was the chloroquine then --
她给妹妹注射了一剂氯喹(治疟疾的药),那时我所知道的就是氯喹--
10:04
gave her some -- it must have been a re-hydration --
然后给了妹妹一些--这肯定是水合作用的结果--
10:08
and some other therapies, and put us in a corner.
其他的一些药物,把我们放到了一个角落
10:11
In about two to three hours, she started to move.
大概两三个小时后,妹妹开始动了
10:18
And then they toweled her down because she started sweating,
接着他们给她擦汗,因为她开始流汗了
10:23
which was a good sign.
那是个好兆头
10:26
And then my sister woke up.
接着我妹妹醒过来了
10:31
And about five or six hours later, she said we could go home.
大概五六个小时后,她说可以回家了
10:35
I strapped her on my back.
我把她捆在背上
10:38
I walked the 10 kilometers back and it was the shortest walk I ever had.
我走了10公里回去,这是我走过的最短的路了
10:41
I was so happy -- (Applause) -- that my sister was alive!
我非常开心--(鼓掌)--我的妹妹被救活了!
10:45
Today she's 41 years old, a mother of three,
现在,她已经41岁了,是三个孩子的母亲
10:52
and she's a physician saving other lives.
她是个医师,挽救着其他生命
10:54
Why am I telling that? I'm telling you that because --
为什么我要说这个?我是在告诉你们因为--
10:57
when it is you or your person involved --
如果那是你--或你的家人--
10:59
you don't care where -- whether it's aid.
你并不关心援助在哪里--援助什么
11:05
You don't care what it is! (Applause)
你不关心到底是什么援助!
11:10
You just want the person to be alive!
你只是想让人活下去
11:18
And now let me become less sentimental, and say that saving lives --
现在我让自己不那么伤感了,我认为挽救生命
11:23
which some of the aid we get does on this continent --
在非洲有些援助是有这个效果
11:26
when you save the life of anyone, a farmer, a teacher, a mother,
当你救了别人的命,如农民,教师或一位母亲
11:29
they are contributing productively into the economy.
他们对经济是有很大贡献的
11:32
And as an economist, we can also look at that side of the story.
作为一名经济学家,我们也可以看到故事的这一层含义
11:34
These are people who are productive agents in the economy.
这些人在经济上是生产力的代表
11:43
So if we save people from HIV/AIDS, if we save them from malaria,
所以如果我们拯救得爱滋病的人,如果我们拯救得了疟疾的人
11:45
it means they can form the base of production for our economy.
这些人就成了经济生产力的基础
11:49
And by the same token --
同样
11:52
as someone said yesterday -- if we don't and they die,
就像昨天有人说的,如果你不救,他们就会死
11:56
their children will become a burden on the economy.
他们的孩子就会成为整个经济的负担
11:58
So even from an economic standpoint,
甚至从经济学的角度看
12:00
if we leave the social and the humanitarian,
如果我们是社会性的和人道主义的
12:04
we need to save lives now.
我们必须要去拯救生命
12:06
So that's one of the reasons, from a personal experience, that I say
那是其中一个原因,我个人的经历告诉我们
12:09
let's channel these resources we get into something productive.
要将我们获得的资源分配到生产力上
12:12
However, I will also tell you that I'm one of those
然后,我也想告诉你们很多人,包括我在内
12:18
who doesn't believe that this is the sole answer.
不相信这是唯一的出路
12:22
That's why I said the debate has to get more sophisticated.
这也是为什么我说这个讨论会应该更精细
12:25
You know, we have to use it well.
你们知道,我们应该很好利用这些资源
12:28
What has happened in Europe?
欧洲怎么做的呢?
12:34
Do you all know that Spain -- part of the EU --
你们都知道西班牙--欧盟的成员国--
12:38
got 10 billion dollars in aid from the rest of the EU?
从欧盟的其他成员国那里获得100亿欧元的援助?
12:42
Resources that were transferred to them --
援助到了他们手中--
12:46
and were the Spanish ashamed of this? No!
西班牙有没有觉得丢脸?不会!
12:50
The EU transferred 10 billion. Where did they use it?
欧盟援助了100亿。这些钱都用到哪儿了?
12:53
Have you been to southern Spain lately? There are roads everywhere.
你们最近有去过西班牙南部吗?那里到处是路
12:55
Infrastructure everywhere.
到处是基础设施
13:00
It is on the back of this that the whole of southern Spain
由于基础设施的支持,整个南部西班牙
13:03
has developed into a services economy.
已经发展成服务经济了
13:05
Did you know that Ireland got 3 billion dollars in aid?
你们知道爱尔兰获得30亿的援助吗?
13:08
Ireland is one of the fastest-growing economies in the European Union today.
爱尔兰是现在欧盟发展最快的国家之一
13:10
For which many people, even from other parts of the world,
许多人,甚至是世界其他国家的人
13:14
are going there to find jobs.
到那里去找工作
13:20
What did they do with the 3 billion dollars in aid?
爱尔兰人到底拿了这30亿去做什么了?
13:22
They used it to build an information superhighway,
他们用这些钱建了信息高速公路
13:25
gain infrastructure that
这个基础设施使得爱尔兰能够参与--
13:28
enables them to participate in the
或者现在能够参与--
13:32
information technology revolution,
信息技术革命
13:34
and to create jobs in their economy.
并且创造了很多就业机会
13:36
They didn't say, "No, you know, we're not going to take this."
他们没说,不,你们知道,我们不打算拿这笔钱
13:39
Today, the European Union is busy transferring aid.
现在,欧盟内部积极开展援助工作
13:41
My frustration is if they can build infrastructure in Spain --
我的疑惑是如果他们可以在西班牙建基础设施
13:44
which is roads, highways, other things that they can build --
那些公路,高速公路或其他一些基础设施
13:46
I say then, why do they refuse to use the same aid
那为什么他们拒绝用同样的援助资金
13:50
to build the same infrastructure in our countries? (Applause)
在我们国家建基础设施呢?(鼓掌)
13:52
When we ask them and tell them what we need,
当我们问他们,告诉他们我们需要什么的时候?
13:54
one of my worries today is that we have many foundations now.
现在我所担心的是我们现在有很多基金组织了
14:05
Now we talk about the World Bank, IMF, and accountability, all that
我们讲到世界银行,国际货币基金组织,可靠性和诸如此类的
14:07
and the EU.
以及欧盟
14:10
We also have private citizens now who have a lot of money --
我们也有一些很富有的公民
14:12
some of them in this audience, with private foundations.
他们有些人就是观众里面,和一些私人基金组织
14:17
And one day, these foundations have so much money,
有一天,这些组织会有很多钱
14:19
they will overtake the official aid that is being given.
他们将代替一直以来的政府援助
14:22
But I fear -- and I'm very grateful to all of them
但我担心---我也对他们很感激
14:25
for what they are trying to do on the continent --
他们为非洲所做的事
14:30
but I'm also worried. I wake up with a gnawing in my belly
但我也担心。我起床时肚子很痛
14:32
because I see a new set of aid entrepreneurs on the continent.
因为我看到一批新的援助企业家在非洲
14:39
And they're also going from country to country,
而且他们也行走于各国间
14:42
and many times trying to find what to do.
很多次都尝试着找到应该该做的事
14:46
But I'm not really sure that their assistance
但我真的不太确定他们的帮助
14:51
is also being channeled in the right way.
是否走对了方向
14:54
And many of them are not really familiar with the continent.
而且他们中的很多人不太了解非洲的情况
14:58
They are just discovering.
他们只是不断地在发现
15:00
And many times I don't see Africans working with them.
很多时候我都没看到他们与非洲人一起在工作
15:03
They are just going alone! (Applause)
他们经常独断独行!(鼓掌)
15:06
And many times I get the impression that they are not really even interested
而且很多时候我觉得他们不太感兴趣于
15:09
in hearing from Africans who might know.
听取非洲人的意见
15:11
They want to visit us,
他们就想访问我们
15:15
see what's happening on the ground and make a decision.
看看土地上发生着什么,然后做出决定
15:18
And now I'm maybe being harsh.
现在我所说的可能比较尖锐
15:20
But I worry because this money is so important.
但我焦虑是因为这点钱非常重要
15:22
Now, who are they accountable to?
现在,他们向谁负责?
15:25
Are we on their boards when they make decisions
当他们做决定投钱的时候我们是不是也在董事会呢?
15:30
about where to channel money? Are we there?
我们在那里吗?
15:32
Will we make the same mistake that we made before?
我们会犯以前犯过的错误吗?
15:35
Have our presidents and our leaders -- everyone is talking about --
我们的总统和领导人--每个人都在谈论--
15:38
have they ever called these people together and said,
有没有把这些人召集到一起说
15:40
"Look, your foundation and your foundation --
“看,你的基金组织和你的基金组织--
15:42
you have so much money, we are grateful.
你们有那么多钱,我们很感激
15:45
Let's sit down and really tell you where the money should be channeled
我们坐下来,商议一下这些钱应该怎么用
15:47
and where this aid should go."
和这些钱到底应该投向哪里。”
15:50
Have we done that? The answer is no.
我们有没有这样做呢?答案是不
15:53
And each one is making their own individual effort.
每个人都在做着他们自己的努力
15:58
And then 10 years from now, billions will again have gone into Africa,
至今十年间,上十亿的资金投入到非洲
16:01
and we would still have the same problems.
我们仍然存在同样的问题
16:04
This is what gives us the hopeless image.
这也就是展现给我们的绝望的场景
16:08
Our inability to take charge and say to all these people bringing their money,
我们没有能力掌控起来,对这些投钱的人说
16:11
"Sit down."
“坐下”
16:15
And we don't do it because there are so many of us. We don't coordinate.
我们没有这样做是因为我们人太多了,我们没有协调起来
16:17
We've not called the Bill Gates, and the Soros,
我们没有叫比尔盖茨和索罗斯--
16:19
and everybody else who is helping and say,
以及其他帮助非洲的人说
16:25
"Sit down. Let's have a conference with you.
“坐下,咱们开个会。
16:30
As a continent, here are our priorities.
作为一个大陆,这是我们最需要的。
16:33
Here is where we want you to channel this money."
这里需要你们投入金钱。”
16:36
Each one should not be an entrepreneur
不是每个人都是企业家
16:40
going out and finding what is best.
出动一下就能发现什么才是最好的
16:42
We're not trying to stop them at all! But to help them help us better.
我们并没有阻止他们这样做。根本没有!但让他们能够更有效地帮助我们
16:45
And what is disappointing me is that we are not doing this.
但让我感觉失望的是我们并没有这样在做
16:49
Ten years from now we will have the same story,
至今10年,我们的问题依然存在
16:52
and we will be repeating the same things.
并且还会重复出现
16:54
So our problem right now is, how can we leverage
所以我们现在的问题是我们应该怎样协调
16:59
all this good will that is coming towards our way?
那些向我们所表达的好意
17:04
How can we get government to combine properly
我们怎样才能使政府很恰当地整合
17:10
with these private foundations, with the international organizations,
私营基金组织和国际组织
17:14
and with our private sector.
和我们那些私营单位
17:17
I firmly believe in that private sector thing too.
我也对私营单位充满着信心
17:20
But it cannot do it alone.
但它不能单独行动
17:24
So there might be a few ideas we could think of that could work.
所以可能有些想法会奏效
17:26
They said this is about proliferating and sharing ideas.
他们说这有关于推广和分离想法
17:29
So why don't we think of using some of this aid?
所以我们为什么不想想怎样使用援助资金
17:32
Well, why don't we first say to those helping us out,
而且,为什么我们不首先对那些帮助我们的人说
17:37
"Don't be shy about infrastructure.
不要在基础设施建设上吝啬
17:40
That health that you're working on cannot be sustainable without infrastructure.
你们发展的医疗如果没有基础设施建设是无法长久的
17:42
That education will work better
教育会发展地更好
17:49
if we've got electricity and railroads, and so on.
如果你们建设了电力和铁路,以及其他
17:54
That agriculture will work better if there are railroads to get the goods to market.
农业也会发展更好如果有铁路可以把作物运送到市场
17:57
Don't be shy of it.
千万别对基础设施不感兴趣
18:00
Invest some of your resources in that, too."
也把你们的资源投到那里去吧
18:05
And then we can see that this is one combination
于是我们可以发现这其实就是整合了
18:08
of private, international, multilateral money,
私人的,国际社会的以及多方面的资金
18:13
private sector and the African that we can put together as a partnership,
私营单位和非洲人可以合作
18:17
so that aid can be a facilitator.
那么援助就是一个发展推进器
18:20
That is all aid can be.
那也是援助该有的效果
18:25
Aid cannot solve our problems, I'm firmly convinced about that.
我坚信援助不能解决我们的问题
18:28
But it can be catalytic. And if we fail to use it as catalytic,
但却可以成为催化剂。如果我们没能用它做催化剂
18:30
we would have failed.
我们就会失败
18:34
One of the reasons why China is a bit popular with Africans now --
中国为什么更受非洲人欢迎的一个原因就是--
18:39
one of the reasons is not only just that, you know, these people are stupid
众多原因之一--不仅在于这个,有些人说你们这些人很愚蠢
18:42
and China is coming to take resources.
中国一直是为争夺资源而来非洲的
18:47
It's because there's a little more leverage in terms of the Chinese.
这是因为中国人更懂得经济杠杆
18:50
If you tell them, "We need a road here,"
如果你告诉他们,“我们需要在这里建条路。”
18:56
they will help you build it.
他们会帮你建好
19:01
They don't shy away from infrastructure.
千万不要不管基础设施建设
19:03
In fact, the Chinese minister of finance said to me,
事实上,中国财政部长对我说
19:04
when I asked him what are we doing wrong in Nigeria.
当我问他尼日利亚具体错在哪里时
19:06
He said, "There are two things you need only.
他说你们只需要做两件事
19:08
Infrastructure, infrastructure, infrastructure and discipline.
“基础设施,基础设施,基础设施--以及规划,
19:11
You are undisciplined." (Applause)
你们没有规划。”(鼓掌)
19:14
And I repeat it for the continent.
然后我觉得整个非洲都该这样
19:23
It's the same. We need infrastructure, infrastructure and discipline.
道理是一样的,我们需要基础设施,基础设施和规划
19:27
So we can make a catalytic to help us provide some of that.
所以我们可以使催化刘帮助我们提供部分基础设施
19:28
Now I realize -- I'm not saying -- health and education --
现在我意识到,我不是说,医疗和教育
19:31
no, you can also provide that as well.
不,你们也是可以在那两个方面投入资金的
19:35
But I'm saying it's not either or.
但我不是想说只能两者选其一
19:38
Let's see how aid can be a facilitator in partnership.
让我们来看看援助怎样成为推进器,在合作之中
19:41
One idea.
这是一个想法
19:43
Second thing, for the private sector,
第二,对私营单位来说
19:46
people are afraid to take risks on the continent.
他们担心在非洲有很大风险
19:49
Why can't some of this aid be used as a kind of guarantee mechanisms,
为什么有些援助就不能用来担保
19:53
to enable people to take risk?
这些人可能遇到的风险呢?
19:55
(Applause)
(鼓掌)
19:59
And finally, because they are both standing at my -- I'm out of time.
但最后,因为他们都站着--我时间用完了--我的时间用完了
20:00
Am I out of time?
我的时间到了吗?
20:06
OK, so let me not forget my punchline.
好的,那让我说完我的结束语
20:09
One of the things I want everybody to collaborate on is
其中一件事就是我想每个人团结起来
20:12
to support women, to create jobs. (Applause)
帮助妇女就业。(鼓掌)
20:15
A lot has been said here about women, I don't need to repeat it.
在这里妇女的话题谈了很多,我也不想重复
20:24
But there are people -- women -- creating jobs.
但有些妇女的确在创造就业
20:26
And we know, studies have shown
据我们所知,研究已经表明
20:29
that when you put resources in the hand of the woman --
当你把资源交由妇女来管理时
20:31
in fact, there's an econometric study,
事实上,那是一个计量经济学上的统计--
20:34
the World Bank Review, done in 2000, showing that
世界银行在2000年的年报中已经表明
20:36
transfers into the hands of women result
由妇女来管理会
20:39
in healthier children, more for the household, more for the economy and all that.
让孩子更健康,家庭会更好,经济也会更好以及其他的
20:42
So I'm saying that one of the takeaways from here --
所以我是想说的是
20:47
I'm not saying the men are not important --
我并不是想说男人不重要
20:50
obviously, if you leave the husbands out, what will they do?
很明显,如果妇女离开了丈夫,她们会怎样
20:51
They'll come back home and get disgruntled,
她们回到家中,变得不高兴
20:54
and it will result in difficulties we don't want.
这就会导致我们不愿见到的困难
20:56
We don't want men beating their wives
我们不允许男人因为
21:00
because they don't have a job, and so on.
女人没有工作而打女人
21:02
But at the margin, we also -- I want to push this,
但至少,我们也--我想推广这个想法
21:05
because the reason is the men automatically --
因为原因在于男人会自动地--
21:08
they get -- not automatically, but they tend to get more support.
不是自动地--但他们倾向于获得更多帮助
21:12
But I want you to realize that resources
但我想你们要意识到资源
21:17
in the hands of African women is a powerful tool.
掌控在非洲女人心中也是很有用的
21:20
There are people creating jobs.
有些妇女就在创造就业
21:24
Beatrice Gakuba has created 200 jobs from her flower business in Rwanda.
碧翠丝 加库马在卢旺达的鲜花生意中创造了200个就业岗位
21:28
We have Ibukun Awosika in Nigeria, with the chair company.
在尼日利亚,伊布康 阿沃斯卡的家具--椅子公司
21:30
She wants to expand.
她还要扩大公司
21:35
She needs another 20 million.
她需要另外2000万资金
21:37
She will create another 100, 200 more jobs.
她会创造10万2百多个岗位
21:39
So take away from here is how are you going to put together
所以接下来的问题就是你们怎样整合
21:43
the resources to put money in the hands of women in the middle
那些把资金交由那些妇女掌控的资源
21:47
who are ready --
这些妇女已经有一定的经济实力
21:49
business people who want to expand and create more jobs.
那些想扩大公司并创造更多就业岗位的商人
21:53
And lastly, what are you going to do
最后,你们也可以个人身份去
21:56
to be part of this partnership of aid, government, private sector
参与与政府,私营单位
22:01
and the African as an individual?
以及非洲人的合作
22:06
Thank you. (Applause)
谢谢。(鼓掌)
22:09
Translated by Bin Xie
Reviewed by Zhu Jie

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About the speaker:

Ngozi Okonjo-Iweala - Economist
Ngozi Okonjo-Iweala is a respected global economist.

Why you should listen

Okonjo-Iweala was the Finance Minister of Nigeria, Africa’s largest economy, from 2003 to 2006, and then briefly the country’s Foreign Affairs Minister, the first woman to hold either position. From 2011 to 2015 she was again named Minister of Finance and Coordinating Minister for the Economy of Nigeria. Between those terms, from 2007 to 2011, she was one of the managing director of the World Bank and a candidate to the organization’s presidency. She is now a senior advisor at financial advisory and asset management firm Lazard, and she chairs the Board of the Global Alliance for Vaccines and Immunization. At the World Bank, she worked for change in Africa and assistance for low-income countries. As Finance Minister, she attacked corruption to make Nigeria more transparent and desirable for investment and jobs, an activism that attracted criticism from circles opposed to reform.

More profile about the speaker
Ngozi Okonjo-Iweala | Speaker | TED.com