TEDSalon NY2014
Kwame Anthony Appiah: Is religion good or bad? (This is a trick question)
奎迈·安东尼·阿皮亚: 宗教是好还是坏？（一个刁钻的问题）
Filmed:
Readability: 4.2
1,809,043 views
人们以宗教的名义做了许多好事，也同样做了许多坏事。但到底什么是宗教－－它本身是好还是坏？哲学家 奎迈·安东尼·阿皮亚给我们提供了一个既广博又出人意料的观察视角。
Kwame Anthony Appiah - Philosopher
Kwame Anthony Appiah is a philosopher, cultural theorist and novelist. His latest book is "The Honor Code," exploring moral revolutions. Full bio
Kwame Anthony Appiah is a philosopher, cultural theorist and novelist. His latest book is "The Honor Code," exploring moral revolutions. Full bio
Double-click the English transcript below to play the video.
00:12
People say things about religion all the time.
0
509
4227
人们总是在谈论着宗教。
00:16
(Laughter)
1
4736
1974
（笑声）
00:18
The late, great Christopher Hitchens
2
6710
2250
已故的伟大的克里斯托弗·希钦斯
00:20
wrote a book called "God Is Not Great"
3
8960
1421
写过一本书，叫做《上帝并不伟大》
00:22
whose subtitle was, "Religion Poisons Everything."
4
10381
3532
它的副标题是：宗教毒害一切。
00:25
(Laughter)
5
13913
1373
（笑声）
00:27
But last month, in Time magazine,
6
15286
4094
但是，在上个月的《时代》杂志上，
00:31
Rabbi David Wolpe, who I gather
is referred to as America's rabbi,
is referred to as America's rabbi,
7
19380
4013
拉比·戴维·沃尔普，
也就是那个被誉为美国的拉比（先知）的人，
也就是那个被誉为美国的拉比（先知）的人，
00:35
said, to balance that against
that negative characterization,
that negative characterization,
8
23393
4638
为了反对这些对于宗教的消极看法，
00:40
that no important form of social change
9
28031
2624
他说：只有有组织的宗教活动
00:42
can be brought about except through organized religion.
10
30655
4340
能够带来重要的社会形势的变革。
00:46
Now, remarks of this sort on the negative
11
34995
1978
至今为止这些对于宗教的不好
00:48
and the positive side are very old.
12
36973
3037
乃至好的评价都已经是老生常谈了。
00:52
I have one in my pocket here
13
40010
2441
我现在就能想到一个：
00:54
from the first century BCE by Lucretius,
14
42451
5915
公元前的第一个世纪，
卢克莱修（古罗马哲学家及诗人），
卢克莱修（古罗马哲学家及诗人），
01:00
the author of "On the Nature of Things," who said,
15
48366
2863
也就是《物性论》的作者，他说，
01:03
"Tantum religio potuit suadere malorum" --
16
51229
4283
"Tantum religio potuit suadere malorum" （拉丁文）
01:07
I should have been able to learn that by heart —
17
55512
2622
我应该是已经把它铭记于心了的，
01:10
which is, that's how much religion
18
58134
2688
它的意思就是，宗教
01:12
is able to persuade people to do evil,
19
60822
2510
是可以使人们做一些邪恶的事情的，
01:15
and he was talking about the fact
20
63332
1787
同时他还陈述了一个真实案例：
01:17
of Agamemnon's decision to place his daughter
21
65119
3045
阿伽门农决定将其女儿
01:20
Iphigenia on an altar of sacrifice
22
68164
1911
依菲琴尼亚作为祭祀的贡品，
01:22
in order to preserve the prospects of his army.
23
70075
3500
为的是保佑他的军队
能够在以后的战争中所向披靡。
能够在以后的战争中所向披靡。
01:25
So there have been these long debates
24
73575
2896
因而从这个事件中就可以看出，
01:28
over the centuries, in that case, actually,
25
76471
1889
实际上，有关宗教的讨论可以追溯到很久以前，
01:30
we can say over the millennia, about religion.
26
78360
1586
我们甚至可以说超过了一千年。
01:31
People have talked about it a lot,
27
79946
1853
人们说了很多关于宗教的问题，
01:33
and they've said good and bad
28
81799
1798
有好有坏，
01:35
and indifferent things about it.
29
83597
3509
观点不一。
01:39
What I want to persuade you of today
30
87106
1735
而我今天想和大家分享的
01:40
is of a very simple claim,
31
88841
1603
只是一个很简单的想法:
01:42
which is that these debates are
32
90444
2237
所有的这些争论
01:44
in a certain sense preposterous,
33
92681
2493
在某种程度上都是荒谬的，
01:47
because there is no such thing as religion
34
95174
4171
因为这个世界上根本没有宗教这种东西，
01:51
about which to make these claims.
35
99345
1735
所以也就不应该产生这些观点。
01:53
There isn't a thing called religion,
36
101080
1388
既然这个世界上根本没有宗教这种东西，
01:54
and so it can't be good or bad.
37
102468
3051
我们也不应该评价其好坏。
01:57
It can't even be indifferent.
38
105519
2161
它甚至不能作为一个中立的说法。
01:59
And if you think about claims
39
107680
2459
如果你想想
02:02
about the nonexistence of things,
40
110139
3988
其他的不存在的事物，
02:06
one obvious way to try and establish
41
114127
2192
一个很明显的检验这个观点
02:08
the nonexistence of a purported thing
42
116319
2452
是不是不存在的一个方法是
02:10
would be to offer a definition of that thing
43
118771
2458
按照这些观点定义这个事物，
02:13
and then to see whether anything satisfied it.
44
121229
2761
然后看看是否能寻找到符合这个定义的事物。
02:15
I'm going to start out on that little route
45
123990
3212
我今天的演讲也将按照这条小路线
02:19
to begin with.
46
127202
1209
出发。
02:20
So if you look in the dictionaries
47
128411
2577
当你希望依靠翻阅字典来
02:22
and if you think about it,
48
130988
1150
明白宗教的意思时，
02:24
one very natural definition of religion
49
132138
2369
你会发现字典上
02:26
is that it involves belief in gods or in spiritual beings.
50
134507
5817
它的定义与相信上帝或者精神层面的事物有关。
02:32
As I say, this is in many dictionaries,
51
140324
1506
就像我刚才说的，
这是大多数字典中给出的答案，
这是大多数字典中给出的答案，
02:33
but you'll also find it actually
52
141830
2751
但是你也会发现，实际上，
02:36
in the work of Sir Edward Tylor,
53
144581
1627
在爱德华·泰勒的著作中也提到了这个观点，
02:38
who was the first professor
of anthropology at Oxford,
of anthropology at Oxford,
54
146208
2227
泰勒是牛津大学的第一位人类学教授，
02:40
one of the first modern anthropologists.
55
148435
1996
也是近代第一批人类学家中的一员。
02:42
In his book on primitive culture,
56
150431
2234
在他有关远古文化的著作中，
02:44
he says the heart of religion
is what he called animism,
is what he called animism,
57
152665
3020
他说，宗教的中心应该称作万物有灵论，
02:47
that is, the belief in spiritual agency,
58
155685
1718
也就是信仰神的使者，
02:49
belief in spirits.
59
157403
2377
信仰神灵。
02:51
The first problem for that definition
60
159780
2008
这个定义首先出现的一个问题
02:53
is from a recent novel by Paul Beatty called "Tuff."
61
161788
2740
源于保罗•贝蒂最新出版的一本小说，叫做《塔夫》。
02:56
There's a guy talking to a rabbi.
62
164528
1406
他写道一个人向拉比求助。
02:57
The rabbi says he doesn't believe in God.
63
165934
2396
然而拉比却说他自己并不相信上帝。
03:00
The guy says, "You're a rabbi,
how can you not believe in God?"
how can you not believe in God?"
64
168330
2430
这个人又说，
”你是拉比，你怎么能不相信上帝呢？“
”你是拉比，你怎么能不相信上帝呢？“
03:02
And the reply is, "It's what's
so great about being Jewish.
so great about being Jewish.
65
170760
3391
他回答道，“这就是作为一名犹太人的好处，
03:06
You don't have to believe in a God per se,
66
174151
1963
你并不用信奉上帝本身，
03:08
just in being Jewish." (Laughter)
67
176114
2456
只要相信自己是个犹太人就行。”（笑声）
03:10
So if this guy is a rabbi, and a Jewish rabbi,
68
178570
3028
所以，如果这个人是一个拉比，
并且是一个犹太人的拉比，
并且是一个犹太人的拉比，
03:13
and if you have to believe in
God in order to be religious,
God in order to be religious,
69
181598
3192
同时你又为了有宗教信仰而信仰上帝，
03:16
then we have the rather counterintuitive conclusion
70
184790
3283
那么我们会得出一个看似违反常理的结论，
03:20
that since it's possible to be a Jewish rabbi
71
188073
2192
既然可以有一个犹太的拉比
03:22
without believing in God,
72
190265
1889
不信奉上帝，
03:24
Judaism isn't a religion.
73
192154
2350
那么犹太教就不是一个宗教。
03:26
That seems like a pretty counterintuitive thought.
74
194504
3466
这仿佛是一个非常有悖常理的想法。
03:29
Here's another argument against this view.
75
197970
3261
这里还有另外一个反对这一观点的说法。
03:33
A friend of mine, an Indian friend of mine,
76
201231
2172
我一个朋友，一个印度朋友，
03:35
went to his grandfather when he was very young,
77
203403
2183
在他很小的时候，有一次他去看他的祖父，
03:37
a child, and said to him,
78
205586
1135
这时候他还是个孩子，他对他的祖父说，
03:38
"I want to talk to you about religion,"
79
206721
2119
“我想和你谈谈宗教这个话题，”
03:40
and his grandfather said, "You're too young.
80
208840
1245
他的祖父说，“你现在还太小，
03:42
Come back when you're a teenager."
81
210085
1531
等你变成一个真正的少年以后再来和我讨论这个话题。”
03:43
So he came back when he was a teenager,
82
211616
1843
当他成为少年以后，他又回来了，
03:45
and he said to his grandfather,
83
213459
1696
他对他祖父说，
03:47
"It may be a bit late now
84
215155
1326
“现在讨论这个话题也许有点晚了，
03:48
because I've discovered that
I don't believe in the gods."
I don't believe in the gods."
85
216481
3740
因为我已经发现了我并不相信上帝。”
03:52
And his grandfather, who was a wise man, said,
86
220221
2027
而他祖父则是一个非常明智的人，他说，
03:54
"Oh, so you belong to the atheist branch
87
222248
2184
“哦，原来你是传统印度教中
03:56
of the Hindu tradition." (Laughter)
88
224432
3186
无神论分支的一份子。”（笑声）
03:59
And finally, there's this guy,
89
227618
3702
最后，这个人
04:03
who famously doesn't believe in God.
90
231320
2456
变成一位非常有名的无神论着，
04:05
His name is the Dalai Lama.
91
233776
1818
他的名字是达赖喇嘛。
04:07
He often jokes that he's one
of the world's leading atheists.
of the world's leading atheists.
92
235594
2648
他总是开玩笑说他是世界上最有名的无神论者之一。
04:10
But it's true, because the Dalai Lama's religion
93
238242
2944
这是事实，因为达赖喇嘛的宗教信仰中
04:13
does not involve belief in God.
94
241186
2780
并不涉及相信上帝。
04:15
Now you might think this just shows
95
243966
1613
现在，你也许会认为
04:17
that I've given you the wrong definition
96
245579
3020
我刚才给大家展示的这些是对宗教的错误定义，
04:20
and that I should come up with some other definition
97
248599
2119
我还应该找到一些其他的定义
04:22
and test it against these cases
98
250718
1698
并逐一检测他们的正确性，
04:24
and try and find something that captures
99
252416
2571
尝试找到一个定义能够囊括
04:26
atheistic Judaism, atheistic Hinduism,
100
254987
2926
无神犹太教，无神印度教，
04:29
and atheistic Buddhism as forms of religiosity,
101
257913
3263
无神佛教，以及其他各种形式的信仰。
04:33
but I actually think that that's a bad idea,
102
261176
1794
但我真的认为这是一个坏主意，
04:34
and the reason I think it's a bad idea
103
262970
2329
我之所以认为它是一个坏主意
04:37
is that I don't think that's how
104
265299
1635
是因为我不相信
04:38
our concept of religion works.
105
266934
1631
我们这个寻找宗教定义的方法会起作用。
04:40
I think the way our concept of religion works
106
268565
1600
我认为我们对宗教的定义之所以起作用
04:42
is that we actually have, we have a list
107
270165
3038
实际上是因为我们列了一张
04:45
of paradigm religions
108
273203
1926
宗教变化表
04:47
and their sub-parts, right,
109
275129
3239
以及其分支，对吧，
04:50
and if something new comes along
110
278368
2554
如果出现了什么新的东西，
04:52
that purports to be a religion,
111
280922
1506
而他们又打算把自己划入宗教范畴内，
04:54
what we ask is, "Well, is it like one of these?"
112
282428
2464
我们就会问，“看，它们是不是和现存的那些很像呢？”
04:56
Right?
113
284892
2252
”不是吗？“
04:59
And I think that's not only
how we think about religion,
how we think about religion,
114
287144
2575
我想，这不是仅仅关于我们对宗教怎么看，
05:01
and that's, as it were,
115
289719
1300
而是，
05:03
so from our point of view,
116
291019
1791
仅从我个人观点来讲，
05:04
anything on that list had better be a religion,
117
292810
2083
我们认为那张清单上的每个名字最好都能是一种宗教，
05:06
which is why I don't think an account of religion
118
294893
1768
这也就是为什么我不认为排除了
05:08
that excludes Buddhism and Judaism
119
296661
1855
佛教和犹太教的宗教定义
05:10
has a chance of being a good starter,
120
298516
2700
不是一个好的开始，
05:13
because they're on our list.
121
301216
2704
因为它们的名字已经在我们的名单上了。
05:15
But why do we have such a list?
122
303920
1980
但是，为什么我们会有这样的一个名单呢？
05:17
What's going on? How did it come about
123
305900
1830
究竟发生了什么事？我们究竟是如何创造出
05:19
that we have this list?
124
307730
2187
这个名单的呢？
05:21
I think the answer is a pretty simple one
125
309917
2915
我认为，答案是非常简单的，
05:24
and therefore crude and contentious.
126
312832
3128
同时也是粗糙且富有争议的。
05:27
I'm sure a lot of people will disagree with it,
127
315960
1389
我相信很多人都不会同意我的看法，
05:29
but here's my story,
128
317349
1594
但是，这是我的故事，
05:30
and true or not, it's a story that I think
129
318943
2371
无论对错，我认为这个故事
05:33
gives you a good sense of how
130
321314
2428
都可以给大家一个关于这份清单的来历的
05:35
the list might have come about,
131
323742
1689
好的启发，
05:37
and therefore helps you to think about
132
325431
1309
因为可以帮大家明白
05:38
what use the list might be.
133
326740
1444
这份清单的作用究竟是什么。
05:40
I think the answer is, European travelers,
134
328184
3288
我认为答案就是，欧洲的探险家们，
05:43
starting roughly about the time of Columbus,
135
331472
1833
在大约哥伦布时期
05:45
started going around the world.
136
333305
1625
开始周游全世界。
05:46
They came from a Christian culture,
137
334930
2280
他们所信仰的某个基督文化，
05:49
and when they arrived in a new place,
138
337210
1810
当他们到达一个新地方以后，
05:51
they noticed that some people
didn't have Christianity,
didn't have Christianity,
139
339020
2885
他们就发现当地的一些人并没有信仰基督教，
05:53
and so they asked themselves
the following question:
the following question:
140
341905
2045
因而他们问了自己以下的一个问题：
05:55
what have they got instead of Christianity?
141
343950
3190
如果他们不信基督教，那他们信什么呢？
05:59
And that list was essentially constructed.
142
347140
3363
就这样，那份清单一点点建立出来了。
06:02
It consists of the things that other people had
143
350503
2276
它包含了那些不信基督教的人
06:04
instead of Christianity.
144
352779
2591
用什么其他信仰来代替基督教。
06:07
Now there's a difficulty with proceeding in that way,
145
355370
3368
但是，用这种方式继续进行下去面临着一些问题，
06:10
which is that Christianity is extremely,
146
358738
2440
因为基督教是非常特殊的，
06:13
even on that list, it's an extremely specific tradition.
147
361178
4412
即便是在这份清单里，它的传统惯例也是很特别的。
06:17
It has all kinds of things in it
148
365590
1561
基督教里所存在的东西
06:19
that are very, very particular
149
367151
2126
都是非常非常特别的，
06:21
that are the results of the specifics
150
369277
2296
因为它们都是基督教历史的
06:23
of Christian history,
151
371573
2687
特定产物。
06:26
and one thing that's at the heart of it,
152
374260
1597
在基督教中处于核心的东西，
06:27
one thing that's at the heart of
most understandings of Christianity,
most understandings of Christianity,
153
375857
2803
也就是基督教的核心教义，
06:30
which is the result of the
specific history of Christianity,
specific history of Christianity,
154
378660
2330
都是基督教历史的特定产物。
06:32
is that it's an extremely creedal religion.
155
380990
3143
这是一个有着极其严重的教条主义的宗教
06:36
It's a religion in which people are really concerned
156
384133
2680
这个宗教的人们真正关心的是
06:38
about whether you believe the right things.
157
386813
2739
你是否信仰正确的东西。
06:41
The history of Christianity, the
internal history of Christianity,
internal history of Christianity,
158
389552
2256
基督教的历史，基督教的内部历史，
06:43
is largely the history of people killing each other
159
391808
1876
其实大部分讲的都是人们之间的互相残杀，
06:45
because they believed the wrong thing,
160
393684
2116
因为他们没有信仰正确的东西。
06:47
and it's also involved in
161
395800
2079
当然，这其中也包括
06:49
struggles with other religions,
162
397879
1752
与其他宗教的争端，
06:51
obviously starting in the Middle Ages,
163
399631
3599
这些争端明显始于中世纪时期，
06:55
a struggle with Islam,
164
403230
1390
与伊斯兰教的争端，
06:56
in which, again, it was the infidelity,
165
404620
3120
又是因为无神与有神的争辩，
06:59
the fact that they didn't believe the right things,
166
407740
2030
认为他们没有信仰正确的事物
07:01
that seemed so offensive to the Christian world.
167
409770
3380
这对基督教的世界是一种严重的冒犯。
07:05
Now that's a very specific and particular history
168
413150
2638
当然，那是基督教非常特别的
07:07
that Christianity has,
169
415788
2365
历史故事，
07:10
and not everywhere is everything
170
418153
3218
但是，没有任何地方的任何事情
07:13
that has ever been put on this sort of list like it.
171
421371
3994
是像基督教一样被列到这个清单中的。
07:17
Here's another problem, I think.
172
425365
1407
接下来，我认为还有另一个问题。
07:18
A very specific thing happened.
173
426772
1338
发生了一件特殊的事情。
07:20
It was actually adverted to earlier,
174
428110
1452
其实我们前面有提到过这个问题，
07:21
but a very specific thing happened
175
429562
1541
一件非常特殊的事情发生在
07:23
in the history of the kind of Christianity
176
431103
2189
基督教的历史中，
07:25
that we see around us
177
433292
1521
这个历史是被我们
07:26
mostly in the United States today,
178
434813
2184
现代美国人所熟知的。
07:28
and it happened in the late 19th century,
179
436997
3103
这件事情发生在十九世纪后期，
07:32
and that specific thing that happened
180
440100
1409
这件在十九世纪
07:33
in the late 19th century
181
441509
1009
发生的重要的事
07:34
was a kind of deal that was cut
182
442518
2955
就是一个切断
07:37
between science,
183
445473
2510
与科学之间联系，
07:39
this new way of organizing intellectual authority,
184
447983
5693
这是一个管理知识权威（科学）
07:45
and religion.
185
453676
1197
与宗教的新手段。
07:46
If you think about the 18th century, say,
186
454873
1891
你设想一下十八世纪，
07:48
if you think about intellectual life
187
456764
1470
如果你设想一下
07:50
before the late 19th century,
188
458234
2356
十九世纪以前的知识界，
07:52
anything you did, anything you thought about,
189
460590
3170
所有你做的事，你想的事，
07:55
whether it was the physical world,
190
463760
2730
无论它是属于物理界，
07:58
the human world,
191
466490
1531
人类社会，
08:00
the natural world apart from the human world,
192
468021
2230
除了人类社会以外的自然界，
08:02
or morality, anything you did
193
470251
1967
或者是伦理道德方面，所有你做的事
08:04
would have been framed against the background
194
472218
1676
都会被当时的社会背景中的条条框框所限制住，
08:05
of a set of assumptions that were religious,
195
473894
2463
也就是宗教的背景，
08:08
Christian assumptions.
196
476357
1203
基督教的背景。
08:09
You couldn't give an account
197
477560
1666
你不可能在当时的世界中
08:11
of the natural world
198
479226
1596
提出一个观点
08:12
that didn't say something about its relationship,
199
480822
2922
却又不解释它与宗教、基督教之间的联系，
08:15
for example, to the creation story
200
483744
1808
例如，与亚伯拉罕故事中的
08:17
in the Abrahamic tradition,
201
485552
1540
创世纪，
08:19
the creation story in the first book of the Torah.
202
487092
3204
创世纪是犹太律法书的第一卷。
08:22
So everything was framed in that way.
203
490296
3317
所以说，所有事都要按照这个限制展开，
08:25
But this changes in the late 19th century,
204
493613
2432
但是在十九世纪末期发生的改变，
08:28
and for the first time, it's possible for people
205
496045
2325
第一次，使人们有可能
08:30
to develop serious intellectual careers
206
498370
2379
建立起严谨的知识领域
08:32
as natural historians like Darwin.
207
500749
2194
以及出现像达尔文这样的自然历史学家。
08:34
Darwin worried about the relationship between
208
502943
1985
达尔文担心他所说的话
08:36
what he said and the truths of religion,
209
504928
2553
与宗教给人们输入的事实之间的冲突，
08:39
but he could proceed, he could write books
210
507481
1925
但是他还是可以继续进行自己的研究，
08:41
about his subject
211
509406
1784
他可以写有关他研究内容的书籍，
08:43
without having to say what the relationship was
212
511190
2696
而不用解释他的研究内容与
08:45
to the religious claims,
213
513886
1472
宗教教义之间的关系，
08:47
and similarly, geologists
increasingly could talk about it.
increasingly could talk about it.
214
515358
2382
同理，地质学家们也在逐渐的谈论他们的发现。
08:49
In the early 19th century, if you were a geologist
215
517740
1802
在十九世纪初期，如果你是一个地质学家
08:51
and made a claim about the age of the Earth,
216
519542
1923
你发表了关于地球年龄的言论，
08:53
you had to explain whether that was consistent
217
521465
1642
你需要解释，地球是不是一直存在的，
08:55
or how it was or wasn't consistent
218
523107
1430
它是如何一直存在或者不存在的，
08:56
with the age of the Earth implied
219
524537
1372
因为在《创世纪》中已经
08:57
by the account in Genesis.
220
525909
1553
阐述过了地球的年龄。
08:59
By the end of the 19th century,
221
527462
1185
在十九世纪末期，
09:00
you can just write a geology textbook
222
528647
1513
你可以写一些有关地质学的教科书，
09:02
in which you make arguments
about how old the Earth is.
about how old the Earth is.
223
530160
2359
在里面你可以讨论旧时的地球是什么样的。
09:04
So there's a big change, and that division,
224
532519
2091
这是一个非常大的改变，这种分离，
09:06
that intellectual division of
labor occurs as I say, I think,
labor occurs as I say, I think,
225
534610
2935
这种智慧与劳动力的分离，我认为，
09:09
and it sort of solidifies so that by the end
226
537545
2825
在十九世纪末期的欧洲
09:12
of the 19th century in Europe,
227
540370
3158
得到了加深。
09:15
there's a real intellectual division of labor,
228
543528
1991
因为那时候出现了真正的智力与劳动力的分离，
09:17
and you can do all sorts of serious things,
229
545519
2000
你可以做各种各样严谨的研究，
09:19
including, increasingly, even philosophy,
230
547519
3902
其中包括各种各样的领域，甚至包括哲学，
09:23
without being constrained by the thought,
231
551421
2858
而且不用被当时的思想所禁锢：
09:26
"Well, what I have to say has to be consistent
232
554279
2281
“我所说的话必须始终如一的
09:28
with the deep truths that are given to me
233
556560
2679
贯穿在宗教传统教义的
09:31
by our religious tradition."
234
559239
2510
真理中。”
09:33
So imagine someone who's coming out
235
561749
2164
所以 ，大家想象一下如果谁走出了那个世界，
09:35
of that world, that late-19th-century world,
236
563913
3817
也就是十九世纪的末期的那个世界，
09:39
coming into the country that I grew up in, Ghana,
237
567730
3752
来到了我长大的地方，加纳，
09:43
the society that I grew up in, Asante,
238
571482
2260
来到了我长大的社会阿桑特
09:45
coming into that world
239
573742
1406
进入这个社会以后，
09:47
at the turn of the 20th century
240
575148
2016
来到二十世纪的转折点，
09:49
with this question that made the list:
241
577164
2023
带着以下的这些问题：
09:51
what have they got instead of Christianity?
242
579187
3763
他们用什么信仰代替了基督教？
09:54
Well, here's one thing he would have noticed,
243
582950
2857
这有一件事是值得我们大家注意的，
09:57
and by the way, there was a
person who actually did this.
person who actually did this.
244
585807
2344
顺便说一下，真的有人这么做了。
10:00
His name was Captain Rattray,
245
588151
1299
他就是拉特雷上尉，
10:01
he was sent as the British
government anthropologist,
government anthropologist,
246
589450
2052
他作为英国政府特派的一名人类学家来到了阿桑特，
10:03
and he wrote a book about Asante religion.
247
591502
1993
并写了一本有关阿桑特的宗教信仰的书。
10:05
This is a soul disc.
248
593495
2540
这是一个灵魂唱片，
10:08
There are many of them in the British Museum.
249
596035
2273
因为阿桑特的的许多东西都保留在大英博物馆里。
10:10
I could give you an interesting, different history
250
598308
1270
我可以给大家讲一个有趣而又与众不同的历史故事，
10:11
of how it comes about that many of the things
251
599578
2165
关于为什么很多
10:13
from my society ended up in the British Museum,
252
601743
3391
属于我成长的社会的事物最终会被保留在大英博物馆里，
10:17
but we don't have time for that.
253
605134
1811
但是由于时间的原因我就不给大家讲了。
10:18
So this object is a soul disc.
254
606945
1492
但是，这是一张灵魂唱片。
10:20
What is a soul disc?
255
608437
1138
那么什么是灵魂唱片呢？
10:21
It was worn around the necks
256
609575
1829
这是阿桑特国王挂在脖子上
10:23
of the soul-washers of the Asante king.
257
611404
2570
用来净化灵魂所使用的。
10:25
What was their job? To wash the king's soul.
258
613974
3555
他们的工作是什么呢？是净化国王的灵魂。
10:29
It would take a long while
259
617529
1905
要是解释灵魂怎么会
10:31
to explain how a soul could be the kind of thing
260
619434
2227
成为一件可以被净化的东西
10:33
that could be washed,
261
621661
1300
可能要花费很长一段时间，
10:34
but Rattray knew that this was religion
262
622961
2779
但是，拉特雷认为这就是宗教
10:37
because souls were in play.
263
625740
3503
因为其中有灵魂这个重要因素的参与。
10:41
And similarly,
264
629243
1746
与此相似的
10:42
there were many other things, many other practices.
265
630989
2207
还有很多其他的事情，其他的事实。
10:45
For example, every time anybody
had a drink, more or less,
had a drink, more or less,
266
633196
2363
例如，每次有人喝酒时，无论是多是少，
10:47
they poured a little bit on the ground
267
635559
2022
他们都会倒一点到地上，
10:49
in what's called the libation,
268
637581
1729
他们叫这种仪式为奠酒祭神，
10:51
and they gave some to the ancestors.
269
639310
1689
为的是将酒倒给祖先一些。
10:52
My father did this. Every time
he opened a bottle of whiskey,
he opened a bottle of whiskey,
270
640999
2349
我的父亲每次打开一瓶新的威士忌时都会这么做，
10:55
which I'm glad to say was very often,
271
643348
1521
我很高兴的是，他经常会开新的酒喝，
10:56
he would take the top off and
pour off just a little on the ground,
pour off just a little on the ground,
272
644869
3879
他会倒一点点在地上。
11:00
and he would talk to,
273
648748
1351
然后他会说话，
11:02
he would say to Akroma-Ampim, the founder of our line,
274
650099
3540
他会与我们的祖先Akroma-Ampim说话，
11:05
or Yao Antony, my great uncle,
275
653639
1596
或者与我的祖叔叔安东尼·姚说话，
11:07
he would talk to them,
276
655235
1895
他与他们说话，
11:09
offer them a little bit of this.
277
657130
2223
同时给他们倒一些酒。
11:11
And finally, there were these
huge public ceremonials.
huge public ceremonials.
278
659353
2885
最后，我要说的是一些宏大的公共仪式。
11:14
This is an early-19th-century drawing
279
662238
1416
这是一幅十九世纪早期由
11:15
by another British military officer
280
663654
1273
另一位英国军官所画的画，
11:16
of such a ceremonial,
281
664927
2050
画中主要描述了这样的一个仪式，
11:18
where the king was involved,
282
666977
2128
国王也参与到了这个仪式当中，
11:21
and the king's job,
283
669105
1406
而且这就是他工作的一部分，
11:22
one of the large parts of his job,
284
670511
1189
也是很大的一部分，
11:23
apart from organizing warfare and things like that,
285
671700
2951
他的工作除了组织战争这类事情之外，
11:26
was to look after the tombs of his ancestors,
286
674651
3346
就是看好祖先的墓地。
11:29
and when a king died,
287
677997
1997
当国王死后，
11:31
the stool that he sat on was blackened
288
679994
1514
他所坐的椅子会被涂黑，
11:33
and put in the royal ancestral temple,
289
681508
2884
放到皇家陵庙中。
11:36
and every 40 days,
290
684392
2129
每隔四十天，
11:38
the King of Asante has to go and do cult
291
686521
1855
阿桑特的国王都要去陵庙祭祀
11:40
for his ancestors.
292
688376
1362
祖先。
11:41
That's a large part of his job,
293
689738
1502
这是他工作中很大的一部分，
11:43
and people think that if he doesn't do it,
294
691240
1873
而且人们认为如果他不这样做，
11:45
things will fall apart.
295
693113
1731
所有的事情都会分崩瓦解。
11:46
So he's a religious figure,
296
694844
2366
所以，他是一个宗教领袖，
11:49
as Rattray would have said,
297
697210
1325
就像拉特雷说的那样，
11:50
as well as a political figure.
298
698535
2625
他同时也是一个政治领袖。
11:53
So all this would count as religion for Rattray,
299
701160
4684
这一切对于拉特雷来说都是宗教的一种表现，
11:57
but my point is that when you look
300
705844
1939
但是我认为当你看到
11:59
into the lives of those people,
301
707783
1382
这的人是如何生活的时候，
12:01
you also find that every time they do anything,
302
709165
2745
你也会发现每当他们要做什么事的时候，
12:03
they're conscious of the ancestors.
303
711910
2034
都会想着他们的祖先。
12:05
Every morning at breakfast,
304
713944
2033
每一顿早餐，
12:07
you can go outside the front of the house
305
715977
1826
你都要来到房子的前面
12:09
and make an offering to the god tree, the nyame dua
306
717803
3096
给你的家院子里的尼阿美圣树
12:12
outside your house,
307
720899
1184
献上祭品。
12:14
and again, you'll talk to the gods
308
722083
1317
同时，你也要和神灵们讲话，
12:15
and the high gods and the low gods
309
723400
1026
无论是是位高的神还是位低的神，你都要和他们讲话，
12:16
and the ancestors and so on.
310
724426
1658
也要和祖先们讲话。
12:18
This is not a world
311
726084
1536
这不是一个
12:19
in which the separation between religion and science
312
727620
2907
宗教与科学相分离的社会
12:22
has occurred.
313
730527
1574
会发生的事情。
12:24
Religion has not being separated
314
732101
1543
在这个社会中，只要有生命的存在，
12:25
from any other areas of life,
315
733644
1276
就会有宗教的产生。
12:26
and in particular,
316
734920
1997
特别要提出的是，
12:28
what's crucial to understand about this world
317
736917
1695
对于想要理解这个社会很重要的一点是，
12:30
is that it's a world in which the job
318
738612
1538
这个社会中的工作，
12:32
that science does for us
319
740150
1138
也就是本应由科学提供给我们的工作，
12:33
is done by what Rattray is going to call religion,
320
741288
3144
却是由拉特雷口中的宗教创造的，
12:36
because if they want an explanation of something,
321
744432
1940
因为如果他们想要一个事物的解释，
12:38
if they want to know why the crop just failed,
322
746372
1828
如果他们想要知道为什么庄稼收成不好，
12:40
if they want to know why it's raining
323
748200
1286
如果他们想要知道为什么会下雨，
12:41
or not raining, if they need rain,
324
749486
2418
或者当他们需要雨时，他们会问为什么还不下雨，
12:43
if they want to know why
325
751904
2524
如果他们想要知道为什么
12:46
their grandfather has died,
326
754428
1859
他们的祖父会死去，
12:48
they are going to appeal to the very same entities,
327
756287
2908
他们会用同一种方式寻求答案，
12:51
the very same language,
328
759195
1442
用同一种语言寻求助，
12:52
talk to the very same gods about that.
329
760637
2616
向同样的神求助。
12:55
This great separation, in other words,
330
763253
2089
换句话说，这个社会并没有发生
12:57
between religion and science hasn't happened.
331
765342
1931
宗教与科学之间的巨大分离。
12:59
Now, this would be a mere historical curiosity,
332
767273
4325
现在，这也许仅仅是一件历史趣事，
13:03
except that in large parts of the world,
333
771598
3452
但其实上，在世界上绝大一部分地区，
13:07
this is still the truth.
334
775050
2744
这都是事实。
13:09
I had the privilege of going to a wedding
335
777794
2008
有一次，我有幸参加一个
13:11
the other day in northern Namibia,
336
779802
1765
在北纳米比亚举行的婚礼，
13:13
20 miles or so south of the Angolan border
337
781567
2845
这是在英格拉边界向南20英里处的
13:16
in a village of 200 people.
338
784412
1733
一个居住着200人的小村庄。
13:18
These were modern people.
339
786145
1168
这些都是现代人。
13:19
We had with us Oona Chaplin,
340
787313
1891
和我们在一起的一个人叫奥娜·卓别林，
13:21
who some of you may have heard of,
341
789204
1409
也许在座的各位中也许有人听过她的名字，
13:22
and one of the people from
this village came up to her,
this village came up to her,
342
790613
2079
村庄中的一个找到了她，
13:24
and said, "I've seen you in 'Game of Thrones.'"
343
792692
2731
和她说，“我看到过你在《权利游戏》中的表演。”
13:27
So these were not people who
were isolated from our world,
were isolated from our world,
344
795423
3828
所以说，这些人不是过着与世隔绝的生活，
13:31
but nevertheless, for them,
345
799251
1529
但是，对于他们来说，
13:32
the gods and the spirits are still very much there,
346
800780
2553
神灵和精神仍然是他们生活中非常重要的部分。
13:35
and when we were on the bus going back and forth
347
803333
1826
当我们乘坐公共汽车在各种
13:37
to the various parts of the [ceremony],
348
805159
1662
活动中来来回回的时候，
13:38
they prayed not just in a generic way
349
806821
2577
我们发现，他们并不是笼统的祷告一些事，
13:41
but for the safety of the journey,
350
809398
1461
而是专门祈祷旅途安全，
13:42
and they meant it,
351
810859
911
而且他们是很认真的，
13:43
and when they said to me that my mother,
352
811770
3162
当他们和我说，我的母亲，
13:46
the bridegroom's [grandmother],
353
814932
1691
也就是新郎的“祖母”，
13:48
was with us, they didn't mean it figuratively.
354
816623
2562
和我们在一起，他们不是指一个象征的意义，
13:51
They meant, even though she was a dead person,
355
819185
2755
他们是真心的觉得即便她过世了，
13:53
they meant that she was still around.
356
821940
2578
但是她还在他们身边。
13:56
So in large parts of the world today,
357
824518
2549
所以，在当今世界的大多数地方，
13:59
that separation between science and religion
358
827067
2162
宗教和科学的分离
14:01
hasn't occurred in large parts of the world today,
359
829229
1681
并没有发生。
14:02
and as I say, these are not --
360
830910
3728
就像我说的，这些人并不是----
14:06
This guy used to work for Chase and at the World Bank.
361
834638
4802
这个人曾经在大通银行和世界银行工作过。
14:11
These are fellow citizens of the world with you,
362
839440
2707
他们是与你我一样的世界公民，
14:14
but they come from a place in which religion
363
842147
1809
只不过他们所生活的地方
14:15
is occupying a very different role.
364
843956
1911
宗教所扮演的角色和我们不同。
14:17
So what I want you to think about
next time somebody wants
next time somebody wants
365
845867
2126
所以我希望在下次有人试着
14:19
to make some vast generalization about religion
366
847993
2480
将不同宗教看成同一类东西时，
14:22
is that maybe there isn't such a thing
367
850473
2741
大家可以思考一下，也许宗教并不存在，
14:25
as a religion, such a thing as religion,
368
853214
2631
没有宗教这种东西，
14:27
and that therefore what they say
369
855845
1656
所以他们说的那些话
14:29
cannot possibly be true.
370
857501
2813
都不可能是事实。
14:32
(Applause)
371
860314
3212
（掌声）
ABOUT THE SPEAKER
Kwame Anthony Appiah - PhilosopherKwame Anthony Appiah is a philosopher, cultural theorist and novelist. His latest book is "The Honor Code," exploring moral revolutions.
Why you should listen
Kwame Anthony Appiah works on political and moral theory, the philosophy of language and mind, and African intellectual history. In his 2010 book The Honor Code, he explores a hidden engine of reform: appeals to honor. Examining moral revolutions in the past—and campaigns against abhorrent practices today—he shows that appeals to reason, morality, or religion aren’t enough to ring in reform.
He's the author of Lines of Descent, a thoughtful look at the career of sociologist W.E.B. DuBois, and Cosmopolitanism: Ethics in a World of Strangers, which studied "the powerful ties that connect people across religions, culture and nations … and of the deep conflicts within them." In 2008, Appiah published Experiments in Ethics, in which he reviews the relevance of empirical research to ethical theory. Appiah has also published several novels, including Avenging Angel, Nobody Likes Letitia and Another Death in Venice.
Kwame Anthony Appiah | Speaker | TED.com