TEDGlobal 2014
Ethan Nadelmann: Why we need to end the War on Drugs
伊森．納德曼: 為什麼我們需要結束禁毒戰爭
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禁毒戰爭是否弊大於利？藥物政策改革派伊森．納德曼在個這大膽的演說中慷慨陳詞，希望結束這場「落後、無情、災難性的」禁止毒品交易戰爭。他給出了兩個很大的原因，解釋為何我們應該把重心放在有智慧地規範藥物上。
Ethan Nadelmann - Drug policy reformer
Ethan Nadelmann has ushered the once-marginal issue of drug legalization onto the center stage of US political debate. Full bio
Ethan Nadelmann has ushered the once-marginal issue of drug legalization onto the center stage of US political debate. Full bio
Double-click the English transcript below to play the video.
00:12
What has the War on Drugs
done to the world?
done to the world?
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禁毒戰爭對世界帶來了什麼影響?
00:17
Look at the murder and mayhem in Mexico,
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看看在墨西哥、中美州和
00:19
Central America, so many
other parts of the planet,
other parts of the planet,
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世界各地的謀殺和打鬥;
00:23
the global black market estimated
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看看全球每年總值
00:24
at 300 billion dollars a year,
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約三千億的黑市;
00:27
prisons packed in the
United States and elsewhere,
United States and elsewhere,
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看看美國和其他地方那些人滿為患的監獄；
00:31
police and military drawn
into an unwinnable war
into an unwinnable war
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警察和軍隊被牽扯進入一場打不贏、
00:33
that violates basic rights,
and ordinary citizens
and ordinary citizens
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並且侵犯基本人權的戰爭,
00:36
just hope they don't get
caught in the crossfire,
caught in the crossfire,
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還有一班無辜的平民
祈求著不要被捲入搏火中。
祈求著不要被捲入搏火中。
00:39
and meanwhile, more people using
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但與此同時, 吸毒的人
00:42
more drugs than ever.
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卻是前所未有的多。
00:44
It's my country's history
with alcohol prohibition
with alcohol prohibition
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這像是我的國家的禁酒令
00:46
and Al Capone, times 50.
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和打黑的五十倍。
00:49
Which is why it's
particularly galling to me
particularly galling to me
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令我感到很難堪的是,
00:53
as an American that we've
been the driving force
been the driving force
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我們美國人正正就是這個
00:56
behind this global drug war.
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環球反毒戰背後的推手。
00:58
Ask why so many countries criminalize
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問問那些國家為什麼把
01:00
drugs they'd never heard of,
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他們連聽都沒聽過的藥物列為違法?
01:02
why the U.N. drug treaties emphasize
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為什麼聯合國的藥物條約會注重
01:05
criminalization over health,
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刑事定罪多於人民的健康?
01:07
even why most of the money worldwide
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甚至為什麼全世界大部分對付濫用藥物的資金
01:10
for dealing with drug abuse goes not
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都去了懲治濫藥的機構而不是
01:11
to helping agencies but those that punish,
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幫助改善濫藥的機構?
01:14
and you'll find the good old U.S. of A.
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你會發現美利堅大國就是背後的答案。
01:17
Why did we do this?
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我們為什麼要這樣做?
01:20
Some people, especially in Latin America,
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有些人，特別是在拉丁美洲的人,
01:23
think it's not really about drugs.
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認為這並非真正關乎毒品
01:25
It's just a subterfuge for advancing
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事實上, 這只不過是一個推進
01:27
the realpolitik interests of the U.S.
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美國政治利益的托詞。
01:30
But by and large, that's not it.
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但總的來說，又不僅如此。
01:33
We don't want gangsters and guerrillas
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我們不想黑幫和游擊隊
01:36
funded with illegal drug money
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有來自非法毒品的資金支持
01:38
terrorizing and taking over other nations.
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去恐嚇和接管其他國家。
01:41
No, the fact is, America really is crazy
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不，事實是，當涉及到毒品，
01:46
when it comes to drugs.
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美國真是瘋的。
01:48
I mean, don't forget, we're
the ones who thought
the ones who thought
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我的意思是，不要忘了，
我們就是那些認為自己
我們就是那些認為自己
01:50
that we could prohibit alcohol.
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可以禁酒的人。
01:52
So think about our global drug war
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所以，不要把全球反毒品戰爭想成
01:54
not as any sort of rational policy,
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任何一種理性的政策，
01:57
but as the international projection
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要把它想成一個國家精神病
01:59
of a domestic psychosis.
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延伸到了國際。
02:03
(Applause)
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(掌聲)
02:06
But here's the good news.
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但這裡有個好消息。
02:08
Now it's the Russians leading
the Drug War and not us.
the Drug War and not us.
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現在是俄羅斯在領導反毒戰爭，而不是我們。
02:11
Most politicians in my country
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大多數在我國政治家現在
02:12
want to roll back the Drug War now,
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想在反毒戰爭上退一步，
02:14
put fewer people behind bars, not more,
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判更少的人入獄，而不是更多，
02:17
and I'm proud to say as an American
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我可以很自豪地說，作為一個美國人
02:19
that we now lead the world
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我們現在正領導世界
02:21
in reforming marijuana policies.
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改革大麻政策。
02:23
It's now legal for medical purposes
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現在，只要是在合法的醫療目的下，
02:25
in almost half our 50 states,
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幾在乎美國50個州中的一半,
02:27
millions of people can
purchase their marijuana,
purchase their marijuana,
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數以百萬計的人都可以從政府許可的藥店購買
02:29
their medicine, in government-
licensed dispensaries,
licensed dispensaries,
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他們的大麻──他們的藥物，
02:32
and over half my fellow
citizens now say it's time
citizens now say it's time
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還有超過一半的同胞們說，現在是時候
02:35
to legally regulate and tax marijuana
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立法規範大麻和收取稅項,
02:37
more or less like alcohol.
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就跟酒精一樣。
02:39
That's what Colorado and
Washington are doing,
Washington are doing,
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這就是科羅拉多州和華盛頓正在做的，
02:41
and Uruguay, and others
are sure to follow.
are sure to follow.
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還有烏拉圭，其他地方也肯定會跟隨。
02:45
So that's what I do:
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所以，這就是我做的事：
02:48
work to end the Drug War.
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致力結束反毒品戰爭。
02:52
I think it all started growing up
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我想這一切始於成長在
02:54
in a fairly religious, moral family,
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一個比較篤信宗教的和注重道德的家庭,
02:57
eldest son of a rabbi,
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和作為一個猶太教教士的長子，
02:59
going off to university where I
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我去上大學時，
03:01
smoked some marijuana
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抽了一些大麻
03:04
and I liked it. (Laughter)
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而且很喜歡。 (笑聲)
03:07
And I liked drinking too, but it was obvious
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我也很喜歡喝酒，但很明顯
03:09
that alcohol was really the
more dangerous of the two,
more dangerous of the two,
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酒精在兩者中真的比較危險，
03:12
but my friends and I could get busted
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可是我和我的朋友是有可能會
03:13
for smoking a joint.
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因為吸大麻而被抓的。
03:15
Now, that hypocrisy kept bugging me,
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這個表裡不一的概念不停地纏著我，
03:17
so I wrote my Ph.D dissertation
on international drug control.
on international drug control.
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所以我寫了有關國際藥物管制的博士論文。
03:20
I talked my way into the State Department.
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我找方法進入了國務院。
03:23
I got a security clearance.
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我得到了安全許可。
03:24
I interviewed hundreds of DEA
and other law enforcement agents
and other law enforcement agents
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我採訪了數百名在歐洲和美洲等地的
03:27
all around Europe and the Americas,
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藥品管制局(DEA)以及執法人員，
03:29
and I'd ask them,
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我會問他們，
03:30
"What do you think the answer is?"
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“你認為答案是什麼？”
03:33
Well, in Latin America, they'd say to me,
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好吧，在拉丁美洲，他們會跟我說，
03:36
"You can't really cut off the supply.
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"你真的沒法切斷供應。
03:39
The answer lies back in the U.S.,
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答案在於美國,
03:40
in cutting off the demand."
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在於切斷需求。"
03:42
So then I go back home and I talk to people
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於是我回到家鄉，我問在那裡
03:45
involved in anti-drug efforts there, and they'd say,
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參與禁毒工作的人，他們卻說，
03:47
"You know, Ethan, you can't
really cut off the demand.
really cut off the demand.
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"你知道嗎，伊森，您真的無法切斷需求。
03:50
The answer lies over there.
You've got to cut off the supply."
You've got to cut off the supply."
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答案在那邊。你一定要切斷供應。"
03:53
Then I'd go and talk
to the guys in customs
to the guys in customs
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然後,我去跟海關那邊的傢伙聊,
03:56
trying to stop drugs at the borders,
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試圖在邊境阻止毒品進入。
03:58
and they'd say, "You're
not going to stop it here.
not going to stop it here.
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他們說，“你不可能在這裡把它停止堵住的。
04:02
The answer lies over there,
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答案在於在那邊，
04:03
in cutting off supply and demand."
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在於切斷供給和需求。
04:06
And it hit me:
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在那一刻，我終於明白了。
04:08
Everybody involved in this
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每個參與的人
04:10
thought the answer lay in that area
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都認為答案在另一個領域,
04:13
about which they knew the least.
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一個他們了解得最少的領域。
04:16
So that's when I started
reading everything I could
reading everything I could
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於是我開始閱讀一切關於
04:18
about psychoactive drugs:
the history, the science,
the history, the science,
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精神藥品的資料: 它的歷史、科學、
04:21
the politics, all of it,
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政治，所有的一切。
04:23
and the more one read,
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而讀得越多，
04:26
the more it hit you how a thoughtful,
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你就會越明白到，一個周到、
04:28
enlightened, intelligent
approach took you over here,
approach took you over here,
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開明、聰明的方法會把你帶到這裡，
04:32
whereas the politics and laws of my country
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而我國的政治和法律
04:34
were taking you over here.
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則會帶你到這裡。
這個差異讓我很吃驚，
這實在是個令人難以置信的
這實在是個令人難以置信的
04:36
And that disparity struck me as this incredible
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04:40
intellectual and moral puzzle.
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智力和道德難題。
04:46
There's probably never been
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可能從來就沒有過
04:48
a drug-free society.
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一個沒有毒品的社會。
04:51
Virtually every society
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幾乎每一個社會
04:52
has ingested psychoactive substances
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都有在用精神藥物，
04:55
to deal with pain, increase
our energy, socialize,
our energy, socialize,
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有的用來對付疼痛，增加精力，社交應酬,
04:58
even commune with God.
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有的甚至是用來與神溝通。
05:01
Our desire to alter our consciousness
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我們追求改變自我意識的慾望,
05:03
may be as fundamental as our desires
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可能是就追求温飽、
05:06
for food, companionship and sex.
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陪伴和性一樣基本。
05:10
So our true challenge
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因此，我們真正的挑戰
05:12
is to learn how to live with drugs
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是學習如何和藥物共存,
05:15
so they cause the least possible harm
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使它引起盡可能少的危害,
05:17
and in some cases the
greatest possible benefit.
greatest possible benefit.
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並且在某些情況下帶來最大的益處。
05:22
I'll tell you something else I learned,
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讓我告訴你們我所學到的另一件事，
05:24
that the reason some drugs
are legal and others not
are legal and others not
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之所以有些藥物是合法，有些則不是的原因,
05:27
has almost nothing to do
with science or health
with science or health
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跟科學、健康或藥物的相對風險
05:30
or the relative risk of drugs,
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幾乎沒有任何關係;
05:31
and almost everything to do with who uses
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而是跟誰在使用,
05:34
and who is perceived
to use particular drugs.
to use particular drugs.
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或是誰被認為在使用某種藥物有關。
05:37
In the late 19th century,
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在19世紀後期，
05:39
when most of the drugs that
are now illegal were legal,
are now illegal were legal,
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當大多數現在是非法藥物還是合法的時候，
05:42
the principal consumers
of opiates in my country
of opiates in my country
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在我國和其他國家的鴉片的主要消費者
05:45
and others were middle-aged white women,
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是中年的白人婦女,
05:49
using them to alleviate aches and pains
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她們用鴉片來緩解疼痛,
05:51
when few other analgesics were available.
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當時很少有其他的止痛藥可用。
05:54
And nobody thought about
criminalizing it back then
criminalizing it back then
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當時沒有人想過把它定為刑事犯罪,
05:56
because nobody wanted to
put Grandma behind bars.
put Grandma behind bars.
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因為沒有人希望把奶奶關在監牢裡。
05:59
But when hundreds of thousands of Chinese
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但是，當成千上萬的中國人
06:02
started showing up in my country,
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開始出現在我的國家,
06:03
working hard on the railroads and the mines
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在鐵路和礦山上打拼,
06:06
and then kicking back in the evening
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然後晚上放鬆一下，
06:08
just like they had in the old country
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就像他們在故鄉時那樣
06:09
with a few puffs on that opium pipe,
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吸上幾口大煙的時候,
06:12
that's when you saw the
first drug prohibition laws
first drug prohibition laws
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你看到在加利福尼亞州和內華達州的
06:14
in California and Nevada,
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第一條禁毒法出現了。
06:16
driven by racist fears of Chinese
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因為那些有種族歧視的人擔心
06:18
transforming white women
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中國人會把白人婦女變成
06:20
into opium-addicted sex slaves.
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鴉片成癮的性奴隸。
06:23
The first cocaine prohibition
laws, similarly prompted
laws, similarly prompted
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而第一條禁止可卡因的法律,
也是由那些有種族歧視
也是由那些有種族歧視
06:26
by racist fears of black men
sniffing that white powder
sniffing that white powder
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的人所提倡的,
他們怕黑人嗅了那白色粉末以後,
他們怕黑人嗅了那白色粉末以後,
06:30
and forgetting their proper place
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會忘記自己在南方社會的
06:32
in Southern society.
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適當位置。
06:34
And the first marijuana prohibition laws,
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還有第一條禁止大麻的法律,
06:35
all about fears of Mexican migrants
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同樣是和在西部和西南地區
06:38
in the West and the Southwest.
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對墨西哥移民的恐懼有關。
06:41
And what was true in my country,
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而這些在我的國家的真相,
06:44
is true in so many others as well,
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在別的地方也如是,
06:47
with both the origins of these laws
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那些法律的起源和
06:49
and their implementation.
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執行都是這樣的。
06:52
Put it this way,
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這樣說好了,
06:54
and I exaggerate only slightly:
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我就誇張一點說,
06:57
If the principal smokers of cocaine
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如果可卡因的主要吸食者,
07:00
were affluent older white men
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都是一些有錢的白人老頭,
07:02
and the principal consumers of Viagra
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而偉哥的主要消費者,
07:05
were poor young black men,
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都是貧窮的年輕黑人男子,
07:07
then smokable cocaine would be easy to
get with a prescription from your doctor
get with a prescription from your doctor
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那麼, 拿到煙用可卡因將會比
得到你醫生的處方更容易
得到你醫生的處方更容易
07:10
and selling Viagra would get you
five to 10 years behind bars.
five to 10 years behind bars.
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而出售偉哥將會讓你坐5到10年的牢。
07:13
(Applause)
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（掌聲）
07:17
I used to be a professor teaching about this.
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我曾經是一個教這方面的教授。
07:21
Now I'm an activist, a human rights activist,
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現在，我是一個積極分子，
一名人權運動積極分子，
一名人權運動積極分子，
07:24
and what drives me is my shame
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而背後驅使我的動力是慚愧,
07:27
at living in an otherwise great nation
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我生活在一個原本很偉大的國家,
我國家的人口占不到世界人口的5%,
07:29
that has less than five percent
of the world's population
of the world's population
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07:32
but almost 25 percent of the
world's incarcerated population.
world's incarcerated population.
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被關押的人口卻幾乎是
全球被監禁人口的25%。
全球被監禁人口的25%。
07:36
It's the people I meet
who have lost someone
who have lost someone
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我所遇到的人, 曾因為
07:38
they love to drug-related
violence or prison
violence or prison
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與毒品有關的暴力事件、
監禁、吸食過量或愛滋病
監禁、吸食過量或愛滋病
07:40
or overdose or AIDS
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而失去了他們的所愛,
07:42
because our drug policies emphasize
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這都歸咎於我們那重視刑責
07:44
criminalization over health.
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多於健康的藥物政策。
07:46
It's good people who have lost their jobs,
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他們是好人, 他們失去工作、
07:49
their homes, their freedom,
even their children
even their children
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房子、自由，甚至於孩子的原因，
07:53
to the state, not because they hurt anyone
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不是因為他們傷害了誰,
07:56
but solely because they chose to use one drug
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而僅僅是因為他們選擇了某一種藥物,
08:00
instead of another.
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而不是另一種。
08:03
So is legalization the answer?
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所以合法化是我們要找的答案嗎？
08:07
On that, I'm torn:
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關於這一點, 我實在左右為難;
08:09
three days a week I think yes,
three days a week I think no,
three days a week I think no,
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一個星期中有三天我認為是這樣的，
有三天我又認為不是，
有三天我又認為不是，
08:12
and on Sundays I'm agnostic.
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然後在週日我是個不可知論者。
08:14
But since today is Tuesday,
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由於今天是星期二，
08:17
let me just say that legally
regulating and taxing
regulating and taxing
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就讓我說:合法地管制和徵稅
08:22
most of the drugs that
are now criminalized
are now criminalized
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大多數現在被列為非法的藥物
08:24
would radically reduce
the crime, violence,
the crime, violence,
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會大大減少犯罪、暴力、
08:26
corruption and black markets,
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貪污、黑市、
08:28
and the problems of adulterated
and unregulated drugs,
and unregulated drugs,
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以及摻假和不受管制藥物的問題，
08:31
and improve public safety,
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並提高公眾的安全，
08:33
and allow taxpayer resources to be developed
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允許納稅人的資源
08:35
to more useful purposes.
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用來開發更有用的目的。
08:37
I mean, look, the markets
in marijuana, cocaine,
in marijuana, cocaine,
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我的意思是，你看，大麻、可卡因、
08:41
heroin and methamphetamine
194
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2013
海洛因和甲基苯丙胺的市場，
08:43
are global commodities markets
195
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是全球性的商品市場，
08:46
just like the global markets
in alcohol, tobacco,
in alcohol, tobacco,
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就像跟全球的酒精、煙草、
08:49
coffee, sugar, and so many other things.
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咖啡、糖和許多其他的市場一樣。
08:52
Where there is a demand,
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2396
哪裡有需求，
08:54
there will be a supply.
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哪裡就有供應。
08:57
Knock out one source and another
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趕絕了一個源頭, 另一個源頭
08:59
inevitably emerges.
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還是會不可避免地出現。
09:01
People tend to think of prohibition
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人們往往認為，禁止
09:03
as the ultimate form of regulation
203
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2498
是最終極的規管方法，
09:06
when in fact it represents
the abdication of regulation
the abdication of regulation
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4019
而事實上，它代表的是規管退位，
09:10
with criminals filling the void.
205
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4017
並由罪犯去填補這個空缺。
09:14
Which is why putting criminal laws and police
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這就是為什麼把刑法和警察
09:16
front and center in trying to control
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放在前線和中心來試圖控制
09:19
a dynamic global commodities market
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3104
一個瞬息萬變的全球性商品市場
09:22
is a recipe for disaster.
209
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2869
是一個災難。
09:25
And what we really need to do
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2171
而我們真正需要做的
09:27
is to bring the underground drug markets
211
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2374
是把地下的毒品交易市場
09:30
as much as possible aboveground
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盡可能帶上地面,
09:33
and regulate them as
intelligently as we can
intelligently as we can
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盡我們所能明智地規範它，
09:37
to minimize both the harms of drugs
214
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以減少藥物以及
09:39
and the harms of prohibitionist policies.
215
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3488
禁制政策帶來的危害。
09:43
Now, with marijuana, that obviously means
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3565
現在，大麻顯然意味著
09:46
legally regulating and
taxing it like alcohol.
taxing it like alcohol.
217
574727
2666
像酒精般依法規範和徵稅。
09:49
The benefits of doing so are
enormous, the risks minimal.
enormous, the risks minimal.
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3330
這樣做的好處很大，風險極小。
09:52
Will more people use marijuana?
219
580723
2711
會有更多的人使用大麻嗎？
09:55
Maybe, but it's not
going to be young people,
going to be young people,
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583434
3971
也許吧，但不會是年輕人，
09:59
because it's not going to
be legalized for them,
be legalized for them,
221
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2002
因為對他們來說大麻不會被合法化，
10:01
and quite frankly, they already have
222
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1811
而且坦白的說，他們已經有
10:03
the best access to marijuana.
223
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2036
拿到大麻的最佳途徑了。
10:05
I think it's going to be older people.
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我認為這將會是上了年紀的人。
10:07
It's going to be people in their 40s and 60s
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2159
會是40多歲、60多歲
10:09
and 80s who find they prefer a little marijuana
226
597562
3646
和80多歲的人發現自己寧願吸點大麻
10:13
to that drink in the evening or the sleeping pill
227
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3290
來代替在晚上喝一杯或吃安眠藥,
10:16
or that it helps with
their arthritis or diabetes
their arthritis or diabetes
228
604498
3640
或者是用它來舒緩他們的關節炎或糖尿病,
10:20
or maybe helps spice up a
long-term marriage. (Laughter)
long-term marriage. (Laughter)
229
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5192
又或者用來為老夫老妻的
婚姻生活增添點情趣。 （笑聲）
婚姻生活增添點情趣。 （笑聲）
10:25
And that just might be a
net public health benefit.
net public health benefit.
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3154
這對公眾健康也將會有莫大的益處。
10:28
As for the other drugs,
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2362
至於其他藥物,
10:31
look at Portugal, where
nobody goes to jail
nobody goes to jail
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2621
看葡萄牙，在那裡，沒有人會因為
10:33
for possessing drugs,
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1763
藏有毒品被抓去坐牢，
10:35
and the government's made
a serious commitment
a serious commitment
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1370
政府作出了鄭重承諾，
10:36
to treating addiction as a health issue.
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2210
會把上癮是看作一個健康問題來治療。
10:39
Look at Switzerland,
Germany, the Netherlands,
Germany, the Netherlands,
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1901
再看看瑞士、德國、荷蘭、
10:40
Denmark, England, where people who have
237
628711
1946
丹麥和英國，在這些地方，
10:42
been addicted to heroin for many years
238
630657
1901
那些對海洛因上癮多年,
10:44
and repeatedly tried to quit and failed
239
632558
2306
多次試圖戒毒但失敗的人,
10:47
can get pharmaceutical
heroin and helping services
heroin and helping services
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634864
2858
可以在醫療診所獲得藥用海洛因和緩助,
10:49
in medical clinics, and
the results are in:
the results are in:
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3441
而成果是：
10:53
Illegal drug abuse and disease
242
641163
3064
非法濫用藥物、疾病、
10:56
and overdoses and crime
and arrests all go down,
and arrests all go down,
243
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4147
藥物過量、犯罪和拘捕統統下降,
11:00
health and well-being improve,
244
648374
2149
健康和福祉有所提高,
11:02
taxpayers benefit,
245
650523
1732
納稅人受益，
11:04
and many drug users even
put their addictions behind them.
put their addictions behind them.
246
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4150
許多吸毒者甚至放下了毒癮。
11:08
Look at New Zealand, which
recently enacted a law
recently enacted a law
247
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2802
新西蘭最近頒布了一項法律,
11:11
allowing certain recreational
drugs to be sold legally
drugs to be sold legally
248
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2935
允許某些軟性毒品被合法銷售,
11:14
provided their safety had been established.
249
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2701
前提是已確認其安全性。
11:17
Look here in Brazil, and some other countries,
250
664843
2699
看看巴西這裡和一些其他國家，
11:19
where a remarkable psychoactive substance,
251
667542
3063
"死藤水"這個值得注意的精神藥物，
11:22
ayahuasca, can be legally
bought and consumed
bought and consumed
252
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3225
可以合法購買和服用。
11:26
provided it's done so
within a religious context.
within a religious context.
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3128
只要是在宗教背景下使用。
11:29
Look in Bolivia and Peru,
254
676958
2002
再看在玻利維亞和秘魯，
11:31
where all sorts of products
made from the coca leaf,
made from the coca leaf,
255
678960
2789
各種由古柯葉製成產品,
11:33
the source of cocaine,
256
681749
1901
可卡因的來源，
11:35
are sold legally over the counter
257
683650
1620
都可在無需處方的商店合法銷售,
11:37
with no apparent harm to people's public health.
258
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3133
而這樣做並沒有對人民的
公眾健康帶來明顯的危害。
公眾健康帶來明顯的危害。
11:40
I mean, don't forget, Coca-Cola
had cocaine in it until 1900,
had cocaine in it until 1900,
259
688403
4036
我的意思是，不要忘記，
可口可樂直到1900年都還含有可卡因，
可口可樂直到1900年都還含有可卡因，
11:44
and so far as we know was no more addictive
260
692439
1968
但到目前為止，沒有人覺得它比今時今日的
11:46
than Coca-Cola is today.
261
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4053
可口可樂更容易令人上癮。
11:50
Conversely, think about cigarettes:
262
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3077
相反地，想想香煙：
11:53
Nothing can both hook you
and kill you like cigarettes.
and kill you like cigarettes.
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4986
沒有東西比香煙更能令你上癮
和將你置諸死地的了。
和將你置諸死地的了。
11:58
When researchers ask heroin addicts
264
706523
3064
當研究人員問海洛因成癮者
12:01
what's the toughest drug to
quit, most say cigarettes.
quit, most say cigarettes.
265
709587
3206
什麼是最難戒掉的藥物時，
大多數人說是香煙。
大多數人說是香煙。
12:04
Yet in my country and many others,
266
712793
2374
然而，在我的國家和許多其他國家,
12:07
half of all the people who
were ever addicted
were ever addicted
267
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2542
半數曾對香煙上癮
12:09
to cigarettes have quit
268
717709
1935
後來成功戒菸的人，
12:11
without anyone being
arrested or put in jail
arrested or put in jail
269
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3008
都沒有被逮捕或入獄，
12:14
or sent to a "treatment program"
270
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2256
或被檢察官或法官
12:17
by a prosecutor or a judge.
271
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1733
送到“治療計劃”中。
12:18
What did it were higher taxes
272
726641
3296
使戒菸成功的原因是高稅收,
12:22
and time and place
restrictions on sale and use
restrictions on sale and use
273
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3543
還有對銷售和使用的時間地點作出限制,
12:25
and effective anti-smoking campaigns.
274
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3072
以及有效的反吸煙運動。
12:28
Now, could we reduce smoking even more
275
736552
3940
現在，我們可以通過把吸煙列為非法
12:32
by making it totally illegal? Probably.
276
740492
4339
來進一步減少吸煙嗎? 或許吧。
12:37
But just imagine the drug war nightmare
277
744831
3611
但試想將會導致的
12:40
that would result.
278
748442
3038
禁毒戰爭噩夢。
12:43
So the challenges we face today
279
751480
2283
因此，我們今天面臨的挑戰
12:45
are twofold.
280
753763
1867
是有兩方面的。
12:47
The first is the policy challenge
281
755630
3015
首先是政策上的挑戰,
12:50
of designing and implementing alternatives
282
758645
3678
我們要制定和實施有效的替代方案
12:54
to ineffective prohibitionist policies,
283
762323
2418
來取代禁止政策,
12:56
even as we need to get
better at regulating
better at regulating
284
764741
3420
我們還要對這些現在合法的藥物
13:00
and living with the drugs
that are now legal.
that are now legal.
285
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3669
作出更好的規範以及學會和它們共存。
13:04
But the second challenge is tougher,
286
771830
3361
第二個挑戰更是艱難，
13:07
because it's about us.
287
775191
3611
因為它是關於我們的。
13:11
The obstacles to reform
lie not just out there
lie not just out there
288
778802
3488
改革的障礙不只在於
13:14
in the power of the
prison industrial complex
prison industrial complex
289
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2160
監獄的工業的力量,
13:16
or other vested interests
that want to keep things
that want to keep things
290
784450
2204
或其他想保住自己既得利益的人希望
13:18
the way they are,
291
786654
1426
一切保留本來的樣子,
13:20
but within each and every one of us.
292
788080
3840
而是在於我們每一個人。
13:24
It's our fears and our lack of knowledge
293
791920
4050
我們的恐懼、缺乏了解、
13:28
and imagination that stands
in the way of real reform.
in the way of real reform.
294
795970
6700
還有我們的想像力
才是真正改革之路上的障礙。
才是真正改革之路上的障礙。
13:34
And ultimately, I think that
boils down to the kids,
boils down to the kids,
295
802670
4570
我認為這歸根究底都是因為孩子,
13:39
and to every parent's desire
to put our baby in a bubble,
to put our baby in a bubble,
296
807240
3745
因為每一位家長都希望把我們的寶貝
放在一個泡泡裏受保護，
放在一個泡泡裏受保護，
13:43
and the fear that somehow
drugs will pierce that bubble
drugs will pierce that bubble
297
810985
3330
我們對毒品有種莫明的恐懼,
害怕它會刺破這個泡泡,
害怕它會刺破這個泡泡,
13:46
and put our young ones at risk.
298
814315
1929
把我們的年輕的一輩置身在危險之中。
13:48
In fact, sometimes it
seems like the entire
seems like the entire
299
816244
2070
其實，有時候看來
13:50
War on Drugs gets justified
300
818314
1976
整個反毒戰爭好像很合理,
13:52
as one great big child protection act,
301
820290
3926
因為它是個偉大的兒童保護法案,
13:56
which any young person
can tell you it's not.
can tell you it's not.
302
824216
3607
但任何年輕的人都可以告訴你，
事實並非如此。
事實並非如此。
14:00
So here's what I say to teenagers.
303
827823
4106
因此，這是我對青少年說的。
14:04
First, don't do drugs.
304
831929
3686
第一，不要吸毒。
14:07
Second, don't do drugs.
305
835615
3790
第二，不要吸毒。
14:11
Third, if you do do drugs,
306
839405
3420
第三，如果你要吸毒，
14:15
there's some things I want you to know,
307
842825
2542
有一些事情，我想讓你知道，
14:17
because my bottom line as your parent is,
308
845367
4043
因為，我作為你父母的底線是，
14:21
come home safely at the end of the night
309
849410
2981
晚上平平安安回到家，
14:24
and grow up and lead a
healthy and good adulthood.
healthy and good adulthood.
310
852391
3533
好好長大，過一個健康、美好的成年。
14:28
That's my drug education
mantra: Safety first.
mantra: Safety first.
311
855924
5613
這是我對藥物教育的口頭禪：安全第一。
14:33
So this is what I've dedicated my life to,
312
861537
3656
所以，這就是我一生致力做的事:
14:37
to building an organization and a movement
313
865193
2508
建立一個組織和推動一個運動,
14:39
of people who believe we
need to turn our backs
need to turn our backs
314
867701
2860
我們相信要放下
14:42
on the failed prohibitions of the past
315
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過去失敗的禁令，
14:44
and embrace new drug
policies grounded in science,
policies grounded in science,
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接受以科學、愛心、健康
14:47
compassion, health and human rights,
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和人權為本的新藥物政策,
14:50
where people who come from
across the political spectrum
across the political spectrum
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我們的人來自不同政治派別
14:53
and every other spectrum as well,
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和擁有各種不同的背景,
14:55
where people who love our drugs,
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有喜歡毒品的人，
14:56
people who hate drugs,
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痛恨毒品的人，
14:58
and people who don't give
a damn about drugs,
a damn about drugs,
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還有也不在乎毒品問題的人,
15:00
but every one of us believes
that this War on Drugs,
that this War on Drugs,
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但我們每個人都認為，這個落後的、
15:03
this backward, heartless,
disastrous War on Drugs,
disastrous War on Drugs,
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無情的、災難性的禁毒戰爭
15:08
has got to end.
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必須結束。
15:11
Thank you.
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謝謝!
15:13
(Applause)
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（掌聲）
15:27
Thank you. Thank you.
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謝謝。謝謝。
15:29
Chris Anderson: Ethan,
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克里斯·安德森：伊森，
15:32
congrats — quite the reaction.
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恭喜 - 反應相當的熱烈。
15:35
That was a powerful talk.
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真是一個震撼的演講,
15:38
Not quite a complete standing O, though,
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快要都起立鼓掌了,
15:41
and I'm guessing that some people here
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我猜在座的觀眾中
15:43
and maybe a few watching online,
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還有可能在線觀看的人裏，
15:45
maybe someone knows a teenager or a friend
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會有人認識身邊的青少年或朋友
15:49
or whatever who got sick,
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或其他人因為毒品而生病
15:51
maybe died from some drug overdose.
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甚至於因為濫藥而去世的。
15:54
I'm sure you've had these
people approach you before.
people approach you before.
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我敢肯定，之前有這些人找過你。
15:56
What do you say to them?
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你怎樣對他們說呢？
15:58
Ethan Nadelmann: Chris, the most
amazing thing that's happened of late
amazing thing that's happened of late
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伊森. Nadelmann：克里斯，
最近所發生最讓人驚喜的事
最近所發生最讓人驚喜的事
16:00
is that I've met a growing number of people
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就是我碰到越來越多的的人,
16:03
who have actually
lost a sibling or a child
lost a sibling or a child
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那些有兄弟姐妹或子女
16:05
to a drug overdose,
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因為濫藥而死的人,
16:07
and 10 years ago, those
people just wanted to say,
people just wanted to say,
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在10年前的話，那些人會告訴你，
16:09
let's line up all the drug
dealers and shoot them
dealers and shoot them
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把毒販們排成一排拉去槍斃,
16:11
and that will solve it.
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這就是解決問題的辦法。
16:12
And what they've come to understand
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而他們漸漸明白的是
16:13
is that the Drug War did
nothing to protect their kids.
nothing to protect their kids.
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禁毒戰爭並沒有保護到他們的孩子。
16:16
If anything, it made it more likely
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如果有做什麼的話，它所做的是使
16:18
that those kids were put at risk.
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這些孩子們更容易處於危險之中。
16:20
And so they're now becoming part of this
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因此，他們現在成為了這個
16:22
drug policy reform movement.
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藥物政策改革運動的一份子。
16:23
There's other people who have kids,
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有一些其他的家長,
16:25
one's addicted to alcohol, the other
one's addicted to cocaine or heroin,
one's addicted to cocaine or heroin,
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一個孩子嗜酒, 另一個可卡因或海洛因上癮，
16:29
and they ask themselves the question:
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他們問自己這樣一個問題：
16:30
Why does this kid get to
take one step at a time
take one step at a time
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為什麼一個孩子可以一步一步
16:32
and try to get better
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努力變得更好,
16:34
and that one's got to deal with jail
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而另一個則總要去面對入獄、
16:35
and police and criminals all the time?
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警察和罪犯呢?
16:37
So everybody's understanding,
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因此大家理解了，
16:39
the Drug War's not protecting anybody.
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禁毒戰爭其實沒有在保護任何人。
16:41
CA: Certainly in the U.S.,
you've got political gridlock
you've got political gridlock
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CA：無疑在美國，在大多數問題上
16:43
on most issues.
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都有著政治僵局。
16:45
Is there any realistic chance of anything
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這議題在未來五年內有所進展
16:47
actually shifting on this
issue in the next five years?
issue in the next five years?
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的實際機會大嗎?
16:50
EN: I'd say it's quite remarkable.
I'm getting all these calls
I'm getting all these calls
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EN:我會說這是十分顯著的。我總會接一些電話，
16:52
from journalists now who are saying to me,
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記者會跟我說：
16:54
"Ethan, it seems like the only two issues
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"伊森, 似乎在美國政治上
16:56
advancing politically in America right now
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唯一在前進的兩個議題
16:58
are marijuana law reform and gay marriage.
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就是大麻政策改革和同性戀婚姻了。
17:01
What are you doing right?"
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你在做什麼嗎？"
然後你看到兩黨打破隔閡合作,
17:03
And then you're looking at
bipartisanship breaking out
bipartisanship breaking out
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17:05
with, actually, Republicans in the Congress
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事實上，是共和黨在國會
17:07
and state legislatures
allowing bills to be enacted
allowing bills to be enacted
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和各州議會讓法案頒布,
17:11
with majority Democratic support,
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然後大多數民主黨都支持，
17:13
so we've gone from being sort of the third rail,
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毒品這個議題, 由一個不能踩的雷區,
17:15
the most fearful issue of American politics,
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美國政治中最可怕的問題，
17:17
to becoming one of the most successful.
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變為了最成功的一項。
17:20
CA: Ethan, thank you so much for coming to TEDGlobal.
EN: Chris, thanks so much.
EN: Chris, thanks so much.
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CA：伊森，非常感謝你前來TEDGlobal。
EN：克里斯，非常感謝。
EN：克里斯，非常感謝。
17:22
CA: Thank you.
EN: Thank you. (Applause)
EN: Thank you. (Applause)
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ABOUT THE SPEAKER
Ethan Nadelmann - Drug policy reformerEthan Nadelmann has ushered the once-marginal issue of drug legalization onto the center stage of US political debate.
Why you should listen
Once derided as the province of spaced-out collegiate activists, the fight to reform marijuana and other drug laws is becoming increasingly mainstream in the US -- thanks in large part to the Drug Policy Alliance and its founder, Ethan Nadelmann.
Nadelmann believes that America (and the world) is losing the war on drugs, with disastrous implications for marginalized communities, exploding prison populations, and law enforcement in general. His arguments have converted politicians and policy-makers on both sides of the aisle. And the debate is shifting, with US states such as Colorado legalizing marjuana for recreational use, and countries such as Uruguay taking similar steps.
More profile about the speakerNadelmann believes that America (and the world) is losing the war on drugs, with disastrous implications for marginalized communities, exploding prison populations, and law enforcement in general. His arguments have converted politicians and policy-makers on both sides of the aisle. And the debate is shifting, with US states such as Colorado legalizing marjuana for recreational use, and countries such as Uruguay taking similar steps.
Ethan Nadelmann | Speaker | TED.com