TED2015
Roman Mars: Why city flags may be the worst-designed thing you've never noticed
羅曼·馬斯: 為什麼市旗可以是你從未注意過的最壞設計
Filmed:
Readability: 4.1
6,226,252 views
羅曼·馬斯對旗幟非常著迷——在你看完這一演講之後，你可能也會對此著迷。這些無處不在的市民驕傲象徵通常都設計得，呃，很糟糕。但是它們不必如此。在這場令人驚訝、別開生面的關於旗幟學的演講中，馬斯揭露旗幟設計的五個基本原則，並告訴我們為什麼他相信這些原則可以適用於所有其他事物。
Roman Mars - Digital storyteller
With his show 99% Invisible, Roman Mars discovered new ways to jolt public radio out of its old paradigms, while at the same time spinning riveting tales of design. Full bio
With his show 99% Invisible, Roman Mars discovered new ways to jolt public radio out of its old paradigms, while at the same time spinning riveting tales of design. Full bio
Double-click the English transcript below to play the video.
00:12
I know what you're thinking:
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我知道你們在想什麼：
00:14
"Why does that guy get to sit down?"
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「為什麼這傢伙坐着？」
00:17
That's because this is radio.
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因為這是在廣播。
00:20
(Music)
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（音樂）
00:24
I tell radio stories about design,
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我廣播有關設計的故事，
00:27
and I report on all kinds of stories:
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我講述各種各樣的故事：
00:29
buildings and toothbrushes
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建築和牙刷
00:31
and mascots and wayfinding and fonts.
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吉祥物、路標還有字體。
00:33
My mission is to get people to engage
with the design that they care about
with the design that they care about
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我的任務是讓人們關注
他們在乎的設計，
他們在乎的設計，
00:37
so they begin to pay attention
to all forms of design.
to all forms of design.
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讓人們開始注意各種形式的設計。
00:40
When you decode the world
with design intent in mind,
with design intent in mind,
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當你用設計的眼光看世界時，
00:45
the world becomes kind of magical.
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世界開始變得神奇。
00:47
Instead of seeing the broken things,
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看見的不再是支零破碎的物體，
00:49
you see all the little bits of genius
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而是點點滴滴的智慧
00:52
that anonymous designers have sweated over
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由無名的設計家辛苦構建
00:55
to make our lives better.
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目的是讓我們生活更加美好。
00:57
And that's essentially
the definition of design:
the definition of design:
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而這就是設計的精華定義：
00:59
making life better and providing joy.
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讓生活更美好、為生活提供歡樂。
01:02
And few things give me greater joy
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精心設計的旗幟
01:05
than a well-designed flag.
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是最能給我帶來歡樂的事物之一。
01:07
(Laughter) (Applause)
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（掌聲）（笑聲）
01:09
Yeah!
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沒錯！
01:13
Happy 50th anniversary
on your flag, Canada.
on your flag, Canada.
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50歲生日快樂，加拿大國旗。
01:15
It is beautiful, gold standard. Love it.
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非常漂亮，黃金標準。人見人愛。
01:19
I'm kind of obsessed with flags.
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我對旗幟非常著迷。
01:21
Sometimes I bring up the topic of flags,
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有時我跟別人聊旗幟，
01:23
and people are like,
"I don't care about flags,"
"I don't care about flags,"
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對方就會說：「我不在乎旗幟。」
01:27
and then we start talking
about flags, and trust me,
about flags, and trust me,
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然後我們開始聊旗幟，信不信由你，
01:31
100 percent of people care about flags.
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所有人都在乎旗幟。
01:33
There's just something about them
that works on our emotions.
that works on our emotions.
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旗幟裡面有一種奇妙的東西
左右著我們的情感。
左右著我們的情感。
01:37
My family wrapped my Christmas presents
as flags this year,
as flags this year,
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今年我的家人用國旗
包裝我的聖誕禮物，
包裝我的聖誕禮物，
01:40
including the blue gift bag
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也包括右上方那個藍色禮物袋
01:44
that's dressed up as the flag of Scotland.
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設計用的是蘇格蘭旗。
01:47
I put this picture online,
and sure enough,
and sure enough,
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我將這照片擺上網，當然，
01:50
within the first few minutes,
someone left a comment that said,
someone left a comment that said,
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幾分鐘內就有人留言說：
01:53
"You can take that Scottish Saltire
and shove it up your ass." (Laughter)
and shove it up your ass." (Laughter)
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「收起蘇格蘭的聖安德魯十字旗，
塞到你屁股裡。」（笑聲）
塞到你屁股裡。」（笑聲）
01:56
Which -- see, people are passionate
about flags, you know?
about flags, you know?
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看吧，人們相當熱衷於旗幟。
02:00
That's the way it is.
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這就是旗幟的力量。
02:02
What I love about flags
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我之所以喜歡旗幟，
02:03
is that once you understand
the design of flags,
the design of flags,
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是因為一旦你理解了旗幟的設計
02:06
what makes a good flag,
what makes a bad flag,
what makes a bad flag,
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理解怎樣才算好的旗幟，
怎樣才算壞的旗幟，
怎樣才算壞的旗幟，
02:08
you can understand
the design of almost anything.
the design of almost anything.
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你就可以理解
幾乎所有事物的設計。
幾乎所有事物的設計。
02:11
So what I'm going to do here is,
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所以我現在要做的是
02:13
I cracked open an episode
of my radio show,
of my radio show,
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我開始我的設計廣播節目
「99% Invisible」
「99% Invisible」
02:16
"99% Invisible," and I'm going
to reconstruct it here on stage,
to reconstruct it here on stage,
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我將會在台上呈現這個節目
02:19
so when I press a button over here --
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所以當我在這點擊按鈕時——
02:21
Voice: S for Sound --
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聲音：S代表聲音——
02:23
Roman Mars: It's going to make a sound,
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羅曼·馬斯：就會發出聲音，
02:25
and so whenever you hear a sound
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所以大家要是聽到聲音
02:27
or a voice or a piece of music,
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或者音樂，
02:28
it's because I pressed a button.
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那是因為我按了按鈕。
02:30
Voice: Sssssound.
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聲音：嘶——聲音。
02:32
RM: All right, got it? Here we go.
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馬斯：好了？我們開始吧。
02:36
Three, two.
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三，二。
02:39
This is 99% Invisible. I'm Roman Mars.
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歡迎收聽「99% Invisible」
我是羅曼·馬斯
我是羅曼·馬斯
02:48
Narrator: The five basic
principles of flag design.
principles of flag design.
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陳述者：設計旗幟的五個基本原則。
02:51
Roman Mars: According to the North
American Vexillological Association.
American Vexillological Association.
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馬斯：根據北美旗幟學協會
02:55
Vexillological.
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旗幟學
02:56
Ted Kaye: Vexillology
is the study of flags.
is the study of flags.
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泰德·凱伊（旗幟學家）：
旗幟學指對旗幟的研究。
旗幟學指對旗幟的研究。
02:59
RM: It's that extra "lol"
that makes it sound weird.
that makes it sound weird.
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馬斯：聽上去有點怪異，
是因為裡面的笑意。
是因為裡面的笑意。
03:02
Narrator: Number one,
keep it simple.
keep it simple.
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陳述者：第一，設計要簡單。
03:04
The flag should be so simple
that a child can draw it from memory.
that a child can draw it from memory.
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旗幟應該設計簡單，
連小孩子也能記住畫出來。
連小孩子也能記住畫出來。
03:07
RM: Before I moved to Chicago in 2005,
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馬斯：2005年搬到芝加哥之前
03:09
I didn't even know cities
had their own flags.
had their own flags.
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我並不知道城市也有自己的旗幟。
03:11
TK: Most larger cities
do have flags.
do have flags.
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凱伊：大部分的大型城市
的確有自己的旗幟。
的確有自己的旗幟。
03:13
RM: Well, I didn't know that.
That's Ted Kaye, by the way.
That's Ted Kaye, by the way.
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馬斯：我那時並不知道。
噢，這是泰德·凱伊。
噢，這是泰德·凱伊。
03:16
TK: Hello.
RM: He's a flag expert.
RM: He's a flag expert.
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凱伊：大家好。
馬斯：他是旗幟學專家。
馬斯：他是旗幟學專家。
03:18
He's a totally awesome guy.
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他超級棒。
03:19
TK: I'm Ted Kaye. I have edited
a scholarly journal on flag studies,
a scholarly journal on flag studies,
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凱伊：我叫泰德·凱伊。我編輯過
一本旗幟學的學術周刊，
一本旗幟學的學術周刊，
03:23
and I am currently involved
with the Portland Flag Association
with the Portland Flag Association
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目前我在波特蘭旗幟協會
03:26
and the North American
Vexillological Association.
Vexillological Association.
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還有北美旗幟學協會。
03:29
RM: Ted literally wrote
the book on flag design.
the book on flag design.
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馬斯：泰德寫了一本
關於旗幟設計的書。
關於旗幟設計的書。
03:32
Narrator: "Good Flag, Bad Flag."
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陳述者：「好旗，壞旗」
03:34
RM: It's more of a pamphlet, really.
It's about 16 pages.
It's about 16 pages.
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馬斯：這看上去更像小冊子。
大概有16頁。
大概有16頁。
03:37
TK: Yes, it's called
"Good Flag, Bad Flag:
"Good Flag, Bad Flag:
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凱伊：沒錯，書名為
「好旗，壞旗：
如何設計一支出色的旗幟」
如何設計一支出色的旗幟」
03:39
How to Design a Great Flag."
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03:41
RM: And that first city flag
I discovered in Chicago
I discovered in Chicago
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馬斯：我在芝加哥發現的第一支市旗
03:44
is a beaut:
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美麗動人：
03:45
white field, two horizontal blue stripes,
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白色背景，兩條水平藍色條紋，
03:48
and four six-pointed red stars
down the middle.
down the middle.
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還有中間四個六角紅星。
03:52
Narrator: Number two:
use meaningful symbolism.
use meaningful symbolism.
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陳述者：第二，使用有意義的象徵。
03:55
TK: The blue stripes represent
the water, the river and the lake.
the water, the river and the lake.
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凱伊：藍色條紋代表
水、河流、湖泊。
水、河流、湖泊。
03:58
Narrator: The flag's images,
colors or pattern
colors or pattern
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陳述者：旗幟的圖案、顏色、圖形
04:00
should relate to what it symbolizes.
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應該與象徵的事物相關。
04:02
TK: The red stars represent
significant events in Chicago's history.
significant events in Chicago's history.
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凱伊：紅星代表
芝加哥的重要歷史事件。
芝加哥的重要歷史事件。
04:05
RM: Namely, the founding of Fort Dearborn
on the future site of Chicago,
on the future site of Chicago,
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馬斯：指的是未來芝加哥的
迪爾伯恩堡的建立；
迪爾伯恩堡的建立；
04:09
the Great Chicago Fire,
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1871年的芝加哥大火；
04:12
the World Columbian Exposition,
which everyone remembers
which everyone remembers
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芝加哥哥倫布世界紀念博覽館，
04:15
because of the White City,
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由於懷特城，大家都記得這一事件；
04:17
and the Century of Progress Exposition,
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還有芝加哥萬國博覽會，
04:19
which no one remembers at all.
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沒有人記得這一事件。
04:21
Narrator: Number three,
use two to three basic colors.
use two to three basic colors.
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陳述者：第三，
使用兩到三種基本顏色。
使用兩到三種基本顏色。
04:24
TK: The basic rule for colors
is to use two to three colors
is to use two to three colors
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凱伊：顏色的基本原則是
使用標準顏色集裡的
兩到三種基本顏色：
兩到三種基本顏色：
04:27
from the standard color set:
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04:30
red, white, blue,
green, yellow and black.
green, yellow and black.
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紅、白、藍、綠、黃、黑。
04:33
RM: The design of the Chicago flag
has complete buy-in
has complete buy-in
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馬斯：芝加哥市旗的設計
深受大眾喜愛，
深受大眾喜愛，
04:35
with an entire cross-section of the city.
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在城市各個地方都可看見。
04:37
It is everywhere;
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非常普遍；
04:39
every municipal building flies the flag.
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每幢市建築都立著這一支旗。
04:41
Whet Moser: Like, there's probably
at least one store on every block
at least one store on every block
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Whet Moser：我工作附近
每條街上都有至少一家商店
每條街上都有至少一家商店
04:44
near where I work that sells
some sort of Chicago flag paraphernalia.
some sort of Chicago flag paraphernalia.
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會賣帶有芝加哥市旗的用具。
04:48
RM: That's Whet Moser
from Chicago magazine.
from Chicago magazine.
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馬斯：他是芝加哥雜誌的
Whet Moser。
Whet Moser。
04:50
WM: Today, just for example,
I went to get a haircut,
I went to get a haircut,
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Moser：譬如今天我去剪頭髮，
04:53
and when I sat down in the barber's chair,
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我坐在理髮師的椅子上，
04:56
there was a Chicago flag on the box
that the barber kept all his tools in,
that the barber kept all his tools in,
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看見理髮師的工具箱上
就有一支芝加哥市旗，
就有一支芝加哥市旗，
05:00
and then in the mirror there was
a Chicago flag on the wall behind me.
a Chicago flag on the wall behind me.
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然後鏡子裡面在我身後
也有一支芝加哥市旗。
也有一支芝加哥市旗。
05:04
When I left, a guy passed me who had
a Chicago flag badge on his backpack.
a Chicago flag badge on his backpack.
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我離開的時候，經過一個男子
背包上面有一個芝加哥市旗徽章。
背包上面有一個芝加哥市旗徽章。
05:09
RM: It's adaptable and remixable.
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馬斯：旗幟的適應力和混搭力很強。
05:11
The six-pointed stars in particular
show up in all kinds of places.
show up in all kinds of places.
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特別是六角形
在各種地方都能看見。
在各種地方都能看見。
05:14
WM: The coffee I bought the other day
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Moser：有天我買的咖啡上
05:16
had a Chicago star on it.
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就有一顆芝加哥星。
05:18
RM: It's a distinct symbol
of Chicago pride.
of Chicago pride.
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馬斯：這是芝加哥驕傲的獨特標誌。
05:21
TK: When a police officer
or a firefighter dies in Chicago,
or a firefighter dies in Chicago,
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凱伊：芝加哥裡
有警察或消防員身亡時
有警察或消防員身亡時
05:24
often it's not the flag of the
United States on his casket.
United States on his casket.
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靈柩上一般放的不是美國國旗。
05:28
It can be the flag of the city of Chicago.
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放的可以是芝加哥市旗。
05:31
That's how deeply the flag has gotten
into the civic imagery of Chicago.
into the civic imagery of Chicago.
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這就是市旗
對芝加哥市民形象的力量。
對芝加哥市民形象的力量。
05:37
RM: And it isn't just that people
love Chicago and therefore love the flag.
love Chicago and therefore love the flag.
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馬斯：這不只是人們喜歡芝加哥
才喜歡芝加哥的市旗。
才喜歡芝加哥的市旗。
05:41
I also think that people love Chicago more
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我認為因為芝加哥市旗太棒了
05:44
because the flag is so cool.
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所以人們更加喜歡芝加哥。
05:47
TK: A positive feedback loop there
between great symbolism and civic pride.
between great symbolism and civic pride.
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凱伊：偉大象徵和市民驕傲之間
一個相當正面的反饋循環。
一個相當正面的反饋循環。
05:52
RM: Okay. So when I moved back
to San Francisco in 2008,
to San Francisco in 2008,
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馬斯：因此2008年搬回三藩市時，
05:55
I researched its flag,
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我搜索了三藩市的市旗，
05:57
because I had never seen it
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因為我從未見過這支旗，
05:59
in the previous eight years I lived there.
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儘管我在那裡住過八年。
06:01
And I found it, I am sorry to say,
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然後我發現，很抱歉地說，
06:04
sadly lacking.
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這支旗不夠力。
06:07
(Laughter)
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（笑聲）
06:10
I know.
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我知道。
06:12
It hurts me, too.
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這也讓我很傷心。
06:14
(Laughter)
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（笑聲）
06:15
TK: Well, let me start from the top.
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凱伊：讓我從頭說起。
06:17
Narrator: Number one, keep it simple.
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陳述者：第一，設計要簡單。
06:19
TK: Keeping it simple.
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凱伊：設計要簡單。
06:21
Narrator: The flag should be so simple
that a child can draw it from memory.
that a child can draw it from memory.
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陳述者：旗幟設計應盡量簡單，
連小孩子也能記住畫出來。
連小孩子也能記住畫出來。
06:24
TK: It's a relatively complex flag.
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凱伊：這是相對複雜的一支旗。
06:26
RM: Okay, here we go. Okay.
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馬斯：好，我們來。
06:28
The main component
of the San Francisco flag is a phoenix
of the San Francisco flag is a phoenix
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三藩市市旗的主要元素是鳳凰
06:30
representing the city
rising from the ashes
rising from the ashes
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代表經歷了18世紀50年代
的災難性大火後
的災難性大火後
06:33
after the devastating fires of the 1850s.
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三藩市在灰燼中重生。
06:36
TK: A powerful symbol for San Francisco.
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凱伊：三藩市的有力象徵。
06:38
RM: I still don't really dig the phoenix.
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馬斯：我仍然不太喜歡那隻鳳凰。
06:40
Design-wise, it manages
to both be too crude
to both be too crude
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設計方面，旗幟表現得太粗野
06:43
and have too many details
at the same time,
at the same time,
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同時又包涵太多細節，
06:46
which if you were trying for that,
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要是試圖涵蓋太多細節，
06:48
you wouldn't be able to do it,
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你終歸是做不出好旗，
06:50
and it just looks bad at a distance,
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遠看一點都不順眼，
06:51
but having deep meaning
puts that element in the plus column.
puts that element in the plus column.
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但這些深層的含義
也讓旗幟加點分。
也讓旗幟加點分。
06:55
Behind the phoenix,
the background is mostly white,
the background is mostly white,
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鳳凰後面大部分是白色背景，
06:58
and then it has a substantial
gold border around it.
gold border around it.
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然後有大量的金色邊界。
07:02
TK: Which is a very attractive
design element.
design element.
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凱伊：這是相當有魅力的設計元素。
07:04
RM: I think it's okay. But --
(Laughter) --
(Laughter) --
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馬斯：我認為這還過得去。但是——
（笑聲）——
（笑聲）——
07:08
here come the big no-nos of flag design.
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看看旗幟設計的大忌。
07:10
Narrator: Number four,
no lettering or seals.
no lettering or seals.
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陳述者：第四，
不要有字母或者印章。
不要有字母或者印章。
07:13
Never use writing of any kind.
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絕對不要使用任何字體。
07:15
RM: Underneath the phoenix,
there's a motto on a ribbon
there's a motto on a ribbon
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馬斯：鳳凰下面的緞帶上
寫著一句格言
寫著一句格言
07:17
that translates to
"Gold in peace, iron in war,"
"Gold in peace, iron in war,"
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其譯文為：「和平金色，戰爭鐵色」
07:21
plus -- and this is the big problem --
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另外——這是大問題——
07:23
it says San Francisco across the bottom.
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下面寫著三藩市。
07:26
TK: If you need to write the name
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凱伊：如果你得靠寫下
07:28
of what you're representing on your flag,
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旗幟所代表的事物的名稱，
07:30
your symbolism has failed.
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這象徵就失敗了。
07:32
(Laughter) (Applause)
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（笑聲）（掌聲）
07:36
RM: The United States flag
doesn't say "USA" across the front.
doesn't say "USA" across the front.
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馬斯：美國國旗上可不寫「美國」。
07:40
In fact, country flags,
they tend to behave.
they tend to behave.
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事實上，國家國旗一般比較聽話。
07:43
Like, hats off to South Africa
and Turkey and Israel
and Turkey and Israel
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比如說，看看南非、土耳其、以色列
07:46
and Somalia and Japan and Gambia.
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看看索馬里、日本、岡比亞。
07:48
There's a bunch
of really great country flags,
of really great country flags,
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這些國旗都很棒，
07:51
but they obey good design principles
because the stakes are high.
because the stakes are high.
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但是他們遵循優秀設計的原則，
因為風險太高。
因為風險太高。
07:55
They're on the international stage.
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他們走的是國際舞台。
07:58
But city, state and regional flags
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但是市旗、州旗、區旗
08:00
are another story.
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又是另一回事。
08:03
(Laughter)
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（笑聲）
08:05
There is a scourge of bad flags,
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也有一幫壞旗，
08:08
and they must be stopped.
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這些旗幟得有人叫停。
08:10
(Laughter) (Applause)
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（笑聲）（掌聲）
08:12
That is the truth and that is the dare.
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這就是真相和膽量。
08:16
The first step is to recognize
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第一步是
認清我們有一個問題。
08:18
that we have a problem.
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08:24
A lot of people tend to think
that good design
that good design
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許多人一般認為
好的設計
好的設計
08:27
is just a matter of taste,
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不過是品味問題，
08:28
and quite honestly,
sometimes it is, actually,
sometimes it is, actually,
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老實說，有時候是這樣，
08:31
but sometimes it isn't, all right?
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但有時候又不是這樣。
08:35
Here's the full list of NAVA
flag design principles.
flag design principles.
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以下是北美旗幟學協會
旗幟設計的全部原則。
旗幟設計的全部原則。
08:38
Narrator: The five
basic principles of flag design.
basic principles of flag design.
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陳述者：旗幟設計的五大基本原則。
08:42
Number one.
TK: Keep it simple.
TK: Keep it simple.
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第一。
凱伊：設計要簡單。
凱伊：設計要簡單。
08:44
Narrator: Number two.
TK: Use meaningful symbolism.
TK: Use meaningful symbolism.
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陳述者：第二。
凱伊：使用有意義的象徵。
凱伊：使用有意義的象徵。
08:46
Narrator: Number three.
TK: Use two to three basic colors.
TK: Use two to three basic colors.
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陳述者：第三。
凱伊：使用兩到三種基本顏色。
凱伊：使用兩到三種基本顏色。
08:49
Narrator: Number four.
TK: No lettering or seals.
TK: No lettering or seals.
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陳述者：第四。
凱伊：不要用任何字母或印章。
凱伊：不要用任何字母或印章。
08:51
Narrator: Never use
writing of any kind.
writing of any kind.
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陳述者：絕對不要使用任何字體。
08:53
TK: Because you can't
read that at a distance.
read that at a distance.
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凱伊：因為在遠處
你不會看到這些字。
你不會看到這些字。
08:55
Narrator: Number five.
TK: And be distinctive.
TK: And be distinctive.
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陳述者：第五。
凱伊：要獨特。
凱伊：要獨特。
08:57
RM: All the best flags tend
to stick to these principles.
to stick to these principles.
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馬斯：所有出眾的旗幟
一般會遵循這些原則。
一般會遵循這些原則。
09:00
And like I said before,
most country flags are okay.
most country flags are okay.
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像我說的那樣，大部分國旗都很好。
09:03
But here's the thing:
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但問題是：
09:04
if you showed this list of principles
to any designer of almost anything,
to any designer of almost anything,
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如果你讓任何設計師看這些原則，
09:08
they would say these principles --
simplicity, deep meaning,
simplicity, deep meaning,
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他們會說這些原則——
簡單、有意義、
簡單、有意義、
09:12
having few colors or being
thoughtful about colors,
thoughtful about colors,
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用色簡單、謹慎，
09:14
uniqueness, don't have
writing you can't read --
writing you can't read --
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獨特、不帶任何看不到的字體——
09:17
all those principles apply to them, too.
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所有這些原則
都適用於所有設計師。
都適用於所有設計師。
09:19
But sadly, good design principles
are rarely invoked
are rarely invoked
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但不幸的是，好的設計原則
很少體現在美國的市旗上。
09:23
in U.S. city flags.
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09:25
Our biggest problem
seems to be that fourth one.
seems to be that fourth one.
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我們最大的問題
看來是第四條原則。
看來是第四條原則。
09:27
We just can't stop ourselves
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我們就是不能阻止自己
09:29
from putting our names on our flags,
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將自己的名字放到旗幟上，
09:31
or little municipal seals
with tiny writing on them.
with tiny writing on them.
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或者小小的市章和小小的字體。
09:35
Here's the thing about municipal seals:
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使用市章的問題是：
09:37
They were designed
to be on pieces of paper
to be on pieces of paper
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這些市章原來的設計目的是
用在一張紙上，
用在一張紙上，
09:39
where you can read them,
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讓大家看得清，
09:41
not on flags 100 feet away
flapping in the breeze.
flapping in the breeze.
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而不是用在100尺外
隨風飄揚的旗幟上。
隨風飄揚的旗幟上。
09:44
So here's a bunch of flags again.
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這裡有一堆市旗。
09:46
Vexillologists call these SOBs:
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旗幟學家稱這些為「床照」：
09:49
seals on a bedsheet -- (Laughter) --
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床單上的印照——（笑聲）
09:52
and if you can't tell
what city they go to,
what city they go to,
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如果你不知道它們屬於哪個城市
09:55
yeah, that's exactly the problem,
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沒錯，這就是問題，
09:57
except for Anaheim, apparently.
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明顯除了阿納海姆市旗
（Anaheim，右上角）
（Anaheim，右上角）
09:58
They fixed it. (Laughter)
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他們解決了這個問題。（笑聲）
10:02
These flags are everywhere in the U.S.
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這些旗幟在美國隨處可見。
10:05
The European equivalent
of the municipal seal
of the municipal seal
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歐洲國家的市章
10:07
is the city coat of arms,
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是城市的遁形紋章，
10:09
and this is where we can learn
a lesson for how to do things right.
a lesson for how to do things right.
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我們能從中學習一下
怎樣把旗幟設計好。
怎樣把旗幟設計好。
10:13
So this is the city
coat of arms of Amsterdam.
coat of arms of Amsterdam.
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這是阿姆斯特丹的紋章。
10:15
Now, if this were a United States city,
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倘若這是一個美國城市，
10:17
the flag would probably look like this.
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這支市旗估計會長成這樣。
10:19
You know, yeah. (Laughter)
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你懂的，是吧。（笑聲）
10:22
But instead, the flag of Amsterdam
224
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2414
但是阿姆斯特丹的市旗
10:24
looks like this.
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2972
是這樣的。
10:27
Rather than plopping
the whole coat of arms
the whole coat of arms
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2090
它不是把整個紋章扔進去
10:29
on a solid background and writing
"Amsterdam" below it,
"Amsterdam" below it,
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2972
丟到一個硬邦邦的背景裡
下面再寫著「阿姆斯特丹」；
下面再寫著「阿姆斯特丹」；
10:32
they just take the key elements
of the escutcheon, the shield,
of the escutcheon, the shield,
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而是採納紋章盾牌的關鍵要素，
10:35
and they turn it into the most
badass city flag in the world.
badass city flag in the world.
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3785
將其變成世界上最惹是生非的市旗。
10:39
(Laughter) (Applause)
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（笑聲）（掌聲）
10:45
And because it's so badass,
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正因為這支旗夠搗蛋，
10:48
those flags and crosses
are found throughout Amsterdam,
are found throughout Amsterdam,
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2733
這些旗幟和交叉
在阿姆斯特丹隨處可見，
在阿姆斯特丹隨處可見，
10:50
just like Chicago, they're used.
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就像芝加哥市旗一樣受歡迎。
10:53
Even though seal-on-a-bedsheet flags
are particularly painful
are particularly painful
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3274
儘管這些床照旗幟
10:56
and offensive to me,
235
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1835
有夠讓我特別痛苦、受不了，
10:58
nothing can quite prepare you
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2043
你怎麼也不會受得了
11:00
for one of the biggest train wrecks
in vexillological history.
in vexillological history.
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4824
旗幟學歷史上最嚴重的事故之一。
11:05
Are you ready?
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1445
準備好了嗎？
11:06
It's the flag of Milwaukee, Wisconsin.
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2949
威斯康星州 密爾沃基市的市旗
11:09
(Laughter)
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2587
（笑聲）
11:17
I mean, it's distinctive,
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3994
我想，這夠獨特的。
11:21
I'll give them that.
242
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2275
這個我可以贊。
11:23
Steve Kodis: It was adopted in 1955.
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史提芬·柯蒂斯：
這支旗始用於1955年。
這支旗始用於1955年。
11:26
RM: The city ran a contest
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674357
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馬斯：密爾沃基市
舉行了一場設計比賽
舉行了一場設計比賽
11:27
and gathered a bunch of submissions
245
675857
1870
收集了一堆作品
11:29
with all kinds of designs.
246
677727
1786
各種各樣的作品設計。
11:31
SK: And an alderman
by the name of Fred Steffan
by the name of Fred Steffan
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3784
柯蒂斯：一名市政議員
名叫Fred Steffan
名叫Fred Steffan
11:35
cobbled together parts of the submissions
248
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3297
將這些作品的一些部分拼湊起來
11:38
to make what is now the Milwaukee flag.
249
686594
3344
組成了今天我們所見的
密爾沃基市市旗。
密爾沃基市市旗。
11:41
RM: It's a kitchen sink flag.
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3181
馬斯：這是一支廚房水槽旗幟。
11:45
There's a gigantic gear
representing industry,
representing industry,
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2786
大大的齒輪，代表工業；
11:47
there's a ship recognizing the port,
252
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2745
一隻船，代表港口；
11:50
a giant stalk of wheat
253
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1133
一大支麥穗
11:51
paying homage to the brewing industry.
254
699783
2020
向釀造業致敬。
11:53
It's a hot mess,
255
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1648
亂得一塌糊塗。
11:55
and Steve Kodis, a graphic designer
from Milwaukee, wants to change it.
from Milwaukee, wants to change it.
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703451
4737
史提芬·柯蒂斯是密爾沃基市的
平面設計師，他想改變這支旗。
平面設計師，他想改變這支旗。
12:00
SK: It's really awful.
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2502
柯蒂斯：這有夠可怕的。
12:02
It's a misstep on the city's behalf,
258
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2467
是這座城市的代表性失誤，
12:05
to say the least.
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713157
2020
退一步來說。
12:07
RM: But what puts
the Milwaukee flag over the top,
the Milwaukee flag over the top,
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2786
馬斯：但這支旗最讓人無法接受的是
12:09
almost to the point of self-parody,
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2020
——簡直就是一個惡搞——
12:11
is on it is a picture of the Civil War
battle flag of the Milwaukee regiment.
battle flag of the Milwaukee regiment.
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6277
裡面還有密爾沃基兵團
在內戰期間所用的戰旗。
在內戰期間所用的戰旗。
12:18
SK: So that's the final element in it
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2159
柯蒂斯：正是這最後一擊
12:20
that just makes it
that much more ridiculous,
that much more ridiculous,
264
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2411
讓這支旗變得最最滑稽，
12:22
that there is a flag design
within the Milwaukee flag.
within the Milwaukee flag.
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4504
密爾沃基市旗裡面
竟然還有一支旗。
竟然還有一支旗。
12:27
RM: On the flag. Yeah. Yeah. (Laughter)
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馬斯：旗中旗，沒錯。（笑聲）
12:30
Yeah.
267
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1603
好。
12:32
(Music)
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1732
（音樂）
12:33
Now, Milwaukee is a fantastic city.
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2415
密爾沃基市相當迷人
12:36
I've been there. I love it.
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2275
我去過那裡。相當喜愛。
12:38
The most depressing part
of this flag, though,
of this flag, though,
271
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2183
然而，這支旗最讓人傷心的是
12:40
is that there have been
two major redesign contests.
two major redesign contests.
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3134
已經舉辦過兩場大型設計比賽。
12:43
The last one was held in 2001.
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最近一場是在2001年。
12:46
One hundred and five
entries were received.
entries were received.
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2321
收到了105份作品。
12:48
TK: But in the end, the members
of the Milwaukee Arts Board
of the Milwaukee Arts Board
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756520
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柯蒂斯：但最後，
密爾沃基市的藝術委員會成員
密爾沃基市的藝術委員會成員
12:51
decided that none of the new entries
were worthy of flying over the city.
were worthy of flying over the city.
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決定沒有作品能夠取代舊旗
飄揚在城市上空。
飄揚在城市上空。
12:54
RM: They couldn't agree
to change that thing! (Laughter)
to change that thing! (Laughter)
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馬斯：他們不能就達成共識
換掉這東西！（笑聲）
換掉這東西！（笑聲）
12:58
That's discouraging enough
to make you think
to make you think
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這夠讓你挫敗認為
13:00
that good design and democracy
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好的設計和民主
13:02
just simply do not go together.
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就是水火不相容。
13:05
But Steve Kotas is going
to try one more time
to try one more time
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但是柯蒂斯要再次嘗試
13:08
to redesign the Milwaukee flag.
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重新設計密爾沃基市旗。
13:10
SK: I believe Milwaukee is a great city.
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柯蒂斯：我相信
密爾沃基市相當出色。
密爾沃基市相當出色。
13:12
Every great city deserves a great flag.
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780915
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每個出色的城市
都值得擁有一支出色的市旗。
都值得擁有一支出色的市旗。
13:15
RM: Steve isn't ready
to reveal his design yet.
to reveal his design yet.
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馬斯：柯蒂斯暫未預備
展現他的設計。
展現他的設計。
13:18
One of the things about
proposing one of these things
proposing one of these things
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要提這樣的建議，其中一個要務是
13:20
is you have to get people on board,
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你得讓大眾參與在乎，
13:22
and then you reveal your design.
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然後你在呈現你的設計。
13:24
But here's the trick:
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但這就是竅門：
13:25
If you want to design a great flag,
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要是你想設計出色的旗幟，
13:27
a kickass flag like Chicago's or D.C.'s,
which also has a great flag,
which also has a great flag,
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795776
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一支像芝加哥旗或首都華盛頓旗
那樣了不起的旗幟，
那樣了不起的旗幟，
13:31
start by drawing a one-by-one-and-a-half-
inch rectangle on a piece of paper.
inch rectangle on a piece of paper.
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那就先開始在紙上
畫一個1×1.5英寸長方形。
畫一個1×1.5英寸長方形。
13:35
Your design has to fit
within that tiny rectangle.
within that tiny rectangle.
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你的設計必須能
上這個小長方形。
上這個小長方形。
13:38
Here's why.
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請聽原因。
13:39
TK: A three-by-five-foot flag
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柯蒂斯：一支3×5英尺的旗
13:41
on a pole 100 feet away
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立在100尺外旗桿上
13:43
looks about the same size
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尺寸看上去
13:45
as a one-by-one-and-a-half-inch rectangle
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就像你在15英寸外看
一個1×1.5英寸長方形。
13:50
seen about 15 inches from your eye.
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13:53
You'd be surprised by how compelling
and simple the design can be
and simple the design can be
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你可能不知道
這樣的設計限制
這樣的設計限制
13:57
when you hold yourself to that limitation.
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825449
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可以讓你的設計
變得多麼簡單有力。
變得多麼簡單有力。
14:01
RM: Meanwhile, back in San Francisco.
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馬斯：同時，在三藩市。
14:03
Is there anything we can do?
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我們能做些什麼嗎？
14:05
TK: I like to say
that in every bad flag
that in every bad flag
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凱伊：我想說，每支壞旗裡
14:08
there's a good flag trying to get out.
(Laughter)
(Laughter)
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2348
都有一些好旗的元素躍躍欲現。
（笑聲）
（笑聲）
14:10
The way to make
San Francisco's flag a good flag
San Francisco's flag a good flag
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2300
要把三藩市市旗設計好，
14:12
is to take the motto off
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1688
就要摘下那句格言，
14:14
because you can't read that at a distance.
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2299
因為你遠處什麼都看不見。
14:16
Take the name off,
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1788
把市名拿走，
14:18
and the border might even be made thicker,
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然後金邊可以再厚一點，
14:20
so it's more a part of the flag.
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848552
1974
這就更融合到旗幟裡。
14:22
And I would simply take the phoenix
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1834
我會簡單利用這隻鳳凰，
14:24
and make it a great big element
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讓它變成一個出色的大型元素，
14:26
in the middle of the flag.
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854241
1419
立在旗幟的中心位置。
14:27
RM: But the current phoenix,
that's got to go.
that's got to go.
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855660
2946
馬斯：但是眼前的這隻鳳凰
必須閃人。
必須閃人。
14:30
TK: I would simplify
or stylize the phoenix.
or stylize the phoenix.
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858606
3319
凱伊：我會簡化或風格化這隻鳳凰。
14:33
Depict a big, wide-winged bird
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2370
想像一隻展翼大鳥
14:36
coming out of flames.
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1385
從火焰出降生。
14:37
Emphasize those flames.
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865680
1877
強調火焰。
14:39
RM: So this San Francisco flag
was designed by Frank Chimero
was designed by Frank Chimero
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867557
2817
馬斯：所以三藩市市旗
由Frank Chimero從新設計
由Frank Chimero從新設計
14:42
based on Ted Kaye's suggestions.
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870374
1589
參考了凱伊提出的建議。
14:43
I don't know what he would do
if we was completely unfettered
if we was completely unfettered
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871963
2890
要是我們完全沒有限制
也不遵循那些原則，
也不遵循那些原則，
14:46
and didn't follow those guidelines.
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1690
我不知道他會設計出什麼。
14:48
Fans of my radio show and podcast,
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1674
我的廣播電台粉絲
14:50
they've heard me complain about bad flags.
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878217
2090
已經聽過我抱怨這些壞旗。
14:52
They've sent me other suggested designs.
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880307
1904
他們寄給我其他一些設計建議。
14:54
This one's by Neil Mussett.
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882211
1950
這一張是由 Neil Mussett 設計。
14:56
Both are so much better.
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884161
2717
兩張都好很多。
14:58
And I think if they were adopted,
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886878
2740
我想，要是採用任一張，
15:01
I would see them around the city.
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889618
3018
它們會在市裡大受歡迎。
15:04
In my crusade to make
flags of the world more beautiful,
flags of the world more beautiful,
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892636
3166
我一路遠征
讓世界上的旗幟更加漂亮，
讓世界上的旗幟更加漂亮，
15:07
many listeners have taken it
upon themselves
upon themselves
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895802
2064
許多聽眾也親身體驗，
15:09
to redesign their flags
and look into the feasibility
and look into the feasibility
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897866
2485
從新設計他們的旗幟，
15:12
of getting them officially adopted.
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900351
2391
並考慮讓這些旗幟
得到官方認可的可行性。
得到官方認可的可行性。
15:16
If you see your city flag and like it,
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904018
2741
要是你看見你的市旗、喜歡你的市旗
15:18
fly it,
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906759
1454
就讓它飄揚，
15:20
even if it violates
a design rule or two.
a design rule or two.
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908213
2284
儘管這可能違反一兩條設計原則。
15:22
I don't care.
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910497
1626
我不在意。
15:24
But if you don't see your city flag,
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2177
但是要是你看不見你的市旗，
15:26
maybe it doesn't exist, but maybe it does,
340
914300
2466
也許市旗不存在，但也許是存在的，
15:28
and it just sucks,
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916766
1765
只不過是設計很醜，
15:30
and I dare you to join the effort
to try to change that.
to try to change that.
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918531
5410
那我就向你挑戰，
一起致力嘗試作出改變。
一起致力嘗試作出改變。
15:35
As we move more and more into cities,
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923941
2461
現在我們逐漸遷入城市，
15:38
the city flag will become
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926402
1742
市旗會變成
15:40
not just a symbol of that city as a place,
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928144
3134
不只是這個城市的地方象徵，
15:43
but also it could become
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931278
2067
這還可以體現出
15:45
a symbol of how that city
considers design itself,
considers design itself,
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933345
4040
城市自身如何看待設計，
15:49
especially today, as the populace
is becoming more design-aware.
is becoming more design-aware.
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937385
3915
特別在現今，大眾越來越關注設計。
15:53
And I think design awareness
is at an all-time high.
is at an all-time high.
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941300
2563
我認為，設計意識正處於歷史高位。
15:55
A well-designed flag could be seen
as an indicator of how a city
as an indicator of how a city
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943863
3785
一支設計出色的旗幟
可以反映
可以反映
15:59
considers all of its design systems:
351
947648
2856
一個城市如何看待
自身的設計體系：
自身的設計體系：
16:02
its public transit,
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950504
1802
城市的大眾捷運、
16:04
its parks, its signage.
353
952306
1997
城市公園、城市標牌。
16:06
It might seem frivolous, but it's not.
354
954303
3436
看似無足輕重，但其實很重要。
16:09
TK: Often when city leaders say,
355
957739
1978
凱伊：通常當市領導說：
16:11
"We have more important things to do
than worry about a city flag,"
than worry about a city flag,"
356
959717
4430
「我們有更要緊的事做，
而不是擔憂一支市旗。」
而不是擔憂一支市旗。」
16:16
my response is,
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964147
1812
我的反應是：
16:17
"If you had a great city flag,
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965959
1811
「如果你有一支出色的市旗，
16:19
you would have a banner
for people to rally under
for people to rally under
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967770
2414
你會有一張旗幟去團結大眾
16:22
to face those more important things."
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970184
3019
共同面對更要緊的事情。」
16:26
RM: I've seen firsthand
what a good city flag can do
what a good city flag can do
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974802
2609
馬斯：我見證過一流市旗的力量，
16:29
in the case of Chicago.
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977411
1718
在芝加哥的時候。
16:31
The marriage of good design
and civic pride
and civic pride
363
979129
2206
優秀設計和市民驕傲的完美結合
16:33
is something that we need in all places.
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981335
2368
是我們在任何地方都需要的元素。
16:35
The best part about municipal flags
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983703
2090
市旗最誘人的一點是
16:37
is that we own them.
366
985793
1858
我們有擁有權。
16:39
They are an open-source,
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987651
1787
市旗是開放資源，
16:41
publicly owned design language
of the community.
of the community.
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989438
3553
是公眾共有的社區設計語言。
16:44
When they are done well,
369
992991
1857
市旗做得好，
16:46
they are remixable, adaptable,
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994848
2532
就會有很強的適應力和混搭力，
16:49
and they are powerful.
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997380
1145
也會帶來很大的力量。
16:50
We could control the branding
and graphical imagery
and graphical imagery
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998525
2430
我們可以利用一支好旗
來控制一個城市的品牌形象，
16:52
of our cities with a good flag,
373
1000955
1834
16:54
but instead, by having
bad flags we don't use,
bad flags we don't use,
374
1002789
2485
反之，要是我們有的是
一支沒用的壞旗，
一支沒用的壞旗，
16:57
we cede that territory to sports teams
375
1005274
2577
我們就放棄了這一領域，
讓給了運動隊、商會、旅遊局。
16:59
and chambers of commerce
and tourism boards.
and tourism boards.
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1007851
2810
17:02
Sports teams can leave
and break our hearts.
and break our hearts.
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1010661
2554
運動隊可以拍拍屁股離開
讓我們心碎。
讓我們心碎。
17:05
And besides, some of us
don't really care about sports.
don't really care about sports.
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1013215
3250
另有，一些人其實
一點都不關心運動。
一點都不關心運動。
17:08
And tourism campaigns
can just be cheesy.
can just be cheesy.
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1016465
2903
而旅遊宣傳活動可以很俗氣。
17:11
But a great city flag
380
1019368
1904
但是一支出色的市旗
17:13
is something that represents
a city to its people
a city to its people
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2414
才是市民的真正城市表徵，
17:15
and its people to the world at large.
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1023686
2183
才是世界的真正人民表徵。
17:17
And when that flag is a beautiful thing,
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1025869
2113
要是一支旗幟設計動人，
17:19
that connection is a beautiful thing.
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1027982
2740
旗幟建立起來的聯繫也會動人。
17:22
So maybe all the city flags
can be as inspiring as Hong Kong
can be as inspiring as Hong Kong
385
1030722
3599
所以也許所有的市旗
可以變得相當鼓舞人心，像香港市旗
可以變得相當鼓舞人心，像香港市旗
17:26
or Portland or Trondheim,
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1034321
2298
譬如波特蘭市旗、
特隆赫姆市旗，
特隆赫姆市旗，
17:28
and we can do away with all the bad flags
387
1036619
2090
也許我們可以逃脫所有的壞旗，
17:30
like San Francisco, Milwaukee,
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1038709
2601
像三藩市市旗、密爾沃基市旗
17:33
Cedar Rapids,
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1041310
1555
錫達拉皮茲市旗，
17:34
and finally, when we're all done,
390
1042865
2369
最後要是我們都搞定了，
17:37
we can do something
about Pocatello, Idaho,
about Pocatello, Idaho,
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1045234
2600
我們可以為愛達荷州的
波卡特洛市旗想想辦法，
波卡特洛市旗想想辦法，
17:39
considered by the North American
Vexillological Association
Vexillological Association
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1047834
3971
北美旗幟學協會認為
17:43
as the worst city flag in North America.
393
1051805
4876
波卡特洛市旗
是北美最糟糕的旗幟。
是北美最糟糕的旗幟。
17:48
(Laughter) (Applause)
394
1056681
4239
（笑聲）（掌聲）
17:56
Yeah.
395
1064111
2136
沒錯。
17:58
That thing has a trademark
symbol on it, people. (Laughter)
symbol on it, people. (Laughter)
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1066247
3901
這東西有個商標在上面。（笑聲）
18:02
That hurts me just to look at.
397
1070148
3692
光看見就讓我傷心。
18:05
Thank you so much for listening.
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1073840
2020
謝謝大家的收聽。
（掌聲）
18:07
(Applause)
399
1075860
5768
18:13
["Music by: Melodium (@melodiumbox)
and Keegan DeWitt (@keegandewitt)"]
and Keegan DeWitt (@keegandewitt)"]
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3695
[音樂: Melodium (@melodiumbox)
以及Keegan DeWitt (@keegandewitt)]
以及Keegan DeWitt (@keegandewitt)]
ABOUT THE SPEAKER
Roman Mars - Digital storytellerWith his show 99% Invisible, Roman Mars discovered new ways to jolt public radio out of its old paradigms, while at the same time spinning riveting tales of design.
Why you should listen
From its humble beginnings in his home, Roman Mars’ podcast and radio show 99% Invisible accumulated a massive following to become a broadcast and internet phenomenon. Its premise -- 10- to 20-minute episodes focused on a single compelling story -- subverts public radio’s reliance on long, strictly formatted shows, and has garnered national praise.
Over a series of three runaway crowdsourced fundraising campaigns, 99% Invisible generated over $1.2 million, making Mars the most successful crowdfunded journalist in Kickstarter history.
Roman Mars | Speaker | TED.com