TED2018
Zachary R. Wood: Why it's worth listening to people you disagree with
Filmed:
Readability: 5.1
3,445,526 views
We get stronger, not weaker, by engaging with ideas and people we disagree with, says Zachary R. Wood. In an important talk about finding common ground, Wood makes the case that we can build empathy and gain understanding by engaging tactfully and thoughtfully with controversial ideas and unfamiliar perspectives. "Tuning out opposing viewpoints doesn't make them go away," Wood says. "To achieve progress in the face of adversity, we need a genuine commitment to gaining a deeper understanding of humanity."
Zachary R. Wood - Crusader for dialogue
As the head of a student group called Uncomfortable Learning, Zachary R. Wood made a point of engaging in conversation with people he disagreed with. Full bio
As the head of a student group called Uncomfortable Learning, Zachary R. Wood made a point of engaging in conversation with people he disagreed with. Full bio
Double-click the English transcript below to play the video.
00:14
In 1994,
0
2286
1523
00:15
Charles Murray and Richard Herrnstein
coauthored "The Bell Curve,"
coauthored "The Bell Curve,"
1
3833
4214
00:20
an extremely controversial book
2
8071
2101
00:22
which claims that on average,
3
10196
1921
00:24
some races are smarter
and more likely to succeed than others.
and more likely to succeed than others.
4
12141
3483
00:28
Murray and Herrnstein also suggest
5
16117
2690
00:30
that a lack of critical intelligence
explains the prominence of violent crime
explains the prominence of violent crime
6
18831
4592
00:35
in poor African-American communities.
7
23447
2447
00:39
But Charles Murray and Richard Herrnstein
are not the only people who think this.
are not the only people who think this.
8
27575
4012
00:43
In 2012,
9
31611
1527
00:45
a writer, journalist and political
commentator named John Derbyshire
commentator named John Derbyshire
10
33162
4552
00:49
wrote an article that was supposed to be
a non-black version of the talk
a non-black version of the talk
11
37738
4339
00:54
that many black parents feel
they have to give their kids today:
they have to give their kids today:
12
42101
3278
00:57
advice on how to stay safe.
13
45403
2020
01:00
In it, he offered suggestions such as:
14
48720
3032
01:03
"Do not attend events
likely to draw a lot of blacks,"
likely to draw a lot of blacks,"
15
51776
3207
01:07
"Stay out of heavily black neighborhoods"
16
55007
2270
01:09
and "Do not act the Good Samaritan
to blacks in distress."
to blacks in distress."
17
57847
3128
01:13
And yet, in 2016,
I invited John Derbyshire
I invited John Derbyshire
18
61800
4395
01:18
as well as Charles Murray
19
66219
1676
01:19
to speak at my school,
20
67919
1466
01:21
knowing full well that I would
be giving them a platform and attention
be giving them a platform and attention
21
69895
4420
01:26
for ideas that I despised and rejected.
22
74339
2856
01:30
But this is just a further evolution
23
78315
2992
01:33
of a journey of uncomfortable learning
throughout my life.
throughout my life.
24
81331
2911
01:37
When I was 10 years old, my mother
was diagnosed with schizophrenia,
was diagnosed with schizophrenia,
25
85192
4119
01:42
a mental illness characterized
by mood swings and paranoid delusions.
by mood swings and paranoid delusions.
26
90403
4160
01:47
Throughout my life, my mother's rage
would turn our small house
would turn our small house
27
95950
3587
01:51
into a minefield.
28
99561
1200
01:54
Yet, though I feared
her rage on a daily basis,
her rage on a daily basis,
29
102366
3212
01:57
I also learned so much from her.
30
105602
2192
02:00
Our relationship was complicated
and challenging,
and challenging,
31
108848
4011
02:05
and at the age of 14, it was decided
that I needed to live apart from her.
that I needed to live apart from her.
32
113816
4676
02:12
But over the years,
33
120175
1647
02:13
I've come to appreciate
some of the important lessons
some of the important lessons
34
121846
2487
02:16
my mother taught me about life.
35
124357
1506
02:18
She was the first person who spoke to me
about learning from the other side.
about learning from the other side.
36
126823
4102
02:24
And she, like me, was born and raised
37
132339
2850
02:27
in a family of committed
liberal democrats.
liberal democrats.
38
135213
2523
02:30
Yet, she encouraged me to see the world
and the issues our world faces
and the issues our world faces
39
138673
4213
02:34
as complex, controversial
and ever-changing.
and ever-changing.
40
142910
3981
02:40
One day, I came across
the phrase "affirmative action"
the phrase "affirmative action"
41
148307
2564
02:42
in a book I was reading.
42
150895
1311
02:45
And when I asked her what the term meant,
43
153377
2627
02:48
she spent what felt like an hour
44
156028
2119
02:50
giving me a thorough
and thoughtful explanation
and thoughtful explanation
45
158171
2198
02:52
that would make sense to a small child.
46
160393
1904
02:54
She even made the topic sound
at least as interesting
at least as interesting
47
162792
3572
02:58
as any of my professors have.
48
166388
1647
03:01
She explained the many reasons
why people of various political views
why people of various political views
49
169165
4007
03:05
challenge and support affirmative action,
50
173196
2182
03:07
stressing that, while she strongly
supported it herself,
supported it herself,
51
175823
3865
03:11
it was important for me to view the issue
as a controversial one
as a controversial one
52
179712
3411
03:15
with a long history,
53
183553
1333
03:17
a questionable future
54
185641
1674
03:19
and a host of complicating factors.
55
187339
2230
03:22
While affirmative action can increase
the presence of minorities
the presence of minorities
56
190680
3403
03:26
at elite educational institutions,
57
194107
2581
03:28
she felt that it could also disadvantage
hardworking people of different races
hardworking people of different races
58
196712
4478
03:33
from more affluent backgrounds.
59
201214
1952
03:37
My mom wanted me to understand
60
205411
2398
03:41
that I should never
just write off opinions
just write off opinions
61
209149
2549
03:43
that I disagreed with or disliked,
62
211722
2633
03:46
because there was always something
to learn from the perspectives of others,
to learn from the perspectives of others,
63
214379
3810
03:50
even when doing so might be difficult.
64
218902
2198
03:53
But life at home with my mom
65
221887
2236
03:56
was not the only aspect of my journey
that has been formative and uncomfortable.
that has been formative and uncomfortable.
66
224712
4582
04:01
In fourth grade, she decided
that I should attend a private school
that I should attend a private school
67
229776
3492
04:05
in order to receive
the best education possible.
the best education possible.
68
233292
2714
04:08
As a black student attending
predominantly white private schools,
predominantly white private schools,
69
236859
3290
04:12
I've encountered attitudes and behaviors
that reflected racial stereotypes.
that reflected racial stereotypes.
70
240173
3936
04:17
Several of my friends' parents
assumed within minutes of meeting me
assumed within minutes of meeting me
71
245157
4364
04:21
that my best skill was playing basketball.
72
249545
2800
04:25
And it really upset me to think
that my race made it harder for them
that my race made it harder for them
73
253244
3292
04:28
to see me as a student who loved
reading, writing and speaking.
reading, writing and speaking.
74
256560
3831
04:32
Experiences like this motivated me
to work tirelessly
to work tirelessly
75
260998
4079
04:38
to disprove what I knew
people had assumed.
people had assumed.
76
266499
2966
04:42
My mother even said that,
in order to put my best foot forward,
in order to put my best foot forward,
77
270967
3523
04:46
I had to be patient, alert
and excruciatingly well-mannered.
and excruciatingly well-mannered.
78
274514
3515
04:50
To prove that I belonged,
I had to show poise and confidence,
I had to show poise and confidence,
79
278053
4246
04:54
the ability to speak well
and listen closely.
and listen closely.
80
282323
2675
04:57
Only then would my peers see
that I deserved to be there
that I deserved to be there
81
285022
3077
05:00
as much as they did.
82
288123
1333
05:02
Despite this racial stereotyping
and the discomfort I often felt,
and the discomfort I often felt,
83
290165
4099
05:07
the learning I gained from other aspects
of being at an elite private school
of being at an elite private school
84
295387
4191
05:11
were incredibly valuable.
85
299602
1394
05:14
I was encouraged by my teachers
to explore my curiosity,
to explore my curiosity,
86
302181
4412
05:18
to challenge myself in new ways
87
306617
2182
05:20
and to deepen my understanding
of subjects that fascinated me the most.
of subjects that fascinated me the most.
88
308823
4206
05:26
And going to college was the next step.
89
314498
2600
05:30
I was excited to take my intellectual
drive and interest in the world of ideas
drive and interest in the world of ideas
90
318037
3700
05:33
to the next level.
91
321761
1229
05:35
I was eager to engage in lively debate
with peers and professors
with peers and professors
92
323014
5599
05:40
and with outside speakers;
93
328637
1781
05:42
to listen, to learn and gain
a deeper understanding of myself
a deeper understanding of myself
94
330442
4008
05:46
and of others.
95
334474
1150
05:48
While I was fortunate to meet
peers and professors
peers and professors
96
336371
3366
05:51
who were interested
in doing the same thing,
in doing the same thing,
97
339761
2546
05:54
my desire to engage with difficult ideas
was also met with resistance.
was also met with resistance.
98
342331
4661
06:00
To prepare myself to engage
with controversy in the real world,
with controversy in the real world,
99
348641
4690
06:05
I joined a group that brought
controversial speakers to campus.
controversial speakers to campus.
100
353355
3341
06:09
But many people fiercely
opposed this group,
opposed this group,
101
357157
2475
06:12
and I received significant pushback
102
360093
2492
06:14
from students, faculty
and my administration.
and my administration.
103
362609
3067
06:20
For many, it was difficult to see
104
368399
2583
06:23
how bringing controversial
speakers to campus could be valuable,
speakers to campus could be valuable,
105
371006
3737
06:26
when they caused harm.
106
374767
1457
06:28
And it was disappointing to me
facing personal attacks,
facing personal attacks,
107
376823
3205
06:32
having my administration cancel speakers
108
380052
2627
06:34
and hearing my intentions
distorted by those around me.
distorted by those around me.
109
382703
3408
06:39
My work also hurt the feelings of many,
110
387642
2870
06:42
and I understood that.
111
390536
1197
06:45
Of course, no one likes being offended,
112
393058
2682
06:47
and I certainly don't like hearing
controversial speakers
controversial speakers
113
395764
3150
06:50
argue that feminism has become
a war against men
a war against men
114
398938
3383
06:54
or that blacks have lower IQs than whites.
115
402345
2382
06:57
I also understand
116
405990
1187
06:59
that some people have experienced
traumatic experiences in their lives.
traumatic experiences in their lives.
117
407201
4906
07:05
And for some, listening to offensive views
118
413688
3071
07:08
can be like reliving the very traumas
that they've worked so hard to overcome.
that they've worked so hard to overcome.
119
416783
4201
07:13
Many argue that by giving
these people a platform,
these people a platform,
120
421704
2643
07:16
you're doing more harm than good,
121
424371
1936
07:18
and I'm reminded of this every time
I listen to these points of view
I listen to these points of view
122
426331
4286
07:22
and feel my stomach turn.
123
430641
1666
07:25
Yet, tuning out opposing viewpoints
doesn't make them go away,
doesn't make them go away,
124
433235
2948
07:28
because millions of people
agree with them.
agree with them.
125
436207
2018
07:31
In order to understand
the potential of society
the potential of society
126
439179
2627
07:33
to progress forward,
127
441830
1415
07:35
we need to understand the counterforces.
128
443879
2269
07:39
By engaging with controversial
and offensive ideas,
and offensive ideas,
129
447244
3976
07:43
I believe that we can find common ground,
130
451244
2349
07:46
if not with the speakers themselves,
131
454403
2936
07:49
then with the audiences
they may attract or indoctrinate.
they may attract or indoctrinate.
132
457363
2933
07:53
Through engaging, I believe
that we may reach a better understanding,
that we may reach a better understanding,
133
461268
5238
07:58
a deeper understanding,
134
466530
1468
08:00
of our own beliefs
135
468022
1651
08:01
and preserve the ability
to solve problems,
to solve problems,
136
469697
2698
08:05
which we can't do
if we don't talk to each other
if we don't talk to each other
137
473514
2571
08:08
and make an effort to be good listeners.
138
476109
2667
08:12
But soon after I announced
139
480275
1440
08:13
that John Derbyshire
would be speaking on campus,
would be speaking on campus,
140
481739
2798
08:16
student backlash erupted on social media.
141
484561
2976
08:19
The tide of resistance,
in fact, was so intense,
in fact, was so intense,
142
487561
2675
08:22
that my college president
rescinded the invitation.
rescinded the invitation.
143
490260
2738
08:25
I was deeply disappointed by this
because, as I saw it,
because, as I saw it,
144
493561
3135
08:28
there would be nothing
that any of my peers or I could do
that any of my peers or I could do
145
496720
3762
08:32
to silence someone who agreed with him
146
500506
2079
08:34
in the office environment
of our future employers.
of our future employers.
147
502609
2658
08:38
I look out at what's happening
on college campuses,
on college campuses,
148
506292
2838
08:41
and I see the anger.
149
509154
1167
08:42
And I get it.
150
510815
1150
08:44
But what I wish I could tell people
is that it's worth the discomfort,
is that it's worth the discomfort,
151
512363
3942
08:48
it's worth listening,
152
516329
1263
08:49
and that we're stronger,
not weaker, because of it.
not weaker, because of it.
153
517616
3532
08:54
When I think about my experiences
with uncomfortable learning,
with uncomfortable learning,
154
522395
3259
08:59
and I reflect upon them,
155
527403
1568
09:02
I've found that it's been very difficult
to change the values
to change the values
156
530035
3967
09:06
of the intellectual community
that I've been a part of.
that I've been a part of.
157
534026
2747
09:10
But I do feel a sense of hope
158
538585
1391
09:12
when I think about the individual
interactions that I've been able to have
interactions that I've been able to have
159
540000
3726
09:15
with students who both support
the work that I'm doing
the work that I'm doing
160
543750
3160
09:18
and who feel challenged by it
and who do not support it.
and who do not support it.
161
546934
3125
09:23
What I've found is that,
162
551447
1163
09:24
while it can be difficult to change
the values of a community,
the values of a community,
163
552634
2911
09:27
we can gain a lot
from individual interactions.
from individual interactions.
164
555569
3063
09:31
While I didn't get to engage
with John Derbyshire
with John Derbyshire
165
559419
3308
09:34
due to my president's disinvitation,
166
562751
2097
09:36
I was able to have dinner
with Charles Murray before his talk.
with Charles Murray before his talk.
167
564872
4076
09:42
I knew the conversation
would be difficult.
would be difficult.
168
570140
2031
09:44
And I didn't expect it to be pleasant.
169
572879
2166
09:47
But it was cordial, and I did gain
a deeper understanding of his arguments.
a deeper understanding of his arguments.
170
575069
4292
09:53
I found that he, like me,
believed in creating a more just society.
believed in creating a more just society.
171
581259
4131
09:58
The thing is, his understanding
of what justice entailed
of what justice entailed
172
586224
3968
10:02
was very different from my own.
173
590216
1604
10:04
The way in which he wanted
to understand the issue,
to understand the issue,
174
592879
2670
10:07
the way in which he wanted
to approach the issue of inequality
to approach the issue of inequality
175
595573
2930
10:10
also differed from my own.
176
598527
1733
10:12
And I found that his understanding
of issues like welfare
of issues like welfare
177
600749
3076
10:15
and affirmative action
178
603849
1194
10:17
was tied and deeply rooted
179
605067
2121
10:19
in his understanding of various
libertarian and conservative beliefs,
libertarian and conservative beliefs,
180
607212
4087
10:23
what diminishes and increases
their presence in our society.
their presence in our society.
181
611323
3556
10:27
While he expressed
his viewpoints eloquently,
his viewpoints eloquently,
182
615535
3047
10:30
I remained thoroughly unconvinced.
183
618606
1879
10:32
But I did walk away
with a deeper understanding.
with a deeper understanding.
184
620923
2987
10:36
It's my belief
185
624796
1466
10:39
that to achieve progress
in the face of adversity,
in the face of adversity,
186
627134
2787
10:43
we need a genuine commitment
187
631585
2706
10:46
to gaining a deeper
understanding of humanity.
understanding of humanity.
188
634315
2436
10:50
I'd like to see a world with more leaders
189
638077
2153
10:52
who are familiar with
the depths of the views
the depths of the views
190
640254
2136
10:54
of those they deeply disagree with,
191
642414
2868
10:58
so that they can understand the nuances
of everyone they're representing.
of everyone they're representing.
192
646998
3643
11:03
I see this as an ongoing process
involving constant learning,
involving constant learning,
193
651022
4345
11:07
and I'm confident that I'll be able
to add value down the line
to add value down the line
194
655391
3686
11:11
if I continue building empathy
and understanding
and understanding
195
659101
2768
11:13
through engaging
with unfamiliar perspectives.
with unfamiliar perspectives.
196
661893
2630
11:16
Thank you.
197
664547
1157
11:17
(Applause)
198
665728
3290
ABOUT THE SPEAKER
Zachary R. Wood - Crusader for dialogueAs the head of a student group called Uncomfortable Learning, Zachary R. Wood made a point of engaging in conversation with people he disagreed with.
Why you should listen
Zachary R. Wood wants to encourage open conversations about hard topics. He is a Robert L. Bartley Fellow at The Wall Street Journal and a class of 2018 graduate of Williams College, where he served as president of Uncomfortable Learning, a student group that sparked national controversy for inviting provocative speakers to campus, from John Derbyshire to Charles Murray. Wood's defense of such conversations led him to give Senate testimony in the summer of 2017.
His recent writing has appeared in The Wall Street Journal, The Washington Post, The Huffington Post, The Nation, The Weekly Standard, Times Higher Education, Inside Higher Ed, Jet and SLAM Magazine. In 2018, he'll publish Uncensored, a book that tells his own personal story to enrich and deepen his work as an advocate for difficult conversations. You can reach him at zachwood2448@gmail.com.
Zachary R. Wood | Speaker | TED.com