Jonathan Haidt: Can a divided America heal?
Джонатан Хайдт: Сможет ли восстановиться разделённая Америка?
Jonathan Haidt studies how -- and why -- we evolved to be moral and political creatures. Full bioChris Anderson - TED Curator
After a long career in journalism and publishing, Chris Anderson became the curator of the TED Conference in 2002 and has developed it as a platform for identifying and disseminating ideas worth spreading. Full bio
Double-click the English transcript below to play the video.
in the way that we're familiar with,
как при привычном
and how did we get here?
и как мы до этого дошли?
apocalyptic sort of feeling.
центра Пью показал,
that the other side is not just --
we strongly dislike them,
a threat to the nation.
представляют угрозу для нации.
now on both sides.
than before; it's much more intense.
что всё иначе и намного серьёзнее.
at any sort of social puzzle,
социальные вопросы,
principles of moral psychology,
моральные принципы,
have to always keep in mind
о политических вопросах,
insights into human social nature
и точно охарактеризована
against the stranger."
против чужестранца».
to create large societies
создать более крупные общества
in order to compete with others.
с другими за выживание.
and out of small groups,
из джунглей, разрастись,
eternal conflict.
are making that more bitter,
baked into most people's mental wiring
это поведение
a basic aspect of human social cognition.
социального познания.
really peacefully,
жить вместе мирно,
of fun ways of, like, playing war.
to exercise this tribal nature
удовлетворяем потребность
and exploration and meeting new people.
исследованиях, знакомстве с людьми.
as something that goes up or down --
появляются и исчезают.
to always be fighting each other,
воевать друг с другом,
can shrink or expand.
расти или уменьшаться.
could continue indefinitely.
что этот процесс бесконечен.
the sense of tribe for a while.
границы племени расширялись.
the new left-right distinction.
as we've all inherited it,
versus capital distinction,
труда капиталу,
now, increasingly,
who want to stop at nation,
of a sense of being rooted,
their community and their nation.
anti-parochial and who --
of the John Lennon song "Imagine."
вспоминаю песню Леннона «Imagine».
nothing to kill or die for."
Не за что умирать и убивать».
who want more global governance,
they don't like borders.
actually, his name is Shakespeare --
по имени Стефан Шекспир,
or drawbridge-downers?"
52-48 on that point.
в соотношении 52 к 48.
who grew up with The Beatles
of dreaming of a more connected world --
anyone think badly about that?"
feel that that isn't just silly;
не просто легкомысленно,
and they're scared of it.
неправильно и страшно.
in Europe but also here,
в Европе и здесь, в Америке, —
we have to look very carefully
about diversity and immigration.
различиях и иммиграции.
that the left loves and the right --
can't think straight about it.
быть объективными.
has grown enormously from it.
есть масса преимуществ.
do a lot of good things.
I think, don't see,
cuts social capital and trust.
общественный капитал и доверие.
study by Robert Putnam,
feel that they are the same,
a redistributionist welfare state.
благосостояние государства.
of being small, homogenous countries.
с однородным населением,
a progressive welfare state,
обеспеченное государство
left-leaning values, which says,
которые провозглашают:
The world is a great place.
we must welcome them in."
this summer,
is fairly politically correct
корректный дискурс,
as we have in America,
что происходит в Америке,
racially divided, society.
uncomfortable to talk about.
especially in Europe and for us, too,
и особенно в Европе,
themselves not racists,
humans are just too different;
our sense of what humans are capable of,
собственные человеческие возможности
much more palatable
scientist named Karen Stenner,
политолога Карен Стеннер,
we're all the same,
свои единство и общность,
a predisposition to authoritarianism.
к авторитарности.
there's not a threat
people are getting more different,
they want to kick out the deviants.
гомофобию, хотят выгнать чужих.
an authoritarian reaction.
the Lennonist line --
an authoritarian reaction.
приводит к авторитаризму.
in America with the alt-right.
в Америке.
we've seen it all over Europe.
повсюду в Европе.
or the nationalists, are actually right --
или националисты, правы:
our cultural similarity,
matter very much.
approach to immigration
a generous welfare state,
процветающее государство,
that we're all the same.
and fears about that
возрастающей иммиграции —
of the current divide.
сегодняшнего разделения.
психологический принцип,
strategic reasoning second.
стратегическое мышление.
the term "motivated reasoning"
«мотивационное мышление»
and our verbal abilities
и вербальные способности
not to help us find out the truth,
чтобы узнать истину,
defend our reputation ...
друг другом, защищая репутацию...
at justifying ourselves.
group interests into account,
it's my team versus your team,
моя команда против вашей,
that your side is wrong,
a political argument.
политический спор.
with reasons and evidence,
доказательствами и доводами,
the way reasoning works.
give us Google:
was born in Kenya.
родился в Кении.
10 million hits! Look, he was!"
10 миллионов статей! Это правда!»
surprise to a lot of people.
by techno-optimists
ореолом техно-оптимизма,
that would bring people together.
которая объединит людей.
unexpected counter-effects to that.
of yin-yang views
about certain things,
that human nature is good:
что человек по природе хороший:
the walls and all will be well.
разрушить стены и всё будет хорошо.
not libertarians --
не либертарианцы —
believe people can be greedy
что человек может быть жадным,
and we need restrictions.
all over the world,
порнографии и расизма.
have been with us forever.
природы извечны.
this feeling of division?
что углубляет наше разделение?
different threads all coming together.
одновременных течений.
actually, America and Europe --
точнее в Америке и в Европе, —
from Joe Henrich and others
Джо Хендрича и других,
ваша страна участвовала в войне,
in a commons dilemma
during World War II,
во время Второй мировой,
looking for scraps of aluminum
and government,
at compromise and cooperation.
и сотрудничать.
by the end of the '90s.
бэйби-бумеров в конце 90-х.
each other within each country,
друг другу внутри страны,
"The Greatest Generation,"
«Великого поколения»,
is the purification of the two parties.
and conservative Democrats.
и консервативные демократы.
that was really bipartisan.
была по сути двусторонней.
that started things moving,
которые дали ход событиям,
либеральная и консервативная партии.
liberal party and conservative party.
really are different,
совершенно разные,
our children to marry them,
женились друг на друге,
не имело значения.
didn't matter very much.
for post-hoc reasoning and demonization.
ретроспективного анализа и демонизации.
on the internet now is quite troubling.
в интернете, пугает.
on Twitter about the election
brought to us by #Trump."
dedication page. Disgusting!"
Отвратительно!»
is troubling to me.
быть «отвратительным», настораживает.
or a disagreement about something,
в чем-то не соглашаться,
takes things to a much deeper level.
имеет намного более глубокий подтекст.
you get angry, you're not angry;
as subhuman, monstrous,
как недочеловека, монстра,
on marital therapy.
о супружеской терапии.
of the couple shows disgust or contempt,
один показывает отвращение или презрение,
to get divorced soon,
that doesn't predict anything,
то это ещё ничего не значит,
it actually is good.
справиться, даже полезна.
uses the word "disgust" a lot.
использует слово «отвращение».
so disgust does matter a lot --
поэтому отвращение ему знакомо,
unique to him --
the Manichaean worldview,
через доктрину манихейства,
is a battle between good and evil
they're wrong or I don't like them,
что они неправы, нам они не нравятся,
for example, on campus now.
в университетских кампусах.
to keep people off campus,
generation of young people,
молодых людей,
involves a lot of disgust,
сталкиваются с отвращением,
in politics as they get older.
участие в политике, когда они вырастут.
and I think about emotions a lot.
и много думаю об эмоциях.
of disgust is actually love.
это любовь.
powerful means we have.
that they're lovely.
or changes your category as well.
твоё представление о целой категории.
much more mixed up in the their towns
были более смешанными в городах,
this great moral divide,
великое разделение,
that we're moving to be near people
предпочитают переезжать
who's on the other side.
людей с противоположной стороны.
or say to Americans,
about each other
thing to keep in mind --
scientist Alan Abramowitz,
политолога Алана Абрамовича,
is increasingly governed
демократия всё больше основывается
OK there's a candidate,
хорошо, есть кандидат.
you vote for the candidate.
вы за него голосуете.
and all sorts of other trends,
the other side so horrible, so awful,
как ужасную, страшную,
against the other side
против другой стороны,
that if people are on the left,
левые думают:
that Republicans were bad,
I can paint with all the things
with their candidate.
довольны своим кандидатом.
election in American history.
выборы за историю Америки.
your feelings about the candidate
свои чувства к кандидату
who are given a choice.
которым предоставлен выбор.
in a separate moral world --
is that we're all trapped in "The Matrix,"
в книге, — мы внутри «матрицы»,
a consensual hallucination.
согласованная галлюцинация.
that the other side --
что на другой стороне
they're the worst people in the world,
худшие люди на земле,
чтобы это доказать.
to back that up.
different set of facts.
different threats to the country.
from being in the middle
is: both sides are right.
это что обе правы.
to this country,
incapable of seeing them all.
не в состоянии увидеть их все.
that we almost need a new type of empathy?
что нам нужен новый тип эмпатии?
I can put myself in your shoes."
представляю себе».
the needy, the suffering.
нуждающимся, страдающим.
to people who we feel as other,
к тем, кого считаем другими,
to build that type of empathy?
такого рода эмпатию?
hot topic in psychology,
актуальный вопрос в психологии,
on the left in particular.
особенно у левых.
for the preferred classes of victims.
жертвам определённого класса.
think are so important.
левые, считаем важными.
because you get points for that.
и нас за это поощряют.
if you do it when it's hard to do.
когда оно даётся с трудом.
of dealing with our race problems
мы решали расовые проблемы,
for a long time
threat on our hands.
divide we face.
and gender and LGBT,
гендерные и ЛГБТ вопросы,
of the next 50 years,
нужно срочно в ближайшие 50 лет,
to get better on their own.
a lot of institutional reforms,
организационной структуры,
wonky conversation.
realizing that this is a turning point.
осознающих, что нужна перемена.
if you don't want to --
провести следующие четыре года
to spend the next four years
for the last year -- raise your hand.
провели последний год — поднимите руку.
read Marcus Aurelius.
for how to drop the fear,
полезных советов, как перестать бояться,
wisdom for this kind of empathy.
на тему этого рода эмпатии.
people do to help heal?
чтобы помочь восстановить страну?
to overcome your deepest prejudices.
и избавиться от своих предрассудков,
and stronger than race prejudices
глубже и прочнее расовых
that's the main thing.
awful for one of you --
тяжело для кого-то из вас,
reach out and say you want to talk.
встретьтесь, поговорите.
и оказывать влияние».
Friends and Influence People" --
if you start by acknowledging,
то можно научиться техникам,
about you, Uncle Bob,"
appreciation, it's like magic.
things I've learned
at apologizing now,
somebody was right about.
and it's actually really fun.
и становится приятной.
speaking with you.
с вами беседовать.
the ground that we're on
of morality and human nature.
this time with us.
ABOUT THE SPEAKERS
Jonathan Haidt - Social psychologistJonathan Haidt studies how -- and why -- we evolved to be moral and political creatures.
Why you should listen
By understanding more about our moral psychology and its biases, Jonathan Haidt says we can design better institutions (including companies, universities and democracy itself), and we can learn to be more civil and open-minded toward those who are not on our team.
Haidt is a social psychologist whose research on morality across cultures led to his 2008 TED Talk on the psychological roots of the American culture war, and his 2013 TED Talk on how "common threats can make common ground." In both of those talks he asks, "Can't we all disagree more constructively?" Haidt's 2012 TED Talk explored the intersection of his work on morality with his work on happiness to talk about "hive psychology" -- the ability that humans have to lose themselves in groups pursuing larger projects, almost like bees in a hive. This hivish ability is crucial, he argues, for understanding the origins of morality, politics, and religion. These are ideas that Haidt develops at greater length in his book, The Righteous Mind: Why Good People are Divided by Politics and Religion.
Haidt joined New York University Stern School of Business in July 2011. He is the Thomas Cooley Professor of Ethical Leadership, based in the Business and Society Program. Before coming to Stern, Professor Haidt taught for 16 years at the University of Virginia in the department of psychology.
Haidt's writings appear frequently in the New York Times and The Wall Street Journal. He was named one of the top global thinkers by Foreign Policy magazine and by Prospect magazine. Haidt received a B.A. in Philosophy from Yale University, and an M.A. and Ph.D. in Psychology from the University of Pennsylvania.
Jonathan Haidt | Speaker | TED.com
Chris Anderson - TED Curator
After a long career in journalism and publishing, Chris Anderson became the curator of the TED Conference in 2002 and has developed it as a platform for identifying and disseminating ideas worth spreading.
Why you should listen
Chris Anderson is the Curator of TED, a nonprofit devoted to sharing valuable ideas, primarily through the medium of 'TED Talks' -- short talks that are offered free online to a global audience.
Chris was born in a remote village in Pakistan in 1957. He spent his early years in India, Pakistan and Afghanistan, where his parents worked as medical missionaries, and he attended an American school in the Himalayas for his early education. After boarding school in Bath, England, he went on to Oxford University, graduating in 1978 with a degree in philosophy, politics and economics.
Chris then trained as a journalist, working in newspapers and radio, including two years producing a world news service in the Seychelles Islands.
Back in the UK in 1984, Chris was captivated by the personal computer revolution and became an editor at one of the UK's early computer magazines. A year later he founded Future Publishing with a $25,000 bank loan. The new company initially focused on specialist computer publications but eventually expanded into other areas such as cycling, music, video games, technology and design, doubling in size every year for seven years. In 1994, Chris moved to the United States where he built Imagine Media, publisher of Business 2.0 magazine and creator of the popular video game users website IGN. Chris eventually merged Imagine and Future, taking the combined entity public in London in 1999, under the Future name. At its peak, it published 150 magazines and websites and employed 2,000 people.
This success allowed Chris to create a private nonprofit organization, the Sapling Foundation, with the hope of finding new ways to tackle tough global issues through media, technology, entrepreneurship and, most of all, ideas. In 2001, the foundation acquired the TED Conference, then an annual meeting of luminaries in the fields of Technology, Entertainment and Design held in Monterey, California, and Chris left Future to work full time on TED.
He expanded the conference's remit to cover all topics, including science, business and key global issues, while adding a Fellows program, which now has some 300 alumni, and the TED Prize, which grants its recipients "one wish to change the world." The TED stage has become a place for thinkers and doers from all fields to share their ideas and their work, capturing imaginations, sparking conversation and encouraging discovery along the way.
In 2006, TED experimented with posting some of its talks on the Internet. Their viral success encouraged Chris to begin positioning the organization as a global media initiative devoted to 'ideas worth spreading,' part of a new era of information dissemination using the power of online video. In June 2015, the organization posted its 2,000th talk online. The talks are free to view, and they have been translated into more than 100 languages with the help of volunteers from around the world. Viewership has grown to approximately one billion views per year.
Continuing a strategy of 'radical openness,' in 2009 Chris introduced the TEDx initiative, allowing free licenses to local organizers who wished to organize their own TED-like events. More than 8,000 such events have been held, generating an archive of 60,000 TEDx talks. And three years later, the TED-Ed program was launched, offering free educational videos and tools to students and teachers.
Chris Anderson | Speaker | TED.com