TEDxNewy
Peter Saul: Let's talk about dying
Peter Saul: Porozprávajme sa o zomieraní
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Nemôžeme kontrolovať, či zomrieme, ale môžeme sa smrti "zmocniť", aspoň podľa slov Dr. Peter Saula. Apeluje na nás, aby sme si ujasnili naše priority týkajúce sa poslednej starostlivosti a taktiež navrhuje dve otázky, ako takýto rozhovor začať. (Natočené na TEDxNewy.)
Peter Saul - Doctor, intensive care specialist
Over the past 35 years Peter Saul has been intimately involved in the dying process for over 4,000 patients. He is passionate about improving the ways we die. Full bio
Over the past 35 years Peter Saul has been intimately involved in the dying process for over 4,000 patients. He is passionate about improving the ways we die. Full bio
Double-click the English transcript below to play the video.
00:16
Look, I had second thoughts, really,
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Viete, uvažoval som nad tým, naozaj,
00:18
about whether I could talk about this
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či sa mám o tomto rozprávať práve
00:20
to such a vital and alive audience as you guys.
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s takými vitálnymi a živými divákmi ako ste vy.
00:23
Then I remembered the quote from Gloria Steinem,
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Vtedy som si spomenul na citát Glorie Steinem,
00:26
which goes,
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ktorý znie:
00:27
"The truth will set you free,
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"Pravda ťa oslobodí,
00:29
but first it will piss you off." (Laughter)
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ale najprv ťa naserie." (smiech)
00:33
So -- (Laughter)
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(smiech)
00:35
So with that in mind, I'm going to set about
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S týmto na vedomí, pokúsim sa urobiť
00:38
trying to do those things here,
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to isté aj tu
00:39
and talk about dying in the 21st century.
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a porozprávam Vám o zomieraní v 21. storočí.
00:41
Now the first thing that will piss you off, undoubtedly,
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Bezpochyby, prvá vec, ktorá Vás nahnevá je,
00:43
is that all of us are, in fact, going to die
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každý jeden z nás raz zomrie. V skutočnosti,
00:46
in the 21st century.
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zomrieme v 21. storočí.
00:47
There will be no exceptions to that.
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Každý jeden, bez výnimky.
00:50
There are, apparently, about one in eight of you
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Hoci, podľa ankety, 1 z 8 prítomných
00:52
who think you're immortal, on surveys, but --
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si myslí, že je nesmrteľný, ale
00:55
(Laughter)
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(smiech)
00:57
Unfortunately, that isn't going to happen.
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bohužiaľ, to sa nestane.
01:01
While I give this talk, in the next 10 minutes,
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Počas môjho vystúpenia, počas najbližších 10 minút,
01:03
a hundred million of my cells will die,
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zomrie až 100 miliónov buniek v mojom tele.
01:07
and over the course of today, 2,000 of my brain cells
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Počas celého dnešného dňa zomrie 2 000 mojich mozgových buniek
01:09
will die and never come back,
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a už nikdy sa nevrátia.
01:11
so you could argue that the dying process
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Mohli by ste teda tvrdiť, že proces zomierania
01:13
starts pretty early in the piece.
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začína už na bunkovej úrovni.
01:16
Anyway, the second thing I want to say about dying in the
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Ďalšou vecou, ktorú som chcel povedať o umieraní v
01:18
21st century, apart from it's going to happen to everybody,
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21. storočí je, okrem toho, že sa jej nik z nás nevyhne,
01:20
is it's shaping up to be a bit of a train wreck
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bude to trochu pripomínať haváriu vlaku
01:23
for most of us,
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pre väčšinu z nás,
01:25
unless we do something to try and reclaim this process
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ak sa o niečo nepokúsime a presmerujeme
01:28
from the rather inexorable trajectory that it's currently on.
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ho z jeho terajšej neúprosnej dráhy.
01:32
So there you go. That's the truth.
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Takto to je, toto je pravda.
01:33
No doubt that will piss you off, and now let's see
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Niet pochýb, že vás to nepoteší. Teraz sa zamerajme na to,
01:35
whether we can set you free. I don't promise anything.
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či sa z toho dá nejako oslobodiť. Nič však nesľubujem.
01:38
Now, as you heard in the intro, I work in intensive care,
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Ako ste počuli v úvode, pracujem na intenzívnej starostlivosti
01:40
and I think I've kind of lived through the heyday
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a myslím, že som tam zažil skoro všetko.
01:44
of intensive care. It's been a ride, man.
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Bola to riadna jazda, verte mi.
01:46
This has been fantastic.
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Bolo to úžasné.
01:47
We have machines that go ping.
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Máme prístroje, ktoré cinkajú.
01:48
There's many of them up there.
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Tu ich zopár vidíte.
01:50
And we have some wizard technology which I think
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Taktiež máme fascinujúcu techniku, ktoré funguje
01:53
has worked really well, and over the course of the time
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veľmi dobre. Postupom času, ako pracujem
01:55
I've worked in intensive care, the death rate
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na intenzívnej starostlivosti, úmrtnosť mužov
01:58
for males in Australia has halved,
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sa v Austrálii znížila na polovicu.
02:00
and intensive care has had something to do with that.
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Zapríčinila sa o to aj jednotka intenzívnej starostlivosti.
02:02
Certainly, a lot of the technologies that we use
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Nepochybne, technológie, ktoré využívame
02:04
have got something to do with that.
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tomu veľmi dopomohli.
02:06
So we have had tremendous success, and we kind of
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Zožali sme veľký úspech a trochu sme sa tým
02:08
got caught up in our own success quite a bit,
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nechali uniesť a začali
02:11
and we started using expressions like "lifesaving."
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používať výrazy ako "zachrána života".
02:14
I really apologize to everybody for doing that,
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Za toto sa chcem každému ospravedlniť,
02:16
because obviously, we don't.
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pretože je zrejmé, že to tak nie je.
02:18
What we do is prolong people's lives,
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V skutočnosti predlžujeme ľudské životy,
02:20
and delay death,
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oddiaľujeme smrť,
02:22
and redirect death, but we can't, strictly speaking,
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presmerujeme ju. Avšak, presnejšie povedané,
02:25
save lives on any sort of permanent basis.
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nezachraňujeme životy natrvalo.
02:28
And what's really happened over the period of time
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Čo sa naozaj udialo počas
02:30
that I've been working in intensive care is that
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môjho pôsobenia na intenzívnej starostlivosti je,
02:33
the people whose lives we started saving back in the '70s,
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že ľudí, ktorých sme zachránili ešte v 70.,
02:36
'80s, and '90s, are now coming to die in the 21st century
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80. a 90. rokoch, zomrú v 21. storočí na
02:41
of diseases that we no longer have the answers to
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choroby, na ktoré už dávno nemáme odpovede tak,
02:44
in quite the way we did then.
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ako sme ich vtedy mali.
02:47
So what's happening now is there's been a big shift
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To, čo sa deje teraz je, že nastala veľká zmena
02:49
in the way that people die,
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v tom, ako ľudia zomierajú
02:50
and most of what they're dying of now isn't as amenable
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a s tým, na čo dnes umierajú, sa ťažko bojuje
02:53
to what we can do as what it used to be like
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a lieči v porovnaní s tým,
02:56
when I was doing this in the '80s and '90s.
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ako sme to riešili v 80. a 90. rokoch.
02:59
So we kind of got a bit caught up with this,
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Trochu sme sa v tom zamotali
03:02
and we haven't really squared with you guys about
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ešte sme to s vami neurovnali ohľadom toho,
03:05
what's really happening now, and it's about time we did.
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čo sa teraz deje a je najvyšší čas, aby sme to napravili.
03:09
I kind of woke up to this bit in the late '90s
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Ja som si uvedomil na konci 90. rokov,
03:13
when I met this guy.
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keď som stretol tohto chlapíka.
03:15
This guy is called Jim, Jim Smith, and he looked like this.
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Volal sa Jim, Jim Smith a vyzeral takto.
03:19
I was called down to the ward to see him.
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Zavolali ma na oddelenie, aby som sa naňho pozrel.
03:22
His is the little hand.
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Tá malá ruka je jeho.
03:24
I was called down to the ward to see him
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Na oddelenie, aby som sa naňho pozrel, ma zavolal
03:25
by a respiratory physician.
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pľúcny lekár.
03:26
He said, "Look, there's a guy down here.
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Povedal: "Pozri, dole je jeden pán,
03:28
He's got pneumonia,
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ktorý má zápal pľúc
03:30
and he looks like he needs intensive care.
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a asi by potreboval intenzívnu starostlivosť."
03:33
His daughter's here and she wants everything possible
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Je tu s ním jeho dcéra a chce, aby sa
03:35
to be done."
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preňho spravilo všetko, čo sa len dá.
03:37
Which is a familiar phrase to us.
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Pre nás to je už dobre známa fráza.
03:40
So I go down to the ward and see Jim,
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Zišiel som na oddelenie, aby som sa s ním stretol.
03:42
and his skin his translucent like this.
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Jeho koža bola asi takto priesvitná.
03:43
You can see his bones through the skin.
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Mohli ste vidieť jeho kosti.
03:46
He's very, very thin,
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Bol priveľmi chudý
03:47
and he is, indeed, very sick with pneumonia,
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a v skutku, veľmi chorý na zápal pľúc.
03:50
and he's too sick to talk to me,
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Až taký chorý, že nevládal rozprávať.
03:52
so I talk to his daughter Kathleen, and I say to her,
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Rozprával som sa s jeho dcérou Kathleen a povedal som jej:
03:57
"Did you and Jim ever talk about
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"Rozprávali ste sa s Jimom niekedy o tom,
04:00
what you would want done
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čo by ste spravili,
04:02
if he ended up in this kind of situation?"
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keby sa dostal do takejto situácie?"
04:04
And she looked at me and said, "No, of course not!"
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Pozrela sa na mňa a odpovedala: "Samozrejme, že nie!"
04:07
I thought, "Okay. Take this steady."
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Pomyslel som si, musím byť pokojný.
04:13
And I got talking to her, and after a while, she said to me,
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Porozprával som sa s ňou a po chvíli mi povedala:
04:15
"You know, we always thought there'd be time."
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"Viete, vždy sme si mysleli, že máme čas."
04:18
Jim was 94. (Laughter)
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Jim mal 94 rokov. (smiech)
04:22
And I realized that something wasn't happening here.
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Vtedy som si uvedomil, že tu niečo chýba.
04:25
There wasn't this dialogue going on
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Nebol tu ten dialóg,
04:26
that I imagined was happening.
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ktorý som si myslel, že bude.
04:29
So a group of us started doing survey work,
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Preto skupinka z nás začala pracovať na prieskume.
04:32
and we looked at four and a half thousand nursing home
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Skúmali sme 4500 opatrovateľských ústavov
04:34
residents in Newcastle, in the Newcastle area,
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v meste Newcastle, v jeho okolí
04:37
and discovered that only one in a hundred of them
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a zistili sme, že iba v 1 zo 100 majú plán
04:40
had a plan about what to do when their hearts stopped beating.
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na riešenie situácie, keď ľudia zomrú.
04:43
One in a hundred.
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1 zo 100.
04:44
And only one in 500 of them had plan about what to do
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A len v 1 z 500 mali plán čo robiť,
04:48
if they became seriously ill.
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keď pacienti vážne ochorejú.
04:51
And I realized, of course, this dialogue
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Uvedomil som si, že tento dialóg sa
04:54
is definitely not occurring in the public at large.
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celkom určite nerozoberá na verejnosti vo veľkosť.
04:58
Now, I work in acute care.
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Teraz pracujem na akútnej starostlivosti.
05:00
This is John Hunter Hospital.
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Toto je nemocnica Johna Huntera.
05:02
And I thought, surely, we do better than that.
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Pomyslel som si, s istotou, vieme to robiť aj lepšie.
05:06
So a colleague of mine from nursing called Lisa Shaw and I
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Preto moja kolegyňa zo starostlivosti, Lisa Shaw a ja
05:09
went through hundreds and hundreds of sets of notes
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sme prešli stovky a stovky poznámok
05:11
in the medical records department
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v oddelení lekárskych záznamov.
05:13
looking at whether there was any sign at all
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Zameral som sa na akýkoľvek náznak
05:15
that anybody had had any conversation about
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konverzácie medzi ľuďmi o tom, čo by
05:18
what might happen to them if the treatment they were
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sa im mohlo stať, keby liečba, ktorú podstupujú
05:19
receiving was unsuccessful to the point that they would die.
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nebola účinná a mohli by zomrieť.
05:23
And we didn't find a single record of any preference
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Nenašli sme ani jednu zmienku o tom,
05:26
about goals, treatments or outcomes from any
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o cieľoch, liečbe alebo závery z iných záznamov, ktoré
05:30
of the sets of notes initiated by a doctor or by a patient.
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boli iniciované doktorom alebo pacientom.
05:34
So we started to realize
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Začali sme si uvedomovať,
05:37
that we had a problem,
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že tu máme problém.
05:39
and the problem is more serious because of this.
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Problém ktorého závažnosť rastie.
05:44
What we know is that obviously we are all going to die,
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Všetci sme si vedomí toho, že raz zomrieme,
05:47
but how we die is actually really important,
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ale ako zomrieme, je naozaj veľmi dôležité.
05:50
obviously not just to us, but also to how that
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Nielen kvôli nám, ale aj kvôli tomu,
05:54
features in the lives of all the people who live on afterwards.
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ako to ovplyvní ľudí z nášho okolia.
05:57
How we die lives on in the minds of everybody
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To, ako zomrieme, zostáva v mysli každého,
05:59
who survives us, and
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koho sme opustili a
06:02
the stress created in families by dying is enormous,
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stres, ktorý tým v rodine vzniká, je enormný.
06:06
and in fact you get seven times as much stress by dying
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V skutočnosti, smrť na intenzívnej starostlivosti spôsobuje
06:09
in intensive care as by dying just about anywhere else,
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7-krát väčší stres, ako keď smrť nastane hocikde inde.
06:11
so dying in intensive care is not your top option
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Preto zomrieť na jednotke intenzívnej starostlivosti nie je najlepším výberom,
06:14
if you've got a choice.
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ak si môžete vybrať.
06:17
And, if that wasn't bad enough, of course,
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Ako keby to už samo o sebe nebolo zlé,
06:19
all of this is rapidly progressing towards the fact that
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všetko to rýchlo smeruje k tomu, že
06:22
many of you, in fact, about one in 10 of you at this point,
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veľa z vás, vlastne asi 1 z 10 v vás,
06:24
will die in intensive care.
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zomrie na jednotke intenzívnej starostlivosti.
06:26
In the U.S., it's one in five.
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V USA je to 1 z 5.
06:27
In Miami, it's three out of five people die in intensive care.
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V Miami sú to 3 z 5.
06:31
So this is the sort of momentum
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Toto je asi približne rýchlosť,
06:33
that we've got at the moment.
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ktorú tu v tomto smere teraz máme.
06:35
The reason why this is all happening is due to this,
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Dôvod, prečo sa to deje je práve tento
06:37
and I do have to take you through what this is about.
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a teraz s vám poviem, o čom to vlastne je.
06:39
These are the four ways to go.
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Existujú 4 spôsoby.
06:41
So one of these will happen to all of us.
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Jeden sa stane každému z nás.
06:44
The ones you may know most about are the ones
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Tie, ktoré asi poznáte, sú tie,
06:46
that are becoming increasingly of historical interest:
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ktoré sú zaujímavé z historiského hľadiska:
06:49
sudden death.
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náhla smrť.
06:50
It's quite likely in an audience this size
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Je celkom pravdepodobné, že pri publiku takejto veľkosti
06:52
this won't happen to anybody here.
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sa nikomu nič takéto nestane.
06:54
Sudden death has become very rare.
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Náhla smrť sa stala veľkou raritou.
06:56
The death of Little Nell and Cordelia and all that sort of stuff
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Smrť malého Nella (Dickens - Starožitnícky obchod) a Cordelie (Shakespeare - Kráľ Lear) a
06:59
just doesn't happen anymore.
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podobné príbehy sa už nestávajú.
07:00
The dying process of those with terminal illness
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Umieranie na smrteľné choroby,
07:03
that we've just seen
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aké sme práve videli,
07:04
occurs to younger people.
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sa objavujú u mladých ľudí.
07:05
By the time you've reached 80, this is unlikely to happen to you.
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Je veľmi nepravdepodobné, že keď budete mať 80 rokov, takto ochoriete.
07:08
Only one in 10 people who are over 80 will die of cancer.
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Len 1 z 10 ľudí, ktorí má viac ako 80, zomrie na rakovinu.
07:12
The big growth industry are these.
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Rozmach majú hlavne choroby ako
07:16
What you die of is increasing organ failure,
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je zlyhanie orgánu,
07:20
with your respiratory, cardiac, renal,
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dýchacieho, srdcového či obličkového,
07:22
whatever organs packing up. Each of these
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čokoľvek, čo robia. Každé z nich
07:24
would be an admission to an acute care hospital,
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vám zabezpečí prijatie na akútnej starostlivosti,
07:26
at the end of which, or at some point during which,
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na konci ktorej alebo počas ktorej
07:28
somebody says, enough is enough, and we stop.
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niekto povie, že už stačilo a my prestaneme.
07:30
And this one's the biggest growth industry of all,
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A toto je jeden z najväčších nárastov zo všetkých
07:33
and at least six out of 10 of the people in this room
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a minimálne 6 z 10 vás prítomných
07:36
will die in this form, which is
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zomrie touto formou, čo je
07:38
the dwindling of capacity
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znižovanie kapacity
07:42
with increasing frailty,
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s oslabovaním zdravia.
07:44
and frailty's an inevitable part of aging,
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Oslabenie zdravia je neodľučiteľnou súčasťou starnutia
07:47
and increasing frailty is in fact the main thing
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a jeho zvyšovanie je v skutočnosti hlavnou príčinou,
07:49
that people die of now,
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prečo dnes ľudia zomierajú
07:50
and the last few years, or the last year of your life
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a posledné roky alebo posledné roky vášho života
07:52
is spent with a great deal of disability, unfortunately.
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strávite, bohužiaľ, s ťažkou invaliditou.
07:56
Enjoying it so far? (Laughs)
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Stále si to ešte užívate? (smeje sa)
08:00
(Laughter)
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(smiech)
08:03
Sorry, I just feel such a, I feel such a Cassandra here.
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Prepáčte, ale pripadám si tu ako Kassandra (*grécka mytológia - veštica, ktorej nik neveril)
08:06
(Laughter)
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(smiech)
08:11
What can I say that's positive? What's positive is
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Čo je na tom pozitívne? Pozitívne je to,
08:13
that this is happening at very great age, now.
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že sa to deje až vo veľmi vysokom veku.
08:15
We are all, most of us, living to reach this point.
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Všetci, prípadne väčšina, sa toho dožijeme.
08:18
You know, historically, we didn't do that.
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Viete, v histórii to tak nebolo.
08:20
This is what happens to you
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Toto sa vám stane,
08:21
when you live to be a great age,
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ak sa dožijete vysokého veku
08:24
and unfortunately, increasing longevity does mean
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a bohužiaľ, zvyšovanie dlhovekosti znamená
08:25
more old age, not more youth.
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viac staroby, nie viac mladosti.
08:27
I'm sorry to say that. (Laughter)
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Nehnevajte sa, že som to povedal. (smiech)
08:33
What we did, anyway, look, what we did,
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To, čo sme spravili, v každom prípade,
08:35
we didn't just take this lying down
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sme neurobili ležiac
08:37
at John Hunter Hospital and elsewhere.
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v nemocnici Johna Huntera alebo inde.
08:38
We've started a whole series of projects
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Začali sme s celou sériou projektov,
08:40
to try and look about whether we could, in fact, involve
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skúsili a zisťovali sme, či by sme mohli zapojiť
08:43
people much more in the way that things happen to them.
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ľudí viac do toho, čo sa im môže stať.
08:46
But we realized, of course, that we are dealing
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Samozrejme, uvedomili sme si, že sa zaoberáme
08:48
with cultural issues,
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s kultúrnymi otázkami.
08:50
and this is, I love this Klimt painting,
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A toto je, zbožňujem maľby od Klimta,
08:52
because the more you look at it, the more you kind of get
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pretože čím viac sa na ne pozeráte, tým viac sa
08:54
the whole issue that's going on here,
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dostanete podstaty toho, čo sa tam deje,
08:56
which is clearly the separation of death from the living,
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čo je jednoznačne oddelenie smrti od života,
09:00
and the fear — Like, if you actually look,
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strachu, ako, keď sa pozorne pozriete,
09:01
there's one woman there
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je tam jedna žena,
09:03
who has her eyes open.
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ktorá má otvorené oči.
09:05
She's the one he's looking at,
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Práve na ňu sa pozerá
09:06
and [she's] the one he's coming for. Can you see that?
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a ona je tá, po ktorú si ide. Vidíte to?
09:10
She looks terrified.
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Vyzerá vystrašene.
09:11
It's an amazing picture.
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Je to neuveriteľný obraz.
09:13
Anyway, we had a major cultural issue.
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Takže, mali sme dôležitú kultúrnu otázku.
09:15
Clearly, people didn't want us to talk about death,
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Išlo o to, že ľudia nechceli, aby sme rozprávali o smrti.
09:17
or, we thought that.
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Aspoň sme si to mysleli.
09:18
So with loads of funding from the Federal Government
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S obrovskou finančnou podporou federálnej vlády
09:20
and the local Health Service, we introduced a thing
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a miestneho zdravotníctva, predstavili sme v nemocnici
09:22
at John Hunter called Respecting Patient Choices.
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Johna Huntera vec s názvom "Rešpektujeme výber pacienta".
09:25
We trained hundreds of people to go to the wards
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Vycvičili sme stovky ľudí, ktorí potom šli na oddelenie
09:28
and talk to people about the fact that they would die,
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a rozprávali sa s ľuďmi o tom, že by mohli zomrieť
09:31
and what would they prefer under those circumstances.
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a čo by si za daných okolností vybrali.
09:33
They loved it. The families and the patients, they loved it.
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Zbožňovali to. Rodiny, pacienti, každému sa to páčilo.
09:36
Ninety-eight percent of people really thought
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98% ľudí si myslelo,
09:39
this just should have been normal practice,
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že toto by malo byť súčasťou praxe
09:40
and that this is how things should work.
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a že takto by sa to malo robiť.
09:43
And when they expressed wishes,
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Keď za zverili so svojimi želaniami,
09:45
all of those wishes came true, as it were.
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každé jedno sa naplnilo, tak ako chceli.
09:47
We were able to make that happen for them.
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Boli sme schopní to pre ich urobiť.
09:49
But then, when the funding ran out,
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Avšak potom, ako sa minula finančná podpora,
09:51
we went back to look six months later,
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vrátili sme sa do čias spred 6 mesiacov
09:53
and everybody had stopped again,
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a všetko skončilo,
09:55
and nobody was having these conversations anymore.
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nikto sa o tomto nerozprával.
09:58
So that was really kind of heartbreaking for us,
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Veľmi nás to mrzelo, pretože
10:01
because we thought this was going to really take off.
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sme si mysleli, že sa to udrží.
10:03
The cultural issue had reasserted itself.
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Kultúrna otázka sa znovu presadila.
10:07
So here's the pitch:
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Takže, tu je ponuka:
10:08
I think it's important that we don't just get on this freeway
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Je potrebné vedieť, nedostaneme sa na cestu smerujúcu na jednotku intenzívnej starostlivosti
10:12
to ICU without thinking hard about whether or not
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len tak bez rozmysllu či to je, alebo nie je miesto,
10:15
that's where we all want to end up,
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kde všetci chceme skončiť.
10:17
particularly as we become older and increasingly frail
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Najmä, keď budeme starší a náchylní na choroby
10:19
and ICU has less and less and less to offer us.
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a toto miesto nám toho môže ponúknuť stále menej a menej.
10:23
There has to be a little side road
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Musí tu byť aj odbočka pre tých,
10:25
off there for people who don't want to go on that track.
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ktorí týmto smerom nechcú ísť.
10:29
And I have one small idea,
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Mám jeden malý nápad
10:32
and one big idea about what could happen.
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a jeden väčší o tom, čo by sa mohlo stať.
10:36
And this is the small idea.
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Toto je ten malý nápad.
10:37
The small idea is, let's all of us
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Zaoberajme sa všetci viac tým,
10:40
engage more with this in the way that Jason has illustrated.
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čo nám bližšie priblížil Jason.
10:44
Why can't we have these kinds of conversations
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Prečo by sme nemali o tom rozprávať
10:46
with our own elders
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s našimi staršími členmi rodiny
10:48
and people who might be approaching this?
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a s ľuďmi, ktorých by sa to mohlo týkať?
10:50
There are a couple of things you can do.
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Existuje niekoľko vecí, ktoré môžete urobiť.
10:52
One of them is, you can,
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Jednou z nich je, že sa spýtate
10:54
just ask this simple question. This question never fails.
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prostú otázku. Tá nikdy nesklame.
10:57
"In the event that you became too sick to speak for yourself,
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"V prípade, ak by si bol veľmi chorý a nevedel by si za seba rozprávať,
11:01
who would you like to speak for you?"
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koho by si si vybral, aby rozprával v tvojom mene?"
11:04
That's a really important question to ask people,
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Toto je naozaj veľmi dôležitá otázka,
11:06
because giving people the control over who that is
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pretože umožniť ľuďom, aby mali nad niekým takúto moc,
11:08
produces an amazing outcome.
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zapríčiňuje ohromný výsledok.
11:11
The second thing you can say is,
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Druhou možnosťou, ktorú sa môžete spýtať, je:
11:12
"Have you spoken to that person
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"Rozprávali ste sa s tou konkrétnou osobou
11:14
about the things that are important to you
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o veciach, ktoré sú pre vás dôležité a vďaka ktorým by sme
11:16
so that we've got a better idea of what it is we can do?"
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mohli získať lepší obraz o tom, čo by sme mohli urobiť?"
11:20
So that's the little idea.
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To bol ten menší nápad.
11:22
The big idea, I think, is more political.
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Ten väčší je viac politickejší.
11:24
I think we have to get onto this.
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Myslím, že sa k tomuto musíme dostať.
11:26
I suggested we should have Occupy Death.
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Navrhujem, aby sme spravili "Occupy smrti".
11:29
(Laughter)
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(smiech)
11:32
My wife said, "Yeah, right, sit-ins in the mortuary.
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Moja žena mi na to povedala: "Iste, samozrejme, na protest obsaďme márnicu.
11:34
Yeah, yeah. Sure." (Laughter)
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Pravdaže." (smiech)
11:37
So that one didn't really run,
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Tento mi teda moc nevyšiel,
11:39
but I was very struck by this.
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aj keď ma to oslovilo.
11:40
Now, I'm an aging hippie.
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Teraz som už starnúci hipík.
11:42
I don't know, I don't think I look like that anymore, but
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Neviem, nemyslím si, že tak ešte vyzerám, ale
11:45
I had, two of my kids were born at home in the '80s
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obe moje deti sa narodili doma, v 80. rokoch,
11:47
when home birth was a big thing, and we baby boomers
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keď rodiť doma bola veľká vec a my, narodení počas populačnej explózie,
11:51
are used to taking charge of the situation,
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sme sa radi chopili iniciatívy.
11:53
so if you just replace all these words of birth,
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Takže, ak by ste nahradili všetky slová o narodení,
11:57
I like "Peace, Love, Natural Death" as an option.
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mne sa páči "mier, láska, prirodzená smrť" ako možnosť.
12:00
I do think we have to get political
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Naozaj si myslím, že by sme mali byť politickejší
12:01
and start to reclaim this process from
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a vytrhnúť tento proces z
12:04
the medicalized model in which it's going.
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lekárskej predlohy, v ktorej momentálne je.
12:06
Now, listen, that sounds like a pitch for euthanasia.
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Trochu to znie ako boj za eutanáziu.
12:08
I want to make it absolutely crystal clear to you all,
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Aby som to ujasnil,
12:10
I hate euthanasia. I think it's a sideshow.
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nemám rád eutanáziu. Je to len okrajová možnosť.
12:13
I don't think euthanasia matters.
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Nemyslím si, že je podstatná.
12:15
I actually think that,
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Skôr som toho názoru,
12:17
in places like Oregon,
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že v miestach ako je Oregon,
12:20
where you can have physician-assisted suicide,
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kde máte možnosť asistovanej samovraždy,
12:23
you take a poisonous dose of stuff,
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užijete jedovatú látku,
12:25
only half a percent of people ever do that.
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len polovica percenta ľudí k tomu pristúpi.
12:27
I'm more interested in what happens to the 99.5 percent
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Skôr ma zaujíma to, čo sa stane s 99,5% ľudí,
12:30
of people who don't want to do that.
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ktorí to nechcú urobiť.
12:32
I think most people don't want to be dead,
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Myslím si, že väčšina ľudí nechce zomrieť.
12:34
but I do think most people want to have some control
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Aj keď väčšina z nich určite chce mať nejakú kontrolu
12:36
over how their dying process proceeds.
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nad tým, ako budú zomierať.
12:39
So I'm an opponent of euthanasia,
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Som proti eutanázii, ale
12:40
but I do think we have to give people back some control.
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ľuďom by sme mali vrátiť určitú kontrolu.
12:43
It deprives euthanasia of its oxygen supply.
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Pripravuje to eutanáziu o jej zásoby kyslíka.
12:46
I think we should be looking at stopping
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Mali by sme zaoberať zastavením
12:47
the want for euthanasia,
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potreby eutanázie,
12:48
not for making it illegal or legal or worrying about it at all.
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nie tým, že bude nelegálna či legálna alebou za ňou vôbec zaoberať.
12:53
This is a quote from Dame Cicely Saunders,
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Toto je citát dámy Cicely Saunders,
12:57
whom I met when I was a medical student.
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ktorú som stretol ako študent medicíny.
12:58
She founded the hospice movement.
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Založila hospicové hnutie.
13:01
And she said, "You matter because you are,
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Ten citát znie: "Záleží na tebe, lebo ty si ty.
13:03
and you matter to the last moment of your life."
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Záleží na tebe do posledného momentu tvojho života."
13:06
And I firmly believe that
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Pevne verím, že toto
13:08
that's the message that we have to carry forward.
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je správa, ktorú musíme niesť ďalej.
13:11
Thank you. (Applause)
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Ďakujem. (potlesk)
ABOUT THE SPEAKER
Peter Saul - Doctor, intensive care specialistOver the past 35 years Peter Saul has been intimately involved in the dying process for over 4,000 patients. He is passionate about improving the ways we die.
Why you should listen
Dr. Peter Saul is a Senior Intensive Care specialist in the adult and pediatric ICU at John Hunter Hospital, and Director of Intensive Care at Newcastle Private Hospital in Australia. After spending time as the Head of Discipline for Medical Ethics at Newcastle University, he is now a leading adviser to the State and Federal health departments.
Peter Saul | Speaker | TED.com