TEDWomen 2015
Nonny de la Peña: The future of news? Virtual reality
Noni de la Penja (Nonny de la Peña): Budućnost novinarstva? Virtuelna stvarnost
Filmed:
Readability: 3.8
1,291,722 views
Šta ako biste mogli da doživite priču celim svojim telom, a ne samo umom? Noni de la Penja radi na novom vidu novinarstva koji kombinuje tradicionalno izveštavanje sa novim tehnologijama virtuelne stvarnosti da bi gledaoce uvukla u priču. Rezultat je provokativno iskustvo koje će, nada se de la Penja, pomoći ljudima da razumeju i dožive vesti na sasvim nov način.
Nonny de la Peña - Virtual reality pioneer
Nonny de la Peña uses new, immersive media to tell stories that create empathy in readers and viewers. Full bio
Nonny de la Peña uses new, immersive media to tell stories that create empathy in readers and viewers. Full bio
Double-click the English transcript below to play the video.
Šta ako bih mogla da vam predstavim priču
00:12
What if I could present you a story
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00:14
that you would remember
with your entire body
with your entire body
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koju biste zapamtili celim bićem
00:17
and not just with your mind?
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a ne samo umom?
00:19
My whole life as a journalist,
I've really been compelled
I've really been compelled
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Živeći kao novinar, stvarno sam morala
00:22
to try to make stories
that can make a difference
that can make a difference
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da se trudim da pišem priče
koje mogu nešto da promene
koje mogu nešto da promene
00:24
and maybe inspire people to care.
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i možda inspirišu ljude
da se za nešto zainteresuju.
da se za nešto zainteresuju.
00:26
I've worked in print.
I've worked in documentary.
I've worked in documentary.
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Radila sam u štampi.
Radila sam dokumentarce.
Radila sam dokumentarce.
Radila sam u emisijama.
00:29
I've worked in broadcast.
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00:30
But it really wasn't until
I got involved with virtual reality
I got involved with virtual reality
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Ipak, sve dok se nisam uključila
u rad sa virtuelnom stvarnošću
u rad sa virtuelnom stvarnošću
00:33
that I started seeing
these really intense,
these really intense,
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nisam zaista uspela da vidim
te zaista intenzivne,
te zaista intenzivne,
00:36
authentic reactions from people
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iskrene reakcije ljudi
00:38
that really blew my mind.
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koje su me zaista oduševile.
00:40
So the deal is that with VR,
virtual reality,
virtual reality,
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Dakle, caka je u tome što kroz VR,
virtuelnu realnost,
virtuelnu realnost,
00:44
I can put you on scene
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mogu da vas prenesem na mesto radnje,
00:47
in the middle of the story.
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u sred priče.
00:50
By putting on these goggles
that track wherever you look,
that track wherever you look,
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Stavljajući ove naočare
koje prate vaš pogled,
koje prate vaš pogled,
00:53
you get this whole-body sensation,
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dobijate osećaj kao da ste zapravo
00:56
like you're actually, like, there.
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celim telom zaista tamo.
00:59
So five years ago was about when
I really began to push the envelope
I really began to push the envelope
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Pre oko 5 godina sam zaista
počela da pomeram granice
počela da pomeram granice
01:02
with using virtual reality
and journalism together.
and journalism together.
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u kombinovanju virtuelne stvarnosti
i novinarstva.
Htela sam da napravim rad o gladi.
01:05
And I wanted to do a piece about hunger.
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01:08
Families in America are going hungry,
food banks are overwhelmed,
food banks are overwhelmed,
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Porodice u Americi su sve gladnije,
banke hrane su preopterećene
banke hrane su preopterećene
01:11
and they're often running out of food.
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i često ostaju bez hrane.
01:14
Now, I knew I couldn't
make people feel hungry,
make people feel hungry,
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Znala sam da ne mogu da učinim
da ljudi osete glad,
da ljudi osete glad,
01:17
but maybe I could figure out a way
to get them to feel something physical.
to get them to feel something physical.
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ali možda sam mogla da nađem način
da nešto fizički osete.
da nešto fizički osete.
01:22
So -- again, this is five years ago --
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Dakle - opet, ovo je bilo pre 5 godina -
01:25
so doing journalism
and virtual reality together
and virtual reality together
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dakle, kombinovanje novinarstva
i virtuelne stvarnosti
i virtuelne stvarnosti
01:29
was considered
a worse-than-half-baked idea,
a worse-than-half-baked idea,
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smatralo se gorim i od nerazrađene ideje,
01:32
and I had no funding.
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i nisam imala finansijskih sredstava.
01:33
Believe me, I had a lot
of colleagues laughing at me.
of colleagues laughing at me.
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Verujte mi, mnoge kolege su mi se smejale.
01:35
And I did, though,
have a really great intern,
have a really great intern,
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Ipak, imala sam jako dobrog stažistu,
01:39
a woman named Michaela Kobsa-Mark.
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ženu po imenu Mihaela Kobsa-Mark.
01:41
And together we went out to food banks
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Zajedno smo odlazile u banke hrane
01:43
and started recording
audio and photographs.
audio and photographs.
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i počele da prikupljamo
snimke i fotografije.
snimke i fotografije.
01:46
Until one day she came back to my office
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Sve dok jednog dana nije došla
u moju kancelariju jecajući,
u moju kancelariju jecajući,
01:48
and she was bawling, she was just crying.
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samo je plakala.
01:51
She had been on scene at a long line,
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Bila je na terenu gde se čekao dug red,
01:53
where the woman running the line
was feeling extremely overwhelmed,
was feeling extremely overwhelmed,
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i žena koja je čekala u redu
se osećala iscrpljeno
se osećala iscrpljeno
01:57
and she was screaming,
"There's too many people!
"There's too many people!
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i počela je da viče:
„Ima previše ljudi ovde!
„Ima previše ljudi ovde!
02:00
There's too many people!"
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Ima previše ljudi!"
02:02
And this man with diabetes
doesn't get food in time,
doesn't get food in time,
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Jedan čovek, dijabetičar,
nije dobio hranu na vreme,
nije dobio hranu na vreme,
02:06
his blood sugar drops too low,
and he collapses into a coma.
and he collapses into a coma.
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šećer mu je pao i on je pao u komu.
02:10
As soon as I heard that audio,
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Čim sam poslušala snimak,
02:12
I knew that this would be
the kind of evocative piece
the kind of evocative piece
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znala sam da je to provokativno delo
02:15
that could really describe
what was going on at food banks.
what was going on at food banks.
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koje bi moglo da prikaže šta se
zaista dešava u bankama hrane.
zaista dešava u bankama hrane.
02:19
So here's the real line.
You can see how long it was, right?
You can see how long it was, right?
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Pa, evo pravog reda.
Možete da vidite koliko je dug, zar ne?
Možete da vidite koliko je dug, zar ne?
02:22
And again, as I said, we didn't
have very much funding,
have very much funding,
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Kao što sam rekla,
nismo imali mnogo sredstava,
nismo imali mnogo sredstava,
02:25
so I had to reproduce it
with virtual humans that were donated,
with virtual humans that were donated,
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pa smo morali to da nadomestimo
virtuelnim ljudima koji su dodati,
virtuelnim ljudima koji su dodati,
02:29
and people begged and borrowed favors
to help me create the models
to help me create the models
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ljudi su molili i tražili usluge od drugih
da mi pomognu da kreiram modele
da mi pomognu da kreiram modele
i napravimo sve precizno
koliko je u našoj moći.
koliko je u našoj moći.
02:33
and make things as accurate as we could.
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02:35
And then we tried to convey
what happened that day
what happened that day
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Zatim smo pokušali da prikažemo
šta se dešavalo tog dana
šta se dešavalo tog dana
sa što većom preciznošću.
02:38
with as much as accuracy as is possible.
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02:41
(Video) Voice: There's too many people!
There's too many people!
There's too many people!
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(Video) Glas: Previše je ljudi ovde!
Previše je ljudi!
Previše je ljudi!
02:54
Voice: OK, he's having a seizure.
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Glas: Ok, ima napad.
03:11
Voice: We need an ambulance.
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Glas: Treba nam hitna pomoć.
03:14
Nonny de la Peña: So the man on the right,
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Noni de la Penja: Dakle, čovek s desna,
03:16
for him, he's walking around the body.
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što se njega tiče, on hoda oko tela.
03:18
For him, he's in the room with that body.
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On je u sobi sa tim telom.
03:21
Like, that guy is at his feet.
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Ovaj čovek mu je pod nogama.
03:23
And even though,
through his peripheral vision,
through his peripheral vision,
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I čak i tada, preko perifernog vida,
on može da vidi da je u laboratoriji,
03:25
he can see that he's in this lab space,
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03:27
he should be able to see
that he's not actually on the street,
that he's not actually on the street,
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trebalo bi da može da vidi
da nije stvarno na ulici,
da nije stvarno na ulici,
03:32
but he feels like he's there
with those people.
with those people.
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ali oseća se kao da jeste tamo
sa svim tim ljudima.
sa svim tim ljudima.
03:35
He's very cautious not to step on this guy
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Vodi računa da ne stane na ovog čoveka,
03:37
who isn't really there, right?
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koji zapravo i nije stvarno tu, zar ne?
03:39
So that piece ended up
going to Sundance in 2012,
going to Sundance in 2012,
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Eto taj rad je 2012. godine
završio na festivalu Sandens,
završio na festivalu Sandens,
03:42
a kind of amazing thing,
and it was the first virtual reality film
and it was the first virtual reality film
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što je neverovatna stvar, i to je bio
prvi film u virtuelnoj stvarnosti
prvi film u virtuelnoj stvarnosti
03:46
ever, basically.
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svih vremena, zapravo.
03:49
And when we went, I was really terrified.
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I kada je krenulo,
bila sam prestravljena.
bila sam prestravljena.
03:51
I didn't really know
how people were going to react
how people were going to react
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Nisam baš znala kako će ljudi reagovati
03:53
and what was going to happen.
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i šta će se dešavati.
03:54
And we showed up
with this duct-taped pair of goggles.
with this duct-taped pair of goggles.
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I tako smo se pojavili sa ovim
improvizovanim naočarima.
improvizovanim naočarima.
03:57
(Video) Oh, you're crying.
You're crying. Gina, you're crying.
You're crying. Gina, you're crying.
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(Video) O, pa ti plačeš.
Plačeš. Đina, ti plačeš.
Plačeš. Đina, ti plačeš.
04:01
So you can hear
the surprise in my voice, right?
the surprise in my voice, right?
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Možete da čujete
iznenađenje u mom glasu, zar ne?
iznenađenje u mom glasu, zar ne?
04:04
And this kind of reaction ended up being
the kind of reaction we saw
the kind of reaction we saw
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I ova vrsta reakcije je završila
postavši reakcija koju smo viđali
postavši reakcija koju smo viđali
04:08
over and over and over:
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iznova i iznova:
04:11
people down on the ground
trying to comfort the seizure victim,
trying to comfort the seizure victim,
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ljudi na zemlji koji bi pokušavali
da uteše žrtvu napada
da uteše žrtvu napada
04:14
trying to whisper something into his ear
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da mu šapnu nešto na uho,
04:16
or in some way help,
even though they couldn't.
even though they couldn't.
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ili na neki način pomognu,
čak iako nisu mogli.
čak iako nisu mogli.
04:20
And I had a lot of people
come out of that piece saying,
come out of that piece saying,
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I mnogi su nakon tog snimka govorili:
„O Bože, bio sam tako frustriran.
04:23
"Oh my God, I was so frustrated.
I couldn't help the guy,"
I couldn't help the guy,"
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Nisam mogao da pomognem čoveku",
i odnosili su to sa sobom kroz život.
04:26
and take that back into their lives.
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04:28
So after this piece was made,
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I tako, nakon što je ovaj rad napravljen,
04:32
the dean of the cinema school at USC,
the University of Southern California,
the University of Southern California,
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dekan fakulteta filmske umetnosti
na Univerzitetu u Južnoj Kaliforniji
na Univerzitetu u Južnoj Kaliforniji
doneo je rad pred rukovodioce
Svetskog ekonomskog foruma
Svetskog ekonomskog foruma
04:36
brought in the head of the World
Economic Forum to try "Hunger,"
Economic Forum to try "Hunger,"
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da isprobaju „Glad",
i kada je skinuo naočare,
i kada je skinuo naočare,
04:40
and he took off the goggles,
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04:41
and he commissioned
a piece about Syria on the spot.
a piece about Syria on the spot.
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na licu mesta je poručio rad o Siriji.
04:44
And I really wanted to do something
about Syrian refugee kids,
about Syrian refugee kids,
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I zaista sam želela da uradim nešto
o sirijskoj deci izbeglicama,
o sirijskoj deci izbeglicama,
04:47
because children have been the worst
affected by the Syrian civil war.
affected by the Syrian civil war.
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jer deca su najugroženija
u sirijskom građanskom ratu.
u sirijskom građanskom ratu.
Poslala sam tim na granicu Iraka da u
izbegličkim kampovima prikuplja materijal.
izbegličkim kampovima prikuplja materijal.
04:52
I sent a team to the border of Iraq
to record material at refugee camps,
to record material at refugee camps,
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04:56
basically an area I wouldn't
send a team now,
send a team now,
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U suštini, to je oblast
u koju ih sada ne bih poslala,
u koju ih sada ne bih poslala,
04:59
as that's where ISIS is really operating.
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jer je tamo ID stvarno aktivna.
05:02
And then we also recreated a street scene
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I tada smo takođe rekreirali uličnu scenu
05:05
in which a young girl is singing
and a bomb goes off.
and a bomb goes off.
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u kojoj se vidi mlada devojka koja peva,
kada dođe do eksplozije.
kada dođe do eksplozije.
05:09
Now, when you're
in the middle of that scene
in the middle of that scene
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Kada se nađete u sred ovakve scene
05:11
and you hear those sounds,
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i čujete te zvuke,
05:14
and you see the injured around you,
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i vidite ranjenike oko sebe,
05:16
it's an incredibly scary and real feeling.
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to je neverovatno strašan
i stvaran osećaj.
i stvaran osećaj.
05:19
I've had individuals who have been
involved in real bombings tell me
involved in real bombings tell me
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Bilo je i pojedinaca koji su preživeli
pravo bombardovanje i svedočili
pravo bombardovanje i svedočili
05:23
that it evokes the same kind of fear.
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da je to u njima probudilo
istu vrstu straha.
istu vrstu straha.
05:28
[The civil war in Syria may seem far away]
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(Građanski rat u Siriji
možda izgleda kao da je daleko]
možda izgleda kao da je daleko]
[sve dok ga ne osetite na svojoj koži.)
05:34
[until you experience it yourself.]
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05:41
(Girl singing)
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(Devojka peva)
05:48
(Explosion)
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(Eksplozija)
05:50
[Project Syria]
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(Projekat Sirija)
05:55
[A virtual reality experience]
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(iskustvo virtuelne stvarnosti)
05:58
NP: We were then invited to take the piece
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NP: Zatim smo pozvani
da rad prikažemo
da rad prikažemo
u Muzeju Viktorije i Alberta u Londonu.
06:00
to the Victoria and Albert
Museum in London.
Museum in London.
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Nismo imali nikakvu reklamu.
06:02
And it wasn't advertised.
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06:04
And we were put in this tapestry room.
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Rad je izložen u sobi sa tapiserijama.
06:06
There was no press about it,
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Nije pisano o njemu u štampi,
06:07
so anybody who happened to walk
into the museum to visit it that day
into the museum to visit it that day
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pa ko god da bi došao u muzej tog dana
06:11
would see us with these crazy lights.
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mogao je da vidi sva ta luda svetla.
06:13
You know, maybe they would want to see
the old storytelling of the tapestries.
the old storytelling of the tapestries.
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Znate, možda su želeli da vide
stare priče na tapiserijama.
stare priče na tapiserijama.
06:17
They were confronted
by our virtual reality cameras.
by our virtual reality cameras.
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Bili su suočeni sa našim
kamerama virtuelne realnosti.
kamerama virtuelne realnosti.
06:20
But a lot of people tried it,
and over a five-day run
and over a five-day run
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No, mnogi ljudi su odlučili da probaju,
i nakon 5 dana projekcije
i nakon 5 dana projekcije
06:23
we ended up with 54 pages
of guest book comments,
of guest book comments,
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imali smo 54 strane komentara
u knjizi utisaka,
u knjizi utisaka,
06:28
and we were told by the curators there
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i kustosi su nam rekli
06:30
that they'd never seen such an outpouring.
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da ikada nisu videli takve izlive emocija.
06:33
Things like, "It's so real,"
"Absolutely believable,"
"Absolutely believable,"
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Pisali su stvari tipa: „Tako je stvarno",
„Potpuno uverljivo",
„Potpuno uverljivo",
06:37
or, of course, the one
that I was excited about,
that I was excited about,
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ili naravno,
onaj koji me najviše oduševio:
onaj koji me najviše oduševio:
06:40
"A real feeling as if you were
in the middle of something
in the middle of something
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„Stvaran osećaj,
baš kao da sam u sred nečega
baš kao da sam u sred nečega
06:43
that you normally see on the TV news."
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što inače viđamo na vestima."
06:46
So, it works, right? This stuff works.
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Dakle, radi, zar ne?
Ovo stvarno funkcioniše.
Ovo stvarno funkcioniše.
06:50
And it doesn't really matter
where you're from or what age you are --
where you're from or what age you are --
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I nije zapravo važno odakle ste
ili koje ste godište -
ili koje ste godište -
06:54
it's really evocative.
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jer ovo zaista može da izazove reakciju.
06:56
Now, don't get me wrong -- I'm not saying
that when you're in a piece
that when you're in a piece
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Sad, nemojte me pogrešno shvatiti -
ne kažem da tokom ovoga
ne kažem da tokom ovoga
07:00
you forget that you're here.
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zaboravite gde ste.
Ispostavlja se da možete da se osećate
kao da ste istovremeno na dva mesta.
kao da ste istovremeno na dva mesta.
07:03
But it turns out we can feel
like we're in two places at once.
like we're in two places at once.
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07:06
We can have what I call
this duality of presence,
this duality of presence,
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Možemo doživeti dualnost prisustva,
07:09
and I think that's what allows me
to tap into these feelings of empathy.
to tap into these feelings of empathy.
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i msilim da mi baš to dozvoljava
da probudim taj osećaj empatije.
da probudim taj osećaj empatije.
07:14
Right?
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Zar ne?
07:16
So that means, of course,
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To znači, naravno,
07:19
that I have to be very cautious
about creating these pieces.
about creating these pieces.
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da moram da budem veoma oprezna
kada stvaram ova dela.
kada stvaram ova dela.
07:24
I have to really follow
best journalistic practices
best journalistic practices
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Moram zaista da ispratim
najbolju novinarsku praksu
najbolju novinarsku praksu
07:28
and make sure that these powerful stories
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i uverim se da su ove moćne priče
07:30
are built with integrity.
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sazdane s integritetom.
07:32
If we don't capture
the material ourselves,
the material ourselves,
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Ako sav materijal ne prikupimo sami,
07:34
we have to be extremely exacting
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moramo da budemo veoma pažljivi
07:39
about figuring out the provenance
and where did this stuff come from
and where did this stuff come from
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u pogledu porekla informacija
07:42
and is it authentic?
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i njihove autentičnosti.
07:44
Let me give you an example.
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Da vam dam primer.
07:45
With this Trayvon Martin case,
this is a guy, a kid,
this is a guy, a kid,
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Primer je u vezi sa slučajem
Trejvona Martina,
Trejvona Martina,
07:48
who was 17 years old and he bought
soda and a candy at a store,
soda and a candy at a store,
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koji je imao 17 godina.
Kupio je sok i slatkiše u prodavnici,
Kupio je sok i slatkiše u prodavnici,
07:52
and on his way home he was tracked
by a neighborhood watchman
by a neighborhood watchman
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i na putu do kuće pratio ga je
pripadnik građanske straže
pripadnik građanske straže
07:56
named George Zimmerman
who ended up shooting and killing him.
who ended up shooting and killing him.
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po imenu Džordž Zimerman
koji ga je na kraju upucao i ubio.
koji ga je na kraju upucao i ubio.
Da bismo stvorili ovo delo,
07:59
To make that piece,
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08:00
we got the architectural drawings
of the entire complex,
of the entire complex,
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uzeli smo arhitektonske nacrte
celog kompleksa,
celog kompleksa,
08:04
and we rebuilt the entire scene
inside and out, based on those drawings.
inside and out, based on those drawings.
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i na osnovu njih izgradili
celu scenu i spolja i iznutra.
celu scenu i spolja i iznutra.
08:09
All of the action
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Sve informacije o akciji
08:10
is informed by the real 911
recorded calls to the police.
recorded calls to the police.
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smo dobili sa snimljenih poziva
upućenih policiji.
upućenih policiji.
08:16
And interestingly, we broke
some news with this story.
some news with this story.
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Zanimljivo, uspeli smo ovom pričom
da saopštimo nove vesti.
da saopštimo nove vesti.
08:19
The forensic house that did the audio
reconstruction, Primeau Productions,
reconstruction, Primeau Productions,
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Forenzičari produkcijske kuće
zadužene za rekonstrukciju zvuka
zadužene za rekonstrukciju zvuka
08:23
they say that they would testify
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kažu da bi svedočili na sudu
08:25
that George Zimmerman,
when he got out of the car,
when he got out of the car,
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da je Džordž Zimerman,
kada je izašao iz kola,
kada je izašao iz kola,
08:27
he cocked his gun before he went
to give chase to Martin.
to give chase to Martin.
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već bio otkočio pištolj
pre nego što je pojurio za Martinom.
pre nego što je pojurio za Martinom.
Možete videti
08:32
So you can see that
the basic tenets of journalism,
the basic tenets of journalism,
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da se osnovna načela novinarstva
08:35
they don't really change here, right?
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ovde baš i ne menjaju, zar ne?
08:37
We're still following the same principles
that we would always.
that we would always.
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I dalje se prate ista načela
koja bi se i inače pratila.
koja bi se i inače pratila.
08:40
What is different is the sense
of being on scene,
of being on scene,
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Ono što je drugačije
jeste utisak da ste na terenu,
jeste utisak da ste na terenu,
bilo da posmatrate
kako čovek kolabira od gladi,
kako čovek kolabira od gladi,
08:44
whether you're watching
a guy collapse from hunger
a guy collapse from hunger
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bilo da se nađete usred eksplozije.
08:46
or feeling like you're
in the middle of a bomb scene.
in the middle of a bomb scene.
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08:48
And this is kind of what has driven me
forward with these pieces,
forward with these pieces,
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To je ono što me je vuklo napred
u ovom radu,
u ovom radu,
08:53
and thinking about how to make them.
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teralo da mislim o tome
kako da ove radove napravim.
kako da ove radove napravim.
08:55
We're trying to make this, obviously,
beyond the headset, more available.
beyond the headset, more available.
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Pokušavamo da ovo učinimo više dostupnim.
08:59
We're creating mobile pieces
like the Trayvon Martin piece.
like the Trayvon Martin piece.
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Stvaramo mobilne radove,
kao što je slučaj Trejvona Martina.
kao što je slučaj Trejvona Martina.
09:02
And these things have had impact.
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I ove stvari su imale uticaja.
09:06
I've had Americans tell me
that they've donated,
that they've donated,
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Amerikanci su mi rekli da su donirali
novac za sirijsku decu izbeglice
novac za sirijsku decu izbeglice
09:09
direct deductions from their bank account,
money to go to Syrian children refugees.
money to go to Syrian children refugees.
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što je direktan odbitak
sa njihovih bankovnih računa.
sa njihovih bankovnih računa.
09:13
And "Hunger in LA," well,
it's helped start
it's helped start
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I „Glad" je pomogla da se pokrene
09:15
a new form of doing journalism
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novi oblik novinarstva
09:18
that I think is going to join
all the other normal platforms
all the other normal platforms
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za koji mislim da će se pridružiti
ostalim uobičajenim platformama
ostalim uobičajenim platformama
09:21
in the future.
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u budućnosti.
09:22
Thank you.
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Hvala vam.
09:23
(Applause)
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(Aplauz)
ABOUT THE SPEAKER
Nonny de la Peña - Virtual reality pioneerNonny de la Peña uses new, immersive media to tell stories that create empathy in readers and viewers.
Why you should listen
As the CEO of Emblematic Group, Nonny de la Peña uses cutting-edge technologies to tell stories — both fictional and news-based — that create intense, empathic engagement on the part of viewers. She has been called “The Godmother of Virtual Reality” by Engadget, while Fast Company named her “One of the People Who Made the World More Creative” for her pioneering work in immersive journalism.
A former correspondent for Newsweek, de la Peña has more than 20 years of award-winning experience in print, film and TV. Her virtual-reality work has been featured by the BBC, Mashable, Vice, Wired and many others, and been screened around the globe at museums and gaming conventions. De la Peña is an Annenberg Fellow at the University of Southern California’s School of Cinematic Arts.
More profile about the speakerA former correspondent for Newsweek, de la Peña has more than 20 years of award-winning experience in print, film and TV. Her virtual-reality work has been featured by the BBC, Mashable, Vice, Wired and many others, and been screened around the globe at museums and gaming conventions. De la Peña is an Annenberg Fellow at the University of Southern California’s School of Cinematic Arts.
Nonny de la Peña | Speaker | TED.com