TED2007
Jonathan Drori: What we think we know
Džonatan Drori (Jonathan Drori) o onome što mislimo da znamo
Filmed:
Readability: 3.3
1,142,222 views
Starting with four basic questions (that you may be surprised to find you can't answer), Jonathan Drori looks at the gaps in our knowledge -- and specifically, what we don't about science that we might think we do.
Jonathan Drori - Educator
Jonathan Drori commissioned the BBC's very first websites, one highlight in a long career devoted to online culture and educational media -- and understanding how we learn. Full bio
Jonathan Drori commissioned the BBC's very first websites, one highlight in a long career devoted to online culture and educational media -- and understanding how we learn. Full bio
Double-click the English transcript below to play the video.
00:18
I'm going to try and explain why it is that perhaps
0
0
4000
Pokušaću da vam objasnim zašto mi u stvari
00:22
we don't understand as much as we think we do.
1
4000
2000
možda baš i ne razumemo onoliko koliko mislimo da znamo.
00:24
I'd like to begin with four questions.
2
6000
3000
Počeo bih sa četiri pitanja.
00:27
This is not some sort of cultural thing for the time of year.
3
9000
3000
Nije u pitanju neka kulturološka stvar za ovaj period godine.
00:30
That's an in-joke, by the way.
4
12000
2000
To je interna šala, uzgred budi rečeno.
00:32
But these four questions, actually,
5
14000
3000
Čak i ljudi koji znaju dosta o nauci
00:35
are ones that people who even know quite a lot about science find quite hard.
6
17000
3000
ne mogu lako da odgovore na ova četiri pitanja.
00:38
And they're questions that I've asked of science television producers,
7
20000
5000
Ta pitanja sam postavio urednicima naučnih programa na televiziji,
00:43
of audiences of science educators --
8
25000
3000
potom nastavnicima nauke,
00:46
so that's science teachers -- and also of seven-year-olds,
9
28000
4000
učiteljima nauke- a takođe i sedmogodišnjacima,
00:50
and I find that the seven-year-olds do marginally better
10
32000
3000
i zaključio sam da sedmogišnjaci daju malo bolje odgovore
00:53
than the other audiences, which is somewhat surprising.
11
35000
2000
u odnosu na drugu publiku, što je iznenađujuće.
00:55
So the first question, and you might want to write this down,
12
37000
3000
Prvo pitanje koje možda želite da zapišete
00:58
either on a bit of paper, physically, or a virtual piece of paper
13
40000
4000
ili fizički, na parčetu papira, ili na zamišljenom parčetu papira
01:02
in your head. And, for viewers at home, you can try this as well.
14
44000
3000
u vašoj glavi. Oni koji prenos gledaju kod kuće, i vi to pokušajte.
01:05
A little seed weighs next to nothing and a tree weighs a lot, right?
15
47000
5000
Malo seme teži skoro pa ništa, a drvo je veoma teško, zar ne?
01:10
I think we agree on that. Where does the tree get the stuff that makes up this chair,
16
52000
6000
Mislim da se slažemo oko toga. Gde drvo dođe do materijala od kojeg je napravljena ova stolica?
01:16
right? Where does all this stuff come from?
17
58000
3000
Odakle sve ovo dolazi?
01:19
(Knocks)
18
61000
1000
(kuca)
01:20
And your next question is, can you light a little torch-bulb
19
62000
6000
Sledeće pitanje za vas: da li možete da upalite malu sobnu sijalicu
01:26
with a battery, a bulb and one piece of wire?
20
68000
5000
uz pomoć baterije, sijalice i parčeta žice?
01:31
And would you be able to, kind of, draw a -- you don't have to draw
21
73000
2000
I da li biste mogli da nacrtate tu šemu, ne stvarno,
01:33
the diagram, but would you be able to draw the diagram,
22
75000
2000
nego, da li biste znali da nacrtate dijagram
01:35
if you had to do it? Or would you just say,
23
77000
2000
ukoliko biste morali? Ili biste samo rekli,
01:37
that's actually not possible?
24
79000
3000
da je to ustvari nemoguće?
01:40
The third question is, why is it hotter in summer than in winter?
25
82000
4000
Treće pitanje, zašto je toplije leti nego zimi?
01:44
I think we can probably agree that it is hotter in summer than in winter,
26
86000
5000
Mislim da se slažemo da su leta toplija od zima,
01:49
but why? And finally, would you be able to --
27
91000
6000
ali zašto? Na kraju, da li biste bili u stanju
01:55
and you can sort of scribble it, if you like --
28
97000
2000
i mogli biste da nažvrljate to, ukoliko želite--
01:57
scribble a plan diagram of the solar system,
29
99000
3000
da nažvrljate dijagram solarnog sistema,
02:00
showing the shape of the planets' orbits?
30
102000
4000
i da pokažete oblik orbita planeta?
02:04
Would you be able to do that?
31
106000
1000
Da li biste mogli to da uradite?
02:05
And if you can, just scribble a pattern.
32
107000
5000
Ukoliko možete, samo nažvrljajte tu šemu.
02:10
OK. Now, children get their ideas not from teachers,
33
112000
6000
Okej. Deca dolaze do svojih ideja ne od nastavnika,
02:16
as teachers often think, but actually from common sense,
34
118000
3000
kao što nastavnici vole da misle, već se koriste zdravim razumom,
02:19
from experience of the world around them,
35
121000
2000
uče iz doživljavanja sveta oko sebe
02:21
from all the things that go on between them and their peers,
36
123000
4000
i svega što se dešava između njih i njihovih drugara,
02:25
and their carers, and their parents, and all of that. Experience.
37
127000
5000
njihovih pazitelja, roditelja, i svih ostalih. Iz iskustva.
02:30
And one of the great experts in this field, of course, was, bless him,
38
132000
5000
I, naravno, jedan od najvećih stručnjaka u ovoj oblasti bio je, blagosloven bio,
02:35
Cardinal Wolsey. Be very careful what you get into people's heads
39
137000
4000
Kardinal Volsij. Budite veoma oprezni oko toga šta plasirate u glave ljudi,
02:39
because it's virtually impossible to shift it afterwards, right?
40
141000
3000
jer je bukvalno nemoguće promeniti te misli posle, u redu?
02:42
(Laughter)
41
144000
3000
(smeh)
02:45
I'm not quite sure how he died, actually.
42
147000
2000
U stvari, nisam baš siguran kako je umro.
02:47
Was he beheaded in the end, or hung?
43
149000
2000
Da li mu je odrubljena glava na kraju, ili je obešen?
02:49
(Laughter)
44
151000
1000
(smeh)
02:50
Now, those questions, which, of course, you've got right,
45
152000
2000
Vratimo se ovim pitanjima na koje ste naravno tačno odgovorili,
02:52
and you haven't been conferring, and so on.
46
154000
2000
i niste se konsultovali, i tako dalje.
02:54
And I -- you know, normally, I would pick people out and humiliate,
47
156000
3000
Znate, ja bih inače prozivao ljude i ponižavao ih,
02:57
but maybe not in this instance.
48
159000
2000
ali to možda nije prikladno sada.
02:59
A little seed weighs a lot and, basically, all this stuff,
49
161000
4000
Malo seme je zaista teško u suštini i sve ovo,
03:03
99 percent of this stuff, came out of the air.
50
165000
3000
99% ove materije dolazi iz vazduha.
03:06
Now, I guarantee that about 85 percent of you, or maybe it's fewer at TED,
51
168000
4000
Ja mogu da garantujem da je 85% prisutnih, ili možda manje ovde na TED-u,
03:10
will have said it comes out of the ground. And some people,
52
172000
3000
pomislilo da ta materija dolazi iz zemlje. Neki ljudi
03:13
probably two of you, will come up and argue with me afterwards,
53
175000
3000
verovatno dvoje iz publike bi posle došlo ovde i rapravljalo se sa mnom,
03:16
and say that actually, it comes out of the ground.
54
178000
2000
i tvrdili bi da u stvari ta materija dolazi iz zemlje.
03:18
Now, if that was true, we'd have trucks going round the country,
55
180000
2000
Kada bi to bilo tačno tada bi kamioni širom države
03:20
filling people's gardens in with soil, it'd be a fantastic business.
56
182000
3000
dopunjavali zemljištem bašte ljudi, to bi bio odličan posao.
03:23
But, actually, we don't do that.
57
185000
2000
Ali, to se zapravo ne dešava.
03:25
The mass of this comes out of the air.
58
187000
3000
Materija dolazi iz vazduha.
03:28
Now, I passed all my biology exams in Britain.
59
190000
4000
Ja sam položio sve svoje ispite iz biologije u Britaniji.
03:32
I passed them really well, but I still came out of school
60
194000
2000
Dobio sam dobre ocene na tim testovima, ali i dalje sam po završenoj školi
03:34
thinking that that stuff came out of the ground.
61
196000
3000
mislio da ova materija dolazi iz zemljišta.
03:37
Second one: can you light a little torch-bulb with a battery bulb and one piece of wire?
62
199000
4000
Drugo pitanje: da li možete da upalite malu svetiljku uz pomoć baterije, sijalice i parčeta žice?
03:41
Yes, you can, and I'll show you in a second how to do that.
63
203000
2000
Da, možete, i za koji sekund ću vam pokazati i kako.
03:43
Now, I have some rather bad news,
64
205000
2000
Imam poprilično loše vesti za vas.
03:45
which is that I had a piece of video that I was about to show you,
65
207000
3000
Doneo sam jedan snimak koji sam želeo da vam pokažem,
03:48
which unfortunately -- the sound doesn't work in this room,
66
210000
3000
ali zvuk nažalost ne radi u ovoj sobi
03:51
so I'm going to describe to you, in true "Monty Python" fashion,
67
213000
3000
tako da ću vam opisati na montipajtonovski način
03:54
what happens in the video. And in the video, a group of researchers
68
216000
5000
šta se na tom snimku dešava. Grupa istraživača na snimku
03:59
go to MIT on graduation day.
69
221000
2000
odlazi na MIT na dan završne ceremonije.
04:01
We chose MIT because, obviously, that's a very long way away
70
223000
3000
Izabrali smo MIT jer je očigledno veoma udaljen odavde
04:04
from here, and you wouldn't mind too much,
71
226000
2000
i ne bi vam to previše smetalo
04:06
but it sort of works the same way in Britain
72
228000
3000
ali to funkcioniše na sličan način i u Britaniji
04:09
and in the West Coast of the USA.
73
231000
2000
i na zapadnoj obali Amerike.
04:11
And we asked them these questions, and we asked those questions
74
233000
4000
Postavili smo im ova pitanja,
04:15
of science graduates, and they couldn't answer them.
75
237000
2000
diplomcima iz nauke, i nisu znali da na njih odgovore.
04:17
And so, there's a whole lot of people saying,
76
239000
2000
Bilo je puno ljudi koji su govorili:
04:19
"I'd be very surprised if you told me that this came out of the air.
77
241000
2000
"Zaista bih se iznenadio kada bi mi rekao da je ovo nastalo od vazduha.
04:21
That's very surprising to me." And those are science graduates.
78
243000
4000
To me veoma iznenađuje." To su ljudi koji studiraju nauku.
04:25
And we intercut it with, "We are the premier science university in the world,"
79
247000
3000
Onda ih mi presečemo: "Mi smo najbolji univerzitet nauke na svetu",
04:28
because of British-like hubris.
80
250000
2000
jer je to tipično za britansku nabeđenost.
04:30
(Laughter)
81
252000
1000
(smeh)
04:31
And when we gave graduate engineers that question,
82
253000
3000
Kada smo inženjerima diplomcima postavili to pitanja
04:34
they said it couldn't be done.
83
256000
2000
rekli su da se to ne može izvesti.
04:36
And when we gave them a battery, and a piece of wire, and a bulb,
84
258000
4000
Kada smo im dali bateriju, i parče žice i sijalicu,
04:40
and said, "Can you do it?" They couldn't do it. Right?
85
262000
4000
i rekli: "Da li možete to da uradite?" Nisu mogli. U redu?
04:44
And that's no different from Imperial College in London, by the way,
86
266000
3000
Slično je i na "Imperial College"-u u Londonu, uzgred budi rečeno,
04:47
it's not some sort of anti-American thing going on.
87
269000
4000
nije ovo neka kampanja protiv Amerike.
04:51
As if. Now, the reason this matters is we pay lots and lots of money
88
273000
6000
Nije nego. Ovo je važno zato što jako mnogo novca ulažemo
04:57
for teaching people -- we might as well get it right.
89
279000
2000
u obrazovanje - onda bismo i mogli to da uradimo kako treba.
04:59
And there are also some societal reasons
90
281000
2000
Postoje i društveni razlozi usled kojih bi trebalo
05:01
why we might want people to understand what it is that's happening
91
283000
4000
da želimo da ljudi zaista shvate šta se dešava u procesu fotosinteze.
05:05
in photosynthesis. For example, one half of the carbon equation
92
287000
3000
Na primer, prvi deo jednačine kruženja ugljenika
05:08
is how much we emit, and the other half of the carbon equation,
93
290000
3000
jeste koliko gasa izbacimo u atmosferu, a njen drugi deo,
05:11
as I'm very conscious as a trustee of Kew,
94
293000
2000
jer sam veoma savestan kao član Kju odbora (kraljevske botaničke bašte)
05:13
is how much things soak up, and they soak up carbon dioxide out of the atmosphere.
95
295000
5000
je koliko se ugljen dioksida apsorbuje, preuzme iz atmosfere.
05:18
That's what plants actually do for a living.
96
300000
3000
To je ono čime se biljke u principu bave.
05:21
And, for any Finnish people in the audience, this is a Finnish pun:
97
303000
3000
Za Fince u publici, ovo je finska krilatica:
05:24
we are, both literally and metaphorically, skating on thin ice
98
306000
5000
i bukvalno i metaforično mi klizamo po tankom ledu
05:29
if we don't understand that kind of thing.
99
311000
3000
ukoliko ne razumemo ove stvari.
05:32
Now, here's how you do the battery and the bulb.
100
314000
2000
Ovako ćete rešiti problem baterije i sijalice.
05:34
It's so easy, isn't it? Of course, you all knew that.
101
316000
4000
Tako je lako, zar ne? Naravno, svi ste to znali.
05:38
But if you haven't played with a battery and a bulb,
102
320000
2000
Ali ukoliko se niste igrali sa baterijom i sijalicom,
05:40
if you've only seen a circuit diagram,
103
322000
2000
ukoliko ste samo videli strujne šablone,
05:42
you might not be able to do that, and that's one of the problems.
104
324000
4000
onda možda niste u stanju to da uradite, i to je jedan od problema.
05:46
So, why is it hotter in summer than in winter?
105
328000
2000
Zašto je toplije leti nego zimi?
05:48
We learn, as children, that you get closer to something that's hot,
106
330000
3000
Mi još kao deca naučimo da se ispečemo ako se
05:51
and it burns you. It's a very powerful bit of learning,
107
333000
3000
približimo nečemu što je vruće. To je veoma moćan način učenja,
05:54
and it happens pretty early on.
108
336000
2000
i dešava prilično rano u životu.
05:56
By extension, we think to ourselves, "Why it's hotter in summer than in winter
109
338000
3000
Po toj logici mi rezonujemo ovako: "Sigurno je toplije leti nego zimi
05:59
must be because we're closer to the Sun."
110
341000
3000
jer smo bliži Suncu."
06:02
I promise you that most of you will have got that.
111
344000
2000
Siguran sam da je većina to pomislila.
06:04
Oh, you're all shaking your heads,
112
346000
1000
Oho, odrično mašete glavom,
06:05
but only a few of you are shaking your heads very firmly.
113
347000
3000
ali samo vas nekoliko zaista odlučno maše glavom.
06:08
Other ones are kind of going like this. All right.
114
350000
2000
Ostali to rade nekako ovako. U redu.
06:10
It's hotter in summer than in winter because the rays from the Sun
115
352000
3000
Toplije je leti nego zimi jer su sunčevi zraci
06:13
are spread out more, right, because of the tilt of the Earth.
116
355000
4000
više rasprostranjeni, zar ne, usled nagiba Zemlje.
06:17
And if you think the tilt is tilting us closer, no, it isn't.
117
359000
3000
Ukoliko mislite da nas nagib približiva, ne, ne čini to.
06:20
The Sun is 93 million miles away, and we're tilting like this, right?
118
362000
4000
Sunce je udaljeno 150 miliona km, a naš nagib se pomera ovako, zar ne?
06:24
It makes no odds. In fact, in the Northern Hemisphere,
119
366000
3000
To nema smisla. Ustvari smo mi na severnoj hemisferi
06:27
we're further from the Sun in summer,
120
369000
3000
udaljeniji od Sunca tokom leta,
06:30
as it happens, but it makes no odds, the difference.
121
372000
3000
igrom slučaja, ali to ne pravi razliku.
06:33
OK, now, the scribble of the diagram of the solar system.
122
375000
3000
Okej, a sada, vaš nažvrljani dijagram solarnog sistema.
06:36
If you believe, as most of you probably do,
123
378000
2000
Ukoliko mislite, a većina vas sigurno to misli,
06:38
that it's hotter in summer than in winter because we're closer to the Sun,
124
380000
2000
da je toplije leti nego zimi zato što smo bliži Suncu,
06:40
you must have drawn an ellipse.
125
382000
2000
sigurno ste nacrtali elipsu.
06:42
Right? That would explain it, right?
126
384000
2000
Zar ne? To bi objasnilo sve, zar ne?
06:44
Except, in your -- you're nodding -- now, in your ellipse,
127
386000
4000
Sem ako, u vašoj - a vi potvrdno klimate glavom, u vašoj elipsi
06:48
have you thought, "Well, what happens during the night?"
128
390000
2000
da li ste pomislili: "Pa, šta se dešava u toku noći?"
06:50
Between Australia and here, right, they've got summer
129
392000
4000
Razmislite o Australiji i ovom mestu, tamo je leto,
06:54
and we've got winter, and what --
130
396000
3000
a ovde je zima, i šta onda -
06:57
does the Earth kind of rush towards the Sun at night,
131
399000
3000
da li Zemlja malo požuri ka Suncu u toku noći,
07:00
and then rush back again? I mean, it's a very strange thing going on,
132
402000
3000
a onda se brzo vrati ponovo? Mislim da se tu dešava veoma čudna stvar
07:03
and we hold these two models in our head, of what's right and what isn't right,
133
405000
4000
a mi imamo ta dva modela u našoj glavi, šta je ispravno i šta nije,
07:07
and we do that, as human beings, in all sorts of fields.
134
409000
4000
mi to radimo, svi ljudi, u svim mogućim poljima.
07:11
So, here's Copernicus' view of what the solar system looked like as a plan.
135
413000
5000
Ovo je Kopernikov doživljaj solarnog sistema u vidu plana.
07:16
That's pretty much what you should have on your piece of paper. Right?
136
418000
3000
Ovo je nacrt koji bi trebalo da imate nacrtan na svom parčetu papira. Zar ne?
07:19
And this is NASA's view. They're stunningly similar.
137
421000
3000
Ovo je pogled NASA-e. Neverovatno su slični.
07:22
I hope you notice the coincidence here.
138
424000
3000
Nadam se da uočavate podudarnost.
07:25
What would you do if you knew that people had this misconception,
139
427000
4000
Šta biste vi uradili kada biste znali da je pogrešna predstava ljudi,
07:29
right, in their heads, of elliptical orbits
140
431000
3000
znate, u njihovim glavama, o eliptičnim putanjama
07:32
caused by our experiences as children?
141
434000
2000
uslovljena njihovim iskustvima iz detinjstva?
07:34
What sort of diagram would you show them of the solar system,
142
436000
2000
Kakvu vrstu dijagrama solarnog sistema biste im
07:36
to show that it's not really like that?
143
438000
2000
vi pokazali kako biste im objasnili da nije zaista tako?
07:38
You'd show them something like this, wouldn't you?
144
440000
2000
Pokazali biste im nešto što izgleda ovako, zar ne?
07:40
It's a plan, looking down from above.
145
442000
1000
To je šablon, posmatran iz ptičje perspektive.
07:41
But, no, look what I found in the textbooks.
146
443000
3000
Pogledajte sada šta sam pronašao u udžbenicima.
07:44
That's what you show people, right? These are from textbooks,
147
446000
3000
To je ono što pokazujete ljudima, zar ne? Ove slike su preuzete iz knjiga,
07:47
from websites, educational websites --
148
449000
2000
sa internet prezentacija, obrazovnih veb-sajtova -
07:49
and almost anything you pick up is like that.
149
451000
2000
skoro sve što nađete izgleda ovako.
07:51
And the reason it's like that is because it's dead boring
150
453000
2000
Razlog što je to tako je taj što je jako dosadno
07:53
to have a load of concentric circles,
151
455000
2000
prikazati gomilu koncentričnih krugova,
07:55
whereas that's much more exciting, to look at something at that angle,
152
457000
3000
dok je mnogo zanimljivije da se nešto posmatra iz tog ugla,
07:58
isn't it? Right? And by doing it at that angle,
153
460000
3000
zar ne? U redu? Predstavljajući to iz tog ugla,
08:01
if you've got that misconception in your head, then that
154
463000
2000
ukoliko ste usvojili taj pogrešan princip u svojoj glavi,
08:03
two-dimensional representation of a three-dimensional thing will be ellipses.
155
465000
5000
tada će dvodimenzionalni prikaz trodimenzionalnih stvari izgledati kao elipse.
08:08
So you've -- it's crap, isn't it really? As we say.
156
470000
4000
Tako da vi-- to je glupost, zar ne? Kao što kažemo.
08:12
So, these mental models -- we look for evidence that reinforces our models.
157
474000
3000
Ove mentalne slike-- mi tražimo dokaze koji podržavaju naše predstave.
08:15
We do this, of course, with matters of race, and politics, and everything else,
158
477000
4000
Istu stvar činimo sa rasama, politikom, i svim ostalim,
08:19
and we do it in science as well. So we look, just look --
159
481000
2000
to činimo u nauci takođe. Tako da mi tražimo, samo tražimo--
08:21
and scientists do it, constantly -- we look for evidence
160
483000
3000
i naučnici to stalno rade - tražimo dokaze
08:24
that reinforces our models, and some folks are just all too able
161
486000
3000
koji podržavaju naše modele, i neki ljudi su zaista veoma sposobni
08:27
and willing to provide the evidence that reinforces the models.
162
489000
3000
i raspoloženi da pruže dokaze koji potvrđuju naše modele.
08:30
So, being I'm in the United States, I'll have a dig at the Europeans.
163
492000
4000
Obzirom da sam u Sjedinjenim Državama, sada ću provocirati Evropljane.
08:34
These are examples of what I would say is bad practice in science
164
496000
3000
Ovo ja smatram lošim primerom u centrima za popularizaciju nauke.
08:37
teaching centers. These pictures are from La Villette in France
165
499000
3000
Ovo su slike iz "La Villette"-a u Francuskoj
08:40
and the welcome wing of the Science Museum in London.
166
502000
4000
i iz prijemnog krila Muzeja nauke u Londonu.
08:44
And, if you look at the, kind of the way these things are constructed,
167
506000
4000
Ukoliko analizirate način na koje su ove zgrade napravljene,
08:48
there's a lot of mediation by glass, and it's very blue, and kind of professional --
168
510000
5000
tu ima puno staklenih pregrada, sve je plavo, i deluje profesionalno
08:53
in that way that, you know, Woody Allen comes up
169
515000
3000
znate, kako kada se Vudi Alen
08:56
from under the sheets in that scene in "Annie Hall,"
170
518000
2000
iznenada pojavio u sceni filma "Annie Hall"
08:58
and said, "God, that's so professional." And that you don't --
171
520000
3000
i rekao: "Bože, to je tako profesionalno." I vi nemate-
09:01
there's no passion in it, and it's not hands on, right,
172
523000
3000
tu nema strasti, nema praktičnog treninga, zar ne,
09:04
and, you know, pun intended. Whereas good interpretation --
173
526000
3000
i šalu sam namerno dodao, znate. S druge strane, dobra postavka,
09:07
I'll use an example from nearby -- is San Francisco Exploratorium,
174
529000
4000
navešću primer iz naše okoline-- Istraživački centar San Franciska,
09:11
where all the things that -- the demonstrations, and so on,
175
533000
3000
gde su baš sve stvari-- demonstracije, i tako dalje,
09:14
are made out of everyday objects that children can understand,
176
536000
3000
napravljene od svakodnevnih objekata koje deca mogu da shvate,
09:17
it's very hands-on, and they can engage with, and experiment with.
177
539000
3000
veoma je praktično, i mogu se zanimati i eksperimentisati sa tim.
09:20
And I know that if the graduates at MIT
178
542000
2000
Da su apsolventi sa MIT-a
09:22
and in the Imperial College in London had had the battery and the wire
179
544000
4000
i sa "Imperial College"-a u Londonu imali priliku da se igraju
09:26
and the bit of stuff, and you know, been able to do it,
180
548000
3000
sa beterijom i žicom i drugim stvarima, i znate, da to isprobaju,
09:29
they would have learned how it actually works,
181
551000
3000
naučili bi zaista kako to funkcioniše,
09:32
rather than thinking that they follow circuit diagrams and can't do it.
182
554000
4000
i ne bi mislili da treba da prate strujne mreže i da ne mogu to da urade.
09:36
So good interpretation is more about
183
558000
2000
Dobro predstavljanje bi imalo više
09:38
things that are bodged and stuffed and of my world, right?
184
560000
4000
izmešanih i natrpanih stvari iz svakodnevnog života, zar ne?
09:42
And things that -- where there isn't an extra barrier
185
564000
2000
To su stvari gde nema dodatnih prepreka
09:44
of a piece of glass or machined titanium,
186
566000
3000
kao što su parče stakla ili obrađenog titanijuma,
09:47
and it all looks fantastic, OK?
187
569000
2000
i gde sve izgleda fantastično, okej?
09:49
And the Exploratorium does that really, really well.
188
571000
3000
Istraživački centar čini to veoma, veoma dobro.
09:52
And it's amateur, but amateur in the best sense,
189
574000
3000
Amaterski je, ali amaterski u najboljem smislu reči,
09:55
in other words, the root of the word being of love and passion.
190
577000
5000
drugim rečima, u korenu te reči su ljubav i strast.
10:00
So, children are not empty vessels, OK?
191
582000
2000
Deca nisu prazne table, OK?
10:02
So, as "Monty Python" would have it,
192
584000
2000
Pa, u montipajtonovskom stilu,
10:04
this is a bit Lord Privy Seal to say so,
193
586000
2000
ovo je malo isprazno rečeno,
10:06
but this is -- children are not empty vessels.
194
588000
2000
ali to je to - deca nisu prazne table.
10:08
They come with their own ideas and their own theories,
195
590000
2000
Oni imaju svoje ideje i svoje teorije,
10:10
and unless you work with those, then you won't be able to shift them,
196
592000
4000
i ako se njima ne bavite, nećete biti u stanju da ih promenite,
10:14
right? And I probably haven't shifted your ideas
197
596000
2000
zar ne? Verovatno ni ja nisam promenio vaše ideje
10:16
of how the world and universe operates, either.
198
598000
3000
o tome kako svet i univerzum funkionišu.
10:19
But this applies, equally, to matters of trying to sell new technology.
199
601000
3000
Ovo se jednako može primeniti i na fenomen pokušaja plasiranja novih tehnologija.
10:22
For example, we are, in Britain, we're trying to do a digital switchover
200
604000
3000
Na primer, mi u Britaniji pokušavamo da prebacimo
10:25
of the whole population into digital technology [for television].
201
607000
2000
celu populaciju na digitalne tehnolgoije (u televiziji).
10:27
And it's one of the difficult things
202
609000
2000
Jedna od teških stvari u tome je ta
10:29
is that when people have preconceptions of how it all works,
203
611000
2000
da kada ljudi imaju poimanje o tome
10:31
it's quite difficult to shift those.
204
613000
3000
kako sve funkcioniše, to je veoma teško promeniti.
10:34
So we're not empty vessels; the mental models that we have
205
616000
4000
Mi nismo prazne table, idejni modeli koje imamo
10:38
as children persist into adulthood.
206
620000
2000
kao deca su sa nama i kada odrastemo.
10:40
Poor teaching actually does more harm than good.
207
622000
2000
Loša nastava čini mnogo više štete nego koristi.
10:42
In this country and in Britain, magnetism is understood better
208
624000
4000
I u ovoj zemlji i u Britaniji deca bolje razumeju magnetizam
10:46
by children before they've been to school than afterwards, OK?
209
628000
3000
pre školovanja nego posle završene škole, okej?
10:49
Same for gravity, two concepts, so it's -- which is quite humbling,
210
631000
4000
Ista stvar važi za gravitaciju, to su dva koncepta - i to je jako loše.
10:53
as a, you know, if you're a teacher, and you look before and after,
211
635000
3000
I znate, ukoliko ste nastavnik i pogledate rezultate pre i posle
10:56
that's quite worrying. They do worse in tests afterwards, after the teaching.
212
638000
4000
to je zabrinjavajuće. Rezultati testova su lošiji nakon nastave.
11:00
And we collude. We design tests,
213
642000
2000
Mi vršimo zavere. Sastavljamo takve testove,
11:02
or at least in Britain, so that people pass them. Right?
214
644000
3000
barem u Britaniji, kako bi ih ljudi položili. U redu?
11:05
And governments do very well. They pat themselves on the back.
215
647000
3000
Vlade rade veoma dobro. Zadovoljno se potapšu po ramenu.
11:08
OK? We collude, and actually if you --
216
650000
4000
Okej? Mi smo u zaveri, i u principu da ste -
11:12
if someone had designed a test for me
217
654000
2000
da je neko osmislio test za mene
11:14
when I was doing my biology exams,
218
656000
2000
kada sam izlazio na ispite iz biologije
11:16
to really understand, to see whether I'd understood
219
658000
2000
kako bi zaista razumeo, video da li sam zaista shvatio
11:18
more than just kind of putting starch and iodine together
220
660000
2000
više od toga da ako pomešaš skrob i jod
11:20
and seeing it go blue,
221
662000
2000
dobiješ nešto plave boje,
11:22
and really understood that plants took their mass out of the air,
222
664000
3000
i da sam zaista razumeo da biljke dolaze do materije iz vazduha,
11:25
then I might have done better at science.
223
667000
5000
možda bih bio bolji naučnik.
11:30
So the most important thing is to get people to articulate their models.
224
672000
5000
Najvažnija stvar jeste omogućiti ljudima da jasno predstave svoje modele.
11:35
Your homework is -- you know, how does an aircraft's wing create lift?
225
677000
5000
Vaš domaći zadatak - znate li kako se krilo aviona pomera naviše?
11:40
An obvious question, and you'll have an answer now in your heads.
226
682000
4000
To je očigledno pitanje, i svi vi imate odgovor u glavi.
11:44
And the second question to that then is,
227
686000
3000
Drugi deo ovog pitanje je sledeći,
11:47
ensure you've explained how it is that planes can fly upside down.
228
689000
4000
morate objasniti i kako avion može da leti u izvrnutom položaju?
11:51
Ah ha, right. Second question is, why is the sea blue? All right?
229
693000
4000
Aha, tačno. Drugo pitanje je zašto je more plavo? U redu?
11:55
And you've all got an idea in your head of the answer.
230
697000
4000
Svi već imate ideju u glavi o samom odgovoru.
11:59
So, why is it blue on cloudy days? Ah, see.
231
701000
4000
Pa, zašto je onda plavo kada je oblačno? Aha, vidite.
12:03
(Laughter)
232
705000
3000
(smeh)
12:06
I've always wanted to say that in this country.
233
708000
2000
Oduvek sam želeo da to kažem u ovoj državi.
12:08
(Laughter)
234
710000
2000
(smeh)
12:10
Finally, my plea to you is to allow yourselves, and your children,
235
712000
4000
Na kraju, moja molba svima vama jeste da dozvolite sebi, svojoj deci
12:14
and anyone you know, to kind of fiddle with stuff,
236
716000
3000
i svima koje znate da isprobavate stvari,
12:17
because it's by fiddling with things that you, you know,
237
719000
2000
jer putem ispitivanja stvari vi prosto
12:19
you complement your other learning. It's not a replacement,
238
721000
2000
dopunjujete svoja znanja. To nije zamena,
12:21
it's just part of learning that's important.
239
723000
3000
to je samo važan deo učenja.
12:24
Thank you very much.
240
726000
1000
Hvala vam puno.
12:25
Now -- oh, oh yeah, go on then, go on.
241
727000
2000
I sada-- oh, o-da, hajde,hajde.
12:28
(Applause)
242
730000
1000
(aplauz)
ABOUT THE SPEAKER
Jonathan Drori - EducatorJonathan Drori commissioned the BBC's very first websites, one highlight in a long career devoted to online culture and educational media -- and understanding how we learn.
Why you should listen
Jonathan Drori has dedicated his career to media and learning. As the Head of Commissioning for BBC Online, he led the effort to create bbc.co.uk, the online face of the BBC (an effort he recalls fondly). He came to the web from the TV side of the BBC, where as an editor and producer he headed up dozens of television series on science, education and the arts.
After almost two decades at the BBC, he's now a director at Changing Media Ltd., a media and education consultancy, and is a visiting professor at University of Bristol, where he studies educational media and misperceptions in science. He continues to executive produce the occasional TV series, including 2004's award-winning "The DNA Story" and 2009's "Great Sperm Race." He is on the boards of the Royal Botanic Gardens and the Woodland Trust.
(Photo: Lloyd Davis/flickr)
Jonathan Drori | Speaker | TED.com