TED2017
Tristan Harris: How a handful of tech companies control billions of minds every day
特里斯坦•哈里斯: 科技公司如何控制你的注意力
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2,591,029 views
屈指可数的科技公司中的一小部分人掌控着亿万人每天的思考，设计思考者特里斯坦•哈里斯说道。从Facebook的消息通知到Snapstreaks再到YouTube的自动播放，它们都在为一件东西竞争：你的注意力。哈里斯分享了这些公司如何利用我们的心理为他们自己谋利，并且呼吁进行一次科技重塑，让科技帮助我们按照我们的心愿来生活。
Tristan Harris - Design thinker
Tristan Harris helps the technology industry more consciously and ethically shape the human spirit and human potential. Full bio
Tristan Harris helps the technology industry more consciously and ethically shape the human spirit and human potential. Full bio
Double-click the English transcript below to play the video.
00:12
I want you to imagine
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我想让你们想象
走进一个房间，
00:15
walking into a room,
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这个房间是个控制室，
里面有一群人，大概上百人，
里面有一群人，大概上百人，
00:17
a control room with a bunch of people,
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都在有控制器的桌子旁伏案工作，
00:19
a hundred people, hunched
over a desk with little dials,
over a desk with little dials,
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而那间控制室
00:23
and that that control room
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00:25
will shape the thoughts and feelings
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会决定上亿人的
思想和情感。
00:29
of a billion people.
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00:32
This might sound like science fiction,
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这听上去像是科幻小说，
00:35
but this actually exists
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但是今天，此刻，
它真真切切地发生着。
00:37
right now, today.
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00:40
I know because I used to be
in one of those control rooms.
in one of those control rooms.
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因为我就在这种控制室工作过。
我曾是谷歌的设计伦理学家，
00:44
I was a design ethicist at Google,
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在那里我曾研究过如何
名正言顺地左右人们的想法。
名正言顺地左右人们的想法。
00:46
where I studied how do you ethically
steer people's thoughts?
steer people's thoughts?
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00:50
Because what we don't talk about
is how the handful of people
is how the handful of people
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因为我们不常讨论屈指可数的
几家科技公司的那么几个人，
00:53
working at a handful
of technology companies
of technology companies
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是如何通过他们的选择
来影响现今上亿人的思想。
来影响现今上亿人的思想。
00:56
through their choices will steer
what a billion people are thinking today.
what a billion people are thinking today.
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01:02
Because when you pull out your phone
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因为当你拿出手机，
他们将设计下一步会如何
以及应该推送哪些新闻，
以及应该推送哪些新闻，
01:04
and they design how this works
or what's on the feed,
or what's on the feed,
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就像在我们的脑子里设定出了小小的模块。
01:07
it's scheduling little blocks
of time in our minds.
of time in our minds.
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如果你看到一个消息，
这会促使你形成
这会促使你形成
01:10
If you see a notification,
it schedules you to have thoughts
it schedules you to have thoughts
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01:13
that maybe you didn't intend to have.
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或许原本没有的想法。
01:16
If you swipe over that notification,
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如果你忽略了这个消息，
他们还会设计让你在原本
01:19
it schedules you into spending
a little bit of time
a little bit of time
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不关注的东西上
01:21
getting sucked into something
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01:22
that maybe you didn't intend
to get sucked into.
to get sucked into.
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多花些时间。
01:27
When we talk about technology,
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当我们谈到科技时，
我们倾向于把它描绘成
充满机遇的蓝图。
充满机遇的蓝图。
01:30
we tend to talk about it
as this blue sky opportunity.
as this blue sky opportunity.
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01:32
It could go any direction.
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天马行空，任你想象。
01:35
And I want to get serious for a moment
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而我想严肃地告诉你们，
为什么它选择了某个特定的方向。
01:37
and tell you why it's going
in a very specific direction.
in a very specific direction.
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因为科技的发展不是随机的。
01:40
Because it's not evolving randomly.
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01:44
There's a hidden goal
driving the direction
driving the direction
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在我们创造的所有科技背后
都隐藏着明确的目标，
01:46
of all of the technology we make,
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那个目标就是追求我们的注意力。
01:48
and that goal is the race
for our attention.
for our attention.
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01:52
Because every new site --
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因为所有新的网站——
TED演讲，选举，政客，
01:55
TED, elections, politicians,
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游戏，甚至是冥想软件——
01:58
games, even meditation apps --
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都需要为同一种东西彼此竞争，
02:00
have to compete for one thing,
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02:03
which is our attention,
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那就是我们的注意力，
02:04
and there's only so much of it.
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而注意力是有限的。
02:08
And the best way to get people's attention
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获得人们注意力的最佳办法
02:10
is to know how someone's mind works.
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就是了解我们的大脑是如何运作的。
02:13
And there's a whole bunch
of persuasive techniques
of persuasive techniques
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大学时我曾在一个叫做
说服性技术实验室的地方
说服性技术实验室的地方
02:16
that I learned in college at a lab
called the Persuasive Technology Lab
called the Persuasive Technology Lab
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学到了许多说服别人的技巧，
来获取人们的注意力。
02:19
to get people's attention.
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02:21
A simple example is YouTube.
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一个简单的例子就是YouTube。
YouTube希望你在
它上面花的时间越多越好。
它上面花的时间越多越好。
02:24
YouTube wants to maximize
how much time you spend.
how much time you spend.
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02:26
And so what do they do?
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那么他们做了什么呢？
02:28
They autoplay the next video.
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他们增加了自动播放下一个视频的功能。
效果应该说很不错。
02:31
And let's say that works really well.
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人们在上面花费了更多的时间。
02:33
They're getting a little bit
more of people's time.
more of people's time.
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如果你在Netflix工作，
看到他们这么做之后会觉得，
看到他们这么做之后会觉得，
02:36
Well, if you're Netflix,
you look at that and say,
you look at that and say,
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这会减少我的市场份额，
02:38
well, that's shrinking my market share,
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我也要自动播放下一集。
02:40
so I'm going to autoplay the next episode.
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02:43
But then if you're Facebook,
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但如果你是Facebook的员工，
你会说，这减少了我的市场份额，
02:44
you say, that's shrinking
all of my market share,
all of my market share,
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所以我会在你点击播放按键前
02:47
so now I have to autoplay
all the videos in the newsfeed
all the videos in the newsfeed
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自动播放新闻推送中的所有视频。
02:49
before waiting for you to click play.
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02:52
So the internet is not evolving at random.
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所以网络不是随机发展的。
02:56
The reason it feels
like it's sucking us in the way it is
like it's sucking us in the way it is
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我们感觉上瘾的原因在于
我们的注意力成了被竞争的对象。
03:00
is because of this race for attention.
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我们知道这样发展下去会如何。
03:03
We know where this is going.
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03:04
Technology is not neutral,
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科技并非中性的，
03:07
and it becomes this race
to the bottom of the brain stem
to the bottom of the brain stem
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它变成了那些可以深入了解
人脑运作的人之间的竞争。
03:10
of who can go lower to get it.
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03:13
Let me give you an example of Snapchat.
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给你们举个Snapchat的例子。
有人可能不太了解，
Snapchat是在美国青少年中
Snapchat是在美国青少年中
03:16
If you didn't know,
Snapchat is the number one way
Snapchat is the number one way
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排名第一的交流方式。
03:20
that teenagers in
the United States communicate.
the United States communicate.
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如果你们和我一样用短信交流，
03:22
So if you're like me, and you use
text messages to communicate,
text messages to communicate,
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那么Snapchat就是青少年的短信，
03:26
Snapchat is that for teenagers,
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03:28
and there's, like,
a hundred million of them that use it.
a hundred million of them that use it.
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有近一亿人在使用。
他们发明了一种叫Snapstreaks的功能，
03:31
And they invented
a feature called Snapstreaks,
a feature called Snapstreaks,
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它会展示两个人
03:33
which shows the number of days in a row
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持续互动的天数。
03:35
that two people have
communicated with each other.
communicated with each other.
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换句话说，他们所做的
03:37
In other words, what they just did
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03:39
is they gave two people
something they don't want to lose.
something they don't want to lose.
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就是给了两个人不想失去的记录。
03:44
Because if you're a teenager,
and you have 150 days in a row,
and you have 150 days in a row,
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因为如果你是一个青少年，
连续交流了150天，
连续交流了150天，
03:47
you don't want that to go away.
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你不想失去这些东西。
03:49
And so think of the little blocks of time
that that schedules in kids' minds.
that that schedules in kids' minds.
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试想一下孩子脑子里
已被设定好的时间模块。
已被设定好的时间模块。
03:54
This isn't theoretical:
when kids go on vacation,
when kids go on vacation,
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这不是理论空谈，而是事实；
当孩子们去度假时，
当孩子们去度假时，
即使他们不能使用
Snapstreaks，也会把密码
Snapstreaks，也会把密码
03:56
it's been shown they give their passwords
to up to five other friends
to up to five other friends
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告诉至多五个朋友，
03:59
to keep their Snapstreaks going,
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04:02
even when they can't do it.
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来帮助他把Snapstreaks接力下去。
04:04
And they have, like, 30 of these things,
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他们要同时关注大约30件这种事情，
所以每天他们就忙于拍拍画，拍拍墙，
04:06
and so they have to get through
taking photos of just pictures or walls
taking photos of just pictures or walls
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拍拍天花板来消磨时间。
04:09
or ceilings just to get through their day.
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04:13
So it's not even like
they're having real conversations.
they're having real conversations.
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这甚至不能被称为真正的交流。
我们可能会这么想，
04:15
We have a temptation to think about this
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他们用Snapchat的方式
04:17
as, oh, they're just using Snapchat
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04:20
the way we used to
gossip on the telephone.
gossip on the telephone.
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就像我们曾经用电话聊八卦一样，
应该是没问题的。
04:22
It's probably OK.
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04:24
Well, what this misses
is that in the 1970s,
is that in the 1970s,
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但人们忽略了在上世纪七十年代，
04:26
when you were just
gossiping on the telephone,
gossiping on the telephone,
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当你们用电话聊八卦时，
04:29
there wasn't a hundred engineers
on the other side of the screen
on the other side of the screen
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在另一头并没有数百名工程师
准确知道你们的心理活动，
04:32
who knew exactly
how your psychology worked
how your psychology worked
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并精心策划着如何让你们加强联络。
04:34
and orchestrated you
into a double bind with each other.
into a double bind with each other.
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04:38
Now, if this is making you
feel a little bit of outrage,
feel a little bit of outrage,
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如果这让你有些愤怒了，
04:42
notice that that thought
just comes over you.
just comes over you.
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请注意，你刚刚才意识到这点，
04:45
Outrage is a really good way also
of getting your attention,
of getting your attention,
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愤怒也是获取你注意力的一种好方式。
04:49
because we don't choose outrage.
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因为我们不会选择愤怒。
它会自动发生在我们身上。
04:51
It happens to us.
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04:52
And if you're the Facebook newsfeed,
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如果你负责Facebook的新闻推送，
信不信由你，
04:54
whether you'd want to or not,
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人们愤怒的时候你会受益。
04:56
you actually benefit when there's outrage.
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因为愤怒不仅仅是人们
04:59
Because outrage
doesn't just schedule a reaction
doesn't just schedule a reaction
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05:01
in emotional time, space, for you.
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在情感和空间上的一个反应。
05:05
We want to share that outrage
with other people.
with other people.
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想要与人分享这份愤怒，
所以我们会按下分享键，然后说，
05:07
So we want to hit share and say,
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“你能相信他们说的吗？”
05:09
"Can you believe the thing
that they said?"
that they said?"
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05:12
And so outrage works really well
at getting attention,
at getting attention,
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而这种愤怒真的特别容易获得注意力，
甚至于如果Facebook
可以在展示惹人愤怒的消息
可以在展示惹人愤怒的消息
05:15
such that if Facebook had a choice
between showing you the outrage feed
between showing you the outrage feed
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和一般的消息之间进行选择的话，
05:19
and a calm newsfeed,
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他们会选择向你发布让你愤怒的消息，
05:22
they would want
to show you the outrage feed,
to show you the outrage feed,
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不是因为刻意的原因，
05:24
not because someone
consciously chose that,
consciously chose that,
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05:26
but because that worked better
at getting your attention.
at getting your attention.
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只是那会更好的获得你的注意。
05:31
And the newsfeed control room
is not accountable to us.
is not accountable to us.
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消息控制室不用对我们负责，
05:37
It's only accountable
to maximizing attention.
to maximizing attention.
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它只对最大化获得人们的注意力负责，
鉴于广告的商业模型，
05:39
It's also accountable,
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它也对可以花钱进入
05:40
because of the business model
of advertising,
of advertising,
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05:43
for anybody who can pay the most
to actually walk into the control room
to actually walk into the control room
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控制室的人负责，他们可以要求说
05:46
and say, "That group over there,
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“那一组人，我想把
这些东西灌输给他们。”
05:47
I want to schedule these thoughts
into their minds."
into their minds."
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05:51
So you can target,
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所以你可以定位，
05:54
you can precisely target a lie
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你可以准确定位到
05:56
directly to the people
who are most susceptible.
who are most susceptible.
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那些最易受到影响的人。
06:00
And because this is profitable,
it's only going to get worse.
it's only going to get worse.
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因为这有利可图，
所以只会变得越来越糟。
所以只会变得越来越糟。
06:05
So I'm here today
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今天我在这里（跟大家讲）
06:08
because the costs are so obvious.
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是因为代价已经太高了。
06:12
I don't know a more urgent
problem than this,
problem than this,
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我不知道还有什么问题比这更紧急的，
因为这个问题隐藏在所有问题之中。
06:14
because this problem
is underneath all other problems.
is underneath all other problems.
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06:18
It's not just taking away our agency
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它并不仅仅是剥夺了我们的注意力
和选择生活方式的自主权，
06:21
to spend our attention
and live the lives that we want,
and live the lives that we want,
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06:25
it's changing the way
that we have our conversations,
that we have our conversations,
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更是改变了我们进行交流的方式，
改变了我们的民主意识，
06:29
it's changing our democracy,
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06:31
and it's changing our ability
to have the conversations
to have the conversations
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改变了我们与他人交流，
维系关系的能力。
06:33
and relationships we want with each other.
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06:37
And it affects everyone,
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这影响到了每个人，
06:38
because a billion people
have one of these in their pocket.
have one of these in their pocket.
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因为亿万人的口袋里
都装着这个东西（手机）。
都装着这个东西（手机）。
06:45
So how do we fix this?
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那么我们要如何解决这个问题呢？
06:49
We need to make three radical changes
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我们需要对科技和社会
06:52
to technology and to our society.
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做三个大胆的突破。
06:55
The first is we need to acknowledge
that we are persuadable.
that we are persuadable.
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首先，我们需要承认我们可以被说服。
07:00
Once you start understanding
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一旦了解
我们是可以安排大脑去想一点其他事情，
07:02
that your mind can be scheduled
into having little thoughts
into having little thoughts
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或无计划地占用一些时间，
07:05
or little blocks of time
that you didn't choose,
that you didn't choose,
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我们难道不能利用这点认识
07:07
wouldn't we want to use that understanding
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来改变现状吗？
07:09
and protect against the way
that that happens?
that that happens?
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07:12
I think we need to see ourselves
fundamentally in a new way.
fundamentally in a new way.
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我认为我们需要
以全新的方式审视自己。
以全新的方式审视自己。
就像是人类历史上的新篇章，
07:15
It's almost like a new period
of human history,
of human history,
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就像启蒙运动，
07:18
like the Enlightenment,
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但这是自省式的启蒙运动，
07:19
but almost a kind of
self-aware Enlightenment,
self-aware Enlightenment,
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意识到我们可以被说服影响，
07:21
that we can be persuaded,
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意识到有些东西需要我们去保护。
07:24
and there might be something
we want to protect.
we want to protect.
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07:27
The second is we need new models
and accountability systems
and accountability systems
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第二点是，我们需要新的
模型和责任系统，
模型和责任系统，
以便让世界变得越来越好，
也越来越有影响力时——
也越来越有影响力时——
07:32
so that as the world gets better
and more and more persuasive over time --
and more and more persuasive over time --
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07:35
because it's only going
to get more persuasive --
to get more persuasive --
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也就是更能说服我们时——
那些控制室里的人们
07:37
that the people in those control rooms
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才会对我们负责，且行为对我们透明化。
07:39
are accountable and transparent
to what we want.
to what we want.
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道德说服只有当
07:42
The only form of ethical
persuasion that exists
persuasion that exists
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说服和被说服者的
07:44
is when the goals of the persuader
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07:46
are aligned with the goals
of the persuadee.
of the persuadee.
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目标一致时才存在。
07:49
And that involves questioning big things,
like the business model of advertising.
like the business model of advertising.
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这就涉及到对热门举措的怀疑，
比如广告的商业模型。
比如广告的商业模型。
07:54
Lastly,
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最后，
07:56
we need a design renaissance,
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我们需要一次科技重塑，
07:59
because once you have
this view of human nature,
this view of human nature,
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因为一旦你开始了解人的这种本性，
你就可以控制上亿人的时间——
08:02
that you can steer the timelines
of a billion people --
of a billion people --
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08:05
just imagine, there's people
who have some desire
who have some desire
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想象一下，有些人有这样的欲望，
他们想做什么，
他们想思考什么，
他们想思考什么，
08:07
about what they want to do
and what they want to be thinking
and what they want to be thinking
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他们想感受什么，
他们想了解什么，
他们想了解什么，
08:10
and what they want to be feeling
and how they want to be informed,
and how they want to be informed,
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而我们被吸引到这些不同的方向。
08:13
and we're all just tugged
into these other directions.
into these other directions.
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数亿人会跟随着这些不同的方向。
08:16
And you have a billion people just tugged
into all these different directions.
into all these different directions.
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试想一下一个完整的科技复兴
08:20
Well, imagine an entire design renaissance
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08:22
that tried to orchestrate
the exact and most empowering
the exact and most empowering
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将会指导我们准确有效的
08:25
time-well-spent way
for those timelines to happen.
for those timelines to happen.
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分配时间。
这包含两个方面：
08:28
And that would involve two things:
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一是防止我们把时间花在
08:30
one would be protecting
against the timelines
against the timelines
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08:32
that we don't want to be experiencing,
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在不想花的地方，
08:34
the thoughts that we
wouldn't want to be happening,
wouldn't want to be happening,
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阻止我们产生不想形成的想法，
即便提示音响了，
我们也不会被牵着鼻子走；
我们也不会被牵着鼻子走；
08:36
so that when that ding happens,
not having the ding that sends us away;
not having the ding that sends us away;
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二是让我们按照所期待的时间轨迹生活。
08:40
and the second would be empowering us
to live out the timeline that we want.
to live out the timeline that we want.
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08:43
So let me give you a concrete example.
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给你们举个实际的例子。
08:46
Today, let's say your friend
cancels dinner on you,
cancels dinner on you,
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今天，比如你的朋友
取消了和你共进晚餐，
取消了和你共进晚餐，
08:48
and you are feeling a little bit lonely.
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你感到有些寂寞。
08:52
And so what do you do in that moment?
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这一刻你会做什么呢？
你打开了Facebook。
08:54
You open up Facebook.
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08:56
And in that moment,
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在那一刻，
08:58
the designers in the control room
want to schedule exactly one thing,
want to schedule exactly one thing,
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控制室里的设计者要做一件事，
09:02
which is to maximize how much time
you spend on the screen.
you spend on the screen.
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那就是要你盯着屏幕，时间越长越好。
09:06
Now, instead, imagine if those designers
created a different timeline
created a different timeline
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现在想象一下，
如果设计者规划了另一条时间轴，
如果设计者规划了另一条时间轴，
09:10
that was the easiest way,
using all of their data,
using all of their data,
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利用他们所有的数据，
用最简单的方法
用最简单的方法
09:14
to actually help you get out
with the people that you care about?
with the people that you care about?
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帮你约出你关心的人呢？
09:17
Just think, alleviating
all loneliness in society,
all loneliness in society,
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试想如果消除社会中所有的孤单，
09:22
if that was the timeline that Facebook
wanted to make possible for people.
wanted to make possible for people.
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才是Facebook想要为人们实现的理想。
或试想另一个对话。
09:26
Or imagine a different conversation.
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比方说你想要在Facebook上
发表备受争议的言论，
发表备受争议的言论，
09:27
Let's say you wanted to post
something supercontroversial on Facebook,
something supercontroversial on Facebook,
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能这么做是很重要的，
09:31
which is a really important
thing to be able to do,
thing to be able to do,
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谈论争议性话题。
09:33
to talk about controversial topics.
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现在有一个巨大的评论栏，
09:35
And right now, when there's
that big comment box,
that big comment box,
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它就像是在问你，
你想要输入什么东西？
你想要输入什么东西？
09:37
it's almost asking you,
what key do you want to type?
what key do you want to type?
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09:41
In other words, it's scheduling
a little timeline of things
a little timeline of things
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换句话说，它设定了你将要
继续在屏幕上做的事情。
09:44
you're going to continue
to do on the screen.
to do on the screen.
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试想如果有另外一个提问框跳出来问你，
09:46
And imagine instead that there was
another button there saying,
another button there saying,
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怎么花费时间最好？
09:49
what would be most
time well spent for you?
time well spent for you?
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你点击 “办个晚餐聚会”
09:51
And you click "host a dinner."
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09:52
And right there
underneath the item it said,
underneath the item it said,
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紧接着下面有个选项问道，
09:54
"Who wants to RSVP for the dinner?"
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“谁想要去这个晚餐？”
虽然你仍想对
有争议性的话题进行讨论，
有争议性的话题进行讨论，
09:56
And so you'd still have a conversation
about something controversial,
about something controversial,
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但你的时间花在了最好的地方，
09:59
but you'd be having it in the most
empowering place on your timeline,
empowering place on your timeline,
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10:03
which would be at home that night
with a bunch of a friends over
with a bunch of a friends over
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晚上在家里和一群朋友
10:06
to talk about it.
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讨论那个话题。
10:09
So imagine we're running, like,
a find and replace
a find and replace
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想象我们正在使用“查找并替代” 功能，
10:13
on all of the timelines
that are currently steering us
that are currently steering us
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把所有那些正在促使我们
花越来越多的时间在屏幕上的事情，
10:15
towards more and more
screen time persuasively
screen time persuasively
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10:19
and replacing all of those timelines
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用我们在生活中的真实意愿
来逐一替换掉。
10:21
with what do we want in our lives.
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10:26
It doesn't have to be this way.
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事情本不必如此复杂。
10:30
Instead of handicapping our attention,
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与阻碍我们的注意力相反，
10:32
imagine if we used all of this data
and all of this power
and all of this power
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试想如果我们利用所有这些数据和功能，
10:35
and this new view of human nature
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加上对人类本性的全新认识，
给我们以超人的能力来集中注意力，
10:37
to give us a superhuman ability to focus
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10:40
and a superhuman ability to put
our attention to what we cared about
our attention to what we cared about
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来关注我们应该关心的事，
来进行民主所需要的
10:44
and a superhuman ability
to have the conversations
to have the conversations
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10:46
that we need to have for democracy.
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互动交流。
10:51
The most complex challenges in the world
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世界上最复杂的挑战
10:56
require not just us
to use our attention individually.
to use our attention individually.
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要求我们不仅独立的运用我们的注意力，
11:00
They require us to use our attention
and coordinate it together.
and coordinate it together.
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还要求我们同心协力。
11:04
Climate change is going to require
that a lot of people
that a lot of people
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气候变化需要许多人
使用最有力的方式
11:07
are being able
to coordinate their attention
to coordinate their attention
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11:09
in the most empowering way together.
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彼此协作。
11:11
And imagine creating
a superhuman ability to do that.
a superhuman ability to do that.
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试想创造出这种超人能力会是什么情景。
11:19
Sometimes the world's
most pressing and important problems
most pressing and important problems
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有时世界上最紧要，最关键的问题
11:24
are not these hypothetical future things
that we could create in the future.
that we could create in the future.
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不是假象出来的未来事物。
11:28
Sometimes the most pressing problems
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有时最紧要的东西
恰恰是我们眼前的东西，
11:30
are the ones that are
right underneath our noses,
right underneath our noses,
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11:32
the things that are already directing
a billion people's thoughts.
a billion people's thoughts.
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是已经影响了上亿人思想的东西。
11:36
And maybe instead of getting excited
about the new augmented reality
about the new augmented reality
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也许，与其对新兴的增强现实，
11:40
and virtual reality
and these cool things that could happen,
and these cool things that could happen,
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虚拟现实等炫酷玩物感到着迷，
11:43
which are going to be susceptible
to the same race for attention,
to the same race for attention,
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使得它们也会成为
注意力竞争中的一员，
注意力竞争中的一员，
11:46
if we could fix the race for attention
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我们不如改进亿万人口袋里
11:48
on the thing that's already
in a billion people's pockets.
in a billion people's pockets.
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影响注意力的那个东西。
11:52
Maybe instead of getting excited
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也许，我们与其对
11:53
about the most exciting
new cool fancy education apps,
new cool fancy education apps,
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新潮炫酷的教育软件感到兴奋，
还不如想想如何拯救那些已被操纵，
11:57
we could fix the way
kids' minds are getting manipulated
kids' minds are getting manipulated
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12:00
into sending empty messages
back and forth.
back and forth.
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来回发送空洞消息的孩子们。
12:04
(Applause)
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（掌声）
12:08
Maybe instead of worrying
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也许，我们与其
12:09
about hypothetical future
runaway artificial intelligences
runaway artificial intelligences
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对假象的未来中的最大主角，
12:13
that are maximizing for one goal,
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人工智能感到担心，
12:16
we could solve the runaway
artificial intelligence
artificial intelligence
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不如解决当下就存在的
12:19
that already exists right now,
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人工智能问题，
12:21
which are these newsfeeds
maximizing for one thing.
maximizing for one thing.
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就是那些争夺注意力的新闻推送。
12:26
It's almost like instead of running away
to colonize new planets,
to colonize new planets,
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这就好比与其逃跑和殖民新的星球，
我们可以解决现在所在星球的问题。
12:29
we could fix the one
that we're already on.
that we're already on.
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12:32
(Applause)
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（掌声）
12:40
Solving this problem
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解决这个问题
12:41
is critical infrastructure
for solving every other problem.
for solving every other problem.
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是解决其他问题的关键所在。
12:46
There's nothing in your life
or in our collective problems
or in our collective problems
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在你生命之中或是我们共同的问题中，
12:50
that does not require our ability
to put our attention where we care about.
to put our attention where we care about.
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没有一件事不需要我们
把注意力放到我们关心的事情上去。
把注意力放到我们关心的事情上去。
12:55
At the end of our lives,
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归根到底，在一生中，
12:58
all we have is our attention and our time.
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我们共同拥有的就是注意力和时间。
13:01
What will be time well spent for ours?
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时间会被我们自己充分利用吗？
13:03
Thank you.
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谢谢大家。
（掌声）
13:04
(Applause)
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13:17
Chris Anderson: Tristan, thank you.
Hey, stay up here a sec.
Hey, stay up here a sec.
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克里斯•安德森：
Tristan，谢谢你，请留步。
Tristan，谢谢你，请留步。
首先，谢谢你。
13:20
First of all, thank you.
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13:22
I know we asked you to do this talk
on pretty short notice,
on pretty short notice,
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我知道我们很晚才通知你要做这次演讲，
这周准备这个演讲，
13:24
and you've had quite a stressful week
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13:27
getting this thing together, so thank you.
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压力确实很大，再次谢谢你。
13:30
Some people listening might say,
what you complain about is addiction,
what you complain about is addiction,
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有些听众可能会说，
你抱怨的不就是上瘾吗，
你抱怨的不就是上瘾吗，
13:34
and all these people doing this stuff,
for them it's actually interesting.
for them it's actually interesting.
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而对于真正这么做的人来说，
他们确确实实是觉得有趣的。
他们确确实实是觉得有趣的。
所有这些设计策划
13:38
All these design decisions
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使得用户获取了十分有趣的内容。
13:39
have built user content
that is fantastically interesting.
that is fantastically interesting.
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13:42
The world's more interesting
than it ever has been.
than it ever has been.
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这个世界从未如此有意思过。
这有什么问题吗？
13:45
What's wrong with that?
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特里斯坦•哈里斯：
我认为这确实有趣。
我认为这确实有趣。
13:46
Tristan Harris:
I think it's really interesting.
I think it's really interesting.
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换个角度思考一下
举个例子，还用YouTube，
举个例子，还用YouTube，
13:48
One way to see this
is if you're just YouTube, for example,
is if you're just YouTube, for example,
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13:52
you want to always show
the more interesting next video.
the more interesting next video.
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你总是想让下一个视频更有趣。
你想要在建议下一个视频
这件事上越做越好，
这件事上越做越好，
13:55
You want to get better and better
at suggesting that next video,
at suggesting that next video,
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但即使你可以建议一个
13:58
but even if you could propose
the perfect next video
the perfect next video
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所有人都想要观看的完美视频，
14:00
that everyone would want to watch,
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其实只是在吸引人们
盯住屏幕这件事上越来越好。
盯住屏幕这件事上越来越好。
14:02
it would just be better and better
at keeping you hooked on the screen.
at keeping you hooked on the screen.
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所以这个等式缺失的是
14:05
So what's missing in that equation
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知道我们的极限在哪里。
14:07
is figuring out what
our boundaries would be.
our boundaries would be.
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比如，你想要让YouTube对
入睡这样的事儿有所了解。
入睡这样的事儿有所了解。
14:09
You would want YouTube to know
something about, say, falling asleep.
something about, say, falling asleep.
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Netflix的CEO最近说过，
14:12
The CEO of Netflix recently said,
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“我们最大的对手是Facebook，
YouTube和睡眠。”
YouTube和睡眠。”
14:14
"our biggest competitors
are Facebook, YouTube and sleep."
are Facebook, YouTube and sleep."
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14:17
And so what we need to recognize
is that the human architecture is limited
is that the human architecture is limited
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所以我们需要认识到
人体本身是有极限的，
人体本身是有极限的，
在我们的生活中有某些界限或方面
14:21
and that we have certain boundaries
or dimensions of our lives
or dimensions of our lives
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是要得到尊重的，
14:24
that we want to be honored and respected,
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1976
而科技是可以帮助我们实现这些的。
14:26
and technology could help do that.
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14:28
(Applause)
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（掌声）
CA：你是否可以说明一下
14:31
CA: I mean, could you make the case
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14:33
that part of the problem here is that
we've got a naïve model of human nature?
we've got a naïve model of human nature?
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我们是不是对人性的认识太天真了？
14:39
So much of this is justified
in terms of human preference,
in terms of human preference,
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从人类偏好来看，
这些东西是可以合理化的，
这些东西是可以合理化的，
我们有这些极其棒的算法
14:41
where we've got these algorithms
that do an amazing job
that do an amazing job
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为人类的偏好优化上做着贡献，
14:44
of optimizing for human preference,
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但是，是什么偏好呢？
14:46
but which preference?
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14:47
There's the preferences
of things that we really care about
of things that we really care about
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有我们确实关心的
偏好，
14:51
when we think about them
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14:52
versus the preferences
of what we just instinctively click on.
of what we just instinctively click on.
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也有我们只是下意识点击的偏好。
14:55
If we could implant that more nuanced
view of human nature in every design,
view of human nature in every design,
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如果我们在每个设计中
多加一点对人类本性的关注，
多加一点对人类本性的关注，
这会不会是一种进步呢？
15:00
would that be a step forward?
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15:01
TH: Absolutely. I mean, I think right now
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TH：那是肯定的。我认为现在
科技基本上只是利用我们的下意识，
15:03
it's as if all of our technology
is basically only asking our lizard brain
is basically only asking our lizard brain
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找到最好的方式让我们自然而然地
15:07
what's the best way
to just impulsively get you to do
to just impulsively get you to do
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15:09
the next tiniest thing with your time,
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对微不足道的事上瘾，
15:11
instead of asking you in your life
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而不是问我们在生活中
15:13
what we would be most
time well spent for you?
time well spent for you?
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时间要如何花费才最有意义。
什么才是完美的时间安排，
这可能包括后面的事情，
这可能包括后面的事情，
15:15
What would be the perfect timeline
that might include something later,
that might include something later,
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例如你利用在这儿的最后一天
参加TED，是很好的利用了时间吗？
参加TED，是很好的利用了时间吗？
15:19
would be time well spent for you
here at TED in your last day here?
here at TED in your last day here?
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CA：如果Facebook和Google
或任何一个人上来对我们说，
或任何一个人上来对我们说，
15:22
CA: So if Facebook and Google
and everyone said to us first up,
and everyone said to us first up,
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“嘿，你想要我们为你的思考进行优化，
15:25
"Hey, would you like us
to optimize for your reflective brain
to optimize for your reflective brain
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还是优化你的下意识？你来选择。”
15:28
or your lizard brain? You choose."
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TH：是的。这可能是个方法。
15:29
TH: Right. That would be one way. Yes.
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15:34
CA: You said persuadability,
that's an interesting word to me
that's an interesting word to me
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CA：你说到可说服性，
对我来说这个词很有趣，
对我来说这个词很有趣，
15:37
because to me there's
two different types of persuadability.
two different types of persuadability.
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因为在我看来有两种不同的可说服性。
有一种可说服性是我们现在正尝试的，
15:40
There's the persuadability
that we're trying right now
that we're trying right now
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关于推理，思考以及做出论证，
15:42
of reason and thinking
and making an argument,
and making an argument,
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但是我觉得你在谈论另一种，
15:44
but I think you're almost
talking about a different kind,
talking about a different kind,
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更加内在的本能的一种可说服性，
15:47
a more visceral type of persuadability,
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即在不经思考下就被说服了。
15:49
of being persuaded without
even knowing that you're thinking.
even knowing that you're thinking.
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TH：是的。我十分关注
这个问题的原因是，
这个问题的原因是，
15:52
TH: Exactly. The reason
I care about this problem so much is
I care about this problem so much is
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我曾在斯坦福的
说服性技术实验室学习，
说服性技术实验室学习，
15:55
I studied at a lab called
the Persuasive Technology Lab at Stanford
the Persuasive Technology Lab at Stanford
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那里就是教学生这些技巧。
15:58
that taught people
exactly these techniques.
exactly these techniques.
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那有专门的论坛和讨论会，
教授人们如何用隐蔽的方式
教授人们如何用隐蔽的方式
16:00
There's conferences and workshops
that teach people all these covert ways
that teach people all these covert ways
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来获得人们的注意力，
从而策划人们的生活。
从而策划人们的生活。
16:04
of getting people's attention
and orchestrating people's lives.
and orchestrating people's lives.
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正因为大部分人不知道它的存在，
16:07
And it's because most people
don't know that that exists
don't know that that exists
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才使得这个演讲如此重要。
16:09
that this conversation is so important.
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16:11
CA: Tristan, you and I, we both know
so many people from all these companies.
so many people from all these companies.
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CA：Tristan，咱们都认识
许多来自这些公司的人。
许多来自这些公司的人。
他们当中许多人也在这里，
16:15
There are actually many here in the room,
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16:17
and I don't know about you,
but my experience of them
but my experience of them
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我不知道你的想法，
但是就我的经验而言，
但是就我的经验而言，
16:20
is that there is
no shortage of good intent.
no shortage of good intent.
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他们是心存善意的。
大家都向往更美好的世界。
16:22
People want a better world.
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16:24
They are actually -- they really want it.
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他们确实是这样想的。
16:28
And I don't think anything you're saying
is that these are evil people.
is that these are evil people.
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我不认为你的意思是
这些人都是坏人。
这些人都是坏人。
16:32
It's a system where there's
these unintended consequences
these unintended consequences
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只不过是这个系统产生了不经意的结果，
超出了我们的控制范围——
16:36
that have really got out of control --
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TH：在争夺注意力
这件事儿上，没错儿。
这件事儿上，没错儿。
16:38
TH: Of this race for attention.
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当你要获得众人的注意力时，
便成了经典的厮杀，
便成了经典的厮杀，
16:39
It's the classic race to the bottom
when you have to get attention,
when you have to get attention,
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而且特别激烈残忍。
16:42
and it's so tense.
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取得更多注意的唯一办法，
只有深入大脑，
只有深入大脑，
16:44
The only way to get more
is to go lower on the brain stem,
is to go lower on the brain stem,
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深入愤怒，深入情感，
16:46
to go lower into outrage,
to go lower into emotion,
to go lower into emotion,
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16:49
to go lower into the lizard brain.
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深入本性。
16:51
CA: Well, thank you so much for helping us
all get a little bit wiser about this.
all get a little bit wiser about this.
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CA：感谢你帮助我们
对这个问题有了更深的认识。
对这个问题有了更深的认识。
特里斯坦•哈里斯，谢谢你。
TH：非常感谢。
TH：非常感谢。
16:54
Tristan Harris, thank you.
TH: Thank you very much.
TH: Thank you very much.
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（掌声）
16:57
(Applause)
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ABOUT THE SPEAKER
Tristan Harris - Design thinkerTristan Harris helps the technology industry more consciously and ethically shape the human spirit and human potential.
Why you should listen
Tristan Harris has been called "the closest thing Silicon Valley has to a conscience" by The Atlantic magazine. Prior to founding the new Center for Humane Technology, he was Google's Design Ethicist, developing a framework for how technology should "ethically" steer the thoughts and actions of billions of people from screens.
Harris has spent a decade understanding the invisible influences that hijack human thinking and action. Drawing on literature from addiction, performative magic, social engineering, persuasive design and behavioral economics, he is currently developing a framework for ethical persuasion, especially as it relates to the moral responsibility of technology companies.
Rolling Stone magazine named Harris one of "25 People Shaping the World" in 2017. His work has been featured on TED, "60 Minutes," HBO's "RealTime with Bill Maher," "PBS NewsHour," Recode, The Atlantic, WIRED, the New York Times, Der Spiegel, The Economist and many more. Harris has briefed heads of state, technology company CEOs and members of the US Congress about the attention economy.
Tristan Harris | Speaker | TED.com