ABOUT THE SPEAKER
Sajay Samuel - Educator
Professor Sajay Samuel's proposal to reduce the burden of student loans is part of his larger preoccupation with thinking beyond the conventional categories of economics and ecology.

Why you should listen

Sajay Samuel is an award winning professor of accounting at the Smeal College of Business at Penn State University. He has organized seminars and lectured widely in Europe and elsewhere on a range of topics, including science and technology, the political economy of professions and decision theory.

Samuel received his Masters in Accounting and Ph.D in Business Administration from Penn State University in 1990 and 1995 respectively. Since then he has taught management accounting and related subjects to undergraduates, graduates, MBAs and Executives over assignments that included stints at Bucknell University and the University of Connecticut. He returned to Penn State in 2003 and now teaches a capstone course to all undergraduate business majors titled, "Business and Industry Analysis."

Samuel was awarded the 2006 Lester J. Shonto Faculty Award for Excellence in Accounting Education. Dr. Samuel's research has been published in such scholarly journals as Accounting, Organizations and Society, Administration Science Quarterly and Symbolic Interaction. His most recent work on accounting, technology and on the history of ideas, has appeared in three articles in the Encyclopedia of Science, Technology and Ethics (2005). His current research aims at clarifying the political implications of accounting practice. His studies in this area concern the political significance of administrative agencies and professional associations in liberal democratic polities. He has presented the early fruits of this work in France, Italy, Germany and England.

More profile about the speaker
Sajay Samuel | Speaker | TED.com
TEDxPSU

Sajay Samuel: How college loans exploit students for profit

Filmed:
1,313,328 views

"Once upon a time in America," says professor Sajay Samuel, "going to college did not mean graduating with debt." Today, higher education has become a consumer product -- costs have skyrocketed, saddling students with a combined debt of over $1 trillion, while universities and loan companies make massive profits. Samuel proposes a radical solution: link tuition costs to a degree's expected earnings, so that students can make informed decisions about their future, restore their love of learning and contribute to the world in a meaningful way.
- Educator
Professor Sajay Samuel's proposal to reduce the burden of student loans is part of his larger preoccupation with thinking beyond the conventional categories of economics and ecology. Full bio

Double-click the English transcript below to play the video.

00:12
Today 40 million Americans are indebted
for their passage to the new economy.
0
975
5460
00:20
Too poor to pay their way through college,
1
8039
2104
00:22
they now owe lenders
more than one trillion US dollars.
2
10167
4342
00:27
They do find what jobs they can get
3
15709
2239
00:29
to pay off a debt
that is secured on their person.
4
17972
2485
00:33
In America,
5
21201
2048
00:35
even a bankrupt gambler
gets a second chance.
6
23273
5531
00:42
But it is nearly impossible
7
30351
2802
00:45
for an American to get discharged
their student loan debts.
8
33177
3475
00:52
Once upon a time in America,
9
40421
2720
00:55
going to college did not mean
graduating with debt.
10
43165
2650
00:59
My friend Paul's father
graduated from Colorado State University
11
47299
5286
01:04
on the GI Bill.
12
52609
1150
01:07
For his generation,
13
55546
1588
01:09
higher education was free or almost free,
14
57158
2848
01:12
because it was thought of
as a public good.
15
60030
2397
01:15
Not anymore.
16
63676
1196
01:18
When Paul also graduated
from Colorado State University,
17
66171
4096
01:22
he paid for his English degree
by working part-time.
18
70291
3373
01:26
30 years ago,
19
74164
1151
01:27
higher education tuition
was affordable, reasonable,
20
75339
2667
01:30
and what debts you accumulated,
you paid off by graduation date.
21
78030
3396
01:33
Not anymore.
22
81952
1150
01:35
Paul's daughter followed in his footsteps,
23
83829
3374
01:39
but with one difference:
24
87227
1301
01:40
when she graduated five years ago,
25
88552
2492
01:43
it was with a whopping debt.
26
91068
1349
01:45
Students like Kate have to take on a loan
27
93179
3342
01:48
because the cost of higher education
has become unaffordable
28
96545
3199
01:51
for many if not most American families.
29
99768
3689
01:56
But so what?
30
104427
1150
01:58
Getting into debt to buy
an expensive education
31
106117
2548
02:00
is not all bad if you could pay it off
32
108689
2762
02:03
with the increased income
that you earned from it.
33
111475
3134
02:07
But that's where the rubber
meets the road.
34
115266
2113
02:11
Even a college grad
earned 10 percent more in 2001
35
119652
5596
02:17
than she did in 2013.
36
125272
1975
02:19
So ...
37
127984
1150
02:21
tuition costs up,
38
129779
1659
02:23
public funding down,
39
131462
1523
02:25
family incomes diminished,
40
133009
2437
02:27
personal incomes weak.
41
135470
2412
02:30
Is it any wonder that more
than a quarter of those who must
42
138241
4405
02:34
cannot make their student loan payments?
43
142670
2007
02:38
The worst of times
can be the best of times,
44
146852
2977
02:41
because certain truths flash up
in ways that you can't ignore.
45
149853
3878
02:46
I want to speak of three of them today.
46
154446
1946
02:49
1.2 trillion dollars of debts for diplomas
47
157571
3874
02:53
make it abundantly obvious
48
161469
2465
02:55
that higher education
is a consumer product you can buy.
49
163958
3738
03:00
All of us talk about education
just as the economists do now,
50
168283
4818
03:05
as an investment that you make
to improve the human stock
51
173125
4481
03:09
by training them for work.
52
177630
1741
03:11
As an investment you make
to sort and classify people
53
179812
4723
03:16
so that employers
can hire them more easily.
54
184559
2768
03:20
The U.S. News & World Report
ranks colleges
55
188396
3398
03:23
just as the consumer report
rates washing machines.
56
191818
3253
03:27
The language is peppered with barbarisms.
57
195095
3763
03:30
Teachers are called "service providers,"
58
198882
3381
03:34
students are called "consumers."
59
202287
1753
03:37
Sociology and Shakespeare
and soccer and science,
60
205509
3881
03:41
all of these are "content."
61
209414
1595
03:45
Student debt is profitable.
62
213318
1381
03:46
Only not on you.
63
214723
1150
03:49
Your debt fattens the profit
of the student loan industry.
64
217961
3603
03:54
The two 800-pound gorillas of which --
65
222040
2437
03:56
Sallie Mae and Navient --
66
224501
2063
03:58
posted last year a combined profit
of 1.2 billion dollars.
67
226588
5206
04:04
And just like home mortgages,
68
232568
2572
04:07
student loans can be bundled
and packaged and sliced and diced,
69
235164
3186
04:10
and sold on Wall Street.
70
238374
1250
04:12
And colleges and universities
71
240369
1596
04:13
that invest in these securitized loans
72
241989
3300
04:18
profit twice.
73
246170
1151
04:19
Once from your tuition,
74
247735
1421
04:21
and then again from the interest on debt.
75
249180
2380
04:25
With all that money to be made,
76
253108
2366
04:27
are we surprised that some
in the higher education business
77
255498
5587
04:33
have begun to engage in false advertising,
78
261109
2072
04:35
in bait and switch ...
79
263205
1157
04:38
in exploiting the very ignorance
that they pretend to educate?
80
266585
4095
04:44
Third:
81
272144
1150
04:45
diplomas are a brand.
82
273678
1389
04:47
Many years ago my teacher wrote,
83
275741
2351
04:50
"When students are treated as consumers,
84
278116
2541
04:52
they're made prisoners
of addiction and envy."
85
280681
3125
04:59
Just as consumers can be sold and resold
upgraded versions of an iPhone,
86
287794
4541
05:04
so also people can be sold
more and more education.
87
292359
2942
05:08
College is the new high school,
88
296807
1866
05:10
we already say that.
89
298697
1324
05:13
But why stop there?
90
301408
1399
05:14
People can be upsold
on certifications and recertifications,
91
302831
3477
05:18
master's degrees, doctoral degrees.
92
306332
2356
05:23
Higher education is also marketed
as a status object.
93
311436
3713
05:28
Buy a degree,
94
316634
1151
05:29
much like you do a Lexus
of a Louis Vuitton bag,
95
317809
3187
05:33
to distinguish yourself from others.
96
321020
1794
05:34
So you can be the object
of envy of others.
97
322838
2451
05:38
Diplomas are a brand.
98
326669
1731
05:41
But these truths are often times
hidden by a very noisy sales pitch.
99
329034
6595
05:48
There is not a day that goes by
100
336535
1636
05:50
without some policy guy
on television telling us,
101
338195
5037
05:55
"A college degree is absolutely essential
102
343256
2024
05:57
to get on that up escalator
to a middle-class life."
103
345304
2717
06:00
And the usual evidence offered
is the college premium:
104
348890
3678
06:04
a college grad who makes on average
56 percent more than a high school grad.
105
352592
5247
06:10
Let's look at that number more carefully,
106
358425
2048
06:12
because on the face of it,
107
360497
1326
06:13
it seems to belie the stories we all hear
108
361847
3344
06:17
about college grads
working as baristas and cashiers.
109
365215
4388
06:22
Of 100 people who enroll
in any form of post-secondary education,
110
370545
5151
06:27
45 do not complete it in a timely fashion,
111
375720
3048
06:30
for a number of reasons,
including financial.
112
378792
3066
06:34
Of the 55 that do graduate,
113
382275
1913
06:36
two will remain unemployed,
114
384212
2048
06:38
and another 18 are underemployed.
115
386284
2730
06:42
So, college grads earn more
than high school grads,
116
390058
3675
06:45
but does it pay for the exorbitant tuition
117
393757
2993
06:48
and the lost wages while at college?
118
396774
2391
06:51
Now even economists admit
119
399661
2596
06:54
going to college pays off
for only those who complete it.
120
402281
5230
07:00
But that's only because high school wages
have been cut to the bone,
121
408095
4032
07:04
for decades now.
122
412151
1440
07:07
For decades,
123
415369
1889
07:09
workers with a high school degree
124
417282
2357
07:11
have been denied a fair share
of what they have produced.
125
419663
4103
07:16
And had they received as they should have,
126
424480
2905
07:19
then going to college would have been
a bad investment for many.
127
427409
3953
07:23
College premium?
128
431386
2126
07:25
I think it's a high school discount.
129
433941
1754
07:28
Two out of three people who enroll
are not going to find an adequate job.
130
436688
4404
07:33
And the future, for them,
doesn't look particularly promising --
131
441756
3111
07:36
in fact, it's downright bleak.
132
444891
1722
07:38
And it is they who are going to suffer
133
446637
2404
07:42
the most punishing forms of student debt.
134
450541
2683
07:46
And it is they,
135
454002
1151
07:47
curiously and sadly,
136
455177
1381
07:48
who are marketed most loudly
about this college premium thing.
137
456582
3809
07:53
That's not just cynical marketing,
138
461986
2397
07:56
that's cruel.
139
464407
1150
07:59
So what do we do?
140
467277
1150
08:01
What if students and parents treated
higher education as a consumer product?
141
469279
5609
08:08
Everybody else seems to.
142
476199
1539
08:10
Then, like any other consumer product,
143
478686
2262
08:12
you would demand to know
what you're paying for.
144
480972
2499
08:15
When you buy medicines,
145
483495
1215
08:16
you get a list of side effects.
146
484734
1915
08:18
When you buy a higher educational product,
147
486673
2112
08:20
you should have a warning label
148
488809
1634
08:22
that allows consumers to choose,
149
490467
2192
08:24
make informed choices.
150
492683
1379
08:26
When you buy a car,
151
494838
1192
08:28
it tells you how many
miles per gallon to expect.
152
496054
2611
08:31
Who knows what to expect
153
499188
1446
08:32
from a degree say, in Canadian Studies.
154
500658
3714
08:36
There is such a thing, by the way.
155
504806
1659
08:40
What if there was an app for that?
156
508989
2055
08:46
One that linked up the cost of a major
to the expected income.
157
514402
4868
08:52
Let's call it Income-Based Tuition or IBT.
158
520208
2366
08:54
One of you make this.
159
522598
1522
08:56
(Laughter)
160
524144
1539
08:57
Discover your reality.
161
525707
1732
08:59
(Laughter)
162
527463
2309
09:01
There are three advantages,
163
529796
1429
09:03
three benefits to Income-Based Tuition.
164
531249
2681
09:07
Any user can figure out
165
535232
1889
09:09
how much money he or she will make
from a given college and major.
166
537145
3204
09:13
Such informed users
167
541105
1342
09:14
are unlikely to fall victim
to the huckster's ploy,
168
542471
3945
09:18
to the sales pitch.
169
546440
1410
09:19
But also to choose wisely.
170
547874
1706
09:21
Why would anybody pay more for college
171
549604
2402
09:24
than let's say, 15 percent
of the additional income they earn?
172
552030
3026
09:29
There's a second benefit
to Income-Based Tuition.
173
557040
2716
09:31
By tying the cost to the income,
174
559780
2960
09:34
college administrators would be forced
to manage costs better,
175
562764
4421
09:39
to find innovative ways to do so.
176
567209
2340
09:41
For instance,
177
569573
1154
09:42
all of you students here pay roughly
the same tuition for every major.
178
570751
4060
09:47
That is manifestly unfair,
and should change.
179
575478
4047
09:52
An engineering student uses more resources
180
580295
3921
09:56
and facilities and labs and faculty
181
584240
2409
09:58
than a philosophy student.
182
586673
1678
10:01
But the philosophy student,
as a consequence,
183
589581
2104
10:03
is subsidizing the engineering student.
184
591709
2190
10:06
Who then, by the way,
goes on and earns more money.
185
594300
2691
10:09
Why should two people
buy the same product,
186
597015
3707
10:12
pay the same,
187
600746
1175
10:13
but one person receive
half or a third of the service.
188
601945
2777
10:18
In fact, college grads, some majors,
189
606448
4071
10:22
pay 25 percent of their income
servicing their student debt,
190
610543
3620
10:26
while others pay five percent.
191
614187
1673
10:29
That kind if inequity would end
when majors are priced more correctly.
192
617510
4516
10:35
Now of course, all this data --
193
623042
2159
10:37
and one of you is going to do this, right?
194
625225
2074
10:39
All this data has to be well designed,
195
627323
1847
10:41
maybe audited by public accounting firms
196
629194
2098
10:43
to avoid statistical lies.
197
631316
1952
10:45
We know about statistics, right?
198
633292
1845
10:48
But be that as it may,
199
636766
1223
10:50
the third and biggest benefit
of Income-Based Tuition,
200
638013
4381
10:54
is it would free Americans from the fear
and the fact of financial ruin
201
642418
5429
10:59
because they bought a defective product.
202
647871
2166
11:02
Perhaps, in time,
203
650813
2319
11:05
young and old Americans may rediscover,
204
653156
2248
11:07
as the gentleman said earlier,
205
655428
2197
11:09
their curiosity, their love of learning --
206
657649
2039
11:11
begin to study what they love,
207
659712
1437
11:13
love what they study,
208
661173
1179
11:14
follow their passion ...
209
662376
1383
11:16
getting stimulated by their intelligence,
210
664577
2469
11:19
follow paths of inquiry
that they really want to.
211
667070
3437
11:22
After all, it was Eric and Kevin,
212
670848
4450
11:27
two years ago,
213
675322
1168
11:29
just exactly these kinds of young men,
214
677498
3432
11:32
who prompted me and worked with me,
215
680954
2022
11:35
and still do,
216
683000
1561
11:36
in the study of indebted
students in America.
217
684585
3686
11:41
Thank you for your attention.
218
689272
1531
11:42
(Applause)
219
690827
4564

▲Back to top

ABOUT THE SPEAKER
Sajay Samuel - Educator
Professor Sajay Samuel's proposal to reduce the burden of student loans is part of his larger preoccupation with thinking beyond the conventional categories of economics and ecology.

Why you should listen

Sajay Samuel is an award winning professor of accounting at the Smeal College of Business at Penn State University. He has organized seminars and lectured widely in Europe and elsewhere on a range of topics, including science and technology, the political economy of professions and decision theory.

Samuel received his Masters in Accounting and Ph.D in Business Administration from Penn State University in 1990 and 1995 respectively. Since then he has taught management accounting and related subjects to undergraduates, graduates, MBAs and Executives over assignments that included stints at Bucknell University and the University of Connecticut. He returned to Penn State in 2003 and now teaches a capstone course to all undergraduate business majors titled, "Business and Industry Analysis."

Samuel was awarded the 2006 Lester J. Shonto Faculty Award for Excellence in Accounting Education. Dr. Samuel's research has been published in such scholarly journals as Accounting, Organizations and Society, Administration Science Quarterly and Symbolic Interaction. His most recent work on accounting, technology and on the history of ideas, has appeared in three articles in the Encyclopedia of Science, Technology and Ethics (2005). His current research aims at clarifying the political implications of accounting practice. His studies in this area concern the political significance of administrative agencies and professional associations in liberal democratic polities. He has presented the early fruits of this work in France, Italy, Germany and England.

More profile about the speaker
Sajay Samuel | Speaker | TED.com

Data provided by TED.

This site was created in May 2015 and the last update was on January 12, 2020. It will no longer be updated.

We are currently creating a new site called "eng.lish.video" and would be grateful if you could access it.

If you have any questions or suggestions, please feel free to write comments in your language on the contact form.

Privacy Policy

Developer's Blog

Buy Me A Coffee