TEDGlobal 2014
Miguel Nicolelis: Brain-to-brain communication has arrived. How we did it
Miguel Nicolelis: Komunikacija između mozgova je stigla. Kako smo je napravili.
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Možda se sjećate neuroznanstvenika Miguela Nicolelisa – on je napravio egzokostur kontroliran mozgom koji je omogućio paraliziranom čovjeku da udari loptu na otvaranju Svjetskog prvenstva u nogometu 2014. Na čemu on sad radi?
Gradi puteve između dvaju umova (štakora i majmuna, zasad) kako bi se poslala poruka od jednog do drugog mozga. Pogledajte za kraj eksperiment koji, kako on kaže, ide do ruba vaše mašte.
Miguel Nicolelis - Neuroscientist
Miguel Nicolelis explores the limits of the brain-machine interface. Full bio
Miguel Nicolelis explores the limits of the brain-machine interface. Full bio
Double-click the English transcript below to play the video.
00:12
On June 12, 2014, precisely at 3:33
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12. lipnja 2014. godine, točno u 3:33
00:18
in a balmy winter afternoon
in São Paulo, Brazil,
in São Paulo, Brazil,
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tijekom smirujućeg zimskog popodneva
u Sao Paulu, Brazil,
u Sao Paulu, Brazil,
00:23
a typical South American winter afternoon,
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tipično zimsko južnoameričko poslijepodne,
00:26
this kid, this young man
that you see celebrating here
that you see celebrating here
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ovaj klinac, ovaj mladi čovjek,
kojeg vidite da ovdje slavi
kojeg vidite da ovdje slavi
00:29
like he had scored a goal,
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kao da je zabio gol,
00:31
Juliano Pinto, 29 years old,
accomplished a magnificent deed.
accomplished a magnificent deed.
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Juliano Pinto, star 29 godina,
postigao je izvanredno djelo.
postigao je izvanredno djelo.
00:38
Despite being paralyzed
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Unatoč paralizi,
00:40
and not having any sensation
from mid-chest to the tip of his toes
from mid-chest to the tip of his toes
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i tome što nema nikakvog osjeta
od sredine prsa do vrha nožnog palca
od sredine prsa do vrha nožnog palca
00:45
as the result of a car crash six years ago
that killed his brother
that killed his brother
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što je posljedica prometne nesreće
od prije šest godina koja mu je ubila brata
od prije šest godina koja mu je ubila brata
00:49
and produced a complete spinal cord lesion
that left Juliano in a wheelchair,
that left Juliano in a wheelchair,
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te prouzročila potpunu povredu kralježnice
koja je prikovala Juliana za kolica,
koja je prikovala Juliana za kolica,
00:57
Juliano rose to the occasion,
and on this day did something
and on this day did something
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Juliano je uspio prohodati,
i na današnji dan je učinio nešto
i na današnji dan je učinio nešto
01:02
that pretty much everybody that saw him
in the six years deemed impossible.
in the six years deemed impossible.
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Što su više-manje svi koji su ga vidjeli
tijekom šest godina smatrali nemogućim.
tijekom šest godina smatrali nemogućim.
01:09
Juliano Pinto delivered the opening kick
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Juliano Pinto uputio je početni udarac
01:14
of the 2014 Brazilian
World Soccer Cup here
World Soccer Cup here
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Brazilskog svjetskog nogometnog
prvenstva 2014 ovdje
prvenstva 2014 ovdje
01:20
just by thinking.
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samo misleći.
01:22
He could not move his body,
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On nije mogao micati svoje tijelo,
01:24
but he could imagine the movements
needed to kick a ball.
needed to kick a ball.
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ali je mogao zamisliti pokrete
potrebne da udari loptu.
potrebne da udari loptu.
01:29
He was an athlete before the lesion.
He's a para-athlete right now.
He's a para-athlete right now.
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On je bio sportaš prije povrede.
Sada je para-olimpijac.
Sada je para-olimpijac.
01:32
He's going to be in the Paralympic Games,
I hope, in a couple years.
I hope, in a couple years.
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Nastupit će na paraolimpijskim igrama,
nadam se, za nekoliko godina.
nadam se, za nekoliko godina.
01:36
But what the spinal cord lesion
did not rob from Juliano
did not rob from Juliano
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Ali što povreda kralježnice
nije uspjela uzeti Julianu
nije uspjela uzeti Julianu
01:40
was his ability to dream.
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jest njegovu sposobnost da sanja.
01:43
And dream he did that afternoon,
for a stadium of about 75,000 people
for a stadium of about 75,000 people
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I bome je sanjao to poslijepodne,
za stadion od 75,000 ljudi
za stadion od 75,000 ljudi
01:49
and an audience of close to a billion
watching on TV.
watching on TV.
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i publiku od skoro milijardu
koji su gledali TV.
koji su gledali TV.
01:54
And that kick crowned, basically,
30 years of basic research
30 years of basic research
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A taj je udarac okrunio, u osnovi,
30 godina temeljnog istraživanja
30 godina temeljnog istraživanja
02:00
studying how the brain,
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proučavanja kako mozak,
02:02
how this amazing universe
that we have between our ears
that we have between our ears
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kako taj nevjerojatan svemir
koji postoji među našim ušima
koji postoji među našim ušima
02:06
that is only comparable to universe
that we have above our head
that we have above our head
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koji je jedino usporediv sa svemirom
iznad naših glava
iznad naših glava
02:10
because it has about 100 billion elements
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jer ima oko 100 milijardi elemenata
02:13
talking to each other
through electrical brainstorms,
through electrical brainstorms,
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koji pričaju jedni s drugima
putem električnih oluja,
putem električnih oluja,
02:16
what Juliano accomplished
took 30 years to imagine in laboratories
took 30 years to imagine in laboratories
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ono što je Juliano postigao
trebalo je 30 godina zamišljati u labosu
trebalo je 30 godina zamišljati u labosu
02:21
and about 15 years to plan.
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te 15 godina planirati.
02:24
When John Chapin and I,
15 years ago, proposed in a paper
15 years ago, proposed in a paper
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Kada smo John Chapin i ja,
prije 15 godina predložili rad
prije 15 godina predložili rad
02:28
that we would build something
that we called a brain-machine interface,
that we called a brain-machine interface,
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da ćemo izgraditi nešto
što smo zvali sučelje mozak-stroj
što smo zvali sučelje mozak-stroj
02:33
meaning connecting a brain to devices
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što bi značilo povezivanje
mozga s uređajima
mozga s uređajima
02:36
so that animals and humans
could just move these devices,
could just move these devices,
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kako bi životinje i ljudi
mogli pomicati te uređaje
mogli pomicati te uređaje
02:40
no matter how far they are
from their own bodies,
from their own bodies,
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bez obzira koliko su daleko
od njihovih vlastitih tijela,
od njihovih vlastitih tijela,
02:42
just by imagining what they want to do,
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jednostavno zamišljajući što žele činiti,
02:44
our colleagues told us that
we actually needed professional help,
we actually needed professional help,
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naši kolege su nam rekli da
mi zapravo trebamo profesionalnu,
mi zapravo trebamo profesionalnu,
02:49
of the psychiatry variety.
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psihijatrijsku pomoć.
02:52
And despite that,
a Scot and a Brazilian persevered,
a Scot and a Brazilian persevered,
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I unatoč tome,
Škot i Brazilac su opstali,
Škot i Brazilac su opstali,
02:57
because that's how we were raised
in our respective countries,
in our respective countries,
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jer smo tako odgojani,
u našim zemljama,
u našim zemljama,
03:02
and for 12, 15 years,
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i za 12,15 godina,
03:04
we made demonstration after demonstration
suggesting that this was possible.
suggesting that this was possible.
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napravili smo demonstraciju za demonstracijom
sugerirajući da je to bilo moguće.
sugerirajući da je to bilo moguće.
03:08
And a brain-machine interface
is not rocket science,
is not rocket science,
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a sučelje mozak-stroj
nije znanstvena fantastika,
nije znanstvena fantastika,
03:11
it's just brain research.
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to je jednostavno istraživanje o mozgu.
03:13
It's nothing but using sensors
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Nije ništa doli upotrebljavanje senzora
03:16
to read the electrical brainstorms
that a brain is producing
that a brain is producing
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kako bi se čitali električni impulsi
koje mozak proizvodi
koje mozak proizvodi
03:19
to generate the motor commands
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kako bi generirao motorne komande
03:21
that have to be downloaded
to the spinal cord,
to the spinal cord,
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koje trebaju biti prenesene
u kralježnicu,
u kralježnicu,
03:24
so we projected sensors that can read
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stoga smo projicirali
senozore koji mogu čitati
senozore koji mogu čitati
03:26
hundreds and now thousands
of these brain cells simultaneously,
of these brain cells simultaneously,
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stotine i sada tisuće
tih mozgovnih stanica simultano,
tih mozgovnih stanica simultano,
03:30
and extract from these electrical signals
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i estrahirati iz tih električnih signala
03:33
the motor planning
that the brain is generating
that the brain is generating
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motoričko planiranje
koje mozak stvara
koje mozak stvara
03:36
to actually make us move into space.
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kako bismo se zapravo pomicali u prostoru.
03:39
And by doing that, we converted
these signals into digital commands
these signals into digital commands
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I čineći to, mi pretvaramo
te signale u naše digitalne komande
te signale u naše digitalne komande
03:42
that any mechanical, electronic,
or even a virtual device can understand
or even a virtual device can understand
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koje bilo kakav mehanički, elektronički,
ili čak i virutalni uređaj može razumjeti
ili čak i virutalni uređaj može razumjeti
03:47
so that the subject can imagine
what he, she or it wants to make move,
what he, she or it wants to make move,
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kako bi subjekt mogao zamisliti
koji pokret se želi napraviti,
koji pokret se želi napraviti,
03:54
and the device obeys that brain command.
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I uređaj se pokorava komandi mozga.
03:57
By sensorizing these devices
with lots of different types of sensors,
with lots of different types of sensors,
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Detektirajući te uređaje
s mnogo različitih tipova senzora,
s mnogo različitih tipova senzora,
04:01
as you are going to see in a moment,
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kao što ćete vidjeti za koji trenutak,
04:03
we actually sent messages
back to the brain to confirm
back to the brain to confirm
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mi smo zapravo poslali poruke
nazad mozgu da potvrdi
nazad mozgu da potvrdi
04:07
that that voluntary motor will
was being enacted, no matter where --
was being enacted, no matter where --
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da ta dobrovoljna motorička volja
biva donesena, bez obzira gdje -
biva donesena, bez obzira gdje -
04:11
next to the subject, next door,
or across the planet.
or across the planet.
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pored subjekta, u blizini
ili na drugom kraju planete.
ili na drugom kraju planete.
04:16
And as this message gave feedback
back to the brain,
back to the brain,
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i ta je poruka dala povratnu informaciju
nazad mozgu,
nazad mozgu,
04:19
the brain realized its goal:
to make us move.
to make us move.
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mozak je shvatio svoj cilj:
da nas pomakne.
da nas pomakne.
04:23
So this is just one experiment
that we published a few years ago,
that we published a few years ago,
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Stoga je ovo samo jedan eksperiment
koji smo objavili prije nekoliko godina,
koji smo objavili prije nekoliko godina,
04:27
where a monkey, without moving its body,
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gdje je majmun, bez pomicanja svog tijela,
04:29
learned to control the movements
of an avatar arm,
of an avatar arm,
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naučio kontrolirati pokrete
ruke avatara,
ruke avatara,
04:33
a virtual arm that doesn't exist.
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virtualne ruke koja ne postoji.
04:35
What you're listening to
is the sound of the brain of this monkey
is the sound of the brain of this monkey
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Ono što sad čujete
je zvuk mozga ovog majmuna
je zvuk mozga ovog majmuna
04:39
as it explores three different
visually identical spheres
visually identical spheres
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dok otkriva tri različite
vizualno identične sfere
vizualno identične sfere
04:43
in virtual space.
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u virtualnom prostoru.
04:45
And to get a reward,
a drop of orange juice that monkeys love,
a drop of orange juice that monkeys love,
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i kako bi dobio nagradu,
kapljicu narančina soka koju majmun voli,
kapljicu narančina soka koju majmun voli,
04:49
this animal has to detect,
select one of these objects
select one of these objects
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ova životinja mora opaziti,
izabrati jedan od ovih objekata
izabrati jedan od ovih objekata
04:52
by touching,
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dodirom
04:54
not by seeing it, by touching it,
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ne gledanjem, već dodirom
04:56
because every time this virtual hand
touches one of the objects,
touches one of the objects,
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jer svaki put kad virtualna ruka
dodirne neki od objekata
dodirne neki od objekata
04:59
an electrical pulse goes back
to the brain of the animal
to the brain of the animal
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električni se impuls vraća
u mozak životinje
u mozak životinje
05:02
describing the fine texture
of the surface of this object,
of the surface of this object,
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opisujući finu teksturu
površine tog objekta
površine tog objekta
05:06
so the animal can judge what is
the correct object that he has to grab,
the correct object that he has to grab,
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stoga životinja može prosuditi koji je
to objekt koji mora zgrabiti
to objekt koji mora zgrabiti
05:10
and if he does that, he gets a reward
without moving a muscle.
without moving a muscle.
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i ako to napravi, dobije nagradu
bez pomicanja mišića.
bez pomicanja mišića.
05:16
The perfect Brazilian lunch:
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Savršen brazilski ručak:
05:18
not moving a muscle
and getting your orange juice.
and getting your orange juice.
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bez pomicanja mišića
dobiješ sok od naranče.
dobiješ sok od naranče.
05:22
So as we saw this happening,
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I dok smo promatrali kako se to odvija,
05:25
we actually came and proposed the idea
that we had published 15 years ago.
that we had published 15 years ago.
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zapravo smo se sjetili i predložili ideju
koju smo objavili prije 15 godina.
koju smo objavili prije 15 godina.
05:29
We reenacted this paper.
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Ponovili smo rad.
05:31
We got it out of the drawers,
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Izvukli smo ga iz ladica,
05:33
and we proposed that perhaps we could get
a human being that is paralyzed
a human being that is paralyzed
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i dali smo prijedlog da možda možemo
čovjeku koji je paraliziran
čovjeku koji je paraliziran
05:37
to actually use the brain-machine
interface to regain mobility.
interface to regain mobility.
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omogućiti da koristi mozak-stroj
sučelje kako bi se povratila mobilnost
sučelje kako bi se povratila mobilnost
05:42
The idea was that if you suffered --
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Ideja je bila da ako ste imali nesreću --
05:44
and that can happen to any one of us.
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a to se može dogoditi bilo kome od nas.
05:46
Let me tell you, it's very sudden.
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Dopustite mi reći – to se naglo dogodi.
05:48
It's a millisecond of a collision,
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Milisekunda sraza.
05:50
a car accident that
transforms your life completely.
transforms your life completely.
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Automobilska nesreća koja
vam u potpunosti promijeni život.
vam u potpunosti promijeni život.
05:53
If you have a complete lesion
of the spinal cord,
of the spinal cord,
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Ako ostanete s kompletnom povredom
kralježnice,
kralježnice,
05:56
you cannot move because your brainstorms
cannot reach your muscles.
cannot reach your muscles.
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ne možete se pomicati jer vaši moždani impulsi
ne mogu doseći vaše mišiće.
ne mogu doseći vaše mišiće.
06:00
However, your brainstorms
continue to be generated in your head.
continue to be generated in your head.
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Ipak, vaši moždani impulsi
i dalje se stvaraju u vašoj glavi.
i dalje se stvaraju u vašoj glavi.
06:04
Paraplegic, quadriplegic patients
dream about moving every night.
dream about moving every night.
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Paraplegičari, kvadriplegičari
sanjaju svaki dan da se ponovno pomaknu.
sanjaju svaki dan da se ponovno pomaknu.
06:08
They have that inside their head.
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Oni to imaju u glavi.
06:10
The problem is how
to get that code out of it
to get that code out of it
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Problem je kako
doći do tog koda
doći do tog koda
06:13
and make the movement be created again.
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i učiniti ga opet pokretom.
06:16
So what we proposed was,
let's create a new body.
let's create a new body.
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Ono što mi predlažemo jest,
da se napravi novo tijelo.
da se napravi novo tijelo.
06:19
Let's create a robotic vest.
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Napravimo robotsko odijelo.
06:21
And that's exactly why Juliano could
kick that ball just by thinking,
kick that ball just by thinking,
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I upravo je zbog tog odjela Juliano uspio
udariti loptu zamišljajući da to čini,
udariti loptu zamišljajući da to čini,
06:26
because he was wearing
the first brain-controlled robotic vest
the first brain-controlled robotic vest
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jer je nosio prvo odijelo koje je
kontrolirano od strane mozga
kontrolirano od strane mozga
06:30
that can be used by paraplegic,
quadriplegic patients to move
quadriplegic patients to move
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koje mogu koristiti praplegičari,
i kvadriplegirači kako bi se pomicali,
i kvadriplegirači kako bi se pomicali,
06:34
and to regain feedback.
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i ponovno dobili povratnu informaicju.
06:35
That was the original idea, 15 years ago.
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To je bila originalna ideja, prije 15 godina.
06:38
What I'm going to show you is how
156 people from 25 countries
156 people from 25 countries
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A ono što ću vam sad pokazati jest kako
je 156 ljudi iz 25 zemalja
je 156 ljudi iz 25 zemalja
06:44
all over the five continents
of this beautiful Earth,
of this beautiful Earth,
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sa svih 5 kontinenata
ove predivne Zemlje
ove predivne Zemlje
06:47
dropped their lives,
dropped their patents,
dropped their patents,
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stavilo po strani svoje živote,
patente,
patente,
06:50
dropped their dogs, wives,
kids, school, jobs,
kids, school, jobs,
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pse, žene,
djecu, školu, posao,
djecu, školu, posao,
06:54
and congregated to come to Brazil
for 18 months to actually get this done.
for 18 months to actually get this done.
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i okupili se kako bi došli u Brazil na
18 mjeseci kako bi se ovo rješilo.
18 mjeseci kako bi se ovo rješilo.
06:59
Because a couple years after Brazil
was awarded the World Cup,
was awarded the World Cup,
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Jer nakon par godina što je Brazil odabran
za domaćina svjetskog prvenstva,
za domaćina svjetskog prvenstva,
07:03
we heard that the Brazilian government
wanted to do something meaningful
wanted to do something meaningful
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čuli smo da brazilska vlada želi
učiniti nešto značajno
učiniti nešto značajno
07:07
in the opening ceremony
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na ceremoniji otvorenja.
07:08
in the country that reinvented
and perfected soccer
and perfected soccer
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u zemlji koja je ponovno izumila
i usavršila nogomet
i usavršila nogomet
07:12
until we met the Germans, of course.
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Dok nismo sreli Nijemce, naravno.
07:14
(Laughter)
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(Smijeh)
07:16
But that's a different talk,
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Al' to je druga tema,
07:18
and a different neuroscientist
needs to talk about that.
needs to talk about that.
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i drugi neuroznanstvenici
trebaju razgovarati o tome.
trebaju razgovarati o tome.
07:22
But what Brazil wanted to do
is to showcase
is to showcase
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Ali ono što je Brazil htio učiniti
jest pokazati
jest pokazati
07:24
a completely different country,
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totalno drugačiju zemlju,
07:25
a country that values science
and technology,
and technology,
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zemlju koja cijeni znanosti
i tehnologiju,
i tehnologiju,
07:28
and can give a gift to millions,
25 million people around the world
25 million people around the world
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i može darivati milijune,
25 milijuna ljudi diljem svijeta
25 milijuna ljudi diljem svijeta
07:32
that cannot move any longer
because of a spinal cord injury.
because of a spinal cord injury.
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koji se više ne mogu micati
jer imaju ozlijedu kralježnice.
jer imaju ozlijedu kralježnice.
07:35
Well, we went to the Brazilian government
and to FIFA and proposed,
and to FIFA and proposed,
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Pa, otišli smo do brazilske vlade
i FIFA nam je predložila,
i FIFA nam je predložila,
07:39
well, let's have the kickoff
of the 2014 World Cup
of the 2014 World Cup
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da prvi udarac
na prvenstvu 2014.
na prvenstvu 2014.
07:42
be given by a Brazilian paraplegic
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bude od brazilskog paraplegičara
07:44
using a brain-controlled exoskeleton
that allows him to kick the ball
that allows him to kick the ball
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koji koristi egzoskeleton kontroliran od strane
mozga koji mu omogućava da udari loptu
mozga koji mu omogućava da udari loptu
07:49
and to feel the contact of the ball.
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I osjeti kontakt s loptom.
07:52
They looked at us,
thought that we were completely nuts,
thought that we were completely nuts,
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Pogledali su nas,
misleći da smo potpuno poludjeli,
misleći da smo potpuno poludjeli,
07:54
and said, "Okay, let's try."
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I rekli „U redu, hajmo pokušati.“
07:57
We had 18 months to do everything
from zero, from scratch.
from zero, from scratch.
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Imali smo 18 mjeseci da sve napravimo.
Od nule. Od početka.
Od nule. Od početka.
08:01
We had no exoskeleton, we had no patients,
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Nismo imali niti egzoskeleton,
niti pacijenata,
niti pacijenata,
08:04
we had nothing done.
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ništa nije bilo gotovo.
08:06
These people came all together
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Ovi ljudi su se okupili
08:08
and in 18 months, we got eight patients
in a routine of training
in a routine of training
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i u roku od 18 mjeseci, dobili smo
8 pacijenata u rutinskim treninzima
8 pacijenata u rutinskim treninzima
08:12
and basically built from nothing this guy,
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i zapravo sagradili od ničega – ovo,
08:16
that we call Bra-Santos Dumont 1.
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što zovemo Bra-Santos Dumont 1.
08:21
The first brain-controlled
exoskeleton to be built
exoskeleton to be built
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Prvi egzoskeleton kontroliran
od strane mozge ikad napravljen
od strane mozge ikad napravljen
08:24
was named after the most famous
Brazilian scientist ever,
Brazilian scientist ever,
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nazvali smo ga po najslavnijem
brazilskom znanstveniku svih vremena,
brazilskom znanstveniku svih vremena,
08:28
Alberto Santos Dumont,
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Albertu Santosu Dumontu,
08:30
who, on October 19, 1901,
created and flew himself
created and flew himself
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Koji je 19.10.1901.
napravio a zatim se njime odvezao
napravio a zatim se njime odvezao
08:36
the first controlled airship on air
in Paris for a million people to see.
in Paris for a million people to see.
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u prvom kontroliranom zrakoplovu
u Parizu, pred milijunima ljudi
u Parizu, pred milijunima ljudi
08:43
Sorry, my American friends,
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Oprostite, moji američki prijatelji,
08:45
I live in North Carolina,
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ja živim u Sjevernoj Karolini,
08:47
but it was two years
before the Wright Brothers flew
before the Wright Brothers flew
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ali prošlo je dvije godine prije
nego su braća Wright doletjela
nego su braća Wright doletjela
08:52
on the coast of North Carolina.
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na obalu Sjeverne Karoline.
08:54
(Applause)
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(Pljesak)
08:57
Flight control is Brazilian.
(Laughter)
(Laughter)
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Kontrola leta je brazilska.
(Smijeh)
(Smijeh)
09:02
So we went together with these guys
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Stoga smo otišli zajedno s tim ljudima
09:05
and we basically put
this exoskeleton together,
this exoskeleton together,
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i zapravo sklopili egzoskeleton.
09:08
15 degrees of freedom,
hydraulic machine
hydraulic machine
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15 stupnjeva slobode,
hidraulični stroj
hidraulični stroj
09:11
that can be commanded by brain signals
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koji može biti kontroliran od
strane moždanih signala
strane moždanih signala
09:14
recorded by a non-invasive technology
called electroencephalography
called electroencephalography
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zabilježeno neinvanzivnom tehnologijom
zvanom elektroencefalografija.
zvanom elektroencefalografija.
09:18
that can basically allow the patient
to imagine the movements
to imagine the movements
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koja u biti dozvoljava pacijentu
da zamisli pokrete
da zamisli pokrete
09:22
and send his commands
to the controls, the motors,
to the controls, the motors,
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i pošalje komande
kontroli i motoru,
kontroli i motoru,
09:26
and get it done.
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da ih obavi.
09:27
This exoskeleton was covered
with an artificial skin
with an artificial skin
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Egzoskeleton je bio prekriven
umjetnom kožom
umjetnom kožom
09:30
invented by Gordon Cheng,
one of my greatest friends, in Munich,
one of my greatest friends, in Munich,
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koju je napravio Gordon Cheng, jedan
od mojih najboljih prijatelja, u Munchenu,
od mojih najboljih prijatelja, u Munchenu,
09:34
to allow sensation from the joints moving
and the foot touching the ground
and the foot touching the ground
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kako bi se osjetili podražaji zlgobova
koji se kreću i nogu koje dodiruju pod
koji se kreću i nogu koje dodiruju pod
09:39
to be delivered back to the patient
through a vest, a shirt.
through a vest, a shirt.
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te se vrate nazad pacijentu
kroz odijelo, majicu.
kroz odijelo, majicu.
09:43
It is a smart shirt
with micro-vibrating elements
with micro-vibrating elements
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To je pametna majica s
mikro-vibrirajućim elementima
mikro-vibrirajućim elementima
09:46
that basically delivers the feedback
and fools the patient's brain
and fools the patient's brain
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koja zapravo donosi povratnu informaciju
i vara mozak pacijenta
i vara mozak pacijenta
09:51
by creating a sensation that it is not
a machine that is carrying him,
a machine that is carrying him,
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stvarajući osjećaj da nije
stroj taj koji ga nosi,
stroj taj koji ga nosi,
09:55
but it is he who is walking again.
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već on sam hoda ponovno.
09:58
So we got this going,
and what you'll see here
and what you'll see here
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Uspjeli smo u tome,
i ovdje možete vidjeti
i ovdje možete vidjeti
10:01
is the first time one of our patients,
Bruno, actually walked.
Bruno, actually walked.
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po prvi put jedan od naših pacijenata,
Bruno, zapravo je hodao.
Bruno, zapravo je hodao.
10:06
And he takes a few seconds
because we are setting everything,
because we are setting everything,
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Treba mu nekoliko sekundi
jer pripremamo sve
jer pripremamo sve
10:08
and you are going to see a blue light
cutting in front of the helmet
cutting in front of the helmet
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i vidjet ćete plavo svjetlo
kako se urezuje u prednji dio kacige
kako se urezuje u prednji dio kacige
10:12
because Bruno is going to imagine
the movement that needs to be performed,
the movement that needs to be performed,
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jer će Bruno zamisliti
pokrete koji se trebaju obaviti,
pokrete koji se trebaju obaviti,
10:16
the computer is going to analyze it,
Bruno is going to certify it,
Bruno is going to certify it,
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računalo će ih analizirati,
Bruno će ih potvrditi,
Bruno će ih potvrditi,
10:19
and when it is certified,
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i kada su potvrđeni,
10:21
the device starts moving
under the command of Bruno's brain.
under the command of Bruno's brain.
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uređaj će krenuti s pokretima
upravljanim Bruninim mozgom.
upravljanim Bruninim mozgom.
10:24
And he just got it right,
and now he starts walking.
and now he starts walking.
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Sve je dobro prošlo,
i on sada može početi hodati.
i on sada može početi hodati.
10:29
After nine years without
being able to move,
being able to move,
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Nakon što se devet godina
nije uspio niti pokrenuti,
nije uspio niti pokrenuti,
10:32
he is walking by himself.
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ponovno samostalno hoda.
10:34
And more than that --
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I više od toga –-
10:36
(Applause) --
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(Pljesak) --
10:39
more than just walking,
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više od samog hoda,
10:41
he is feeling the ground,
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on osjeća tlo,
10:43
and if the speed of the exo goes up,
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i ako se brzina egzoa poveća,
10:45
he tells us that he is walking again
on the sand of Santos,
on the sand of Santos,
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govori nam da opet hoda
na pijesku Santosa,
na pijesku Santosa,
10:50
the beach resort where he used to go
before he had the accident.
before he had the accident.
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plaže gdje je običavao ići prije nesreće.
10:54
That's why the brain is creating
a new sensation in Bruno's head.
a new sensation in Bruno's head.
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Zato mozak stvara
novi osjećaj u Bruninoj glavi.
novi osjećaj u Bruninoj glavi.
10:57
So he walks, and at the end of the walk --
I am running out of time already --
I am running out of time already --
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On hoda, i na kraju toga --
već mi ističe vrijeme --
već mi ističe vrijeme --
11:01
he says, "You know, guys,
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kaže „Znate, ljudi,
11:04
I need to borrow this thing from you
when I get married,
when I get married,
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moram ovo čudo posuditi od vas
kad se budem ženio
kad se budem ženio
11:06
because I wanted to walk to the priest
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jer sam htio došetati do svećenika
11:09
and see my bride and actually
be there by myself.
be there by myself.
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i zapravo vidjeti mladu, biti tamo sam.
11:13
Of course, he will have it
whenever he wants.
whenever he wants.
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Naravno da će ga dobiti
kad god zaželi.
kad god zaželi.
11:16
And this is what we wanted to show
during the World Cup, and couldn't,
during the World Cup, and couldn't,
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i to je ono što smo željeli pokazati
tijekom svjetskog prvenstva, a nismo mogli
tijekom svjetskog prvenstva, a nismo mogli
11:20
because for some mysterious reason,
FIFA cut its broadcast in half.
FIFA cut its broadcast in half.
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jer je iz nekog misterioznog razloga,
FIFA odrezala dio prijenosa.
FIFA odrezala dio prijenosa.
11:25
What you are going to see very quickly
is Juliano Pinto in the exo doing the kick
is Juliano Pinto in the exo doing the kick
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Ono što ćete sad na brzinu vidjeti
je Juliano Pinto u svom egzo-udarcu
je Juliano Pinto u svom egzo-udarcu
11:33
a few minutes before we went to the pitch
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par minuta prije nego smo otišli na teren
11:35
and did the real thing
in front of the entire crowd,
in front of the entire crowd,
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i napravili pravu stvar
pred cijelom publikom,
pred cijelom publikom,
11:38
and the lights you are going to see
just describe the operation.
just describe the operation.
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i svjetla koja ćete vidjeti
samo opisuju operaciju.
samo opisuju operaciju.
11:41
Basically, the blue lights pulsating
indicate that the exo is ready to go.
indicate that the exo is ready to go.
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U biti, plavo pulsirajuće svjetlo
ukazuje na to da je egzo spreman.
ukazuje na to da je egzo spreman.
11:46
It can receive thoughts
and it can deliver feedback,
and it can deliver feedback,
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Može primati misli
i uzvratiti povratnu informaciju,
i uzvratiti povratnu informaciju,
11:49
and when Juliano
makes the decision to kick the ball,
makes the decision to kick the ball,
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i kada je Juliano
odlučio udariti loptu,
odlučio udariti loptu,
11:52
you are going to see
two streams of green and yellow light
two streams of green and yellow light
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vidjet ćete
dva slijeda zelenog i žutog svjetla
dva slijeda zelenog i žutog svjetla
11:55
coming from the helmet
and going to the legs,
and going to the legs,
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kako izlaze iz kacige
i idu prema nogama
i idu prema nogama
11:58
representing the mental commands
that were taken by the exo
that were taken by the exo
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predstavljajući mentalne naredbe
koje je napravio egzo
koje je napravio egzo
12:02
to actually make that happen.
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kako bi se one zaista dogodile.
12:04
And in basically 13 seconds,
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I u svega 13 sekundi,
12:07
Juliano actually did.
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Juliano je zapravo uspio.
12:09
You can see the commands.
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Možete vidjeti naredbe.
12:11
He gets ready,
the ball is set, and he kicks.
the ball is set, and he kicks.
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Priprema se,
lopta se namješta, i on udara.
lopta se namješta, i on udara.
12:15
And the most amazing thing is,
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A najnevjerojatnije od svega je,
12:17
10 seconds after he did that,
and looked at us on the pitch,
and looked at us on the pitch,
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10 sekundi nakon što je to napravio,
i pogledao nas na terenu,
i pogledao nas na terenu,
12:20
he told us, celebrating as you saw,
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rekao nam je, slaveći, kao što ste vidjeli,
12:22
"I felt the ball."
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„Osjetio sam loptu.“
12:25
And that's priceless.
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A to je neprocjenjivo.
12:27
(Applause)
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(Pljesak)
12:29
So where is this going to go?
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I gdje ćemo odavdje?
12:31
I have two minutes to tell you
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Imam dvije minute da vam kažem
12:33
that it's going to the limits
of your imagination.
of your imagination.
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da to ide do granica vaše mašte.
12:36
Brain-actuating technology is here.
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Tehnologija pokretana mozgom je pred nama.
12:38
This is the latest: We just
published this a year ago,
published this a year ago,
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Ovo je posljednje: to smo
objavili tek prije godinu dana
objavili tek prije godinu dana
12:41
the first brain-to-brain interface
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prvo mozak-mozak sučelje
12:43
that allows two animals
to exchange mental messages
to exchange mental messages
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koji omogućava dvjema životinjama
da razmjene mentalne poruke
da razmjene mentalne poruke
12:46
so that one animal that sees something
coming from the environment
coming from the environment
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tako da jedna životinja koja vidi nešto
što dolazi iz okoliša
što dolazi iz okoliša
12:50
can send a mental SMS,
a torpedo, a neurophysiological torpedo,
a torpedo, a neurophysiological torpedo,
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može poslati mentalni „sms“
torpedo, neurofiziološki torpedo,
torpedo, neurofiziološki torpedo,
12:56
to the second animal,
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drugoj životinji,
12:57
and the second animal performs
the act that he needed to perform
the act that he needed to perform
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a druga će životinja reagirati
na način na koji treba reagirati
na način na koji treba reagirati
13:01
without ever knowing what
the environment was sending as a message,
the environment was sending as a message,
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bez da ikad sazna
što je okoliš poslao kao poruku,
što je okoliš poslao kao poruku,
13:05
because the message came
from the first animal's brain.
from the first animal's brain.
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jer je poruka došla
od mozga prve životinje.
od mozga prve životinje.
13:09
So this is the first demo.
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Evo prvi demo.
13:11
I'm going to be very quick
because I want to show you the latest.
because I want to show you the latest.
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Bit ću veoma brz
jer vam želim pokazati najnovije.
jer vam želim pokazati najnovije.
13:15
But what you see here
is the first rat getting informed
is the first rat getting informed
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Ali ono što vidite ovdje jest
prvi štakor biva informiran
prvi štakor biva informiran
13:21
by a light that is going to show up
on the left of the cage
on the left of the cage
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svjetlom koje će se pojaviti
na lijevoj strani kaveza
na lijevoj strani kaveza
13:24
that he has to press the left cage
to basically get a reward.
to basically get a reward.
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da mora pritisnuti lijevi kavez
kako bi u biti dobio nagradu.
kako bi u biti dobio nagradu.
13:27
He goes there and does it.
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On ide tamo i napravi to.
13:29
And the same time,
he is sending a mental message
he is sending a mental message
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U isto vrijeme
šalje mentalnu poruku
šalje mentalnu poruku
13:31
to the second rat
that didn't see any light,
that didn't see any light,
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drugom štakoru
koji nije vidio nikavo svjetlo,
koji nije vidio nikavo svjetlo,
13:35
and the second rat,
in 70 percent of the times
in 70 percent of the times
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i drugi štakor, u 70 posto slučajeva
13:37
is going to press the left lever
and get a reward
and get a reward
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će također pritisnuti lijevu polugu
i dobiti nagradu
i dobiti nagradu
13:41
without ever experiencing
the light in the retina.
the light in the retina.
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bez da je ikad iskusio
svjetlo na mrežnici.
svjetlo na mrežnici.
13:45
Well, we took this
to a little higher limit
to a little higher limit
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Prenijeli smo ovo
na malo veću skalu
na malo veću skalu
13:49
by getting monkeys to collaborate
mentally in a brain net,
mentally in a brain net,
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uzevši majmune da surađuju
mentalno u moždanoj mreži,
mentalno u moždanoj mreži,
13:54
basically to donate their brain activity
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u biti da doniraju svoju moždanu aktivnost
13:56
and combine them to move
the virtual arm that I showed you before,
the virtual arm that I showed you before,
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i kombiniraju je s pokretom
vritualne ruke koju sam pokazao ranije,
vritualne ruke koju sam pokazao ranije,
14:00
and what you see here is the first time
the two monkeys combine their brains,
the two monkeys combine their brains,
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i ono što ovdje vidite je prvi put
dva majmuna kombiniraju svoje mozgove,
dva majmuna kombiniraju svoje mozgove,
14:05
synchronize their brains perfectly
to get this virtual arm to move.
to get this virtual arm to move.
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savršeno sinkronizirajući njihove mozgove
kako bi se ova virtualna ruka pomakla.
kako bi se ova virtualna ruka pomakla.
14:09
One monkey is controlling the x dimension,
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Jedan majmun kontrolira x dimenziju,
14:12
the other monkey
is controlling the y dimension.
is controlling the y dimension.
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a drugi majmun kontrolira y dimenziju.
14:14
But it gets a little more interesting
when you get three monkeys in there
when you get three monkeys in there
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Ali postaje malo zanimljivije
kad dodate još jednog majmuna ovdje
kad dodate još jednog majmuna ovdje
14:19
and you ask one monkey to control x and y,
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pa zatražite da jedan upravlja x i y,
14:22
the other monkey to control y and z,
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drugi s y i z,
14:25
and the third one to control x and z,
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a treći s x i z,
14:28
and you make them all
play the game together,
play the game together,
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i napravite da se igraju svi zajedno
14:30
moving the arm in 3D into a target
to get the famous Brazilian orange juice.
to get the famous Brazilian orange juice.
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pokrećući 3D ruku u metu kako bi se
dobio slavni brazilski sok od naranče.
dobio slavni brazilski sok od naranče.
14:36
And they actually do.
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I zapravo uspijevaju.
14:38
The black dot is the average
of all these brains working
of all these brains working
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Crna točka je prosjek
svog moždanog rada
svog moždanog rada
14:43
in parallel, in real time.
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paralelno, u realnom vremenu.
14:46
That is the definition
of a biological computer,
of a biological computer,
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To je definicija biološkog računala,
14:49
interacting by brain activity
and achieving a motor goal.
and achieving a motor goal.
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koji je u interakciji s moždanom aktivnošću
I ispunjava motoričke ciljeve.
I ispunjava motoričke ciljeve.
14:53
Where is this going?
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Gdje ovo sve vodi?
14:55
We have no idea.
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Nemamo pojma.
14:58
We're just scientists.
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Mi smo samo znanstvenici.
14:59
(Laughter)
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(Smijeh)
15:01
We are paid to be children,
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Mi smo plaćeni da budemo djeca,
15:03
to basically go to the edge
and discover what is out there.
and discover what is out there.
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da zapravo idemo do ruba
i otkrivamo što je tamo.
i otkrivamo što je tamo.
15:07
But one thing I know:
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Ali jednu stvar znam:
15:09
One day, in a few decades,
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jednog dana, za nekoliko desetljeća,
15:11
when our grandchildren
surf the Net just by thinking,
surf the Net just by thinking,
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kad naši unuci budu
surfali netom samo zamišljajući
surfali netom samo zamišljajući
15:15
or a mother donates her eyesight
to an autistic kid who cannot see,
to an autistic kid who cannot see,
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ili majka bude donirala svoj vid
autističnom djetetu koje ne može vidjeti,
autističnom djetetu koje ne može vidjeti,
15:19
or somebody speaks because
of a brain-to-brain bypass,
of a brain-to-brain bypass,
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ili netko progovori zbog
premosnice s mozga na mozak
premosnice s mozga na mozak
15:22
some of you will remember
that it all started on a winter afternoon
that it all started on a winter afternoon
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neki od vas će se sjetiti
da je sve počelo jednog zimskog popodneva
da je sve počelo jednog zimskog popodneva
15:28
in a Brazilian soccer field
with an impossible kick.
with an impossible kick.
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na brazilskom nogometnom terenu
s nemogućim udarcem.
s nemogućim udarcem.
15:32
Thank you.
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Hvala.
15:34
(Applause)
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(Pljesak)
15:43
Thank you.
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Hvala
15:59
Bruno Giussani: Miguel,
thank you for sticking to your time.
thank you for sticking to your time.
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Bruno Giussani: Miguel,
hvala što si se držao zadanog vremena.
hvala što si se držao zadanog vremena.
16:03
I actually would have given you
a couple more minutes,
a couple more minutes,
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Zapravo bih ti bio dao još par minuta
16:05
because there are a couple of points
we want to develop, and, of course,
we want to develop, and, of course,
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jer postoji još par pojedinosti
koje smo htjeli razviti, i, naravno
koje smo htjeli razviti, i, naravno
16:08
clearly it seems that we need connected
brains to figure out where this is going.
brains to figure out where this is going.
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izgleda da trebamo spojene mozgove
kako bismo skužili gdje ovo vodi.
kako bismo skužili gdje ovo vodi.
16:12
So let's connect all this together.
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Stoga hajmo spojiti sve skupa.
16:14
So if I'm understanding correctly,
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Ako sam dobro razumio,
16:16
one of the monkeys
is actually getting a signal
is actually getting a signal
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jedan od majmuna zapravo dobiva signal
16:18
and the other monkey
is reacting to that signal
is reacting to that signal
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a drugi majmun
reagira na taj signal
reagira na taj signal
16:21
just because the first one is receiving it
and transmitting the neurological impulse.
and transmitting the neurological impulse.
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samo zato jer ga je prvi majmun primio
i prenio neurološki impuls.
i prenio neurološki impuls.
16:25
Miguel Nicolelis:
No, it's a little different.
No, it's a little different.
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Miguel Nicolelis:
Ne, malo je drugačije.
Ne, malo je drugačije.
16:27
No monkey knows of the existence
of the other two monkeys.
of the other two monkeys.
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Majmun nije svjestan postojanja
ostala dva majmuna.
ostala dva majmuna.
16:30
They are getting a visual feedback in 2D,
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Oni dobivaju povratnu informaciju u 2D-u,
16:33
but the task they have
to accomplish is 3D.
to accomplish is 3D.
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ali zatadak koji trebaju obaviti je u 3D-u.
16:36
They have to move an arm
in three dimensions.
in three dimensions.
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Moraju pomicati ruku u tri dimenzije.
16:38
But each monkey is only getting
the two dimensions on the video screen
the two dimensions on the video screen
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Ali svaki majmun dobiva samo
video ekran s dvije dimenzije
video ekran s dvije dimenzije
16:42
that the monkey controls.
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koje on kontrolira.
16:44
And to get that thing done,
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I kako bi se to napravilo,
16:47
you need at least two monkeys
to synchronize their brains,
to synchronize their brains,
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trebamo najmanje dva majmuna
koji bi sinkronizirali svoje mozgove,
koji bi sinkronizirali svoje mozgove,
16:49
but the ideal is three.
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ali idealno je troje.
16:51
So what we found out is that
when one monkey starts slacking down,
when one monkey starts slacking down,
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Ono što smo saznali jest da
kad jedan majmun krene usporavati,
kad jedan majmun krene usporavati,
16:55
the other two monkeys
enhance their performance
enhance their performance
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druga dvojica poboljašaju učinkovitost
16:57
to get the guy to come back,
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kako bi „povratili“ trećega
16:59
so this adjusts dynamically,
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stoga se ovo dinamički prilagođava,
17:02
but the global synchrony remains the same.
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dok globalni sinkronicitet ostaje isti.
17:06
Now, if you flip
without telling the monkey
without telling the monkey
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E sad, ako prebaciš
bez da kažeš majmunima
bez da kažeš majmunima
17:09
the dimensions that each brain
has to control,
has to control,
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dimenziju koju svaki mozak
treba kontrolirati,
treba kontrolirati,
17:11
like this guy is controlling x and y,
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kao što ovaj kontrolira x i y,
17:13
but he should be controlling now y and z,
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a trebao bi kontrolirati x i z.
17:16
instantaneously, that animal's brain
forgets about the old dimensions
forgets about the old dimensions
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mozak životinje instantno
zaboravlja stare dimenzije
zaboravlja stare dimenzije
17:20
and it starts concentrating
on the new dimensions.
on the new dimensions.
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i počne se koncentrirati
na nove dimenzije.
na nove dimenzije.
17:23
So what I need to say is
that no Turing machine,
that no Turing machine,
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Stoga moram reći da
nijedan Turingov stroj,
nijedan Turingov stroj,
17:26
no computer can predict
what a brain net will do.
what a brain net will do.
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nijedno računalo predvidjeti
što će moždana mreža učiniti.
što će moždana mreža učiniti.
17:30
So we will absorb technology
as part of us.
as part of us.
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Stoga ćemo apsorbirati tehnologiju
kao da je dio nas.
kao da je dio nas.
17:33
Technology will never absorb us.
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Tehnologija nikad neće apsorbirati nas.
17:35
It's simply impossible.
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Jednostavno je nemoguće.
17:38
BG: How many times have you tested this?
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BG: Koliko puta ste testirali ovo?
17:41
And how many times
have you succeeded versus failed?
have you succeeded versus failed?
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I koliko puta ste uspjeli,
napsram koliko puta niste uspjeli?
napsram koliko puta niste uspjeli?
17:44
MN: Oh, tens of times.
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MN: Na desetke puta.
17:46
With the three monkeys?
Oh, several times.
Oh, several times.
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S tri majmuna?
Nekoliko puta.
Nekoliko puta.
17:48
I wouldn't be able to talk about this here
unless I had done it a few times.
unless I had done it a few times.
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Ne bih bio u stanju pričati o tome ovdje
bez da sam to napravio već nekoliko puta.
bez da sam to napravio već nekoliko puta.
17:53
And I forgot to mention, because of time,
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Zbog stiske s vremenom,
zaboravio sam spomenuti,
zaboravio sam spomenuti,
17:55
that just three weeks ago,
a European group
a European group
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da je prije samo tri tjedna,
europska grupa
europska grupa
17:59
just demonstrated the first
man-to-man brain-to-brain connection.
man-to-man brain-to-brain connection.
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demonstrirala prvu mozak-mozak
vezu između dva čovjeka.
vezu između dva čovjeka.
18:04
BG: And how does that play?
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BG: I kako to radi?
18:06
MN: There was one bit of information --
big ideas start in a humble way --
big ideas start in a humble way --
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MN: Postoji jedna sitnica --
velike ideje kreću vrlo skromno --
velike ideje kreću vrlo skromno --
18:10
but basically the brain activity
of one subject
of one subject
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ali zapravo moždana aktivnost
jednog subjekta
jednog subjekta
18:17
was transmitted to a second object,
all non-invasive technology.
all non-invasive technology.
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prebačena je na drugi subjekt
a sve neinvanzivnom tehnologijom.
a sve neinvanzivnom tehnologijom.
18:21
So the first subject got a message,
like our rats, a visual message,
like our rats, a visual message,
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Stoga je prvi subjekt dobio poruku,
kao naši štakori, vizualnu poruku,
kao naši štakori, vizualnu poruku,
18:25
and transmitted it to the second subject.
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i prenio je drugom subjektu.
18:28
The second subject received
a magnetic pulse in the visual cortex,
a magnetic pulse in the visual cortex,
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Drugi je subjekt primio
magnetski impuls u vidnom korteksu
magnetski impuls u vidnom korteksu
18:32
or a different pulse,
two different pulses.
two different pulses.
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ili drugačiji impuls,
dva drugačija impulsa.
dva drugačija impulsa.
18:36
In one pulse, the subject saw something.
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U jednom impulsu subjekt je nešto vidio.
18:38
On the other pulse,
he saw something different.
he saw something different.
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A u drugom
je vidio nešto drugo.
je vidio nešto drugo.
18:40
And he was able to verbally indicate
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I bio je sposoban verbalno naznačiti
18:42
what was the message
the first subject was sending
the first subject was sending
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kakva je poruka koju je prvi subjekt poslao
18:45
through the Internet across continents.
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kroz Internet diljem kontinenata.
18:48
Moderator: Wow.
Okay, that's where we are going.
Okay, that's where we are going.
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Moderator: Wow.
Okej, tamo idemo.
Okej, tamo idemo.
18:51
That's the next TED Talk
at the next conference.
at the next conference.
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To je sljedeći TED govor
na sljedećoj konferenciji.
na sljedećoj konferenciji.
18:53
Miguel Nicolelis, thank you.
MN: Thank you, Bruno. Thank you.
MN: Thank you, Bruno. Thank you.
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Miguel Nicolelis, hvala ti.
MN: Hvala tebi, Bruno. Hvala.
MN: Hvala tebi, Bruno. Hvala.
ABOUT THE SPEAKER
Miguel Nicolelis - NeuroscientistMiguel Nicolelis explores the limits of the brain-machine interface.
Why you should listen
At the Nicolelis Laboratory at Duke University, Miguel Nicolelis is best known for pioneering studies in neuronal population coding, Brain Machine Interfaces (BMI) and neuroprosthetics in human patients and non-human primates.His lab's work was seen, famously though a bit too briefly, when a brain-controlled exoskeleton from his lab helped Juliano Pinto, a paraplegic man, kick the first ball at the 2014 World Cup.
But his lab is thinking even bigger. They've developed an integrative approach to studying neurological disorders, including Parkinsons disease and epilepsy. The approach, they hope, will allow the integration of molecular, cellular, systems and behavioral data in the same animal, producing a more complete understanding of the nature of the neurophysiological alterations associated with these disorders. He's the author of the books Beyond Boundaries and The Relativistic Brain.
Miguel was honored as one of Foreign Policy's 2015 Global Thinkers.
Miguel Nicolelis | Speaker | TED.com