TED2014
Larry Page: Where's Google going next?
查理·罗斯 和 拉里·佩奇: Google下一步将前往何方？
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在TED2014的讲台上，查理·罗斯采访了Google CEO拉里·佩奇，话题有关他对公司未来远景的展望。其中包括有空中自行车道，互联网气球……随着佩奇讲述了公司近期对DeepMind的收购，以及正在学习新奇事物的人工智能系统，访谈变得更加有趣生动。
Larry Page - CEO of Google
Larry Page is the CEO and cofounder of Google, making him one of the ruling minds of the web. Full bio
Larry Page is the CEO and cofounder of Google, making him one of the ruling minds of the web. Full bio
Double-click the English transcript below to play the video.
00:13
Charlie Rose: So Larry sent me an email
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查理·罗斯：拉里给我发了一封邮件，
00:17
and he basically said,
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基本上他就是说，
00:18
we've got to make sure that
we don't seem like we're
we don't seem like we're
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我们得确保我们看起来不能像
00:22
a couple of middle-aged boring men.
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两个乏味的中年人。
00:27
I said, I'm flattered by that --
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我回他说，你这么讲我深感荣幸--
00:30
(Laughter) —
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（笑声）--
00:32
because I'm a bit older,
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因为我年纪大一点，
00:36
and he has a bit more net worth than I do.
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而他的净资产又比我多一点。
00:40
Larry Page: Well, thank you.
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拉里·佩奇：呵呵，谢谢。
00:42
CR: So we'll have a conversation about
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查理·罗斯：我们将要谈谈互联网，
00:45
the Internet, and we'll have a conversation Google,
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我们还会谈谈Google，
00:48
and we'll have a conversation about search
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以及搜索
00:50
and privacy,
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和隐私，
00:51
and also about your philosophy
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还有你思考的基本原则，
00:52
and a sense of how you've connected the dots
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以及你是如何把这些点点滴滴联接起来的，
00:55
and how this journey that began
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以及多年前开始的
00:57
some time ago
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这个发展历程，
00:58
has such interesting prospects.
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具有怎样的有趣前景。
01:00
Mainly we want to talk about the future.
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我们主要来讨论一下未来。
01:03
So my first question: Where is Google
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那我的第一个问题是：Google现在何处，
01:04
and where is it going?
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它要前往何方？
01:06
LP: Well, this is something we think about a lot,
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拉里·佩奇：好的，这个问题我们思考过很多，
01:08
and our mission we defined a long time ago
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我们很早以前所定下的使命
01:11
is to organize the world's information
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就是将全世界的信息组织起来
01:14
and make it universally accessible and useful.
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让全世界的人们可以获得它并且从中受益。
01:17
And people always say,
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人们总在说，
01:19
is that really what you guys are still doing?
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你们还在做这个的事情呀？
01:21
And I always kind of think about that myself,
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我自己也算是常常思考这个问题，
01:23
and I'm not quite sure.
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我还不是很确定。
01:26
But actually, when I think about search,
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但事实上，当我思考搜索时，
01:30
it's such a deep thing for all of us,
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它对我们所有人来说是个深刻的问题，
01:32
to really understand what you want,
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要真正理解你想要的是什么，
01:35
to understand the world's information,
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要理解这个世界的信息，
01:37
and we're still very much in the early stages of that,
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我们还处于非常早期的阶段，
01:40
which is totally crazy.
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这太让人着急了。
01:42
We've been at it for 15 years already,
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我们在这个领域里已有十五年，
01:45
but it's not at all done.
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但是离实现它还差得很远。
01:48
CR: When it's done, how will it be?
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查理·罗斯：当你们实现时，它会是什么样？
01:51
LP: Well, I guess,
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拉里·佩奇：我猜，
01:54
in thinking about where we're going --
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想想我们的前进方向--
01:56
you know, why is it not done? --
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你知道，为什么还没有完成？--
01:58
a lot of it is just computing's kind of a mess.
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很大程度是因为数据计算还是一团乱麻。
02:01
You know, your computer
doesn't know where you are,
doesn't know where you are,
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你知道，你的电脑并不知道你在哪里，
02:03
it doesn't know what you're doing,
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它不知道你在做什么，
02:05
it doesn't know what you know,
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它不知道你知道什么。
02:06
and a lot we've been trying to do recently
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而且近来花费了我们很大精力的事情，
02:09
is just make your devices work,
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仅仅是让你的设备工作起来，
02:12
make them understand your context.
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让它理解你的大致意图。
02:15
Google Now, you know, knows where you are,
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Google Now（一款个人助理软件）知道你人在哪里，
02:17
knows what you may need.
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知道你可能需要什么。
02:19
So really having computing
work and understand you
work and understand you
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所以让计算机真正地工作起来，理解你
02:23
and understand that information,
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并且理解这些信息，
02:25
we really haven't done that yet.
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我们真的还没有做到那一步。
02:27
It's still very, very clunky.
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它还是非常非常的不成熟。
02:29
CR: Tell me, when you look at what Google is doing,
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查理·罗斯：你讲一讲，当你看着谷歌正在做的工作，
02:31
where does Deep Mind fit?
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DeepMind应该处于什么位置？
02:34
LP: Yeah, so Deep Mind is a company
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拉里·佩奇：DeepMind 这家公司，
02:36
we just acquired recently.
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我们最近才整合进来。
02:38
It's in the U.K.
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它在英国。
02:41
First, let me tell you the way we got there,
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首先，我来讲一下我们当时的状况，
02:44
which was looking at search
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就是我们正在关注搜索，
02:46
and really understanding,
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真正地理解，
02:48
trying to understand everything,
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试图理解所有一切，
02:50
and also make the computers not clunky
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让电脑不那么不成熟，
02:52
and really understand you --
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并且真正地理解你--
02:54
like, voice was really important.
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比如，声音非常重要。
02:56
So what's the state of the art
on speech recognition?
on speech recognition?
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那么，语音识别技术的最高水平是怎样的？
02:59
It's not very good.
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它不是很好，
03:01
It doesn't really understand you.
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它并不能真正地理解你。
03:03
So we started doing machine learning research
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于是我们开展了机器学习方面的研究，
03:05
to improve that.
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来改进它，
03:06
That helped a lot.
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结果成效很大。
03:08
And we started just looking at things like YouTube.
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然后我们开始转向YouTube之类的东西。
03:10
Can we understand YouTube?
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我们可以理解YouTube吗？
03:12
But we actually ran machine learning on YouTube
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但是我们确实在Youtube上运行机器学习，
03:15
and it discovered cats, just by itself.
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它找到了猫，完全靠自己。
03:19
Now, that's an important concept.
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现在，这就是一个重要的概念。
03:21
And we realized there's really something here.
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我们就意识到，其中有些深义。
03:24
If we can learn what cats are,
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如果我们能学习什么是猫，
03:26
that must be really important.
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那一定是非常重要的。
03:28
So I think Deep Mind,
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所以我认为DeepMind，
03:31
what's really amazing about Deep Mind
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它的真正神奇之处
03:33
is that it can actually --
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在于它真的可以 --
03:35
they're learning things in this unsupervised way.
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可以自主学习，无需人的干预。
03:39
They started with video games,
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他们从视频游戏开始，
03:41
and really just, maybe I can show the video,
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真的只是，也许我可以展示一下那个视频，
03:44
just playing video games,
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只是玩视频游戏，
03:46
and learning how to do that automatically.
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并且学习怎样自动地玩。
03:48
CR: Take a look at the video games
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查理·罗斯：来看一下视频游戏，
03:50
and how machines are coming to be able
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机器是如何开始有能力
03:52
to do some remarkable things.
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做一些惊人的事情。
03:55
LP: The amazing thing about this
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拉里·佩奇：这件事的惊人之处在于，
03:56
is this is, I mean, obviously,
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我觉得很明显，
03:58
these are old games,
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这些都是老游戏，
03:59
but the system just sees what you see, the pixels,
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但是系统和你看到的完全一样，就是像素，
04:04
and it has the controls and it has the score,
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并且它能控制，能得分，
04:06
and it's learned to play all of these games,
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还有它学会了所有这些游戏，
04:09
same program.
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同一个程序。
04:10
It's learned to play all of these games
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它学会了所有这些游戏，
04:12
with superhuman performance.
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而且表现是超人级的。
04:14
We've not been able to do things like this
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在以前用电脑是做不到这样的事情的。
04:16
with computers before.
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在以前用电脑是做不到这样的事情的。
04:17
And maybe I'll just narrate this one quickly.
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我要简单说明一下，
04:20
This is boxing, and it figures out it can
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这是拳击游戏，系统计算出它可以
04:23
sort of pin the opponent down.
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将对手击败。
04:25
The computer's on the left,
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左边的是电脑，
04:27
and it's just racking up points.
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它就是要赢得高分。
04:30
So imagine if this kind
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所以设想一下，如果这样的
04:32
of intelligence were thrown at your schedule,
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智能可以应用在你的日程中，
04:34
or your information needs, or things like that.
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或是用来解决你的信息需求，或是类似的事情。
04:39
We're really just at the beginning of that,
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机器学习其实还只在起步阶段，
04:41
and that's what I'm really excited about.
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而它让我感到无比激动。
04:44
CR: When you look at all that's taken place
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查理·罗斯：当你看到DeepMind和拳击游戏
04:46
with Deep Mind and the boxing,
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上所发生的这一切，
04:49
also a part of where we're going
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并且人工智能
04:51
is artificial intelligence.
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也是我们前进的方向之一。
04:54
Where are we, when you look at that?
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你从这些能看到，我们走到哪一步了呢？
04:57
LP: Well, I think for me,
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拉里·佩奇：我认为对于我来说，
04:59
this is kind of one of the most exciting things
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这是我看到的最令人激动的事情之一，
05:00
I've seen in a long time.
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在很长时间以来。
05:02
The guy who started this company, Demis,
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创立这家公司的戴米斯
05:05
has a neuroscience and a
computer science background.
computer science background.
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拥有神经学和计算机科学的背景。
05:07
He went back to school
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他重返校园攻读博士学位，
05:09
to get his Ph.D. to study the brain.
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课题是研究大脑。
05:12
And so I think we're seeing a lot of exciting work
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所以，我觉得我们看到了许多令人激动的成果，
05:15
going on that sort of crosses computer science
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出现在神经学与计算机科学交叉的领域。
05:18
and neuroscience
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出现在神经学与计算机科学交叉的领域。
05:20
in terms of really understanding
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这些成果有关于真正去理解
05:22
what it takes to make something smart
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要怎样才能制造出智能机器，
05:24
and do really interesting things.
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然后做一些非常有趣的事情。
05:26
CR: But where's the level of it now?
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查理·罗斯：我们现在处于什么阶段呢？
05:28
And how fast do you think we are moving?
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你觉得我们的前进速度如何？
05:31
LP: Well, this is the state of the art right now,
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拉里·佩奇：这是当前达到的最高水平，
05:34
understanding cats on YouTube
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理解Youtube上的猫
05:36
and things like that,
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还有类似的事情，
05:38
improving voice recognition.
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改进语音识别技术。
05:40
We used a lot of machine learning
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我们使用了许多机器学习
05:42
to improve things incrementally,
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来逐步改进各种问题，
05:45
but I think for me, this example's really exciting,
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但我个人认为，这个例子真的非常令人激动，
05:48
because it's one program
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因为它只是一款程序
05:50
that can do a lot of different things.
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却可以做许多不同事情。
05:52
CR: I don't know if we can do this,
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查理·罗斯：我不知道这样做可不可以，
05:53
but we've got the image of the cat.
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我这儿有一张猫的图片，
05:55
It would be wonderful to see this.
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这张图意义非凡。
05:56
This is how machines looked at cats
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这就是机器如何看着猫，
05:59
and what they came up with.
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然后它们反映出来的形象。
06:00
Can we see that image?
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我们可以看下那张图片吗？
06:01
LP: Yeah.
CR: There it is. Can you see the cat?
CR: There it is. Can you see the cat?
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拉里·佩奇：好的。
查理·罗斯：这就是了。你能看到猫吗？
查理·罗斯：这就是了。你能看到猫吗？
06:03
Designed by machines, seen by machines.
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机器设计了它，然后看到了它。
06:05
LP: That's right.
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拉里·佩奇：是的。
06:07
So this is learned from just watching YouTube.
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这是仅仅通过观看Youtube学到的。
06:09
And there's no training,
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没有训练过，
06:11
no notion of a cat,
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事先没有猫的概念，
06:12
but this concept of a cat
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但是这个猫的概念挺重要的，
06:15
is something important that you would understand,
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我们都知道，
06:18
and now that the machines can kind of understand.
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而现在机器也有了一定理解。
06:20
Maybe just finishing
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也许它已经完成了搜索这部分，
06:21
also on the search part,
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也许它已经完成了搜索这部分，
06:24
it started with search, really understanding
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它从搜索开始，真正理解人的意图
06:27
people's context and their information.
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和他们的信息。
06:29
I did have a video
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我有一个视频，
06:31
I wanted to show quickly on that
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我想快速展示一下
06:33
that we actually found.
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我发现了什么。
06:35
(Video) ["Soy, Kenya"]
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（视频）[肯尼亚·索伊]
06:40
Zack Matere: Not long ago,
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扎克·马泰尔：不久之前，
06:42
I planted a crop of potatoes.
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我种了一片土豆，
06:45
Then suddenly they started
dying one after the other.
dying one after the other.
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然后突然不断地有土豆死掉了。
06:48
I checked out the books and
they didn't tell me much.
they didn't tell me much.
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我从书里查找，但没发现多少信息，
06:51
So, I went and I did a search.
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所以我去搜索了一下。
06:53
["Zack Matere, Farmer"]
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["扎克·马泰尔，农民"]
06:57
Potato diseases.
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土豆 病
07:00
One of the websites told me
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有一个网站告诉我
07:02
that ants could be the problem.
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问题可能是蚂蚁。
07:04
It said, sprinkle wood ash over the plants.
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它说，在作物上撒一些木灰。
07:06
Then after a few days the ants disappeared.
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几天之后蚂蚁消失了。
07:08
I got excited about the Internet.
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互联网让我非常激动。
07:11
I have this friend
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我有个朋友，
07:13
who really would like to expand his business.
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他很想把生意做大，
07:16
So I went with him to the cyber cafe
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于是我和他一起去了网吧，
07:20
and we checked out several sites.
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我们查看了一些网站。
07:22
When I met him next, he was going to put a windmill
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当我再次见到他的时候，
07:25
at the local school.
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他准备在当地学校建一座风车。
07:27
I felt proud because
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我觉得很高兴，
07:29
something that wasn't there before
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因为一个以前没有的东西，
07:31
was suddenly there.
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就这样突然出现了。
07:33
I realized that not everybody
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我意识到，
07:35
can be able to access
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我用上的东西
07:37
what I was able to access.
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却不是所有人都能用上。
07:39
I thought that I need to have an Internet
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我想我要有互联网，
07:40
that my grandmother can use.
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我的奶奶也可以用它。
07:42
So I thought about a notice board.
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所以我想到了一个公告栏，
07:45
A simple wooden notice board.
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一个简单的木头公告栏。
07:47
When I get information on my phone,
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我从手机上得到信息的时候，
07:49
I'm able to post the information
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我就可以把它
07:51
on the notice board.
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公布在公告栏上。
07:53
So it's basically like a computer.
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所以，它有点像个电脑，
07:56
I use the Internet to help people.
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我用互联网来帮助别人。
08:00
I think I am searching for
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我认为我是在搜索
08:03
a better life
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一个更好的生活，
08:05
for me and my neighbors.
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为我，也为我的邻居们。
08:09
So many people have access to information,
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这样许多人都可以得到信息，
08:13
but there's no follow-up to that.
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但是在这之后就没有后续了。
08:15
I think the follow-up to that is our knowledge.
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我认为“后续”就是我们的知识。
08:18
When people have the knowledge,
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人们有了知识，
08:19
they can find solutions
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他们就可以找到方法，
08:21
without having to helped out.
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而不需要找人帮忙。
08:23
Information is powerful,
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信息就是力量，
08:25
but it is how we use it that will define us.
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但是如何使用信息才决定了我们的未来。
08:30
(Applause)
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（掌声）
08:34
LP: Now, the amazing thing about that video,
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拉里·佩奇：这段视频的精彩这处在于，
08:37
actually, was we just read about it in the news,
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其实是我们先在新闻里看到这件事，
08:38
and we found this gentlemen,
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然后我们找到了这位先生，
08:41
and made that little clip.
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制作了这段视频。
08:43
CR: When I talk to people about you,
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查理·罗斯：当我和别人说起你，
08:44
they say to me, people who know you well, say,
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他们是些很了解你的人，他们对我说，
08:47
Larry wants to change the world,
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拉里想要改变世界，
08:49
and he believes technology can show the way.
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他相信技术可以指出道路，
08:53
And that means access to the Internet.
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也就是接入互联网。
08:55
It has to do with languages.
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这一定和语言有关。
08:56
It also means how people can get access
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这也意味着，人们要如何访问互联网，
08:59
and do things that will affect their community,
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来做一些事情，会影响到他所在的群体。
09:02
and this is an example.
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这就是一个例子。
09:04
LP: Yeah, that's right, and I think for me,
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拉里·佩奇：是的，对我来说，
09:08
I have been focusing on access more,
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我一直关注于更广泛和便利的网络联接，
09:10
if we're talking about the future.
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如果我们说的是未来的话。
09:13
We recently released this Loon Project
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我们最近推出了Loon Project项目，
09:15
which is using balloons to do it.
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用热气球来实现接入互联网，
09:18
It sounds totally crazy.
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听起来很疯狂。
09:19
We can show the video here.
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我们可以在这里放一下视频。
09:22
Actually, two out of three people in the world
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事实上，现在世界上有三分之二的人
09:23
don't have good Internet access now.
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无法访问互联网。
09:26
We actually think this can really help people
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我们认为这个项目真的可以帮助人们，
09:29
sort of cost-efficiently.
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并且费用低廉。
09:31
CR: It's a balloon.
LP: Yeah, get access to the Internet.
LP: Yeah, get access to the Internet.
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查理·罗斯：这是一个气球。
拉里·佩奇：是的，可以联网。
拉里·佩奇：是的，可以联网。
09:34
CR: And why does this balloon give you access
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查理·罗斯：为什么通过这个气球就可以联网？
09:36
to the Internet?
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查理·罗斯：为什么通过这个气球就可以联网？
09:37
Because there was some interesting things
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因为你得想出一些有趣的办法，
09:39
you had to do to figure out how
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因为你得想出一些有趣的办法，
09:40
to make balloons possible,
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来让气球的办法成为可能，
09:43
they didn't have to be tethered.
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还不用给气球插上线。
09:44
LP: Yeah, and this is a good example of innovation.
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拉里·佩奇：是的，这一个关于创新的好例子。
09:46
Like, we've been thinking about this idea
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在我们开始着手之前，
09:49
for five years or more
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我们已经在思考这个想法了，
09:51
before we started working on it,
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有五年甚至更久，
09:52
but it was just really,
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但问题在于，
09:54
how do we get access points up high, cheaply?
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如何才能便宜地在天上设一个接入点？
09:57
You normally have to use satellites
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通常的办法得用人造卫星，
09:59
and it takes a long time to launch them.
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但发射需要很长时间。
10:02
But you saw there how easy it is to launch a balloon
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然后我们就看到，把一个气球放到天上，
10:04
and get it up,
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是多么简单的事，
10:06
and actually again, it's the power of the Internet,
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事实上，这再一次说明了互联网的力量。
10:08
I did a search on it,
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我确实搜索过这件事，
10:10
and I found, 30, 40 years ago,
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我发现三四十年前
10:12
someone had put up a balloon
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就有人放出过一个气球，
10:14
and it had gone around the Earth multiple times.
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而且这个气球绕着地球转了不少圈。
10:17
And I thought, why can't we do that today?
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然后我想，为什么今天我们不可以做呢？
10:20
And that's how this project got going.
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这个项目就这样开始了。
10:22
CR: But are you at the mercy of the wind?
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查理·罗斯：但是你受到风的影响大吗？
10:24
LP: Yeah, but it turns out,
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拉里·佩奇：是的，但实际上，
10:26
we did some weather simulations
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我们做了一些气象模拟，
10:28
which probably hadn't really been done before,
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很可能以前从来没人做过，
10:30
and if you control the altitude of the balloons,
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如果控制气球的高度，
10:32
which you can do by pumping air into them
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可以通过充气或别的方法实现，
10:35
and other ways,
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可以通过充气或别的方法实现，
10:37
you can actually control roughly where they go,
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就可以大致控制气球的运动，
10:40
and so I think we can build a worldwide mesh
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因此，我想我们可以建造一个世界性网络，
10:42
of these balloons that can cover the whole planet.
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用这些气球来覆盖全球。
10:45
CR: Before I talk about the future and transportation,
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查理·罗斯：在我们谈谈未来和交通之前－－
10:47
where you've been a nerd for a while,
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这两样你已经痴迷了有一段时间。
10:49
and this fascination you have with transportation
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你对交通、
10:52
and automated cars and bicycles,
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自动驾驶汽车和自行车相当痴迷－－
10:54
let me talk a bit about what's been the subject here
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我先提一下有关爱德华·斯诺登的话题，
10:55
earlier with Edward Snowden.
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稍早之前也是TED主题，
10:58
It is security and privacy.
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事关安全与隐私。
11:01
You have to have been thinking about that.
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这个问题你一定一直有所考虑。
11:03
LP: Yeah, absolutely.
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拉里·佩奇：是的，毫无疑问。
11:05
I saw the picture of Sergey with
Edward Snowden yesterday.
Edward Snowden yesterday.
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昨天我看到了谢尔盖和爱德华·斯诺登的照片。
11:07
Some of you may have seen it.
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在座的有些人应该也看到了。
11:10
But I think, for me, I guess,
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但我个人觉得，
11:14
privacy and security are a really important thing.
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隐私和安全是非常重要的事情。
11:17
We think about it in terms of both things,
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我们在这两方面都有所思考，
11:19
and I think you can't have privacy without security,
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我认为没有安全就不存在隐私，
11:22
so let me just talk about security first,
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所以我先谈谈安全，
11:25
because you asked about Snowden and all of that,
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因为你问到了有关斯诺登的事情，
11:27
and then I'll say a little bit about privacy.
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然后我会再讲一点隐私。
11:30
I think for me, it's tremendously disappointing
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我个人感到极度失望，
11:34
that the government
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就是政府偷偷地做了所有这些事，
11:35
secretly did all this stuff and didn't tell us.
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而且没有告诉我们。
11:37
I don't think we can have a democracy
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我认为这样背离了民主，
11:41
if we're having to protect you and our users
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如果有些事大家还从未讨论过，
11:44
from the government
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而我们不得不防止政府
11:46
for stuff that we've never had a conversation about.
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来侵犯你和我们的用户的这些事情，
11:49
And I don't mean we have to know
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我倒不是说我们必须知道
11:50
what the particular terrorist attack is they're worried
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政府所担心的具体的恐怖袭击是什么，
11:52
about protecting us from,
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政府所担心的具体的恐怖袭击是什么，
11:54
but we do need to know
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而是我们需要知道
11:56
what the parameters of it is,
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事情应当符合什么条件，
11:58
what kind of surveillance the government's
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政府要进行何种监控，
12:00
going to do and how and why,
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打算怎么做，为什么这样做，
12:02
and I think we haven't had that conversation.
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我认为我们并没有讨论过这些问题。
12:05
So I think the government's actually done
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所以我认为政府偷偷地做了所有这些事情，
12:07
itself a tremendous disservice
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实际上造成了严重的伤害。
12:09
by doing all that in secret.
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实际上造成了严重的伤害。
12:11
CR: Never coming to Google
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查理·罗斯：绝不要找Google
12:13
to ask for anything.
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要任何东西。
12:15
LP: Not Google, but the public.
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拉里·佩奇：不是Google，而是公众。
12:17
I think we need to
have a debate about that,
have a debate about that,
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我认为我们需要讨论一下这个问题，
12:20
or we can't have a functioning democracy.
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否则我们的民主就名不副实。
12:23
It's just not possible.
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这不可能称为民主。
12:24
So I'm sad that Google's
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所以Google处在了这样一个位置上，
12:27
in the position of protecting you and our users
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要防止政府偷偷做这些我们根本不知道的事情，
12:29
from the government
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防止它侵犯你和我们的用户，
12:31
doing secret thing that nobody knows about.
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这让我觉得荒唐，
12:33
It doesn't make any sense.
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这毫无道理。
12:35
CR: Yeah. And then there's a privacy side of it.
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查理·罗斯：没错，然后还有隐私方面的问题。
12:38
LP: Yes. The privacy side,
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2427
拉里·佩奇：是的，还有隐私一面，
12:40
I think it's -- the world is changing.
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我认为，世界正在变化。
12:42
You carry a phone. It knows where you are.
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你带个手机，它知道你在哪里。
12:46
There's so much more information about you,
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还有许多你的个人信息，
12:49
and that's an important thing,
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这是件非常重要的事情，
12:52
and it makes sense why people are asking
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人们因此而提出难以回答的问题，
12:54
difficult questions.
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是合情合理的。
12:56
We spend a lot of time thinking about this
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我们花了很多时间去思考这一点，
13:00
and what the issues are.
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以及问题所在。
13:02
I'm a little bit --
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我有一点--
13:04
I think the main thing that we need to do
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我认为我们需要做的事情里最主要的一点，
13:05
is just provide people choice,
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就是让人们可以选择，
13:08
show them what data's being collected --
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告诉他们什么数据会被收集--
13:10
search history, location data.
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搜索记录，位置信息。
13:15
We're excited about incognito mode in Chrome,
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我们对于Chrome浏览器的匿名模式感到很兴奋，
13:18
and doing that in more ways,
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将它应用到更多的方面，
13:20
just giving people more choice
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也就是给予人们更多选择，
13:21
and more awareness of what's going on.
332
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让他们更好地认识到发生了什么事。
13:25
I also think it's very easy.
333
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我也认为这非常简单。
13:27
What I'm worried is that we throw out
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我所担心的是，
13:28
the baby with the bathwater.
335
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我们把孩子和洗澡水一起倒掉了。
13:30
And I look at, on your show, actually,
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我看到，在你的节目上，
13:33
I kind of lost my voice,
337
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我嗓子有点哑了，
13:35
and I haven't gotten it back.
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我还没有恢复。
13:36
I'm hoping that by talking to you
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我希望和你聊聊
13:38
I'm going to get it back.
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能恢复得快一点。
13:40
CR: If I could do anything, I would do that.
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查理·罗斯：如果我能帮上什么忙，我一定会帮。
13:41
LP: All right. So get out your voodoo doll
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拉里·佩奇：那好，拿出你的劈邪宝剑，
13:44
and whatever you need to do.
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该怎么做你就尽管做。
13:46
But I think, you know what, I look at that,
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但是我认为，我看着这件事，
13:48
I made that public,
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我把它公开化了，
13:50
and I got all this information.
346
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我得到了所有这些信息。
13:51
We got a survey done on medical conditions
347
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我做过一个关于身体状况的调查，
13:54
with people who have similar issues,
348
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调查对象都有些类似的问题。
13:57
and I look at medical records, and I say,
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我一边看着医疗记录，一边说，
14:02
wouldn't it be amazing
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如果每个人的医疗记录
14:04
if everyone's medical records were available
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都可以匿名地提供给
14:06
anonymously
352
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做研究的医生，
14:07
to research doctors?
353
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2636
那岂不是很好？
14:10
And when someone accesses your medical record,
354
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3041
当有人查看你的医疗记录时，
14:13
a research doctor,
355
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1609
一个做研究的医生，
14:15
they could see, you could see which doctor
356
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2634
他们可以看到，你也可以看到
14:17
accessed it and why,
357
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是哪一位医生看了，和为什么要看，
14:19
and you could maybe learn about
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然后你也许可以了解到
14:21
what conditions you have.
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你的状况如何。
14:22
I think if we just did that,
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我认为如果我们做到这一点，
14:24
we'd save 100,000 lives this year.
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这一年里就可以拯救十万人的生命。
14:26
CR: Absolutely. Let me go — (Applause)
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查理·罗斯：毫无疑问。我想要--（掌声）
14:29
LP: So I guess I'm just very worried that
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拉里·佩奇：所以我想我就是非常担心
14:32
with Internet privacy,
364
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这件事与互联网隐私的问题。
14:34
we're doing the same thing we're
doing with medical records,
doing with medical records,
365
862043
2300
我们现在面对的问题和面对医疗记录时一样，
14:36
is we're throwing out the baby with the bathwater,
366
864347
2529
就是我们把孩子和洗澡水一起倒掉了，
14:38
and we're not really thinking
367
866876
1828
我们没有真正地思考过
14:40
about the tremendous good that can come
368
868704
2210
信息共享带来的巨大益处，
14:42
from people sharing information
369
870914
2191
人们分享信息，
14:45
with the right people in the right ways.
370
873105
2577
要与正确的人分享，并且用正确的方式。
14:47
CR: And the necessary condition
371
875682
2237
查理·罗斯：还有一个必要条件，
14:49
that people have to have confidence
372
877919
1702
就是人们得有信心，
14:51
that their information will not be abused.
373
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2455
相信他们的信息不会被滥用。
14:54
LP: Yeah, and I had this problem with my voice stuff.
374
882076
1777
拉里·佩奇：是的，我在我的声音上有同样的问题，
14:55
I was scared to share it.
375
883853
1508
我害怕分享出来。
14:57
Sergey encouraged me to do that,
376
885361
1890
谢尔盖鼓励我这么做，
14:59
and it was a great thing to do.
377
887251
1827
这件事非常值得一做。
15:01
CR: And the response has been overwhelming.
378
889078
1734
查理·罗斯：而且大家的反应出奇地好。
15:02
LP: Yeah, and people are super positive.
379
890812
1660
拉里·佩奇；是的，而且人们的反应极为正面。
15:04
We got thousands and thousands of people
380
892472
2833
我们调查了成千上万的人，
15:07
with similar conditions,
381
895305
1288
都有类似的状况，
15:08
which there's no data on today.
382
896593
3028
而这些数据至今都是没有的。
15:11
So it was a really good thing.
383
899621
1356
所以这是一件非常好的事情。
15:12
CR: So talking about the future, what is it about you
384
900977
3019
查理·罗斯：说到未来，你怎么看？
15:15
and transportation systems?
385
903996
3758
还有交通问题？
15:19
LP: Yeah. I guess I was just frustrated
386
907754
2177
拉里·佩奇：我在密歇根州读大学的时候，
15:21
with this when I was at college in Michigan.
387
909931
2539
我是感到非常沮丧的。
15:24
I had to get on the bus and take it
388
912470
1450
我必须坐公共汽车，
15:25
and wait for it.
389
913920
1642
还要等它。
15:27
And it was cold and snowing.
390
915562
2179
当时很冷，又在下雪。
15:29
I did some research on how much it cost,
391
917741
2655
我就做了一点研究，公共交通的成本问题，
15:32
and I just became a bit obsessed
with transportation systems.
with transportation systems.
392
920396
6425
然后我就有点迷上了交通系统。
15:38
CR: And that began the idea of an automated car.
393
926821
2370
查理·罗斯：于是就有了自动驾驶汽车的想法。
15:41
LP: Yeah, about 18 years ago I learned about
394
929191
1694
拉里·佩奇：是的，大约18年前我了解到
15:42
people working on automated cars,
395
930885
3182
有人在研究自动驾驶，
15:46
and I became fascinated by that,
396
934067
1623
我被深深地吸引住了，
15:47
and it takes a while to
get these projects going,
get these projects going,
397
935690
2777
让这些项目有所进展得花点时间，
15:50
but I'm super excited about the possibilities of that
398
938467
5097
但是想到有可能让世界变得更好，
15:55
improving the world.
399
943564
1668
我感到无比激动。
15:57
There's 20 million people or more injured per year.
400
945232
4526
每年有超过两千万人受伤。
16:01
It's the leading cause of death
401
949758
1986
这是美国34岁以下人群
16:03
for people under 34 in the U.S.
402
951744
2130
死亡的主要原因。
16:05
CR: So you're talking about saving lives.
403
953874
1551
查理·罗斯：所以这么说就是拯救生命了。
16:07
LP: Yeah, and also saving space
404
955425
2355
拉里·佩奇：是的，也是节省空间
16:09
and making life better.
405
957780
3915
和让生活更美好。
16:13
Los Angeles is half parking lots and roads,
406
961695
4245
在洛杉矶一半的土地都是停车场和道路，
16:17
half of the area,
407
965940
1733
一半的土地，
16:19
and most cities are not far behind, actually.
408
967673
2827
而且大部分城市其实也差不多了。
16:22
It's just crazy
409
970500
1564
这实在是太疯狂了，
16:24
that that's what we use our space for.
410
972064
1593
我们把空间就用来作这个用途。
16:25
CR: And how soon will we be there?
411
973657
2343
查理·罗斯：我们什么时候可以实现？
16:28
LP: I think we can be there very, very soon.
412
976000
1926
拉里·佩奇：我想非常、非常快就可以实现了。
16:29
We've driven well over 100,000 miles
413
977926
3501
我们已经良好运行了十万英里（16万公里），
16:33
now totally automated.
414
981427
4093
现在完全是自动行驶。
16:37
I'm super excited about getting that out quickly.
415
985520
3652
能够这么快地实现它，让我无比激动。
16:41
CR: But it's not only you're
talking about automated cars.
talking about automated cars.
416
989172
2405
查理·罗斯：但你考虑的不只是自动驾驶汽车，
16:43
You also have this idea for bicycles.
417
991577
2386
你对自行车也有这样的想法。
16:45
LP: Well at Google, we got this idea
418
993963
2246
拉里·佩奇：在Google，我们有一个想法，
16:48
that we should just provide free bikes to everyone,
419
996209
3451
我们应该向每一个人提供免费自行车，
16:51
and that's been amazing, most of the trips.
420
999660
2768
这非常棒，对大多数旅行都是。
16:54
You see bikes going everywhere,
421
1002428
1586
你看，自行车哪里都可以去，
16:56
and the bikes wear out.
422
1004014
1566
而自行车会磨损，
16:57
They're getting used 24 hours a day.
423
1005580
1454
它一天24小时都在使用。
16:59
CR: But you want to put them above the street, too.
424
1007034
2160
查理·罗斯：但你也想把自行车放到街道上。
17:01
LP: Well I said, how do we get people
425
1009194
1575
拉里·佩奇：我就说，
17:02
using bikes more?
426
1010769
1527
怎样才可以让人们更多地使用自行车呢？
17:04
CR: We may have a video here.
427
1012296
1625
查理·罗斯：我们这儿有一段视频。
17:05
LP: Yeah, let's show the video.
428
1013921
1278
拉里·佩奇：好，我们来放一下视频，
17:07
I just got excited about this.
429
1015199
3092
这个让我非常激动。
17:10
(Music)
430
1018291
4042
（音乐）
17:16
So this is actually how you might separate
431
1024213
2425
其实这就是把自行车与汽车分离开来的方法，
17:18
bikes from cars with minimal cost.
432
1026638
3629
而且代价最小。
17:26
Anyway, it looks totally crazy,
433
1034711
1755
当然了，看起来很疯狂，
17:28
but I was actually thinking about our campus,
434
1036466
2327
但实际上我考虑的是我们的校园，
17:30
working with the Zippies and stuff,
435
1038793
2060
和许多城市等等一起合作，
17:32
and just trying to get a lot more bike usage,
436
1040853
2298
就是想大大提高自行车使用率，
17:35
and I was thinking about,
437
1043151
1548
我还在想，
17:36
how do you cost-effectively separate
438
1044699
2831
我们怎样才能有效并且廉价地
17:39
the bikes from traffic?
439
1047530
1414
把自行车从车流中分离开来？
17:40
And I went and searched,
440
1048944
1150
我做了研究，
17:42
and this is what I found.
441
1050094
1371
这就是我所得到的。
17:43
And we're not actually working on this,
442
1051465
1845
我们其实没有研究这个，
17:45
that particular thing,
443
1053310
1292
我是说这个具体方案，
17:46
but it gets your imagination going.
444
1054602
2054
但它扩展了想象力。
17:48
CR: Let me close with this.
445
1056656
1764
查理·罗斯：我们把这个话题先告一段落，
17:50
Give me a sense of the philosophy
of your own mind.
of your own mind.
446
1058420
2345
描述一下你的想法有着怎样的基本原则。
17:52
You have this idea of [Google X].
447
1060765
2488
你有了Google X这个想法，
17:55
You don't simply want
448
1063253
2996
你想要的不只是一些
17:58
to go in some small, measurable arena of progress.
449
1066249
5596
小的，规模有限的舞台。
18:03
LP: Yeah, I think
450
1071845
1713
拉里·佩奇：是的，我认为
18:05
many of the things we just
talked about are like that,
talked about are like that,
451
1073558
2131
我们刚讨论过的许多事情就是这样，
18:07
where they're really --
452
1075689
2952
它们真是--
18:10
I almost use the economic concept of additionality,
453
1078641
3630
我差点要用经济学概念上的额外性了，
18:14
which means that you're doing something
454
1082271
2190
就是说，你要做的事情本来并不会发生，
18:16
that wouldn't happen unless
you were actually doing it.
you were actually doing it.
455
1084461
2948
除非你是真的在做它。
18:19
And I think the more you can do things like that,
456
1087409
3140
我认为这样的事情你做得越多，
18:22
the bigger impact you have,
457
1090549
2071
你获得的影响就越大，
18:24
and that's about doing things
458
1092620
2990
人们也许认为不可能的事情
18:27
that people might not think are possible.
459
1095610
3607
就应当这样做。
18:31
And I've been amazed,
460
1099217
1829
我惊讶地发现，
18:33
the more I learn about technology,
461
1101046
2229
我懂得的技术越多，
18:35
the more I realize I don't know,
462
1103275
2196
就越意识到自己的不足。
18:37
and that's because this technological horizon,
463
1105471
3337
这是因为技术的眼界提高了，
18:40
the thing that you can see to do next,
464
1108808
2897
也就是你预见下一步应当怎么做的能力。
18:43
the more you learn about technology,
465
1111705
1840
你懂得的技术越多，
18:45
the more you learn what's possible.
466
1113545
2602
你就越知道什么是可能的。
18:48
You learn that the balloons are possible
467
1116147
2246
你现在知道气球项目是可能的，
18:50
because there's some material
that will work for them.
that will work for them.
468
1118393
2337
因为有了一些材料让它可以运作起来。
18:52
CR: What's interesting about
you too, though, for me,
you too, though, for me,
469
1120730
2379
查理·罗斯：不过在我看来，你的有趣之处在于，
18:55
is that, we have lots of people
470
1123109
1711
有很多的人在思考未来，
18:56
who are thinking about the future,
471
1124820
2142
有很多的人在思考未来，
18:58
and they are going and looking
and they're coming back,
and they're coming back,
472
1126962
3268
他们去了看了看，又回来了，
19:02
but we never see the implementation.
473
1130230
2127
而我们从来没有看到最终实现。
19:04
I think of somebody you knew
474
1132357
1605
我想到了一个人，你一定知道，
19:05
and read about, Tesla.
475
1133962
2907
特斯拉。
19:08
The principle of that for you is what?
476
1136869
3804
你在这方面的原则是怎样的？
19:12
LP: Well, I think invention is not enough.
477
1140673
1785
拉里·佩奇：我认为仅仅有发明是不够的。
19:14
If you invent something,
478
1142458
1221
如果你发明一样东西，
19:15
Tesla invented electric power that we use,
479
1143679
3195
特斯拉发明了电力系统，我们现在用的就是，
19:18
but he struggled to get it out to people.
480
1146874
2661
但是他推广起来就非常困难，
19:21
That had to be done by other people.
481
1149535
1684
普及是由别人实现的，
19:23
It took a long time.
482
1151219
1626
花费了很长时间。
19:24
And I think if we can actually combine both things,
483
1152845
3867
我认为，如果我们能将二者真正结合起来，
19:28
where we have an innovation and invention focus,
484
1156712
3531
同时着眼于创新与发明，
19:32
plus the ability to really -- a company
485
1160243
2972
再加上一家公司，
19:35
that can really commercialize things
486
1163215
1998
可以使成果真正商业化，
19:37
and get them to people
487
1165213
1630
让人们接触到它，
19:38
in a way that's positive for the world
488
1166843
2075
让它对世界有积极地影响，
19:40
and to give people hope.
489
1168918
2056
并给人们带来希望。
19:42
You know, I'm amazed with the Loon Project
490
1170974
2774
你知道，大家对气球项目的关注程度
19:45
just how excited people were about that,
491
1173748
2786
让我很是吃惊，
19:48
because it gave them hope
492
1176534
1814
因为它带来了希望，
19:50
for the two thirds of the world
493
1178348
1621
对于世界上现在还不能上网的三分之二来说，
19:51
that doesn't have Internet right now that's any good.
494
1179969
2726
这怎样都是好事。
19:54
CR: Which is a second thing about corporations.
495
1182695
2122
查理·罗斯：这就是关于公司的第二件事。
19:56
You are one of those people who believe
496
1184817
2476
有些人，包括你，认为，
19:59
that corporations are an agent of change
497
1187293
2317
公司可以成为带来改变的媒介，
20:01
if they are run well.
498
1189610
1471
如果它能运营良好的话。
20:03
LP: Yeah. I'm really dismayed
499
1191081
1821
拉里·佩奇：是的，大部分人认为公司基本上都是邪恶的，
20:04
most people think companies are basically evil.
500
1192902
3294
这让我很是沮丧，
20:08
They get a bad rap.
501
1196196
1766
这么说并不公正，
20:09
And I think that's somewhat correct.
502
1197962
2241
但我认为在某程度上又是正确的。
20:12
Companies are doing the same incremental thing
503
1200203
2870
公司做的事情就是渐进发展，
20:15
that they did 50 years ago
504
1203073
1763
五十年前的公司就这样做，
20:16
or 20 years ago.
505
1204836
1631
或者说二十年前，
20:18
That's not really what we need.
506
1206467
1370
这也并非是我们真正需要的。
20:19
We need, especially in technology,
507
1207837
2218
我们需要的是，特别是在技术上，
20:22
we need revolutionary change,
508
1210055
2117
是革命性改变，
20:24
not incremental change.
509
1212172
1413
而不是渐进式改变。
20:25
CR: You once said, actually,
510
1213585
1169
查理·罗斯：你曾说过，
20:26
as I think I've got this about right,
511
1214754
1818
我希望我的理解是对的，
20:28
that you might consider,
512
1216572
1645
就是，你可能考虑，
20:30
rather than giving your money,
513
1218217
1753
相比于直接捐出你的钱，
20:31
if you were leaving it to some cause,
514
1219970
3320
你更愿意用于某些事业，
20:35
just simply giving it to Elon Musk,
515
1223290
2006
只管给伊隆·马斯克就好了，
20:37
because you had confidence
516
1225296
1163
因为你相信
20:38
that he would change the future,
517
1226459
1842
他会改变未来，
20:40
and that you would therefore —
518
1228301
1777
因此你就会--
20:42
LP: Yeah, if you want to go Mars,
519
1230078
1584
拉里·佩奇：是的，如果你想去火星，
20:43
he wants to go to Mars,
520
1231662
1721
他想去火星，
20:45
to back up humanity,
521
1233383
1971
来为人类探索后备方案，
20:47
that's a worthy goal, but it's a company,
522
1235354
1672
这个目标很有价值，但这是一个公司，
20:49
and it's philanthropical.
523
1237026
2555
这是慈善事业。
20:51
So I think we aim to do kind of similar things.
524
1239581
2952
所以我觉得我们的目标是做些类似的事情。
20:54
And I think, you ask, we have a lot of employees
525
1242533
2987
你问过，我们在Google有许多员工，
20:57
at Google who have become pretty wealthy.
526
1245520
3315
他们非常富有，
21:00
People make a lot of money in technology.
527
1248835
2520
通过技术赚了很多钱，
21:03
A lot of people in the room are pretty wealthy.
528
1251355
2156
很多人都非常富有。
21:05
You're working because you
want to change the world.
want to change the world.
529
1253511
2314
你工作的目的是想要改变世界，
21:07
You want to make it better.
530
1255825
1762
你想让世界变得更好。
21:09
Why isn't the company that you work for
531
1257587
3445
你既然为这家公司工作，
21:13
worthy not just of your time
532
1261032
1943
为什么不值得为它投入你的时间，
21:14
but your money as well?
533
1262975
2151
还有你的金钱呢？
21:17
I mean, but we don't have a concept of that.
534
1265126
1722
我的意思是，我们并不这样认为，
21:18
That's not how we think about companies,
535
1266848
2304
我们也不是这样看待公司的。
21:21
and I think it's sad,
536
1269152
1467
我也觉得很伤感，
21:22
because companies are most of our effort.
537
1270619
3767
因为我们所付出的努力绝大部分都花在了公司上。
21:26
They're where most of people's time is,
538
1274386
2515
人们在这里付出了最多的时间，
21:28
where a lot of the money is,
539
1276901
1854
也花费了许多金钱，
21:30
and so I think I'd like for us to help out
540
1278755
2352
所以我想我要帮助大家，
21:33
more than we are.
541
1281107
1126
而不是只顾自己。
21:34
CR: When I close conversations with lots of people,
542
1282233
1721
查理·罗斯：我跟许多人的谈话结束时，
21:35
I always ask this question:
543
1283954
1779
我总是问这样的一个问题：
21:37
What state of mind,
544
1285733
1515
什么样的心理状态，
21:39
what quality of mind is it
545
1287248
1809
什么样的精神品质，
21:41
that has served you best?
546
1289057
1767
让你最为受益‘？
21:42
People like Rupert Murdoch have said curiosity,
547
1290824
2521
像鲁珀特·默多克这样的人说是好奇心，
21:45
and other people in the media have said that.
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别的媒体人士也这样说。
21:47
Bill Gates and Warren Buffett have said focus.
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比尔·盖茨和沃伦·巴菲特说是专注，
21:50
What quality of mind,
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在我与观众说再见之际，
21:52
as I leave this audience,
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什么样的精神品质
21:53
has enabled you to think about the future
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使得你能够思考未来，
21:57
and at the same time
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而且与此同时，
21:58
change the present?
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改变现在？
22:01
LP: You know, I think the most important thing --
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拉里·佩奇：我认为最重要的事情，
22:02
I looked at lots of companies
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我见过很多公司，
22:04
and why I thought they don't succeed over time.
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为什么我认为它们没能经受时间的考验。
22:07
We've had a more rapid turnover of companies.
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如今公司的人员流动更快，
22:10
And I said, what did they fundamentally do wrong?
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我问，他们出错的根源是什么？
22:13
What did those companies all do wrong?
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这些公司都错在了哪里？
22:15
And usually it's just that they missed the future.
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通常仅仅是因为他们错失了未来。
22:18
And so I think, for me,
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所以在我看来，
22:21
I just try to focus on that and say,
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我就是专注于这一点，并且在想，
22:23
what is that future really going to be
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未来将真正走向何方，
22:25
and how do we create it,
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我们要如何创造未来，
22:27
and how do we cause our organization,
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我们怎样才能让我们的组织
22:32
to really focus on that
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真正专注于它，
22:34
and drive that at a really high rate?
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并且很快地行动呢？
22:38
And so that's been curiosity,
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所以那就是好奇心，
22:39
it's been looking at things
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去寻找人们
22:41
people might not think about,
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可能没有想过的东西，
22:42
working on things that no one else is working on,
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研究别人所没有研究过的东西，
22:45
because that's where the additionality really is,
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因为那才是真正的额外性，
22:49
and be willing to do that,
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同时乐于去做，
22:50
to take that risk.
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乐于承担风险。
22:52
Look at Android.
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看看安卓，
22:53
I felt guilty about working on Android
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为安卓而工作曾让我感到内疚，
22:56
when it was starting.
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在它刚起步时，
22:57
It was a little startup we bought.
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我们收购它时，它只是很小的一步。
22:59
It wasn't really what we were really working on.
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它当时也不是我们真正努力的方向。
23:02
And I felt guilty about spending time on that.
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为它花时间让我感到内疚，
23:04
That was stupid.
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那真是非常愚蠢。
23:05
That was the future, right?
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那其实就是未来，对吧？
23:07
That was a good thing to be working on.
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那是个很棒的东西，值得为之努力。
23:09
CR: It is great to see you here.
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查理·罗斯：很高兴在这里见到你，
23:10
It's great to hear from you,
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很高兴听到你的讲述，
23:12
and a pleasure to sit at this table with you.
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和你一起坐在这里也是我的荣幸。
23:14
Thanks, Larry.
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谢谢拉里。
23:15
LP: Thank you.
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拉里·佩奇：谢谢你。
23:17
(Applause)
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（掌声）
23:21
CR: Larry Page.
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查理·罗斯：拉里·佩奇。
ABOUT THE SPEAKER
Larry Page - CEO of GoogleLarry Page is the CEO and cofounder of Google, making him one of the ruling minds of the web.
Why you should listen
Larry Page and Sergey Brin met in grad school at Stanford in the mid-'90s, and in 1996 started working on a search technology based on a new idea: that relevant results come from context. Their technology analyzed the number of times a given website was linked to by other sites — assuming that the more links, the more relevant the site — and ranked sites accordingly. In 1998, they opened Google in a garage-office in Menlo Park. In 1999 their software left beta and started its steady rise to web domination.
Beyond the company's ubiquitous search, including AdSense/AdWords, Google Maps, Google Earth and the mighty Gmail. In 2011, Page stepped back into his original role of chief executive officer. He now leads Google with high aims and big thinking, and finds time to devote to his projects like Google X, the idea lab for the out-there experiments that keep Google pushing the limits.
Larry Page | Speaker | TED.com