TEDMED 2014
Debra Jarvis: Yes, I survived cancer. But that doesn't define me
黛布拉·贾维斯: 我战胜了癌症，但那并不代表什么
Filmed:
Readability: 3.3
1,110,917 views
当被诊断出患了癌症时黛布拉·贾维斯已经在一家医院做了将近30年的牧师了。作为一名患者她学到了不少。在这个诙谐、大胆的演讲中，她解释了“癌症幸存者”的身份标识是如何让人们感到静止的。她希望我们在给自己成长和进步的空间的同时，定义自己最困难的历经，而不是被它们定义。
Debra Jarvis - Chaplain + author
Debra Jarvis isn't your typical hospital chaplain. With wry wit, she aims to comfort patients -- and also challenge them. Full bio
Debra Jarvis isn't your typical hospital chaplain. With wry wit, she aims to comfort patients -- and also challenge them. Full bio
Double-click the English transcript below to play the video.
00:13
I just met you on a bus,
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我刚在公交车上见过你，
00:16
and we would really like
to get to know each other,
to get to know each other,
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并且我们真的很想了解对方，
00:19
but I've got to get off at the next stop,
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但是我得在下一站下车，
00:21
so you're going to tell me
three things about yourself
three things about yourself
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所以你打算告诉我三件
00:26
that just define you as a person,
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可以定义你这个人的事情，
00:30
three things about yourself
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三件会帮助我
00:31
that will help me understand who you are,
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理解你是谁的事情，
00:35
three things that just
get to your very essence.
get to your very essence.
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三件可以显现出你的本质的事情。
00:39
And what I'm wondering
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我很好奇的是，
00:42
is, of those three things,
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在这三件事中，
00:45
is any one of them
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是否有一件是
00:47
surviving some kind of trauma?
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从某种创伤中幸存下来。
00:52
Cancer survivor, rape survivor,
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癌症幸存者、强奸幸存者、
00:58
Holocaust survivor, incest survivor.
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大屠杀幸存者、乱伦幸存者。
01:03
Ever notice how we tend to identify ourselves
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有没有注意到我们是如何
01:07
by our wounds?
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通过受过的创伤来认同我们自己的？
01:09
And where I have seen this survivor identity
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我见过的受这种幸存者身份认同
01:14
have the most consequences
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影响最深的
01:16
is in the cancer community.
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是癌症患者群体。
01:19
And I've been around this
community for a long time,
community for a long time,
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我已经处在这个群体中很久了，
01:21
because I've been a hospice
and a hospital chaplain
and a hospital chaplain
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因为我已经在一家临终关怀所和医院
01:25
for almost 30 years.
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做了近30年的牧师。
01:28
And in 2005, I was working at a big cancer center
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2005年，当我得到
01:34
when I received the news that
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我母亲得了乳腺癌的消息时
01:36
my mother had breast cancer.
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我正在一家大的癌症中心工作。
01:39
And then five days later,
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然后5天之后，
01:42
I received the news that I had breast cancer.
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我得到消息我也得了乳腺癌。
01:47
My mother and I can be competitive —
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我母亲和我可以竞争——
01:50
(Laughter) —
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（笑声）——
01:51
but I was really not trying to
compete with her on this one.
compete with her on this one.
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但是我真的不想在这件事上跟她竞争。
01:56
And in fact, I thought, well,
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事实上，我当时想，
01:58
if you have to have cancer,
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如果你必须得癌症的话，
02:00
it's pretty convenient to be working
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那么在一个治疗癌症的地方上班
02:02
at a place that treats it.
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会给你提供很多便利。
02:03
But this is what I heard from
a lot of outraged people.
a lot of outraged people.
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但是我听到很多愤怒的人会说，
02:06
What?
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什么？
02:07
You're the chaplain.
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你是牧师，
02:09
You should be immune.
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你应该幸免的。
02:11
Like, maybe I should have just gotten off
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就像是说，也许我应该只受到
02:14
with a warning instead of an actual ticket,
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一点警告而不是真正的得病，
02:16
because I'm on the force.
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因为毕竟我是一个牧师。
02:20
So I did get my treatment at the
cancer center where I worked,
cancer center where I worked,
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我在我工作的癌症中心接受了治疗，
02:23
which was amazingly convenient,
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那真的是非常方便。
02:25
and I had chemotherapy
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我做了化疗
02:27
and a mastectomy, and a saline implant put in,
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以及乳房切除和生理盐水植入手术，
02:30
and so before I say another word,
let me just say right now,
let me just say right now,
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因此在我说下一句之前，让我告诉你们
02:32
this is the fake one. (Laughter)
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这就是那个假的乳房。（笑声）
02:37
I have found that I need to get that out of the way,
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我发现我需要不去在意这件事，
02:40
because I'll see somebody go
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因为我会看到别人指指点点地说
02:42
"Oh, I know it's this one."
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：“我知道哪个是假的。”
02:44
And then I'll move or I'll
gesture and they'll go,
gesture and they'll go,
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然后我会用手势告诉他们
02:47
"No, it's that one."
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“不是的，另外一个才是假的。”
02:49
So now you know.
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所以现在你们都知道了。
02:51
I learned a lot being a patient,
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在生病期间我学到了很多，
02:53
and one of the surprising things was
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其中最令人惊讶的一件事是
02:55
that only a small part of the cancer experience
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医疗只是癌症经历中
02:59
is about medicine.
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很小的一部分。
03:01
Most of it is about feelings and faith
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其它大多数的是关于感情和信仰、
03:06
and losing and finding your identity
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失去和寻找你的身份认同
03:08
and discovering strength
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以及发现那些你拥有却从来都不知道的
03:10
and flexibility you never even knew you had.
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力量和柔性。
03:14
It's about realizing that
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它是关于意识到
03:16
the most important things in life are
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生命中最重要的事情
03:19
not things at all, but relationships,
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不是其它的，而是人际关系，
03:22
and it's about laughing in the face of uncertainty
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它是关于笑着面对不确定性
03:26
and learning that the way to
get out of almost anything
get out of almost anything
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以及学到逃避任何事情的方法
03:30
is to say, "I have cancer."
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就是说：”我有癌症。“
03:34
So the other thing I learned was that
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所以我学到的另外一件事就是
03:36
I don't have to take on "cancer survivor"
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我不需要将“癌症幸存者”
03:40
as my identity,
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作为我的身份标识，
03:42
but, boy, are there powerful forces
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但是，男孩，有很强大的力量
03:46
pushing me to do just that.
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促使我那样做。
03:49
Now, don't, please, misunderstand me.
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请不要误解我。
03:53
Cancer organizations
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癌症组织、
03:55
and the drive for early screening
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对早期筛查的推动
03:57
and cancer awareness and cancer research
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以及对癌症的认识和研究
04:00
have normalized cancer,
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已经将癌症规范化了，
04:02
and this is a wonderful thing.
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这是一件很了不起的事。
04:03
We can now talk about cancer
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我们现在不再需要
04:05
without whispering.
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悄悄地谈论癌症。
04:07
We can talk about cancer and
we can support one another.
we can support one another.
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我们可以公开地谈论癌症并互相支持。
04:12
But sometimes, it feels
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但有时，它让人感觉到
04:15
like people go a little overboard
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有些人有点热心得过头了，
04:16
and they start telling us how we're going to feel.
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他们开始告诉我们接下来我们将有什么感觉。
04:21
So about a week after my surgery,
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大约在我做完手术一个星期后，
04:25
we had a houseguest.
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家里来了一位客人。
04:28
That was probably our first mistake.
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那可能是我们的第一个错误。
04:31
And keep in mind that
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请记住
04:32
at this point in my life
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那时我已经
04:34
I had been a chaplain for over 20 years,
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做了超过20年的牧师了，
04:37
and issues like dying and death
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像临终和死亡
04:40
and the meaning of life,
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以及生命的意义之类的事情，
04:41
these are all things I'd been
yakking about forever.
yakking about forever.
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是我一直都在唠叨的。
04:45
So at dinner that night,
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所以在那天的晚餐上，
04:47
our houseguest proceeds to
stretch his arms up over his head,
stretch his arms up over his head,
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我们的客人开始伸展他的双臂，
04:50
and say, "You know, Deb,
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并且说，“你知道吗，黛布，
04:53
now you're really going to learn what's important.
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你现在真的要去学习什么是重要的。
04:57
Yes, you are going to make some big changes
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是的，你要在你的生命中
04:59
in your life,
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做一些大的改变，
05:01
and now you're going to start
thinking about your death.
thinking about your death.
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你要开始思考死亡。
05:04
Yep, this cancer is your wakeup call."
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没错，这场癌症是对你的警告。“
05:10
Now, these are golden words
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这些都是
05:13
coming from someone who is speaking about
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某个人从他自己的经历出发
05:15
their own experience,
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所总结的金石良言，
05:17
but when someone is telling you
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但是当这个人是在告诉你
05:20
how you are going to feel,
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你接下来将有什么样的感觉时，
05:22
it's instant crap.
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这些都是即时垃圾。
05:24
The only reason I did not kill him
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那晚我没用我的赤手空拳
05:27
with my bare hands
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将他杀掉的唯一理由
05:29
was because I could not lift my right arm.
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就是我不能举起我的右手。
05:33
But I did say a really bad word to him,
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但是我真的对他说了一个很不好的字眼，
05:37
followed by a regular word, that —
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夹杂在正常的句子中，那个词——
05:40
(Laughter) —
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（笑声）——
05:41
made my husband say, "She's on narcotics."
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使得我丈夫赶紧打圆场：“她刚用了麻醉药。”
05:45
(Laughter)
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（笑声）
05:47
And then after my treatment, it just felt like
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然后治疗过后，感觉好像
05:49
everyone was telling me what my
experience was going to mean.
experience was going to mean.
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每一个人都在跟我说我的经历将对我意味着什么。
05:53
"Oh, this means you're going to be doing the walk."
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“哦，这意味着你要多散散步。“
05:55
"Oh, this means you're coming to the luncheon."
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“哦，这意味着你要去吃午餐了。“
05:57
"This means you're going to be wearing
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“哦，这意味着你要打
05:58
the pink ribbon and the pink t-shirt
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粉红色的丝带和穿粉红色的T恤
06:01
and the headband and the earrings
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以及粉红色的头巾、耳环、
06:03
and the bracelet and the panties."
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手镯和内裤。“
06:06
Panties. No, seriously, google it.
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内裤，不，严肃的说，谷歌一下它。
06:10
(Laughter)
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（笑声）
06:12
How is that raising awareness?
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这个怎么可能提高人们对癌症的意识？
06:14
Only my husband should be seeing my panties.
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只有我丈夫可以看到我的内裤。
06:16
(Laughter)
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（笑声）
06:17
He's pretty aware of cancer already.
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他已经对癌症有很清楚的认识了。
06:22
It was at that point where I felt like, oh my God,
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这就是那时我的感受，哦，天啦，
06:25
this is just taking over my life.
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我的生命就被这些东西接管了。
06:28
And that's when I told myself,
claim your experience.
claim your experience.
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那时我告诉自己，定义你的经历。
06:33
Don't let it claim you.
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不要让它定义你。
06:37
We all know that
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我们都知道
06:39
the way to cope with trauma, with loss,
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应付创伤、失败
06:43
with any life-changing experience,
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或者任何能改变人生的经历的方法
06:45
is to find meaning.
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就是找到意义。
06:48
But here's the thing:
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但是事实是这样的：
06:50
No one can tell us
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没有人能告诉我们
06:51
what our experience means.
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那些我们经历过的事情意味着什么。
06:54
We have to decide what it means.
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我们必须确定它的意义。
06:58
And it doesn't have to be some gigantic,
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并且它不一定非得是什么巨大的、
07:00
extroverted meaning.
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外向性的意义。
07:02
We don't all have to start a foundation
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我们也不必都去创建一个基金会
07:04
or an organization or write a book
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或者什么组织之类的，不必都去写一本书
07:06
or make a documentary.
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或拍一部纪录片什么的。
07:09
Meaning can be quiet
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意义可以是安静
07:12
and introverted.
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和含蓄的。
07:14
Maybe we make one small decision about our lives
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也许我们做的一个关于我们生活的一个小决定
07:20
that can bring about big change.
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就可以带来大的改变。
07:25
Many years ago, I had a patient,
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很多年前，我有一个病人，
07:27
just a wonderful young man
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一个非常不错的年青人，
07:29
who was loved by the staff,
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他深受我们员工的喜爱，
07:32
and so it was something of a shock to us to realize
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因此当得知他没有一个朋友时
07:35
that he had no friends.
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我很震惊。
07:39
He lived by himself,
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他一个人住，
07:41
he would come in for chemotherapy by himself,
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他独自过来化疗，
07:45
he would receive his treatment,
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接受完治疗
07:47
and then he'd walk home alone.
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又独自一个走回家。
07:51
And I even asked him. I said, "Hey,
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我甚至问过他，我说，“嘿，
07:52
how come you never bring a friend with you?"
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你怎么从来没有带朋友一起来过？“
07:55
And he said, "I don't really have any friends."
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他说，“我真的没有任何朋友。”
08:00
But he had tons of friends on the infusion floor.
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但是他在输液层却有很多的朋友。
08:02
We all loved him, and people were going
in and out of his room all the time.
in and out of his room all the time.
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我们都很喜欢他，他的房间一直人来人往。
08:07
So at his last chemo,
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在他最后一次化疗时，
08:10
we sang him the song
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我们为他唱歌
08:11
and we put the crown on his
head and we blew the bubbles,
head and we blew the bubbles,
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我们给他带上花环并给他吹泡泡，
08:14
and then I asked him, I said,
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然后我问他，我说，
08:16
"So what are you going to do now?"
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“你现在打算怎么做？”
08:20
And he answered,
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他回答道，
08:22
"Make friends."
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“交朋友。”
08:24
And he did.
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并且他那样做了。
08:26
He started volunteering
and he made friends there,
and he made friends there,
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他开始做义工并且在那里交了一些朋友，
08:30
and he began going to a church
and he made friends there,
and he made friends there,
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他开始去教堂并且在那里交了一些朋友，
08:32
and at Christmas he invited my husband
and me to a party in his apartment,
and me to a party in his apartment,
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圣诞节时他邀请我和我丈夫去他的公寓参加了一个聚会，
08:35
and the place was filled with his friends.
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房间里满满的都是他的朋友。
08:40
Claim your experience.
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定义你的经历。
08:43
Don't let it claim you.
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不要让它定义你。
08:44
He decided that the meaning of his experience
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他确定他的癌症经历的意义
08:49
was to know the joy of friendship,
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就是懂得了友谊的乐趣，
08:53
and then learn to make friends.
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然后学会了交朋友。
08:58
So what about you?
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那么你呢？
09:01
How are you going to find meaning
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你将如何在糟糕的经历中
09:04
in your crappy experience?
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找到意义？
09:06
It could be a recent one,
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可能是最近的一次经历，
09:08
or it could be one that you've been carrying around
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或者是已经伴随了你
09:10
for a really long time.
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很长时间的一段经历。
09:14
It's never too late to change what it means,
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对于改变它的意义来说永远不会嫌迟，
09:19
because meaning is dynamic.
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因为意义是动态的。
09:21
What it means today
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它今天所代表的意思
09:22
may not be what it means a year from now,
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可能跟1年后
09:24
or 10 years from now.
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或者10年后已经不一样了。
09:27
It's never too late to become someone other
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成为其他类型的人
09:30
than simply a survivor.
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而不仅仅是幸存者是永远也不嫌迟的。
09:33
Hear how static that word sounds?
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这个词听起来是多么的静止。
09:37
Survivor.
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幸存者。
09:39
No movement, no growth.
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没有运动，也没有成长。
09:43
Claim your experience.
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定义你的经历。
09:45
Don't let it claim you, because if you do,
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不要让它定义你，因为如果你被它定义了，
09:48
I believe you will become trapped,
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我相信你会陷入困境，
09:51
you will not grow, you will not evolve.
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你不会再成长，也不会再发展。
09:57
But of course, sometimes it's not outside pressures
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当然，有时候并不是外部的压力
10:00
that cause us to take on that identity of survivor.
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导致我们为自己贴上幸存者的标识。
10:04
Sometimes we just like the perks.
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而是因为有时我们喜欢这种特权享受。
10:08
Sometimes there's a payoff.
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有时候会因此得利。
10:12
But then we get stuck.
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但是之后我们会陷入困境。
10:16
Now, one of the first things I learned
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在作为一个牧师实习生时
10:17
as a chaplain intern was the three C's
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我首先学到的就是关于
10:22
of the chaplain's job:
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牧师工作的3C：
10:24
Comfort, clarify and, when necessary, confront
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安慰（Comfort）、解释（clarify）以及必要的时候对抗（ confront）
10:31
or challenge.
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或者说挑战（ challenge）。
10:33
Now, we all pretty much love the comforting
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我们都很喜欢安慰
10:35
and the clarifying.
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和解释。
10:37
The confronting, not so much.
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而对于对抗，可能态度就不一样了。
10:42
One of the other things that I loved
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作为一名牧师
10:44
about being a chaplain was
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另外一件我喜欢的事情就是
10:46
seeing patients a year, or even several years
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去见那些结束治疗一年后
10:51
after their treatment, because
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甚至几年后的病人，因为
10:53
it was just really cool to see
how they had changed
how they had changed
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亲眼看着他们如何改变、
10:55
and how their lives had evolved
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他们的生活如何进步
10:57
and what had happened to them.
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以及他们身体发生了什么是一件很酷的事情。
10:59
So I was thrilled one day
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所以当有一天
11:02
to get a page down into the lobby of the clinic
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我在诊所的大堂
11:04
from a patient who I had seen the year before,
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看到一个一年前见过的病人时非常兴奋，
11:08
and she was there with her two adult daughters,
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她跟她的两个已成年的女儿在那儿，
11:10
who I also knew, for her one year follow-up exam.
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我知道她是结束治疗一年后来做复查的。
11:15
So I got down to the lobby, and they were ecstatic
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我走进了大堂，她们当时正欣喜若狂，
11:18
because she had just gotten
all of her test results back
all of her test results back
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因为她刚拿到了检查结果，
11:20
and she was NED: No Evidence of Disease.
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结果是无疾病征兆（NED）。
11:27
Which I used to think meant Not Entirely Dead.
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我以前以为NED的意思是没有完全死去。
11:31
So they were ecstatic, we sat down to visit,
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所以她们很开心，我们坐下来闲谈，
11:37
and it was so weird, because
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然而事情有点奇怪，因为
11:40
within two minutes, she
started retelling me the story
started retelling me the story
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谈不到两分钟，她开始对我复述
11:44
of her diagnosis and her
surgery and her chemo,
surgery and her chemo,
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关于她的诊断、手术和化疗的故事，
11:48
even though, as her chaplain,
I saw her every week,
I saw her every week,
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尽管做为她的牧师，我之前每个星期都见她，
11:52
and so I knew this story.
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所以我是知道那些故事的。
11:54
And she was using words like suffering,
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而且她使用了像“煎熬“、
11:57
agony, struggle.
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“痛苦”、“挣扎”这样的字眼。
12:01
And she ended her story with,
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最后她用
12:04
"I felt crucified."
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“我感到自己被钉在了十字架上”结束了她的故事。
12:09
And at that point, her two
daughters got up and said,
daughters got up and said,
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就在那时，她的两个女儿起身说道，
12:12
"We're going to go get coffee."
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“我们去喝咖啡了。”
12:15
And they left.
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然后她们离开了。
12:19
Tell me three things about
yourself before the next stop.
yourself before the next stop.
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在下一站之前告诉我三件关于你的事。
12:21
People were leaving the bus before she even got
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人们可能会在她
12:24
to number two or number three.
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说到第二件或第三件事之前就下车。
12:30
So I handed her a tissue,
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我给她递了一张纸巾，
12:33
and I gave her a hug,
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并且拥抱了她，
12:36
and then, because I really cared for this woman,
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然后，因为我真的很关心这个女人，
12:40
I said,
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所以我对她说，
12:42
"Get down off your cross."
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“从十字架上下来吧。“
12:44
And she said, "What?"
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4266
然后她说，“什么？”
12:49
And I repeated, "Get down off your cross."
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5414
我重复道，“从十字架上下来吧。”
12:54
And to her credit, she could
talk about her reasons
talk about her reasons
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为了给自己增光，她可以说出她
12:59
for embracing and then clinging to this identity.
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接受然后坚持这个身份标识的理由。
13:04
It got her a lot of attention.
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2022
它给她带来了很多关注。
13:06
People were taking care of her for a change.
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人们本来希望通过关心使她改变。
13:09
But now, it was having the opposite effect.
257
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3695
但是现在，它正取得相反的效果。
13:13
It was pushing people away.
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2483
它反而在促使人们离开。
13:15
People kept leaving to get coffee.
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人们离开她去喝咖啡。
13:19
She felt crucified by her experience,
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她通过自己的经历使自己感觉到被钉在十字架上，
13:23
but she didn't want to let that crucified self die.
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但是她又不想让这个被钉在十字架上的自己死掉。
13:29
Now, perhaps you are thinking
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也许你们在想
13:32
I was a little harsh with her,
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我对她有一点苛刻，
13:35
so I must tell you that
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所以我必须告诉你
13:37
I was speaking out of my own experience.
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我只是在说出我自己的经历。
13:41
Many, many years before,
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很多很多年前，
13:43
I had been fired from a job that I loved,
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我从一个自己喜欢的职位上被炒了，
13:47
and I would not stop talking about my innocence
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然后我不停地述说我的清白、
13:50
and the injustice and the betrayal and the deceipt,
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受到的不公正的待遇、公司的背叛和卑鄙，
13:54
until finally, just like this woman,
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直到最后，就像这个女人一样，
13:55
people were walking away from me,
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2041
人们离我而去，
13:57
until I finally realized
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直到我最终意识到
14:00
I wasn't just processing my feelings,
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我不仅仅是在炮制我自己的感受，
14:04
I was feeding them.
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而且也在将这些感受输送给他们。
14:07
I didn't want to let that crucified self die.
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我不想让被钉在十字架上的自己死去。
14:11
But we all know that with any resurrection story,
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但是我们都知道在任何的重生故事中，
14:16
you have to die first.
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你都必须先死去。
14:19
The Christian story,
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1823
基督教的故事中，
14:21
Jesus was dead a whole day in the tomb
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耶稣在复活之前
14:24
before he was resurrected.
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被埋在坟墓里整整一天。
14:27
And I believe that for us,
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我认为对于我们来说，
14:28
being in the tomb
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在坟墓里
14:30
means doing our own deep inner work
283
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3986
的意思就是围绕着自己的创伤
14:34
around our wounds
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2704
去做内心深处的工作，
14:37
and allowing ourselves to be healed.
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并且允许自己的创伤愈合。
14:42
We have to let that crucified self die
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我们得让被钉在十字架上的自我死去，
14:45
so that a new self, a truer self,
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这样才能让一个全新的、更真实的自我
14:48
is born.
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诞生。
14:51
We have to let that old story go
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我们要让旧的故事成为过去，
14:54
so that a new story, a truer story,
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这样才能讲述全新的、
14:58
can be told.
291
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更真实的故事。
15:01
Claim your experience. Don't let it claim you.
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5543
定义你的经历，不要让它定义你。
15:06
What if there were no survivors,
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如果没有幸存者，
15:09
meaning, what if people decided
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没有所谓的意义会怎么样，如果人们
15:12
to just claim their trauma as an experience
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仅仅把他们的创伤当作一种经历
15:15
instead of taking it on as an identity?
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而不是作为一个身份标识又会怎么样？
15:19
Maybe it would be the end of being
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2002
也许这将使我们不再
15:21
trapped in our wounds
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受困于我们的创伤
15:23
and the beginning of amazing
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3554
并且开始奇妙的
15:27
self-exploration and discovery and growth.
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自我探索、发现和成长。
15:31
Maybe it would be the start of defining ourselves
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也许它将使我们开始通过
15:35
by who we have become
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认识到我们曾经是什么样的人
15:38
and who we are becoming.
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以及我们将会成为什么样的人来定义自己。
15:42
So perhaps survivor was not
304
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所以也许成为幸存者不是
15:48
one of the three things that you would tell me.
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你将要告诉我的三件事之一。
15:53
No matter.
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没关系。
15:54
I just want you all to know that
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我只是想让你们都知道
15:57
I am really glad that we are on this bus together,
308
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4313
很高兴我们能在同一辆公交车上，
16:01
and this is my stop.
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并且我到站了。
16:05
(Applause)
310
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3705
（掌声）
ABOUT THE SPEAKER
Debra Jarvis - Chaplain + authorDebra Jarvis isn't your typical hospital chaplain. With wry wit, she aims to comfort patients -- and also challenge them.
Why you should listen
For writer, ordained minister and hospital chaplain Debra Jarvis, humor is a powerful balm. She is not afraid to be funny even when doing very serious work with the sick and dying as a hospice chaplain, a pastoral consultant for volunteer groups caring for people with AIDS and MS, and a staff chaplain at the Seattle Cancer Care Alliance. Debra is the author of It’s Not About the Hair: And Other Certainties of Life & Cancer and numerous other books. Currently on sabbatical in Geneva, Debra’s last job was as writer-in-residence for the University Congregational United Church of Christ in Seattle. In her free time, Debra accompanies her Cairn terrier Max in his therapy dog work.
Debra Jarvis | Speaker | TED.com