TEDIndia 2009
His Holiness the Karmapa: The technology of the heart
大宝法王卡玛巴:心灵科技
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大宝法王卡玛巴讨论了关于他被发现并认定是藏传佛教上师转世的过程。在他的演说里，他鼓励我们在现实的科技和设计努力之外，更要努力探索心灵科技和设计。泰勒.杜即席翻译。
His Holiness the Karmapa - Spiritual leader
Ogyen Trinley Dorje is the 17th Gyalwang Karmapa, a revered figure in Tibetan Buddhism devoted to preserving and propagating Buddhist teachings. Full bio
Ogyen Trinley Dorje is the 17th Gyalwang Karmapa, a revered figure in Tibetan Buddhism devoted to preserving and propagating Buddhist teachings. Full bio
Double-click the English transcript below to play the video.
00:30
Tyler Dewar: The way I feel right now
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我现在的感受是
00:32
is that all of the other speakers
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所有其他的演讲者
00:34
have said exactly what I wanted to say.
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已经说了我想说的。
00:36
(Laughter)
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（笑声）
00:38
And it seems that the only thing left for me to say
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看来我唯一要做的事就是
00:41
is to thank you all for your kindness.
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感谢所有人的善意。
00:58
TD: But maybe in the spirit
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为了感谢
01:00
of appreciating the kindness of you all,
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各位的仁慈及善意。
01:02
I could share with you
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我想和你们分享
01:04
a little story about myself.
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关于我的一个小故事。
01:50
TD: From the time I was very young, onward,
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从很小的时候开始，
01:53
I was given
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我就被赋予了
01:55
a lot of different responsibilities,
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很多不同的责任，
01:57
and it always seemed to me, when I was young,
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年轻时，我总这样认为，
02:00
that everything was laid out before me.
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所有的事别人都已经替我决定好了。
02:02
All of the plans for me were already made.
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我所有的计划都有人安排好了。
02:05
I was given the clothes that I needed to wear
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我需要穿的衣服都有人准备好了，
02:07
and told where I needed to be,
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我的行程也有人排定了，
02:09
given these very precious
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出席这些场合所要穿的
02:11
and holy looking robes to wear,
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珍贵庄严的法袍也有人准备好了，
02:14
with the understanding
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我很明白
02:16
that it was something sacred or important.
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这是十分神圣和重要的事。
03:07
TD: But before that kind of formal lifestyle happened for me,
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在这种正式生活方式之前，
03:11
I was living in eastern Tibet with my family.
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我和家人住在西藏东部。
03:14
And when I was seven years old,
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当时我只有7岁，
03:17
all of a sudden,
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突然，
03:19
a search party arrived at my home.
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一个搜寻队伍来到我家。
03:21
They were looking the next Karmapa,
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他们在找下一世的大宝法王噶玛巴，
03:24
and I noticed they were talking to my mom and dad,
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我注意到他们在和我的父母谈话，
03:27
and the news came to me that they were telling me
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之后他们告诉我这个消息，
03:30
that I was the Karmapa.
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说我就是大宝法王卡玛巴。
03:32
And these days, people ask me a lot,
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现在，人们常常问到，
03:34
how did that feel.
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问我当时感觉如何。
03:36
How did that feel when they came and whisked you away,
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当他们突然把你带离家人，
03:38
and your lifestyle completely changed?
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完全改变了你的生活，你觉得怎么样？
03:40
And what I mostly say is that,
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我多半这样回答：
03:42
at that time,
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那时，
03:44
it was a pretty interesting idea to me.
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我觉得挺有趣的。
03:47
I thought that things would be pretty fun
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我以为会很有趣，
03:49
and there would be more things to play with.
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会有很多可以玩的东西。
03:52
(Laughter)
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（笑声）
04:56
TD: But it didn't turn out to be so fun and entertaining,
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但是事情却没有像我预期的，
04:59
as I thought it would have been.
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那么有趣好玩。
05:01
I was placed
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我被安置在
05:03
in a pretty strictly controlled environment.
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一个高度控制的环境下。
05:06
And immediately,
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而且立刻，
05:08
a lot of different responsibilities,
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很多不同的责任，
05:10
in terms of my education and so forth, were heaped upon me.
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像我该受的教育等等，排山倒海而来。
05:13
I was separated, largely, from my family,
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我和我的家人分开了，
05:15
including my mother and father.
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包括我的父母。
05:17
I didn't have have many personal friends
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我没有很多朋友
05:19
to spend time with,
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没人陪伴我，
05:21
but I was expected to perform
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人们期望我执行
05:23
these prescribed duties.
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这些传承下来的任务。
05:25
So it turned out that my fantasy
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所以，我满心幻想的
05:28
about an entertaining life of being the Karmapa
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作为大宝法王噶玛巴有趣的生活，
05:30
wasn't going to come true.
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是不会成真的了。
05:32
It more felt to be the case to me
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这感觉更像是
05:34
that I was being treated like a statue,
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我被当成一尊雕像一样，
05:37
and I was to sit in one place
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我必须坐在那里
05:40
like a statue would.
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就像雕像那样坐在那儿。
06:31
TD: Nevertheless, I felt that,
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然而，我感觉，
06:33
even though I've been separated from my loved ones --
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即使我同我爱的人们分开了--
06:36
and, of course, now I'm even further away.
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当然，现在离他们更远了，
06:39
When I was 14, I escaped from Tibet
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当我14岁的时候， 我逃离了西藏
06:41
and became even further removed
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同时又更加远离了
06:43
from my mother and father,
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我的父母，
06:45
my relatives, my friends
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我的亲戚，我的朋友
06:47
and my homeland.
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和我的家乡。
06:49
But nevertheless,
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但是尽管如此，
06:51
there's no real sense of separation from me in my heart,
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我的心里对这些人所感受到的爱，
06:54
in terms of the love that I feel
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并没有因为距离
06:57
for these people.
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而有所减少。
06:59
I feel, still, a very strong connection of love
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我觉得和这些人
07:02
for all of these people
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以及我的家乡，我仍然感到
07:04
and for the land.
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强烈的爱的联系。
07:32
TD: And I still do
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我仍然和
07:34
get to keep in touch with my mother and father,
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我的父母保持联系，
07:36
albeit infrequently.
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虽然不算频繁。
07:38
I talk to my mother
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我同我母亲
07:40
once in a blue moon on the telephone.
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久久才通一次电话聊天。
07:42
And my experience is that,
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我的经验告诉我，
07:44
when I'm talking to her,
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当我和她说话的时候，
07:46
with every second that passes
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时间一分一秒过去
07:48
during our conversation,
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但是在我们对话的同时，
07:50
the feeling of love that binds us
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我们之间的爱
07:53
is bringing us closer and closer together.
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却把我们连结的更紧密。
09:08
TD: So those were just a few remarks
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这就是一些关于我的
09:10
about my personal background.
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个人背景的简述。
09:12
And in terms of other things that I wanted to share with you,
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至于其他我想和你们分享的事，
09:15
in terms of ideas,
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一些看法，
09:17
I think it's wonderful to have a situation like this,
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我想这是很好的时机，
09:20
where so many people from different backgrounds and places
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这里有很多来自不同地方和不同背景的人
09:23
can come together,
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齐聚一堂，
09:25
exchange their ideas
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交流想法
09:27
and form relationships of friendship with each other.
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同时互相建立友谊。
09:30
And I think that's symbolic
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我认为这象征着
09:32
of what we're seeing in the world in general,
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我们在这世界里所看到的，
09:34
that the world is becoming smaller and smaller,
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世界变得越来越小，
09:36
and that all of the peoples in the world
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而这个世界的所有人
09:39
are enjoying more opportunities for connection.
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正在享受更多的交流机会。
09:43
That's wonderful,
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这真是十分美好的事，
09:45
but we should also remember
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但是我们也要记住
09:47
that we should have a similar process happening on the inside.
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我们内心里应该有相同过程。
09:50
Along with outward development
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随着外在的发展
09:52
and increase of opportunity,
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和增加的机会，
09:54
there should be inward development
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那也应该有内在的发展
09:57
and deepening of our heart connections
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加深我们内心的交流
10:00
as well as our outward connections.
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就如同外在的交流一样。
10:04
So we spoke and we heard some
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这一周我们谈到和听到
10:06
about design this week.
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一些有关设计的事。
10:08
I think that it's important for us to remember
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我认为这很重要，我们应该要记得
10:10
that we need
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我们需要
10:12
to keep pushing forward
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继续向前推进
10:14
on the endeavor
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持续努力的
10:16
of the design of the heart.
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追求心灵的设计。
10:18
We heard a lot about technology this week,
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我们这周也听到了很多有关科技的演说，
10:20
and it's important for us to remember
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重要的是我们要记住
10:22
to invest a lot of our energy
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把更多的能量投入到
10:25
in improving the technology of the heart.
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提升心灵的技巧发展上。
10:47
TD: So, even though I'm somewhat happy
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对于世界上发生的伟大变革，
10:49
about the wonderful developments that are happening in the world,
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某个程度而言我还算高兴，
10:52
still, I feel a sense of impediment,
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但是，我感到有一些不足，
10:55
when it comes
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就是谈到
10:57
to the ability that we have
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我们所拥有的
10:59
to connect with each other on a heart-to-heart, or a mind-to-mind, level.
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心和心，精神层面上的沟通的能力。
11:02
I feel that there are some things
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我感到有些东西
11:05
that are getting in the way.
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变成了障碍。
11:43
TC: My relationship
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我各人对这个
11:45
to this concept of heart-to-heart connection, or mind-to-mind connection,
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心对心，精神上沟通的概念，
11:48
is an interesting one,
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有一些有趣的体验，
11:50
because, as a spiritual leader, I'm always attempting
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因为，作为一个精神领袖，我常试着
11:52
to open my heart to others
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对人敞开心门
11:54
and offer myself up
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奉献自我
11:56
for heart-to-heart and mind-to-mind connections
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真心诚意对待他人
11:58
in a genuine way with other people,
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以建立心灵的连系，
12:00
but at the same time,
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但是同时，
12:02
I've always been advised
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经常有人建议我
12:04
that I need to emphasize intelligence
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说我需要强调理智
12:06
over the heart-to-heart connections,
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胜过于心灵的关联，
12:08
because, being someone in a position like mine,
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因为，身居像我这样位置的人，
12:12
if I don't rely primarily on intelligence,
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如果不首要依靠理智，
12:15
then something dangerous may happen to me.
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危险的事便有可能会发生。
12:19
So it's an interesting paradox at play there.
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所以这是一件左右两难的事·。
12:25
But I had a really striking experience once,
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但是我有一次非常震撼的经验，
12:28
when a group from Afghanistan
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一队阿富汗人
12:30
came to visit me,
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来拜访我，
12:32
and we had a really interesting conversation.
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我们有一场非常有趣的对谈。
14:10
TD: So we ended up talking about the Bamiyan Buddhas,
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我们谈论到巴米扬大佛，
14:13
which, as you know,
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你们知道，
14:15
were destroyed some years ago in Afghanistan.
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很多年前阿富汗巴米扬大佛被破坏了。
14:19
But the basis of our conversation
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但是我们对话的基础是
14:21
was the different approach to spirituality
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回教和佛教传统中
14:23
on the part of the Muslim
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对灵性
14:25
and Buddhist traditions.
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不同的看法。
14:27
Of course, in Muslim,
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当然，在回教，
14:29
because of the teachings around the concept of idolatry,
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禁止偶像崇拜的概念，
14:32
you don't find as many
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所以回教中找不到很多
14:34
physical representations of divinity
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在佛教传统中
14:36
or of spiritual liberation
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可以找到的佛像
14:38
as you do in the Buddhist tradition,
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或心灵解脱的象征物，
14:40
where, of course, there are many statues of the Buddha
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当然，在佛教传统里，佛像很多
14:43
that are highly revered.
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而且是倍受尊重的。
14:48
So, we were talking about the differences
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所以，我们讨论这两个传统之间的
14:50
between the traditions
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不同之处
14:52
and what many people perceived
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在许多人看来，
14:54
as the tragedy of the destruction of the Bamiyan Buddhas,
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巴米扬大佛被破坏是一件悲剧，
14:57
but I offered the suggestion
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但是我提出一个建议
14:59
that perhaps we could look at this in a positive way.
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也许可以从正面的角度看待这件事。
15:03
What we saw in the destruction of the Bamiyan Buddhas
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我们看到的巴米扬大佛的破坏
15:10
was the depletion of matter,
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是物质的破坏，
15:13
some solid substance
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坚固物质的
15:15
falling down and disintegrating.
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崩裂和瓦解。
15:17
Maybe we could look at that to be more similar
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或许可以把它看成想类似的事件：
15:19
to the falling of the Berlin Wall,
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柏林围墙的瓦解，
15:21
where a divide
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一度隔离两个
15:23
that had kept two types of people apart
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社会的人们的高墙倒塌了，
15:26
had collapsed and opened up a door
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同时开通了一扇门
15:28
for further communication.
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让进一步的沟通开始。
15:30
So I think that, in this way,
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所以我认为，从这个角度，
15:32
it's always possible for us
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我们总是可以
15:34
to derive something positive
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学到正面的事
15:37
that can help us understand one another better.
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可以帮助我们更理解对方。
16:20
TD: So, with regard to the development
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所以，对于我们在
16:22
that we've been talking about
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这个研讨会里讨论了
16:24
here at this conference,
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很多的进步发展，
16:26
I really feel
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我真的觉得
16:28
that the development that we make
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我们创造的进步
16:31
shouldn't create a further burden
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不应该成为人类未来
16:33
for us as human beings,
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更沉重的负担，
16:35
but should be used
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而该用于
16:37
to improve
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改进
16:40
our fundamental lifestyle
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我们在这个世界上
16:42
of how we live in the world.
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生活的基本形态。
18:16
TD: Of course, I rejoice
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当然，印度在这块
18:18
in the development and the growth and the rise
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神圣土地上发展、成长、崛起
18:21
of the noble land of India, the great country of India,
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我为印度这个伟大国家感到很高兴，
18:24
but at the same time, I think,
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但同时，我想，
18:26
as some of us have acknowledged,
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正如一些人所认知到的，
18:29
we need to be aware
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我们需要了解，
18:31
that some aspects of this rise
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这个成长中所付出的代价
18:34
are coming at the cost
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是需要牺牲
18:37
of the very ground
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我们赖以安生立命
18:39
on which we stand.
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的这块土地。
18:41
So, as we are climbing the tree,
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正如我们在爬树，
18:44
some of the things that we're doing
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要爬到树上的话
18:46
in order to climb the tree
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我们正在做的事
18:48
are actually undermining
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事实上会对树根
18:50
the tree's very root.
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造成伤害。
18:52
And so,
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所以，我想
18:54
what I think it comes down to
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追根究底
18:56
is a question of, not only having information of what's going on,
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不只是要拥有最新的信息，
19:00
but paying attention to that
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还要真的去了解它，
19:03
and letting that shift our motivation
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同时转变我们的内在动机
19:06
to become more sincere
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让它变得更诚挚，
19:09
and genuinely positive.
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变得更正向。
19:13
We have hear, this week,
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这一周里我们听到
19:15
about the horrible sufferings, for example,
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关于可怕的痛苦，例如，
19:19
that so many women of the world
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很多世界上的女性
19:22
are enduring day-to-day.
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正每天经历的折磨。
19:24
We have that information,
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我们知道了这个信息，
19:26
but what often happens to us
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但是我们常常
19:28
is that we don't really choose to pay attention to it.
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选择不去关注它。
19:31
We don't really choose to allow that
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我们之所以选择不去注意，
19:33
to cause there to be a shift in our hearts.
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是因为不想心情受影响。
19:36
So I think the way forward for the world --
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所以我认为世界进步的方式--
19:38
one that will bring the path of outer development
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不仅是要外在发展和
19:42
in harmony
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真实快乐的根源
19:47
with the real root of happiness --
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达到协调--
19:50
is that we allow
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还要让
19:52
the information that we have
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我们所拥有的信息
19:54
to really make a change in our heart.
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真正改变我们的内心。
20:45
TD: So I think that sincere motivation
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我认为真挚的动机
20:47
is very important for our future well-being,
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对我们的美好未来，
20:50
or deep sense of well-being as humans,
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或人类深远的福址很重要，
20:53
and I think that means sinking in
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真挚的动机是全心投入
20:56
to whatever it is you're doing now.
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你正在做的事情之中。
20:58
Whatever work you're trying to do now to benefit the world,
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不论你现在正在做什么利益世界的事，
21:00
sink into that,
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全心沉浸其中，
21:02
get a full taste of that.
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好好品味它。
21:40
TD: So, since we've been here this week,
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我们这周已经在这儿，
21:42
we've taken millions of breaths, collectively,
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我们已经一起呼吸了百万次，
21:47
and perhaps we haven't witnessed
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或许我们还没有看到
21:49
any course changes
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任何改变
21:51
happening in our lives,
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发生在我们的生命里，
21:53
but we often miss the very subtle changes.
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但是我们经常忽略最细微的变化。
21:56
And I think
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而且我想
21:59
that sometimes we develop
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有时我们描绘出
22:01
grand concepts
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我们认为的
22:03
of what happiness
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关于幸福的
22:05
might look like for us,
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美好愿景，
22:07
but that, if we pay attention,
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但是，如果注意体会，
22:09
we can see that there are little symbols of happiness
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我们会发现，在每一个呼吸之间，
22:12
in every breath that we take.
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也都有小小的幸福。
23:21
TD: So, every one of you who has come here
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每一个来到这里的人
23:24
is so talented,
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都很有才华，
23:26
and you have so much to offer to the world,
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你们可以贡献给这个世界很多很多，
23:30
I think it would be a good note to conclude on then
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在结束演说以前，
23:34
to just take a moment
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我想花一些时间来
23:37
to appreciate how fortunate we are
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感激这个因缘，
23:39
to have come together in this way and exchanged ideas
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很幸运我们能齐聚一堂交换意见，
23:42
and really form a strong aspiration
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同时在心里创造
23:44
and energy within ourselves
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强大的灵感和能量，
23:46
that we will take the good
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从而将研讨会中
23:48
that has come from this conference,
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产生的好的结果、
23:50
the momentum, the positivity,
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动力、正面想法，
23:53
and we will spread that and plant it
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散播出去；在世界的所有角落，
23:55
in all of the corners of the world.
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种下善因。
24:18
His Holiness the Karmapa: Tomorrow is my Talk.
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大宝法王噶玛巴：我的演讲就在明天。
24:32
TD: Lakshmi has worked incredibly hard,
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拉克西米非常努力的工作，
24:35
even in inviting me,
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邀请我来，
24:37
let alone everything else that she has done
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她完成了很多的准备，
24:39
to make this happen,
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让这次演讲成为现实，
24:41
and I was somewhat resistant at times,
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有时候我心里有些抗拒，
24:44
and I was also very nervous throughout this week.
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而且这一周我也一直很紧张。
24:47
I was feeling under the weather and dizzy and so forth,
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我感到身体不适，头晕等等，
24:50
and people would ask me, why.
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人们问我怎么了。
24:52
I would tell them, "It's because I have to talk tomorrow."
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我告诉他们呢，"这是因为我明天要演讲。”
24:57
And so Lakshmi had to put up with me through all of that,
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拉克西米一直很包容容忍我，
25:00
but I very much appreciate
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我很感激，
25:02
the opportunity she's given me
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她给我这个机会
25:04
to be here.
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可以来到这里。
25:06
And to you, everyone, thank you very much.
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非常感谢各位，谢谢。
25:09
(Applause)
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（掌声）
25:12
HH: Thank you very much.
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大宝法王噶玛巴：非常感谢大家。
25:14
(Applause)
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（掌声）
ABOUT THE SPEAKER
His Holiness the Karmapa - Spiritual leaderOgyen Trinley Dorje is the 17th Gyalwang Karmapa, a revered figure in Tibetan Buddhism devoted to preserving and propagating Buddhist teachings.
Why you should listen
The name "Karmapa" means "the one who carries out Buddha-activity," and for seventeen lifetimes, a karmapa has embodied the teachings of Buddha in tibet. The 17th Gyalwang Karmapa, Ogyen Trinley Dorje, was born a nomad in Tibet in 1985 and recognized by the Dalai Lama in 1992 as the 17th Karmapa. The young boy was brought to the Tsurphu monastery to live and study for his life as a spiritual teacher and activist.
At age 14, he made a daring flight from Tibet, and now works from a temporary camp in Dharamsala, near his friend the Dalai Lama. (After the Dalai Lama, he's seen as Tibetan Buddhism's second-highest-ranking spiritual leader, though the two men lead different schools within the faith.) In 2008, he made a long visit to the United States, where he spoke and taught at Buddhist centers around the country. And in 2009 he toured Europe, speaking about faith -- but also about protecting the environment.
His Holiness the Karmapa | Speaker | TED.com