TED2007
Jonathan Drori: What we think we know
喬納森‧卓瑞談「我們以為自己知道的事」
Filmed:
Readability: 3.3
1,142,222 views
喬納森‧卓瑞從四個基本問題談起（你可能會很驚訝自己竟答不出來），他著眼於我們知識中的漏洞，特別在科學方面，我們以為自己了解，或許並不然。
Jonathan Drori - Educator
Jonathan Drori commissioned the BBC's very first websites, one highlight in a long career devoted to online culture and educational media -- and understanding how we learn. Full bio
Jonathan Drori commissioned the BBC's very first websites, one highlight in a long career devoted to online culture and educational media -- and understanding how we learn. Full bio
Double-click the English transcript below to play the video.
00:18
I'm going to try and explain why it is that perhaps
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我會試著解釋為何我說
00:22
we don't understand as much as we think we do.
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也許我們知道的沒有自以為的多
00:24
I'd like to begin with four questions.
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我想從四個問題開始
00:27
This is not some sort of cultural thing for the time of year.
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不是那種今年流行的文化問題
00:30
That's an in-joke, by the way.
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對了，剛剛那句是個圈內笑話
00:32
But these four questions, actually,
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不過這四個問題，事實上
00:35
are ones that people who even know quite a lot about science find quite hard.
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即使是很懂科學的人也覺得難
00:38
And they're questions that I've asked of science television producers,
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這些問題我拿去問科學節目製片
00:43
of audiences of science educators --
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問觀眾、問科學背景的學者
00:46
so that's science teachers -- and also of seven-year-olds,
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也問教科學的老師還有七歲孩童
00:50
and I find that the seven-year-olds do marginally better
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我發現七歲孩童答得比其他人好
00:53
than the other audiences, which is somewhat surprising.
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這點有些令人驚訝
00:55
So the first question, and you might want to write this down,
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問題一，你可能想把問題抄下來
00:58
either on a bit of paper, physically, or a virtual piece of paper
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抄在紙上，或想像中的紙上
01:02
in your head. And, for viewers at home, you can try this as well.
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坐在電腦前的你也可以試著作答
01:05
A little seed weighs next to nothing and a tree weighs a lot, right?
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種籽很輕，而大樹很有重量對吧？
01:10
I think we agree on that. Where does the tree get the stuff that makes up this chair,
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都同意吧，大樹用來製成椅子的木材是哪來的？
01:16
right? Where does all this stuff come from?
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對吧？木材是怎麼來的？
01:19
(Knocks)
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（敲椅聲）
01:20
And your next question is, can you light a little torch-bulb
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問題二，你能否點亮1個小燈泡
01:26
with a battery, a bulb and one piece of wire?
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只用1個電池、1個燈泡、和1條電線？
01:31
And would you be able to, kind of, draw a -- you don't have to draw
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那你能畫出上述問題的圖解嗎？不用真的畫
01:33
the diagram, but would you be able to draw the diagram,
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畫出這題的圖解就好
01:35
if you had to do it? Or would you just say,
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要是你必須畫的話，或者你會表示
01:37
that's actually not possible?
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這個問題沒有解答
01:40
The third question is, why is it hotter in summer than in winter?
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問題三，為何夏天比冬天熱？
01:44
I think we can probably agree that it is hotter in summer than in winter,
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大家應該都同意夏天比冬天還熱
01:49
but why? And finally, would you be able to --
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但為何如此？問題四，你能不能
01:55
and you can sort of scribble it, if you like --
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想畫的人可以畫在紙上
01:57
scribble a plan diagram of the solar system,
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畫出太陽系的平面圖
02:00
showing the shape of the planets' orbits?
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呈現出行星軌道運行的形狀
02:04
Would you be able to do that?
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你可以畫得出來嗎？
02:05
And if you can, just scribble a pattern.
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你晝得出來的話，就把形狀畫出來
02:10
OK. Now, children get their ideas not from teachers,
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好，孩童對事物的概念不是老師教的
02:16
as teachers often think, but actually from common sense,
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老師時常這麼以為，但實際上概念來自於常理
02:19
from experience of the world around them,
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來自於孩童對周遭世界的體驗
02:21
from all the things that go on between them and their peers,
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來自於他們跟同伴彼此交流
02:25
and their carers, and their parents, and all of that. Experience.
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還有跟保姆、父母親、所有人交流的經驗
02:30
And one of the great experts in this field, of course, was, bless him,
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有個專家很清楚這事實，對了，願他安息
02:35
Cardinal Wolsey. Be very careful what you get into people's heads
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他就是渥西主教，他說要小心放進腦袋的東西
02:39
because it's virtually impossible to shift it afterwards, right?
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因為那些東西幾乎不會再改變，對吧？
02:42
(Laughter)
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（笑聲）
02:45
I'm not quite sure how he died, actually.
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我不太清楚他的死因，真的
02:47
Was he beheaded in the end, or hung?
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他最後上了斷頭台？還是被吊死？
02:49
(Laughter)
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（笑聲）
02:50
Now, those questions, which, of course, you've got right,
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現在我們回歸那四個問題，大家都知道問題了
02:52
and you haven't been conferring, and so on.
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彼此之間也沒有討論答案
02:54
And I -- you know, normally, I would pick people out and humiliate,
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我習慣點人起來回答讓他丟臉
02:57
but maybe not in this instance.
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不過這次就不點人好了
02:59
A little seed weighs a lot and, basically, all this stuff,
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種籽可以很重，基本上這些木材的原料
03:03
99 percent of this stuff, came out of the air.
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有99％來自於空氣
03:06
Now, I guarantee that about 85 percent of you, or maybe it's fewer at TED,
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我相信有85％的人，或許在你們TED會比較少
03:10
will have said it comes out of the ground. And some people,
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會說木材來自於大地，而有些人
03:13
probably two of you, will come up and argue with me afterwards,
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可能晚點有一兩個人會來找我爭論
03:16
and say that actually, it comes out of the ground.
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說木材其實是來自於大地
03:18
Now, if that was true, we'd have trucks going round the country,
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若是如此，各地就會有卡車跑來跑去
03:20
filling people's gardens in with soil, it'd be a fantastic business.
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在人們的花園裡倒土，這真是門很棒的生意
03:23
But, actually, we don't do that.
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不過實際上我們不會那麼做
03:25
The mass of this comes out of the air.
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木材的原料主要來自於空氣
03:28
Now, I passed all my biology exams in Britain.
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我在英國念書時考生物每考必過
03:32
I passed them really well, but I still came out of school
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我的成績很好，但畢業後
03:34
thinking that that stuff came out of the ground.
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還是以為木材來自於大地
03:37
Second one: can you light a little torch-bulb with a battery bulb and one piece of wire?
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你能用1顆電池和1條電線點亮燈泡嗎？
03:41
Yes, you can, and I'll show you in a second how to do that.
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沒錯，可以，我會示範要如何做到
03:43
Now, I have some rather bad news,
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現在有個壞消息
03:45
which is that I had a piece of video that I was about to show you,
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本來有個影片要給大家看
03:48
which unfortunately -- the sound doesn't work in this room,
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可惜在這邊聲音放不出來
03:51
so I'm going to describe to you, in true "Monty Python" fashion,
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所以我就用講的，用比較喜感的方式
03:54
what happens in the video. And in the video, a group of researchers
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影片內容是這樣的，在影片裡有一群研究員
03:59
go to MIT on graduation day.
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在畢業典禮那天去麻省理工學院
04:01
We chose MIT because, obviously, that's a very long way away
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為什麼是麻省理工呢？因為它離這裡很遠
04:04
from here, and you wouldn't mind too much,
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大家也就不會太介意
04:06
but it sort of works the same way in Britain
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不過場景設在英國也差不多
04:09
and in the West Coast of the USA.
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或是設在美國西岸
04:11
And we asked them these questions, and we asked those questions
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我們問了麻省理工的畢業生這四個問題
04:15
of science graduates, and they couldn't answer them.
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他們答不出來
04:17
And so, there's a whole lot of people saying,
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而且還有很多學生表示
04:19
"I'd be very surprised if you told me that this came out of the air.
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「我很驚訝你說木材是從空氣中來的」
04:21
That's very surprising to me." And those are science graduates.
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「這真的讓我很吃驚」，理工的畢業生這麼說
04:25
And we intercut it with, "We are the premier science university in the world,"
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我們用「我們是全球第一的理工大學」來作結
04:28
because of British-like hubris.
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因為英國人很傲慢
04:30
(Laughter)
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(笑聲)
04:31
And when we gave graduate engineers that question,
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我們拿問題二去問見習工程師
04:34
they said it couldn't be done.
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他們說這不可能做得到
04:36
And when we gave them a battery, and a piece of wire, and a bulb,
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我們拿了電池、電線、和燈泡給他們
04:40
and said, "Can you do it?" They couldn't do it. Right?
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問他們「你能做到嗎?」，他們沒辦法
04:44
And that's no different from Imperial College in London, by the way,
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順道一提，倫敦的帝國學院也差不多如此
04:47
it's not some sort of anti-American thing going on.
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我們不是在做什麼反美的事
04:51
As if. Now, the reason this matters is we pay lots and lots of money
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雖然聽來頗像。重點是我們花了很多錢
04:57
for teaching people -- we might as well get it right.
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來教育大眾，或許能改正大眾認知
04:59
And there are also some societal reasons
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其中也有一些社會因素
05:01
why we might want people to understand what it is that's happening
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讓我們想使大眾了解光合作用如何運作
05:05
in photosynthesis. For example, one half of the carbon equation
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例如，有1/2的碳儲量是人類排放的
05:08
is how much we emit, and the other half of the carbon equation,
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而其餘1/2的碳儲量
05:11
as I'm very conscious as a trustee of Kew,
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我相當關切，身為皇家植物園的受託管理人
05:13
is how much things soak up, and they soak up carbon dioxide out of the atmosphere.
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那1/2的碳儲量就是植物吸收的，吸收二氧化碳
05:18
That's what plants actually do for a living.
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植物就是以此維生的
05:21
And, for any Finnish people in the audience, this is a Finnish pun:
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如果在場有芬蘭人，這是芬蘭話的雙關語
05:24
we are, both literally and metaphorically, skating on thin ice
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我們無論在實際上或隱喻上，都是如履薄冰
05:29
if we don't understand that kind of thing.
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要是我們不明白那些事
05:32
Now, here's how you do the battery and the bulb.
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電池和燈泡只要這要做就行
05:34
It's so easy, isn't it? Of course, you all knew that.
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很簡單，不是嗎？你們都懂了
05:38
But if you haven't played with a battery and a bulb,
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但要是你沒有親手碰過電池和燈泡
05:40
if you've only seen a circuit diagram,
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只看過電路圖
05:42
you might not be able to do that, and that's one of the problems.
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你可能就做不出來，這是個麻煩
05:46
So, why is it hotter in summer than in winter?
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那麼，為何夏天比冬天熱？
05:48
We learn, as children, that you get closer to something that's hot,
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我們從小就知道，離熱的東西太近
05:51
and it burns you. It's a very powerful bit of learning,
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你就被燙到，這真是個震憾教育
05:54
and it happens pretty early on.
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很小的時候大家就學到了
05:56
By extension, we think to ourselves, "Why it's hotter in summer than in winter
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延伸這個論點，我們覺得夏天比冬天熱
05:59
must be because we're closer to the Sun."
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一定是因為我們離太陽比較近
06:02
I promise you that most of you will have got that.
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我相信大多人都懂了
06:04
Oh, you're all shaking your heads,
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哦，大家都在搖頭
06:05
but only a few of you are shaking your heads very firmly.
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不過只有幾個人搖得很堅定
06:08
Other ones are kind of going like this. All right.
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其他人只是這樣子搖而已，好吧
06:10
It's hotter in summer than in winter because the rays from the Sun
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夏天比冬天熱是因為太陽的輻射線
06:13
are spread out more, right, because of the tilt of the Earth.
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傳播得比較多，地球傾斜的關係
06:17
And if you think the tilt is tilting us closer, no, it isn't.
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如果你以為是朝太陽的方向傾斜，那就錯了
06:20
The Sun is 93 million miles away, and we're tilting like this, right?
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太陽離地球1億5千萬公里，地球傾斜角度大略如此
06:24
It makes no odds. In fact, in the Northern Hemisphere,
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傾斜不是差別所在，在北半球
06:27
we're further from the Sun in summer,
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夏天時離太陽較遠
06:30
as it happens, but it makes no odds, the difference.
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跟傾斜沒有關係
06:33
OK, now, the scribble of the diagram of the solar system.
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好，問題四是畫出太陽系的平面圖
06:36
If you believe, as most of you probably do,
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如果大家相信，大多數可能都相信
06:38
that it's hotter in summer than in winter because we're closer to the Sun,
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夏天比冬天熱是因為地球離太陽較近
06:40
you must have drawn an ellipse.
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大家應該都畫了橢圓形
06:42
Right? That would explain it, right?
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對吧？這就能解釋了吧？
06:44
Except, in your -- you're nodding -- now, in your ellipse,
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除非，你點頭了，你畫了個橢圓形
06:48
have you thought, "Well, what happens during the night?"
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你有想過，「夜晚又是怎麼回事」？
06:50
Between Australia and here, right, they've got summer
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澳洲和美國這邊，澳洲是夏天
06:54
and we've got winter, and what --
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這邊是冬天，難道說
06:57
does the Earth kind of rush towards the Sun at night,
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地球在晚上會衝向太陽
07:00
and then rush back again? I mean, it's a very strange thing going on,
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然後再衝回來？這實在很奇怪
07:03
and we hold these two models in our head, of what's right and what isn't right,
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我們腦中有兩種思考模式，對的和錯的
07:07
and we do that, as human beings, in all sorts of fields.
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身為人類，我們什麼事都這樣思考
07:11
So, here's Copernicus' view of what the solar system looked like as a plan.
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左邊是哥白尼畫的太陽系平面圖
07:16
That's pretty much what you should have on your piece of paper. Right?
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比大家紙上畫的好多了，對吧？
07:19
And this is NASA's view. They're stunningly similar.
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右邊是NASA的版本，兩張圖非常相似
07:22
I hope you notice the coincidence here.
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我希望大家注意其中的巧合
07:25
What would you do if you knew that people had this misconception,
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要是你知道人們有錯誤觀念，你會怎麼做
07:29
right, in their heads, of elliptical orbits
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在他們腦中，楕圓形的軌道
07:32
caused by our experiences as children?
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是他們兒時經驗教的嗎？
07:34
What sort of diagram would you show them of the solar system,
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你會給他們看什麼樣的太陽系示意圖?
07:36
to show that it's not really like that?
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證明太陽系不是他們想的那樣
07:38
You'd show them something like this, wouldn't you?
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你會給他們看這種圖嗎?
07:40
It's a plan, looking down from above.
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這是俯瞰的平面圖
07:41
But, no, look what I found in the textbooks.
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可是並非如此，瞧瞧我在教科書裡找到的
07:44
That's what you show people, right? These are from textbooks,
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你會給他們看這種圖對吧？出自教科書
07:47
from websites, educational websites --
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出自教育網站
07:49
and almost anything you pick up is like that.
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你找得到的幾乎都是這種圖
07:51
And the reason it's like that is because it's dead boring
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會以這種視角呈現是因為
07:53
to have a load of concentric circles,
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只有一堆同心圓太死板無趣
07:55
whereas that's much more exciting, to look at something at that angle,
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從這種視角看太陽系比較新鮮刺激
07:58
isn't it? Right? And by doing it at that angle,
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不是嗎？因為弄成這種視角
08:01
if you've got that misconception in your head, then that
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如果你腦中有了這種誤解
08:03
two-dimensional representation of a three-dimensional thing will be ellipses.
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用二度空間來呈現三度空間就會變成橢圓形
08:08
So you've -- it's crap, isn't it really? As we say.
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這真是沒意義，可不是嗎？
08:12
So, these mental models -- we look for evidence that reinforces our models.
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因此，我們尋求證據來增強我們的心智模式
08:15
We do this, of course, with matters of race, and politics, and everything else,
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我們用這種方式處理種族、政治、所有事
08:19
and we do it in science as well. So we look, just look --
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當然也用這種方式處理科學，我們只觀看
08:21
and scientists do it, constantly -- we look for evidence
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是科學家在處理，我們不斷尋求證據
08:24
that reinforces our models, and some folks are just all too able
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來增強我們的心智模式，有些人很有辦法
08:27
and willing to provide the evidence that reinforces the models.
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也樂意提供證據來增強那些模式
08:30
So, being I'm in the United States, I'll have a dig at the Europeans.
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所以我現在人在美國，就會說歐洲人的壞話
08:34
These are examples of what I would say is bad practice in science
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這些圖片都是我認為不良的科學實作例子
08:37
teaching centers. These pictures are from La Villette in France
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類似教學中心，這些圖取自法國維葉特科博館
08:40
and the welcome wing of the Science Museum in London.
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以及倫敦科博館的迎賓翼展示區
08:44
And, if you look at the, kind of the way these things are constructed,
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你看看這些東西建成的模樣
08:48
there's a lot of mediation by glass, and it's very blue, and kind of professional --
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有很多玻璃隔板，藍光色調，弄得很專業似的
08:53
in that way that, you know, Woody Allen comes up
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那種方式，就像是伍迪艾倫從床單裡冒出來
08:56
from under the sheets in that scene in "Annie Hall,"
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在《安妮霍爾》戲中的那一幕
08:58
and said, "God, that's so professional." And that you don't --
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他說「老天，這真是太專業了」
09:01
there's no passion in it, and it's not hands on, right,
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沒有一絲熱情，沒有實作空間
09:04
and, you know, pun intended. Whereas good interpretation --
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這是個雙關，不過也有好的教學方法
09:07
I'll use an example from nearby -- is San Francisco Exploratorium,
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我舉一個例子，離這裡很近，舊金山探索館
09:11
where all the things that -- the demonstrations, and so on,
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在那裡所有的東西，展示品之類的
09:14
are made out of everyday objects that children can understand,
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都是用孩子能懂的日常用品做成的
09:17
it's very hands-on, and they can engage with, and experiment with.
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都可以動手玩，孩子們可以專心玩好好體驗
09:20
And I know that if the graduates at MIT
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我知道麻省理工畢業生
09:22
and in the Imperial College in London had had the battery and the wire
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以及倫敦帝國學院畢業生
09:26
and the bit of stuff, and you know, been able to do it,
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手上有電池電線點亮燈泡的話
09:29
they would have learned how it actually works,
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他們會明白其中的原理
09:32
rather than thinking that they follow circuit diagrams and can't do it.
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而不是覺得他們照著電路圖來做是做不到的
09:36
So good interpretation is more about
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好的教學方法不是
09:38
things that are bodged and stuffed and of my world, right?
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粗製濫造、沈醉在自己世界裡對吧？
09:42
And things that -- where there isn't an extra barrier
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那些東西也不該被隔著
09:44
of a piece of glass or machined titanium,
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用玻璃或是鈦製品隔開
09:47
and it all looks fantastic, OK?
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看起來很炫就好，好嗎？
09:49
And the Exploratorium does that really, really well.
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舊金山探索館在這點做得非常好
09:52
And it's amateur, but amateur in the best sense,
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很不專業，但就是不專業才好
09:55
in other words, the root of the word being of love and passion.
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也就是說，不專業是出自愛和熱情
10:00
So, children are not empty vessels, OK?
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所以，孩童不是空瓶子
10:02
So, as "Monty Python" would have it,
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用喜感的方式來說
10:04
this is a bit Lord Privy Seal to say so,
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有點像英國掌璽大臣會說的
10:06
but this is -- children are not empty vessels.
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意思是說孩童不是空無一物的瓶子
10:08
They come with their own ideas and their own theories,
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他們生來就有自己的想法和理念
10:10
and unless you work with those, then you won't be able to shift them,
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如果你沒從這方式著手，就改變不了他們
10:14
right? And I probably haven't shifted your ideas
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對吧？我大概沒有改變大家的想法
10:16
of how the world and universe operates, either.
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對於世界和宇宙到底如何運作
10:19
But this applies, equally, to matters of trying to sell new technology.
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不過這也能運用在推銷新科技上
10:22
For example, we are, in Britain, we're trying to do a digital switchover
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例如，在英國，我們試著把全部的電視
10:25
of the whole population into digital technology [for television].
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都換成新科技的數位電視
10:27
And it's one of the difficult things
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有個難題是
10:29
is that when people have preconceptions of how it all works,
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人們對事物運作的方式一旦有了成見
10:31
it's quite difficult to shift those.
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就很難去改變
10:34
So we're not empty vessels; the mental models that we have
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我們不是空瓶子，我們保有心智模式
10:38
as children persist into adulthood.
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從幼年到成年一直都存在
10:40
Poor teaching actually does more harm than good.
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不良的教學是弊多於利
10:42
In this country and in Britain, magnetism is understood better
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在美國和英國，在磁力知識上
10:46
by children before they've been to school than afterwards, OK?
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孩童在就學前學得比較好
10:49
Same for gravity, two concepts, so it's -- which is quite humbling,
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重力知識也一樣，兩個不同概念，這實在可悲
10:53
as a, you know, if you're a teacher, and you look before and after,
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如果你是個老師，看見受教前和受教後的差別
10:56
that's quite worrying. They do worse in tests afterwards, after the teaching.
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實在令人憂心，學童在受教後考得更差
11:00
And we collude. We design tests,
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我們都是共犯，我們設計測驗方式
11:02
or at least in Britain, so that people pass them. Right?
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至少在英國是這樣，好讓人們能通過考試
11:05
And governments do very well. They pat themselves on the back.
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政府也幫了不少忙，他們推波助瀾
11:08
OK? We collude, and actually if you --
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懂嗎？我們都是共犯
11:12
if someone had designed a test for me
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如果有人替我設計測驗
11:14
when I was doing my biology exams,
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在我要考生物的時候
11:16
to really understand, to see whether I'd understood
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讓我能真正明白，明白我是否真的懂了
11:18
more than just kind of putting starch and iodine together
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不是只在澱粉中加入碘液
11:20
and seeing it go blue,
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看著反應呈現藍色
11:22
and really understood that plants took their mass out of the air,
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而且能真正明白植物是從空氣中茁壯的
11:25
then I might have done better at science.
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我的科學可能就會學得比較好
11:30
So the most important thing is to get people to articulate their models.
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所以，最重要的是要讓人們打通心智模式
11:35
Your homework is -- you know, how does an aircraft's wing create lift?
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回家作業是，飛機為何有機翼就能飛？
11:40
An obvious question, and you'll have an answer now in your heads.
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這問題很好懂，大家心中也有答案了
11:44
And the second question to that then is,
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注意事項是
11:47
ensure you've explained how it is that planes can fly upside down.
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你要確保自己能解釋為何飛機能飛上飛下
11:51
Ah ha, right. Second question is, why is the sea blue? All right?
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對吧，問題二，海為何是藍色的？
11:55
And you've all got an idea in your head of the answer.
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大家心中應該都有答案了
11:59
So, why is it blue on cloudy days? Ah, see.
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那麼，為什麼陰天時海還是藍的？看吧
12:03
(Laughter)
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（笑聲）
12:06
I've always wanted to say that in this country.
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我一直想在美國講這句話
12:08
(Laughter)
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（笑聲）
12:10
Finally, my plea to you is to allow yourselves, and your children,
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最後，我希望大家能讓自己，還有孩子
12:14
and anyone you know, to kind of fiddle with stuff,
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以及任何你認識的人，去攪動事物
12:17
because it's by fiddling with things that you, you know,
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因為翻攪了事物，你知道的
12:19
you complement your other learning. It's not a replacement,
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你就補足了其他方面的學習，這不是替換
12:21
it's just part of learning that's important.
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這只是一部分很重要的學習
12:24
Thank you very much.
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謝謝大家
12:25
Now -- oh, oh yeah, go on then, go on.
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那麼，噢，沒闗係，繼續吧
12:28
(Applause)
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(鼓掌)
ABOUT THE SPEAKER
Jonathan Drori - EducatorJonathan Drori commissioned the BBC's very first websites, one highlight in a long career devoted to online culture and educational media -- and understanding how we learn.
Why you should listen
Jonathan Drori has dedicated his career to media and learning. As the Head of Commissioning for BBC Online, he led the effort to create bbc.co.uk, the online face of the BBC (an effort he recalls fondly). He came to the web from the TV side of the BBC, where as an editor and producer he headed up dozens of television series on science, education and the arts.
After almost two decades at the BBC, he's now a director at Changing Media Ltd., a media and education consultancy, and is a visiting professor at University of Bristol, where he studies educational media and misperceptions in science. He continues to executive produce the occasional TV series, including 2004's award-winning "The DNA Story" and 2009's "Great Sperm Race." He is on the boards of the Royal Botanic Gardens and the Woodland Trust.
(Photo: Lloyd Davis/flickr)
Jonathan Drori | Speaker | TED.com