ABOUT THE SPEAKER
David Brenner - Radiation scientist
We are decidedly losing the war against superbugs, and with a projected annual death toll by 2050 of 10 million people. David Brenner would like to stop that.

Why you should listen

David Brenner directs the Center for Radiological Research at Columbia University Medical Center in New York City and has numerous distinctions within his field such as the Oxford University Weldon Prize and the Radiation Research Society Failla Gold Medal Award. Founded by a student of Marie Curie more than a century ago, the Center for Radiological Research is committed to exploiting all forms of radiation to improve medical care.

As Brenner sees it, radiation is very much a two-edged sword -- used in the right way it has revolutionized modern medicine, such as through CT scans and as a cure for many cancers. But radiation used in the wrong way can be harmful. To maximize the benefits of the many different types of radiation, we need to understand exactly how they affect us, from our DNA to the whole person.

Over the past six years, Brenner and his team have applied this idea in working towards a safe way to kill drug-resistant bacteria such as MRSA, as well as airborne microbes such as influenza and TB, using a unique type of ultra-violet light, known as far-UVC.

In short, it is pure physics -- far-UVC light is safe for us because it cannot even penetrate through the dead-cell layer on the surface of our skin or the tear layer on the surface of our eyes. But because bacteria and viruses are physically very small, far-UVC light does have enough penetration to efficiently kill them.

Brenner envisions a wide range of applications for this new weapon in the war against superbugs, such as in operating rooms during surgery to minimize the risk of surgical site infections, in schools to prevent the spread of influenza or measles, in shelters to prevent the spread of TB, or in airplanes and airports to prevent the global spread of viruses like H1N1.

More profile about the speaker
David Brenner | Speaker | TED.com
TED2017

David Brenner: A new weapon in the fight against superbugs

大衛布倫納: 對抗超級病菌的新武器

Filmed:
1,239,621 views

自從四十年代開始廣泛使用抗生素以後,我們就一直嘗試在細菌迅速演化前,開發出新的藥物--但這項策略行不通。有抗藥性的細菌,也就是所謂的超級病菌,在去年就造成近七十萬人死亡。到 2050 年,這個數字可能會達到一千萬,比癌症一年造成的死亡數還高。物理能幫上忙嗎?講者大衛布倫納是位科學先鋒、放射線科學家。他分享一種可能可以救命的武器研究:紫外光的一種波長,即遠紫外線,能安全地殺死超級病菌,且不會穿透我們的皮膚。演講後還有與 TED 策展人克里斯安德森的問答。
- Radiation scientist
We are decidedly losing the war against superbugs, and with a projected annual death toll by 2050 of 10 million people. David Brenner would like to stop that. Full bio

Double-click the English transcript below to play the video.

00:13
So ... we're in a real真實 live生活 war戰爭
at the moment時刻,
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所以…我們現在正處於真實的戰爭中,
00:18
and it's a war戰爭 that we're truly losing失去.
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且我們真的在節節敗退。
00:20
It's a war戰爭 on superbugs超級細菌.
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這是場與超級病菌之戰。
00:25
So you might威力 wonder奇蹟,
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你們可能會納悶,
如果我要來談超級病菌,
00:27
if I'm going to talk about superbugs超級細菌,
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為什麼我給各位看的是
一些足球迷的照片?
00:29
why I'm showing展示 you a photograph照片
of some soccer足球 fans球迷 --
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00:33
Liverpool利物浦 soccer足球 fans球迷
celebrating慶祝 a famous著名 victory勝利
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這些是利物浦的足球迷,
正在慶祝一場著名的勝仗,
00:37
in Istanbul伊斯坦布爾, a decade ago.
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十年前在伊斯坦堡的勝仗。
00:40
In the back, in the red shirt襯衫,
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在後排,穿著紅色上衣的,
就是我。
00:42
well, that's me,
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我旁邊戴紅帽子的那位,
是我的朋友保羅萊斯。
00:44
and next下一個 to me in the red hat帽子,
that's my friend朋友 Paul保羅 Rice白飯.
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00:49
So a couple一對 of years年份
after this picture圖片 was taken採取,
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這張照片拍攝後幾年,
保羅去醫院做小手術時,
00:52
Paul保羅 went into hospital醫院
for some minor次要 surgery手術,
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00:56
and he developed發達
a superbug-related超級相關 infection感染,
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受到超級病菌的感染,
然後過世了。
01:00
and he died死亡.
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01:02
And I was truly shocked吃驚.
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我非常震驚。
01:05
He was a healthy健康 guy in the prime主要 of life.
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他是個很健康的人,正值壯年。
01:08
So there and then,
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在那時,
由於幾位 TED 的人給我許多鼓勵,
01:09
and actually其實 with a lot of encouragement鼓勵
from a couple一對 of TEDstersTEDsters,
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我個人向超級病菌宣戰。
01:13
I declared聲明 my own擁有
personal個人 war戰爭 on superbugs超級細菌.
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01:18
So let's talk about superbugs超級細菌
for a moment時刻.
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我們先來談一下超級病菌。
故事開始於 1940 年代,
01:20
The story故事 actually其實 starts啟動 in the 1940s
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當時抗生素被廣泛推廣。
01:24
with the widespread廣泛
introduction介紹 of antibiotics抗生素.
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01:27
And since以來 then,
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從那之後,
抗藥物的細菌就持續出現,
01:29
drug-resistant耐藥性 bacteria
have continued繼續 to emerge出現,
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我們就不得不一直開發更新的藥物
01:33
and so we've我們已經 been forced被迫 to develop發展
newer and newer drugs毒品
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來對抗新的細菌。
01:37
to fight鬥爭 these new bacteria.
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01:40
And this vicious惡毒 cycle週期
actually其實 is the origin起源 of superbugs超級細菌,
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這個惡性循環正是超級病菌的起源,
超級病菌就是我們沒有任何
有效藥物可以對抗的細菌。
01:45
which哪一個 is simply只是 bacteria
for which哪一個 we don't have effective有效 drugs毒品.
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01:51
I'm sure you'll你會 recognize認識
at least最小 some of these superbugs超級細菌.
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我相信你們應該認識
其中幾種超級病菌。
這些是現今比較常見的超級病菌。
01:55
These are the more
common共同 ones那些 around today今天.
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01:58
Last year, around 700,000 people died死亡
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去年,大約有七十萬人
死於超級病菌相關的疾病。
02:02
from superbug-related超級相關 diseases疾病.
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02:05
Looking to the future未來,
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展望未來,
02:09
if we carry攜帶 on on the path路徑 we're going,
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如果我們繼續在現行的路線上前進,
02:12
which哪一個 is basically基本上 a drugs-based藥物為基礎
approach途徑 to the problem問題,
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基本上就是採取以藥物
為基礎的方法來解決問題,
到這個世紀中期,最合理預估,
02:16
the best最好 estimate估計
by the middle中間 of this century世紀
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全世界會有一千萬人
因為感染超級病菌而死亡,
02:18
is that the worldwide全世界 death死亡 toll收費
from superbugs超級細菌 will be 10 million百萬.
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02:24
10 million百萬.
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一千萬人。
02:25
Just to put that in context上下文,
that's actually其實 more
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以比喻來說,這個數字
比去年全世界死於癌症的人數還多。
02:28
than the number of people
that died死亡 of cancer癌症 worldwide全世界 last year.
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02:32
So it seems似乎 pretty漂亮 clear明確
that we're not on a good road,
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所以顯然我們的現行路線
不是很理想。
以藥物為基礎的方法
來解決這個問題是行不通的。
02:37
and the drugs-based藥物為基礎 approach途徑
to this problem問題 is not working加工.
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02:42
I'm a physicist物理學家,
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我是物理學家,
所以我就想,我們是否
可以用以物理為基礎的方法,
02:44
and so I wondered想知道, could we take
a physics-based基於物理的 approach途徑 --
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用一個不同的方法來解決此問題。
02:48
a different不同 approach途徑 to this problem問題.
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02:51
And in that context上下文,
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在那個情況下,
我們能確定的第一件事,
02:53
the first thing we know for sure,
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02:55
is that we actually其實 know how to kill
every一切 kind of microbe微生物,
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就是我們確實知道如何
殺死每一種微生物,
02:59
every一切 kind of virus病毒,
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每一種病毒,
每一種細菌。
03:00
every一切 kind of bacteria.
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03:02
And that's with ultraviolet紫外線 light.
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做法就是用紫外線。
03:05
We've我們已經 actually其實 known已知 this
for more than 100 years年份.
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我們早在一百年前就知道這件事了。
03:08
I think you all know
what ultraviolet紫外線 light is.
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我想,你們都知道紫外線是什麼。
03:11
It's part部分 of a spectrum光譜
that includes包括 infrared紅外線,
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它是光譜的一部份,
光譜上包括了紅外線,
它包括了可見光,
03:14
it includes包括 visible可見 light,
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其中短波長的部份就是紫外線。
03:16
and the short-wavelength短波長 part部分
of this group is ultraviolet紫外線 light.
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03:21
The key thing from our perspective透視 here
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我們想法的關鍵是
03:24
is that ultraviolet紫外線 light kills殺死 bacteria
by a completely全然 different不同 mechanism機制
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紫外線殺死細菌的機制
完全不同於藥物殺死細菌的方法。
03:29
from the way drugs毒品 kill bacteria.
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03:32
So ultraviolet紫外線 light is just as capable
of killing謀殺 a drug-resistant耐藥性 bacteria
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紫外線能夠殺死
那些能抵抗藥物的細菌,
就像殺死其他細菌一樣。
03:38
as any other bacteria,
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03:40
and because ultraviolet紫外線 light
is so good at killing謀殺 all bugs蟲子,
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因為紫外線非常擅長
殺死所有的細菌,
03:45
it's actually其實 used a lot these days
to sterilize消毒 rooms客房,
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其實近期它常常被用來消毒房間、
03:48
sterilize消毒 working加工 surfaces.
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消毒工作表面。
03:51
What you see here is a surgical外科 theater劇院
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各位現在看到的是一間手術室,
03:54
being存在 sterilized消毒 with germicidal殺菌
ultraviolet紫外線 light.
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正在用殺菌紫外線進行消毒。
03:59
But what you don't see
in this picture圖片, actually其實,
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在照片上看不到的一樣東西,
就是人。
04:02
is any people,
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這背後有個很好的理由。
04:03
and there's a very good reason原因 for that.
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紫外線對人體的健康有害,
04:06
Ultraviolet紫外線 light
is actually其實 a health健康 hazard冒險,
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它可能會傷害我們的皮膚細胞,
04:09
so it can damage損傷 cells細胞 in our skin皮膚,
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造成皮膚癌,
04:11
cause原因 skin皮膚 cancer癌症,
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它可能會傷害我們的眼睛細胞,
04:13
it can damage損傷 cells細胞 in our eye,
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造成眼睛疾病,如白內障。
04:14
cause原因 eye diseases疾病 like cataract白內障.
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04:18
So you can't use conventional常規,
germicidal殺菌, ultraviolet紫外線 light
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所以,你不能把常見的殺菌紫外線
用在有人的地方。
04:21
when there are people are around.
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04:23
And of course課程,
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然而,
我們就是想要對人來做殺菌。
04:24
we want to sterilize消毒 mostly大多
when there are people around.
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04:28
So the ideal理想 ultraviolet紫外線 light
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所以,理想的紫外線
要能夠殺死所有細菌,
04:31
would actually其實 be able能夠
to kill all bacteria,
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04:35
including包含 superbugs超級細菌,
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包括超級病菌,
但在人類被照射到時,也要是安全的。
04:36
but would be safe安全 for human人的 exposure曝光.
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04:40
And actually其實 that's where my physics物理
background背景 kicked into this story故事.
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那就是我的物理背景
進入這個故事的地方了。
04:45
Together一起 with my physics物理 colleagues同事,
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我和我的物理同事合作,
04:47
we realized實現 there actually其實 is a particular特定
wavelength波長 of ultraviolet紫外線 light
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我們發現,紫外線有一個特定的波長
應該能夠殺死所有細菌,
04:53
that should kill all bacteria,
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而且照射到人類也是安全的。
04:56
but should be safe安全 for human人的 exposure曝光.
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04:58
That wavelength波長 is called far-UVC遠紫外 light,
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那波長被稱為「遠紫外線」,
它只是紫外線光譜上的短波部份。
05:02
and it's just the short-wavelength短波長 part部分
of the ultraviolet紫外線 spectrum光譜.
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05:07
So let's see how that would work.
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我們來看看它是怎麼運作的。
05:10
What you're seeing眼看 here
is the surface表面 of our skin皮膚,
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各位在這裡看到的是皮膚的表面,
我要在皮膚上面的空氣中
加上一些的細菌。
05:14
and I'm going to superimpose疊加 on that
some bacteria in the air空氣 above以上 the skin皮膚.
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05:19
Now we're going to see what happens發生
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現在我們來看看
用常見的殺菌紫外線
在上面照射後會發生什麼事。
05:21
when conventional常規, germicidal殺菌,
ultraviolet紫外線 light impinges撞擊 on this.
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05:27
So what you see is,
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你們現在看到的是,
05:28
as we know, germicidal殺菌 light
is really good at killing謀殺 bacteria,
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如我們所知,殺菌紫外線
真的很擅長殺死細菌,
05:34
but what you also see
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但你們也看到,
05:35
is that it penetrates滲透
into the upper layers of our skin皮膚,
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它穿透過皮膚的上面幾層,
05:38
and it can damage損傷
those key cells細胞 in our skin皮膚
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它可能會傷害皮膚的重要細胞。
05:41
which哪一個 ultimately最終, when damaged破損,
can lead to skin皮膚 cancer癌症.
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當這些細胞受損,
最終可能就會導致皮膚癌。
05:46
So let's compare比較 now with far-UVC遠紫外 light --
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現在來和遠紫外線做個比較--
在同樣的情況下,
05:48
same相同 situation情況,
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05:50
skin皮膚 and some bacteria
in the air空氣 above以上 them.
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皮膚上的空氣中有一些細菌。
05:54
So what you're seeing眼看 now
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現在各位看到的,
是遠紫外線也可以很完美地殺死細菌,
05:55
is that again, far-UVC遠紫外 light's輕的
perfectly完美 fine at killing謀殺 bacteria,
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06:00
but what far-UVC遠紫外 light can't do
is penetrate穿透 into our skin皮膚.
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但遠紫外線卻不會穿透我們的皮膚。
06:05
And there's a good,
solid固體 physics物理 reason原因 for that:
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這個現象的背後有個很好
而且很可靠的物理理由:
06:08
far-UVC遠紫外 light is incredibly令人難以置信, strongly非常
absorbed吸收 by all biological生物 materials物料,
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遠紫外線能被所有的生物材料
以不可思議的程度強力吸收,
06:13
so it simply只是 can't go very far.
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所以它就是走不遠。
06:16
Now, viruses病毒 and bacteria
are really, really, really small,
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病毒和細菌都極其微小,
所以遠紫外線肯定
可以穿透並殺死它們。
06:20
so the far-UVC遠紫外 light can certainly當然
penetrate穿透 them and kill them,
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06:25
but what it can't do
is penetrate穿透 into skin皮膚,
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但它無法做到的,就是穿透皮膚,
06:28
and it can't even penetrate穿透
the dead-cell死細胞 area
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它甚至無法穿透我們皮膚
表面的死細胞區域。
06:31
right at the very surface表面 of our skin皮膚.
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06:33
So far-UVC遠紫外 light
should be able能夠 to kill bacteria,
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所以遠紫外線應該可以殺死細菌,
而且對人體是安全的。
06:40
but kill them safely安然.
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06:43
So that's the theory理論.
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所以理論是這樣,
06:44
It should work, should be safe安全.
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它應該有用,應該安全。
06:47
What about in practice實踐?
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那麼在實際運作時呢?
06:49
Does it really work?
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它真的有用嗎?
06:50
Is it really safe安全?
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它真的安全嗎?
06:52
So that's actually其實 what our lab實驗室
has been working加工 on
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那正是過去五到六年間,
我們的實驗室在努力的,
06:55
the past過去 five or six years年份,
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06:57
and I'm delighted欣喜的 to say the answer回答
to both these questions問題
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我很高興地告訴各位,
這兩個問題的答案,
是很肯定的「是的」。
07:00
is an emphatic語調強的 yes.
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07:01
Yes, it does work,
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是的,它的確有用,
07:02
but yes, it is safe安全.
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是的,它是安全的。
07:04
So I'm delighted欣喜的 to say that,
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我很高興能那麼說,
但其實這結果並不會讓我訝異,
07:06
but actually其實 I'm not very
surprised詫異 to say that,
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因為那很單純就是物理原理。
07:08
because it's purely純粹 the laws法律
of physics物理 at work.
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07:13
So let's look to the future未來.
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咱們來看看未來。
07:16
I'm thrilled高興 that we now have
a completely全然 new weapon武器,
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我們現在有了全新的武器,
我感到很興奮,
07:21
and I should say an inexpensive便宜 weapon武器,
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我應該說是不貴的武器,
能用來對抗超級病菌。
07:25
in our fight鬥爭 against反對 superbugs超級細菌.
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07:28
For example,
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比如,
07:29
I see far-UVC遠紫外 lights燈火 in surgical外科 theaters劇院.
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我可在手術室看到遠紫外線。
07:33
I see far-UVC遠紫外 lights燈火
in food餐飲 preparation製備 areas.
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在製作食物的區域看到遠紫外線。
07:38
And in terms條款 of preventing防止
the spread傳播 of viruses病毒,
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在預防病毒散播方面,
07:40
I see far-UVC遠紫外 lights燈火 in schools學校,
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我可在學校看到遠紫外線,
預防感冒傳播,
07:44
preventing防止 the spread傳播 of influenza流感,
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預防麻疹散佈,
07:46
preventing防止 the spread傳播 of measles麻疹,
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我在機場或飛機上看到遠紫外線,
07:48
and I see far-UVC遠紫外 lights燈火
in airports機場 or airplanes飛機,
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預防像 H1N1 這類病毒在全球散佈。
07:52
preventing防止 the global全球 spread傳播
of viruses病毒 like H1N1 virus病毒.
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07:58
So back to my friend朋友 Paul保羅 Rice白飯.
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回到我的朋友保羅萊斯。
在我們的家鄉利物浦,
08:00
He was actually其實 a well-known知名
and well-loved深受喜愛 local本地 politician政治家
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他其實是位知名
且受愛戴的當地政治家,
08:04
in his and my hometown家鄉 of Liverpool利物浦,
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08:06
and they put up a statue雕像 in his memory記憶
in the center中央 of Liverpool利物浦,
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他們在利物浦的中心
為他立了一座紀念雕像,
就這個。
08:11
and there it is.
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08:12
But me,
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但是我,
我希望保羅留給世人的是
在超級病菌之戰中的重大進展。
08:14
I want Paul's保羅 legacy遺產 to be a major重大的 advance提前
in this war戰爭 against反對 superbugs超級細菌.
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08:20
Armed武裝 with the power功率 of light,
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有了遠紫外線為武器,
08:22
that's actually其實 within our grasp把握.
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勝利已經不遠了。
08:25
Thank you.
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謝謝。
08:26
(Applause掌聲)
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(掌聲)
08:31
Chris克里斯 Anderson安德森: Stay up here, David大衛,
I've got a question for you.
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克里斯安德森:請留步,大衛,
我有個問題想請教。
(掌聲)
08:34
(Applause掌聲)
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08:37
David大衛, tell us where you're up to
in developing發展 this,
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大衛,請告訴我們,
你們開發這個的目的是什麼?
若要實現這個夢想,
08:41
and what are the remaining其餘 obstacles障礙
to trying to roll out
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還有什麼其他障礙待突破?
08:44
and realize實現 this dream夢想?
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08:46
David大衛 Brenner布倫納: Well, I think we now know
that it kills殺死 all bacteria,
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大衛布倫納:我想,
我們現在知道它能殺死所有細菌,
08:49
but we sort分類 of knew知道
that before we started開始,
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但在我們開始之前就知道這點了,
08:51
but we certainly當然 tested測試 that.
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但我們對它做了測試。
08:54
So we have to do lots and lots
of tests測試 about safety安全,
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所以,我們得要做很多
安全相關的測試,
08:56
and so it's more about safety安全
than it is about efficacy功效.
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重點比較是在安全而非效能。
09:00
And we need to do short-term短期 tests測試,
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我們需要做短期測試,
我們需要做長期測試,
09:03
and we need to do long-term長期 tests測試
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以確保使用者不會因此
在多年之後得到黑色素瘤。
09:05
to make sure you can't develop發展
melanoma黑色素瘤 many許多 years年份 on.
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09:09
So those studies學習
are pretty漂亮 well doneDONE at this point.
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所以,目前那些研究都做得很好。
09:13
The FDAFDA of course課程 is something
we have to deal合同 with,
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當然,我們必須得到
食品及藥物管理局批准,
09:19
and rightly正當地 so,
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這是理所當然的,
09:20
because we certainly當然 can't use this
in the real真實 world世界 without FDAFDA approval贊同.
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因為如果要實際廣泛運用,
就一定要先有食品及藥物管理局的核准。
09:24
CACA: Are you trying
to launch發射 first in the US,
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克里斯:你打算先在美國推出,
09:27
or somewhere某處 else其他?
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或其他地方?
09:29
DBD B: Actually其實, in a couple一對 of countries國家.
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大衛:事實上,會在兩個國家。
09:31
In Japan日本 and in the US, both.
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在日本和美國。
09:35
CACA: Have you been able能夠 to persuade說服
biologists生物學家, doctors醫生,
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克里斯:你是否已經
說服了生物學家及醫生,
09:40
that this is a safe安全 approach途徑?
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讓他們相信這是安全的方法?
09:42
DBD B: Well, as you can imagine想像,
there is a certain某些 skepticism懷疑論
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大衛:你可以想像,
一定有人會抱持懷疑態度,
09:45
because everybody每個人 knows知道
that UVUV light is not safe安全.
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因為每個人都知道紫外線不安全。
09:49
So when somebody comes along沿 and says,
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所以當有個人說:
09:51
"Well, this particular特定 UVUV light is safe安全,"
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「這種特定的紫外線是安全的。」
09:55
there is a barrier屏障 to be crossed越過,
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就會有障礙需要跨越,
09:56
but the data數據 are there,
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但我們已經有數據資料了,
09:58
and I think that's what
we're going to be standing常設 on.
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那些資料會是我們的基礎。
10:02
CACA: Well, we wish希望 you well.
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克里斯:祝你順利。
10:04
This is potentially可能 such這樣 important重要 work.
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這是可能是相當重要的研究。
10:06
Thank you so much
for sharing分享 this with us.
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非常謝謝和我們分享。
10:08
Thank you, David大衛.
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謝謝,大衛。
10:09
(Applause掌聲)
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(掌聲)
Translated by Lilian Chiu
Reviewed by Adrienne Lin

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ABOUT THE SPEAKER
David Brenner - Radiation scientist
We are decidedly losing the war against superbugs, and with a projected annual death toll by 2050 of 10 million people. David Brenner would like to stop that.

Why you should listen

David Brenner directs the Center for Radiological Research at Columbia University Medical Center in New York City and has numerous distinctions within his field such as the Oxford University Weldon Prize and the Radiation Research Society Failla Gold Medal Award. Founded by a student of Marie Curie more than a century ago, the Center for Radiological Research is committed to exploiting all forms of radiation to improve medical care.

As Brenner sees it, radiation is very much a two-edged sword -- used in the right way it has revolutionized modern medicine, such as through CT scans and as a cure for many cancers. But radiation used in the wrong way can be harmful. To maximize the benefits of the many different types of radiation, we need to understand exactly how they affect us, from our DNA to the whole person.

Over the past six years, Brenner and his team have applied this idea in working towards a safe way to kill drug-resistant bacteria such as MRSA, as well as airborne microbes such as influenza and TB, using a unique type of ultra-violet light, known as far-UVC.

In short, it is pure physics -- far-UVC light is safe for us because it cannot even penetrate through the dead-cell layer on the surface of our skin or the tear layer on the surface of our eyes. But because bacteria and viruses are physically very small, far-UVC light does have enough penetration to efficiently kill them.

Brenner envisions a wide range of applications for this new weapon in the war against superbugs, such as in operating rooms during surgery to minimize the risk of surgical site infections, in schools to prevent the spread of influenza or measles, in shelters to prevent the spread of TB, or in airplanes and airports to prevent the global spread of viruses like H1N1.

More profile about the speaker
David Brenner | Speaker | TED.com

Data provided by TED.

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