TEDGlobal 2009
Gordon Brown: Global ethic vs. national interest
戈登·布朗談全球倫理和國家利益
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單一國家的利益是否可以和全體人類的利益一致？一個愛國的民選的政治人物是否也能平等地考量其他國家人民的利益？在宣導全球倫理的演講後，英國首相戈登布朗回答TED主持人克里斯安德森的問題。
Gordon Brown - British Prime Minister
Britain's former prime minister Gordon Brown played a key role in shaping the G20 nations' response to the world's financial crisis, and was a powerful advocate for a coordinated global response to problems such as climate change, poverty and social justice. Full bio
Britain's former prime minister Gordon Brown played a key role in shaping the G20 nations' response to the world's financial crisis, and was a powerful advocate for a coordinated global response to problems such as climate change, poverty and social justice. Full bio
Double-click the English transcript below to play the video.
00:25
Chris Anderson: Thank you so much, Prime Minister,
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克利斯.安德森：很感謝您，首相先生，
00:27
that was both fascinating and quite inspiring.
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剛剛的演講真是引人入勝又發人省思
00:29
So, you're calling for a global ethic.
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所以，您要倡導全球倫理
00:33
Would you describe that as global citizenship?
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您會覺得它就是全球公民責任嗎？
00:37
Is that an idea that you believe in, and how would you define that?
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這是您深信的概念嗎？您要如何定義它呢？
00:40
Gordon Brown: I think it is about global citizenship. It's about recognizing
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布朗：我認爲這就是全球公民的責任。
00:42
our responsibilities to others.
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就是去認清楚我們對他人的責任。
00:44
There is so much to do over the next few years
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接下來幾年有很多事要做
00:48
that is obvious to so many of us
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我們都清楚非得要做點甚麼
00:51
to build a better world.
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來讓世界變得更好。
00:53
And there is so much shared sense
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對於我們該做些什麽
00:55
of what we need to do,
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大家也都很有共識
00:57
that it is vital that we all come together.
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而合作是非常重要的。
00:59
But we don't necessarily have the means to do so.
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但是我們不見得有方法可以做到
01:02
So there are challenges to be met.
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所以接下來有很多的挑戰。
01:04
I believe the concept of global citizenship
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我認爲全球公民責任的概念
01:07
will simply grow out of people talking to each other across continents.
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會隨著洲際間的對話自然產生。
01:11
But then, of course, the task is to create the institutions
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當然，主要任務是設置
01:13
that make that global society work.
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有效的全球社會的組織
01:15
But I don't think we should underestimate the extent to which
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我也認爲我們不該低估
01:17
massive changes in technology
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科技所帶來的重大改變
01:20
make possible the linking up of people across the world.
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這使得串連全球的人變得可能。
01:23
CA: But people get excited about this idea of global citizenship,
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安德森：人們對全球公民的概念很有興趣
01:27
but then they get confused a bit again
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但同時也會有疑惑
01:29
when they start thinking about patriotism,
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當他們想到愛國主義
01:31
and how to combine these two.
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並且還要融合這兩個想法。
01:33
I mean, you're elected as Prime Minister
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人們選您當英國首相
01:35
with a brief to bat for Britain.
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您有捍衛英國的責任
01:38
How do you reconcile the two things?
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您要如何去協調這兩種想法呢？
01:42
GB: Well, of course national identity remains important.
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布朗：當然，國家認同是重要的。
01:45
But it's not at the expense of people accepting their global responsibilities.
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但不能因此把全球責任棄之不顧
01:48
And I think one of the problems of a recession
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經濟衰退帶來的問題之一
01:52
is that people become more protectionist,
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是保護主義的興起
01:55
they look in on themselves,
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人們只看到自己
01:57
they try to protect their own nation,
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只會保護自己國家的利益
01:59
perhaps at the expense of other nations.
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並不惜犧牲他國的利益。
02:02
When you actually look at the motor of the world economy,
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實際去看看世界經濟的動態
02:05
it cannot move forward unless
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少了國與國之間的貿易
02:07
there is trade between the different countries.
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它是無法往前進的。
02:10
And any nation that would become protectionist over the next few years
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再過幾年，任一保護主義國家
02:13
would deprive itself of the chance of getting the benefits
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自己也將被摒除在外
02:16
of growth in the world economy.
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無法分享世界經濟發展的利益。
02:18
So, you've got to have a healthy sense of patriotism;
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所以，有健康的愛國主義
02:21
that's absolutely important.
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絕對是重要的
02:23
But you've got to realize that this world has changed fundamentally,
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但你也要了解這世界已經根本的改變
02:26
and the problems that we have cannot be solved
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我們現有的問題
02:28
by one nation and one nation alone.
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不是單一國家就可以解決
02:30
CA: Well, indeed. But what do you do
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安德森：的確，但是當這兩個概念有所衝突
02:33
when the two come into conflict and you're forced to make a decision
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而您必需有所抉擇時，您該怎麽做呢？
02:36
that either is in Britain's interest,
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是保護英國的利益
02:39
or the interest of Britons,
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或者說是英國人的利益
02:41
or citizens elsewhere in the world?
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還是全球其他國民的利益？
02:43
GB: Well I think we can persuade people
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布朗：我想我們可以説服國民
02:45
that what is necessary for Britain's long-term interests,
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為了英國長遠的利益
02:49
what is necessary for America's long-term interests,
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也爲了美國長遠的利益
02:51
is proper engagement with the rest of the world,
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去適當地與全球其他地區的互動
02:53
and taking the action that is necessary.
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並採取必要的行動。
02:58
There is a great story, again, told about Richard Nixon.
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有一個關於尼克森的故事
03:03
1958, Ghana becomes independent,
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1958年，加納獨立了
03:07
so it is just over 50 years ago.
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恰好才剛過五十年
03:10
Richard Nixon goes to represent the United States government
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尼克森副總統代表美國出席
03:14
at the celebrations for independence in Ghana.
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加納的獨立慶祝活動
03:17
And it's one of his first outings as Vice President to an African country.
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這是他首次以副總統的身份去非洲國家訪問
03:22
He doesn't quite know what to do, so he starts going around the crowd
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因為不確定該怎麽做，於是他走進人群
03:25
and starts talking to people in the crowd
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並和人寒暄
03:27
and he says to people in this rather unique way,
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他用一個獨特的開場白
03:29
"How does it feel to be free?"
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”自由的感覺怎麽樣？“
03:32
And he's going around, "How does it feel to be free?"
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邊走邊問”自由的感覺怎麽樣？“
03:34
"How does it feel to be free?"
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”自由的感覺怎麽樣？“
03:36
And then someone says, "How should I know? I come from Alabama."
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結果有個人回答 “我哪知道？我是從阿拉巴馬來的”
03:39
(Laughter)
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（笑聲）
03:42
And that was the 1950s.
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那是五零年代的事了
03:45
Now, what is remarkable
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值得注意的是
03:48
is that civil rights in America were achieved in the 1960s.
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美國的民權已在六零年代普及
03:54
But what is equally remarkable
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不能忽視的是
03:56
is socioeconomic rights in Africa
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非洲的社會經濟權
03:58
have not moved forward very fast
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在結束殖民時代後
04:01
even since the age of colonialism.
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卻沒有向前快速發展。
04:04
And yet, America and Africa
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然而，美國和非洲
04:06
have got a common interest.
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一直是禍福相依
04:08
And we have got to realize that if we don't link up
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我們必須知道，如果我們不串起
04:11
with those people who are sensible voices and democratic voices in Africa,
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非洲人理性和追求民主的聲音
04:15
to work together for common causes,
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來一起奮鬥
04:17
then the danger of Al Qaeda and related groups
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那麽基地組織一類的團體
04:20
making progress in Africa is very big.
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在非洲擴張的機會是很大的。
04:22
So, I would say that what seems sometimes
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所以我說，我們對非洲
04:24
to be altruism, in relation to Africa,
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或其他發展中國家的作爲
04:27
or in relation to developing countries,
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有時候像是利他主義
04:29
is more than that. It is enlightened self-interest
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其實更多是從自我利益出發
04:31
for us to work with other countries.
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而去跟其他國家合作。
04:33
And I would say that national interest
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我並認爲，國家的利益
04:35
and, if you like, what is the global interest
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跟全球的利益
04:37
to tackle poverty and climate change
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如：對付貧窮和氣候變遷
04:39
do, in the long run, come together.
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在長期來看，是一致的。
04:42
And whatever the short-run price for taking action on climate change
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在短期間，為應付氣候變遷
04:45
or taking action on security, or taking action to provide opportunities
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為安全問題採取行動，或為其他人
04:47
for people for education,
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提供教育的機會
04:49
these are prices that are worth paying
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這些付出都是值得的
04:51
so that you build a stronger global society
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你將建立一個更健全的全球社會
04:54
where people feel able to feel comfortable with each other
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人們可以互相和平共處
04:57
and are able to communicate with each other in such a way
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也可以互相溝通
05:00
that you can actually build stronger links between different countries.
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各國間的關係也更穩固。
05:03
CA: We're in Oxford, which is the home
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安德森：這裡是牛津，
05:05
of philosophical thought experiments.
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哲學思想的實驗地。
05:08
And so here is one that kind of goes --
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這裡有一個這樣的例子
05:10
I still just want to draw out on this issue.
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我想更深入了解這個議題
05:13
So, you're on vacation at a nice beach,
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假設您在海灘上度假
05:17
and word comes through that there's been a massive earthquake
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發生了一個大地震
05:20
and that there is a tsunami advancing on the beach.
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大海嘯接著向海灘襲來
05:22
One end of the beach there is a house
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海灘的一端有一個房子
05:25
containing a family of five Nigerians.
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住著一家五口的奈及利亞人。
05:27
And at the other end of the beach
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在海灘的另一端
05:29
there is a single Brit.
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只住一個英國人。
05:31
You have time to --
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您的時間
05:33
(Laughter)
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（笑聲）
05:34
you have time to alert one house. What do you do?
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只夠通知一戶人家。您會怎麽做？
05:37
(Laughter)
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（笑聲）
05:39
GB: Modern communications.
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布朗：現代的通訊
05:41
(Applause)
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（掌聲）
05:44
Alert both.
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兩家都通知
05:46
(Applause)
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（掌聲）
05:50
I do agree that my responsibility
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我同意我的首要責任
05:53
is first of all to make sure that people in our country are safe.
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是保障我們國民的安全
05:56
And I wouldn't like anything that is said today to suggest
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我今天所說的也絕不是企圖
06:00
that I am diminishing the importance of the responsibility
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削弱各個領導人對他們國家
06:02
that each individual leader has for their own country.
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負起責任的重要性。
06:05
But I'm trying to suggest that there is a huge opportunity
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我們現在有一個大好機會
06:08
open to us that was never open to us before.
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眼前是全新的局面。
06:10
But the power to communicate across borders
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而跨國界溝通的能力
06:12
allows us to organize the world in a different way.
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讓我們能用新方法來動員這世界。
06:16
And I think, look at the tsunami, it's a classic example.
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東亞的大海嘯，是標準的例子
06:20
Where was the early warning systems?
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那時候有早期預警系統嗎？
06:22
You know? Where was the world acting together
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世界各國一起合作
06:25
to deal with the problems that they knew arose
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來應付地震或者是
06:28
from the potential for earthquakes,
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氣候變遷可能引起的後果
06:30
as well as the potential for climate change?
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以前有這樣的合作嗎？
06:32
And when the world starts to work together,
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當世界各國開始合作
06:34
with better early warning systems,
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來準備早期預警系統
06:36
then you can deal with some of these problems in a far better way.
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這些問題將可以處理得更好。
06:38
I just think we're not seeing, at the moment,
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只是我們還沒看清
06:40
the huge opportunities open to us
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擺在我們眼前的大好機會
06:42
by the ability of people to cooperate
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那就是：藉由人們的合作
06:45
in a world where either there was isolationism before
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才能真的處理到問題的核心
06:48
or there was limited alliances based on convenience
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而這是以前孤立主義
06:51
which never actually took you to deal with some of the central problems.
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或有限結盟的組織所辦不到的。
06:55
CA: But I think this is the frustration that perhaps
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安德森：但我覺得這是很多人
06:57
a lot people have, like people in the audience here,
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包括在場聽衆都有的挫折感
06:59
where we love the kind of language that you're talking about.
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這也是為什麼您的話這麼地鼓舞人心
07:02
It is inspiring. A lot of us believe
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大部分的人也都相信
07:04
that that has to be the world's future.
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世界的未來就該是這樣。
07:07
And yet, when the situation changes,
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但是，一旦情況改變
07:10
you suddenly hear politicians talking as if,
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政治人物又會說另一套
07:13
you know, for example, the life of one American soldier
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例如說，好像無數伊拉克百姓的命
07:16
is worth countless numbers of Iraqi civilians.
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比一個美國大兵的命還不值。
07:19
When the pedal hits the metal,
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一旦踢到鐵板
07:23
the idealism can get moved away.
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理想主義會很快消逝
07:26
I'm just wondering how --
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我想知道，
07:29
whether you can see that changing over time,
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您覺得到現在
07:31
whether you see in Britain
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或是在英國裏
07:33
that there are changing attitudes, and that people are actually
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有看到人們態度的轉變嗎？
07:36
more supportive of the kind of global ethic that you talk about.
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是否有更多人支持您說的全球倫理？
07:41
GB: I think every religion, every faith,
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布朗：我認爲所有的宗教，信念
07:44
and I'm not just talking here to people of faith or religion --
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不只針對有信教的人
07:47
it has this global ethic at the center
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其中心信念
07:49
of its credo.
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都有這全球倫理。
07:51
And whether it's Jewish or whether it's Muslim
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無論是猶太教，回教
07:54
or whether it's Hindu, or whether it's Sikh,
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印度教，或錫克教
07:57
the same global ethic is at the heart
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全球倫理都是
07:59
of each of these religions.
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在這些宗教的中心。
08:02
So, I think you're dealing with something
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所以我們談的概念
08:04
that people instinctively
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本來就是
08:06
see as part of that moral sense.
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人們道德感的一部分。
08:09
So you're building on something that is not pure self-interest.
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所以你經營的基礎不是自利
08:13
You're building on people's ideas and values --
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是人們的理想和價值觀
08:17
that perhaps they're candles that
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而這就像是在角落
08:19
burn very dimly on certain occasions.
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微微發光的蠟燭
08:23
But it is a set of values that cannot, in my view, be extinguished.
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但這些信念是永遠不會熄滅的。
08:27
Then the question is,
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接下來的問題是
08:29
how do you make that change happen?
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你如何使這個改變發生？
08:32
How do you persuade people
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你如何說服人們
08:34
that it is in their interest
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這是為了他們自身的利益
08:36
to build strong ... After the Second World War,
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來建立...二次世界大戰後
08:39
we built institutions, the United Nations,
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成立了一些國際組織，如聯合國
08:42
the IMF, the World Bank,
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國際貨幣組織，世界銀行
08:44
the World Trade Organization, the Marshall Plan.
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國際貿易組織，馬歇爾計劃
08:46
There was a period in which people talked about an act of creation,
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那時大家還會期待新的作為
08:50
because these institutions were so new.
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因爲這些組織還很新。
08:52
But they are now out of date. They don't deal with the problems.
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但現在他們已經過時了。無法應付問題
08:54
As I said, you can't deal with the environmental problem
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如我所說的，現存的組織
08:56
through existing institutions.
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已無法應付環境的問題。
08:58
You can't deal with the security problem in the way that you need to.
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安全的問題也無法應付
09:02
You can't deal with the economic and financial problem.
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也無法應付經濟和財政的問題。
09:04
So we have got to rebuild our global institutions,
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所以我們必須重建全球的組織，
09:07
build them in a way that is suitable to the challenges of this time.
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使他們能面對現在的挑戰
09:10
And I believe that if you look at the biggest challenge we face,
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看看我們現在最大的挑戰
09:13
it is to persuade people to have the confidence
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其實是使人們去相信
09:16
that we can build a truly global society
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以這些信念建立的組織
09:19
with the institutions that are founded on these rules.
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會產生一個真正的全球社會。
09:22
So, I come back to my initial point.
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所以，回到我的出發點
09:24
Sometimes you think things are impossible.
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總有人說這是辦不到的
09:26
Nobody would have said 50 years ago
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50年以前，沒有人會相信
09:28
that apartheid would have gone in 1990,
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南非的隔離主義會在1990年結束
09:30
or that the Berlin wall would have fallen
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或是柏林圍牆
09:32
at the turn of the '80s and '90s,
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會在八零年代末倒下
09:35
or that polio could be eradicated, or that perhaps 60 years ago
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小兒麻痹可以根絕。或是六十年前
09:38
nobody would have said that a man could have gone to the moon.
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沒有人會說人類可以飛上月球
09:40
All these things have happened.
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但這些事都發生了。
09:42
By tackling the impossible, you make the impossible possible.
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只要開始面對不可能的事，不可能也會變可能。
09:45
CA: And we have had a speaker who said that very thing,
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安德森：我們之前有個演講者也這麽說
09:49
and swallowed a sword right after that, which was quite dramatic.
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說完了還表演吞劍。十分有戲劇性。
09:52
(Laughter)
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（笑聲）
09:53
GB: Followed my sword will swallow.
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接下來該我吞劍了
09:56
CA: But, surely a true global ethic
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安德森：然而，真正的全球倫理
09:59
is for someone to say,
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是人們可以說
10:01
"I believe the life of every human on the planet
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“我相信這世上的每個人
10:04
is worth the same, equal consideration,
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不論他的國籍和宗教
10:07
regardless of nationality and religion."
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都有同樣的價值，得到同等的對待“
10:10
And you have politicians who have --
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身為政治人物，您是由選民選出的
10:13
you're elected. In a way, you can't say that.
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某種意義上，您不能這麽說
10:16
Even if, as a human being, you believe that,
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即使，身爲人類，您認同這句話
10:18
you can't say that. You're elected for Britain's interests.
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您還是不能這麽說。人們選您是爲了保衛英國的利益。
10:21
GB: We have a responsibility to protect.
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布朗：我們有責任去保護
10:24
I mean look, 1918, the Treaty of Versailles,
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看，1918年的凡爾賽條約
10:28
and all the treaties before that, the Treaty of Westphalia and everything else,
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和之前所有的條約，威斯特伐利亞條約等
10:31
were about protecting the sovereign right of individual countries
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都只是為了保全單一國家主權
10:34
to do what they want.
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使他們爲所欲爲。
10:36
Since then, the world has moved forward,
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在那以後，世界進步了
10:38
partly as a result of what happened with the Holocaust,
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部分是因爲發生了猶太人大屠殺
10:41
and people's concern about the rights of individuals
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人們開始關心他國領土上
10:44
within territories where they need protection,
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未受保障的人的權益，
10:47
partly because of what we saw in Rwanda,
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部分是因爲看到了盧安達大屠殺
10:50
partly because of what we saw in Bosnia.
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還有波士尼亞内戰的慘劇。
10:52
The idea of the responsibility to protect
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“有責任去保護
10:54
all individuals who are in situations
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所有處在人道災難的
10:56
where they are at humanitarian risk
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情況下的每一個人”
10:58
is now being established as a principle which governs the world.
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已經是管理世界的主流原則之一。
11:01
So, while I can't automatically say
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所以，雖然我不能保證
11:05
that Britain will rush to the aid
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英國將竭力協助
11:08
of any citizen of any country, in danger,
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所有處於危難的國家與人民
11:11
I can say that Britain is in a position
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但我相信英國已經準備好
11:14
where we're working with other countries
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跟其他國家一起合作
11:16
so that this idea that you have a responsibility
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這就是 “有責任去保護
11:18
to protect people who are victims of either genocide
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受到種族屠殺或人道災難
11:21
or humanitarian attack,
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的人民” 的概念。
11:24
is something that is accepted by the whole world.
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是全球都能接受的概念。
11:26
Now, in the end, that can only be achieved
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而這只有在國際組織
11:28
if your international institutions work well enough
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發揮應有效用的時候
11:30
to be able to do so.
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才能達到的。
11:32
And that comes back to what the future role of the United Nations,
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這囘到聯合國的未來角色
11:35
and what it can do, actually is.
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這是聯合國確實能做到的。
11:37
But, the responsibility to protect
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但是“去保護的責任”
11:39
is a new idea that is, in a sense,
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是一個新的概念
11:41
taken over from the idea of
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是從管理國際社群的
11:43
self-determination as the principle governing the international community.
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"民主自決" 的概念延伸而來的。
11:47
CA: Can you picture, in our lifetimes,
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安德森：您能想見，在我們這一代
11:49
a politician ever going out on a platform
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政治人物能去實現
11:52
of the kind of full-form global ethic, global citizenship?
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完整的全球倫理，或全球公民權嗎？
11:57
And basically saying that "I believe that all people across the planet
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而且承諾 “我相信全球的人
12:03
have equal consideration, and if in power
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都一律平等，一旦掌權，
12:05
we will act in that way.
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我也將平等對待所有人”
12:07
And we believe that the people of this country
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“我相信我的國民也是全球公民
12:09
are also now global citizens and will support that ethic ..."
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而且也將支持全球倫理。”
12:12
GB: Is that not what we're doing
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布朗：針對氣候變遷對策的辯論
12:14
in the debate about climate change?
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不就是全球倫理的實現嗎？
12:16
We're saying that you cannot solve the problem of climate change in one country;
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我們強調，靠單一國家的力量是沒用的
12:21
you've got to involve all countries.
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你必須動員所有的國家。
12:23
You're saying that you must, and you have a duty to help
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大家必須要，並且有責任去幫助
12:27
those countries that cannot afford to deal with
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那些無力面對
12:29
the problems of climate change themselves.
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氣候變遷的國家。
12:31
You're saying you want a deal with all the different countries of the world
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我們要的是一個能串連起所有的國家
12:35
where we're all bound together
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大家一起來減碳，
12:37
to cutting carbon emissions in a way that is to the benefit of the whole world.
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並使大家都能受益的協議。
12:41
We've never had this before because Kyoto didn't work.
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這是前所未有的，因為京都議定書並不成功
12:45
If you could get a deal at Copenhagen,
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如果能在哥本哈根達成協議
12:48
where people agreed, A, that there was
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如果大家能同意以下兩點
12:50
a long-term target for carbon emission cuts,
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A. 一個長程的減碳目標
12:52
B, that there was short-range targets that had to be met
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B. 階段性的短程的減碳目標
12:55
so this wasn't just abstract;
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讓協議不是空談；
12:57
it was people actually making decisions now
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這才是人們在做決定
12:59
that would make a difference now,
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在有所作爲。
13:01
and if you could then find a financing mechanism
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如果能找到一個補貼機制
13:03
that meant that the poorest countries that had been hurt
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在將來的數十年裏補貼
13:06
by our inability to deal with climate change
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因無法解決氣候變遷的問題
13:08
over many, many years and decades
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而受害的貧窮國家
13:10
are given special help so that they can move
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能獲得幫助而轉向
13:13
to energy-efficient technologies,
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使用節能科技
13:15
and they are in a position financially
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並使得他們有足夠的錢
13:18
to be able to afford the long-term investment
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在減碳科技上
13:20
that is associated with cutting carbon emissions,
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作長期的投資。
13:23
then you are treating the world equally,
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這才是平等地對待這個世界
13:27
by giving consideration to every part of the planet
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平等地考慮到地球的每一角落
13:30
and the needs they have.
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和個別的需求。
13:32
It doesn't mean that everybody does exactly the same thing,
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這不表示大家該做同樣的事：
13:34
because we've actually got to do more financially
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在財務上我們的確該多盡一些力
13:37
to help the poorest countries, but it does mean there is equal consideration
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去幫助貧窮國家。而是真正表示
13:40
for the needs of citizens
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地球上的每一個公民的需求
13:43
in a single planet.
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都獲得了平等的關注。
13:45
CA: Yes. And then of course the theory is still
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安德森：理論上而言
13:47
that those talks get rent apart by different countries
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各國還是會為爭奪自己的權益
13:50
fighting over their own individual interests.
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使得這些協議分崩離析。
13:52
GB: Yes, but I think Europe has got a position,
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布朗：但是我想在歐洲
13:54
which is 27 countries have already come together.
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27國已經達成共識。
13:59
I mean, the great difficulty in Europe is if
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歐洲開會最大的困難是
14:00
you're at a meeting and 27 people speak,
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27個代表要輪流發言
14:02
it takes a very very long time.
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那很花時間。
14:04
But we did get an agreement on climate change.
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但氣候政策上我們已有了共識。
14:08
America has made its first disposition on this
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美國在這件事上也有所表示
14:11
with the bill that President Obama should be congratulated
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要恭喜歐巴馬總統使這個法案
14:15
for getting through Congress.
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能在國會裏通過。
14:17
Japan has made an announcement.
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日本也作出了聲明。
14:19
China and India have signed up to the scientific evidence.
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中國和印度也承認其科學證據。
14:22
And now we've got to move them to accept
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現在要促使他們接受
14:25
a long-term target, and then short-term targets.
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一個長期目標以及階段性的短期目標。
14:28
But more progress has been made, I think, in the last few weeks
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過去幾周的進步確實比
14:30
than had been made for some years.
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過去幾年都還多。
14:32
And I do believe
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我真的相信
14:34
that there is a strong possibility
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如果大家合作
14:36
that if we work together, we can get that agreement to Copenhagen.
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在哥本哈根的協議就很可能達成。
14:39
I certainly have been putting forward proposals
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我也提出了一些建議
14:41
that would have allowed the poorest parts of the world
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能讓較貧困的國家感受到
14:44
to feel that we have taken into account
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他們的特殊需求
14:47
their specific needs.
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也被列入考量。
14:49
And we would help them adapt.
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我們會幫助他們適應
14:51
And we would help them make the transition to a low carbon economy.
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並協助他們轉化到低碳經濟。
14:54
I do think a reform of the international institutions is vital to this.
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對此，我認爲國際組織的改革是必須的。
14:58
When the IMF was created in the 1940s,
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當國際貨幣組織在四零年代創立時
15:01
it was created with resources that were five percent or so of the world's GDP.
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它握有全球生産總值的百分之五的資源
15:04
The IMF now has limited resources, one percent.
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現在只剩下百分之一。
15:07
It can't really make the difference that ought to be made in a period of crisis.
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這對需要大破大立的危機時期是不夠的。
15:10
So, we've got to rebuild the world institutions.
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所以我們必須重建國際組織
15:13
And that's a big task: persuading
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這會是個艱鉅的任務: 去說服
15:15
all the different countries with the different voting shares
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所有組織內的國家
15:17
in these institutions to do so.
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同意這麼作。
15:19
There is a story told about the three world leaders
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有一個故事說，世界三大領導人
15:23
of the day getting a chance to get some advice from God.
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某天他們向上帝尋求建言
15:28
And the story is told that Bill Clinton went to God
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柯林頓走到上帝的面前
15:31
and he asked when there will be
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他問上帝什麽時候會有
15:34
successful climate change and a low carbon economy.
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成功的氣候政策和低碳經濟
15:39
And God shook his head and said, "Not this year,
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上帝搖了搖頭，“今年不會，
15:41
not this decade, perhaps not even in your lifetime."
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十年内也不會，你這輩子大概是看不到了。”
15:44
And Bill Clinton walked away in tears
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柯林頓於是含著淚離開
15:47
because he had failed to get what he wanted.
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因爲這不是他期盼的答案。
15:49
And then the story is that Barroso, the president of the European Commission,
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接下來歐盟主席巴羅佐
15:52
went to God and he asked, he said,
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也來到上帝面前問到
15:54
"When will we get a recovery of global growth?"
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“全球經濟什麽時候才能變好？”
15:59
And God said, "Not this year, not in this decade,
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上帝說 “今年不會，十年内也不會
16:01
perhaps not in your lifetime."
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你這輩子大概是看不到了。”
16:03
So Barroso walked away crying and in tears.
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於是巴羅佐也哭著離開。
16:07
And then the secretary general of the United Nations
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聯合國的秘書長
16:11
came up to speak to God and said,
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也來到上帝面前問
16:13
"When will our international institutions work?"
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“什麼時候我們這些國際組織才會起作用？”
16:17
And God cried.
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然後上帝哭了。
16:19
(Laughter)
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（笑聲）
16:21
It is very important to recognize
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很重要的一點是，我們要去確認
16:26
that this reform of institutions
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這個國際組織的改革
16:29
is the next stage after
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的第一步
16:31
agreeing upon ourselves
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是建立在一個
16:33
that there is a clear ethic upon which we can build.
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大家都同意且清楚的全球倫理之上。
16:36
CA: Prime Minister, I think there are many in the audience who
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安德森：首相先生，我想在場的聼眾們
16:38
are truly appreciative of the efforts you made
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很多人都很感謝您
16:40
in terms of the financial mess we got ourselves into.
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對財政危機所做出的貢獻。
16:43
And there are certainly many people in the audience
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對於您提倡的全球倫理的議題
16:46
who will be cheering you on as you seek to advance
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聽衆裏的很多人也會為您加油的
16:48
this global ethic. Thank you so much for coming to TED.
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謝謝您來到TED
16:51
GB: Well, thank you.
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布朗：謝謝。
16:53
(Applause)
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ABOUT THE SPEAKER
Gordon Brown - British Prime MinisterBritain's former prime minister Gordon Brown played a key role in shaping the G20 nations' response to the world's financial crisis, and was a powerful advocate for a coordinated global response to problems such as climate change, poverty and social justice.
Why you should listen
During his long term of office, former UK prime minister Gordon Brown became one of the world's most experienced political leaders, with a deep understanding of the global economy based on 10 years' experience as Great Britain's Chancellor of the Exchequer. He has been a key architect of the G8's agreements on poverty and climate change, and has provided a passionate voice to encourage the developed world to aid struggling African countries. He is an advocate of global solutions for global problems -- through both the reinvention of international institution and the advancement of a global ethics.
While prime minister, Brown promoted technology as a tool for economic (and environmental) recovery. With his charge to "count the carbon and the pennies," research on electric cars and residential energy efficiency are slated to become a major part of the UK's recovery plan. He pushed for universal broadband and a general increase in spending on science. And he sought to use new communication tools like Twitter and YouTube as a means to communicate government policy.
Gordon Brown | Speaker | TED.com