18:11
TEDxPortofSpain

Afra Raymond: Three myths about corruption

アフラ・レイモンド: 汚職に関する3つの神話

Filmed:

トリニダード・トバゴは1970年代にオイルマネーによって巨万の富を蓄えましたが、1982年に衝撃的な事実が明らかになり―経済発展のための投資資金のうち、3分の2が汚職で消失していたのです。この問題に30年間、立ち向かい続けてきたアフラ・レイモンドは、政府の腐敗の歴史を紐解きながら、金融犯罪としての汚職の見方を示します。 (TEDxPortofSpainにて撮影)

- Transparency activist
A leading expert in the fields of property valuation and project management, Afra Raymond is battling the government corruption rampant in his country, Trinidad and Tobago. Full bio

Okay, this morning I'm speaking
さて 今日お話したいのは
00:16
on the question of corruption.
汚職問題についてです
00:18
And corruption is defined
汚職とは 自身の利益のために
00:21
as the abuse of a position of trust
地位を悪用すること
と定義されますが
00:23
for the benefit of yourself -- or, in the case of our context,
時にその恩恵は
00:29
your friends, your family or your financiers.
友人や家族 そして
支援者にまで及びます
00:33
Okay? Friends, family and financiers.
いいですか? 友人 家族 支援者たち
(拍手)
00:35
But we need to understand what we understand about corruption,
しかし私達は汚職について
もっと正しく理解し
00:40
and we need to understand that
これまで教わった誤解を
00:44
we have been miseducated about it, and we have to admit that.
捨てる必要があります
00:47
We have to have the courage to admit that
自らの間違いを認める
勇気を持ち
00:50
to start changing how we deal with it.
汚職との闘い方を
考え直すべきです
00:52
The first thing is that the big myth, number one,
まず汚職に対して
大きな神話があります
00:54
is that in fact it's not really a crime.
第1に 「汚職は実は犯罪ではない」
というものです
00:57
When we get together with friends and family
知り合いや家族と一緒にいる時
00:59
and we discuss crime in our country,
自分の国で起こった犯罪や
01:01
crime in Belmont or crime in Diego or crime in Marabella,
近所で起こった犯罪など
大事件の話はしますが
01:03
nobody's speaking about corruption.
誰も汚職の話なんてしません
01:07
That's the honest truth.
これが現実です
01:08
When the Commissioner of Police comes on TV to talk about crime,
警視総監はテレビで
犯罪の話はしても
01:10
he isn't speaking about corruption.
汚職は話題にしません
01:13
And we know for sure when the Minister of National Security
ましてや 国防大臣でも
犯罪には言及しても
01:15
is speaking about crime, he's not talking about corruption either.
汚職には触れません
(笑)
01:17
The point I'm making is that it is a crime.
私が言いたいのは
汚職は犯罪です
01:21
It is an economic crime, because we're involving the looting of taxpayers' money.
納税者の税金を
横領する経済犯罪です
01:24
Public and private corruption is a reality.
行政や民間での汚職は
もはや現実です
01:28
As somebody who comes from the private sector,
民間企業出身者として
言えるのですが
01:31
I can tell you there's a massive amount of corruption
政府と無関係の民間企業でも
01:33
in the private sector that has nothing to do with government.
膨大な汚職があると
断言できます
01:35
The same bribes and backhanders and things that take place under the table,
お金をこっそり渡したり
する賄賂なんて
01:38
it all takes place in the private sector.
民間では日常茶飯事です
01:41
Today, I'm focusing on public sector corruption,
今日は 民間企業も介入する
公共機関の汚職に
01:43
which the private sector also participates in.
焦点を当ててお話しします
01:47
The second important myth to understand --
第2の神話は 重要で
大きな誤解なのですが
01:50
because we have to destroy these myths,
私達はこれらの誤解を解いて
01:52
dismantle them and destroy them and ridicule them --
汚職について 正しい
認識を持つべきで
01:54
the second important myth to understand
第2の重要な神話は
01:57
is the one that says
「汚職が問題だとしても
01:59
that in fact corruption is only a small problem --
それはささいな問題だ」
02:01
if it is a problem, it's only a small problem,
という神話です
02:04
that in fact it's only a little 10 or 15 percent,
たかが10-15%に過ぎず
02:07
it's been going on forever, it probably will continue forever,
汚職は昔からずっと
永遠に続くから
02:10
and there's no point passing any laws, because there's little we can do about it.
規制する法律は作っても無駄だ
何もできるわけないと
02:14
And I want to demonstrate that that, too,
これはとても危険な
02:18
is a dangerous myth, very dangerous.
神話だと言えます
02:20
It's a piece of public mischief.
世間に損害を与えます
02:22
And I want to speak a little bit,
ここで 30年前の ある出来事を
02:25
take us back about 30 years.
お話したいと思います
02:27
We're coming out today from Trinidad and Tobago,
本日お集まりのここ
トリニダード・トバゴは
02:30
a resource-rich, small Caribbean country,
資源が豊かなカリブの小国で
02:32
and in the early 1970s we had a massive increase in the country's wealth,
1970年代始めに世界中の
石油価格が高騰した時
02:35
and that increase was caused by the increase in world oil prices.
国は大きな利益を得ました
02:40
We call them petrodollars. The treasury was bursting with money.
オイルマネーと呼ばれ
中央銀行はお金で溢れました
02:43
And it's ironic, because
でも皮肉な事に
02:46
we're standing today in the Central Bank.
私達は今 その中央銀行にいます
02:50
You see, history's rich in irony.
そう 歴史には皮肉が
沢山あります
02:52
We're standing today in the Central Bank,
今からする話の多くは
02:54
and the Central Bank is responsible for a lot of the things I'm going to be speaking about.
中央銀行が大きく
関与しているのですが
02:56
Okay? We're talking about irresponsibility in public office.
役所は無責任だという話です
02:59
We're speaking about the fact that across the terrace,
実はこのテラスの向こうの
03:03
the next tower is the Ministry of Finance,
隣の建物は財務省で
03:05
and there's a lot of connection with us today,
これも深い関係があります
03:08
so we're speaking within your temple today. Okay?
つまり敵地でのスピーチ
ということです
03:09
(Applause)
(笑)(拍手)
03:12
The first thing I want to talk about is that
まずお話したいのは
03:17
when all of this money flowed into our country about 40 years ago,
40年前にオイルマネーが
流れ込んできた時
03:19
we embarked, the government of the day embarked
当時の政府は 経済成長を
加速するために
03:23
on a series of government-to-government arrangements
様々な政府間協定を結ぼうと
03:25
to have rapidly develop the country.
手回しを始めました
03:27
And some of the largest projects in the country
国内でもいくつかの
最大級のプロジェクトが
03:29
were being constructed through government-to-government arrangements
アメリカ 英国 フランス等々
03:31
with some of the leading countries in the world,
世界のいくつもの先進国と
03:35
the United States and Britain and France and so on and so on.
政府間協定に沿って
計画されていきました
03:36
As I said, even this building we're standing in -- that's one of the ironies --
この中央銀行でさえも
―これも皮肉ですが
03:39
this building was part of that series of complexes,
そのプロジェクトの
一環で建てられ
03:42
what they called the Twin Towers.
「ツインタワー」と呼ばれています
03:44
It became so outrageous, the whole situation,
この過熱した状況に対して
危機感が持たれ
03:48
that in fact a commission of inquiry was appointed,
審議会が結成されました
03:51
and it reported in 1982, 30 years ago it reported --
そして30年前の1982年に
03:54
the Ballah Report -- 30 years ago,
報告書が提出され
03:58
and immediately the government-to-government arrangements were stopped.
すぐに国家間の協定が
停止されました
04:01
The then-Prime Minister went to Parliament
当時の首相が国会で行った
04:05
to give a budget speech, and he said some things that I'll never forget.
予算演説を 私は忘れられません
04:06
They went right in here. I was a young man at the time.
まさにここでの演説は
まだ当時若かった私の
04:10
It went right into my heart.
心に突き刺さったのです
04:12
And he said that, in fact — Let me see if this thing works.
彼が話したことを
お見せします
04:13
Are we getting a, yeah?—
こちらです
04:18
That's what he told us.
彼はこう言いました
04:21
He told us that, in fact,
「実はオイルマネーや
04:23
two out of every three dollars of our petrodollars
税金などの
04:27
that we spent, the taxpayers' money,
国家所得の3分の2が
04:30
was wasted or stolen.
無駄遣いあるいは盗まれたのでした」
04:32
So the 10 or 15 percent is pure mischief.
10-15% が純粋な被害額だなんて
言いますが
04:34
As we say, it's a nancy-story. Forget it.
そんな作り話はやめましょう
04:38
That's for little children. We are big people,
まるで子供だましです
私達は真実に目を向け
04:40
and we're trying to deal with what's happening in our society.
社会で起きている問題に
向き合おうとしています
04:42
Okay? This is the size of the problem.
問題はその規模です
04:45
Okay? Two thirds of the money stolen or wasted.
3分の2もの予算が消えたのです
04:47
That was 30 years ago. 1982 was Ballah.
この演説から30年たって
04:50
So what has changed?
何か変わりましたか?
04:53
I don't like to bring up embarrassing secrets
こんな恥ずかしい秘密は
04:55
to an international audience, but I have to.
世界中に暴露したくない
でも あえてします
04:57
Four months ago, we suffered a constitutional outrage in this country.
4ヶ月前 この国で憲法を巡る
暴動が起こりました
05:00
We call it the Section 34 fiasco, the Section 34 fiasco,
これを「34項の失敗」
と呼んでいますが
05:03
a suspicious piece of law, and I'm going to say it like it is,
この疑惑の法律が
05:08
a suspicious piece of law
まさに疑惑と言える法律が
05:11
was passed at a suspicious time
不審な時期に
05:12
to free some suspects. (Laughter)
異議なく可決されたのです
(笑)
05:14
And it was called, those people are called
この怪しい人達を
こう呼びます
05:16
the Piarco Airport accused.
「ピアコ空港の被告人」
05:23
I'm going to have my own lexicon speaking here today.
私の辞書にある造語です
(笑)
05:24
They are the Piarco Airport accused.
彼らはピアコ空港の被疑者です
05:27
It was a constitutional outrage of the first order,
これは憲法を巡る
大きな暴動でした
05:29
and I have labeled it the Plot to Pervert Parliament.
まさに腐敗した国会の
陰謀だと言えました
05:32
Our highest institution in our country was perverted.
国の最高機関が
腐敗していたのです
05:36
We are dealing with perverts here
私達は経済や財政を巡る
05:39
of an economic and financial nature.
汚職と闘っているのです
05:41
Do you get how serious this problem is?
いかに深刻な問題か
解りましたか?
05:43
There was massive protest. A lot of us in this room
大きな抗議活動もありました
ここにいる皆さんの中にも
05:45
took part in the protest in different forms.
何らかの形で抗議した
人もいるでしょう
05:47
Most importantly, the American embassy complained,
そこで最も重要なことに
アメリカ大使館の要求で
05:49
so Parliament was swiftly reconvened,
議会は方針を変えて
05:52
and the law was reversed, it was repealed.
この法律を廃止したのです
05:55
That's the word lawyers use. It was repealed.
法律用語でいえば 撤廃です
05:57
But the point is
実は議会は
05:59
that Parliament was outwitted in the whole course of events,
巧妙な方法を使って この法律を
可決させていたのです
06:02
because what really happened is that,
実際には次のようなことが
起こっていました
06:05
because of the suspicious passage of that law,
法律が可決されるかどうか
危うかったので
06:08
the law was actually passed into effect
議会はこの法律を
06:11
on the weekend we celebrated our 50th anniversary of independence,
我が国の50回目の独立記念日
つまり祝日に
06:13
our jubilee of independence.
成立させたのです
06:17
So that is the kind of outrage of the thing.
だから市民は暴動を起こしたのです
06:18
It was kind of a nasty way to get maturation, but we got it,
経済成長のためとはいえ
姑息な手段です
06:20
because we all understood it,
人々はこの不正を見抜き
06:24
and for the first time that I could remember,
私の知る限りで初めて
06:25
there were mass protests against this corruption.
汚職に対する大規模な
抗議活動が行われました
06:27
And that gave me a lot of hope. Okay?
これは私にとって大きな希望でした
06:31
Those of us who are, sometimes you feel like
こういう活動をしていると
06:33
you're a little bit on your own doing some of this work.
自分の行動が無意味なのかと
感じてしまいますからね
06:35
That passage of the law and the repeal of the law
この法律が可決され
撤廃される経緯を通じて
06:38
fortified the case of the Piarco Airport accused.
「ピアコ空港の犯罪者」の
悪事が明らかになりました
06:41
So it was one of those really superior double bluff kind of things that took place.
結果的に この法律が
裏目に出たのです
06:45
But what were they accused of?
では 彼らは何を
したのでしょうか?
06:50
What was it that they were accused of?
何が罰せられるべきなのでしょうか?
06:52
I'm being a bit mysterious for those of you out there. What were they accused of?
状況は少し複雑ですからね
何が問題なのでしょうか?
06:53
We were trying to build, or reconstruct largely,
それは既に古くなっていた空港を
06:56
an airport that had grown outdated.
再建する大規模な
プロジェクトでした
06:59
The entire project cost about 1.6 billion dollars,
総額で約2.5億米ドルの
07:01
Trinidad and Tobago dollars,
プロジェクトです
07:05
and in fact, we had a lot of bid-rigging
そして 入札の過程で
07:08
and suspicious activity, corrupt activity took place.
汚職や不正が起こりました
07:11
And to get an idea of what it consisted of,
何が行われていたのかを明らかにし
07:14
and to put it in context in relationship to this whole
「汚職は小さな問題だ」という神話と
07:18
second myth about it being no big thing,
この話を関連付けるために
07:21
we can look at this second slide here.
2枚目のスライドを見てみましょう
07:24
And what we have here -- I am not saying so,
これは私が言ったことではなく
07:26
this is the Director of Public Prosecutions in a written statement. He said so.
公訴局長官―検察のトップ―が
書面で語ったことです
07:30
And he's telling us that for the $1.6 billion cost of the project,
彼は「このプロジェクトの2.5億米ドルの費用のうち
07:35
one billion dollars has been traced
1.5億米ドルが 海外の口座へ
07:39
to offshore bank accounts.
移されていた」と報告しました
07:42
One billion dollars of our taxpayers' money
1.5億米ドルもの税金が
07:43
has been located in offshore bank accounts.
海外の銀行口座へ
移されていたのです
07:45
Being the kind of suspicious person I am,
私は疑り深い人間で
07:49
I am outraged at that, and I'm going to pause here,
この問題には腹が立ちます
ですが
07:51
I'm going to pause now and again and bring in different things.
ここで一旦この話を止めて 別の話をしましょう
07:54
I'm going to pause here and bring in something I saw
私が去年の11月にウォール・ストリートの
07:56
in November last year at Wall Street. I was at Zuccotti Park.
ズコッティ公園で見た
ことについての話です
07:58
It was autumn. It was cool. It was damp. It was getting dark.
肌寒い秋の日で あたりは
暗くなってきていました
08:02
And I was walking around with the protesters
ワン・ウォール・ストリートビルを見ながら
08:06
looking at the One Wall Street, Occupy Wall Street movement walking around.
オキュパイ・ウォール・ストリートのデモで歩いていました
08:08
And there was a lady with a sign, a very simple sign,
ある女性が プラカードを持っていました
08:12
a kind of battered-looking blonde lady,
見た目はぼろぼろでしたが
08:14
and the sign was made out of Bristol board, as we say in these parts,
彼女は厚紙で作られ
マーカーで文字が書かれた
08:17
and it was made with a marker.
シンプルなプラカードを持っていました
08:20
And what it said on that sign hit me right in the center.
そのプラカードの言葉は
私に衝撃を与えました
08:22
It said, "If you're not outraged, you haven't been paying attention."
「怒らないのは 気にも留めないのと同じだ」
という言葉です
08:24
If you're not outraged by all of this, you haven't been paying attention.
不正に怒らないのは
気にも留めていないのと同じなのです
08:29
So listen up, because we're getting into even deeper waters.
このことを少し掘り下げて
考えてみましょう
08:32
My brain started thinking.
私は考えました
08:36
Well, what if --
では もし―
08:38
because I'm suspicious like that. I read a lot of spy novels and stuff.
私はスパイ小説をたくさん読んでいたので
疑い深いのです―
08:41
What if -- (Laughter)
(笑)
もし―
08:44
But to make it in these wrongs,
でもこういう間違いを正すためには
08:46
you have to read a lot of spy novels
スパイ小説みたいなもので
08:48
and follow some of that stuff, right? (Laughter)
勉強する必要があるでしょう?
(笑)
08:50
But what if this wasn't the first time?
もしこれが初めてでは
なかったらどうでしょう?
08:52
What if this is just the first time
誰かが逮捕されたのは
08:57
that the so-and-sos had been caught?
初めてかもしれませんが
09:00
What if it had happened before? How would I find out?
同じようなことが以前にも
起きていたとしたら?
09:02
Now, the previous two examples I gave
私がさきほど話した2つの例は
09:07
were to do with construction sector corruption, okay?
建設業に関する汚職でしたね
09:10
And I have the privilege at this time
私は現在
09:14
to lead the Joint Consultative Council, which is a not-for-profit.
Joint Consultative Council という
NPOで代表をしています
09:16
We're at jcc.org.tt, and we have the -- we are the leaders
jcc.org.tt で検索してもらえれば
わかるのですが 私達は
09:19
in the struggle to produce a new public procurement system
公共の資金のやりとりでの
新しい資金調達のシステムを
09:23
about how public money is transacted.
作ろうとしています
09:26
So those of you interested in finding out more about it,
もし興味があってもっと
詳しく知りたい方や
09:28
or joining us or signing up on any of our petitions, please get involved.
参加したい方 署名をして
くださる方は ぜひどうぞ
09:30
But I'm going to segue to another thing that relates,
次に私がお話するのは
09:34
because one of my private campaigns I've been conducting
私が3年半以上も関わってきた
CL Financialという
09:37
for over three and a half years
企業に対して行われた
09:39
is for transparency and accountability
救済措置の
09:42
around the bailout of CL Financial.
透明性と説明責任についてです
09:44
CL Financial is the Caribbean's largest ever conglomerate, okay?
CL Financialというのは
カリブ最大の複合企業です
09:47
And without getting into all of the details,
詳細は省きますが
この企業は
09:52
it is said to have collapsed — I'm using my words very carefully —
2009年には既に
破綻していたんです
09:55
it's said to have collapsed in January of '09,
2009年の1月なので
09:58
which is just coming up to nearly four years.
もう4年も前になりますね
10:01
In an unprecedented fit of generosity --
ですが 政府はとても寛容で―
10:05
and you have to be very suspicious about these people --
とても怪しいですね―
(笑)
10:08
in an unprecedented — and I'm using that word carefully —
前代未聞なほどの寛容さを見せ
10:10
unprecedented fit of generosity, the government of the day
当時の政府は
10:13
signed, made a written commitment, to repay all of the creditors.
全ての借金を肩代わりする
という書類に署名しました
10:17
And I can tell you without fear of contradiction
自信を持って断言しますが
10:20
that hasn't happened anywhere else on the planet.
これは世界の歴史で
初めてのことです
10:23
Let's understand, because we lack context.
もう少し詳しく見て行きましょう
10:26
People are telling us it's just like Wall Street. It's not just like Wall Street.
ウォール・ストリートの出来事のようだと
言われますが 全く違います
10:28
Trinidad and Tobago is like a place with different laws of physics or biology or something.
トリニダード・トバゴは他の土地とは
全く違うのです (笑)
10:31
It's not just like anywhere. (Applause)
他の場所と一緒にしては
だめなのです(拍手)
10:35
It's not just like anywhere. It's not just like anywhere.
これはトリニダード・トバゴの出来事なのです
10:40
Here is here, and out there is out there. Okay?
よそはよそ ウチはウチ です
10:45
I'm serious now.
話を戻しましょう
10:48
Listen. They've had bailouts on Wall Street.
ウォール・ストリートでも
救済措置はされました
10:49
They've had bailouts in London.
ロンドンでもされたように
10:52
They've had bailouts in Europe.
ヨーロッパでは救済措置がされていました
10:54
In Africa, they've had bailouts. In Nigeria, six of the major
アフリカでも 例えばナイジェリアでは
トリニダード・トバゴと同じように
10:56
commercial banks collapsed at the same time as ours, eh?
6つの主要な銀行が同時に破綻しました
10:59
It's interesting to parallel how the Nigerian experience has --
ナイジェリアの対応は
とても興味深いです
11:02
how they've treated it, and they've treated it
トリニダード・トバゴに比べると
とても上手に
11:04
very well compared to us.
危機に対処しました
11:06
Nowhere on the planet
世界中を見てみても
11:08
have all the creditors been bailed out
借金を全て肩代わりする救済措置を
11:10
in excess of what their statutory entitlements were.
法の規定を超えて行った国なんて
一つもありません
11:13
Only here. So what was the reason for the generosity?
私達の国だけです
なぜでしょうか?
11:15
Is our government that generous? And maybe they are.
政府がとても寛容だから?
そうかもしれません
11:19
Let's look at it. Let's look into it.
もう少し詳しく見てみましょう
11:21
So I started digging and writing and so and so on,
私はこの出来事について 調査をして
11:23
and that work can be found, my personal work
AfraRaymond.com というサイトで
11:26
can be found at AfraRaymond.com, which is my name.
調査の結果を公表しています
11:28
It's a not-for-profit blog that I run.
AfraRaymond.com は私のブログで
11:31
Not as popular as some of the other people, but there you go.
人気はあまりないですがー
11:34
(Laughter)
(笑)
11:37
But the point is that the bitter experience of Section 34,
そこで この「34項の失敗」という
11:39
that plot to pervert Parliament, that bitter experience
国会による陰謀ですが
11:44
that took place in August,
独立記念日という
11:46
when we were supposed to be celebrating our independence,
祝うべき日に行われた
姑息な出来事について
11:49
going into September, forced me to check myself
私は調査結果を手に入れ
11:52
and recalculate my bearings,
もう一度 見直して
11:57
and to go back into some of the work, some of the stuff I'd written
過去の調査にも目を通し
11:59
and some of the exchanges I'd had with the officials
役人の何人かとも意見を交換して
12:01
to see what was really what.
真実を見極めようとしました
12:03
As we say in Trinidad and Tobago, who is who and what is what?
「誰が何をしたのか」をです
12:05
Okay? We want to try to recalculate.
そのために調査結果を見直しました
12:09
And I made a Freedom of Information application
そして今年の5月に 財務省に対して
12:11
in May this year to the Ministry of Finance.
情報公開を申請しました
12:14
The Ministry of Finance is the next tower over.
財務省はこの隣の建物ですね
12:17
This is the other context.
財務省は中央銀行とは違います
12:20
The Ministry of Finance, we are told,
財務省は 情報公開法の
12:21
is subject to the provisions of the Freedom of Information Act.
対象となるのです
12:23
I'm going to take you through a worked example of whether that's really so.
しかし 情報公開法の対象と
ならないものもあります
12:27
The Central Bank in which we stand this morning
私達が今いる中央銀行は
12:30
is immune from the provisions of the Freedom of Information Act.
情報公開法の対象となりません
12:33
So in fact, you can't ask them anything,
なので 何も聞くことが出来ないし
12:37
and they don't have to answer anything.
何も答えてはくれません
12:39
That is the law since 1999.
これは1999年に成立した法律です
12:41
So I plunged into this struggle, and I asked four questions.
私はこの法律を利用して
4つの質問をしました
12:44
And I'll relate the questions to you in the short form with the reply,
その質問と返答を皆さんに説明して
12:47
so you could understand, as I said, where we are.
私達の国の状況を
把握してみましょう
12:51
Here is not like anywhere else.
トリニダード・トバゴは
他の国とは違うのです
12:54
Question number one:
まずはじめに
12:55
I asked to see the accounts of CL Financial,
CL Financialの会計情報を
見せるよう請求しました
12:58
and if you can't show me the accounts --
もし「見せれない」なら
13:01
the Minister of Finance is making statements,
財務省が作成する収支報告書や
13:03
passing new laws and giving speeches and so on.
法律を可決する判断 演説などは
13:05
What are the figures he's relying on?
どの数字を根拠に行われているのでしょうか?
13:08
It's like that joke: I want whatever he's drinking.
冗談を言っている
ようなものです
13:10
And they wrote back and said to me,
質問に対して質問で返してきたのです
13:13
well what do you really mean?
そして私の受け取った返事は
13:14
So they hit my question with a question.
「どういう意味ですか?」というものでした
13:16
Second point: I want to see
次に私は
13:18
who are the creditors of the group who have been repaid?
CL Financialへの借金の貸し手の
リストを請求しました
13:21
Let me pause here to point out to you all
なぜなら 私達の税金の
13:25
that 24 billion dollars of our money has been spent on this.
240億トリニダード・トバゴ ドルが
これに使われたのですから―
13:27
That is about three and a half billion U.S. dollars
これは米ドルで約35億ドルです
13:31
coming out of a small -- we used to be resource-rich --
この大金が―かつては資源で潤いましたが―
この小さな国から
13:33
Caribbean country. Okay?
拠出されたのです
13:37
And I asked the question,
さらに3つ目の質問で
13:39
who was getting that three and a half billion dollars?
誰がその35億米ドルを
受け取ったかを尋ねました
13:41
And I want to pause again to bring up context,
ここで背景について
少し話をしましょう
13:45
because context helps us to get clarity understanding this thing.
この背景がこれを理解する
手がかりになります
13:47
There's a particular individual who is in the government now.
政府の中に ある役人がいて―
13:50
The name of the person doesn't matter.
名前は言いませんが―
13:53
And that person made a career
その役人は
13:55
out of using the Freedom of Information Act
情報公開法を使って
政治的主張を行い
13:57
to advance his political cause.
キャリアを築きました
14:00
Okay? His name isn't important.
名前は言いませんよ
(笑)
14:02
I wouldn't dignify it. I'm on a point.
重要なのは名前ではないからです
14:05
The point is, that person made a career out of using
重要な事は その役人は
14:07
the Freedom of Information Act to advance his cause.
情報公開法を政治的主張のために
使ったということです
14:10
And the most famous case
最も有名なケースは
14:13
was what we came to call the Secret Scholarship Scandal,
私達が「裏奨学金事件」と呼ぶもので
14:15
where in fact there was about 60 million dollars in government money
政府の資金のうちの 900万米ドルが
14:18
that had been dispersed in a series of scholarships,
全く公表されていない
14:21
and the scholarships hadn't been advertised, and so and so on and so on.
奨学金に使われ続けていたのです
14:24
And he was able to get the court, using that act of Parliament,
彼は情報公開法を利用して
14:26
Freedom of Information Act,
裁判所命令を手にし
14:29
to release the information,
情報を公開させました
14:31
and I thought that was excellent.
私は大変結構なことだと思いました
14:33
Fantastic.
素晴らしいです
14:36
But you see, the question is this:
しかし 問題は
14:40
If it's right and proper for us to use the Freedom of Information Act
もし私達が情報公開法を利用して
14:41
and to use the court
裁判所に
14:46
to force a disclosure about 60 million dollars in public money,
900万米ドルの公的資金の情報を
公開させることができるなら
14:49
it must be right and proper
35億米ドルの行方について
14:54
for us to force a disclosure about 24 billion dollars.
情報公開を請求することも
私達の権利ではないかということです
14:56
You see? But the Ministry of Finance,
そうですよね? しかし財務省の
15:00
the Permanent Secretary of the Ministry of Finance,
事務次官は
15:03
wrote me and said to me, that information is exempt too.
「この情報は例外だ」
と返答しました
15:04
You see? This is what we're dealing with, okay?
私達はこうした「権力」と
闘っているのです
15:07
The third thing I will tell you
3つ目に言いたいことは
15:10
is that I also asked
私が
15:12
for the directors of CL Financial,
CL Financialの役員に尋ねた
15:15
whether in fact they were making filings under our Integrity in Public Life Act.
「公共福祉統合法に従って 申告を行ったか」
ということです
15:18
We have an Integrity in Public Life Act
これはトリニダード・トバゴの法律で
15:23
as part of our framework supposed to safeguard the nation's interest.
国益を守るためのものです
15:24
And public officials are supposed to file
これに基いて公務員は
15:29
to say what it is they have in terms of assets and liabilities.
資産や負債の申告をする
必要があります
15:31
And of course I've since discovered that they're not filing,
そしてもちろん 彼らは
申告をしていませんでした
15:38
and in fact the Minister of Finance has not even asked them to file.
財務省も 彼らに申告を行うよう
指示していなかったのです
15:40
So here we have it. We have a situation where
これが現状なのです
15:43
the basic safeguards of integrity and accountability
説明責任と透明性を
保障するはずの法律が
15:48
and transparency have all been discarded.
ないがしろにされているのです
15:53
I've asked the question in the legal and required fashion.
私は法律に従って
この質問をしたのですが
15:55
It's been ignored.
相手にされませんでした
15:57
The sort of thing that motivated us around Section 34,
「34項の失敗」に対して
16:00
we need to continue to work on that. We can't forget it.
私達は行動を起こし続け
関心を持ち続けるべきです
16:03
I have defined this as the single largest expenditure in the country's history.
これは国家の歴史上で
最大の無駄遣いです
16:05
It's also the single largest example
そして 次にお見せする
方程式によると
16:09
of public corruption according to this equation.
これは国家の汚職の
最たる例なのです
16:12
And this is my reality check.
これがその方程式です
16:17
Where you have an expenditure of public money
国家の支出から
16:20
and it is without accountability
説明責任と
16:22
and it's without transparency,
透明性を除いたものが
16:25
it will always be equal to corruption,
汚職の度合いに等しくなります
16:27
whether you're in Russia or Nigeria or Alaska,
ロシア ナイジェリア アラスカでも
16:29
it will always be equal to corruption, and that is what we are dealing with here.
この方程式は成り立ち
私達はこの汚職と闘っているのです
16:32
I'm going to continue the work
私はこれからも活動を続け
16:36
to press on, to get some resolution
財務省の問題に対する
16:39
of those matters at the Ministry of Finance.
解決策を考えていきます
16:43
If it is I have to go to court personally, I will do that.
もし個人的に裁判所へ出頭する
必要があれば そうします
16:45
We will continue to press on.
私達は戦い続けます
16:47
We will continue to work within JCC.
Joint Consultative Councilも同様です
16:48
But I want to step back from the Trinidad and Tobago context
ここでトリニダード・トバゴ
から一歩引いて
16:50
and bring something new to the table
新たな観点から
16:53
in terms of an international example.
国際的なお話をしましょう
16:55
We had the journalist [Heather] Brooke speaking
ヘザー・ ブルックという
ジャーナリストは
16:57
about her battle against government corruption,
政府の汚職との闘いに
ついて報道していますが
17:00
and she introduced me to this website, Alaveteli.com.
彼女は私のことを [ Alaveteli.org ]
というサイトで紹介してくれました
17:02
And Alaveteli.com is a way for us to have an open database
[ Alaveteli.org ] によって私達は
17:07
for Freedom of Information applications,
情報公開に関する
データベースを公開し
17:12
and speak with each other.
議論ができます
17:15
I could see what you're applying for.
他人が なにを申請したかを
知ることができ
17:17
You could see what I applied for and what replies I got.
どんな返事をもらったのかが
わかります
17:19
We can work on it together. We need to build a collective database
私達は互いに協力して
オープンデータベースを作り
17:23
and a collective understanding of where we are to go to the next point.
これからどこに向かうべきなのか
理解を深めるべきなのです
17:26
We need to increase the consciousness.
汚職に関心を持つべきなのです
17:29
The final thing I want to say is in relation to this one,
最後に私がお話ししたいのは
17:31
which is a lovely website from India
インドの素晴らしい
ウェブサイトである
17:35
called IPaidABribe.com.
IPaidABribe.com についてです
17:36
They have international branches,
似たようなものは他にもあるのですが
17:39
and it's important for us to tune into this one.
私達はこのサイトに注目しています
17:41
IPaidABribe.com is really important,
IPaidABribe.com はとても
素晴らしいので
17:43
a good one to log on to and see.
ぜひ見てください
17:46
I'm going to pause there. I'm going to ask you for your courage.
話はここまでです
ぜひ神話を捨てる勇気を持ってください
17:48
Discard the first myth; it is a crime.
汚職は犯罪です
17:51
Discard the second myth; it is a big thing.
汚職は大きな問題です
17:53
It's a huge problem. It's an economic crime.
大きな問題で 経済犯罪なのです
17:55
And let us continue working together
そして一緒に活動を続けて
17:58
to betterment in this situation,
よりよい社会と
いつまでも繁栄する社会を
18:00
stability and sustainability in our society. Thank you.
築きましょう
ありがとうございました
18:01
Translated by Maki Sugimoto
Reviewed by Yuko Shirakawa

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About the Speaker:

Afra Raymond - Transparency activist
A leading expert in the fields of property valuation and project management, Afra Raymond is battling the government corruption rampant in his country, Trinidad and Tobago.

Why you should listen

Afra Raymond calls out government corruption, demanding more transparency and accountability from the leaders of Trinidad and Tobago. His work in recent years has focused on the CL Financial collapse of 2009 and subsequent government bailout, which Raymond says operated “with different laws of physics” than bailouts of financial institutions in other countries. Writing on topics like white-collar crime, good governance and national development, Raymond shows that corruption shouldn't be a given. He wrote the column “Property Matters” in The Business Guardian from 2004 through 2012. Now, he writes on his own website, AfraRaymond.com.

Raymond looks at corruption through his lens as an expert in the fields of property valuation, project appraisal, development planning and management. He is a Chartered Surveyor and Managing Director of Raymond & Pierre Limited and  was elected a Fellow of the Royal Institution of Chartered Surveyors (RICS) in January 2011. He has served on a number of Boards in various positions including Executive Member of the Federation of Black Housing Organizations (FBHO) in London, Board member of the Trinidad Building & Loan Association (TBLA), Director of EPL Properties Limited (EPL), a wholly-owned subsidiary of Eastern Credit Union (ECU) and Immediate Past-President of the Institute of Surveyors of Trinidad & Tobago (ISTT).

More profile about the speaker
Afra Raymond | Speaker | TED.com