TEDGlobal 2014
Glenn Greenwald: Why privacy matters
Glenn Greenwald: Zašto je privatnost bitna
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Glenn Greenwald bio je jedan od prvih novinara koji su vidjeli - i pisali - o dosjeima Edwarda Snowdena, kroz koje je otkriven rasprostranjen nadzor privatnih osoba kojeg poduzimaju Sjedinjene države. U ovom raspaljujućem govoru Greenwald zagovara razloge zašto trebate brinuti o privatnosti, čak i ako ''nemate ništa za sakriti''.
Glenn Greenwald - Journalist
Glenn Greenwald is the journalist who has done the most to expose and explain the Edward Snowden files. Full bio
Glenn Greenwald is the journalist who has done the most to expose and explain the Edward Snowden files. Full bio
Double-click the English transcript below to play the video.
00:12
There is an entire genre of YouTube videos
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Postoji cijeli žanr YouTube videa
00:15
devoted to an experience which
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posvećenih iskustvu za koje sam siguran
00:17
I am certain that everyone in this room has had.
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da su ga doživjeli svi u ovoj sobi.
00:20
It entails an individual who,
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Ono podrazumijeva pojedince koji se,
00:22
thinking they're alone,
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smatrajući da su sami,
00:23
engages in some expressive behavior —
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upuštaju u određeno
ekspresivno ponašanje —
ekspresivno ponašanje —
00:27
wild singing, gyrating dancing,
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divlje pjevanje, zvrkasto plesanje,
00:29
some mild sexual activity —
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neku blagu seksualnu aktivnost —
00:32
only to discover that, in fact, they are not alone,
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tek da bi otkrili da, zapravo, nisu sami,
00:34
that there is a person watching and lurking,
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da postoji osoba koja ih promatra i uhodi,
00:37
the discovery of which causes them
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otkriće čega uzrokuje da
00:39
to immediately cease what they were doing
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istog trenutka prestanu
s time što su radili
s time što su radili
00:41
in horror.
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u užasu.
00:43
The sense of shame and humiliation
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Osjećaj srama i poniženja
00:45
in their face is palpable.
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na njihovom licu opipljiv je.
00:47
It's the sense of,
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To je osjećaj koji kaže
00:49
"This is something I'm willing to do
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''Ovo sam spreman napraviti
00:51
only if no one else is watching."
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samo ako nitko drugi ne gleda.''
00:54
This is the crux of the work
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Ovo je srž posla
00:57
on which I have been singularly focused
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kojemu sam bio isključivo posvećen
00:59
for the last 16 months,
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tijekom posljednjih 16 mjeseci,
01:01
the question of why privacy matters,
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pitanju zašto je privatnost bitna,
01:03
a question that has arisen
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pitanju koje je postavljeno
01:05
in the context of a global debate,
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u kontekstu globalne debate
01:08
enabled by the revelations of Edward Snowden
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omogućene otkrićima Edwarda Snowdena
01:10
that the United States and its partners,
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da su SAD i njihovi partneri,
01:13
unbeknownst to the entire world,
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skrivajući to od cijeloga svijeta,
01:15
has converted the Internet,
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pretvorile Internet,
01:17
once heralded as an unprecedented tool
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nekoć slavljen kao oruđe bez presedana
01:20
of liberation and democratization,
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za oslobođenje i demokratizaciju,
01:23
into an unprecedented zone
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u područje masovnog
01:25
of mass, indiscriminate surveillance.
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neselektivnog nadzora, bez presedana.
01:29
There is a very common sentiment
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Postoji vrlo učestao dojam
01:31
that arises in this debate,
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koji se pojavi u toj debati,
01:32
even among people who are uncomfortable
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čak i među ljudima koji osjećaju neugodu
01:34
with mass surveillance, which says
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radi masovnog nadzora, a koji kaže
01:36
that there is no real harm
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da zapravo nema neke stvarne štete koja
01:38
that comes from this large-scale invasion
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proizlazi iz te invazije širokih razmjera
01:41
because only people who are engaged in bad acts
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jer jedino ljudi uključeni u loše radnje
01:44
have a reason to want to hide
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imaju razloga da se žele sakriti
01:46
and to care about their privacy.
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i brinu o svojoj privatnosti.
01:49
This worldview is implicitly grounded
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Taj pogled na svijet prešutno je utemeljen
01:52
in the proposition that there are
two kinds of people in the world,
two kinds of people in the world,
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u pretpostavci da postoje
dvije vrste ljudi na svijetu,
dvije vrste ljudi na svijetu,
01:54
good people and bad people.
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dobri ljudi i loši ljudi.
01:56
Bad people are those who plot terrorist attacks
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Loši su ljudi oni koji
planiraju terorističke napade
planiraju terorističke napade
01:59
or who engage in violent criminality
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ili su uključeni u nasilna kaznena djela
02:00
and therefore have reasons to
want to hide what they're doing,
want to hide what they're doing,
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i stoga imaju razloge zašto žele
sakriti što rade,
sakriti što rade,
02:04
have reasons to care about their privacy.
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razloge zašto brinu o svojoj privatnosti.
02:06
But by contrast, good people
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Suprotno tome, dobri ljudi
02:08
are people who go to work,
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oni su koji idu na posao,
02:10
come home, raise their children, watch television.
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dolaze doma, odgajaju svoju djecu,
gledaju televiziju.
gledaju televiziju.
02:13
They use the Internet not to plot bombing attacks
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Oni koriste Internet ne
da bi planirali bombaške napade
da bi planirali bombaške napade
02:16
but to read the news or exchange recipes
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već za čitanje vijesti i razmjenu recepata
02:18
or to plan their kids' Little League games,
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ili kako bi planirali utakmice svoje djece,
02:21
and those people are doing nothing wrong
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i ti ljudi ne rade ništa krivo
02:23
and therefore have nothing to hide
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te stoga nemaju ništa za sakriti
02:25
and no reason to fear
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ni razloge za strah
02:27
the government monitoring them.
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od vladinog nadzora.
02:30
The people who are actually saying that
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Ljudi koji uistinu tako govore
02:32
are engaged in a very extreme act
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podliježu vrlo ekstremnom obliku
02:34
of self-deprecation.
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samo-podcjenjivanja.
02:36
What they're really saying is,
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Ono što zapravo govore jest,
02:38
"I have agreed to make myself
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''Pristao sam učiniti se
02:40
such a harmless and unthreatening
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toliko bezopasnom i neprijetećom
02:43
and uninteresting person that I actually don't fear
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i nezanimljivom osobom
da se doista ne bojim
da se doista ne bojim
02:46
having the government know what it is that I'm doing."
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da vlada zna što sve radim.''+
02:49
This mindset has found what I think
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Ovaj mentalni sklop je
pronašao što smatram
pronašao što smatram
02:51
is its purest expression
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njegovim najčišćim izričajem
02:53
in a 2009 interview with
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u intervjuu iz 2009 godine
02:55
the longtime CEO of Google, Eric Schmidt, who,
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s čelnikom Googla,
Ericom Schmidtom, koji je,
Ericom Schmidtom, koji je,
02:58
when asked about all the different ways his company
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kada su ga pitali o različitim načinima
kako njegova tvrtka
kako njegova tvrtka
03:01
is causing invasions of privacy
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uzrokuje invazije u privatnost
03:03
for hundreds of millions of people around the world,
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stotina milijuna ljudi diljem svijeta,
03:06
said this: He said,
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rekao sljedeće. Rekao je
03:08
"If you're doing something that you don't want
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''Ako radite nešto za što ne želite
03:09
other people to know,
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da drugi ljudi znaju,
03:11
maybe you shouldn't be doing it in the first place."
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možda to ni ne biste trebali raditi.''
03:15
Now, there's all kinds of things to say about
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Sad, može se svašta reći o
03:17
that mentality,
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takvom mentalitetu,
03:20
the first of which is that the people who say that,
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prvo to da ljudi koji kažu
03:23
who say that privacy isn't really important,
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da privatnost nije jako važna,
03:25
they don't actually believe it,
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u to zapravo ne vjeruju,
03:28
and the way you know that
they don't actually believe it
they don't actually believe it
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a možete znati da u to ne vjeruju
03:30
is that while they say with their
words that privacy doesn't matter,
words that privacy doesn't matter,
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zato što iako to govore svojim riječima,
03:33
with their actions, they take all kinds of steps
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njihova djela govore o različitim koracima
03:36
to safeguard their privacy.
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koje poduzimaju da zaštite privatnost.
03:39
They put passwords on their email
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Postavljaju lozinke na svoje e-mailove
03:40
and their social media accounts,
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i račune na društvenim mrežama,
03:42
they put locks on their bedroom
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postavljaju lokote na vrata
03:44
and bathroom doors,
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spavaćih soba i kupaonica
03:45
all steps designed to prevent other people
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a sve je to usmjereno
na spriječavanje drugih ljudi
na spriječavanje drugih ljudi
03:48
from entering what they consider their private realm
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od ulaska u prostor kojeg smatraju svojim,
03:51
and knowing what it is that they
don't want other people to know.
don't want other people to know.
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znajući pritom što ne žele otkriti drugima.
03:55
The very same Eric Schmidt, the CEO of Google,
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Isti taj Eric Schmidt, čelnik Googla,
03:58
ordered his employees at Google
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naredio je svojim zaposlenicima u Googlu
04:00
to cease speaking with the online
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da prestanu razgovarati s online
04:02
Internet magazine CNET
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Internetskim časopisom CNET
04:05
after CNET published an article
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nakon što je CNET objavio članak
04:07
full of personal, private information
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pun osobnih, privatnih podataka
04:09
about Eric Schmidt,
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o Ericu Schmidtu,
04:11
which it obtained exclusively
through Google searches
through Google searches
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koje je dobio isključivo pretražujući
kroz Google
kroz Google
04:14
and using other Google products. (Laughter)
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i koristeći ostale Googlove proizvode. (Smijeh)
04:18
This same division can be seen
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Ista ova podjela vidljiva je
04:20
with the CEO of Facebook, Mark Zuckerberg,
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kod Marka Zuckerberga,
04:22
who in an infamous interview in 2010
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koji je u zloglasnom intervjuu iz 2010.
04:26
pronounced that privacy is no longer
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izrekao da privatnost više ne predstavlja
04:28
a "social norm."
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''društvenu normu''.
04:31
Last year, Mark Zuckerberg and his new wife
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Prošle su godine Mark i njegova nova žena
04:34
purchased not only their own house
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kupili ne samo vlastitu kuću
04:36
but also all four adjacent houses in Palo Alto
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već i sve četiri obližnje kuće u Palo Altu
04:40
for a total of 30 million dollars
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za ukupno 30 milijuna dolara
04:41
in order to ensure that they enjoyed a zone of privacy
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kako bi osigurali uživanje u zoni privatnosti
04:45
that prevented other people from monitoring
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koja je onemogućila
druge ljude da promatraju
druge ljude da promatraju
04:47
what they do in their personal lives.
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što oni rade u svojim osobnim životima.
04:51
Over the last 16 months, as I've
debated this issue around the world,
debated this issue around the world,
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Zadnjih 16 mjeseci, u debatama
o ovoj temi diljem svijeta,
o ovoj temi diljem svijeta,
04:53
every single time somebody has said to me,
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baš svaki puta kada bi mi netko rekao,
04:56
"I don't really worry about invasions of privacy
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''Ne brinem se zapravo o narušavanju privatnosti
04:57
because I don't have anything to hide."
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jer nemam ništa za sakriti.''
04:59
I always say the same thing to them.
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ja bih im rekao istu stvar.
05:01
I get out a pen, I write down my email address.
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Izvadio bih olovku,
napisao svoju e-mail adresu.
napisao svoju e-mail adresu.
05:03
I say, "Here's my email address.
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Rekao bih, ''Evo moje e-mail adrese.''
05:05
What I want you to do when you get home
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Želim da mi, kada dođeš doma,
05:06
is email me the passwords
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pošalješ e-mailom lozinke
05:08
to all of your email accounts,
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svih tvojih e-mail računa,
05:10
not just the nice, respectable work one in your name,
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ne samo lijepog,
poštovanja vrijednog poslovnog e-maila
poštovanja vrijednog poslovnog e-maila
05:12
but all of them,
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već svih njih,
05:14
because I want to be able to just troll through
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jer želim tek baciti pogled na
05:16
what it is you're doing online,
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to što radiš online,
05:18
read what I want to read and
publish whatever I find interesting.
publish whatever I find interesting.
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pročitati što želim pročitati
i objaviti ono što nađem zanimljivim.
i objaviti ono što nađem zanimljivim.
05:20
After all, if you're not a bad person,
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Na kraju krajeva, ako nisi loša osoba
05:22
if you're doing nothing wrong,
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i ako ne radiš ništa krivo
05:24
you should have nothing to hide."
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ne bi trebao imati što za sakriti.''
05:27
Not a single person has taken me up on that offer.
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Niti jedna jedina osoba nije mi odgovorila na ponudu.
05:30
I check and — (Applause)
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Provjerim i — (Pljesak)
05:34
I check that email account religiously all the time.
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provjerim opet taj račun, religiozno, svako malo.
05:38
It's a very desolate place.
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To vam je jedno prilično osamljeno mjesto.
05:41
And there's a reason for that,
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I postoji razlog zašto je tome tako,
05:43
which is that we as human beings,
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a taj je da mi kao ljudska bića,
05:45
even those of us who in words
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čak i oni od nas koji riječima
05:47
disclaim the importance of our own privacy,
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osporavaju važnost vlastite privatnosti
05:49
instinctively understand
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instinktivno razumijemo
05:51
the profound importance of it.
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njezinu duboku važnost.
05:53
It is true that as human beings, we're social animals,
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Istina je da smo,
kao ljudska bića, društvene životinje,
kao ljudska bića, društvene životinje,
05:56
which means we have a need for other people
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što znači da imamo potrebu da drugi ljudi
05:58
to know what we're doing and saying and thinking,
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znaju što radimo, govorimo i mislimo
06:01
which is why we voluntarily publish
information about ourselves online.
information about ourselves online.
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i iz tog razloga dobrovoljno
objavljujemo podatke o sebi online.
objavljujemo podatke o sebi online.
06:05
But equally essential to what it means
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No jednako je važno, da bismo
06:08
to be a free and fulfilled human being
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bili slobodna i ispunjena ljudska bića,
06:11
is to have a place that we can go
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imati mjesto gdje možemo otići i
06:13
and be free of the judgmental eyes of other people.
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biti slobodni od
prosuđujućih pogleda ljudi.
prosuđujućih pogleda ljudi.
06:17
There's a reason why we seek that out,
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Postoji razlog zašto to tražimo
06:19
and our reason is that all of us —
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i taj je da svi mi —
06:22
not just terrorists and criminals, all of us —
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ne samo teroristi i kriminalci, svi mi —
06:25
have things to hide.
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imamo stvari koje želimo sakriti.
06:27
There are all sorts of things that we do and think
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Postoje najrazličitije stvari
koje radimo i o kojima razmišljamo,
koje radimo i o kojima razmišljamo,
06:30
that we're willing to tell our physician
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koje smo spremni reći svojem liječniku
06:33
or our lawyer or our psychologist or our spouse
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ili svojem odvjetniku
ili psihologu ili supružniku
ili psihologu ili supružniku
06:36
or our best friend that we would be mortified
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ili najboljem prijatelju
no koje bi nas zatravnile
no koje bi nas zatravnile
06:39
for the rest of the world to learn.
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da ih sazna ostatak svijeta.
06:41
We make judgments every single day
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Baš svakoga dana donosimo odluke o
06:43
about the kinds of things that we say and think and do
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stvarima koje kažemo, mislimo i napravimo
06:45
that we're willing to have other people know,
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koje smo spremni otkriti drugima, i
06:47
and the kinds of things that we say and think and do
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o onima koje kažemo, mislimo i napravimo
06:49
that we don't want anyone else to know about.
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i ne želimo da itko drugi za njih sazna.
06:51
People can very easily in words claim
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Ljudi će vrlo lako ustvrditi
06:55
that they don't value their privacy,
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da ne vrednuju svoju privatnost,
06:57
but their actions negate the authenticity of that belief.
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no njihova djela poriču
autentičnost tog uvjerenja.
autentičnost tog uvjerenja.
07:02
Now, there's a reason why privacy is so craved
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Postoji razlog zašto je privatnost žuđena
07:06
universally and instinctively.
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toliko univerzalno i instinktivno.
07:07
It isn't just a reflexive movement
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Nije to samo refleksivan pokret
07:09
like breathing air or drinking water.
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poput udisanja zraka ili ispijanja vode.
07:12
The reason is that when we're in a state
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Razlog je taj da u stanju
07:14
where we can be monitored,
where we can be watched,
where we can be watched,
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u kojem nas se može pratiti,
u kojem nas se može promatrati,
u kojem nas se može promatrati,
07:17
our behavior changes dramatically.
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mijenjamo svoje ponašanje drastično.
07:20
The range of behavioral options that we consider
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Raspon načina ponašanja koje primjenjujemo
07:23
when we think we're being watched
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kada mislimo da smo promatrani
07:25
severely reduce.
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ozbiljno se smanjuje.
07:27
This is just a fact of human nature
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Ovo je tek činjenica o ljudskoj prirodi
07:29
that has been recognized in social science
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koja je priznata u društvenim znanostima
07:31
and in literature and in religion
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1907
i u literaturi i u religiji
07:33
and in virtually every field of discipline.
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i doslovce u svakom području.
07:35
There are dozens of psychological studies
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Postoje brojne psihološke studije
07:38
that prove that when somebody knows
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koje dokazuju da kada netko zna
07:41
that they might be watched,
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da bi mogao biti promatran
07:42
the behavior they engage in
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njegovo ponašanje postaje
07:44
is vastly more conformist and compliant.
185
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znatno više prilagođeno i poslušno.
07:47
Human shame is a very powerful motivator,
186
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Ljudski sram je moćan motivator,
07:51
as is the desire to avoid it,
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kao i želja da ga se izbjegne,
07:54
and that's the reason why people,
188
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1499
što je razlog zašto ljudi,
07:55
when they're in a state of
being watched, make decisions
being watched, make decisions
189
463729
2239
kada su promatrani donose odluke
07:57
not that are the byproduct of their own agency
190
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3262
koje nisu rezultat njihovog djelovanja
08:01
but that are about the expectations
191
469230
2012
već odraz očekivanja koje
08:03
that others have of them
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1452
drugi imaju od njih
08:04
or the mandates of societal orthodoxy.
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4434
ili naloga društvenog pravovjerja.
08:09
This realization was exploited most powerfully
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2867
Ovu je spoznaju najmoćnije iskoristio
08:11
for pragmatic ends by the 18th-
century philosopher Jeremy Bentham,
century philosopher Jeremy Bentham,
195
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4141
u pragmatičke svrhe krajem
18. stoljeća filozof Jeremy Bentham
18. stoljeća filozof Jeremy Bentham
08:16
who set out to resolve an important problem
196
484136
2351
koji si je postavio za zadaću
riješiti važan problem
riješiti važan problem
08:18
ushered in by the industrial age,
197
486487
1802
nadošao s industrijskim dobom
08:20
where, for the first time, institutions had become
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2358
u kojemu su, po prvi puta,
institucije postale
institucije postale
08:22
so large and centralized
199
490647
1997
tako velike i centralizirane
08:24
that they were no longer able to monitor
200
492644
1828
da više nisu bile u stanju pratiti i
08:26
and therefore control each one
of their individual members,
of their individual members,
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2953
kontrolirati svakog svojeg pojedinog člana
08:29
and the solution that he devised
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497425
1881
i rješenje do kojega je došao
08:31
was an architectural design
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2203
bio je arhitektonski dizajn
08:33
originally intended to be implemented in prisons
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501509
2716
originalno zamišljen za zatvore,
08:36
that he called the panopticon,
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2319
kojega je on nazvao panoptikon,
08:38
the primary attribute of which was the construction
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2360
a primarna mu je odlika bila konstrukcija
08:40
of an enormous tower in the center of the institution
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3071
ogromnog tornja posred institucije
08:43
where whoever controlled the institution
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511975
2148
kojim je tkogod bi kontrolirao instituciju
08:46
could at any moment watch any of the inmates,
209
514123
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mogao u svakom trenutku
promatrati svakog zatvorenika
promatrati svakog zatvorenika
08:48
although they couldn't watch all of them at all times.
210
516808
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iako ih nije mogao promatrati
sve u svakome trenutku.
sve u svakome trenutku.
08:52
And crucial to this design
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520130
2055
Ključna odlika tog dizajna
08:54
was that the inmates could not actually
212
522185
1795
bila je da zatvorenici nisu mogli
08:55
see into the panopticon, into the tower,
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523980
2876
vidjeti u panopticon, u toranj,
08:58
and so they never knew
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tako da nikada nisu znali
09:00
if they were being watched or even when.
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2172
gleda li ih se ili kada.
09:02
And what made him so excited about this discovery
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3583
Ono radi čega ga je uzbudilo to otkiće
09:06
was that that would mean that the prisoners
217
534283
1873
bilo je to da su zatvorenici
09:08
would have to assume that they were being watched
218
536156
3028
morali pretpostaviti da jesu promatrani
09:11
at any given moment,
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1685
u bilo kojem trenutku,
09:12
which would be the ultimate enforcer
220
540869
1878
što bi postalo najvažnije za postizanje
09:14
for obedience and compliance.
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3678
poslušnosti i poštivanja pravila.
09:18
The 20th-century French philosopher Michel Foucault
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Francuski filozof 20. stoljeća
Michel Foucault
Michel Foucault
09:21
realized that that model could be used
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549350
1925
shvatio je da je taj model primjenjiv
09:23
not just for prisons but for every institution
224
551275
3115
ne tek u zatvorima
09:26
that seeks to control human behavior:
225
554390
1950
već u svakoj ustanovi koja želi
kontrolirati ljudsko ponašanje:
kontrolirati ljudsko ponašanje:
09:28
schools, hospitals, factories, workplaces.
226
556340
2875
u školama, bolnicama, tvornicama,
na radnim mjestima.
na radnim mjestima.
09:31
And what he said was that this mindset,
227
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2198
Rekao je da taj način razmišljanja,
09:33
this framework discovered by Bentham,
228
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2426
taj okvir kojeg je otkrio Bentham,
09:35
was the key means of societal control
229
563839
3329
predstavlja ključan način društvene kontrole
09:39
for modern, Western societies,
230
567168
2002
u modernim društvima Zapada
09:41
which no longer need
231
569170
1774
koja više nisu trebala
09:42
the overt weapons of tyranny —
232
570944
1907
otvorena oružja tiranije —
09:44
punishing or imprisoning or killing dissidents,
233
572851
2396
kažnjavanje ili zatvaranje
ili ubijanje disidenata,
ili ubijanje disidenata,
09:47
or legally compelling loyalty to a particular party —
234
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3314
ili pravno obvezivanje
na odanost određenoj stranci —
na odanost određenoj stranci —
09:50
because mass surveillance creates
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2399
jer je masovni nadzor stvorio
09:52
a prison in the mind
236
580960
2555
zatvor u umu,
09:55
that is a much more subtle
237
583515
1843
daleko suptilniji
09:57
though much more effective means
238
585358
1889
ali daleko učinkovitiji način
09:59
of fostering compliance with social norms
239
587247
3049
ostvarivanja usklađenosti
s društvenim normama
s društvenim normama
10:02
or with social orthodoxy,
240
590296
1462
ili društvenim pravovjerjem,
10:03
much more effective
241
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1562
daleko učinkovitiji
10:05
than brute force could ever be.
242
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3125
no što bi gola sila ikada mogla biti.
10:08
The most iconic work of literature about surveillance
243
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2818
Najznačajnije književno djelo o nadzoru
10:11
and privacy is the George Orwell novel "1984,"
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599263
3550
i privatnosti je roman
Georgea Orwella ''1984'',
Georgea Orwella ''1984'',
10:14
which we all learn in school, and
therefore it's almost become a cliche.
therefore it's almost become a cliche.
245
602813
3467
o kojem svi učimo u školi
te je gotovo postao kliše.
te je gotovo postao kliše.
10:18
In fact, whenever you bring it up
in a debate about surveillance,
in a debate about surveillance,
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606280
2069
Zapravo, kada god ga spomenete
u debati o nadzoru,
u debati o nadzoru,
10:20
people instantaneously dismiss it
247
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2249
ljudi ga istog trenutka odbace
10:22
as inapplicable, and what they say is,
248
610598
2302
kao neprimjenjivog, i kažu,
10:24
"Oh, well in '1984,' there were
monitors in people's homes,
monitors in people's homes,
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612900
3283
''Oh, pa u '1984-toj' ljudi su
imali monitore u kućama,
imali monitore u kućama,
10:28
they were being watched at every given moment,
250
616183
2165
bili su promatrani u kojem god trenutku,
10:30
and that has nothing to do with
the surveillance state that we face."
the surveillance state that we face."
251
618348
3962
i to nema nikakve veze s nadzirućom
državom s kojom se mi susrećemo.''
državom s kojom se mi susrećemo.''
10:34
That is an actual fundamental misapprehension
252
622310
2920
To je doista temeljito pogrešno shvaćanje
10:37
of the warnings that Orwell issued in "1984."
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2701
upozorenja koje je
Orwell dao u ''1984''-toj.
Orwell dao u ''1984''-toj.
10:39
The warning that he was issuing
254
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1651
Upozorenje koje je dao
10:41
was about a surveillance state
255
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1608
bilo je o nadzirućoj državi
10:43
not that monitored everybody at all times,
256
631190
2164
koja nije promatrala sve u svakom trenutku
10:45
but where people were aware that they could
257
633354
2053
već u kojoj su ljudi bili svjesni da mogu
10:47
be monitored at any given moment.
258
635407
1629
biti promatrani u bilo kojem trenutku.
10:49
Here is how Orwell's narrator, Winston Smith,
259
637036
3074
Evo kako Orwellov pripovjedač, Winston Smith,
10:52
described the surveillance system
260
640110
2040
opisuje nadzorni sustav
10:54
that they faced:
261
642150
1398
s kojim se suočava:
10:55
"There was, of course, no way of knowing
262
643548
2427
''Nije postojao, dakako,
nikakav način da saznaš
nikakav način da saznaš
10:57
whether you were being watched
at any given moment."
at any given moment."
263
645975
2317
promatraju li te u nekom trenutku.''
11:00
He went on to say,
264
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1451
Dalje govori,
11:01
"At any rate, they could plug in your wire
265
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1711
''U svakom slučaju, mogli su se priključiti
11:03
whenever they wanted to.
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1709
na tvoju žicu kad god su željeli
11:05
You had to live, did live,
267
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2579
Morao si živjeti, živio si,
11:07
from habit that became instinct,
268
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2253
uz naviku koja je postala instinkt,
11:09
in the assumption that every sound you made
269
657995
2495
uz pretpostavku da svaki zvuk
kojeg napraviš
kojeg napraviš
11:12
was overheard and except in darkness
270
660490
2190
načut i, osim u tami,
11:14
every movement scrutinized."
271
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2739
svaki pokret ispitan.''
11:17
The Abrahamic religions similarly posit
272
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3346
Abrahamske religije na sličan način
11:20
that there's an invisible, all-knowing authority
273
668765
2943
pretpostavljaju nevidljiv, sveznajuć autoritet
11:23
who, because of its omniscience,
274
671708
1743
koji, radi svoje svemogućnosti,
11:25
always watches whatever you're doing,
275
673451
1896
uvijek gleda što god radiš,
11:27
which means you never have a private moment,
276
675347
2773
što znači da nikada nemaš
ni trenutak privatnosti,
ni trenutak privatnosti,
11:30
the ultimate enforcer
277
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1684
i postaje krajnji primjenjivač
11:31
for obedience to its dictates.
278
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2990
poslušnosti koju zapovjeda.
11:34
What all of these seemingly disparate works
279
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3404
Ono što sva ova naizgled raznorodna djela
11:38
recognize, the conclusion that they all reach,
280
686198
2786
prepoznaju, zaključak do kojeg dolaze,
11:40
is that a society in which people
281
688984
2322
je da društvo u kojem ljudi
11:43
can be monitored at all times
282
691306
2307
mogu biti promatrani u svakom trenutku
11:45
is a society that breeds conformity
283
693613
2655
jest društvo koje potiče konformizam,
11:48
and obedience and submission,
284
696268
2242
poslušnost i podređivanje,
11:50
which is why every tyrant,
285
698510
1511
i zato svaki tiranin,
11:52
the most overt to the most subtle,
286
700021
2082
od najotvorenijeg do najsuptilnijeg,
11:54
craves that system.
287
702103
2263
žudi za tim sustavom.
11:56
Conversely, even more importantly,
288
704366
2654
S druge je strane, čak važnije,
11:59
it is a realm of privacy,
289
707020
2440
domena privatnosti,
12:01
the ability to go somewhere where we can think
290
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3010
sposobnost otići tamo gdje možemo misliti
12:04
and reason and interact and speak
291
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3158
i razlagati i imati odnose i razgovarati
12:07
without the judgmental eyes
of others being cast upon us,
of others being cast upon us,
292
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3654
bez prosuđujućih očiju drugih na nama,
12:11
in which creativity and exploration
293
719282
3543
gdje kreativnost i istraživanje
12:14
and dissent exclusively reside,
294
722825
3028
i neslaganje isključivo prebivaju,
12:17
and that is the reason why,
295
725853
1821
i iz tog razloga,
12:19
when we allow a society to exist
296
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2576
kada dopustimo postojanje društva
12:22
in which we're subject to constant monitoring,
297
730250
2163
u kojem smo podložni stalnom promatranju
12:24
we allow the essence of human freedom
298
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2977
dopuštamo da suština ljudske slobode
12:27
to be severely crippled.
299
735390
2951
bude ozbiljno obogaljena.
12:30
The last point I want to observe about this mindset,
300
738341
3122
Zadnje što želim reći
o ovome načinu razmišljanja,
o ovome načinu razmišljanja,
12:33
the idea that only people who
are doing something wrong
are doing something wrong
301
741463
1925
o ideji da jedino ljudi
koji rade nešto krivo
koji rade nešto krivo
12:35
have things to hide and therefore
reasons to care about privacy,
reasons to care about privacy,
302
743388
3882
imaju stvari za sakriti i stoga
razloga za brigu o privatnosti,
razloga za brigu o privatnosti,
12:39
is that it entrenches two very destructive messages,
303
747270
4006
je da prenosi dvije izrazito
destruktive poruke,
destruktive poruke,
12:43
two destructive lessons,
304
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2028
dvije destruktivne lekcije,
12:45
the first of which is that
305
753304
1756
od kojih je prva da su
12:47
the only people who care about privacy,
306
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2120
jedino oni ljudi koji brinu o privatnosti,
12:49
the only people who will seek out privacy,
307
757180
2056
jedino ljudi koji traže privatnost,
12:51
are by definition bad people.
308
759236
4075
po definiciji loši ljudi.
12:55
This is a conclusion that we should have
309
763311
2132
Ovaj zaključak govori da trebamo imati
12:57
all kinds of reasons for avoiding,
310
765443
2528
sve moguće razloge za izbjegavanje,
12:59
the most important of which is that when you say,
311
767971
2752
najvažniji od kojih je da kada kažeš,
13:02
"somebody who is doing bad things,"
312
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2377
''netko tko radi loše stvari'',
13:05
you probably mean things
like plotting a terrorist attack
like plotting a terrorist attack
313
773100
2837
vrlo vjerojatno misliš stvari poput
planiranja terorističkog napada
planiranja terorističkog napada
13:07
or engaging in violent criminality,
314
775937
2041
ili upuštanja u nasilna kaznena djela,
13:09
a much narrower conception
315
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2540
što je mnogo uža koncepcija
13:12
of what people who wield power mean
316
780518
2452
od one koju ljudi na pozicijama moći
13:14
when they say, "doing bad things."
317
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2050
imaju na umu kada kažu ''raditi loše stvari''.
13:17
For them, "doing bad things" typically means
318
785020
2307
Za njih, ''raditi loše stvari'' tipično znači
13:19
doing something that poses meaningful challenges
319
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3071
raditi nešto što postavlja smislen izazov
13:22
to the exercise of our own power.
320
790398
3105
prakticiranju vlastite moći.
13:25
The other really destructive
321
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1950
Druga izrazito destruktivna
13:27
and, I think, even more insidious lesson
322
795453
1908
i, smatram, još više podla lekcija
13:29
that comes from accepting this mindset
323
797361
2779
koja dolazi s prihvaćanjem
ovog načina razmišljanja
ovog načina razmišljanja
13:32
is there's an implicit bargain
324
800140
2766
je da postoji implicitna pogodba
13:34
that people who accept this mindset have accepted,
325
802906
3344
na koju pristaju ljudi koji tako razmišljaju,
13:38
and that bargain is this:
326
806250
1455
a ta je pogodba sljedeća:
13:39
If you're willing to render yourself
327
807705
1972
Ako si spreman pretvoriti sebe
13:41
sufficiently harmless,
328
809677
2102
u nekoga dostatno bezopasnog,
13:43
sufficiently unthreatening
329
811779
2170
dostatno neprijetećeg,
13:45
to those who wield political power,
330
813949
1882
za one koji imaju političku moć,
13:47
then and only then can you be free
331
815831
3036
tada i samo tada bit ćeš slobodan
13:50
of the dangers of surveillance.
332
818867
2108
od opasnosti nadziranja.
13:52
It's only those who are dissidents,
333
820975
2385
Samo oni koji su disidenti,
13:55
who challenge power,
334
823360
1481
oni koji se opiru moći,
13:56
who have something to worry about.
335
824841
1812
imaju razloga za brigu.
13:58
There are all kinds of reasons why we
should want to avoid that lesson as well.
should want to avoid that lesson as well.
336
826653
3407
Postoje brojni razlozi zašto bismo trebali
željeti izbjeći i tu lekciju.
željeti izbjeći i tu lekciju.
14:02
You may be a person who, right now,
337
830060
2238
Možda ste osoba koja, u ovom trenutku,
14:04
doesn't want to engage in that behavior,
338
832298
2072
ne želi biti uključena u takvo ponašanje,
14:06
but at some point in the future you might.
339
834370
2455
no možda ćete nekad u budućnosti željeti.
14:08
Even if you're somebody who decides
340
836825
1674
Čak i ako ste netko tko odlučuje
14:10
that you never want to,
341
838499
1765
nikada ne željeti to,
14:12
the fact that there are other people
342
840264
1634
činjenica da postoje drugi ljudi
14:13
who are willing to and able to resist
343
841898
2204
koji su voljni i spremni oduprijeti se
14:16
and be adversarial to those in power —
344
844102
2034
i protiviti onima na poziciji moći —
14:18
dissidents and journalists
345
846136
1534
disidenti i novinari
14:19
and activists and a whole range of others —
346
847670
2088
i aktivisti i cijeli niz drugih —
14:21
is something that brings us all collective good
347
849758
2494
ona je koja nam svima
donosi zajedničku dobrobit
donosi zajedničku dobrobit
14:24
that we should want to preserve.
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koju bismo trebali željeti sačuvati.
14:27
Equally critical is that the measure
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2094
Jednako kritično je da je mjera
14:29
of how free a society is
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2263
slobode našeg društva
14:31
is not how it treats its good,
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2150
ne kako se odnosi prema svojim dobrim,
14:33
obedient, compliant citizens,
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2463
poslušnim, popustljivim građanima,
14:36
but how it treats its dissidents
353
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1840
već kako se odnosi prema svojim disidentima
14:38
and those who resist orthodoxy.
354
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3115
i onima koji se opiru pravovjerju,
14:41
But the most important reason
355
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1597
No najvažniji razlog
14:42
is that a system of mass surveillance
356
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2401
jest da sustav masovnog nadzora
14:45
suppresses our own freedom in all sorts of ways.
357
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2617
potiskuje našu slobodu na brojne načine.
14:47
It renders off-limits
358
875770
1801
Stavlja izvan granica
14:49
all kinds of behavioral choices
359
877571
2006
razne odabire oblika ponašanja
14:51
without our even knowing that it's happened.
360
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3553
čak i bez da smo svjesni što se dogodilo.
14:55
The renowned socialist activist Rosa Luxemburg
361
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2482
Uvažena socijalistkinja Rosa Luxembourg
14:57
once said, "He who does not move
362
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2493
jednom je rekla, ''Onaj tko se ne kreće,
15:00
does not notice his chains."
363
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3356
ni ne primjećuje svoje lance.''
15:03
We can try and render the chains
364
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1689
Možemo pokušati pretvoriti lance
15:05
of mass surveillance invisible or undetectable,
365
893150
3089
masivnog nadzora u nešto
nevidljivo, neprimjetljivo,
nevidljivo, neprimjetljivo,
15:08
but the constraints that it imposes on us
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2666
no ograničenja koja nam postavljaju
15:10
do not become any less potent.
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2545
ne postaju time ništa manje moćna.
15:13
Thank you very much.
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Hvala vam puno.
15:15
(Applause)
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1431
(Pljesak)
15:16
Thank you.
370
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1507
Hvala vam.
15:17
(Applause)
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4897
(Pljesak)
15:22
Thank you.
372
910893
2387
Hvala.
15:25
(Applause)
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(Pljesak)
15:31
Bruno Giussani: Glenn, thank you.
374
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2292
Bruno Giussani: Glenn, hvala ti.
15:33
The case is rather convincing, I have to say,
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2289
Zvučiš vrlo uvjerljivo, moram reći,
15:35
but I want to bring you back
376
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1565
no htio bih te vratiti unatrag
15:37
to the last 16 months and to Edward Snowden
377
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3351
na zadnjih 16 mjeseci i Edwarda Snowdena
15:40
for a few questions, if you don't mind.
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2065
radi nekoliko pitanja, ako se slažeš.
15:42
The first one is personal to you.
379
930882
2488
Prvo je za tebe, osobno.
15:45
We have all read about the arrest of your partner,
380
933370
3041
Svi smo čitali o uhićenju tvoga partnera,
15:48
David Miranda in London, and other difficulties,
381
936411
3310
Davida Mirande u Londonu, i ostalim poteškoćama,
15:51
but I assume that
382
939721
2084
no pretpostavljam da,
15:53
in terms of personal engagement and risk,
383
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3356
u smislu osobnog angažmana i rizika,
15:57
that the pressure on you is not that easy
384
945161
1804
pritisak kojeg osjećaš nije lagan,
15:58
to take on the biggest sovereign
organizations in the world.
organizations in the world.
385
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2945
kada napadaš najveće
suverene organizacije svijeta.
suverene organizacije svijeta.
16:01
Tell us a little bit about that.
386
949910
2435
Reci nam nešto malo više o tome.
16:04
Glenn Greenwald: You know, I think
one of the things that happens
one of the things that happens
387
952345
1655
Glenn Greenwald: Znaš, mislim
da je jedna od stvari koja se događa
da je jedna od stvari koja se događa
16:06
is that people's courage in this regard
388
954000
1932
je da ljudska hrabrost
u ovom slučaju
u ovom slučaju
16:07
gets contagious,
389
955932
1712
postaje zarazna
16:09
and so although I and the other
journalists with whom I was working
journalists with whom I was working
390
957644
3463
i premda ja i drugi novinari
s kojima sam radio
s kojima sam radio
16:13
were certainly aware of the risk —
391
961107
1536
sigurno jesmo bili svjesni rizika —
16:14
the United States continues to be
the most powerful country in the world
the most powerful country in the world
392
962643
2722
Sjedinjene države i dalje su
najmoćnija država na svijetu
najmoćnija država na svijetu
16:17
and doesn't appreciate it when you
393
965365
1998
i ne cijene kada
16:19
disclose thousands of their secrets
394
967363
1922
otkrijete tisuće njihovih tajni
16:21
on the Internet at will —
395
969285
2511
na Internetu, svojevoljno —
16:23
seeing somebody who is a 29-year-old
396
971796
3469
vidjeti nekoga tko je 29-godišnja
16:27
ordinary person who grew up in
397
975265
2019
obična osoba odrasla
16:29
a very ordinary environment
398
977284
2313
u vrlo običnim okolnostima
16:31
exercise the degree of principled
courage that Edward Snowden risked,
courage that Edward Snowden risked,
399
979597
3723
kako prakticira stupanj principijelne
hrabrosti kakvu je riskirao Snowden,
hrabrosti kakvu je riskirao Snowden,
16:35
knowing that he was going to go
to prison for the rest of his life
to prison for the rest of his life
400
983320
2220
znajući da će otići u zatvor do kraja života
16:37
or that his life would unravel,
401
985540
1782
ili da će mu se čitav život raspasti,
16:39
inspired me and inspired other journalists
402
987322
1975
nadahnulo me i nadahnulo druge novinare
16:41
and inspired, I think, people around the world,
403
989297
1823
i nadahnulo, smatram, ljude diljem svijeta,
16:43
including future whistleblowers,
404
991120
1688
uključujući buduće zviždače,
16:44
to realize that they can engage
in that kind of behavior as well.
in that kind of behavior as well.
405
992808
3515
da shvate kako se i oni mogu uključiti
u takav oblik ponašanja.
u takav oblik ponašanja.
16:48
BG: I'm curious about your
relationship with Ed Snowden,
relationship with Ed Snowden,
406
996323
2486
BG: Zanima me kakav je tvoj odnos
s Edom Snowdenom,
s Edom Snowdenom,
16:50
because you have spoken with him a lot,
407
998809
3181
jer si mnogo razgovarao s njim,
16:53
and you certainly continue doing so,
408
1001990
1763
i sigurno nastavljaš to činiti,
16:55
but in your book, you never call him Edward,
409
1003753
2636
no u svojoj ga knjizi nikada ne nazivaš Edward,
16:58
nor Ed, you say "Snowden." How come?
410
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3460
ni Ed, već ''Snowden''. Kako to?
17:01
GG: You know, I'm sure that's something
411
1009849
1644
GG: Znaš, vjerujem da je to nešto
17:03
for a team of psychologists to examine.
(Laughter)
(Laughter)
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3331
što bi tim psihologa mogao ispitati.
(Smijeh)
(Smijeh)
17:06
I don't really know. The reason I think that,
413
1014824
3589
Ne znam zašto, zapravo. Mislim da je zato
17:10
one of the important objectives that he actually had,
414
1018413
3554
što je jedan od važnih ciljeva koje je imao,
17:13
one of his, I think, most important tactics,
415
1021967
2336
jedna od njegovih najvažnijih taktika,
17:16
was that he knew that one of the ways
416
1024303
2207
bila da je znao da će jedan od načina
17:18
to distract attention from the
substance of the revelations
substance of the revelations
417
1026510
2690
za skretanje pozornosti sa sadržaja
njegovih otkrića
njegovih otkrića
17:21
would be to try and personalize the focus on him,
418
1029200
2650
biti pokušaj da se fokus
postavi na njega osobno,
postavi na njega osobno,
17:23
and for that reason, he stayed out of the media.
419
1031850
2067
i iz tog razloga odlučio
ostati podalje od medija.
ostati podalje od medija.
17:25
He tried not to ever have his personal life
420
1033917
2509
Pokušao je izbjeći da
se njegov osobni život
se njegov osobni život
17:28
subject to examination,
421
1036426
1679
počne ispitivati
17:30
and so I think calling him Snowden
422
1038105
2714
i mislim da je zvati ga Snowden
17:32
is a way of just identifying him
as this important historical actor
as this important historical actor
423
1040819
3574
tek način na koji ga identificiram kao
važnog povijesnog dionika
važnog povijesnog dionika
17:36
rather than trying to personalize him in a way
424
1044393
1872
radije nego da ga personaliziram što bi
17:38
that might distract attention from the substance.
425
1046265
2880
moglo odvući pozornost sa sadržaja.
17:41
Moderator: So his revelations, your analysis,
426
1049145
1457
Moderator: Njegova otkrića, tvoja analiza,
17:42
the work of other journalists,
427
1050602
1776
rad drugih novinara,
17:44
have really developed the debate,
428
1052378
3000
sve je to razvilo debatu,
17:47
and many governments, for example, have reacted,
429
1055378
2128
i mnoge su vlade, primjerice, reagirale,
17:49
including in Brazil, with projects and programs
430
1057506
2604
uključujući Brazil, s projektima i programima
17:52
to reshape a little bit the design of the Internet, etc.
431
1060110
2854
namijenjenima preoblikovanju
izgleda Interneta, itd.
izgleda Interneta, itd.
17:54
There are a lot of things going on in that sense.
432
1062964
2752
Mnoge se stvari događaju u tom smjeru.
17:57
But I'm wondering, for you personally,
433
1065716
2270
No pitam se, za tebe osobno,
17:59
what is the endgame?
434
1067986
1651
što će biti kraj igre?
18:01
At what point will you think,
435
1069637
1633
U kojem ćeš trenutku pomisliti,
18:03
well, actually, we've succeeded
in moving the dial?
in moving the dial?
436
1071270
3192
pa, zapravo smo uspjeli pomaknuti kazaljku?
18:06
GG: Well, I mean, the endgame for me as a journalist
437
1074462
2278
GG: Pa, kraj igre za mene kao novinara
18:08
is very simple, which is to make sure
438
1076740
2443
je vrlo jednostavan, to je osigurati
18:11
that every single document that's newsworthy
439
1079183
2012
da svaki pojedini vijesti vrijedan dokument
18:13
and that ought to be disclosed
440
1081195
1646
koji mora biti objavljen
18:14
ends up being disclosed,
441
1082841
1480
završi objavljen,
18:16
and that secrets that should never
have been kept in the first place
have been kept in the first place
442
1084321
2037
i da tajne koje to nikada nisu trebale biti
18:18
end up uncovered.
443
1086358
1475
završe otkrivene.
18:19
To me, that's the essence of journalism
444
1087833
1847
Za mene, to je suština novinarstva
18:21
and that's what I'm committed to doing.
445
1089680
1527
i ono čemu sam posvećen.
18:23
As somebody who finds mass surveillance odious
446
1091207
2474
Kao netko kome je masovni nadzor odbojan
18:25
for all the reasons I just talked about and a lot more,
447
1093681
2187
iz svih razloga o kojima sam govorio,
i mnogih drugih,
i mnogih drugih,
18:27
I mean, I look at this as work that will never end
448
1095868
2526
mislim, smatram da moj rad neće stati
18:30
until governments around the world
449
1098394
2177
dok vlade diljem svijeta
18:32
are no longer able to subject entire populations
450
1100571
2619
više ne budu mogle podložiti čitave narode
18:35
to monitoring and surveillance
451
1103190
1486
praćenju i nadzoru
18:36
unless they convince some court or some entity
452
1104676
2589
osim ako uvjere neki sud ili entitet
18:39
that the person they've targeted
453
1107265
1722
da je osoba koju ciljaju
18:40
has actually done something wrong.
454
1108987
2591
zaista napravila nešto krivo.
18:43
To me, that's the way that
privacy can be rejuvenated.
privacy can be rejuvenated.
455
1111578
3235
Za mene, to je put kroz koji
privatnost može biti pomlađena.
privatnost može biti pomlađena.
18:46
BG: So Snowden is very,
as we've seen at TED,
as we've seen at TED,
456
1114813
2346
BG: Snowden se jako,
kako smo i vidjeli u TED-u,
kako smo i vidjeli u TED-u,
18:49
is very articulate in presenting and portraying himself
457
1117159
2768
jako izričito predstavlja
18:51
as a defender of democratic values
458
1119927
2280
kao branitelj demokratskih vrijednosti
18:54
and democratic principles.
459
1122207
1713
i demokratskih načela.
18:55
But then, many people really
find it difficult to believe
find it difficult to believe
460
1123920
3028
No mnogi ljudi nalaze teškim povjerovati
18:58
that those are his only motivations.
461
1126948
2402
da je to jedina njegova motivacija.
19:01
They find it difficult to believe
462
1129350
1478
Teško im je vjerovati
19:02
that there was no money involved,
463
1130828
1621
da nije bilo novca posrijedi,
19:04
that he didn't sell some of those secrets,
464
1132449
1911
da nije prodao neke od tih tajni,
19:06
even to China and to Russia,
465
1134360
1829
čak i Kini ili Rusiji,
19:08
which are clearly not the best friends
466
1136189
2544
koje sasvim jasno nisu najbolji prijatelji
19:10
of the United States right now.
467
1138733
2169
Sjedinjenih država u ovom trenutku.
19:12
And I'm sure many people in the room
468
1140902
1706
I siguran sam da mnogi ljudi u sobi
19:14
are wondering the same question.
469
1142608
2270
sebi postavljaju ista pitanja.
19:16
Do you consider it possible there is
470
1144878
1883
Smatraš li mogućim da postoji
19:18
that part of Snowden we've not seen yet?
471
1146761
2612
taj dio Snowdena kojeg još nismo vidjeli?
19:21
GG: No, I consider that absurd and idiotic.
472
1149373
3181
GG: Ne, smatram to apsurdnim i idiotskim.
19:24
(Laughter) If you wanted to,
473
1152554
2414
(Smijeh) Ako biste željeli,
19:26
and I know you're just playing devil's advocate,
474
1154968
2462
a znam da se igrate đavoljeg odvjetnika,
19:29
but if you wanted to sell
475
1157430
3211
no ako biste željeli prodati
19:32
secrets to another country,
476
1160641
1906
tajne drugoj zemlji,
19:34
which he could have done and become
477
1162547
1717
što je on mogao napraviti i postati
19:36
extremely rich doing so,
478
1164264
1646
iznimno bogat time,
19:37
the last thing you would
do is take those secrets
do is take those secrets
479
1165910
1981
zadnja stvar koju biste napravili je
19:39
and give them to journalists and
ask journalists to publish them,
ask journalists to publish them,
480
1167891
2744
uzeli te tajne i dali ih novinarima
19:42
because it makes those secrets worthless.
481
1170635
2026
i zamolili ih da ih objave,
jer biste ih tako učinili bezvrijednima.
jer biste ih tako učinili bezvrijednima.
19:44
People who want to enrich themselves
482
1172661
1648
Ljudi koji se žele obogatiti
19:46
do it secretly by selling
secrets to the government,
secrets to the government,
483
1174309
1970
to učine u tajnosti,
prodajući tajne izravno vladama,
prodajući tajne izravno vladama,
19:48
but I think there's one important point worth making,
484
1176279
1821
no mislim da je jedno bitno napomenuti
19:50
which is, that accusation comes from
485
1178100
2238
to da optužbe dolaze od
19:52
people in the U.S. government,
486
1180338
1832
ljudi iz vlade SAD-a,
19:54
from people in the media who are loyalists
487
1182170
2020
od ljudi u medijima koji su lojalisti
19:56
to these various governments,
488
1184190
1598
tih različitih vlada,
19:57
and I think a lot of times when people make accusations like that about other people —
489
1185788
3148
i mislim da mnogo puta kada ljudi,
iznose takve optužbe o drugim ljudima -
iznose takve optužbe o drugim ljudima -
20:00
"Oh, he can't really be doing this
490
1188936
1605
''O, on to sigurno ne radi samo
20:02
for principled reasons,
491
1190541
1665
iz principa,
20:04
he must have some corrupt, nefarious reason" —
492
1192206
2242
sigurno mora imati pokvarene,
opake razloge'' —
opake razloge'' —
20:06
they're saying a lot more about themselves
493
1194448
2107
oni kažu mnogo više o sebi samima
20:08
than they are the target of their accusations,
494
1196555
1826
nego o metama njihovih napada,
20:10
because — (Applause) —
495
1198381
4385
jer — (Pljesak) —
20:14
those people, the ones who make that accusation,
496
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2520
ti ljudi, koji iznose takve optužbe,
20:17
they themselves never act
497
1205286
1904
oni sami nikada ne djeluju
20:19
for any reason other than corrupt reasons,
498
1207190
1922
ni iz kakvih drugih doli pokvarenih razloga,
20:21
so they assume
499
1209112
1632
tako da pretpostavljaju
20:22
that everybody else is plagued by the same disease
500
1210744
2632
da su svi ostali zaraženi istom bolešću
20:25
of soullessness as they are,
501
1213376
2002
bezdušnosti kao i oni sami,
20:27
and so that's the assumption.
502
1215378
1871
tako da to postaje njihova pretpostavka.
20:29
(Applause)
503
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1627
(Pljesak)
20:30
BG: Glenn, thank you very much.
GG: Thank you very much.
GG: Thank you very much.
504
1218876
2484
BG: Glenn, hvala ti puno.
GG: Puno hvala vama.
GG: Puno hvala vama.
20:33
BG: Glenn Greenwald.
505
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2332
BG: Glenn Greenwald.
20:35
(Applause)
506
1223692
1114
(Pljesak)
ABOUT THE SPEAKER
Glenn Greenwald - JournalistGlenn Greenwald is the journalist who has done the most to expose and explain the Edward Snowden files.
Why you should listen
As one of the first journalists privy to NSA whistleblower Edward Snowden’s archives, Glenn Greenwald has a unique window into the inner workings of the NSA and Britain's GCHQ. A vocal advocate for civil liberties in the face of growing post-9/11 authoritarianism, Greenwald was a natural outlet for Snowden, who’d admired his combative writing style in Salon and elsewhere.
Since his original Guardian exposés of Snowden’s revelations, Pulitzer winner Greenwald continues to stoke public debate on surveillance and privacy both in the media, on The Intercept, and with his new book No Place to Hide -- and suggests that the there are more shocking revelations to come.
Glenn Greenwald | Speaker | TED.com