TED2008
Joshua Klein: A thought experiment on the intelligence of crows
Joshua Klein o inteligenciji vrana
Filmed:
Readability: 3.2
2,645,444 views
Haker i pisac Joshua Klein fasciniran je vranama (jeste li primijetili bljesak inteligencije u njihovim malim crnim očima?). Nakon dugog amaterskog proučavanja ponašanja vrana osmislio je elegantni mali stroj koji će možda stvoriti novu vrstu veze između životinja i ljudi.
Joshua Klein - Hacker
Joshua Klein is a fervent hacker of all things, including wet, pulpy systems like animals and people and the way they behave. Full bio
Joshua Klein is a fervent hacker of all things, including wet, pulpy systems like animals and people and the way they behave. Full bio
Double-click the English transcript below to play the video.
00:18
How many of you have seen the Alfred Hitchcock film "The Birds"?
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Koliko vas je gledalo film Alfreda Hitchcocka "Ptice"?
00:21
Any of you get really freaked out by that?
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Je li se netko od vas stvarno uplašio?
00:24
You might want to leave now.
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Možda sada želite otići.
00:26
(Laughter)
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(Smijeh)
00:27
So, this is a vending machine for crows.
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Ovo je automat za prodaju za vrane.
00:29
And over the past few days, many of you have been asking me,
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I već nekoliko dana mnogi pitaju:
00:31
"How did you come to this? How did you get started doing this?"
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"Kako si došao na ideju? Kako si započeo to raditi?"
00:34
And it started, as with many great ideas,
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A počelo je, kao i mnoge velike ideje,
00:36
or many ideas you can't get rid of anyway,
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ili ideje kojih se ne možete riješiti,
00:38
at a cocktail party.
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na koktel zabavi.
00:39
About 10 years ago, I was at a cocktail party with a friend of mine,
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Prije 10 godina bio sam na koktel zabavi s prijateljem,
00:42
and we're sitting there, and he was complaining about the crows
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sjedili smo tamo i on se žalio da mu vrane
00:44
that he had seen that were all over his yard and making a big mess.
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dolaze stalno u dvorište i prave veliki nered.
00:48
And he was telling me that really, we ought to try and eradicate these things.
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I rekao mi je da bismo morali probati istrijebiti tu vrstu.
00:50
We gotta kill them because they're making a mess.
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Sve ih moramo ubiti jer prave veliki nered.
00:52
I said that was stupid,
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Rekao sam da je to glupo,
00:53
you know, maybe we should just train them to do something useful.
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znaš, možda ih samo trebamo istrenirati da rade nešto korisno.
00:55
And he said that was impossible.
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A on je rekao da je to nemoguće.
00:58
And I'm sure I'm in good company in finding that tremendously annoying
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A ja sam jedna od osoba koja se ne može pomiriti s time –
01:01
-- when someone tells you it's impossible.
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kada netko kaže da je nešto nemoguće.
01:02
So, I spent the next 10 years reading about crows in my spare time.
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Tako sam proveo zadnjih 10 godina čitajući o vranama u svoje slobodno vrijeme.
01:06
(Laughter)
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(Smijeh)
01:09
And after 10 years of this, my wife eventually said,
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I nakon 10 godina moja žena je konačno rekla,
01:11
"Look, you know, you gotta do this thing
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"Gledaj, moraš napraviti to
01:13
you've been talking about, and build the vending machine."
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o čemu pričaš i sastaviti taj automat za prodaju."
01:15
So I did.
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Tako sam i napravio.
01:16
But part of the reason that I found this interesting
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Razlog zašto mi je to bilo zanimljivo je
01:18
is that I started noticing that we are
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dijelom to što sam
01:20
very aware of all the species that are going
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počeo primjećivati da smo poprilično svjesni svih vrsta
01:22
extinct on the planet as a result of human habitation expansion,
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koje će izumrijeti na planetu kao rezultat proširivanja ljudskog prebivališta,
01:24
and no one seems to be paying attention
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a nitko ne obraća pažnju
01:27
to all the species that are actually living -- that are surviving.
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na sve vrste koji zapravo žive – koje preživljavaju.
01:30
And I'm talking specifically about synanthropic species,
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Govorim osobito o sinantropskim vrstama,
01:33
which are species that have adapted specifically for human ecologies,
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vrstama koje su se prilagodile posebno ljudskoj ekologiji.
01:36
species like rats and cockroaches and crows.
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Vrste poput štakora, žohara i vrana.
01:40
And as I started looking at them, I was finding that they had hyper-adapted.
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Počeo sam ih promatrati. Shvatio sam da su oni hiperadaptibilni.
01:43
They'd become extremely adept at living with us.
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Postali su ekstremno adaptirani za život s nama.
01:46
And in return, we just tried to kill them all the time.
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A za uzvrat, stalno ih pokušavamo ubiti.
01:50
And in doing so, we were breeding them for parasitism.
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I čineći to pretvaramo ih u parazite.
01:52
We were giving them all sorts of reasons to adapt new ways.
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Dajemo im razne razloge da se prilagode novim načinima.
01:56
So, for example, rats are incredibly responsive breeders.
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Na primjer štakori se brzo prilagođavaju i razmnožavaju.
01:59
And cockroaches, as anyone who's tried to get rid of them knows,
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A žohari, svatko tko je pokušao riješiti ih se zna da
02:02
have become really immune to the poisons that we're using.
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brzo postanu imuni na otrove koje koristimo.
02:05
So, I thought, let's build something that's mutually beneficial.
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Zato sam pomislio, hajdemo izgraditi nešto što
02:08
Well, then let's build something that we can both benefit from,
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koristi svima i
02:10
and find some way to make a new relationship with these species.
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pronaći način da stvorimo nove odnose s tim vrstama.
02:13
And so I built the vending machine.
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Zbog toga sam napravio automat za prodaju.
02:16
But the story of the vending machine is a little more interesting
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Priča o automatu za prodaju još je zanimljivija
02:18
if you know more about crows.
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ako znate više o vranama.
02:20
It turns out that crows aren't just surviving with human beings --
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Ne samo da one preživljavaju među ljudima –
02:22
they're actually really thriving.
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one to čine jako uspješno.
02:24
They're found everywhere on the planet except for the Arctic
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Mogu se pronaći svugdje na planetu osim na Arktiku
02:26
and the southern tip of South America.
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i krajnjem sjeveru Sjeverne Amerike.
02:28
And in all that area, they're only rarely found
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I u svim tim regijama rijetko
02:31
breeding more than five kilometers away from human beings.
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kad se razmnožavaju dalje od pet kilometara od ljudi.
02:33
So we may not think about them,
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Možda ne razmišljamo o njima,
02:35
but they're always around.
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ali one su uvijek u blizini.
02:37
And not surprisingly, given the human population growth,
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I nimalo iznenađujuće je, s obzirom na rast ljudske populacije –
02:39
more than half of the human population is living in cities now.
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više od polovice ljudske populacije živi u gradovima.
02:42
And out of those, nine-tenths
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To znači da se devet desetina
02:44
of the human growth population is occurring in cities.
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rasta ljudske populacije događa u gradovima.
02:46
We're seeing a population boom with crows.
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Vidimo i populacijsku eksploziju među vranama.
02:49
So bird counts are indicating that we might be seeing
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Broj ptica pokazuje da ćemo možda
02:51
up to exponential growth in their numbers.
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vidjeti eksponencijalni rast njihova broja.
02:53
So that's no great surprise.
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To i nije neko iznenađenje.
02:56
But what was really interesting to me was to find out that
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Ali ono što mi je zapravo bilo zanimljivo je otkriće
02:58
the birds were adapting in a pretty unusual way.
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da se ptice prilagođavaju na poprilično neobične načine.
03:01
And I'll give you an example of that.
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Dat ću vam primjer toga.
03:04
So this is Betty. She's a New Caledonian crow.
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Ovo je Betty. Ona je vrana iz New Caledona.
03:07
And these crows use sticks in the wild
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Ove vrane koriste štapiće kako bi u divljini
03:09
to get insects and whatnot out of pieces of wood.
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vadile insekte i što sve ne iz dijelova drveća.
03:12
Here, she's trying to get a piece of meat out of a tube.
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Ovdje pokušava izvaditi komad mesa iz cijevi.
03:14
But the researchers had a problem.
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Tu su istraživači imali problem.
03:16
They messed up and left just a stick of wire in there.
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Pogriješili su i ostavili jedan komad žice tamo.
03:18
And she hadn't had the opportunity to do this before.
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Ona nikada nije imala priliku učiniti ovo prije.
03:21
You see, it wasn't working very well.
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Vidite, ne ide joj baš najbolje.
03:24
So she adapted.
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Zato se prilagodila.
03:26
Now this is completely unprompted. She had never seen this done before.
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Ovo je posve sama napravila. Nikada nije vidjela ovo napravljeno.
03:30
No one taught her to bend this into a hook,
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Nitko ju nije naučio da savije to u kuku,
03:32
had shown her how it could happen.
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nitko nije pokazao kako bi se to moglo dogoditi.
03:33
But she did it all on her own.
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Sve je učinila sama.
03:35
So keep in mind that she's never seen this done.
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Imajte na umu da nikada nije vidjela kako se to radi.
03:39
Right.
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Da.
03:41
(Laughter)
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(Smijeh)
03:48
Yeah. All right.
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U redu.
03:50
(Applause)
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(Pljesak)
03:53
That's the part where the researchers freak out.
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Ovo je dio kada su istraživači poludjeli.
03:56
(Laughter)
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(Smijeh)
03:58
So, it turns out we've been finding more and more
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I tako smo počeli otkrivati sve više i više
04:00
that crows are really, really intelligent.
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da su vrane stvarno, stvarno inteligentne.
04:01
Their brains are proportionate,
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Mozak im je proporcionalan,
04:02
in the same proportion as chimpanzee brains are.
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u istim proporcijama kao i čimpanzin mozak.
04:05
There are all kinds of anecdotes for different kinds of intelligence they have.
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Postoje razne anegdote za razne vrste inteligencije koje posjeduju.
04:09
For example, in Sweden,
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Na primjer, u Švedskoj
04:11
crows will wait for fishermen to drop lines through holes in the ice.
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vrane će čekati da ribar baci udicu kroz rupu u ledu.
04:13
And when the fishermen move off,
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A kada se ribar makne
04:15
the crows fly down, reel up the lines, and eat the fish or the bait.
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vrane će doletjeti dolje, izvući udicu i pojesti ribu ili mamac.
04:19
It's pretty annoying for the fishermen.
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To poprilično frustrira ribare.
04:22
On an entirely different tack,
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Na posve drugoj strani,
04:23
at University of Washington, they, a few years ago,
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u Sveučilištu Washington, prije nekoliko su godina
04:25
were doing an experiment where they captured some crows on campus.
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radili eksperiment zbog kojega su zarobili nekoliko vrana na kampusu.
04:28
Some students went out and netted some crows,
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Neki studenti uhvatili su ih u mrežu,
04:30
brought them in, and were -- weighed them, and measured them and whatnot,
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donijeli unutra i vagali, mjerili i što sve ne,
04:33
and then let them back out again.
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a zatim ih ponovno pustili van.
04:34
And were entertained to discover
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Bilo im je zanimljivo otkriti
04:35
that for the rest of the week, these crows,
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da su do kraja tjedna te vrane,
04:37
whenever these particular students walked around campus,
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kad god bi se određeni student pojavio na kampusu,
04:39
these crows would caw at them,
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graktale bi na njega,
04:41
and run around and make their life kind of miserable.
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letjele oko njega i zagorčavale im život.
04:44
They were significantly less entertained when this went on for the next week.
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Bilo je sve manje zanimljivo kada se to nastavilo sljedeći tjedan.
04:48
And the next month. And after summer break.
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I sljedeći mjesec. I nakon ljetnog raspusta.
04:52
Until they finally graduated and left campus,
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Sve dok nisu diplomirali i otišli s kampusa,
04:54
and -- glad to get away, I'm sure --
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sigurno im je bilo drago što su otišli.
04:56
came back sometime later, and found the crows still remembered them.
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Kasnije su se vratili i otkrili da ih se vrane još uvijek sjećaju.
04:59
So -- the moral being, don't piss off crows.
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Pouka je, nemojte razljutiti vrane.
05:02
So now, students at the University of Washington
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Sada studenti Sveučilišta Washington
05:06
that are studying these crows
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koji proučavaju vrane čine to
05:07
do so with a giant wig and a big mask.
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s velikim vlasuljama i maskama.
05:09
(Laughter)
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(Smijeh)
05:12
It's fairly interesting.
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Poprilično zanimljivo.
05:14
So we know that these crows are really smart,
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Znamo da su vrane stvarno pametne,
05:16
but the more I dug into this, the more I found
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ali što sam više kopao po tome,
05:18
that they actually have an even more significant adaptation.
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otkrivao sam da zapravo imaju izraženiju prilagodljivost.
05:23
Video: Crows have become highly skilled at
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Video: Vrane su postale iskusne u življenju
05:25
making a living in these new urban environments.
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u novom gradskom okruženju.
05:29
In this Japanese city, they have devised a way of
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U ovom japanskom gradu izmislili su način
05:32
eating a food that normally they can't manage:
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kako da jedu hranu koju obično ne mogu –
05:37
drop it among the traffic.
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ispuste ju u promet.
05:43
The problem now is collecting the bits,
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A sada je problem pokupiti komadiće
05:46
without getting run over.
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i ostati nepregažen.
05:48
Wait for the light to stop the traffic.
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Čekaj svjetlo da se promet zaustavi.
06:02
Then, collect your cracked nut in safety.
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Zatim pokupi svoj razbijeni orah u sigurnosti.
06:10
(Laughter)
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(Smijeh)
06:11
(Applause)
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(Pljesak)
06:12
Joshua Klein: Yeah, yeah. Pretty interesting.
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Joshua Klein: Da, da. Poprilično zanimljivo.
06:14
So what's significant about this isn't that crows are using cars to crack nuts.
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Ono što je značajno ovdje nije to da vrane koriste automobile kako bi razbile orah.
06:17
In fact, that's old hat for crows.
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Ovo je zapravo stari trik vrana.
06:19
This happened about 10 years ago
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To se dogodilo zapravo prije 10 godina
06:21
in a place called Sendai City, at a driving school
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u Sendai Cityju, u autoškoli
06:24
in the suburbs of Tokyo.
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u predgrađu Tokija.
06:26
And since that time,
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Od tada se
06:27
all of the crows in the neighborhood are picking up this behavior.
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sve vrane iz susjedstva ponašaju tako.
06:29
And now, every crow within five kilometers is standing by a sidewalk,
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Sada svaka vrana unutar pet kilometara stoji pored ceste
06:32
waiting to collect its lunch.
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i čeka da pokupi svoj ručak.
06:35
So, they're learning from each other. And research bears this out.
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Znači one uče jedna od druge. A istraživači misle sljedeće.
06:37
Parents seem to be teaching their young.
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Čini se da roditelji uče svoje mlade.
06:39
They've learned from their peers. They've learned from their enemies.
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Oni uče od svojih prijatelja i neprijatelja.
06:43
If I have a little extra time, I'll tell you about a case of crow infidelity
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Ako budem imao malo viška vremena, pričat ću vam o slučaju nevjernosti
06:46
that illustrates that nicely.
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u vrana koji to lijepo pokazuje.
06:48
The point being that they've developed cultural adaptation.
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Poanta je to da su razvili kulturološku adaptaciju.
06:51
And as we heard yesterday,
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I kao što smo čuli jučer
06:53
that's the Pandora's box that's getting human beings in trouble,
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to je Pandorina kutija koja stavlja ljude u probleme,
06:55
and we're starting to see it with them.
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i mi to počinjemo viđati među njima.
06:57
They're able to very quickly and very flexibly adapt
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Sposobne su se jako brzo i fleksibilno prilagoditi
07:00
to new challenges and new resources in their environment,
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novim izazovima i sredstvima u okruženju,
07:03
which is really useful if you live in a city.
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što je stvarno korisno ako živite u gradu.
07:06
So we know that there's lots of crows.
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Znamo da ima puno vrana.
07:08
We found out they're really smart, and we found out that they can teach each other.
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Otkrili smo da su vrlo pametne i da mogu učiti jedna od druge.
07:11
And when all this became clear to me,
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I kada sam to saznao,
07:13
I realized the only obvious thing to do is build a vending machine.
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shvatio sam kako je jedina očigledna stvar koju treba učiniti, napraviti automat za prodaju.
07:16
So that's what we did.
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To smo i učinili.
07:17
This is a vending machine for crows.
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Ovo je automat za prodaju za vrane.
07:19
And it uses Skinnerian training to shape their behavior over four stages.
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Pomoću Skinnerovog treninga oblikuje njihovo ponašanje kroz četiri stadija.
07:22
It's pretty simple.
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Poprilično je jednostavno.
07:24
Basically, what happens is that we put this out in a field,
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Ukratko, o čemu se radi jest da to postavimo vani na polje
07:27
or someplace where there's lots of crows,
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ili negdje gdje ima puno vrana,
07:29
and we put coins and peanuts all around the base of the machine.
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i stavimo novčiće i kikiriki svuda oko automata.
07:31
And crows eventually come by, and eat the peanuts
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S vremenom će vrane doći i jesti taj kikiriki
07:33
and get used to the machine being there.
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i naviknuti se da je automat tamo.
07:35
And eventually, they eat up all the peanuts.
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S vremenom će pojesti sav kikiriki.
07:37
And then they see that there are peanuts here on the feeder tray,
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Tad će primijetiti kikiriki ovdje na ploči za hranjenje
07:40
and they hop up and help themselves.
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i poslužiti se njime.
07:42
And then they leave, and the machine spits up more coins and peanuts,
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A kada odu automat će izbaciti još novčića i kikirikija,
07:44
and life is really dandy, if you're a crow.
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i život je tada jako ugodan ako ste vrana.
07:46
Then you can come back anytime and get yourself a peanut.
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Možete se vratiti bilo kada po kikiriki.
07:49
So, when they get really used to that, we move on to the crows coming back.
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A kada se naviknu na to, koncentrirat ćemo se na vrane koje se vraćaju.
07:52
Now, they're used to the sound of the machine, and they keep coming back,
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Sada su se navikle na zvuk automata i stalno se vraćaju
07:55
and digging out these peanuts from amongst the pile of coins that's there.
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i vade kikiriki iz hrpe novčića koja se nalazi tamo.
07:57
And when they get really happy about this,
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Kada postanu sretne
07:59
we go ahead and stymie them.
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zbog toga mi im otežamo.
08:01
And we move to the third stage, where we only give them a coin.
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Pomičemo se na treći stadij gdje dobivaju samo novčiće.
08:04
Now, like most of us who have gotten used to a good thing,
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Sada, kao i većina nas koji smo navikli na dobre stvari,
08:06
this really pisses them off.
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ovo ih jako iritira.
08:07
So, they do what they do in nature when they're looking for something --
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Zatim čine ono što im je u prirodi, ono što rade kada traže nešto –
08:11
they sweep things out of the way with their beak.
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kljucaju uokolo sa svojim kljunom.
08:13
And they do that here, and that knocks the coins down the slot,
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I to su učinili ovdje, srušili su novčić dolje u otvor,
08:16
and when that happens, they get a peanut.
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a kada se to dogodi, dobiju kikiriki.
08:18
And so this goes on for some time.
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I tako je to išlo neko vrijeme.
08:19
The crows learn that all they have to do is show up,
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Vrane su naučile da kada dođu,
08:21
wait for the coin to come out, put the coin in the slot, and then they get their peanut.
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trebaju pričekati da ispadne novčić, ubaciti novčić u otvor i dobit će svoj kikiriki.
08:24
And when they're really good and comfortable with that,
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A kada to savladaju i postanu jako dobre u tome,
08:26
we move to the final stage, in which they show up and nothing happens.
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pomičemo se na zadnji stadij u kojemu se kada dođu ništa ne dogodi.
08:31
And this is where we see the difference between crows and other animals.
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Ovdje možemo vidjeti razliku između vrana i drugih životinja.
08:33
Squirrels, for example, would show up, look for the peanut, go away.
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Vjeverice, na primjer, bi se pojavile, potražile kikiriki, otišle.
08:37
Come back, look for the peanut, go away.
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Vratile bi se, potražile kikiriki, otišle.
08:40
They do this maybe half a dozen times before they get bored,
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To bi učinile nekoliko puta prije nego što im dosadi
08:43
and then they go off and play in traffic.
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i otišle bi se igrati u prometu.
08:45
Crows, on the other hand, show up, and they try and figure it out.
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Vrane se, s druge strane, pojave i pokušavaju shvatiti.
08:49
They know that this machine's been messing with them,
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Znaju da se ovaj automat zeza s njima,
08:51
through three different stages of behavior.
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kroz tri stadija ponašanja.
08:53
(Laughter)
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(Smijeh)
08:54
They figure it's gotta have more to it.
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Shvatile su da mora postojati nešto više.
08:56
So, they poke at it and peck at it and whatnot.
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Zato gurkaju i kljucaju i što sve ne rade.
08:58
And eventually some crow gets a bright idea that,
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I s vremenom jedna vrana dobije odličnu ideju.
09:00
"Hey, there's lots of coins lying around from the first stage,
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"Hej, tamo uokolo na zemlji leži puno novčića
09:03
lying around on the ground," hops down, picks it up, drops it in the slot.
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još iz prvog stadija" – skoči dolje, pokupi ga i baci u otvor.
09:06
And then, we're off to the races.
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I tako postaje jedna sretna vrana.
09:08
That crow enjoys a temporary monopoly on peanuts,
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Ta vrana uživa svoj privremeni monopol nad kikirikijem
09:10
until his friends figure out how to do it, and then there we go.
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dok njezini prijatelji ne shvate kako se to radi, a zatim svi postaju sretni.
09:15
So, what's significant about this to me
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Ono što je značajno ovdje nije to
09:17
isn't that we can train crows to pick up peanuts.
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da možemo istrenirati vrane da kupe kikiriki.
09:19
Mind you, there's 216 million dollars' worth of change lost every year,
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Svake godine izgubi se 216 milijuna dolara u obliku novčića,
09:23
but I'm not sure I can depend on that ROI from crows.
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ali nisam siguran da možemo očekivati povratak tog novca od vrana.
09:27
Instead, I think we should look a little bit larger.
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Umjesto toga mislim da bismo trebali gledati s malo veće perspektive.
09:30
I think that crows can be trained to do other things.
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Mislim da se vrane mogu istrenirati da čine i druge poslove.
09:32
For example, why not train them to pick up garbage after stadium events?
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Na primjer, zašto ih ne istrenirati da kupe smeće nakon događanja na stadionima?
09:36
Or find expensive components from discarded electronics?
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Ili da pronalaze skupe materijale iz bačene elektronike?
09:38
Or maybe do search and rescue?
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Ili da tragaju za ljudima koji trebaju pomoć?
09:40
The main thing, the main point of all this for me is
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Za mene glavna stvar, glavna poanta od svih je
09:44
that we can find mutually beneficial systems for these species.
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da možemo pronaći obostrano dobar sustav za ove vrste.
09:46
We can find ways to interact with these other species
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Možemo pronaći načine da dođemo u kontakt s tim vrstama,
09:48
that doesn't involve exterminating them,
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a da to ne bude zbog istrebljenja
09:50
but involves finding an equilibrium with them that's a useful balance.
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nego pronalaženja sredine koja je korisna ravnoteža.
09:54
Thanks very much.
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Hvala vam puno.
09:56
(Applause)
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(Pljesak)
ABOUT THE SPEAKER
Joshua Klein - HackerJoshua Klein is a fervent hacker of all things, including wet, pulpy systems like animals and people and the way they behave.
Why you should listen
Joshua Klein will hack anything that moves -- his list includes "social systems, computer networks, institutions, consumer hardware and animal behavior." His latest project, though charmingly low-tech, has amazing implications for the human-animal interface.
Right now, Klein is working at Frog Design as a Principle Technologist, while developing mobile/social applications, health care-related systems and other tools that improve people's lives. He's the author of the novel Roo'd, which was the first modern book (after Tarzan) to be ported to the iPhone.
Joshua Klein | Speaker | TED.com