TEDSummit 2019
Jochen Wegner: What happened when we paired up thousands of strangers to talk politics
Jochen Wegner: Što se dogodilo kada smo uparili tisuće stranaca da razgovaraju o politici
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U proljeće 2019. godine, više od 17 tisuća Europljana iz 33 države pristalo je održati političku raspravu s potpunim strancem. Bili su dio projekta "Europa govori", koji organizira govore jedan-na-jedan među ljudima koji se ne slažu -- nešto poput Tindera za politiku. Urednik Jochen Wegner dijeli neočekivane stvari koje su se dogodile kada su se ljudi susreli da bi razgovarali -- i pokazuje kako rasprave oči u oči mogu dovesti do toga da svijet u raskolu ponovo razmisli o sebi.
Jochen Wegner - Journalist
Jochen Wegner edits Zeit Online, the website of German weekly "Die Zeit," which prizes deep dives into cultural issues. Full bio
Jochen Wegner edits Zeit Online, the website of German weekly "Die Zeit," which prizes deep dives into cultural issues. Full bio
Double-click the English transcript below to play the video.
00:12
Now, this is Joanna.
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Ovo je Joanna.
00:14
Joanna works at a university in Poland.
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Joanna radi na sveučilištu u Poljskoj.
00:18
And one Saturday morning at 3am,
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Jedne subote u 3 ujutro,
00:20
she got up, packed her rucksack
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ustala se, spakirala ruksak
00:23
and traveled more than
a thousand kilometers,
a thousand kilometers,
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i krenula na put duži od tisuću kilometara
00:26
only to have a political argument
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samo kako bi imala političku raspravu
00:28
with a stranger.
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sa strancem.
00:31
His name is Christof,
and he's a customer manager from Germany.
and he's a customer manager from Germany.
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Ovo je Christof, on je voditelj odnosa
s korisnicima iz Njemačke.
s korisnicima iz Njemačke.
00:35
And the two had never met before.
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Njih dvoje se nikada ranije nisu sreli.
00:36
They only knew that they were
totally at odds over European politics,
totally at odds over European politics,
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Jedino što su znali jest da se potpuno
razlikuju po pitanju europske politike,
razlikuju po pitanju europske politike,
00:41
over migration, or the relationship
to Russia or whatever.
to Russia or whatever.
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migracija, odnosa s Rusijom i tako dalje.
00:45
And they were arguing for almost one day.
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I proveli su gotovo cijeli
jedan dan u raspravljanju.
jedan dan u raspravljanju.
00:49
And after that, Joanna sent me
a somewhat irritating email.
a somewhat irritating email.
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Nakon toga, Joanna mi je poslala
pomalo iritirajuć email.
pomalo iritirajuć email.
00:56
"That was really cool, and I enjoyed
every single minute of it!"
every single minute of it!"
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"Ovo je bilo super i uživala
sam u svakoj minuti!"
sam u svakoj minuti!"
01:00
(Laughter)
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(Smijeh)
01:01
So these are Tom from the UK
and Nils from Germany.
and Nils from Germany.
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Ovo su Tom iz Ujedinjenog Kraljevstva
i Nils iz Njemačke.
i Nils iz Njemačke.
01:06
They also were strangers,
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I oni su bili stranci,
01:08
and they are both supporters
of their local football team,
of their local football team,
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i obojica navijaju za svoju lokalnu
nogometnu momčad,
nogometnu momčad,
01:11
as you may imagine, Borussia Dortmund
and Tottenham Hotspurs.
and Tottenham Hotspurs.
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možete pretpostaviti, Borussiju Dortmund
i Tottenham Hotspurs.
i Tottenham Hotspurs.
01:16
And so they met on the very spot
where football roots were invented,
where football roots were invented,
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Susreli su se točno na mjestu gdje su
izumljeni korijeni nogometa,
izumljeni korijeni nogometa,
01:19
on some field in Cambridge.
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na nekom igralištu u Cambridgeu.
01:22
And they didn't argue about football,
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I nisu se svađali oko nogometa,
01:24
but about Brexit.
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nego oko Brexita.
01:26
And after talking for many hours
about this contentious topic,
about this contentious topic,
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I nakon mnogo sati razgovora
o toj sadržajnoj temi,
o toj sadržajnoj temi,
01:31
they also sent a rather unexpected email.
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i oni su poslali prilično
neočekivan email.
neočekivan email.
01:35
"It was delightful, and we both
enjoyed it very much."
enjoyed it very much."
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"Bilo je sjajno i obojica smo
jako uživali u ovome."
jako uživali u ovome."
01:39
(Laughter)
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(Smijeh)
01:41
So in spring 2019,
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U proljeće 2019. godine,
01:46
more than 17,000 Europeans
from 33 countries
from 33 countries
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više od 17 tisuća Europljana iz 33 države
01:52
signed up to have a political argument.
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pristalo je održati političku raspravu.
01:55
Thousands crossed their borders to meet
a stranger with a different opinion,
a stranger with a different opinion,
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Tisuće ljudi prešlo je svoje granice da
susretnu stranca s drugačijim mišljenjem
susretnu stranca s drugačijim mišljenjem
02:00
and they were all part of a project
called "Europe Talks."
called "Europe Talks."
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i svi su bili dio
projekta "Europa govori".
projekta "Europa govori".
02:05
Now, talking about politics
amongst people with different opinions
amongst people with different opinions
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Govorenje o politici među
ljudima različitih stavova
ljudima različitih stavova
02:09
has become really difficult,
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postalo je vrlo složeno,
02:12
not only in Europe.
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ne samo u Europi.
02:14
Families are splitting,
friends no longer talk to each other.
friends no longer talk to each other.
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Obitelji se raspadaju,
prijatelji više ne pričaju.
prijatelji više ne pričaju.
02:17
We stay in our bubbles.
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Ostajemo u svojim izoliranim mjehurićima.
02:19
And these so-called filter bubbles
are amplified by social media,
are amplified by social media,
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A ti takozvani filtrirajući mjehurići
još su pojačani društvenim mrežama,
još su pojačani društvenim mrežama,
02:24
but they are not,
in the core, a digital product.
in the core, a digital product.
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ali nisu, u osnovi, digitalni proizvod.
02:28
The filter bubble has always been there.
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Filtrirajući mjehurić je oduvijek bio ovdje.
02:30
It's in our minds.
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Postoji u našim umovima.
02:32
As many studies repeatedly have shown,
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Kako su mnoge studije višestruko pokazale,
02:36
we, for example, ignore effects
that contradict our convictions.
that contradict our convictions.
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mi primjerice zanemarujemo učinke
koji se protive našim uvjerenjima.
koji se protive našim uvjerenjima.
02:42
So correcting fake news
is definitely necessary,
is definitely necessary,
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Zato je ispravljanje lažnih vijesti
zasigurno potrebno,
zasigurno potrebno,
02:46
but it's not sufficient
to get a divided society
to get a divided society
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ali nije dovoljno kako bismo postigli
da razdijeljeno društvo
da razdijeljeno društvo
02:50
to rethink itself.
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ponovo promisli o sebi.
02:52
Fortunately, according to
at least some research,
at least some research,
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Srećom, kako pokazuje
barem dio istraživanja,
barem dio istraživanja,
02:56
there may be a simple way
to get a new perspective:
to get a new perspective:
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možda postoji jednostavan način za
dobivanje svježe perspektive:
dobivanje svježe perspektive:
02:59
a personal one-on-one discussion
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osobne rasprave jedan-na-jedan,
03:02
with someone who doesn't
have your opinion.
have your opinion.
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s nekim tko je drugačijeg stava od vašeg.
03:06
It enables you to see
the world in a new way,
the world in a new way,
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To vam omogućava da vidite
svijet na nov način,
svijet na nov način,
03:10
through someone else's eyes.
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tuđim očima.
03:14
Now, I'm the editor of "ZEIT ONLINE,"
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Ja sam urednik "Zeit Onlinea",
03:18
one of the major digital
news organizations in Germany.
news organizations in Germany.
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jedne od velikih organizacija za
digitalno informiranje u Njemačkoj,
digitalno informiranje u Njemačkoj,
03:22
And we started what became "Europe Talks"
as a really modest editorial exercise.
as a really modest editorial exercise.
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i započeli smo projekt "Europa govori"
kao vrlo skromnu uredničku vježbu.
kao vrlo skromnu uredničku vježbu.
03:28
As many journalists,
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Poput mnogih novinara,
03:29
we were impressed by Trump and by Brexit,
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zaprepastio nas je Trump i Brexit,
03:33
and Germany was getting divided, too,
especially over the issue of migration.
especially over the issue of migration.
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a i Njemačka je postajala razdijeljenom,
posebno oko pitanja migracija.
posebno oko pitanja migracija.
03:38
So the arrival of more than
a million refugees in 2015 and 2016
a million refugees in 2015 and 2016
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Pa je tako dolazak više od jednog
milijuna izbjeglica 2015. i 2016. godine
milijuna izbjeglica 2015. i 2016. godine
03:43
dominated somewhat the debate.
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ponešto prevladavao raspravom.
03:46
And when we were thinking
about our own upcoming election in 2017,
about our own upcoming election in 2017,
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A kada smo razmišljali o našim
nadolazećim izborima 2017. godine,
nadolazećim izborima 2017. godine,
03:51
we definitely knew that we had to reinvent
the way we were dealing with politics.
the way we were dealing with politics.
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sa sigurnošću smo znali da trebamo ponovo
razmisliti kako se nosimo s politikom.
razmisliti kako se nosimo s politikom.
03:56
So digital nerds that we are,
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Budući da smo digitalni štreberi,
03:59
we came up with obviously
many very strange digital product ideas,
many very strange digital product ideas,
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jasno je da su nam pale na pamet brojne
očito vrlo čudne ideje za proizvode,
očito vrlo čudne ideje za proizvode,
04:06
one of them being a Tinder for politics --
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a jedna od njih bio je
Tinder za politiku --
Tinder za politiku --
04:09
(Laughter)
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(Smijeh)
04:11
a dating platform for political opposites,
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platforma za upoznavanje
političkih protivnika,
političkih protivnika,
04:16
a tool that could help get people
together with different opinions.
together with different opinions.
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alat koji bi mogao spojiti ljude
različitih stavova.
različitih stavova.
04:20
And we decided to test it
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Odlučili smo ga testirati
04:23
and launched what techies would call
a "minimum viable product."
a "minimum viable product."
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i izbacili smo ono što programeri zovu
"proizvod najmanjih zahtjeva".
"proizvod najmanjih zahtjeva".
04:27
So it was really simple.
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Znači da je bio vrlo jednostavan.
04:29
We called it "Deutschland spricht" --
"Germany Talks" --
"Germany Talks" --
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Nazvali smo ga "Njemačka govori" --
04:33
and we started with that in May 2017.
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i započeli u svibnju 2017. godine.
04:39
And it was really simple.
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Bilo je vrlo jednostavno.
04:42
We used mainly Google Forms,
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Koristili smo Google Forms,
04:45
a tool that each and every one of us here
can use to make surveys online.
can use to make surveys online.
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alat koji svatko od nas može upotrijebiti
za izradu internetskih anketa.
za izradu internetskih anketa.
04:51
And everywhere in our content,
we embedded simple questions like this:
we embedded simple questions like this:
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I posvuda u sadržaju ubacivali bismo
jednostavna pitanja poput ovoga:
jednostavna pitanja poput ovoga:
04:56
"Did Germany take in too many refugees?"
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"Je li Njemačka prihvatila
previše izbjeglica?"
previše izbjeglica?"
05:00
You click yes or no.
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Odaberete da ili ne.
05:02
We asked you more questions, like,
"Does the West treat Russia fairly?"
"Does the West treat Russia fairly?"
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Pitali smo još pitanja poput, "Odnosi li
se Zapad pravedno prema Rusiji?",
se Zapad pravedno prema Rusiji?",
05:07
or, "Should gay couples
be allowed to marry?"
be allowed to marry?"
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ili, "Treba li dozvoliti sklapanje braka
istospolnim parovima?"
istospolnim parovima?"
05:10
And if you answered all these questions,
we asked one more question:
we asked one more question:
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Ako ste odgovorili na sva pitanja, pitali
bismo još jedno pitanje:
bismo još jedno pitanje:
05:13
"Hey, would you like to meet a neighbor
who totally disagrees with you?"
who totally disagrees with you?"
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"Biste li željeli susresti susjeda koji
se u potpunosti ne slaže s vama?"
se u potpunosti ne slaže s vama?"
05:17
(Laughter)
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(Smijeh)
05:20
So this was a really simple experiment
with no budget whatsoever.
with no budget whatsoever.
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I to je bio vrlo jednostavan pokus koji
uopće nije bio financiran.
uopće nije bio financiran.
05:25
We expected some
hundred-ish people to register,
hundred-ish people to register,
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Očekivali smo da se prijavi
stotinjak ljudi,
stotinjak ljudi,
05:30
and we planned to match them
by hand, the pairs.
by hand, the pairs.
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i namjeravali smo ih upariti ručno.
05:34
And after one day,
1,000 people had registered.
1,000 people had registered.
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Nakon jednog dana prijavilo se 1000 ljudi.
05:39
And after some weeks,
12,000 Germans had signed up
12,000 Germans had signed up
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Nakon nekoliko tjedana,
12 tisuća Nijemaca se prijavilo
12 tisuća Nijemaca se prijavilo
05:44
to meet someone else
with a different opinion.
with a different opinion.
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da se susretnu s nekim suprotnog stava.
05:47
So we had a problem.
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Tako da smo imali problem.
05:48
(Laughter)
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(Smijeh)
05:50
We hacked a quick and dirty algorithm
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Izhakirali smo brz i prljav algoritam
05:53
that would find
the perfect Tinder matches,
the perfect Tinder matches,
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koji bi pronašao idealne Tinderske parove,
05:56
like people living as close as possible
having answered the questions
having answered the questions
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recimo ljudi koji stanuju što je bliže
moguće, a odgovorili su na pitanja
moguće, a odgovorili su na pitanja
06:01
as differently as possible.
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što je različitije moguće.
06:04
We introduced them via email.
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Upoznali smo ih međusobno putem emaila.
06:07
And, as you may imagine,
we had many concerns.
we had many concerns.
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I kao što možete zamisliti,
imali smo mnogo briga.
imali smo mnogo briga.
06:12
Maybe no one would show up in real life.
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Možda se u stvarnosti nitko ne pojavi.
06:16
Maybe all the discussions
in real life would be awful.
in real life would be awful.
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Možda sve rasprave
u stvarnosti budu grozne.
u stvarnosti budu grozne.
06:21
Or maybe we had an axe murderer
in our database.
in our database.
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Ili se možda pojavi ubojica sjekirom
u našoj bazi podataka.
u našoj bazi podataka.
06:24
(Laughter)
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(Smijeh)
06:26
But then, on a Sunday in June 2017,
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Ali zatim, jedne nedjelje
u lipnju 2017. godine,
u lipnju 2017. godine,
06:31
something beautiful happened.
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dogodilo se nešto divno.
06:34
Thousands of Germans met in pairs
and talked about politics peacefully.
and talked about politics peacefully.
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Tisuće Nijemaca susrelo se u parovima
i mirno su razgovarali o politici.
i mirno su razgovarali o politici.
06:40
Like Anno.
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Primjerice Anno.
06:42
He's a former policeman who's against --
or was against -- gay marriage,
or was against -- gay marriage,
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On je bivši policajac koji se protivi --
ili se protivio -- istospolnom braku,
ili se protivio -- istospolnom braku,
06:46
and Anne, she's an engineer who lives
in a domestic partnership
in a domestic partnership
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i Anne, inženjerka koja živi u partnerstvu
06:50
with another woman.
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sa ženom.
06:52
And they were talking
for hours about all the topics
for hours about all the topics
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Satima su razgovarali o svim temama
06:55
where they had different opinions.
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oko kojih se nisu slagali.
06:57
At one point, Anno told us later,
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U jednom trenutku, rekao nam je Anno,
07:00
he realized that Anne was hurt
by his statements about gay marriage,
by his statements about gay marriage,
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shvatio je da su Anne povrijedile njegove
izjave o istospolnom braku
izjave o istospolnom braku
07:06
and he started to question
his own assumptions.
his own assumptions.
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pa je počeo propitivati
svoje pretpostavke.
svoje pretpostavke.
07:09
And after talking for three hours,
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Nakon što su pričali tri sata,
07:12
Anne invited Anno to her summer party,
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Anne je pozvala Anna
na svoju ljetnu zabavu,
na svoju ljetnu zabavu,
07:15
and today, years later,
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a danas, godinama kasnije,
07:17
they still meet from time to time
and are friends.
and are friends.
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još uvijek se povremeno sastaju
i sada su prijatelji.
i sada su prijatelji.
07:21
So our algorithm matched,
for example, this court bailiff.
for example, this court bailiff.
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Naš algoritam je spojio, recimo,
ovog sudskog pratitelja.
ovog sudskog pratitelja.
07:25
He's also a spokesperson of the right-wing
populist party AfD in Germany,
populist party AfD in Germany,
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On je također glasnogovornik desničarske
populističke stranke AfD u Njemačkoj,
populističke stranke AfD u Njemačkoj,
07:31
and this counselor for pregnant women.
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a ovo je savjetnica za trudnice.
07:33
She used to be an active member
of the Green Party.
of the Green Party.
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Nekoć je bila aktivna članica
Stranke zelenih.
Stranke zelenih.
07:36
We even matched this professor
and his student.
and his student.
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Spojili smo čak i ovog profesora
s njegovim studentom.
s njegovim studentom.
07:41
(Laughter)
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(Smijeh)
07:45
It's an algorithm.
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To vam je algoritam!
07:47
(Laughter)
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(Smijeh)
07:48
We also matched a father-in-law
and his very own daughter-in-law,
and his very own daughter-in-law,
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Spojili smo i svekra sa
svojom vlastitom snahom,
svojom vlastitom snahom,
07:55
because, obviously, they live close by
but have really different opinions.
but have really different opinions.
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jer, očito, stanuju vrlo blizu
ali imaju vrlo različita stajališta.
ali imaju vrlo različita stajališta.
07:59
So as a general rule,
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Kao opće pravilo,
08:01
we did not observe, record,
document the discussions,
document the discussions,
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mi nismo promatrali, nismo snimali,
nismo dokumentirali rasprave,
nismo dokumentirali rasprave,
08:05
because we didn't want
people to perform in any way.
people to perform in any way.
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jer nismo željeli da se ljudi
ni u kojem slučaju pretvaraju.
ni u kojem slučaju pretvaraju.
08:09
But I made an exception.
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Ali napravio sam jednu iznimku.
08:11
I took part myself.
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I sȃm sam sudjelovao.
08:12
And so I met in my trendy Berlin
neighborhood called Prenzlauer Berg,
neighborhood called Prenzlauer Berg,
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U svom pomodnom dijelu Berlina,
imenom Prenzlauer Berg,
imenom Prenzlauer Berg,
08:18
I met Mirko.
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sastao sam se s Mirkom.
08:20
This is me talking to Mirko.
Mirko didn't want to be in the picture.
Mirko didn't want to be in the picture.
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Ovo sam ja dok pričam s Mirkom.
On nije želio biti na slici.
On nije želio biti na slici.
08:24
He's a young plant operator,
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On je mladi operator energetskog pogona
08:26
and he looked like
all the hipsters in our area,
all the hipsters in our area,
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i izgledao je poput svih hipstera
u našem kraju,
u našem kraju,
08:28
like with a beard and a beanie.
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imao je bradu i vunenu kapu preko glave.
08:30
We were talking for hours,
and I found him to be a wonderful person.
and I found him to be a wonderful person.
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Pričali smo satima i otkrio sam
da je on divna osoba.
da je on divna osoba.
08:36
And despite the fact that we had
really different opinions
really different opinions
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Usprkos činjenici da smo imali
vrlo različita mišljenja
vrlo različita mišljenja
08:39
about most of the topics --
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o većini tema --
08:41
maybe with the exception
of women's rights,
of women's rights,
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možda s iznimkom prava žena,
08:43
where I couldn't comprehend
his thoughts --
his thoughts --
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gdje nisam mogao pojmiti njegove misli --
08:47
it was really nice.
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bilo je doista lijepo.
08:48
After our discussion, I Googled Mirko.
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Nakon naše rasprave,
potražio sam Mirka na Googleu.
potražio sam Mirka na Googleu.
08:52
And I found out that in his teenage years,
he used to be a neo-Nazi.
he used to be a neo-Nazi.
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Otkrio sam da je kao mladić bio neonacist.
08:59
So I called him and asked,
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Nazvao sam ga i pitao,
09:01
"Hey, why didn't you tell me?"
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"Hej, zašto mi nisi to rekao?"
09:03
And he said, "You know, I didn't tell you
because I want to get over it.
because I want to get over it.
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Rekao je, "Znaš, nisam ti rekao zato
što želim to ostaviti iza sebe.
što želim to ostaviti iza sebe.
09:07
I just don't want
to talk about it anymore."
to talk about it anymore."
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Jednostavno ne želim više pričati o tome."
09:13
I thought that people with
a history like that could never change,
a history like that could never change,
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Mislio sam da ljudi s takvim pričama
nisu sposobni promijeniti se
nisu sposobni promijeniti se
09:20
and I had to rethink my assumptions,
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i morao sam ponovo razmisliti
o svojim pretpostavkama,
o svojim pretpostavkama,
09:23
as did many of the participants
who sent us thousands of emails
who sent us thousands of emails
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kao i mnogi sudionici koji su
nam slali tisuće emailova,
nam slali tisuće emailova,
09:27
and also selfies.
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kao i selfieja.
09:32
No violence was recorded whatsoever.
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Nije zabilježeno nikakvo nasilje.
09:34
(Laughter)
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(Smijeh)
09:35
And we just don't know
if some of the pairs got married.
if some of the pairs got married.
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I ni danas nam nije jasno jesu
li se neki parovi vjenčali ili nisu.
li se neki parovi vjenčali ili nisu.
09:39
(Laughter)
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(Smijeh)
09:41
But, at least, we were really excited
and wanted to do it again,
and wanted to do it again,
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Ako ništa drugo, bili smo vrlo uzbuđeni
i željeli smo to ponoviti,
i željeli smo to ponoviti,
09:46
especially in version 2.0,
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pogotovo u verziji 2.0,
09:48
wanted to expand the diversity
of the participants,
of the participants,
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gdje smo željeli proširiti
raznolikost sudionika,
raznolikost sudionika,
09:52
because obviously in the first round,
they were mainly our readers.
they were mainly our readers.
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jer, očito, u prvom krugu sudjelovali su
većinom naši čitatelji.
većinom naši čitatelji.
09:57
And so we embraced our competition
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Tako smo prigrlili svoje konkurente
09:59
and asked other media outlets to join.
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i pozvali ostale medijske
agencije da sudjeluju.
agencije da sudjeluju.
10:03
We coordinated via Slack.
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Koordinirali smo putem aplikacije Slack.
10:06
And this live collaboration
among 11 major German media houses
among 11 major German media houses
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Ova živahna suradnja među njemačkih
11 najvećih medijskih kuća
11 najvećih medijskih kuća
10:11
was definitely a first in Germany.
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zasigurno je bila prva u Njemačkoj.
10:13
The numbers more than doubled:
28,000 people applied this time.
28,000 people applied this time.
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Brojke su se više nego udvostručile:
ovog puta prijavilo se 28 tisuća ljudi.
ovog puta prijavilo se 28 tisuća ljudi.
10:19
And the German president --
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A predsjednik Njemačke --
10:21
you see him here
in the center of the picture --
in the center of the picture --
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vidite ga ovdje u sredini slike --
10:23
became our patron.
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postao nam je pokroviteljem.
10:24
And so, thousands of Germans met again
in the summer of 2018
in the summer of 2018
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I tako da se tisuće Nijemaca ponovo
susrelo u ljeto 2018. godine
susrelo u ljeto 2018. godine
10:31
to talk to someone else
with a different opinion.
with a different opinion.
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kako bi pričali s nekim
različitih stavova.
različitih stavova.
10:33
Some of the pairs we invited
to Berlin to a special event.
to Berlin to a special event.
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Neke od parova pozvali smo u
Berlin na poseban događaj.
Berlin na poseban događaj.
10:37
And there, this picture was taken,
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Ondje je snimljena ova slika,
10:39
until today my favorite symbol
for "Germany Talks."
for "Germany Talks."
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do danas moj omiljeni simbol
projekta "Njemačka govori".
projekta "Njemačka govori".
10:43
You see Henrik,
a bus driver and boxing trainer,
a bus driver and boxing trainer,
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Vidite Henrika, vozača autobusa
i trenera boksa,
i trenera boksa,
10:47
and Engelbert, the director
of a children's help center.
of a children's help center.
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i Engelberta, ravnatelja centra
za pružanje pomoći djeci.
za pružanje pomoći djeci.
10:51
They answered all of the seven questions
we asked differently.
we asked differently.
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Na svih sedam postavljenih pitanja
odgovorili su suprotno.
odgovorili su suprotno.
10:55
They had never met before this day,
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Prije tog dana nikada se nisu sreli,
10:58
and they had a really intensive discussion
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imali su vrlo intenzivnu raspravu,
11:00
and seemed to get along anyway
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ali činilo se da se unatoč tome
11:04
with each other.
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jako dobro slažu.
11:05
So this time we also wanted to know
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Ovog puta smo također htjeli znati
11:07
if the discussion would have
any impact on the participants.
any impact on the participants.
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hoće li rasprava imati ikakvog
utjecaja na sudionike.
utjecaja na sudionike.
11:13
So we asked researchers
to survey the participants.
to survey the participants.
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Zamolili smo istraživače da
ispitaju sudionike.
ispitaju sudionike.
11:17
And two-thirds of the participants said
that they learned something
that they learned something
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Dvije trećine sudionika izjavilo je
da su nešto naučili
da su nešto naučili
11:21
about their partner's attitudes.
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o stavovima svojih partnera.
11:23
Sixty percent agreed
that their viewpoints converged.
that their viewpoints converged.
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Šezdeset posto se složilo kako su se
njihova stajališta promijenila.
njihova stajališta promijenila.
11:28
The level of trust in society
seemed also higher after the event,
seemed also higher after the event,
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Činilo se i da je razina povjerenja u
društvo porasla nakon događaja,
društvo porasla nakon događaja,
11:32
according to the researchers.
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rekli su istraživači.
11:34
Ninety percent said that
they enjoyed their discussion.
they enjoyed their discussion.
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Devedeset posto izjavilo je kako su
uživali u raspravi.
uživali u raspravi.
11:37
Ten percent said they didn't
enjoy their discussion,
enjoy their discussion,
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Deset posto izjavilo je da nisu
uživali u raspravi,
uživali u raspravi,
11:40
eight percent only because,
simply, their partner didn't show up.
simply, their partner didn't show up.
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od čega osam posto jednostavno zbog toga
što se njihov partner nije pojavio.
što se njihov partner nije pojavio.
11:44
(Laughter)
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(Smijeh)
11:46
After "Germany Talks," we got approached
by many international media outlets,
by many international media outlets,
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Nakon projekta "Njemačka govori", obratile
su nam se mnoge svjetske agencije,
su nam se mnoge svjetske agencije,
11:51
and we decided this time to build
a serious and secure platform.
a serious and secure platform.
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i ovog puta odlučili smo izgraditi
ozbiljnu i sigurnu platformu.
ozbiljnu i sigurnu platformu.
11:57
We called it "My Country Talks."
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Nazvali smo je "Moja država govori".
11:59
And in this short period of time,
"My Country Talks" has already been used
"My Country Talks" has already been used
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U ovom kratkom razdoblju,
platforma je već bila iskorištena
platforma je već bila iskorištena
12:05
for more than a dozen
local and national events
local and national events
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za više od 12 lokalnih
i nacionalnih događaja,
i nacionalnih događaja,
12:07
like "Het grote gelijk" in Belgium
or "Suomi puhuu" in Finland
or "Suomi puhuu" in Finland
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poput "Het grote gelijk" u Belgiji ili
"Suomi puhuu" u Finskoj,
"Suomi puhuu" u Finskoj,
12:13
or "Britain Talks" in the UK.
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ili "Britanija govori"
u Ujedinjenom Kraljevstvu.
u Ujedinjenom Kraljevstvu.
12:15
And as I mentioned at the beginning,
we also launched "Europe Talks,"
we also launched "Europe Talks,"
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Kao što sam spomenuo na početku,
također smo pokrenuli "Europa govori"
također smo pokrenuli "Europa govori"
12:20
together with 15
international media partners,
international media partners,
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zajedno s 15 međunarodnih
medijskih partnera,
medijskih partnera,
12:23
from the "Financial Times" in the UK
to "Helsingin Sanomat" in Finland.
to "Helsingin Sanomat" in Finland.
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od "Financial Timesa" u UK-u do
"Helsingin Sanomata" u Finskoj.
"Helsingin Sanomata" u Finskoj.
12:29
Thousands of Europeans met
with a total stranger
with a total stranger
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Tisuće Europljana susrelo se
s potpunim strancem
s potpunim strancem
12:32
to argue about politics.
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kako bi raspravljali o politici.
12:34
So far, we have been approached
by more than 150 global media outlets,
by more than 150 global media outlets,
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Dosad nam se obratilo više od 150
svjetskih medijskih agencija,
svjetskih medijskih agencija,
12:40
and maybe someday there will be
something like "The World Talks,"
something like "The World Talks,"
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i možda ćemo jednog dana imati nešto
poput projekta "Svijet govori",
poput projekta "Svijet govori",
12:43
with hundreds of thousands
of participants.
of participants.
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sa stotinama tisuća sudionika.
12:45
But what matters here are not the numbers,
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Ali ovdje nisu toliko važne brojke,
12:51
obviously.
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to je očito.
12:53
What matters here is ...
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Ovdje je važno...
12:55
Whenever two people meet
to talk in person for hours
to talk in person for hours
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Kad god se dvoje ljudi sastane kako bi
satima pričali oči u oči,
satima pričali oči u oči,
12:59
without anyone else listening,
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a da ih pritom nitko drugi ne sluša,
13:03
they change.
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oni se promijene.
A tako se mijenjaju i naša društva.
13:04
And so do our societies.
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13:06
They change little by little,
discussion by discussion.
discussion by discussion.
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Mijenjaju se malo po malo,
raspravu po raspravu.
raspravu po raspravu.
13:10
What matters here is that we relearn
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Ovdje je bitno da ponovo naučimo
13:13
how to have these
face-to-face discussions,
face-to-face discussions,
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kako imati ovakve osobne rasprave,
13:16
without anyone else listening,
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kada nitko drugi ne sluša,
13:18
with a stranger.
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sa strancem.
13:19
Not only with a stranger
we are introduced to
we are introduced to
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Ne samo sa strancem kojeg smo upoznali
13:22
by a Tinder for politics,
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putem Tindera za politiku,
13:24
but also with a stranger in a pub
or in a gym or at a conference.
or in a gym or at a conference.
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nego i sa strancem u kafiću ili
u teretani ili na konferenciji.
u teretani ili na konferenciji.
13:30
So please meet someone
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Molim vas da upoznate nekoga,
13:32
and have an argument
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posvađajte se
13:33
and enjoy it very much.
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i jako uživajte pri tome.
13:35
Thank you.
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Hvala.
13:37
(Applause)
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(Pljesak)
13:40
Wow!
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Oho!
13:42
(Applause)
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(Pljesak)
ABOUT THE SPEAKER
Jochen Wegner - JournalistJochen Wegner edits Zeit Online, the website of German weekly "Die Zeit," which prizes deep dives into cultural issues.
Why you should listen
Jochen Wegner never thought he could make a living out of writing, yet ultimately he found himself editing Zeit Online, one of Germany's major media websites. With a team of 150, Zeit Online delivers around-the-clock information about breaking and developing stories, distinguished by deep reporting and data visualizations. Zeit also hosts a number of Germany's most popular podcasts.
By taking journalism beyond reporting and into the realm of real-time discussion, Wegner is creating tools that could change the political climate by encouraging wide varieties of people to engage in public discourse. His "My Country Talks" platform organizes personal, one-on-one conversations between people from all over the ideological map, inviting them to find common ground between viewpoints that are at first seemingly irreconcilable.
Jochen Wegner | Speaker | TED.com