TEDGlobal 2012
Margaret Heffernan: Dare to disagree
Margaret Heffernan: Våg å være uenig
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De fleste mennesker unngår instinktivt konflikt, men som Margaret Heffernan viser oss, er god uenighet sentralt i prosessen. Hun illustrerer (noen ganger motsatt hva som er intuitivt) hvordan de beste partnere ikke er ekkokamre -- og hvordan fantastiske forskningslag, forhold og bedrifter tillater folk å være dypt uenige.
Margaret Heffernan - Management thinker
The former CEO of five businesses, Margaret Heffernan explores the all-too-human thought patterns -- like conflict avoidance and selective blindness -- that lead organizations and managers astray. Full bio
The former CEO of five businesses, Margaret Heffernan explores the all-too-human thought patterns -- like conflict avoidance and selective blindness -- that lead organizations and managers astray. Full bio
Double-click the English transcript below to play the video.
00:16
In Oxford in the 1950s,
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I Oxford på 50-tallet,
00:18
there was a fantastic doctor, who was very unusual,
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var det en fantastisk lege, som var veldig uvanlig,
00:21
named Alice Stewart.
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som het Alice Stewart
00:23
And Alice was unusual partly because, of course,
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Og Alice var selvsagt uvanlig delvis fordi
00:27
she was a woman, which was pretty rare in the 1950s.
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hun var en kvinne, hvilket var ganske uvanlig på 50-tallet.
00:30
And she was brilliant, she was one of the,
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Og hun var genial, hun var en av de,
00:32
at the time, the youngest Fellow to be elected to the Royal College of Physicians.
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på den tiden den yngste Fellow til å bli valgt inn i Royal College of Physicians.
00:37
She was unusual too because she continued to work after she got married,
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Hun var også uvanlig fordi hun fortsatte å jobbe etter at hun giftet seg,
00:41
after she had kids,
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etter at hun fikk barn,
00:43
and even after she got divorced and was a single parent,
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og selv etter at hun ble skilt og ble en aleneforeldre,
00:46
she continued her medical work.
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fortsatte hun sitt medisinske arbeid.
00:48
And she was unusual because she was really interested in a new science,
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Og hun var uvanlig fordi hun var veldig interessert i en ny vitenskap,
00:52
the emerging field of epidemiology,
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det nye feltet epidemiologi,
00:55
the study of patterns in disease.
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studien av sykdomsmønstre.
00:58
But like every scientist, she appreciated
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Men som enhver vitenskapsmann, verdsatte hun
01:01
that to make her mark, what she needed to do
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at for å gjøre seg merket, var det hun trengte å gjøre
01:03
was find a hard problem and solve it.
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å finne et vanskelig problem, og løse det.
01:07
The hard problem that Alice chose
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Det vanskelige problem som Alice valgte
01:10
was the rising incidence of childhood cancers.
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var de økende tilfeller av barnekreft.
01:13
Most disease is correlated with poverty,
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De fleste sykdommer er relatert til fattigdom,
01:15
but in the case of childhood cancers,
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men når det gjaldt barnekreft,
01:18
the children who were dying seemed mostly to come
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virket det som om barna som døde for det meste kom
01:20
from affluent families.
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fra velstående familier.
01:23
So, what, she wanted to know,
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Så det hun ville vite var hva
01:25
could explain this anomaly?
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som kunne forklare dette avviket?
01:28
Now, Alice had trouble getting funding for her research.
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Men, Alice hadde problemer med å få midler til sin forskning.
01:30
In the end, she got just 1,000 pounds
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Til slutt fikk hun kun 1000 pund
01:32
from the Lady Tata Memorial prize.
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fra Lady Tata's minnepris.
01:35
And that meant she knew she only had one shot
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Og det betød at hun visste at hun kun hadde én sjanse
01:37
at collecting her data.
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til å samle sine data.
01:39
Now, she had no idea what to look for.
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Men hun hadde ikke peiling på hva hun burde se etter.
01:42
This really was a needle in a haystack sort of search,
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Dette var virkelig nålen-i-høystakken type forskning,
01:45
so she asked everything she could think of.
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så hun spurte om alt hun kunne tenke seg.
01:47
Had the children eaten boiled sweets?
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Hadde barna spist kokte søtsaker?
01:49
Had they consumed colored drinks?
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Hadde de drukket fargede drikker?
01:51
Did they eat fish and chips?
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Spiste de Fish and Chips?
01:53
Did they have indoor or outdoor plumbing?
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Hadde de innlagt vann eller ikke?
01:55
What time of life had they started school?
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På hvilken tid i livet startet de på skolen?
01:58
And when her carbon copied questionnaire started to come back,
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Og da hennes standard spørreundersøkelse begynte å komme tilbake,
02:02
one thing and one thing only jumped out
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var det én ting, og kun én ting, som virkelig skilte seg ut
02:05
with the statistical clarity of a kind that
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med den typen statistisk klarhet
02:07
most scientists can only dream of.
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de fleste vitenskapsmenn kun går og drømmer om.
02:10
By a rate of two to one,
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Med en ratio på to til én,
02:12
the children who had died
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hadde barnene som hadde dødd
02:14
had had mothers who had been X-rayed when pregnant.
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hatt mødre som hadde blitt røntgenfotografert mens de var gravide.
02:20
Now that finding flew in the face of conventional wisdom.
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Men dette funnet var stikk motsatt konvensjonell visdom.
02:25
Conventional wisdom held
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Ifølge konvensjonell visdom
02:27
that everything was safe up to a point, a threshold.
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var alt sikkert opp til et punkt, en terskel.
02:31
It flew in the face of conventional wisdom,
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Det var stikk motsatt konvensjonell visdom,
02:33
which was huge enthusiasm for the cool new technology
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som var en enorm entusiasme overfor den kule, nye teknologien
02:37
of that age, which was the X-ray machine.
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i den perioden, som var røntgenmaskinen.
02:40
And it flew in the face of doctors' idea of themselves,
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Og det var stikk motsatt legenes selvbilde,
02:44
which was as people who helped patients,
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som var at de var folk som hjalp pasienter,
02:48
they didn't harm them.
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ikke skadet dem.
02:51
Nevertheless, Alice Stewart rushed to publish
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Uansett, Alice Stewart skyndte seg å publisere
02:55
her preliminary findings in The Lancet in 1956.
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sitt foreløpige funn i The Lancet i 1956.
02:58
People got very excited, there was talk of the Nobel Prize,
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Folk ble veldig engasjerte, det var snakk om Nobelprisen,
03:02
and Alice really was in a big hurry
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og Alice måtte virkelig skynde seg
03:04
to try to study all the cases of childhood cancer she could find
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for å prøve å studere alle tilfellene av barnekreft hun kunne finne
03:08
before they disappeared.
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før de forsvant.
03:10
In fact, she need not have hurried.
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Faktisk trengte hun ikke skynde seg.
03:15
It was fully 25 years before the British and medical --
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Det tok hele 25 år før det britiske og medisinske --
03:19
British and American medical establishments
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britiske og amerikanske medisinske virksomheter
03:22
abandoned the practice of X-raying pregnant women.
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sluttet praksisen med å røntgenfotografere gravide kvinner.
03:28
The data was out there, it was open, it was freely available,
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Dataene var der, de var åpne, de var fritt tilgjengelige
03:33
but nobody wanted to know.
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men ingen ønsket å vite.
03:38
A child a week was dying,
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Et barn i uken døde,
03:40
but nothing changed.
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men intet forandret seg.
03:43
Openness alone can't drive change.
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Åpenhet alene kan ikke pådrive forandring.
03:49
So for 25 years Alice Stewart had a very big fight on her hands.
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Så i 25 år hadde Alice Stewart en veldig stor kamp foran seg.
03:55
So, how did she know that she was right?
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Men, hvordan visste hun at hun hadde rett?
03:58
Well, she had a fantastic model for thinking.
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Vel, hun hadde en fantastisk tenkemåte.
04:02
She worked with a statistician named George Kneale,
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Hun jobbet med en statistiker som het George Kneale,
04:04
and George was pretty much everything that Alice wasn't.
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og George var omtrent alt Alice ikke var.
04:06
So, Alice was very outgoing and sociable,
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Alice var veldig utadvendt og sosial,
04:09
and George was a recluse.
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og George var en hermitt.
04:12
Alice was very warm, very empathetic with her patients.
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Alice var veldig varm, veldig empatisk overfor sine pasienter.
04:16
George frankly preferred numbers to people.
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George foretrakk helt ærlig tall over folk.
04:20
But he said this fantastic thing about their working relationship.
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Men han sa denne fantastiske tingen om deres jobbsamarbeid.
04:24
He said, "My job is to prove Dr. Stewart wrong."
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Han sa: "Min jobb er å bevise at Dr. Stewart tar feil."
04:30
He actively sought disconfirmation.
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Han søkte aktivt avkreftelse.
04:34
Different ways of looking at her models,
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Forskjellige måter å se på hennes modeller på,
04:36
at her statistics, different ways of crunching the data
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på hennes statistikk, forskjellige måter å behandle dataene
04:39
in order to disprove her.
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for å motbevise henne.
04:42
He saw his job as creating conflict around her theories.
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Han så sin jobb som det å skape konflikt rundt hennes teorier.
04:48
Because it was only by not being able to prove
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Fordi det var kun ved ikke å kunne bevise
04:51
that she was wrong,
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at hun tok feil,
04:54
that George could give Alice the confidence she needed
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at George kunne gi Alice den selvtilliten hun trengte
04:57
to know that she was right.
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til å vite at hun hadde rett.
05:00
It's a fantastic model of collaboration --
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Det er en fantastisk samarbeidsmodell --
05:04
thinking partners who aren't echo chambers.
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tenkepartnere som ikke er ekkokamre.
05:09
I wonder how many of us have,
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Jeg lurer på hvor mange av oss som har,
05:12
or dare to have, such collaborators.
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eller våger å ha, slike samarbeidspartnere.
05:19
Alice and George were very good at conflict.
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Alice og George var veldig gode til konflikt.
05:22
They saw it as thinking.
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De så på det som tenking.
05:26
So what does that kind of constructive conflict require?
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Så hva kreves i denne typen konstruktive konflikter?
05:30
Well, first of all, it requires that we find people
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Vel, først og fremst kreves det at vi finner folk
05:33
who are very different from ourselves.
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som er veldig forskjellige fra oss selv.
05:36
That means we have to resist the neurobiological drive,
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Det betyr at vi må stå imot den neurobiologiske impulsen,
05:40
which means that we really prefer people mostly like ourselves,
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som betyr at vi egentlig foretrekker folk som er omtrent som oss selv,
05:45
and it means we have to seek out people
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og det betyr at vi må finne folk
05:47
with different backgrounds, different disciplines,
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med forskjellige bakgrunner, forskjellige fagområder,
05:49
different ways of thinking and different experience,
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forskjellige måter å tenke på og forskjellige opplevelser,
05:53
and find ways to engage with them.
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og finne måter å interagere med dem.
05:57
That requires a lot of patience and a lot of energy.
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Det krever mye tålmodighet og mye energi.
06:02
And the more I've thought about this,
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Og jo mere jeg har tenkt over dette,
06:04
the more I think, really, that that's a kind of love.
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jo mere tenker jeg at det egentlig er en type kjærlighet.
06:09
Because you simply won't commit that kind of energy
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For du vil simpelthen ikke legge i så mye energi
06:12
and time if you don't really care.
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og tid dersom du ikke bryr deg.
06:17
And it also means that we have to be prepared to change our minds.
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Og det betyr også at vi må være forberedte på å endre mening.
06:21
Alice's daughter told me
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Alice's datter fortalte meg
06:24
that every time Alice went head-to-head with a fellow scientist,
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at hver gang Alice gikk opp mot en vitenskapskollega,
06:27
they made her think and think and think again.
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fikk de henne til å tenke, og tenke, og tenke igjen.
06:31
"My mother," she said, "My mother didn't enjoy a fight,
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"Min mor," sa hun, "Min mor likte ikke å sloss,
06:35
but she was really good at them."
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men hun var veldig god til det."
06:40
So it's one thing to do that in a one-to-one relationship.
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Så det er én ting å gjøre slikt i et én-til-én forhold.
06:44
But it strikes me that the biggest problems we face,
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Men det slår meg at de største problemene vi står overfor,
06:47
many of the biggest disasters that we've experienced,
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mange av de største katastrofer vi har opplevd,
06:50
mostly haven't come from individuals,
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de fleste har ikke kommet fra individer,
06:52
they've come from organizations,
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de har kommet fra organisasjoner,
06:54
some of them bigger than countries,
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noen av dem større enn land,
06:56
many of them capable of affecting hundreds,
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mange av dem med evnen til å påvirke hundrevis,
06:58
thousands, even millions of lives.
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tusenvis, enda millioner av liv.
07:02
So how do organizations think?
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Så hvordan tenker organisasjoner?
07:07
Well, for the most part, they don't.
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Vel, for det meste gjør de ikke det.
07:11
And that isn't because they don't want to,
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Og det er ikke fordi de ikke har lyst,
07:14
it's really because they can't.
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det er egentlig fordi de ikke kan.
07:16
And they can't because the people inside of them
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Og de kan ikke fordi folkene inne i dem
07:20
are too afraid of conflict.
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er for redde for konflikt.
07:24
In surveys of European and American executives,
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I undersøkelser blant europeiske og amerikanske sjefer,
07:27
fully 85 percent of them acknowledged
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innrømte hele 85 prosent av dem
07:30
that they had issues or concerns at work
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at de hadde problemer eller bekymringer på jobben
07:33
that they were afraid to raise.
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som de var redde for å ta opp.
07:37
Afraid of the conflict that that would provoke,
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Redde for konflikten som det ville fremprovosere,
07:40
afraid to get embroiled in arguments
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redde for å bli sittende fast i diskusjoner
07:42
that they did not know how to manage,
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som de ikke visste hvordan de skulle håndtere,
07:44
and felt that they were bound to lose.
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og følte at de var dømt til å tape.
07:49
Eighty-five percent is a really big number.
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Åttifem prosent er et veldig stort tall.
07:55
It means that organizations mostly can't do
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Det betyr at organisasjoner for det meste ikke kan gjøre
07:58
what George and Alice so triumphantly did.
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hva George og Alice gjorde til så stor effekt.
08:00
They can't think together.
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De kan ikke tenke sammen.
08:05
And it means that people like many of us,
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Og det betyr at folk som mange av oss,
08:07
who have run organizations,
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som har ledet organisasjoner,
08:09
and gone out of our way to try to find the very best people we can,
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og har prøvd veldig hardt å finne de beste folkene vi kan,
08:13
mostly fail to get the best out of them.
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for det meste har feilet i å få det beste ut av dem.
08:19
So how do we develop the skills that we need?
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Så hvordan utvikler vi evnene vi trenger?
08:22
Because it does take skill and practice, too.
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For det krever faktisk evner, og også øvelse.
08:26
If we aren't going to be afraid of conflict,
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Dersom vi ikke skal være redde for konflikter,
08:30
we have to see it as thinking,
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må vi se på det som tenking,
08:32
and then we have to get really good at it.
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og så må vi bli veldig bra på det.
08:36
So, recently, I worked with an executive named Joe,
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Så nylig jobbet jeg med en sjef som het Joe,
08:41
and Joe worked for a medical device company.
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og Joe jobbet for et medisinsk utstyrsfirma.
08:44
And Joe was very worried about the device that he was working on.
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Og Joe var veldig bekymret for det utstyret han jobbet på.
08:47
He thought that it was too complicated
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Han tenkte at det var for komplisert
08:50
and he thought that its complexity
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og han tenkte at dets kompleksitet
08:52
created margins of error that could really hurt people.
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skapte feilmarginer som virkelig kunne skade folk.
08:56
He was afraid of doing damage to the patients he was trying to help.
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Han var redd for å skade pasientene han prøvde å hjelpe.
09:00
But when he looked around his organization,
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Men da han tok en titt på sin organisasjon,
09:03
nobody else seemed to be at all worried.
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virket det ikke som om noen andre var bekymret i det hele tatt.
09:07
So, he didn't really want to say anything.
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Så han hadde ikke egentlig lyst til å si noe.
09:10
After all, maybe they knew something he didn't.
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For tross alt, kanskje de visste noe han ikke visste.
09:12
Maybe he'd look stupid.
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Kanskje kom han til å se dum ut.
09:14
But he kept worrying about it,
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Men han fortsatte å bekymre seg om det,
09:17
and he worried about it so much that he got to the point
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og han bekymret seg så mye at han nådde et punkt
09:20
where he thought the only thing he could do
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hvor han tenkte at det eneste han kunne gjøre
09:22
was leave a job he loved.
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var å forlate en jobb han elsket.
09:26
In the end, Joe and I found a way
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Til slutt fant Joe og jeg en måte
09:30
for him to raise his concerns.
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for han å ta opp sine bekymringer.
09:32
And what happened then is what almost always
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Og hva som hendte da er hva som nesten altid
09:35
happens in this situation.
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skjer i denne situasjonen.
09:36
It turned out everybody had exactly the same
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Det viste seg at alle hadde presis de samme
09:39
questions and doubts.
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spørsmålene og tvilene.
09:41
So now Joe had allies. They could think together.
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Så nå hadde Joe allierte. De kunne tenke sammen.
09:45
And yes, there was a lot of conflict and debate
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Og ja, det ble mye konflikt og debatt
09:49
and argument, but that allowed everyone around the table
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og diskusjon, men det lot alle rundt bordet
09:53
to be creative, to solve the problem,
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være kreative, løse problemet,
09:57
and to change the device.
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og endre utstyret.
10:01
Joe was what a lot of people might think of
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Joe var hva mange folk kanskje ville tenkt på
10:05
as a whistle-blower,
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som en varsler,
10:07
except that like almost all whistle-blowers,
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bortsett fra at lik nesten alle varslere,
10:10
he wasn't a crank at all,
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var han ikke en urokråke i det hele tatt,
10:12
he was passionately devoted to the organization
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han var lidenskapelig dedikert organisasjonen
10:15
and the higher purposes that that organization served.
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og det høyere formål som den organisasjonen tjente.
10:19
But he had been so afraid of conflict,
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Men han hadde vært så redd for konflikt,
10:23
until finally he became more afraid of the silence.
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til han til slutt ble mer redd stillheten.
10:28
And when he dared to speak,
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Og da han våget å snakke,
10:30
he discovered much more inside himself
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oppdaget han mye mer inne i seg
10:33
and much more give in the system than he had ever imagined.
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og mye mer fleksibilitet i systemet enn han noen gang hadde forestilt seg.
10:38
And his colleagues don't think of him as a crank.
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Og kollegaene ser ikke på han som en urokråke.
10:42
They think of him as a leader.
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De ser på han som en leder.
10:47
So, how do we have these conversations more easily
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Så hvordan kan vi ha disse samtalene lettere
10:51
and more often?
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og oftere?
10:53
Well, the University of Delft
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Vel, Universitetet i Delft
10:55
requires that its PhD students
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krever at dets doktorgradsstudenter
10:57
have to submit five statements that they're prepared to defend.
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må sende inn fem uttalelser som de er forberedt til å forsvare.
11:01
It doesn't really matter what the statements are about,
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Det betyr egentlig ikke noe hva uttalelsene hander om,
11:05
what matters is that the candidates are willing and able
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hva som betyr noe er at kandidatene er villige og evner
11:08
to stand up to authority.
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å stå imot autoritet.
11:11
I think it's a fantastic system,
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Jeg syntes det er et fantastisk system,
11:13
but I think leaving it to PhD candidates
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men jeg tror at å la det være opp til doktorgradsstudentene
11:16
is far too few people, and way too late in life.
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er alt for få folk, og alt for sent i livet.
11:20
I think we need to be teaching these skills
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Jeg tror vi trenger å lære disse evnene
11:23
to kids and adults at every stage of their development,
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til barn og voksne i alle stadier av deres utvikling,
11:28
if we want to have thinking organizations
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dersom vi vil ha tenkende organisasjoner
11:30
and a thinking society.
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og et tenkende samfunn.
11:34
The fact is that most of the biggest catastrophes that we've witnessed
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Faktum er at de fleste av de største katastrofer som vi har vært vitne til
11:39
rarely come from information that is secret or hidden.
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sjeldent kommer fra informasjon som er hemmelig eller skjult.
11:46
It comes from information that is freely available and out there,
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Det kommer fra informasjon som er åpent tilgjengelig og er der,
11:50
but that we are willfully blind to,
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men som vi frivillig er blinde overfor,
11:52
because we can't handle, don't want to handle,
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fordi vi ikke kan håndtere, ikke vil håndtere,
11:55
the conflict that it provokes.
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konflikten som det fremprovoserer.
12:00
But when we dare to break that silence,
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Men når vi våger å bryte den stillheten,
12:03
or when we dare to see,
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eller når vi våger å se,
12:05
and we create conflict,
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og vi skaper konflikt,
12:08
we enable ourselves and the people around us
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gjør vi det mulig for oss selv og folkene rundt oss
12:10
to do our very best thinking.
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å gjøre vår aller beste tenking.
12:15
Open information is fantastic,
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Åpen informasjon er fantastisk,
12:18
open networks are essential.
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åpne nettverk er essensielle.
12:21
But the truth won't set us free
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Men sannheten gjør oss ikke fri
12:23
until we develop the skills and the habit and the talent
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før vi utvikler evnene og vanen og talentet
12:27
and the moral courage to use it.
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og det moralske motet til å bruke den.
12:31
Openness isn't the end.
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Åpenhet er ikke slutten.
12:35
It's the beginning.
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Det er begynnelsen.
12:37
(Applause)
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(Applaus)
ABOUT THE SPEAKER
Margaret Heffernan - Management thinkerThe former CEO of five businesses, Margaret Heffernan explores the all-too-human thought patterns -- like conflict avoidance and selective blindness -- that lead organizations and managers astray.
Why you should listen
How do organizations think? In her book Willful Blindness, Margaret Heffernan examines why businesses and the people who run them often ignore the obvious -- with consequences as dire as the global financial crisis and Fukushima Daiichi nuclear disaster.
Heffernan began her career in television production, building a track record at the BBC before going on to run the film and television producer trade association IPPA. In the US, Heffernan became a serial entrepreneur and CEO in the wild early days of web business. She now blogs for the Huffington Post and BNET.com. Her latest book, Beyond Measure, a TED Books original, explores the small steps companies can make that lead to big changes in their culture.
Margaret Heffernan | Speaker | TED.com