TED2019
Sharmeen Obaid-Chinoy: How film transforms the way we see the world
Sharmeen Obaid-Chinoy: 电影如何改变我们看世界的方式
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电影有能力改变我们看待自己和文化的方式。纪录片导演兼 TED 成员 Sharmeen Obaid-Chinoy 用它来对抗针对妇女的暴力，把她的镜头对准了巴基斯坦荣誉谋杀的传统。在一次激动人心的演讲中，她分享了她是如何将她的奥斯卡获奖影片带到一个移动影院的路上，每走访巴基斯坦各地的一个小镇和村庄就放映一次，从而改变了女性、男性和社会之间的互动的故事。
Sharmeen Obaid-Chinoy - Filmmaker
Sharmeen Obaid-Chinoy makes documentary films. She's the founder of the Citizens Archive of Pakistan, dedicated to preserving Pakistan's history. Full bio
Sharmeen Obaid-Chinoy makes documentary films. She's the founder of the Citizens Archive of Pakistan, dedicated to preserving Pakistan's history. Full bio
Double-click the English transcript below to play the video.
00:12
I'm a storyteller,
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我是个故事讲述者，
但我也是个麻烦制造者。
00:14
but I'm also a troublemaker.
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（笑声）
00:16
(Laughter)
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我有问刁钻问题的习惯。
00:17
And I have a habit
of asking difficult questions.
of asking difficult questions.
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00:21
It started when I was 10 years old,
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这个习惯从10岁就开始了，
我母亲需要抚养6个小孩，
并没有时间应付这些问题。
并没有时间应付这些问题。
00:23
and my mother, who was raising
six children, had no time for them.
six children, had no time for them.
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00:28
At 14, fed up with my increasingly
annoying questions,
annoying questions,
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在我14岁时，受够
我不断增加的烦人问题后，
我不断增加的烦人问题后，
她建议我开始为
巴基斯坦的本地英文报纸
巴基斯坦的本地英文报纸
00:33
she recommended that I begin writing
for the local English-language newspaper
for the local English-language newspaper
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撰稿，
00:38
in Pakistan,
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把问题丢给全国人民。
00:40
to put my questions out
to the entire country, she said.
to the entire country, she said.
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（笑声）
00:43
(Laughter)
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00:46
At 17, I was an undercover
investigative journalist.
investigative journalist.
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17岁时，我成了一名卧底调查记者。
00:50
I don't even think my editor knew
just how young I was
just how young I was
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当我开始点名批评
一些非常有权势的人时，
一些非常有权势的人时，
我甚至认为我的编辑
00:54
when I sent in a story
that named and shamed
that named and shamed
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并知道我还没成年。
00:58
some very powerful people.
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01:02
The men I'd written about
wanted to teach me a lesson.
wanted to teach me a lesson.
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我曾批评的人想要给我点教训。
01:06
They wanted to shame me and my family.
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他们想让我和家人蒙羞。
01:11
They spray-painted my name
and my family's name
and my family's name
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他们偷偷地把我和家人的名字
喷在家和邻里的前门上，写满了
01:14
with unspeakable profanities
across our front gate
across our front gate
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难以启齿的脏话。
01:18
and around our neighborhood.
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他们觉得这样会让我父亲，
这个严肃又传统的人
这个严肃又传统的人
01:19
And they felt that my father,
who was a strict man of tradition,
who was a strict man of tradition,
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出面阻止我。
01:24
would stop me.
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01:26
Instead, my father stood
in front of me and said,
in front of me and said,
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与之相反的是，我父亲站在我面前说，
“如果你说的是真相，我挺你，
01:29
"If you speak the truth,
I will stand with you,
I will stand with you,
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世界也会支持你。”
01:32
and so will the world."
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然后他——
01:33
And then he got --
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（鼓掌）
01:34
(Applause)
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然后他找来一群人重新粉刷了墙。
01:39
And then he got a group of people together
and they whitewashed the walls.
and they whitewashed the walls.
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（笑声）
01:43
(Laughter)
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我一直希望我的故事能让人醒悟，
01:44
I've always wanted my stories
to jolt people,
to jolt people,
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动摇他们，让他们
主动面对艰难的对话。
主动面对艰难的对话。
01:48
to shake them into having
difficult conversations.
difficult conversations.
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01:52
And I felt that I would be more effective
if I did something visual.
if I did something visual.
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我觉得如果我能做些
视觉化的东西会更有效。
视觉化的东西会更有效。
所以在21岁时，我开始做纪录片导演，
01:57
And so at 21, I became
a documentary filmmaker,
a documentary filmmaker,
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我把镜头对准了
02:00
turning my camera
onto marginalized communities
onto marginalized communities
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战争前线的边缘社区，
02:04
on the front lines in war zones,
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最终拉回到巴基斯坦国内，
02:06
eventually returning home to Pakistan,
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我想在这里记录针对女性的暴力。
02:10
where I wanted to document
violence against women.
violence against women.
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02:14
Pakistan is home to 200 million people.
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巴基斯坦有2亿人口。
由于文盲很多，
02:17
And with its low levels of literacy,
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采用电影的形式可以有效的
改变人们看待事情的方式。
改变人们看待事情的方式。
02:20
film can change the way
people perceive issues.
people perceive issues.
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02:26
An effective storyteller
speaks to our emotions,
speaks to our emotions,
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一个有效的讲述者
会和我们的情感对话，
会和我们的情感对话，
02:30
elicits empathy and compassion,
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激发我们的同理心和同情心，
并迫使我们以不同的方式看待事物。
02:33
and forces us to look
at things differently.
at things differently.
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在我的国家，电影的
潜在作用会超越电影院。
潜在作用会超越电影院。
02:37
In my country, film had the potential
to go beyond cinema.
to go beyond cinema.
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它可以改变生活。
02:42
It could change lives.
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02:45
The issues that I've always
wanted to raise --
wanted to raise --
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我一直想提出的问题——
我总是想给社会立一面镜子——
02:49
I've always wanted to hold up
a mirror to society --
a mirror to society --
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它们被我愤怒的晴雨表驱动。
02:51
they've been driven
by my barometer of anger.
by my barometer of anger.
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2014年，我愤怒的晴雨表
将我引向了荣誉谋杀。
将我引向了荣誉谋杀。
02:55
And my barometer of anger
led me, in 2014, to honor killings.
led me, in 2014, to honor killings.
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03:01
Honor killings take place
in many parts of the world,
in many parts of the world,
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荣誉谋杀发生在世界的很多地方，
那些地方的男人会惩罚违反
他们制定的规矩的女人：
他们制定的规矩的女人：
03:04
where men punish women
who transgress rules made by them:
who transgress rules made by them:
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按自己意愿自由结婚的女人；
03:09
women who choose
to marry on their own free will;
to marry on their own free will;
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或者想要离婚的女人；
03:12
or women who are looking for a divorce;
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或者被怀疑有不当关系的女人。
03:15
or women who are suspected
of having illicit relationships.
of having illicit relationships.
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03:20
In the rest of the world, honor killings
would be known as murder.
would be known as murder.
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而在世界其他地方，
荣誉谋杀会被视作谋杀。
荣誉谋杀会被视作谋杀。
03:27
I always wanted to tell that story
from the perspective of a survivor.
from the perspective of a survivor.
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我一直想从一个幸存者的
角度来讲述这个故事。
角度来讲述这个故事。
03:33
But women do not live to tell their tale
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但女人往往活不到讲述她们的故事，
而是会早早死在无名的坟墓里。
03:37
and instead end up in unmarked graves.
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有天早晨，我在读报纸的时候
03:40
So one morning when
I was reading the newspaper,
I was reading the newspaper,
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读到一个年轻女子，
因为选择按照自己的意愿嫁人，
因为选择按照自己的意愿嫁人，
03:43
and I read that a young woman
had miraculously survived
had miraculously survived
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被她的父亲和叔叔开枪
03:47
after being shot in the face
by her father and her uncle
by her father and her uncle
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击中脸部后奇迹般地活了下来。
03:50
because she chose to marry a man
out of her free will,
out of her free will,
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我知道我找到了我的故事讲述人。
03:54
I knew I had found my storyteller.
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03:58
Saba was determined to send
her father and her uncle to jail,
her father and her uncle to jail,
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萨巴决心把她的父亲
和叔叔送进监狱，
和叔叔送进监狱，
但在出院后的几天里，
04:02
but in the days after
leaving the hospital,
leaving the hospital,
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要求她宽恕的呼声越来越大。
04:05
pressure mounted on her to forgive.
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法律有一个漏洞，
04:08
You see, there was a loophole in the law
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04:10
that allowed for victims
to forgive perpetrators,
to forgive perpetrators,
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要求受害者原谅施暴者，
使他们免受牢狱之灾。
04:14
enabling them to avoid jail time.
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04:17
And she was told
that she would be ostracized
that she would be ostracized
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她被告知她将被孤立，
她的家人，她的姻亲，
04:20
and her family, her in-laws,
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都将被社会放逐，
04:23
they would all be shunned
from the community,
from the community,
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因为很多人认为鉴于她的过错，
04:25
because many felt that her father
had been well within his right,
had been well within his right,
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他父亲有权这样做。
04:29
given her transgression.
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04:32
She fought on --
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她继续战斗——
04:35
for months.
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持续了几个月。
但在法庭上的最后一天，
04:36
But on the final day in court,
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她发表了原谅他们的声明。
04:39
she gave a statement forgiving them.
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04:44
As filmmakers, we were devastated,
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作为电影人，我们深受打击，
因为这不是我们打算要拍的电影。
04:46
because this was not the film
that we had set out to make.
that we had set out to make.
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04:50
In hindsight, had she pressed charges,
fought the case and won,
fought the case and won,
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事后看来，如果她提起诉讼、
打赢官司并胜诉的话，
打赢官司并胜诉的话，
她的情况可能是个例外。
04:55
hers would have been an exception.
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04:58
When such a strong woman is silenced,
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当如此坚强的女性都被迫保持沉默，
其他女性还有什么机会？
05:01
what chance did other women have?
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05:05
And we began to think about using our film
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我们开始考虑用我们的电影
来改变人们对荣誉谋杀的看法，
05:07
to change the way people
perceived honor killings,
perceived honor killings,
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05:12
to impact the loophole in the law.
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去影响法律的漏洞。
05:15
And then our film was nominated
for an Academy Award,
for an Academy Award,
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然后我们的电影获得了奥斯卡提名，
荣耀谋杀成为头条新闻，
05:18
and honor killings became headline news,
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总理在表示祝贺的同时，
05:22
and the prime minister,
while sending his congratulations,
while sending his congratulations,
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主动提出在他的办公室
主持这部电影的首映式。
主持这部电影的首映式。
05:26
offered to host the first screening
of the film at his office.
of the film at his office.
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当然，我们抓住了这个机会。
05:30
Of course, we jumped at the chance,
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因为这个国家的历史上
还没有总理这样做过。
还没有总理这样做过。
05:31
because no prime minister in the history
of the country had ever done so.
of the country had ever done so.
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05:36
And at the screening,
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首映是通过
国家电视台直播，
05:37
which was carried live
on national television,
on national television,
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他的话引起了全国反响：
05:40
he said something that reverberated
throughout the country:
throughout the country:
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“荣誉谋杀没有荣誉可言。”
05:44
"There is no honor
in honor killings," he said.
in honor killings," he said.
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（鼓掌）
05:48
(Applause)
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05:55
At the Academy Awards in LA,
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在洛杉矶举行的奥斯卡颁奖典礼上，
许多权威人士对我们不屑一顾，
05:59
many of the pundits had written us off,
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但我们认为为了推动立法，
06:01
but we felt that in order
for the legislative push to continue,
for the legislative push to continue,
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我们需要这个胜利。
06:05
we needed that win.
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06:07
And then, my name was announced,
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然后，我的名字被念到了，
我穿着人字拖跳上台阶，
因为我没想到会出现在台上。
因为我没想到会出现在台上。
06:10
and I bounded up the steps in flip-flops,
because I didn't expect to be onstage.
because I didn't expect to be onstage.
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（笑声）
06:14
(Laughter)
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我接受了这座雕像，告诉10亿观众
06:16
And I accepted the statue,
telling a billion people watching
telling a billion people watching
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06:20
that the prime minister of Pakistan
had pledged to change the law,
had pledged to change the law,
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巴基斯坦总理曾承诺修改法律，
因为这当然是追究
总理责任的一种方式。
总理责任的一种方式。
06:24
because, of course, that's one way
of holding the prime minister accountable.
of holding the prime minister accountable.
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（笑声）
06:27
(Laughter)
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于是——
06:29
And --
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（鼓掌）
06:30
(Applause)
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06:35
Back home, the Oscar win
dominated headline news,
dominated headline news,
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在国内，奥斯卡获奖
占据了国内头条新闻，
占据了国内头条新闻，
越来越多的人加入了这场争论，
06:40
and more people joined the fray,
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要求填补法律漏洞。
06:42
asking for the loophole
in the law to be closed.
in the law to be closed.
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06:46
And then in October 2016,
after months of campaigning,
after months of campaigning,
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然后在2016年10月，数个月的活动后，
法律漏洞真的被堵住了。
06:50
the loophole was indeed closed.
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06:53
(Applause)
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（鼓掌）
现在那些以荣誉谋杀为借口
杀害女性的人
杀害女性的人
06:57
And now men who kill women
in the name of honor
in the name of honor
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将被终生监禁。
07:00
receive life imprisonment.
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07:03
(Applause)
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（鼓掌）
然而次日，
07:08
Yet, the very next day,
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一个女性被荣誉谋杀，
07:11
a woman was killed in the name of honor,
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然后是一个又一个。
07:13
and then another and another.
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07:17
We had impacted legislation,
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我们影响了立法，
07:20
but that wasn't enough.
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但这还不够。
07:22
We needed to take the film
and its message to the heartland,
and its message to the heartland,
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我们需要把这部电影和它所
传达的信息带到中心地带，
传达的信息带到中心地带，
带到全国各地的小城镇和村庄。
07:27
to small towns and villages
across the country.
across the country.
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07:31
You see, for me, cinema can play
a very positive role
a very positive role
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对我而言，电影在改变
和塑造社会的方面
和塑造社会的方面
可以起到非常正面的作用。
07:37
in changing and molding society
in a positive direction.
in a positive direction.
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07:43
But how would we get to these places?
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但我们应该如何到达这些地方？
我们如何到达这些小城镇和村庄？
07:47
How would we get to
these small towns and villages?
these small towns and villages?
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07:52
We built a mobile cinema,
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我们创造了一个移动电影院，
一辆将穿过这个国家各个角落，
07:54
a truck that would roll through
the length and breadth of the country,
the length and breadth of the country,
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停在各个小城镇和村庄的卡车。
07:59
that would stop
in small towns and villages.
in small towns and villages.
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08:03
We outfitted it with a large screen
that would light up the night sky,
that would light up the night sky,
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我们为它配备了一个可以
照亮夜空的大屏幕，
照亮夜空的大屏幕，
我们称之为“带着爱去看。”
08:07
and we called it "Look But With Love."
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它为社区提供了一个在夜晚
08:10
It would give the community
an opportunity to come together
an opportunity to come together
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一起看电影的机会。
08:13
and watch films in the evening.
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我知道移动电影院可以
吸引男性和孩子们。
吸引男性和孩子们。
08:15
We knew we could attract men and children
in the mobile cinema.
in the mobile cinema.
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他们会出来观看。
08:20
They would come out and watch.
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那么女性呢？
08:22
But what about women?
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在这些被隔离的农村小社区，
08:23
In these small, rural communities
that are segregated,
that are segregated,
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我们如何让女性走出家门？
08:27
how would we get women to come out?
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为了做到这一点，我们必须
依照盛行的文化规范，
依照盛行的文化规范，
08:29
We had to work with prevailing
cultural norms in order to do so,
cultural norms in order to do so,
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所以我们在电影院里
又设立了一个电影院，
又设立了一个电影院，
08:33
and so we built a cinema
inside the cinema,
inside the cinema,
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为它配备了座椅和屏幕，
女性可以在无需害怕，
女性可以在无需害怕，
08:36
outfitting it with seats and a screen
where women could go inside and watch
where women could go inside and watch
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尴尬，
08:40
without fearing
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或被骚扰的情况下，
08:42
or being embarrassed
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进去观看。
08:43
or harassment.
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08:46
We began to introduce everyone
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我们开始向大家介绍一些
开阔眼界，让他们接受
不同世界观的电影，
不同世界观的电影，
08:49
to films that opened up their minds
to competing worldviews,
to competing worldviews,
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鼓励孩子们培养批判性思维，
08:54
encouraging children
to build critical thinking
to build critical thinking
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这样他们就能问问题。
08:57
so that they could ask questions.
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08:59
And we expanded our scope
beyond honor killings,
beyond honor killings,
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我们也将主题范围覆盖到荣誉谋杀之外，
谈论收入不平等，
09:03
talking about income inequality,
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环境问题，
09:06
the environment,
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谈论种族关系，宗教宽容和同情心。
09:07
talking about ethnic relations,
religious tolerance and compassion.
religious tolerance and compassion.
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在里面，针对女性，
09:12
And inside, for women,
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我们播放那些女性是英雄，
而非牺牲品的电影，
而非牺牲品的电影，
09:14
we showed them films
in which they were heroes, not victims,
in which they were heroes, not victims,
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我们告诉她们如何浏览
法庭系统，警务系统，
法庭系统，警务系统，
09:17
and we told them how they could navigate
the court system, the police system,
the court system, the police system,
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让她们了解自己的权利，
09:21
educating them about their rights,
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告诉她们，如果她们是
家庭暴力的受害者，
家庭暴力的受害者，
09:23
telling them where they could seek refuge
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可以到哪里寻求庇护，
09:25
if they were victims of domestic violence,
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可以去哪里寻求帮助。
09:29
where they could go and get help.
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09:32
We were surprised that we were
welcomed in so many of the places
welcomed in so many of the places
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我们非常惊讶于在所到之处都受到了
当地民众的欢迎。
09:36
that we went to.
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09:40
Many of the towns had never seen
television or social media,
television or social media,
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很多城镇从来没有见过电视或社交媒体，
他们非常渴望他们的孩子能够学习。
09:44
and they were eager
for their children to learn.
for their children to learn.
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但对我们所带去的想法
09:47
But there was also pushback and blowback
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也存在一些阻力和反作用。
09:49
with the ideas that
we were bringing with us.
we were bringing with us.
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09:53
Two members of our mobile
cinema team resigned
cinema team resigned
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因为部分村民的威胁，
我们移动电影院的
我们移动电影院的
两个成员辞职了。
09:57
because of threats from villages.
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10:00
And in one of the villages
that we were screening in,
that we were screening in,
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有一个村庄还关闭了
我们的移动电影院，
10:02
they shut it down
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并且说他们不想女性知道她们的权利。
10:04
and said they didn't want the women
to know about their rights.
to know about their rights.
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但另一方面，在另一个村庄，
当移动电影院被关闭时，
当移动电影院被关闭时，
10:07
But on the flip side, in another village
when a screening was shut down,
when a screening was shut down,
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一个便衣警察站了起来，
命令将它重新启动，
命令将它重新启动，
10:11
a plainclothes policeman got up
and ordered it back on,
and ordered it back on,
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并站在一旁保护我们的团队。
10:15
and stood by, protecting our team,
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他告诉每个人，他的责任
是让年轻人的思想
是让年轻人的思想
10:17
telling everyone that it was his duty
to expose the young minds
to expose the young minds
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接触另一种世界观和其中的内容。
10:21
to an alternative worldview
and to this content.
and to this content.
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10:25
He was an ordinary hero.
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他是个普通的英雄。
但我们在旅途中遇到了
很多这样的英雄。
很多这样的英雄。
10:26
But we've come across
so many of these heroes on our journey.
so many of these heroes on our journey.
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10:31
In another town, where the men said
that only they could watch
that only they could watch
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在另一个城镇，那里的
男人说只有他们才能看电影，
男人说只有他们才能看电影，
女人只能呆在家里时，
10:34
and the women had to stay home,
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社区的一位长老站了起来，
10:36
a community elder got up,
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把一堆人聚在一起开展了讨论，
10:38
got a group of people together,
had a discussion,
had a discussion,
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然后男人和女人都坐下来
一起看了电影。
一起看了电影。
10:41
and then both men and women
sat down to watch together.
sat down to watch together.
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10:47
We are documenting what we are doing.
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我们记录下了我们正在做的事情。
10:50
We talk to people.
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我们跟人们交谈。
我们不断调整策略。
10:52
We adapt.
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我们改变了放映列表。
10:53
We change the lineup of films.
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10:56
When we show men films
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我们给男人们看
监狱里的暴力犯罪者的故事，
10:59
that show perpetrators
of violence behind bars,
of violence behind bars,
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我们想让人们明白，如果男人使用暴力，
11:02
we want to hit home the fact
that if men are violent,
that if men are violent,
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就会产生不良后果。
11:05
there will be repercussions.
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11:07
But we also show films where men
are seen as championing women,
are seen as championing women,
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但我们也放映被视为
女性拥护者的男人的电影，
女性拥护者的男人的电影，
因为我们想鼓励他们承担这样的角色。
11:13
because we want to encourage them
to take on those roles.
to take on those roles.
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11:18
For women, when we show them films
in which they are heads of state
in which they are heads of state
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对于女性，我们给她们放映
那些女性是国家领导，
那些女性是国家领导，
或者女性是律师，医生
和领导岗位的电影，
和领导岗位的电影，
11:22
or where they are lawyers
and doctors and in leadership positions,
and doctors and in leadership positions,
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我们跟她们交谈并鼓励
她们进入这些角色。
她们进入这些角色。
11:26
we talk to them and encourage them
to step into those roles.
to step into those roles.
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11:30
We are changing the way
people in these villages interact,
people in these villages interact,
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我们改变了这些村庄里的
人们互动的方式，
人们互动的方式，
我们把我们的经验应用到了其他地方。
11:35
and we're taking our learnings
into other places.
into other places.
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最近，一群人联系我们，
希望把我们的移动电影院
希望把我们的移动电影院
11:38
Recently, a group contacted us
and wants to take our mobile cinema
and wants to take our mobile cinema
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带到孟加拉国和叙利亚，
11:43
to Bangladesh and Syria,
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我们正在与他们分享我们的经验。
11:44
and we're sharing our learnings with them.
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11:47
We feel it's really important
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我们觉得把我们在做的事情
11:50
to take what we are doing
and spread it across the world.
and spread it across the world.
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推广到全世界真的非常重要。
11:55
In small towns and villages
across Pakistan,
across Pakistan,
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在巴基斯坦的小镇和村庄中，
男人改变了他们与女性互动的方式，
11:58
men are changing the way
they interact with women,
they interact with women,
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孩子们改变了看世界的方式，
12:01
children are changing
the way they see the world,
the way they see the world,
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用电影院的方式，
一个村庄接一个村庄的去改变。
一个村庄接一个村庄的去改变。
12:04
one village at a time, through cinema.
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谢谢。
12:07
Thank you.
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（鼓掌）
12:08
(Applause)
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ABOUT THE SPEAKER
Sharmeen Obaid-Chinoy - FilmmakerSharmeen Obaid-Chinoy makes documentary films. She's the founder of the Citizens Archive of Pakistan, dedicated to preserving Pakistan's history.
Why you should listen
Sharmeen Obaid-Chinoy is a film producer and journalist who has worked on 14 films for major networks in the United States and Britain. Her films include Children of the Taliban (with Dan Edge), The Lost Generation (about Iraqi exiles) and Afghanistan Unveiled. Her work has taken her around the world, where she has filmed and worked with refugees, women’s advocacy groups and human rights defenders. By bringing their voices to the outside world, she has often helped them bring about a critical change in their community.
Obaid-Chinoy helped found the Citizens Archive of Pakistan, a nonprofit, volunteer organization that fosters and promotes community-wide interest in the culture and history of Pakistan. Citizens Archive works with thousands of children, teaching critical thinking skills and instilling a sense of pride about their history and identity.
Obaid-Chinoy is a TED2010 Fellow.
Sharmeen Obaid-Chinoy | Speaker | TED.com