TEDGlobal 2014
Tasso Azevedo: Hopeful lessons from the battle to save rainforests
塔索•阿澤維多: 保護雨林戰爭中的充滿希望的教訓
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Readability: 4
947,095 views
“拯救雨林”是由來已久的環境標語，但是塔索阿澤維多告訴我們真正的“拯救”和“鬥爭”是如何進行的。在1990年令人瞠目結舌的損失的刺激下，新的法律（和公開的數據）正在有效減緩巴西的森林破壞。但這些夠麼？下一步應該怎麼做？塔索阿澤維在分享五點看法的同時，他主張巴西的教訓應該被應用於更大的問題：全球氣候變化。
Tasso Azevedo - Forester and sustainability activist
Tasso Azevedo has helped reduce the rate of deforestation in Brazil’s Amazon rainforest by 75 percent — and inspired similar efforts around the world. Full bio
Tasso Azevedo has helped reduce the rate of deforestation in Brazil’s Amazon rainforest by 75 percent — and inspired similar efforts around the world. Full bio
Double-click the English transcript below to play the video.
當葡萄牙人 500 年前
到達美洲大陸時，
到達美洲大陸時，
00:12
When the Portuguese arrived
in Latin America about 500 years ago,
in Latin America about 500 years ago,
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00:17
they obviously found
this amazing tropical forest.
this amazing tropical forest.
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很顯然，他們發現了
這神奇的熱帶雨林。
這神奇的熱帶雨林。
00:20
And among all this biodiversity
that they had never seen before,
that they had never seen before,
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他們從未經歷的生物多樣性中，
00:25
they found one species that caught
their attention very quickly.
their attention very quickly.
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有一種植物很快的引起了他們的注意力。
00:29
This species, when you cut the bark,
you find a very dark red resin
you find a very dark red resin
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當你切開它的樹皮，
會得到一種暗紅色的樹脂
會得到一種暗紅色的樹脂
00:35
that was very good to paint
and dye fabric to make clothes.
and dye fabric to make clothes.
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它是製作布料染色劑的上佳原料。
00:41
The indigenous people called
this species pau brasil,
this species pau brasil,
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土著叫它“巴西木”，
00:45
and that's the reason why this land became
"land of Brasil," and later on, Brazil.
"land of Brasil," and later on, Brazil.
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這也是為何這個國家成為“巴西之地”，
也就是後來的“巴西”。
也就是後來的“巴西”。
00:51
That's the only country in the world
that has the name of a tree.
that has the name of a tree.
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“巴西”成為了世界上
唯一以樹為名的國家。
唯一以樹為名的國家。
00:56
So you can imagine that it's very cool
to be a forester in Brazil,
to be a forester in Brazil,
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你可以想像，在巴西，
做一個護林員是很酷的，
做一個護林員是很酷的，
01:01
among other reasons.
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這只是眾多原因中的一個。
01:03
Forest products are all around us.
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林產品在我們周圍隨處可見。
01:06
Apart from all those products,
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除了這些產品，森林對氣候調節
起到非常重要作用。
起到非常重要作用。
01:08
the forest is very important
for climate regulation.
for climate regulation.
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01:12
In Brazil, almost 70 percent
of the evaporation that makes rain
of the evaporation that makes rain
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在巴西，構成雨的70%的水蒸氣
01:17
actually comes from the forest.
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實際上來自於森林。
01:19
Just the Amazon pumps to the atmosphere
20 billion tons of water every day.
20 billion tons of water every day.
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僅亞馬遜雨林每天
就向大氣蒸發 200 億噸水。
就向大氣蒸發 200 億噸水。
01:28
This is more than what the Amazon River,
which is the largest river in the world,
which is the largest river in the world,
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這比亞馬遜河，世界上最大的河，
01:33
puts in the sea per day,
which is 17 billion tons.
which is 17 billion tons.
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每天注入大海的水
170 億噸還要多，
170 億噸還要多，
01:38
If we had to boil water to get
the same effect as evapotranspiration,
the same effect as evapotranspiration,
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如果我們需要通過燒水
來達到同樣的蒸發量，
來達到同樣的蒸發量，
01:43
we would need six months of the entire
power generation capacity of the world.
power generation capacity of the world.
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我們需要六個月的全球發電總量。
01:49
So it's a hell of a service for all of us.
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所以森林對我們來說立下汗馬功勞。
01:52
We have in the world
about four billion hectares of forests.
about four billion hectares of forests.
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全世界大概有四十億公頃森林。
01:56
This is more or less China, U.S.,
Canada and Brazil all together,
Canada and Brazil all together,
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這大概是中國、美國、
加拿大和巴西的總和，
加拿大和巴西的總和，
02:02
in terms of size, to have an idea.
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面積上的話，基本是這麼個概念。
02:04
Three quarters of that
is in the temperate zone,
is in the temperate zone,
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其中四分之三是在溫帶，
02:08
and just one quarter is in the tropics,
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僅僅四分之一在熱帶。
02:12
but this one quarter, one billion
hectares, holds most of the biodiversity,
hectares, holds most of the biodiversity,
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但就是這四分之一，十億公頃，
擁有最豐富的生物多樣性，
擁有最豐富的生物多樣性，
02:18
and very importantly, 50 percent
of the living biomass, the carbon.
of the living biomass, the carbon.
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非常重要的是，其中包括了
構成活生物質 50％ 的碳。
構成活生物質 50％ 的碳。
02:24
Now, we used to have
six billion hectares of forest --
six billion hectares of forest --
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我們曾有 60 億公頃的森林，
02:28
50 percent more than
what we have -- 2,000 years ago.
what we have -- 2,000 years ago.
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比我們現在多 50％ ﹣
在 2000 年以前。
在 2000 年以前。
02:32
We've actually lost two billion hectares
in the last 2,000 years.
in the last 2,000 years.
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在過去的 2000 年裡，
我們總共失去了 20 億公頃。
我們總共失去了 20 億公頃。
02:35
But in the last 100 years,
we lost half of that.
we lost half of that.
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但是在最近的 100 年裡，
我們失去了其中的一半。
我們失去了其中的一半。
02:39
That was when we shifted
from deforestation of temperate forests
from deforestation of temperate forests
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與此同時當我們把森林砍伐
從溫帶轉向為熱帶。
從溫帶轉向為熱帶。
02:44
to deforestation of tropical forests.
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02:48
So think of this: In 100 years,
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大家想一想：在 100 年裡，
02:51
we lost the same amount
of forest in the tropics
of forest in the tropics
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我們失去的熱帶森林
02:55
that we lost in 2,000 years
in temperate forests.
in temperate forests.
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和我們在 2000 年裡
失去的溫帶森林一樣多。
失去的溫帶森林一樣多。
02:58
That's the speed of the destruction
that we are having.
that we are having.
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這就是我們破壞的速度。
03:02
Now, Brazil is an important
piece of this puzzle.
piece of this puzzle.
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現在，巴西是解決
這個問題關鍵的一環。
這個問題關鍵的一環。
03:06
We have the second largest
forest in the world, just after Russia.
forest in the world, just after Russia.
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我們有僅次於俄羅斯的
第二大森林覆蓋率，
第二大森林覆蓋率，
03:10
It means 12 percent of all
the world's forests are in Brazil,
the world's forests are in Brazil,
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這意味著全世界 12％ 的森林在巴西，
03:14
most of that in the Amazon.
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這些絕大部分在亞馬遜。
03:16
It's the largest piece of forest we have.
It's a very big, large area.
It's a very big, large area.
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這是非常大的一塊森林，
非常廣闊的範圍。
非常廣闊的範圍。
03:19
You can see that you could fit
many of the European countries there.
many of the European countries there.
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你可以把很多歐洲國家放到這裡面。
03:22
We still have 80 percent
of the forest cover.
of the forest cover.
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我們仍有 80％ 的森林覆蓋率。
03:26
That's the good news.
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這是好消息。
03:28
But we lost 15 percent in just 30 years.
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但是我們在 30 年裡失去了 15％。
03:32
So if you go with that speed,
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按照個速度，用不了不久，
03:34
very soon, we will loose this powerful
pump that we have in the Amazon
pump that we have in the Amazon
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我們就會失去亞馬遜
這個氣候調節的天然泵。
這個氣候調節的天然泵。
03:39
that regulates our climate.
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03:42
Deforestation was growing
fast and accelerating
fast and accelerating
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從 90 年代末，2000 年初，
森林破壞的速度很快而且在加速
森林破壞的速度很快而且在加速
03:44
at the end of the '90s
and the beginning of the 2000s.
and the beginning of the 2000s.
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03:47
(Chainsaw sound)
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（鋸子聲）
03:51
(Sound of falling tree)
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（樹倒下的聲音）
03:55
Twenty-seven thousand
square kilometers in one year.
square kilometers in one year.
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每年 27000 平方公里，
也就是 270 萬公頃。
03:59
This is 2.7 million hectares.
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04:03
It's almost like half
of Costa Rica every year.
of Costa Rica every year.
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相當於每年失去半個
哥斯大黎加這麼大的森林。
哥斯大黎加這麼大的森林。
04:09
So at this moment -- this is 2003, 2004 --
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在這個時候 ﹣ 這是 2003，2004 ﹣
04:13
I happened to be coming to work
in the government.
in the government.
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我碰巧在政府就職。
04:18
And together with other teammates
in the National Forest Department,
in the National Forest Department,
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和其他國家林業部的隊友，
04:22
we were assigned a task to join a team
and find out the causes of deforestation,
and find out the causes of deforestation,
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我們被分配到一個小組
去探究森林破壞的原因，
去探究森林破壞的原因，
04:28
and make a plan to combat that
at a national level,
at a national level,
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並且制定一個全國性戰略改革計劃，
04:31
involving the local governments,
the civil society,
the civil society,
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在當地政，民間組織，
04:34
business, local communities,
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商業團體，地方社區的
04:36
in an effort that could
tackle those causes.
tackle those causes.
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共同努力解決這些問題。
04:39
So we came up with this plan
with 144 actions in different areas.
with 144 actions in different areas.
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我們在不同層面上
提出了144條方案。
提出了144條方案。
04:45
Now I will go through
all of them one by one --
all of them one by one --
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現在我逐一講解 ﹣
04:47
no, just giving some examples
of what we had done in the next few years.
of what we had done in the next few years.
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開玩笑，只是舉例說說
我們接下來幾年的一些舉措。
我們接下來幾年的一些舉措。
04:54
So the first thing, we set up a system
with the national space agency
with the national space agency
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首先，我們和國家航天局
共同建立了一個系統，
共同建立了一個系統，
04:59
that could actually see
where deforestation is happening,
where deforestation is happening,
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可以監測到哪裡的森林正在破壞，
05:02
almost in real time.
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幾乎是即時的。
05:04
So now in Brazil,
we have this system, DETER,
we have this system, DETER,
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現在在巴西，我們有 DETER 系統，
05:06
where every month,
or every two months,
or every two months,
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每個月，或者每兩個月，
05:10
we get information on
where deforestation is happening
where deforestation is happening
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我們得到森林破壞情況的數據
05:12
so we can actually act
when it's happening.
when it's happening.
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從而在破壞發生時做出反應。
05:15
And all the information
is fully transparent
is fully transparent
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這些信息全部是公開透明的
05:17
so others can replicate that
in independent systems.
in independent systems.
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所以其他人可以複製到其他獨立系統。
05:20
This allows us, among other things,
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這讓我們得以扣押通過非法途徑
採伐的 140 萬立方米木料。
採伐的 140 萬立方米木料。
05:22
to apprehend 1.4 million cubic meters
of logs that were illegally taken.
of logs that were illegally taken.
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05:29
Part of that we saw and sell,
and all the revenue becomes a fund
and all the revenue becomes a fund
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其中的一部分我們鋸開售賣，
全部收入歸入一個基金，
全部收入歸入一個基金，
05:35
that now funds conservation projects
of local communities as an endowment fund.
of local communities as an endowment fund.
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用於資助當地保護項目。
05:40
This also allows us
to make a big operation
to make a big operation
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這使得我們有更大的行動力，
05:43
to seize corruption and illegal activities
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來緝獲腐敗和違法行為，
05:45
that ended up having 700 people in prison,
including a lot of public servants.
including a lot of public servants.
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直接導致 700 人入獄，
甚至包括不少公職人員。
甚至包括不少公職人員。
05:52
Then we made the connection
that areas that have been doing
that areas that have been doing
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接下來，通過連帶關係
我們使非法開採的地區
我們使非法開採的地區
05:56
illegal deforestation should not get
any kind of credit or finance.
any kind of credit or finance.
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無法得到信貸和財政資助，
06:00
So we cut this through the bank system
and then linked this to the end users.
and then linked this to the end users.
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通過銀行系統，把它與終端用戶相連。
06:05
So supermarkets,
the slaughterhouses, and so on
the slaughterhouses, and so on
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超市，屠宰場，等等。
06:07
that buy products
from illegal clear-cut areas,
from illegal clear-cut areas,
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只要向保護區購買林產品，
06:10
they also can be liable
for the deforestation.
for the deforestation.
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他們也會被追責。
06:14
So making all these connections to help
to push the problem down.
to push the problem down.
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所以連帶追責對問題的改善
起到了一定效果。
起到了一定效果。
06:18
And also we work a lot
on land tenure issues.
on land tenure issues.
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同時我們在土地使用權的問題上
採取了很多工作。
採取了很多工作。
06:21
It's very important for conflicts.
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這對解決爭端意義重大。
06:23
Fifty million hectares
of protected areas were created,
of protected areas were created,
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我們創造了 5000 萬公頃的保護用地，
06:26
which is an area the size of Spain.
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大約是一個西班牙的面積。
06:32
And of those, eight million
were indigenous lands.
were indigenous lands.
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其中 800 萬公頃是土著土地。
06:36
Now we start to see results.
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我們看到一些成效。
06:40
So in the last 10 years,
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過去的十年裡，
06:42
deforestation came down
in Brazil 75 percent.
in Brazil 75 percent.
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巴西的森林退化減低了 75％。
06:46
(Applause)
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（掌聲）
06:52
So if we compare it
with the average deforestation
with the average deforestation
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如果把平均退化率的數值進行比較
06:55
that we had in the last decade,
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跟過去十年的話，
06:58
we saved 8.7 million hectares,
which is the size of Austria.
which is the size of Austria.
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我們拯救了 870 萬公頃的森林，
相當於奧地利的面積。
相當於奧地利的面積。
07:03
But more importantly,
it avoided the emission
it avoided the emission
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更重要的是，這減少了大氣中
07:05
of three billion tons
of CO2 in the atmosphere.
of CO2 in the atmosphere.
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30 億噸二氧化碳排放量。
07:08
This is by far the largest contribution
to reduce greenhouse gas emissions,
to reduce greenhouse gas emissions,
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這是至今為止對於溫室氣體減排
07:13
until today, as a positive action.
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起到積極效應的一個最重要的舉措。
07:17
One may think that when you do
these kinds of actions
these kinds of actions
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有人擔憂，當我們採取這些
減少和遏制採伐的措施時，
減少和遏制採伐的措施時，
07:20
to decrease, to push down deforestation,
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07:24
you will have an economic impact
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經濟會受到影響。
07:26
because you will not have
economic activity or something like that.
economic activity or something like that.
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因為你將無法開展一些經濟活動。
07:30
But it's interesting to know
that it's quite the opposite.
that it's quite the opposite.
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但有趣的是，事實恰恰相反。
07:33
In fact, in the period when we have
the deepest decline of deforestation,
the deepest decline of deforestation,
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事實上，在森林破壞最迅速的那段時期，
07:37
the economy grew, on average,
double from the previous decade,
double from the previous decade,
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經濟增長平均達到了過去十年的一倍。
07:42
when deforestation was actually going up.
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07:44
So it's a good lesson for us.
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這給我們上了一課。
07:46
Maybe this is completely disconnected,
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或許它們毫無關聯，
07:49
as we just learned by having
deforestation come down.
deforestation come down.
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恰巧發生在採伐量下降的時期。
07:53
Now this is all good news,
and it's quite an achievement,
and it's quite an achievement,
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目前全都是好消息，大成就，
07:57
and we obviously should be
very proud about that.
very proud about that.
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我們顯然應該為此感到驕傲。
08:00
But it's not even close to sufficient.
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但是這遠不夠。
08:03
In fact, if you think about
the deforestation in the Amazon in 2013,
the deforestation in the Amazon in 2013,
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事實上，當你想想亞馬遜
2013 年的砍伐量，
2013 年的砍伐量，
08:08
that was over half a million hectares,
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超過 50 萬公頃，
08:11
which means that every minute,
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這意味著每一分鐘，
08:14
an area the size of two soccer fields
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就有兩片足球場大小的森林遭到破壞，
08:17
is being cut in the Amazon
last year, just last year.
last year, just last year.
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去年，就在去年。
08:21
If we sum up the deforestation we have
in the other biomes in Brazil,
in the other biomes in Brazil,
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如果把巴西其他
生態群落的砍伐量相加
生態群落的砍伐量相加
08:25
we are talking about still the largest
deforestation rate in the world.
deforestation rate in the world.
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我們得到的依舊是全世界
最大的森林破壞率。
最大的森林破壞率。
08:31
It's more or less like
we are forest heroes,
we are forest heroes,
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這大概是說，我們既是森林的守護神，
08:34
but still deforestation champions.
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同時又是森林的劊子手。
08:37
So we can't be satisfied,
not even close to satisfied.
not even close to satisfied.
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所以我們不敢自滿，遠不能自滿。
08:42
So the next step, I think,
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所以下一步，我認為，
08:44
is to fight to have zero loss
of forest cover in Brazil
of forest cover in Brazil
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是爭取在2020年，
目標達到巴西境內森林零砍伐。
目標達到巴西境內森林零砍伐。
08:48
and to have that as a goal for 2020.
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08:52
That's our next step.
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這是我們下一步計劃。
08:53
Now I've always been interested
in the relationship
in the relationship
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現在我著迷於這種
氣候改變與森林間的關係。
氣候改變與森林間的關係。
08:56
between climate change and forests.
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08:58
First, because 15 percent of greenhouse
gas emissions come from deforestation,
gas emissions come from deforestation,
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首先，因為 15％ 的溫室
氣體排放來源於森林砍伐，
氣體排放來源於森林砍伐，
09:04
so it's a big part of the problem.
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所以這是問題的一個重要部分。
09:06
But also, forests can be
a big part of the solution
a big part of the solution
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但同時，森林也是解決方案的
一個重要部分，
一個重要部分，
09:09
since that's the best way we know
to sink, capture and store carbon.
to sink, capture and store carbon.
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正因我們所知的最有效解決方案
就是沉積，捕捉，儲存碳。
就是沉積，捕捉，儲存碳。
09:16
Now, there is another relationship
of climate and forests
of climate and forests
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現在，氣候和森林有了另一關係
09:19
that really stuck me in 2008
and made me change my career
and made me change my career
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在 2008 年引起我深思，
並因此讓我的職業跑道
並因此讓我的職業跑道
09:23
from forests to working
with climate change.
with climate change.
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從森林轉向為氣候變化。
09:27
I went to visit Canada,
in British Columbia,
in British Columbia,
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我去訪問了加拿大，在英屬哥倫比亞，
09:29
together with the chiefs of
the forest services of other countries
the forest services of other countries
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同其他同盟國的林業部門長官，
09:34
that we have a kind of alliance of them,
like Canada, Russia, India, China, U.S.
like Canada, Russia, India, China, U.S.
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比如加拿大，俄羅斯，印度，中國，美國。
09:41
And when we were there
we learned about this pine beetle
we learned about this pine beetle
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在那我們認識了
啃噬森林的松樹甲蟲。
啃噬森林的松樹甲蟲。
09:46
that is literally eating
the forests in Canada.
the forests in Canada.
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09:49
What we see here, those brown trees,
these are really dead trees.
these are really dead trees.
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我們在這看到的，這些棕黃色的，
都是枯死的樹。
都是枯死的樹。
09:55
They are standing dead trees
because of the larvae of the beetle.
because of the larvae of the beetle.
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就因為這些甲蟲幼蟲。
10:00
What happens is that this beetle
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事實是這些甲蟲
受冬季寒冷的天氣控制。
受冬季寒冷的天氣控制。
10:03
is controlled by
the cold weather in the winter.
the cold weather in the winter.
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10:06
For many years now, they don't have
the sufficient cold weather
the sufficient cold weather
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但在多年裡，我們都沒有夠多的寒冬
10:09
to actually control
the population of this beetle.
the population of this beetle.
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來控制甲蟲的數量。
10:13
And it became a disease
that is really killing billions of trees.
that is really killing billions of trees.
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然而這衍生為一種病害，
數億植株遭到滅頂之災。
數億植株遭到滅頂之災。
10:20
So I came back with this notion
that the forest is actually
that the forest is actually
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所以回來以後我產生了一個概念：
10:24
one of the earliest and most affected
victims of climate change.
victims of climate change.
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森林事實上是氣候改變的
最初受害者之一。
最初受害者之一。
10:29
So I was thinking,
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我想，即使我能與同僚們
成功地抑制森林退化，
成功地抑制森林退化，
10:31
if I succeed in working
with all my colleagues
with all my colleagues
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10:35
to actually help to stop deforestation,
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10:38
maybe we will lose the battle
later on for climate change
later on for climate change
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或許今後我們也將
在氣候改變的PK中，
在氣候改變的PK中，
10:42
by floods, heat, fires and so on.
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也將成為洪水，炎熱，烈火等
其他災害的手下敗將。
其他災害的手下敗將。
10:46
So I decided to leave the forest service
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所以我決定離開林業局
10:50
and start to work directly
on climate change,
on climate change,
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直接致力於氣候改變的工作，
10:53
find a way to think and understand
the challenge, and go from there.
the challenge, and go from there.
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找到一種方式來思考和理解
所面臨的挑戰，並從此出發。
所面臨的挑戰，並從此出發。
10:57
Now, the challenge of climate change
is pretty straightforward.
is pretty straightforward.
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現在，氣候改變的挑戰非常明瞭。
11:02
The goal is very clear.
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目標也很明確。
11:03
We want to limit the increase
of the average temperature
of the average temperature
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我們希望全球平均氣溫的升高
11:07
of the planet to two degrees.
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控制在 2℃ 之內。
11:10
There are several reasons for that.
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這有很多原因，
11:11
I will not get into that now.
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我現在先不詳談。
11:13
But in order to get
to this limit of two degrees,
to this limit of two degrees,
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但為了爭取這 2℃ 的限制 ﹣
11:17
which is possible for us to survive,
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也就為我們贏得了生存空間，
11:21
the IPCC, the Intergovernmental
Panel on Climate Change,
Panel on Climate Change,
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IPCC ﹣ 政府間氣候變化專門委員會，
11:26
defines that we have a budget of emissions
of 1,000 billion tons of CO2
of 1,000 billion tons of CO2
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限定說到本世紀末，
二氧化碳排放量配額在 10000 億噸。
二氧化碳排放量配額在 10000 億噸。
11:33
from now until the end of the century.
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11:36
So if we divide this
by the number of years,
by the number of years,
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分配到每年，
11:39
what we have is an average budget
of 11 billion tons of CO2 per year.
of 11 billion tons of CO2 per year.
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我們可以平均排放 110 億的二氧化碳。
11:45
Now what is one ton of CO2?
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那麼一噸的二氧化碳有多少呢？
11:48
It's more or less what one small car,
running 20 kilometers a day,
running 20 kilometers a day,
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大概是一輛小車每天跑 20 千米，
11:54
will emit in one year.
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一年的排放量。
11:56
Or it's one flight, one way,
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或者是一趟航班，
11:58
from São Paulo to Johannesburg
or to London, one way.
or to London, one way.
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從聖保羅到約翰內斯堡，
或者倫敦，單程的排放量。
或者倫敦，單程的排放量。
12:02
Two ways, two tons.
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往返，兩噸。
12:03
So 11 billion tons is twice that.
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所以說 110 億是
我們當下年排放量的兩倍，
我們當下年排放量的兩倍，
12:07
Now the emissions today
are 50 billion tons, and it's growing.
are 50 billion tons, and it's growing.
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我們當今的排放量 500 億噸，
還在持續增長。
還在持續增長。
12:14
It's growing and maybe
it will be 61 by 2020.
it will be 61 by 2020.
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可能在 2020 年達到 610 億噸。
12:18
Now we need to go down to 10 by 2050.
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我們需要在 2050 年前
把它降低到 100 億。
把它降低到 100 億。
12:23
And while this happens,
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與此同時，
12:25
the population will grow
from seven to nine billion people,
from seven to nine billion people,
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全球人口將從現在的 70 億
增長到 90 億，
增長到 90 億，
12:28
the economy will grow
from 60 trillion dollars in 2010
from 60 trillion dollars in 2010
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經濟將從 2010 年的 60 兆
增長到 200 兆。
增長到 200 兆。
12:31
to 200 trillion dollars.
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12:33
And so what we need to do
is to be much more efficient
is to be much more efficient
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所以我們需要更有效率地
12:37
in a way that we can go
from seven tons of carbon per capita
from seven tons of carbon per capita
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把人均二氧化碳排放量從 7 噸
降低到每人、每年差不多 1 噸。
降低到每人、每年差不多 1 噸。
12:42
per person, per year,
into something like one.
into something like one.
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12:47
You have to choose.
You take the airplane or you have a car.
You take the airplane or you have a car.
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我們必須做出選擇。
你是搭乘飛機呢，還是擁有汽車。
你是搭乘飛機呢，還是擁有汽車。
12:52
So the question is, can we make it?
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問題是，我們做的到嗎？
12:54
And that's the exactly the same question
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這也是當我制定反森林破壞計劃時
碰到的一個同樣的問題。
碰到的一個同樣的問題。
12:56
I got when I was developing
a plan to combat deforestation.
a plan to combat deforestation.
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13:01
It's such a big problem, so complex.
Can we really do it?
Can we really do it?
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問題如此龐大，如此複雜。
我們可以做到嗎？
我們可以做到嗎？
13:05
I think so. Think of this:
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我認為可以。
13:08
Deforestation means 60 percent
of the greenhouse gas emissions
of the greenhouse gas emissions
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試想：森林退化造成了過去十年裡
巴西 60％ 的溫室氣體排放。
巴西 60％ 的溫室氣體排放。
13:13
in Brazil in the last decade.
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13:15
Now it's a little bit
less than 30 percent.
less than 30 percent.
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這個數字現在不到 30％。
13:17
In the world, 60 percent is energy.
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而當今，60％ 多的排放源自能源。
13:21
So if we can tackle directly the energy,
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如果我們直接從能源入手，
13:25
the same way we could
tackle deforestation,
tackle deforestation,
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以同樣方式對付森林破壞的方式，
13:27
maybe we can have a chance.
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我們可能會有希望。
13:29
So there are five things
that I think we should do.
that I think we should do.
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所以我們可以做的有五點：
13:33
First, we need to disconnect development
from carbon emissions.
from carbon emissions.
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首先，我們應該把發展
和二氧化碳的聯繫斷開。
和二氧化碳的聯繫斷開。
13:37
We don't need to clear-cut all the forests
to actually get more jobs
to actually get more jobs
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我們並不需要通過砍伐森林
來創造工作，農業或者商業利益。
13:43
and agriculture and have more economy.
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13:45
That's what we proved
when we decreased deforestation
when we decreased deforestation
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我們在降低森林砍伐率的同時
就已經證明了經濟可以持續增長。
就已經證明了經濟可以持續增長。
13:48
and the economy continued to grow.
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能源方面也是如此。
13:50
Same thing could happen
in the energy sector.
in the energy sector.
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第二，我們必須把激勵給正確的地方。
13:54
Second, we have to move
the incentives to the right place.
the incentives to the right place.
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13:57
Today, 500 billion dollars a year
goes into subsidies for fossil fuels.
goes into subsidies for fossil fuels.
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今天，一年有 5 千億元被用於
對化石燃料的補貼。
對化石燃料的補貼。
14:03
Why don't we put a price on carbon
and transfer this to the renewable energy?
and transfer this to the renewable energy?
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為什麼不在碳上漲價，
貼補給可再生能源？
貼補給可再生能源？
14:08
Third, we need to measure
and make it transparent
and make it transparent
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第三，我們需要監測並發布
14:11
where, when and who
is emitting greenhouse gases
is emitting greenhouse gases
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誰在哪裡，什麼時間，排放了溫室氣體，
14:14
so we can have actions specifically
for each one of those opportunities.
for each one of those opportunities.
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我們得以有針對性地
對每一次行為作出反應。
對每一次行為作出反應。
14:19
Fourth, we need to leapfrog
the routes of development,
the routes of development,
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第四，我們需要跳躍式發展前進，
14:23
which means, you don't need
to go to the landline telephone
to go to the landline telephone
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這意味著，我們不必在得到手機前
一定先裝個固定電話。
一定先裝個固定電話。
14:26
before you get to the mobile phones.
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14:29
Same way we don't need
to go to fossil fuels
to go to fossil fuels
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同樣，尚未使用能源的10億人口
也不需要先經過化石燃料
也不需要先經過化石燃料
14:31
to the one billion people
who don't have access to energy
who don't have access to energy
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才能享用清潔能源。
14:33
before we get to the clean energy.
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第五點，也是最後一點，
14:36
And fifth and last,
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14:37
we need to share responsibility
between governments,
between governments,
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我們需要和不同的政府，
商業，民政組織分擔責任。
商業，民政組織分擔責任。
14:40
business and civil society.
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14:43
There is work to do for everybody,
and we need to have everybody on board.
and we need to have everybody on board.
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每個人都肩負使命，
我們需要大家攜手前行。
我們需要大家攜手前行。
14:48
So to finalize,
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最後，我相信未來並非一場宿命，
14:49
I think the future is not like a fate
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14:53
that you have to just go
as business as usual goes.
as business as usual goes.
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一場商業世界你不得不遵循的宿命。
14:56
We need to have the courage
to actually change the route,
to actually change the route,
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我們需要勇氣打破常規，
擁抱新的理念，
擁抱新的理念，
14:59
invest in something new,
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我們需要認識到
我們有能力改變常規。
我們有能力改變常規。
15:01
think that we can actually
change the route.
change the route.
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15:04
I think we are doing this
with deforestation in Brazil,
with deforestation in Brazil,
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解決巴西森林退化的問題，
我們已經做到了。
我們已經做到了。
15:07
and I hope we can do it also
with climate change in the world.
with climate change in the world.
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我希望，應對全球氣候變化的挑戰，
我們也能辦到。
我們也能辦到。
15:10
Thank you.
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謝謝大家。
15:11
(Applause)
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（掌聲）
ABOUT THE SPEAKER
Tasso Azevedo - Forester and sustainability activistTasso Azevedo has helped reduce the rate of deforestation in Brazil’s Amazon rainforest by 75 percent — and inspired similar efforts around the world.
Why you should listen
Tasso Azevedo founded the Brazilian non-governmental organization Imaflora in 1995 to create alternatives to deforestation. It became the leading environmental certification institution in Brazil. In 2003 he was appointed as the first director general of Brazil's National Forest Service.
In that job, by showing how the health of the Amazon rainforest is directly connected to his country’s economic stability and energy security, he led the implementation of an innovative framework of incentives for sustainable forestry that contributed to reduce the ate of deforestation in the Amazon by 75 percent -- and Brazil's greenhouse gas emissions by one-third. Today, Azevedo is focused on addressing climate change globally.
Tasso Azevedo | Speaker | TED.com