TEDIndia 2009
Shaffi Mather: A new way to fight corruption
夏非‧馬德（Shaffi Mather）：反貪腐新招
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夏非‧馬德分享了他離開第一份工作而成為社會企業家的原因，他的公司「1298救護專線」（Dial 1298 for Ambulance）專門提供救命的交通工具。現在，他的新點子和新計畫是要成立一家公司，打擊公部門益發猖獗的貪污惡習，將賄賂行為各個擊破。
Shaffi Mather - Social entrepreneur, lawyer
Shaffi Mather is the founder of 1298 for Ambulance, Education Access for All, and co-promoter of Moksha-Yug Access. Full bio
Shaffi Mather is the founder of 1298 for Ambulance, Education Access for All, and co-promoter of Moksha-Yug Access. Full bio
Double-click the English transcript below to play the video.
00:15
The anger in me against corruption
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我對貪腐的憤怒
00:19
made me to make a big career change
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促使我在去年轉換跑道，
00:22
last year, becoming a full-time practicing lawyer.
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成為一名全職的執業律師。
00:26
My experiences over the last 18 months,
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過去18個月的律師經驗
00:30
as a lawyer, has seeded in me
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使我產生了
00:32
a new entrepreneurial idea,
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新的創業想法，
00:35
which I believe is indeed
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我相信這個想法
00:37
worth spreading.
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一定很值得傳播。
00:39
So, I share it with all of you here today,
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所以，我今天在這裡和你們分享這個想法，
00:42
though the idea itself is getting crystallized
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雖然這個想法才在成形，
00:44
and I'm still writing up the business plan.
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而且我還在寫營運企劃書。
00:47
Of course it helps that fear of public failure
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當然，隨著愈來愈多的
00:50
diminishes as the number of ideas
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失敗的點子，
00:53
which have failed increases.
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我也比較不怕在大家面前出糗。
00:57
I've been a huge fan of enterprise and entrepreneurship
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從1993年以來，我一直熱衷於
01:00
since 1993.
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企業與創業。
01:02
I've explored, experienced,
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我已盡情地
01:04
and experimented enterprise
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探索、體驗、實驗
01:06
and capitalism to my heart's content.
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創業和資本主義。
01:09
I built, along with my two brothers,
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我和我的兩個兄弟一起
01:11
the leading real estate company in my home state, Kerala,
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在我的家鄉喀拉拉創立了首屈一指的房地產公司。
01:15
and then worked professionally
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接著我以專業的身分
01:17
with two of India's biggest businessmen,
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和兩位印度的商業鉅子一同工作，
01:20
but in their startup enterprises.
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不過是在他們事業的草創時期。
01:23
In 2003, when I stepped out of the pure play capitalistic sector
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2003年，我離開純資本主義部門
01:28
to work on so-called social sector issues,
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到所謂的社會部門工作時，
01:32
I definitely did not have any grand strategy
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我完全沒有任何遠大的策略或計畫
01:36
or plan to pursue and find
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要追求和尋找
01:39
for-profit solutions
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可營利的方式
01:41
to addressing pressing public issues.
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來解決迫切的公共議題，
01:44
When life brought about a series
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直到一連串
01:46
of death and near-death experiences
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死亡與瀕死經驗
01:49
within my close circle,
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出現在我周遭。
01:51
which highlighted the need
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這些經驗突顯了
01:53
for an emergency medical response service in India,
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印度對緊急醫療服務的需求，
01:56
similar to 911 in USA.
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也就是類似美國的911系統。
01:59
To address this, I, along with four friends,
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為了解決此需求，我和四名友人
02:02
founded Ambulance Access for All,
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成立了「全民救護車服務」，
02:04
to promote life-support ambulance services in India.
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希望改善印度救命的救護車服務。
02:08
For those from the developing world,
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對開發中國家來說，
02:10
there is nothing, absolutely nothing new in this idea.
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這個想法一點都不新。
02:13
But as we envisioned it,
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但根據我們的展望，
02:15
we had three key goals:
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我們有三大目標：
02:17
Providing world-class life support ambulance service
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提供世界級的救護車服務、
02:20
which is fully self-sustainable from its own revenue streams,
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其運作完全仰賴自身獨立的收入來源、
02:23
and universally accessible
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任何遭遇緊急事故的人
02:25
to anyone in a medical emergency,
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都可使用，
02:28
irrespective of the capability to pay.
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不論病患是否負擔得起。
02:31
The service which grew out of this,
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這個服務從
02:33
Dial 1298 for Ambulance,
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「1298救護專線」開始，
02:35
with one ambulance in 2004,
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2004年時只有一輛救護車，
02:38
now has a hundred-plus ambulances in three states,
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現在已經在印度三個邦擁有一百多輛救護車，
02:41
and has transported over 100,000 patients
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自運行以來，累計載運的傷患
02:44
and victims since inception.
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超過了十萬人。
02:46
The service is -- (Applause)
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這個服務的運作...(掌聲)
02:49
fully self-sustainable from its own revenues,
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完全仰賴自身的營收，
02:52
without accessing any public funds,
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不需任何公共資金，
02:54
and the cross-subsidy model actually works,
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交叉補貼的模式確實行得通，
02:58
where the rich pays higher, poor pays lower,
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也就是富人收費較高，窮人收費較低，
03:01
and the accident victim is getting the service free of charge.
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意外事故的受害者則免費。
03:05
The service responded effectively
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在不幸的1126孟買恐怖攻擊
03:07
and efficiently,
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發生時，
03:09
during the unfortunate
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此服務做了
03:11
26/11 Mumbai terror attacks.
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迅速有效的回應。
03:14
And as you can see from the visuals,
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你們可以看到畫面，
03:18
the service was responding and rescuing
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我們的救護服務正在事故現場
03:21
victims from the incident locations
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援助受害者，
03:24
even before the police could cordon off
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這時候警方甚至還未
03:27
the incident locations
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封鎖現場，
03:30
and formally confirm it as a terror strike.
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也還未正式確認此為恐怖攻擊。
03:33
We ended up being the first medical response team
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結果我們在每一個事故現場
03:37
in every incident location
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都是第一個到達的醫療團隊，
03:40
and transported 125 victims,
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運送了125名傷患，
03:43
saving life.
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拯救生命。
03:45
(Applause)
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(掌聲)
03:50
In tribute and remembrance
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為了紀念
03:54
of 26/11 attacks
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1126攻擊事件，
03:58
over the last one year,
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過去一年，
04:01
we have actually helped a Pakistani NGO,
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我們幫一個巴基斯坦非政府組織－－
04:04
Aman Foundation,
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阿曼基金會，
04:07
to set up a self-sustainable life support ambulance service
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在聰明人基金的贊助下，於喀拉蚩
04:11
in Karachi, facilitated by Acumen Fund.
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成立一個獨立營運的救護車服務。
04:14
(Applause)
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(掌聲)
04:20
It's a small message from us,
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用我們微薄的力量，
04:24
in our own small way
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我們想要傳達一個小小的訊息給
04:26
to the enemies of humanity,
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那些泯滅人性，
04:28
of Islam, of South Asia,
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和伊斯蘭、南亞、
04:31
of India, and of Pakistan,
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印度，以及巴基斯坦為敵的人，
04:34
that humanity will continue to bloom,
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人道主義不會因為那些拙劣的手段
04:37
irrespective of such dastardly attacks.
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就停止發光發熱。
04:39
Since then I've also co-founded two other social enterprises.
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從那時起，我也和他人共同創辦了兩個社會企業。
04:43
One is Education Access for All,
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其中之一是「全民教育」，
04:45
setting up schools in small-town India.
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在印度的偏遠城鎮廣設學校。
04:48
And the other is Moksha-Yug Access,
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另一個是「實現莫克夏」，
04:50
which is integrating rural supply chain
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以自助團體組成的微型金融為基礎，
04:52
on the foundations of self-help group-based microfinance.
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整合鄉村的供給鏈。
04:57
I guess we seem to be doing at least a few things right.
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我想我們至少做對了幾件事，
05:00
Because diligent investors and venture funds
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因為盡責的投資人和創投基金
05:03
have committed over 7.5 million dollars in funding.
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已經挹注了750萬美元以上的資金。
05:07
With the significance being these funds have come in
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重要性在於，這些基金都是
05:09
as a QT capital, not as grant or as philanthropy.
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合格交易的資金，而非慈善捐款。
05:13
Now I come back to the idea of the new social enterprise
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回到我目前正在探索的那個
05:16
that I'm exploring.
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新社會企業－－
05:18
Corruption, bribes, and lack of transparency.
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貪腐、賄賂、與黑箱作業。
05:21
You may be surprised to know
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你們可能不知道，
05:23
that eight speakers yesterday
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事實上，昨天有八位講者
05:26
actually mentioned these terms in their talks.
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在演講中提到了這些詞。
05:29
Bribes and corruption have both a demand and a supply side,
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賄賂和貪腐都擁有供需兩面。
05:32
with the supply side being mostly of
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供給面大部分是
05:35
greedy corporate unethical businesses
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貪婪的公司、不道德的企業，
05:37
and hapless common man.
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以及遭遇不幸的一般人。
05:39
And the demand side being mostly politicians,
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需求面則多為政客、
05:42
bureaucrats and those who have discretionary power
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官僚，以及有權力任意行事
05:44
vested with them.
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的人。
05:46
According to World Bank estimate,
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根據世界銀行的估計，
05:48
one trillion dollars is paid in bribes
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每年賄賂的總額約為一兆美元，
05:51
every year, worsening the condition
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這讓原本就很糟的情況
05:53
of the already worse off.
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雪上加霜。
05:55
Yet, if you analyze the common man,
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然而，你若分析一般人的情況會發現，
05:58
he or she does not wake up every day and say,
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一般百姓不會每天醒來說：
06:01
"Hmm, let me see who I can pay a bribe to today."
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「嗯，我來想想今天該賄賂誰。」
06:04
or, "Let me see who I can corrupt today."
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或是，「我來想想今天要收買誰。」
06:07
Often it is the constraining or the back-to-the-wall situation
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通常是因為迫於現實或陷入絕境，
06:12
that the hapless common man finds himself or herself in
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不幸的平民百姓
06:15
that leads him to pay a bribe.
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才會行賄。
06:17
In the modern day world, where time is premium
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現代社會，時間就是金錢，
06:20
and battle for subsistence is unimaginably tough,
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生存非常困難，
06:23
the hapless common man
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以至於遭遇不幸的百姓
06:25
simply gives in and pays the bribe just to get on with life.
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只能屈服於現實，為了生計而行賄。
06:30
Now, let me ask you another question.
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現在，我要問你們另一個問題。
06:32
Imagine you are being asked to pay a bribe
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想像在你的日常生活中，要辦成某些事
06:34
in your day-to-day life to get something done.
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必須用錢買通。
06:37
What do you do? Of course you can call the police.
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你該怎麼辦？當然你可以報警，
06:40
But what is the use if the police department is in itself steeped in corruption?
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但如果警局本身已經充斥著貪腐，報警又有什麼用呢？
06:44
Most definitely you don't want to pay the bribe.
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你絕對不想行賄，
06:47
But you also don't have the time, resources,
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但你也沒有時間、資源、
06:50
expertise or wherewithal to fight this.
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專業知識、或足夠的資金來對抗此惡習。
06:53
Unfortunately, many of us in this room
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遺憾的是，在座的各位很多人是
06:57
are supporters of capitalist policies and market forces.
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資本主義政策與市場力量的支持者。
07:01
Yet the market forces around the world
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但全世界的市場力量
07:04
have not yet thrown up a service where you can call in,
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卻還沒能產生一個服務，讓你可以打電話進去、
07:07
pay a fee, and fight the demand for a bribe.
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付費，來對抗賄賂的需求面。
07:10
Like a bribe buster service,
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像是反貪腐服務、
07:13
or 1-800-Fight-Bribes,
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反貪腐協會、
07:15
or www.stopbribes.org or
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www.stopbribes.org,
07:19
www.preventcorruption.org.
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或是www.preventcorruption.org,
07:22
Such a service simply do not exist.
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這樣的服務就是沒有。
07:25
One image that has haunted me
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在我事業起步初期，
07:27
from my early business days
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有一個畫面一直在我腦海揮之不去，
07:29
is of a grandmother, 70 plus years, being harassed
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一名七十多歲的老婦人
07:32
by the bureaucrats in the town planning office.
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被都市發展處的官僚刁難。
07:35
All she needed was permission to build three steps
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老婦人只是要申請許可，好從地面
07:37
to her house, from ground level,
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建造三級階梯到她的房子，
07:39
making it easier for her to enter and exit her house.
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這樣她比較方便進出。
07:42
Yet the officer in charge would not simply give her the permit
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但是，負責接洽的公務員就是不給她許可，
07:45
for want of a bribe.
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因為沒有賄金。
07:47
Even though it pricked my conscience then,
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雖然當時我備受良心的譴責，
07:49
I could not, or rather I did not
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但是我不能，或者說我沒有
07:51
tend to her or assist her,
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去關心或幫助她，
07:54
because I was busy building my real estate company.
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因為我正忙著成立我的房地產公司。
07:56
I don't want to be haunted by such images any more.
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我不想再被這樣的畫面困擾。
08:00
A group of us have been working on a pilot basis
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我們有一群人已經開始試辦，
08:02
to address individual instances of demands
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在公共服務和人民應得的權利方面
08:05
for bribes for common services or entitlement.
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解決收賄的個案。
08:08
And in all 42 cases where we have pushed back such demands
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在42件我們所解決的個案中，
08:11
using existing and legitimate tools
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我們利用現有合法的手段，
08:14
like the Right to Information Act,
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像是《資訊權利法》、
08:16
video, audio, or peer pressure,
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錄影、錄音，或同儕壓力，
08:19
we have successfully obtained whatever our clients
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已經成功達到客戶設定的任何目標，
08:21
set out to achieve without actually paying a bribe.
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而沒有付出任何賄金。
08:25
And with the cost of these tools being substantially lower
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使用這些方法的費用
08:28
than the bribe demanded.
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遠低於賄賂所需。
08:30
I believe that these tools that worked in these 42 pilot cases
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我相信這42個試辦個案所使用的方法
08:35
can be consolidated in standard processes
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可以結合成類似商業流程委外（BPO）中的
08:39
in a BPO kind of environment,
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標準作業程序，
08:42
and made available on web, call-center
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透過網路、客服中心，
08:45
and franchise physical offices,
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以及特許經營的實體企業就可付費使用，
08:47
for a fee, to serve anyone confronted with a demand for a bribe.
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服務任何被迫行賄的人。
08:52
The target market is as tempting as it can get.
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這個目標市場相當吸引人。
08:55
It can be worth up to one trillion dollars,
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每年花在賄賂的金額
08:58
being paid in bribes every year,
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高達一兆美元，
09:00
or equal to India's GDP.
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相當於印度的國內生產毛額。
09:03
And it is an absolutely virgin market.
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而且這個市場完全未被開發。
09:06
I propose to explore this idea further,
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我打算進一步拓展我的計畫，
09:09
to examine the potential of creating
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證明創造一個營利、付費的，
09:11
a for-profit, fee-based BPO
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類似商業流程委外的服務，
09:15
kind of service to stop bribes
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來終止賄賂、杜絕貪腐
09:17
and prevent corruption.
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並不是痴人說夢。
09:19
I do realize that the fight for justice
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我知道為了正義打擊貪腐
09:22
against corruption is never easy.
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絕對不簡單，
09:25
It never has been and it never will be.
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從過去到未來都是如此。
09:27
In my last 18 months as a lawyer,
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在我擔任律師的18個月中，
09:30
battling small- and large-scale corruption,
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曾和大大小小的賄賂案奮戰過，
09:32
including the one perpetrated by India's biggest corporate scamster.
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包括印度最大的企業弊案主使人
09:36
Through his charities
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利用其公益事業涉貪的案子。
09:38
I have had three police cases filed against me
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我曾經被三件案子纏身，
09:41
alleging trespass, impersonation and intimidation.
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控告我侵害、冒充和恐嚇罪。
09:44
The battle against corruption
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我們、我們的家人、
09:46
exacts a toll on ourselves,
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朋友，甚至孩子
09:48
our families, our friends, and even our kids.
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必須為打擊貪腐付出代價。
09:52
Yet I believe the price we pay is well worth holding on
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但我相信，為了我們的尊嚴以及世界的公平，
09:54
to our dignity and making the world a fairer place.
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我們付出的代價非常值得。
09:58
What gives us the courage?
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我們的勇氣從哪來？
10:00
As my close friend replied, when told
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如同我的摯友在救護車計劃起步時，
10:02
during the seeding days of the ambulance project
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回答別人時所說的，
10:05
that it is an impossible task
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當有人說救護車計劃是天方夜譚，
10:07
and the founders are insane to chalk up their blue-chip jobs,
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創辦人根本是頭殼壞去才會放棄他們的夢幻工作，
10:10
I quote: "Of course we cannot fail in this,
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我朋友回答：「我們不會失敗，
10:13
at least in our own minds.
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至少在我們的心中我們不會失敗。
10:15
For we are insane people,
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因為我們是一群
10:17
trying to do an impossible task.
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試著完成不可能任務的瘋子，
10:19
And an insane person does not know what an impossible task is." Thank you.
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而瘋子不知道什麼叫做不可能的任務。」謝謝。
10:23
(Applause)
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（掌聲）
10:31
Chris Anderson: Shaffi, that is a really exciting business idea.
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夏非，這個計劃讓人非常興奮。
10:36
Shaffi Mather: I just have to get through the initial days where I don't get eliminated.
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我只要渡過起步的這段時間沒被幹掉就好了。
10:40
(Laughter)
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（笑聲）
10:42
CA: What's on your mind?
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你有什麼想法？
10:43
I mean, give us a sense of the numbers here --
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我是說，可不可以給我們一點數字概念－－
10:45
a typical bribe and a typical fee. I mean, what's in your head?
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像是一般的賄賂和你們的收費各是多少。你有什麼想法？
10:48
SM: So let me ... Let me give you an example.
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我舉個例子好了，
10:52
Somebody who had applied for the passport.
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某人去申請護照，
10:55
The officer was just sitting on it
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辦事員兩手一攤，
10:58
and was demanding around 3,000 rupees in bribes.
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要求三千盧比上下的賄金，
11:01
And he did not want to pay.
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而某人並不想付這筆錢。
11:04
So we actually used the Right to Information Act,
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所以我們採用《資訊權利法》，
11:06
which is equal to the Freedom of Information Act in the United States,
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類似美國的《資訊自由法》，
11:09
and pushed back the officers in this particular case.
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迫使辦事員讓步。
11:14
And in all these 42 cases,
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在42個案例中，
11:16
when we kept pushing them back,
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我們的反制行動
11:19
there was three kinds of reaction.
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通常會遭遇三種反應。
11:21
A set of people actually say,
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有些人會說：
11:23
"Oh, let me just grant it to them, and run away from it."
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「噢，他們要什麼我就給什麼吧，我不想惹事。」
11:26
Some people actually come back and say,
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有些人則會反過來對我們說：
11:29
"Oh, you want to screw me. Let me show you what I can do."
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「想找我麻煩是吧！我讓你們吃不完兜著走。」
11:32
And he will push us back.
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然後做出反擊。
11:34
So you take the next step, or use the next tool available
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這時我們就得採取下一步，
11:38
in what we are putting together,
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或用其他我們想得到的辦法，
11:40
and then he relents.
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對方接著就會讓步。
11:43
By the third time, in all 42 cases, we have achieved success.
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42個案子全部都到第三次就成功。
11:46
CA: But if it's a 3,000-rupee, 70-dollar bribe,
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如果說賄金是三千盧比，也就是七十美元，
11:51
what fee would you have to charge,
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你們要收費多少，
11:53
and can you actually make the business work?
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這門生意才做得起來呢？
11:55
SM: Well, actually the cost that we incurred
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我們的收費
11:59
was less than 200 rupees.
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實際上低於兩百盧比。
12:02
So, it actually works.
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所以，的確是行得通。
12:05
CA: That's a high gross margin business. I like it.
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利潤很高啊！我喜歡。
12:08
(Laughter)
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（笑聲）
12:10
SM: I actually did not want to answer this on the TED stage.
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我本來沒打算在TED提的。
12:13
CA: OK, so these are provisional numbers, no pricing guarantee.
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OK，這些都是暫定的數字，實際收費不見得是如此。
12:17
If you can pull this off, you will be a global hero.
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如果你成功了，你就是全世界的英雄。
12:20
I mean, this could be huge.
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這相當了不起。
12:22
Thank you so much for sharing this idea at TED.
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非常謝謝你在TED與我們分享。
12:24
(Applause)
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（掌聲）
ABOUT THE SPEAKER
Shaffi Mather - Social entrepreneur, lawyerShaffi Mather is the founder of 1298 for Ambulance, Education Access for All, and co-promoter of Moksha-Yug Access.
Why you should listen
Shaffi Mather was a successful young entrepreneur, who brought a family-run real estate business to the forefront of the local market before moving on to take major positions at two of India’s largest communication corporations -- Essel Group and Reliance Industries. However, after a perilous ride to the hospital with his mother he was forced to confront India’s need for a dependable ambulance service. He left his career at Reliance and founded 1298 for Ambulance, a for-profit service with a sliding scale payment system that has revolutionized medical transport in Mumbai and Kerala.
Today, Mather is also a co-founder of Moksha-Yug Access, a microfinance instiution that operates in rural India, and The Education Initiative, which is involved in e-learning and in creating schools across India. In addition, Mather is a lawyer focusing on litigation in public interest -- battling for transparency in governance and use of public funds, human rights, civil rights and primacy of constitution. He is a TEDIndia Fellow.
Shaffi Mather | Speaker | TED.com