TED2015
Trevor Aaronson: How this FBI strategy is actually creating US-based terrorists
Trevor Aaronson: Hvordan FBI er med til at skabe terrorister i USA
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Der er en organisation ansvarlig for flere terrorkomplotter i Amerika end al-Qaeda, al-Shabaab og ISIS til sammen: FBI. Hvordan? Hvorfor? I et opsigtsvækkende oplæg, afslører den undersøgende journalist, Trevor Aaronson, en foruroligende FBI praksis som avler terrorkomplotter ved at udnytte muslim-amerikanere med psykiske problemer.
Trevor Aaronson - Journalist
An investigative journalist who reports on the FBI’s misuse of informants in counterterrorism operations, Trevor Aaronson asks the question: Is the United States catching terrorists or creating them? Full bio
An investigative journalist who reports on the FBI’s misuse of informants in counterterrorism operations, Trevor Aaronson asks the question: Is the United States catching terrorists or creating them? Full bio
Double-click the English transcript below to play the video.
00:13
The FBI is responsible
for more terrorism plots
for more terrorism plots
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FBI er ansvarlige for
flere terror-komplotter
flere terror-komplotter
00:15
in the United States
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i Amerika
00:17
than any other organization.
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end nogen andre organisationer.
00:19
More than al Qaeda,
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Flere end al-Qaeda,
00:21
more than al Shabaab,
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flere end al-Shabaab,
00:23
more than the Islamic State,
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flere end Islamisk stat.
00:24
more than all of them combined.
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Flere end alle dem sammenlagt.
00:27
This isn't likely how you
think about the FBI.
think about the FBI.
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Det er næppe sådan, du ser på FBI.
00:30
You probably think of FBI agents
gunning down bad guys like John Dillinger,
gunning down bad guys like John Dillinger,
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Du tænker sikkert på FBI agenter,
der skyder skurke som John Dillinger
der skyder skurke som John Dillinger
00:34
or arresting corrupt politicians.
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eller arrestere korrupte politikere.
00:37
After the 9/11 terrorist attacks,
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Efter 9/11 terror angrebene
00:38
the FBI became less concerned
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blev FBI mindre bekymret
00:40
with gangsters and
crooked elected officials.
crooked elected officials.
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med gangstere og korrupte embedsmænd.
00:42
The new target became terrorists,
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Det nye mål blev terrorister
00:45
and the pursuit of terrorists
has consumed the FBI.
has consumed the FBI.
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og jagten på terrorister
har overtaget FBI.
har overtaget FBI.
00:48
Every year, the Bureau spends
3.3 billion dollars
3.3 billion dollars
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Hvert år bruger bureauet
3,3 milliarder dollars
3,3 milliarder dollars
00:51
on domestic counterterrorism activities.
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på indenrigs terrorbekæmpelse aktiviteter.
00:54
Compare than to just 2.6 billion dollars
combined for organized crime,
combined for organized crime,
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Sammenlignet med 2,6 milliarder dollars
for organiseret kriminalitet,
for organiseret kriminalitet,
00:57
financial fraud, public corruption
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økonomisk bedrageri, offentlig korruption
00:59
and all other types of traditional
criminal activity.
criminal activity.
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og alle andre former for
traditionel kriminalitet.
traditionel kriminalitet.
01:02
I've spent years pouring through
the case files
the case files
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Jeg har brugt årevis på,
at gennemgå sagerne
at gennemgå sagerne
01:04
of terrorism prosecutions in
the United States,
the United States,
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af terror retsforfølgelser i Amerika
01:07
and I've come to
the conclusion that the FBI
the conclusion that the FBI
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og konkluderet at FBI
01:10
is much better at creating terrorists
than it is at catching terrorists.
than it is at catching terrorists.
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er meget bedre til at skabe terrorister,
end til at fange dem.
end til at fange dem.
01:15
In the 14 years since 9/11,
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I de 14 år siden 9/11,
01:17
you can count about six real
terrorist attacks in the United States.
terrorist attacks in the United States.
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kan man finde omkring seks
rigtige terrorangreb i Amerika.
rigtige terrorangreb i Amerika.
01:20
These include the Boston Marathon
bombings in 2013,
bombings in 2013,
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Det inkluderer
terrorangrebet i Boston i 2013
terrorangrebet i Boston i 2013
01:23
as well as failed attacks,
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såvel som fejlede angreb,
01:25
such as the time when
a man named Faisal Shahzad
a man named Faisal Shahzad
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som da en mand ved navn Faisal Shahzadn
01:27
tried to deliver a car bomb
to Times Square.
to Times Square.
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prøvede at aflevere
en bilbombe til Times Square
en bilbombe til Times Square
01:30
In those same 14 years,
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I de samme 14 år,
01:32
the Bureau, however, has bragged
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har bureauet pralet med
01:33
about how it's foiled dozens
of terrorism plots.
of terrorism plots.
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hvordan det har forhindret
adskillige terrorkomplotter.
adskillige terrorkomplotter.
01:36
In all, the FBI has arrested
more than 175 people
more than 175 people
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I alt har FBI arresteret mere end 175 personer
01:41
in aggressive, undercover
conterterrorism stings.
conterterrorism stings.
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i aggressive, undercover
terrorbekæmpelse operationer
terrorbekæmpelse operationer
01:44
These operations, which are usually
led by an informant,
led by an informant,
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Disse operationer,
der som reelt er ledet af en meddeler,
der som reelt er ledet af en meddeler,
01:47
provide the means and opportunity,
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giver midlerne og muligheden,
01:49
and sometimes even the idea,
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og nogle gange selv idéen,
01:51
for mentally ill and
economically desperate people
economically desperate people
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for psykiske syge og
økonomisk desperate mennesker
økonomisk desperate mennesker
01:54
to become what we now term terrorists.
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til at blive hvad vi nu kalder terrorister.
01:58
After 9/11, the FBI was given an edict:
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Efter 9/11 blev FBI givet
en bekendtgørelse:
en bekendtgørelse:
02:00
never again.
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Aldrig mere.
02:01
Never another attack on American soil.
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Aldrig mere et angreb på amerikansk grund.
02:04
FBI agents were told to find terrorists
before they struck.
before they struck.
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FBI agenter fik besked på,
at finde terrorister før de slå til
at finde terrorister før de slå til
02:07
To do this, agents recruited a network
of more than 15,000 informants nationwide,
of more than 15,000 informants nationwide,
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Dertil rekrutterede agenter et netværk
af mere end 15,000 meddelere nationalt,
af mere end 15,000 meddelere nationalt,
02:12
all looking for anyone who
might be dangerous.
might be dangerous.
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der alle ledte efter nogen,
der kunne være farlige
der kunne være farlige
02:15
An informant can earn
100,000 dollars or more
100,000 dollars or more
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En meddeler kan tjene
100,000 dollars eller mere
100,000 dollars eller mere
02:17
for every terrorism case
they bring to the FBI.
they bring to the FBI.
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for hver terrorsag de bringer til FBI
02:20
That's right, the FBI is paying
mostly criminals and con men
mostly criminals and con men
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FBI betaler hovedsaligt
kriminelle og fupmagere
kriminelle og fupmagere
02:24
six figures to spy on communities
in the United States,
in the United States,
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6-cifret beløb for at spionere
på befolkningssamfund i Amerika,
på befolkningssamfund i Amerika,
02:26
but mostly Muslim American communities.
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men for det meste
amerikansk-muslimske samfund.
amerikansk-muslimske samfund.
02:30
These informants nab people like
Abu Khalid Abdul-Latif
Abu Khalid Abdul-Latif
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De meddelere snupper folk som
Abu Khalid Abdul-Latif
Abu Khalid Abdul-Latif
02:33
and Walli Mujahidh.
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og Walli Mujahidh.
02:35
Both are mentally ill.
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Begge er psykisk syge.
02:36
Abdul-Latif had a history of huffing
gasoline and attempting suicide.
gasoline and attempting suicide.
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Abdul-Latif har har sniffet benzin og
prøvet på at begå selvmord.
prøvet på at begå selvmord.
02:40
Mujahidh had schizoaffective disorder,
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Mujahidh har haft
en skizoaffektiv lidelse,
en skizoaffektiv lidelse,
02:42
he had trouble distinguishing between
reality and fantasy.
reality and fantasy.
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han havde svært ved at skelne mellem
virkelighed og fantasi.
virkelighed og fantasi.
02:45
In 2012, the FBI arrested these two men
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I 2012 arresterede FBI de to mænd
02:48
for conspiring to attack a military
recruiting station outside Seattle
recruiting station outside Seattle
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for at konspirere til at angribe
en militær rekrutteringsbase udenfor Seattle,
en militær rekrutteringsbase udenfor Seattle,
02:52
with weapons provided,
of course, by the FBI.
of course, by the FBI.
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med våben forsynet af FBI, selvfølgelig.
02:56
The FBI's informant was Robert Childs,
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FBIs meddeler var Robert Child,
02:59
a convicted rapist and child molester
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en dømt voldtægtsforbryder og børnemisbruger,
03:01
who was paid 90,000 dollars
for his work on the case.
for his work on the case.
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som blev betalt 90,000 dollars
for hans arbejde på sagen.
for hans arbejde på sagen.
03:04
This isn't an outlier.
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Det er ikke et engangstilfælde.
03:05
In 2009, an FBI informant
who had fled Pakistan on murder charges
who had fled Pakistan on murder charges
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En FBI meddeler, som havde flygtet
fra Pakistan tiltalt for mord i 2009,
fra Pakistan tiltalt for mord i 2009,
03:09
led four men in a plot to bomb
synagogues in the Bronx.
synagogues in the Bronx.
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ledte fire mænd i et komplot til,
at bombe synagogerne i Bronx.
at bombe synagogerne i Bronx.
03:13
The lead defendant was James Cromitie,
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Den anklagede var James Cromitie,
03:15
a broke Walmart employee
with a history of mental problems.
with a history of mental problems.
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en fattig Walmart medarbejder
med en historie af psykiske problemer.
med en historie af psykiske problemer.
03:18
And the informant had offered
him 250,000 dollars
him 250,000 dollars
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Og meddeleren havde tilbudt
ham 250,000 dollars,
ham 250,000 dollars,
03:21
if he participated in that plot.
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hvis han deltog i komplottet.
03:23
There are many more examples.
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Der er mange andre eksempler.
03:26
Today, The Intercept
published my new story
published my new story
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I dag, offentliggjorde The Intercept,
min nye historie
min nye historie
03:28
about a counterterrorism sting in Tampa
involving Sami Osmakac,
involving Sami Osmakac,
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om en terrorbekæmpelse operation i Tampa,
involverende Sami Osmakac,
involverende Sami Osmakac,
03:32
a young man who was living
near Tampa, Florida.
near Tampa, Florida.
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en ung mand som levede nær Tampa, Florida.
03:35
Osmakac also had
schizoaffective disorder.
schizoaffective disorder.
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Osmakac havde også en skizoaffektiv lidelse.
03:37
He too was broke,
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Han havde heller ingen penge,
03:38
and he had no connections to
international terrorist groups.
international terrorist groups.
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og han ingen forbindelser til
internationale terrororganisationer.
internationale terrororganisationer.
03:41
Nonetheless,
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Alligevel,
03:42
an FBI informant gave him a job,
handed him money,
handed him money,
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en FBI meddeler gav ham et job,
gav ham penge,
gav ham penge,
03:46
introduced him to an undercover agent
posing as a terrorist,
posing as a terrorist,
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introducerede ham til en undercover agent
der udgav sig for en terrorist,
der udgav sig for en terrorist,
03:49
and lured him in a plot
to bomb an Irish bar.
to bomb an Irish bar.
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og lokkede ham ind i et komplot,
til at bombe en irsk bar.
til at bombe en irsk bar.
03:52
But here's what's interesting:
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Men her er det interessante:
03:54
The lead undercover agent --
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Den ledende undercover agent --
03:56
you can see him in this picture
with his face blurred --
with his face blurred --
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du kan se ham her i billedet
med hans ansigt sløret --
med hans ansigt sløret --
03:58
would go back to the Tampa field office
with his recording equipment on.
with his recording equipment on.
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tog tilbage til feltkontoret i Tampa
med hans optageudstyr på.
med hans optageudstyr på.
04:02
Behind closed doors,
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Bag lukkede døre,
04:03
FBI agents admitted that what
they were doing was farcical.
they were doing was farcical.
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indrømmede FBI agenter,
at hvad de lavede var en farce.
at hvad de lavede var en farce.
04:06
A federal judge doesn't want you
to hear about these conversations.
to hear about these conversations.
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En føderal dommer vil ikke have,
at du hører om de samtaler.
at du hører om de samtaler.
04:10
He sealed the transcripts and placed
them under a protective order
them under a protective order
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Han forseglede transskriptionerne
og lagde dem under beskyttelse
og lagde dem under beskyttelse
04:13
in an attempt to prevent someone like me
from doing something like this.
from doing something like this.
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i forsøg på at stoppe nogen som mig,
i at gøre noget som det her.
i at gøre noget som det her.
04:17
Behind closed doors, the lead agent,
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Bag lukkede døre beskrev den ledende agent,
04:19
the squad supervisor,
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den tilsynsførende,
04:20
described their would-be terrorist
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deres vordende terrorister
04:22
as a "retarded fool who didn't have
a pot to piss in."
a pot to piss in."
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som "ludfattige retarderede idioter."
04:25
They described his terrorist ambitions
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De beskrev hans terrorist ambitioner
04:27
as wishy-washy and
a pipe dream scenario.
a pipe dream scenario.
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som pis-pladder og ønsketænkning.
04:30
But that didn't stop the FBI.
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Men det stoppede ikke FBI.
04:32
They provided Sami Osmakac
everything he needed.
everything he needed.
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De forsynede Sami Osmakac med alt,
hvad han havde brug for.
hvad han havde brug for.
04:36
They gave him a car bomb,
they gave him an AK-47,
they gave him an AK-47,
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De gav ham en bilbombe,
de gav ham en AK-47,
de gav ham en AK-47,
04:39
they helped him make a so-called
martyrdom video,
martyrdom video,
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de hjalp ham med,
at lave en såkaldt martyrvideo
at lave en såkaldt martyrvideo
04:42
and they even gave
him money for a taxi cab
him money for a taxi cab
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og de gav ham endda penge til en taxi,
04:44
so that he could get to where
they wanted him to go.
they wanted him to go.
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så han kunne tage hen,
hvor de ville have ham til.
hvor de ville have ham til.
04:48
As they were working the sting,
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Mens de arbejdede på sagen,
04:49
the squad supervisor tells his agents
he wanted a Hollywood ending.
he wanted a Hollywood ending.
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fortæller den tilsynsførende sine agenter,
at han ønsker en Hollywood slutning.
at han ønsker en Hollywood slutning.
04:54
And he got a Hollywood ending.
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Og han fik en Hollywood slutning.
04:57
When Sami Osmakac attempted
to deliver what he thought
to deliver what he thought
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Da Sami Osmakac prøvede,
at aflevere hvad han troede
at aflevere hvad han troede
04:59
was a car bomb,
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var en bilbombe,
05:00
he was arrested, convicted and
sentenced to 40 years in prison.
sentenced to 40 years in prison.
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blev han arresteret, dømt og
straffet med 40 år i fængsel.
straffet med 40 år i fængsel.
05:05
Sami Osmakac isn't alone.
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Sami Osmakac er ikke den alene.
05:08
He's one of more than
175 so-called terrorists,
175 so-called terrorists,
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Han er én af mere end
175 såkaldte terrorister,
175 såkaldte terrorister,
05:10
for whom the FBI has created
Hollywood endings.
Hollywood endings.
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som FBI har skabt Hollywood slutninger for.
05:15
U.S. government officials call this
the War on Terror.
the War on Terror.
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Amerikanske myndigheder kalder det
Krigen mod Terror.
Krigen mod Terror.
05:18
It's really just theater,
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Men det er virkeligt bare et teater,
05:20
a national security theater,
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et nationalt sikkerhedsteater,
05:23
with mentally ill men like Sami Osmakac
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med psykiske syge personer som Sami Osmakac
05:25
unwitting actors in a
carefully choreographed production
carefully choreographed production
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Intetanende aktører i en forsigtig
koreograferet produktion
koreograferet produktion
05:28
brought to you by the FBI.
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bragt til dig af FBI.
05:30
Thank you.
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Tak.
05:31
(Applause)
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(Klapsalve)
05:41
Tom Rielly: So, those are some
pretty strong accusations,
pretty strong accusations,
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Tom Rielly: Det er nogle seriøse anklager,
05:44
pretty strong charges.
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meget seriøse beskyldninger.
05:47
How can you back this up?
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Hvordan har du belæg for det her?
05:48
Trevor Aaronson: My research began in 2010
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Trevor Aaronson: Min forskning begyndte i 2010
05:50
when I received a grant from the
Investigative Reporting Program
Investigative Reporting Program
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da jeg modtog et stipendium fra
Investigative Reporting Program
Investigative Reporting Program
05:53
at U.C. Berkeley,
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på U.C. Berkeley,
05:54
and a research assistant and I
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og en forskningsassistent og jeg
05:56
put together a database
of all terrorism prosecutions
of all terrorism prosecutions
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sammensatte en database af alle
terrorretsforfølgelser
terrorretsforfølgelser
05:58
at the time during
the first decade after 9/11.
the first decade after 9/11.
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på tidspunktet af det første årti efter 9/11.
06:01
And we used the court file
to find out whether
to find out whether
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Og vi brugte rettens filer til,
at finde ud af om
at finde ud af om
06:04
the defendants had any connections
to international terrorist groups,
to international terrorist groups,
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de tiltalte havde nogle forbindelser
til internationale terrorist grupper,
til internationale terrorist grupper,
06:07
whether an informant was used,
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om en meddeler var brugt
06:09
and whether the informant
played the role of an agent provocateur
played the role of an agent provocateur
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og om meddeleren havde spillet rollen
som en agent provocateur
som en agent provocateur
06:12
by providing the means and opportunity.
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ved at forsyne midlerne og muligheden.
06:14
And we submitted that to the FBI
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Og vi indsendte det til FBI
06:15
and we asked them to respond
to our database.
to our database.
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og vi bad dem om,
at reagere på vores database.
at reagere på vores database.
06:18
If they believed there were any errors,
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Hvis de mente, der var nogle fejl,
06:20
we asked them to tell us what they were
and we'd go back and check
and we'd go back and check
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vi bad dem om, at fortælle os hvilke
og vi ville tjekke op på det
og vi ville tjekke op på det
06:23
and they never challenged any
of our findings.
of our findings.
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og de satte aldrig spørgsmål
til vores resultater.
til vores resultater.
06:25
Later, I used that data
in a magazine article
in a magazine article
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Senere brugte jeg dataene i en artikel
06:27
and later in my book,
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og senere i min bog,
06:28
and on appearances on places
like CBS and NPR,
like CBS and NPR,
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og på optrædener hos CBS og NPR,
06:31
they were offered that opportunity again
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de blev tilbudt muligheden igen
06:33
to say, "Trevor Aaronson's
findings are wrong."
findings are wrong."
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til at sige,
"Trevor Aaronsons resultater er forkerte."
"Trevor Aaronsons resultater er forkerte."
06:35
And they've never
come forward and said,
come forward and said,
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Og de er aldrig kommet frem og sagt,
06:37
"These are the problems
with those findings."
with those findings."
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"Det her er problemerne med resultaterne."
06:39
So the data has since been used
by groups like Human Rights Watch
by groups like Human Rights Watch
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Dataene er sidenhen blevet brugt af
grupper som Human Rights Watch
grupper som Human Rights Watch
06:42
on its recent report on
these types of sting operations.
these types of sting operations.
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i deres seneste rapport om de
former for undercover operationer
former for undercover operationer
06:45
And so far, the FBI has never
really responded
really responded
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Indtil videre har FBI
aldrig rigtigt reageret
aldrig rigtigt reageret
06:47
to these charges that it's really
not catching terrorists
not catching terrorists
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til de beskyldninger,
at de ikke fanger terrorister
at de ikke fanger terrorister
06:51
so much as it's catching
mentally ill people
mentally ill people
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i det omfang de fanger
psykisk syge personer
psykisk syge personer
06:53
that it can dress up as terrorists
in these types of sting operations.
in these types of sting operations.
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som de kan klæde ud som
terrorister i undercover operationer.
terrorister i undercover operationer.
06:57
TR: So The Intercept is that new
investigative journalism website,
investigative journalism website,
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TR: The Intercept er den der nye
undersøgende journalistik hjemmeside,
undersøgende journalistik hjemmeside,
07:01
that's cofounded by Glenn Greenwald.
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der er medstiftet af Gleen Greenwald.
07:03
Tell us about your article
and why there.
and why there.
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Fortæl os om din artikel og hvorfor der.
07:06
TA: The Intercept seemed to be
the most logical place for this
the most logical place for this
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TA: The Intercept virkede som det mest
logiske sted for det her
logiske sted for det her
07:09
because my article is
really leveraging the fact that
really leveraging the fact that
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fordi min artikel
virkelig løfter den kendsgerning at
virkelig løfter den kendsgerning at
07:12
a source had leaked to me
transcripts of these
transcripts of these
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en kilde har lækket
en transskription til mig af
en transskription til mig af
07:15
private FBI conversations
that a federal judge had sealed
that a federal judge had sealed
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private FBI samtaler,
som en føderal dommer har forsejlet
som en føderal dommer har forsejlet
07:18
based on the government's claim
that their release
that their release
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baseret på regeringens påstand,
at deres offentliggørelse
at deres offentliggørelse
07:20
would irreparably damage
the U.S. government's
the U.S. government's
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ville uoprettelig skade
den amerikanske regerings
den amerikanske regerings
07:22
law enforcement strategy.
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strategi til at håndhæve loven.
07:24
So a place like The Intercept
was set up to protect journalists
was set up to protect journalists
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The Intercept var lavet for,
at beskytte journalister
at beskytte journalister
07:27
and publish their work
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og offentliggøre deres arbejde
07:28
when they're dealing with
very sensitive matters like this.
very sensitive matters like this.
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når de har at gøre med
sensitive områder som det her.
sensitive områder som det her.
07:31
So my story in The Intercept,
which was just published today,
which was just published today,
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Min historie i The Intercept,
som var offentliggjort i dag
som var offentliggjort i dag
07:34
tells the story of how Sami Osmakac
was set up in this FBI sting
was set up in this FBI sting
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fortæller historien om hvordan
Sami Osmakac blev bondefanget af FBI
Sami Osmakac blev bondefanget af FBI
07:37
and goes into much greater detail.
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og går i meget større detaljer.
07:39
In this talk, I could only
highlight the things that they said,
highlight the things that they said,
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I det her oplæg har jeg kun
fremhævet de ting som de har sag
fremhævet de ting som de har sag
07:42
such as calling him a "retarded fool."
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som det at kalde ham et "retarderet fjols."
07:44
But it was much more elaborate,
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Men det var meget mere omstændigt,
07:45
they went to great lengths
to put money in Sami Osmakac's hands,
to put money in Sami Osmakac's hands,
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de gik ikke af vejen for,
at putte penge i Sami Osmakacs hænder
at putte penge i Sami Osmakacs hænder
07:49
which he then used to purchase weapons
from the undercover agent.
from the undercover agent.
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som han derefter brugte til,
at købe våben fra undercover agenten.
at købe våben fra undercover agenten.
07:52
When he went to trial,
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Da han skulle for retten,
07:53
the central piece of evidence
was that he paid for these weapons,
was that he paid for these weapons,
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var det centrale stykke bevis,
at han havde betalt for de våben
at han havde betalt for de våben
07:56
when in truth, these transcripts show
how the FBI orchestrated
how the FBI orchestrated
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når transskriptionerne faktisk viser,
hvordan FBI iscenesatte
hvordan FBI iscenesatte
07:59
someone who was essentially
mentally ill and broke
mentally ill and broke
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nogen som var psykisk syg og fattig
08:01
to get money to then
pay for weapons
pay for weapons
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til at få fat i penge for,
at betale for våben
at betale for våben
08:03
that they could then charge him
in a conspiracy for.
in a conspiracy for.
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så de kunne anklage ham for konspiration.
08:06
TR: One final question.
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TR: Et sidste spørgsmål.
08:08
Less than 10 days ago,
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Mindre end 10 dage siden,
08:10
the FBI arrested some potential
ISIS suspects in Brooklyn,
ISIS suspects in Brooklyn,
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arresterede FBI nogle mulige
ISIS mistænkte i Brooklyn,
ISIS mistænkte i Brooklyn,
08:13
saying that they might
be headed to Syria,
be headed to Syria,
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efter sigende,
at de måske var på vej til Syrien,
at de måske var på vej til Syrien,
08:16
and were those real,
or examples of more of the same?
or examples of more of the same?
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og var de virkelige eller
flere eksempler af det samme?
flere eksempler af det samme?
08:19
TA: Well so far, we only know
what's come out in the court file,
what's come out in the court file,
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TA: For så vidt, ved vi kun,
hvad der dukker op i rettens filer,
hvad der dukker op i rettens filer,
08:22
but they seem to suggest it's another
example of the same.
example of the same.
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men det ser ud til,
at være et eksempel på det samme.
at være et eksempel på det samme.
08:25
These types of sting operations
have moved from flavor to flavor.
have moved from flavor to flavor.
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De her former for operationer
har forandret sig undervejs
har forandret sig undervejs
08:28
So initially it was al Qaeda plots,
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Oprindeligt var det al Qaeda komplotter
08:30
and now the Islamic State
is the current flavor.
is the current flavor.
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og nu er det Islamisk stat.
08:33
What's worth noting about that case
is that the three men that were charged
is that the three men that were charged
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Hvad der er værd at notere om sagen,
er, at de tre mænd som var tiltalt
er, at de tre mænd som var tiltalt
08:36
only began the plot to go to Syria
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kun planlagde at tage til Syrien
08:38
after the introduction
of the FBI informant,
of the FBI informant,
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efter introduktionen af FBI meddeleren,
08:40
and in fact, the FBI informant had helped
them with the travel documents
them with the travel documents
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og faktisk havde FBI meddeleren
hjulpet dem med rejse dokumenter
hjulpet dem med rejse dokumenter
08:44
that they needed.
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de skulle bruge.
08:45
In kind of a comical turn
in that particular case,
in that particular case,
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Som et slags komisk tvist i den her sag,
08:47
one of the defendant's mother
had found out
had found out
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har en af de tiltaltes mødre fundet ud af,
08:49
that he was interested in going to Syria
and had hid his passport.
and had hid his passport.
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at han var interesseret i,
at tage til Syrien og skjulte hans pas.
at tage til Syrien og skjulte hans pas.
08:53
So it's unclear that even if he had
showed up at the airport,
showed up at the airport,
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Det er uklart om hvis
han havde mødt op ved lufthavnen
han havde mødt op ved lufthavnen
08:55
that he ever could have gone anywhere.
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havde været i stand til at rejse.
08:57
So yes, there are people who might
be interested in joining the Islamic State
be interested in joining the Islamic State
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Så ja, der er nogen der måske er
interesseret i at tilslutte sig Islamisk stat
interesseret i at tilslutte sig Islamisk stat
09:01
in the United States,
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i Amerika,
09:02
and those are people that the United
States government should be looking at
States government should be looking at
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og det er de mennesker som
den amerikanske regering skulle kigge på
den amerikanske regering skulle kigge på
09:06
to see if they're interested
in violence here.
in violence here.
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for at se om de vil udøve vold her.
09:08
In this particular case, given
the evidence that's so far come out,
the evidence that's so far come out,
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I den har sag har beviserne såfremt
09:11
it suggests the FBI made
it possible for these guys
it possible for these guys
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tydet på at FBI
gjorde det muligt for dem
gjorde det muligt for dem
09:13
to move along in a plan to go to Syria
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at fremsætte en plan om,
at tage til Syrien
at tage til Syrien
09:15
when they were never close
to that in the first place.
to that in the first place.
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når de aldrig var tæt på det overhovedet.
09:18
TR: Thanks a lot, that's amazing.
TA: Thank you.
TA: Thank you.
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TR: Mange tak, det er utroligt.
TA: Tak.
TA: Tak.
09:20
(Applause)
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(Klapsalve)
ABOUT THE SPEAKER
Trevor Aaronson - JournalistAn investigative journalist who reports on the FBI’s misuse of informants in counterterrorism operations, Trevor Aaronson asks the question: Is the United States catching terrorists or creating them?
Why you should listen
Trevor Aaronson is the executive director of the Florida Center for Investigative Reporting and the author of The Terror Factory: Inside the FBI’s Manufactured War on Terrorism. In 2014 he reported and produced "Informants," a one-hour documentary for Al Jazeera Media Network about the FBI’s counterterrorism program. In 2015 he published "To Catch the Devil" with Foreign Policy and "The Sting: How the FBI Created a Terrorist" with The Intercept, both about his work on the FBI's counterterrorism methods.
Trevor Aaronson | Speaker | TED.com