TED Salon Doha Debates
Eve Pearlman: How to lead a conversation between people who disagree
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In a world deeply divided, how do we have hard conversations with nuance, curiosity, respect? Veteran reporter Eve Pearlman introduces "dialogue journalism": a project where journalists go to the heart of social and political divides to support discussions between people who disagree. See what happened when a group that would have never otherwise met -- 25 liberals from California and 25 conservatives from Alabama -- gathered to talk about contentious issues. "Real connection across difference: this is a salve that our democracy sorely needs," Pearlman says.
Eve Pearlman - Journalist
Eve Pearlman is committed to the work of reinventing and reinvigorating journalistic practice. Full bio
Eve Pearlman is committed to the work of reinventing and reinvigorating journalistic practice. Full bio
Double-click the English transcript below to play the video.
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So in the run-up to the 2016 election,
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I was, like most of us,
watching the rise in discord and vitriol
watching the rise in discord and vitriol
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and nastiness in our public spaces.
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It was this crazy uptick in polarization.
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It was both disheartening and distressing.
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And so I started thinking,
with a fellow journalist, Jeremy Hay,
with a fellow journalist, Jeremy Hay,
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about how we might practice
our craft differently.
our craft differently.
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How we might go to the heart of divides,
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to places of conflict,
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like journalists always have,
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but then, once there,
do something really different.
do something really different.
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We knew we wanted to take
the core tools of our craft --
the core tools of our craft --
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careful vetting of information,
diligent research, curiosity,
diligent research, curiosity,
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a commitment to serving the public good --
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to serving our democracy --
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and do something new.
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And so we mapped out this process,
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what we call dialogue journalism,
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for going to the heart
of social and political divides,
of social and political divides,
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and then, once there, building
journalism-supported conversations
journalism-supported conversations
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between people on opposite sides
of polarizing issues.
of polarizing issues.
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But how actually to do this
in a world that's so divided,
in a world that's so divided,
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so deeply divided --
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when we live in a world
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in which cousins and aunts and uncles
can't talk to one another,
can't talk to one another,
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when we often live in separate
and distinct news ecosystems,
and distinct news ecosystems,
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and when we reflexively
and habitually malign and dismiss
and habitually malign and dismiss
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those with whom we disagree?
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But we wanted to try.
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And so right after the 2016 election,
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in that time between the election
and the inauguration,
and the inauguration,
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we partnered with the Alabama Media Group
to do something really different.
to do something really different.
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We brought 25 Trump supporters
from Alabama together
from Alabama together
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in conversation with
25 Clinton supporters from California.
25 Clinton supporters from California.
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And we brought them together
in a closed, moderated Facebook group
in a closed, moderated Facebook group
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that we kept open for a month.
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What we wanted to do
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was to give them a place to engage
with genuine curiosity and openness.
with genuine curiosity and openness.
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And we wanted to support them
in building relationships,
in building relationships,
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not just with each other
but with us as journalists.
but with us as journalists.
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And then we wanted to supply
facts and information --
facts and information --
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facts and information that they could
actually receive and process
actually receive and process
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and use to undergird their conversations.
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And so as a prelude to this conversation,
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the first step in what we call
dialogue journalism,
dialogue journalism,
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we asked what they thought
the other side thought of them.
the other side thought of them.
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So when we asked
the Trump supporters from Alabama
the Trump supporters from Alabama
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what they thought the Clinton supporters
in California thought of them,
in California thought of them,
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this is some of what they said.
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"They think we are religious
Bible thumpers."
Bible thumpers."
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"That we're backwards
and hickish, and stupid."
and hickish, and stupid."
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"They think that we all have
Confederate flags in our yards,
Confederate flags in our yards,
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that we're racist
and sexist and uneducated."
and sexist and uneducated."
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"They think we're barefoot and pregnant,
with dirt driveways."
with dirt driveways."
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"And they think we're all prissy butts
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and that we walk around in hoop skirts
with cotton fields in the background."
with cotton fields in the background."
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And then we asked that same question
of the Californians:
of the Californians:
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"What do you think
the Alabamians think about you?"
the Alabamians think about you?"
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And they said this:
"That we're crazy, liberal Californians."
"That we're crazy, liberal Californians."
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"That we're not patriotic."
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"We're snobby and we're elitist."
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"We're godless and we're permissive
with our children."
with our children."
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"And that we're focused
on our careers, not our family."
on our careers, not our family."
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"That we're elitist,
pie-in-the-sky intellectuals,
pie-in-the-sky intellectuals,
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rich people, Whole Foods-eating,
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very out of touch."
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So by asking questions like this
at the start of every conversation
at the start of every conversation
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and by identifying
and sharing stereotypes,
and sharing stereotypes,
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we find that people --
people on all sides --
people on all sides --
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begin to see the simplistic and often
mean-spirited caricatures they carry.
mean-spirited caricatures they carry.
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And in that --
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after that, we can move
into a process of genuine conversation.
into a process of genuine conversation.
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So in the two years since that launch --
California/Alabama Project --
California/Alabama Project --
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we've gone on to host
dialogues and partnerships
dialogues and partnerships
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with media organizations
across the country.
across the country.
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And they've been about
some of our most contentious issues:
some of our most contentious issues:
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guns, immigration, race, education.
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And what we found,
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remarkably,
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is that real dialogue is in fact possible.
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And that when given a chance
and structure around doing so,
and structure around doing so,
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many, not all,
but many of our fellow citizens
but many of our fellow citizens
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are eager to engage with the other.
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Too often journalists
have sharpened divides
have sharpened divides
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in the name of drama or readership
or in service to our own views.
or in service to our own views.
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And too often we've gone to each side
quoting a partisan voice on one side
quoting a partisan voice on one side
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and a partisan voice on the other
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with a telling anecdotal lead
and a pithy final quote,
and a pithy final quote,
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all of which readers
are keen to mine for bias.
are keen to mine for bias.
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But our dialogue-based process
has a slower pace and a different center.
has a slower pace and a different center.
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And our work is guided by the principle
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that dialogue across difference
is essential to a functioning democracy,
is essential to a functioning democracy,
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and that journalism and journalists
have a multifaceted role to play
have a multifaceted role to play
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in supporting that.
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So how do we work?
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At every stage,
we're as transparent as possible
we're as transparent as possible
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about our methods and our motives.
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At every stage, we take time
to answer people's questions --
to answer people's questions --
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explain why we're doing what we're doing.
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We tell people that it's not a trap:
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no one's there to tell you you're stupid,
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no one's there to tell you
your experience doesn't matter.
your experience doesn't matter.
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And we always ask
for a really different sort of behavior,
for a really different sort of behavior,
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a repatterning away
from the reflexive name-calling,
from the reflexive name-calling,
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so entrenched in our discourse
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that most of us, on all sides,
don't even notice it anymore.
don't even notice it anymore.
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So people often come
into our conversations a bit angrily.
into our conversations a bit angrily.
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They say things like,
"How can you believe X?"
"How can you believe X?"
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and "How can you read Y?"
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and "Can you believe that this happened?"
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But generally, in this miracle
that delights us every time,
that delights us every time,
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people begin to introduce themselves.
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And they begin to explain
who they are and where they come from,
who they are and where they come from,
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and they begin to ask
questions of one another.
questions of one another.
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And slowly, over time, people circle back
again and again to difficult topics,
again and again to difficult topics,
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each time with a little more empathy,
a little more nuance,
a little more nuance,
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a little more curiosity.
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And our journalists and moderators
work really hard to support this
work really hard to support this
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because it's not a debate,
it's not a battle,
it's not a battle,
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it's not a Sunday morning talk show.
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It's not the flinging of talking points.
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It's not the stacking of memes and gifs
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or articles with headlines
that prove a point.
that prove a point.
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And it's not about scoring
political victories with question traps.
political victories with question traps.
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So what we've learned is that our state
of discord is bad for everyone.
of discord is bad for everyone.
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It is a deeply unhappy state of being.
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And people tell us this again and again.
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They say they appreciate the chance
to engage respectfully,
to engage respectfully,
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with curiosity and with openness,
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and that they're glad and relieved
for a chance to put down their arms.
for a chance to put down their arms.
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And so we do our work in direct challenge
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to the political climate
in our country right now,
in our country right now,
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and we do it knowing
that it is difficult, challenging work
that it is difficult, challenging work
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to hold and support people
in opposing backgrounds in conversation.
in opposing backgrounds in conversation.
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And we do it knowing
democracy depends on our ability
democracy depends on our ability
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to address our shared problems together.
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And we do this work by putting community
at the heart of our journalistic process,
at the heart of our journalistic process,
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by putting our egos to the side
to listen first, to listen deeply,
to listen first, to listen deeply,
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to listen around
and through our own biases,
and through our own biases,
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our own habits of thought,
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and to support others in doing the same.
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And we do this work
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knowing that journalism
as an institution is struggling,
as an institution is struggling,
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and that it has always had a role to play
and will continue to have a role to play
and will continue to have a role to play
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in supporting the exchange
of ideas and views.
of ideas and views.
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For many of the participants
in our groups,
in our groups,
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there are lasting reverberations.
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Many people have become Facebook friends
and in-real-life friends too,
and in-real-life friends too,
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across political lines.
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After we closed that first
Trump/Clinton project,
Trump/Clinton project,
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about two-thirds of the women went on
to form their own Facebook group
to form their own Facebook group
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and they chose a moderator from each state
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and they continue to talk
about difficult and challenging issues.
about difficult and challenging issues.
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People tell us again and again
that they're grateful for the opportunity
that they're grateful for the opportunity
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to be a part of this work,
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grateful to know that people
on the other side aren't crazy,
on the other side aren't crazy,
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grateful that they've had a chance
to connect with people
to connect with people
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they wouldn't have otherwise talked to.
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A lot of what we've seen and learned,
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despite the fact that we call
ourselves Spaceship Media,
ourselves Spaceship Media,
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is not at all rocket science.
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If you call people names,
if you label them, if you insult them,
if you label them, if you insult them,
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they are not inclined to listen to you.
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Snark doesn't help, shame doesn't help,
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condescension doesn't help.
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Genuine communication
takes practice and effort
takes practice and effort
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and restraint and self-awareness.
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There isn't an algorithm
to solve where we are.
to solve where we are.
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Because real human connection
is in fact real human connection.
is in fact real human connection.
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So lead with curiosity,
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emphasize discussion not debate,
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get out of your silo,
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because real connection
across difference ...
across difference ...
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this is a salve
that our democracy sorely needs.
that our democracy sorely needs.
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Thank you.
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(Applause)
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ABOUT THE SPEAKER
Eve Pearlman - JournalistEve Pearlman is committed to the work of reinventing and reinvigorating journalistic practice.
Why you should listen
Eve Pearlman is a journalistic innovator, public speaker, writer and thought leader. A lifelong journalist with a deep commitment to serving and building communities, she cofounded Spaceship Media in 2016 with a mission to reduce polarization, build communities and restore trust in journalism.
Earlier in her career, Pearlman was a reporter, blogger, columnist and social media strategist. She is the veteran of two startups: Patch, AOL's effort at serving local news markets; and State, a London-based social media platform connecting people around shared interests and views. She holds a bachelor's from Cornell University and a master's in journalism from Northwestern University.
Eve Pearlman | Speaker | TED.com