TEDGlobal 2011
Nadia Al-Sakkaf: See Yemen through my eyes
Nadia Al-Sakkaf ：我看也门
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也门政坛动荡依旧。《也门时报》主编Nadia Al-Sakkaf作客TEDGlobal，与主持人Pat Mitchell畅谈也门。Al-Sakkaf的报纸是一份独立的英文报纸。她的报纸在多个意义上都十分重要——报道新闻；提供观察也门的新视角；树立也门女性在工作和变革中与男性同等重要的新形象。
Nadia Al-Sakkaf - Journalist
Nadia Al-Sakkaf is the editor-in-chief of the Yemen Times, the most widely read English-language newspaper in Yemen. Full bio
Nadia Al-Sakkaf is the editor-in-chief of the Yemen Times, the most widely read English-language newspaper in Yemen. Full bio
Double-click the English transcript below to play the video.
00:15
Pat Mitchell: You have brought us images from the Yemen Times.
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Pat Mitchell (以下简称PM) : 你从《也门时报》给我们带来了照片。
00:19
And take us through those,
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给我们讲讲这些照片，
00:21
and introduce us to another Yemen.
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给我们介绍一个不一样的也门。
00:25
Nadia Al-Sakkaf: Well, I'm glad to be here.
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Nadia Al-Sakkaf (以下简称NA) : 好的。我很高兴能够来到这儿。
00:27
And I would like to share with you all
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我很愿意很你们所有人分享
00:29
some of the pictures that are happening today in Yemen.
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一些纪录也门今天的照片。
00:32
This picture shows a revolution
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这幅照片展示的是一场
00:34
started by women,
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由女性发起的革命。
00:36
and it shows women and men
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照片中女性和男性共同
00:39
leading a mixed protest.
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领导一次抗议。
00:41
The other picture
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另一幅图片
00:43
is the popularity of the real need for change.
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展示了人们真切要求变革的强烈呼声。
00:47
So many people are there.
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许多人都在那儿。
00:49
The intensity of the upspring.
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抗议非常激烈。
00:53
This picture shows that the revolution
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这幅图片显示，革命已经帮助
00:55
has allowed opportunities for training,
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也门女性取得一些
00:57
for education.
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教育、培训的机会。
00:59
These women are learning about first aid
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这些女性在学习急救知识，
01:01
and their rights according to the constitution.
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以及宪法赋予她们的权利。
01:04
I love this picture.
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我喜欢这张照片。
01:06
I just wanted to show
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我只是想展示，
01:08
that over 60 percent of the Yemeni population
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也门60%以上的人口
01:10
are 15 years and below.
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都在15岁及15岁以下。
01:12
And they were excluded from decision-making,
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过去他们与决策制定无缘，
01:14
and now they are in the forefront of the news,
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现在他们高举着旗子，
01:17
raising the flag.
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走在新闻的前沿。
01:19
English --
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英语——
01:21
you will see, this is jeans
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你可以看到，照片中的人穿着牛仔裤
01:23
and tights,
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和紧身衣，
01:25
and an English expression --
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身上贴着英文标语——
01:28
the ability to share with the world
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也门人能够和全世界分享
01:31
what is going on in our own country.
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在自己的国家都发生些什么。
01:34
And expression also,
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一些标语也
01:37
it has brought talents.
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让有才能的人崭露头角。
01:39
Yemenis are using cartoons
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也门人通过卡通、
01:41
and art,
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艺术、
01:44
paintings, comics,
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绘画和漫画，
01:46
to tell the world and each other
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向世界及同胞们讲述
01:48
about what's going on.
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发生在也门的事。
01:50
Obviously, there's always the dark side of it.
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当然，凡事都有两面。
01:53
And this is just one of the less-gruesome pictures
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一些照片显示了我们为革命必须付出的代价。
01:56
of the revolution
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这张照片只是其中
01:58
and the cost that we have to pay.
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不那么可怕的一张。
02:00
The solidarity
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来自也门各地的成千上万的也门人
02:02
of millions of Yemenis across the country
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团结一致，
02:04
just demanding the one thing.
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只为革命。
02:06
And finally, lots of people are saying
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最后这张。许多人都说
02:08
that Yemen's revolution
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也门的革命
02:10
is going to break the country.
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会把这个国家拖垮的。
02:12
Is it going to be so many different countries?
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也门会不会分裂成几个国家？
02:14
Is it going to be another Somalia?
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会不会成为索马里第二？
02:16
But we want to tell the world that, no,
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但我们想要告诉世界，不，
02:18
under the one flag, we'll still remain as Yemeni people.
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在也门的国旗下，我们永远是也门人。
02:22
PM: Thank you for those images, Nadia.
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PM: 谢谢你带给我们这些图片，Naida。
02:25
And they do, in many ways,
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它们确实，在许多方面，
02:27
tell a different story
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都给我们讲述了一个不一样的也门，
02:29
than the story of Yemen,
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一个和我们经常在新闻里看到的
02:31
the one that is often in the news.
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不一样的也门。
02:33
And yet, you yourself
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事实上，你自己
02:35
defy all those characterizations.
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就摒弃了各种传统特征。
02:37
So let's talk about the personal story for a moment.
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我们就来谈谈你的个人故事。
02:41
Your father is murdered.
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你的父亲是被杀害的。
02:44
The Yemen Times already has
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作为一份独立的英文报纸，
02:46
a strong reputation in Yemen
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《也门时报》在也门
02:49
as an independent English language newspaper.
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已经树立了良好的声誉。
02:53
How did you then
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你当时是怎样
02:55
make the decision and assume the responsibilities
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做出接手报纸的
02:57
of running a newspaper,
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决定的，
02:59
especially in such times of conflict?
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特别是在当时冲突严重的时期？
03:02
NA: Well, let me first warn you
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NA: 首先我必须说
03:04
that I'm not the traditional Yemeni girl.
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我不是传统型的也门女孩儿。
03:07
I've guessed you've already noticed this by now.
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我猜你们已经注意到了。
03:09
(Laughter)
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（笑）
03:11
In Yemen, most women are veiled
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在也门，大多数女性都戴着面纱，
03:13
and they are sitting behind doors
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坐在门后，
03:16
and not very much part of the public life.
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无缘公众生活。
03:18
But there's so much potential.
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但这其中潜力无穷。
03:20
I wish I could show you my Yemen.
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我希望我能给你展示我的也门。
03:23
I wish you could see
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我希望你能够
03:25
Yemen through my eyes.
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通过我的眼睛来看也门。
03:27
Then you would know
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你会有
03:29
that there's so much to it.
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许许多多的发现。
03:31
And I was privileged because I was born into a family,
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我很幸运，因为在我出生的家庭，
03:34
my father would always encourage the boys and the girls.
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父亲总是不停激励男孩女孩们。
03:38
He would say we are equal.
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他说我们是平等的。
03:41
And he was such an extraordinary man.
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他是如此非凡的一个人。
03:44
And even my mother -- I owe it to my family.
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还有我的母亲——我的故事——
03:47
A story:
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归功于我的家人。
03:49
I studied in India.
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我在印度上的大学。
03:51
And in my third year, I started becoming confused
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在我大三的时候，我开始感到非常困惑，
03:54
because I was Yemeni,
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因为我是也门人，
03:56
but I was also mixing up
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但我也总和许多
03:58
with a lot of my friends in college.
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大学朋友在一起。
04:00
And I went back home and I said,
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回家后我说，
04:03
"Daddy, I don't know who I am.
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“爸爸，我不知道我是谁。
04:05
I'm not a Yemeni; I'm not an Indian."
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我不是也门人，我也不是印度人。”
04:07
And he said, "You are the bridge."
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他回答说，“你是连接两者的桥梁。”
04:09
And that is something I will keep in my heart forever.
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我会永远记住他的话。
04:13
So since then I've been the bridge,
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从此以后我就是桥梁，
04:15
and a lot of people have walked over me.
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许多人都从我身上走过。
04:18
PM: I don't think so. (Laughter)
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PM: 我可不这么想。
04:21
NA: But it just helps tell
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NA: 这帮助人们了解
04:24
that some people are change agents
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一些人在社会中
04:26
in the society.
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是变革的推动者。
04:28
And when I became editor-in-chief
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当我成为主编的时候，
04:30
after my brother actually --
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事实上是在我哥哥之后——
04:32
my father passed away in 1999,
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我父亲在1999年去世，
04:34
and then my brother until 2005 --
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之后到2005年一直是我哥哥作主编——
04:36
and everybody was betting that I will not be able to do it.
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所有人都打赌说，我做不下来。
04:39
"What's this young girl coming in and showing off
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“这个年轻的女孩儿想干吗？跑过来显摆，
04:42
because it's her family business," or something.
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就因为这是她家的报纸，”之类的话。
04:45
It was very hard at first.
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刚开始非常困难。
04:47
I didn't want to clash with people.
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我不想和别人发生冲突。
04:49
But with all due respect
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但是恕我直言，
04:51
to all the men, and the older men especially,
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男人们，特别是年长的男人，
04:54
they did not want me around.
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他们不想看到我。
04:57
It was very hard, you know,
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你知道，要树立我的权威
04:59
to impose my authority.
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非常得困难。
05:03
But a woman's got to do what a woman's got to do.
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但是一个女人必须要做一个女人需要做的事。
05:07
(Applause)
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（掌声）
05:12
And in the first year,
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第一年中，
05:14
I had to fire half of the men.
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我不得不解雇了报社里一半的男人。
05:16
(Laughter)
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（笑）
05:18
(Applause)
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（掌声）
05:22
Brought in more women.
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招聘更多的女人。
05:25
Brought in younger men.
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招进更多更年轻的男人。
05:27
And we have a more gender-balanced newsroom today.
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现在新闻室里有了更加平衡的男女比例。
05:31
The other thing is that it's about professionalism.
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我还需要做到专业。
05:34
It's about proving who you are and what you can do.
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你需要证明你是谁，你能做什么。
05:37
And I don't know if I'm going to be boasting now,
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我不知道这算不算是吹嘘，
05:40
but in 2006 alone,
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但仅在2006年一年中，
05:43
we won three international awards.
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我们就获得了三项国际奖项。
05:45
One of them is the IPI
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其中之一是国际新闻学会的
05:47
Free Media Pioneer Award.
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自由媒体先锋奖。
05:49
So that was the answer
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这是我们对所有也门人
05:51
to all the Yemeni people.
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的回答。
05:53
And I want to score a point here,
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在这儿我想打个岔，
05:55
because my husband is in the room over there.
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因为我的丈夫就坐在会场那边。
05:57
If you could please stand up, [unclear].
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请你站起来好么。[不清晰]
06:01
He has been very supportive of me.
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他一直非常支持我。
06:04
(Applause)
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（掌声）
06:08
PM: And we should point out
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PM: 我们应该指出
06:10
that he works with you as well at the paper.
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他也和你一起在报社工作。
06:13
But in assuming this responsibility
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通过接手和主编报纸，
06:15
and going about it as you have,
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就如你已经做了的那样，
06:17
you have become a bridge
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你成了沟通社会的桥梁，
06:19
between an older and traditional society
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连接着一个更为古老的传统社会
06:23
and the one that you are now creating at the paper.
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和一个你正在报社创造的社会。
06:26
And so along with changing who worked there,
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在改变报社员工的过程中，
06:29
you must have come up against another positioning
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你一定不得不对抗另一个定位。
06:32
that we always run into, in particular with women,
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这个定位我们总会碰到，特别是女性，
06:35
and it has to do with outside image,
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它是关于外在的形象、
06:38
dress, the veiled woman.
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着装，戴面纱的妇女。
06:40
So how have you dealt with this
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你是如何处理这个问题的，
06:42
on a personal level
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从个人的角度
06:44
as well as the women who worked for you?
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以及为你工作的其他女性的角度？
06:46
NA: As you know,
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NA: 正如大家所知，
06:48
the image of a lot of Yemeni women is a lot of black
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许多也门妇女的形象都是身着黑衣、
06:50
and covered, veiled women.
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佩戴面纱。
06:52
And this is true.
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这是事实。
06:54
And a lot of it is
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很大程度上，这是
06:56
because women are not able, are not free,
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因为女性不能够、不被允许
06:58
to show their face to their self.
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向她们自己展示自己的面孔。
07:00
It's a lot of traditional imposing
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这是来自权威，
07:02
coming by authority figures
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比如说男人、祖父母等人的
07:04
such as the men, the grandparents and so on.
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传统的施压。
07:07
And it's economic empowerment
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如果一个女人能说，
07:09
and the ability for a woman to say,
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“我对这个家庭的贡献和你一样大，
07:11
"I am as much contributing to this family, or more,
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甚至大于你。”
07:14
than you are."
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这会在经济上鼓励妇女。
07:16
And the more empowered the women become,
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女性得到的激励越大，
07:20
the more they are able to remove the veil, for example,
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她们就越有能力去，比如说，摘掉面纱，
07:23
or to drive their own car
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或者自己驾车，
07:25
or to have a job or to be able to travel.
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或者工作，或者旅游。
07:27
So the other face of Yemen
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也门的另一面
07:30
is actually one
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其实
07:32
that lies behind the veil,
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藏在面纱之后。
07:34
and it's economic empowerment mostly
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允许女性摘掉面纱，
07:37
that allows the woman to just uncover it.
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会在经济上给予她们极大的激励。
07:39
And I have done this throughout my work.
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在我的工作上我一直在这样做。
07:42
I've tried to encourage young girls.
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我一直鼓励年轻女孩儿们摘掉面纱。
07:44
We started with, you can take it off in the office.
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开始我说，在办公室里你们可以不戴面纱。
07:48
And then after that, you can take it off on assignments.
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之后我说，在采访的时候你们也可以不戴面纱。
07:51
Because I didn't believe a journalist can be a journalist with --
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因为我认为你戴着面纱就不可能作记者——
07:54
how can you talk to people if you have your face covered? --
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你怎么可能遮着脸和别人谈话？——
07:57
and so on; it's just a movement.
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等等; 另外
07:59
And I am a role model in Yemen.
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在也门我是个榜样。
08:01
A lot of people look up to me.
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很多人钦佩我。
08:03
A lot of young girls look up to me.
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很多年轻的女孩儿钦佩我。
08:05
And I need to prove to them that, yes, you can still be married,
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我要证明给他们看，你仍然可以结婚，
08:07
you can still be a mother,
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你仍然能成为一个母亲，
08:09
and you can still be respected within the society,
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仍然可以在社会上得到尊重，
08:11
but at the same time,
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但与此同时，
08:13
that doesn't mean you [should] just be one of the crowd.
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这并不意味着你必须与众人一样。
08:16
You can be yourself and have your face.
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你可以作你自己，你可以展露你的面孔。
08:19
PM: But by putting yourself personally out there --
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PM: 但是你这样身先士卒——
08:23
both projecting a different image
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不仅展示了一个不一样的
08:25
of Yemeni women,
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也门女性的形象，
08:27
but also what you have made possible
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还给在报纸工作的女性
08:29
for the women who work at the paper --
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创造了许多可能——
08:32
has this put you in personal danger?
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会不会把自己置于危险之中？
08:36
NA: Well the Yemen Times, across 20 years,
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NA: 20年来《也门时报》
08:39
has been through so much.
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经历了许多跌宕起伏。
08:41
We've suffered prosecution;
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我们遭遇过迫害；
08:43
the paper was closed down more than three times.
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报社三次被迫关闭。
08:45
It's an independent newspaper,
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《也门时报》是份独立报纸，
08:48
but tell that to the people in charge.
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可是当权者可不这么想。
08:50
They think that if there's anything against them,
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他们觉得如果我们刊登了反对他们的东西，
08:53
then we are being an opposition newspaper.
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我们就是反对派报纸。
08:57
And very, very difficult times.
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我们还经历过非常、非常艰难的时期。
09:00
Some of my reporters were arrested.
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我们的一些记者被逮捕过。
09:02
We had some court cases.
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我们打过数次官司。
09:04
My father was assassinated.
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我的父亲被刺杀。
09:06
Today, we are in a much better situation.
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现在我们的处境比过去好多了。
09:09
We've created the credibility.
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我们树立了很好的信誉。
09:11
And in times of revolution or change like today,
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在像现在这样的革命或者变革时期，
09:14
it is very important for independent media to have a voice.
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独立媒体要勇于报导，这点非常重要。
09:18
It's very important
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你们访问《也门时报》的网站，YemenTimes.com，
09:20
for you to go to YemenTimes.com,
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这非常重要。
09:22
and it's very important
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你们倾听我们的声音，
09:24
to listen to our voice.
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这非常重要。
09:27
And this is probably something
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有一点
09:29
I'm going to share with you
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我想和大家说的是
09:31
in Western media probably --
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恐怕在西方媒体——
09:33
and how there's a lot of stereotypes --
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有很多成见——
09:37
thinking of Yemen in one single frame:
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用一个模子看也门，
09:40
this is what Yemen is all about.
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认为这就是也门的全部。
09:43
And that's not fair.
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这不公平。
09:45
It's not fair for me; it's not fair for my country.
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这对我不公平，对我的国家不公平。
09:47
A lot of reporters come to Yemen
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很多记者来到也门
09:49
and they want to write a story on Al-Qaeda or terrorism.
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一门心思地想报导“基地”组织或者恐怖主义。
09:52
And I just wanted to share with you:
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我想给大家讲个真人真事：
09:56
there's one reporter that came.
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有个记者到了也门。
09:58
He wanted to do a documentary
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他本来打算
10:00
on what his editors wanted.
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按他的编辑希望的那样做纪录片。
10:04
And he ended up writing about a story that even surprised me --
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但他后来的纪录片内容让我都大吃一惊——
10:07
hip hop --
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嘻哈——
10:09
that there are young Yemeni men
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一些也门年轻男性
10:12
who express themselves
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通过跳舞和“puchu puchu（嘻哈的节奏）”
10:14
through dancing and puchu puchu.
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来表现自己。
10:17
(Laughter)
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（笑）
10:19
That thing. (PM: Rap. Break dancing.)
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那一类东西。（PM: 说唱。霹雳舞。）
10:22
Yeah, break dancing.
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对，霹雳舞。
10:24
I'm not so old.
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我没有老掉牙。
10:27
I'm just not in touch.
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我只是与外界隔绝。
10:29
(Laughter)
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（笑）
10:31
(Applause)
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（掌声）
10:34
PM: Yes, you are.
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PM: 对，是这样。
10:36
Actually, that's a documentary
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事实上，我们可以在网络上
10:38
that's available online; the video's online.
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找到这个纪录片；这个片子被传到网上了。
10:41
NA: ShaketheDust.org.
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NA: 网址是：ShaketheDust.org。
10:43
PM: "Shake the Dust." (NA: "Shake the Dust.")
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PM: 网站名字的英文意思是“掸去灰尘”。（NA: “掸去灰尘”。）
10:46
PM: ShaketheDust.org.
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PM: ShaketheDust.org。
10:48
And it definitely does give a different image of Yemen.
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它确实展示了一个不一样的也门形象。
10:51
You spoke about the responsibility of the press.
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之前你提到了媒体的责任。
10:54
And certainly, when we look
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诚然，我们看到
10:57
at the ways in which we have separated ourselves from others
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我们把自己和其他人分隔开，
11:00
and we've created fear
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我们制造恐惧
11:02
and danger,
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和危险，
11:04
often from lack of knowledge,
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往往因为缺乏信息，
11:06
lack of real understanding,
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缺乏真正的了解，
11:08
how do you see
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那你是怎么看待
11:10
the way that the Western press in particular
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西方媒体在报道这件事上
11:13
is covering this and all other stories out of the region,
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以及所有其他发生在这个地区的事情的方式，
11:16
but in particular, in your country?
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特别是发生在你的国家的事？
11:18
NA: Well there is a saying that says,
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NA: 有句谚语说：
11:21
"You fear what you don't know,
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“未知带来恐惧，
11:23
and you hate what you fear."
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恐惧带来厌恨。”
11:26
So it's about the lack of research, basically.
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这基本上说的就是缺乏考证。
11:29
It's almost, "Do your homework," --
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基本上是，“要做功课。”——
11:32
some involvement.
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要投入进去。
11:34
And you cannot do parachute reporting --
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你不能只做跳伞报道——
11:37
just jump into a country for two days
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空投到一个国家，呆上两天，
11:40
and think that you've done your homework and a story.
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就以为你的功课做好了，你的报道写成了。
11:43
So I wish
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所以我希望
11:45
that the world would know my Yemen,
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世界可以了解我的也门，
11:47
my country, my people.
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我的国家，我的人民。
11:50
I am an example, and there are others like me.
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我就是个例子，还有其他像我一样的人。
11:53
We may not be that many,
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我们这样的人也许不是很多，
11:55
but if we are promoted
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但如果我们作为好的、积极的例子
11:57
as a good, positive example,
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被倡导，
12:00
there will be others -- men and women --
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就会有其他人——既有男人也有女人——
12:03
who can eventually bridge the gap --
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最终成为连接——
12:06
again, coming to the bridge --
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我又要说到桥了——
12:08
between Yemen and the world
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也门和世界之间的桥梁。
12:10
and telling first
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首先是
12:12
about recognition
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关于承认，
12:14
and then about communication
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然后是关于沟通
12:16
and compassion.
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和同情。
12:19
I think Yemen is going to be
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我认为，
12:21
in a very bad situation
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未来的两、三年，
12:24
in the next two or three years.
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也门将处境十分艰难。
12:26
It's natural.
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这是很正常的。
12:28
But after the two years, which is a price we are willing to pay,
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这是我们愿意付出的代价。但是两年之后，
12:31
we are going to stand up again on our feet,
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我们将重新站起，
12:34
but in the new Yemen
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站立于一个新的也门，
12:36
with a younger and more empowered people --
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一个充满了活泼有力的年轻人的也门，
12:39
democratic.
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一个民主的也门。
12:41
(Applause)
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（掌声）
12:49
PM: Nadia, I think you've just given us
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PM: Nadia，我觉得你刚才给了我们
12:51
a very different view of Yemen.
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关于也门非常不同的看法。
12:54
And certainly you yourself and what you do
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毫无疑问，你自己和你的事业
12:57
have given us a view of the future
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带给了我们对未来的展望。
13:00
that we will embrace
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我们对这样的未来充满期待，
13:03
and be grateful for.
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和感激。
13:05
And the very best of luck to you.
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祝你好运。
13:07
YemenTimes.com.
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YemenTimes.com。
13:10
NA: On Twitter also.
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NA: 《也门时报》还使用推特。
13:13
PM: So you are plugged in.
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PM: 你和外界连接畅通。
13:15
(Applause)
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（掌声）
ABOUT THE SPEAKER
Nadia Al-Sakkaf - JournalistNadia Al-Sakkaf is the editor-in-chief of the Yemen Times, the most widely read English-language newspaper in Yemen.
Why you should listen
Nadia Al-Sakkaf became the chief editor of the Yemen Times, the country's first and most widely read independent English-language newspaper, in March 2005, and quickly became a leading voice in Yemen and worldwide media on issues of media, gender, development and politics. During the May 2011 leadership crisis in Yemen, Al-Sakkaf and her organization were vital in reporting the news and putting the political situation in context for the wider world. And as the crisis rolls on, the role of an independent press becomes even more vital. The Yemen Times has reporters on the ground in Sana'a, Taiz, Aden and Hodeida covering the uprising.
Under Al-Sakkaf's leadership, the Yemen Times has also created several publications -- especially those for the advocacy of women’s participation in politics, such as Breaking the Stereotype, a book on Yemeni women's experience as political candidates in elections.
Follow the Yemen Times on Twitter >>
Nadia Al-Sakkaf | Speaker | TED.com