TEDxExeter
Scilla Elworthy: Fighting with nonviolence
Scilla Elworthy：非暴力抗争
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在面对威胁时如何以不使用武力的方式回击？在这个充满智慧的演讲中，和平活动家Scilla Elworthy解释了我们需要的技巧——国家和个人都需要这些技巧——来不以武力的方式对抗极端暴力。为了解答为什么非暴力有效以及如何有效的问题，她引用了历史上的名人——Aung San Suu Kyi，穆罕穆德·甘地，尼尔逊·曼德拉——以及支撑和平抗争的个人哲学。（在TEDxExeter录制）
Scilla Elworthy - Peace builder
Scilla Elworthy founded Oxford Research Group in 1982, to promote effective dialogue between nuclear weapons policy-makers and their opponents. Full bio
Scilla Elworthy founded Oxford Research Group in 1982, to promote effective dialogue between nuclear weapons policy-makers and their opponents. Full bio
Double-click the English transcript below to play the video.
00:16
In half a century of trying to help prevent wars,
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在为防止战争所做的半个世纪工作中，
00:20
there's one question that never leaves me:
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我始终有一个问题：
00:23
How do we deal with extreme violence
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我们在不使用暴力的情况下
00:27
without using force in return?
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如何面对极端暴力？
00:31
When you're faced with brutality,
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当你面对暴力，
00:33
whether it's a child facing a bully on a playground
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不管是一个小孩面对欺负他的小混混，
00:36
or domestic violence --
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还是家庭暴力
00:38
or, on the streets of Syria today,
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或者是叙利亚今天的街道上
00:41
facing tanks and shrapnel,
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面对坦克和弹药，
00:43
what's the most effective thing to do?
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最有效的方式是什么？
00:47
Fight back? Give in?
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反击？屈服？
00:49
Use more force?
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使用更多暴力？
00:53
This question: "How do I deal with a bully
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“我在不变成暴徒的情况下
00:57
without becoming a thug in return?"
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如何面对威胁？”这个问题
01:00
has been with me ever since I was a child.
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自从我还是孩子时就伴随着我。
01:03
I remember I was about 13,
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我记得当我大约13岁时，
01:06
glued to a grainy black and white television in my parents' living room
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被我父母房间里的黑白电视所吸引
01:11
as Soviet tanks rolled into Budapest,
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电视上放着苏联坦克开过布达佩斯，
01:15
and kids not much older than me
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和我差不多大的孩子
01:18
were throwing themselves at the tanks
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在坦克前逃跑
01:20
and getting mown down.
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并且被碾压过去。
01:23
And I rushed upstairs and started packing my suitcase.
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然后我就跑上了楼梯打包我的行李。
01:26
And my mother came up and said, "What on Earth are you doing?"
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妈妈说：“你在干什么？”
01:29
And I said, "I'm going to Budapest."
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我说：“我要去布达佩斯。”
01:31
And she said, "What on Earth for?"
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她说“为什么”
01:34
And I said, "Kids are getting killed there.
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我说“他们在杀害那些孩子。
01:36
There's something terrible happening."
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有一些可怕的事正在发生。”
01:38
And she said, "Don't be so silly."
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她说“别傻了。”
01:40
And I started to cry.
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然后我就开始哭。
01:43
And she got it, she said,
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她懂了，说，
01:45
"Okay, I see it's serious.
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“我知道这很严重。
01:47
You're much too young to help.
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但你太小了。
01:49
You need training. I'll help you.
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你需要训练。来我帮你。
01:52
But just unpack your suitcase."
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但先把行李放下。”
01:54
And so I got some training
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然后我得到了一些训练
01:58
and went and worked in Africa during most of my 20s.
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并且在20几岁时到非洲工作。
02:02
But I realized that what I really needed to know
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但我意识到我真正需要的
02:05
I couldn't get from training courses.
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却是我从那些训练中得不到的。
02:08
I wanted to understand
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我想知道
02:10
how violence, how oppression, works.
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暴力，压迫有什么作用。
02:14
And what I've discovered since is this:
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我发现：
02:19
Bullies use violence in three ways.
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恶棍使用三种暴力。
02:23
They use political violence to intimidate,
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政治暴力来威慑，
02:29
physical violence to terrorize
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肉体暴力来恐吓，
02:34
and mental or emotional violence to undermine.
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以及精神暴力来摧毁。
02:42
And only very rarely in very few cases
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并且用更多的暴力
02:45
does it work to use more violence.
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几乎不起作用。
02:48
Nelson Mandela went to jail believing in violence,
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尼尔逊·曼德拉在相信暴力时被送进了监狱，
02:55
and 27 years later
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27年后，
02:57
he and his colleagues
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他和同事
02:59
had slowly and carefully
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已经慢慢地，很仔细地
03:01
honed the skills, the incredible skills, that they needed
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练成了把一个穷凶极恶的政府
03:06
to turn one of the most vicious governments the world has known
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变成一个
03:10
into a democracy.
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民主政府的技能。
03:12
And they did it in a total devotion to non-violence.
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并且他们以一种完全非暴力的方式实现。
03:16
They realized that using force against force
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他们发现以暴制暴
03:24
doesn't work.
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不管用。
03:29
So what does work?
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那什么管用？
03:31
Over time I've collected about a half-dozen methods
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在这些年里我积累了一些管用的方法
03:34
that do work -- of course there are many more --
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当然方法还有很多
03:36
that do work and that are effective.
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这些方法的确管用。
03:39
And the first is
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第一个是
03:40
that the change that has to take place
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该发生的改变
03:42
has to take place here, inside me.
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必须发生。
03:47
It's my response, my attitude, to oppression
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我的对压迫的反应，态度就是
03:51
that I've got control over,
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我必须控制，
03:54
and that I can do something about.
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并且我能做一些事。
03:56
And what I need to develop is self-knowledge to do that.
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我需要的就是增长知识。
04:00
That means I need to know how I tick,
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这意味着当我垮掉时
04:03
when I collapse,
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我要知道如何保持平衡，
04:05
where my formidable points are,
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我的优点在哪，
04:09
where my weaker points are.
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我的弱点在哪。
04:12
When do I give in?
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我什么时候屈服？
04:13
What will I stand up for?
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我为了什么坚持？
04:19
And meditation or self-inspection
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冥想或自我反思
04:24
is one of the ways -- again it's not the only one --
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是一种方式——当然也不是唯一的方式——
04:26
it's one of the ways
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这是一种方式
04:27
of gaining this kind of inner power.
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来获得这种内在的力量。
04:32
And my heroine here -- like Satish's --
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我戏中的英雄是
04:34
is Aung San Suu Kyi in Burma.
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在缅甸的Aung San Suu Kyi
04:37
She was leading a group of students
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她是一群在Rangoon的学生抗议团队
04:41
on a protest in the streets of Rangoon.
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的领导者。
04:43
They came around a corner faced with a row of machine guns.
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他们面对一排机关枪，
04:47
And she realized straight away
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她立刻意识到
04:48
that the soldiers with their fingers shaking on the triggers
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在扳机上手抖动的士兵
04:52
were more scared than the student protesters behind her.
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比学生抗议者更害怕。
04:58
But she told the students to sit down.
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但她告诉学生坐下。
05:01
And she walked forward with such calm and such clarity
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然后她以出奇的冷静
05:08
and such total lack of fear
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无畏
05:12
that she could walk right up to the first gun,
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走向第一个枪，
05:16
put her hand on it and lower it.
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把她的手放上去，把枪放下来，
05:24
And no one got killed.
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所有人都安全了。
05:27
So that's what the mastery of fear can do --
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这就是控制恐惧能做的——
05:31
not only faced with machine guns,
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不仅当面对机关枪时，
05:34
but if you meet a knife fight in the street.
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更是当你在路上遇到刀战。
05:38
But we have to practice.
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但我们必须练习。
05:40
So what about our fear?
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那么我们害怕什么呢？
05:42
I have a little mantra.
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我有一箴言。
05:47
My fear grows fat
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我越害怕，
05:51
on the energy I feed it.
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我的恐惧越大。
05:53
And if it grows very big
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如果恐惧太大了，
05:55
it probably happens.
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不好的事情就会发生了。
05:57
So we all know the three o'clock in the morning syndrome,
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我们都知道凌晨三点综合征，
06:02
when something you've been worrying about wakes you up --
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当一些你担心的事把你弄醒，
06:05
I see a lot of people --
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我看到许多人
06:07
and for an hour you toss and turn,
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你害怕一小时
06:11
it gets worse and worse,
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然后他越来越厉害，
06:12
and by four o'clock you're pinned to the pillow
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在四点你被一个这么大的怪兽
06:15
by a monster this big.
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钉在枕头上
06:18
The only thing to do
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唯一能做的
06:20
is to get up, make a cup of tea
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就是起床，冲杯茶，
06:21
and sit down with the fear like a child beside you.
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然后和恐惧一起坐下，
06:27
You're the adult.
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你是一个成人，
06:29
The fear is the child.
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恐惧像孩子，
06:31
And you talk to the fear
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你和恐惧说话
06:32
and you ask it what it wants, what it needs.
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你问他他要什么
06:36
How can this be made better?
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这怎样变得更好
06:40
How can the child feel stronger?
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这个孩子如何变得更强壮？
06:42
And you make a plan.
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然后你有一个计划。
06:43
And you say, "Okay, now we're going back to sleep.
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你说“好吧，我们要睡觉了。
06:45
Half-past seven, we're getting up and that's what we're going to do."
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七点半，我们再起床。”
06:49
I had one of these 3 a.m. episodes on Sunday --
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在周日我就有过这种经历
06:55
paralyzed with fear at coming to talk to you.
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已经被恐惧所感到瘫痪
06:59
(Laughter)
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（笑声）
07:01
So I did the thing.
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所以我这么做了。
07:02
I got up, made the cup of tea, sat down with it, did it all
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我起床，冲杯茶，坐下，做了这一切
07:07
and I'm here -- still partly paralyzed, but I'm here.
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所以我在这里——仍然有些麻木，但我在这里。
07:11
(Applause)
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（掌声）
07:15
So that's fear. What about anger?
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所以这就是恐惧。那愤怒呢？
07:18
Wherever there is injustice there's anger.
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只要有不公正就有愤怒。
07:22
But anger is like gasoline,
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但愤怒像汽油，
07:25
and if you spray it around and somebody lights a match,
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如果你泼出汽油，然后有人点了一个火柴，
07:28
you've got an inferno.
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那你就在地狱里了。
07:30
But anger as an engine -- in an engine -- is powerful.
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但作为引擎，愤怒是很有力的。
07:36
If we can put our anger inside an engine,
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如果我们能把愤怒放入引擎里，
07:40
it can drive us forward,
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他能带我们向前，
07:41
it can get us through the dreadful moments
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他能让我们走过悲惨的时刻，
07:44
and it can give us real inner power.
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能给我们真正的内部力量。
07:48
And I learned this in my work
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我在和核武器政策制定者的
07:52
with nuclear weapon policy-makers.
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工作中知道了这个
07:54
Because at the beginning I was so outraged
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因为一开始我对于
07:57
at the dangers they were exposing us to
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他们给我们带来的危险感到很愤怒
08:00
that I just wanted to argue and blame and make them wrong.
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以至于我想辩论，责备，并且让他们感到错误。
08:05
Totally ineffective.
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根本不管用。
08:08
In order to develop a dialogue for change
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为了开始一个带来改变的对话，
08:11
we have to deal with our anger.
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我们需要应付我们的愤怒。
08:13
It's okay to be angry with the thing --
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对此感到愤怒很正常
08:18
the nuclear weapons in this case --
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也就是核武器
08:20
but it is hopeless to be angry with the people.
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但对人愤怒是没有用的。
08:24
They are human beings just like us.
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他们和我们一样是人。
08:27
And they're doing what they think is best.
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他们在做他们认为对的。
08:29
And that's the basis on which we have to talk with them.
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而这就是我们和他们交流的基础。
08:33
So that's the third one, anger.
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所以这就是第三个，愤怒。
08:36
And it brings me to the crux
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现在我们来到了这次演讲的核心，
08:38
of what's going on, or what I perceive as going on,
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也就是现在在这个世界
08:41
in the world today,
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正在发生什么，
08:42
which is that last century was top-down power.
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在上个世纪是由上而下的权利。
08:46
It was still governments telling people what to do.
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过去政府仍然告诉人们该做什么。
08:50
This century there's a shift.
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这个世纪有了变化。
08:52
It's bottom-up or grassroots power.
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现在是由下而上或者说草根权利。
08:56
It's like mushrooms coming through concrete.
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想从混凝土中长出的蘑菇。
08:59
It's people joining up with people, as Bundy just said, miles away
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像Bundy所说，是人和人连结在一起，
09:06
to bring about change.
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来带来改变。
09:08
And Peace Direct spotted quite early on
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和平指导这个项目很快就发现了
09:12
that local people in areas of very hot conflict
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在冲突发生的地区的当地人
09:16
know what to do.
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知道该做什么。
09:18
They know best what to do.
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他们知道最好做什么。
09:21
So Peace Direct gets behind them to do that.
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所以和平指导为他们提供支持。
09:24
And the kind of thing they're doing
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他们做的是
09:26
is demobilizing militias,
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解散军队，
09:29
rebuilding economies,
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重建经济，
09:32
resettling refugees,
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安置难民，
09:34
even liberating child soldiers.
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甚至解放儿童军人。
09:40
And they have to risk their lives almost every day
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他们为这些事必须要
09:43
to do this.
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冒生命风险。
09:46
And what they've realized
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他们已经意识到了
09:50
is that using violence in the situations they operate in
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在这些情况下使用武力
09:55
is not only less humane,
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不仅更不人道，
09:59
but it's less effective
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而且更没有效果，
10:01
than using methods that connect people with people, that rebuild.
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和连接每个人这种方式比起来。
10:08
And I think that the U.S. military
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我认为美国部队
10:12
is finally beginning to get this.
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终于开始懂得这些了。
10:19
Up to now their counter-terrorism policy
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直到现在为止他们的反恐政策
10:21
has been to kill insurgents at almost any cost,
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一直是不惜代价杀死暴乱的人，
10:26
and if civilians get in the way,
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并且如果平民在其中得到了伤害，
10:29
that's written as "collateral damage."
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这会被记录为“附属伤害”。
10:34
And this is so infuriating and humiliating
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这激怒并羞辱了
10:40
for the population of Afghanistan,
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阿富汗人，
10:43
that it makes the recruitment for al-Qaeda very easy,
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所以，比如，当人们被焚烧可兰经激怒时，
10:47
when people are so disgusted by, for example,
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基地组织的扩充
10:50
the burning of the Koran.
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就很容易了。
10:53
So the training of the troops has to change.
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所以部队的训练必须改变。
10:56
And I think there are signs that it is beginning to change.
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我认为现在已经有改变的迹象了。
11:01
The British military have always been much better at this.
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英国部队已经做得很好了。
11:03
But there is one magnificent example for them to take their cue from,
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现在他们能得到一个很好的暗示，
11:09
and that's a brilliant U.S. lieutenant colonel
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这就是一个美国陆军上尉，
11:12
called Chris Hughes.
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克里斯·休。
11:14
And he was leading his men down the streets of Najaf --
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他正在带领他的人在
11:18
in Iraq actually --
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伊拉克——
11:20
and suddenly people were pouring out of the houses on either side of the road,
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一瞬间人们就从街道两旁的房屋中冲出来，
11:25
screaming, yelling, furiously angry,
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尖叫，呐喊，极为愤怒，
11:30
and surrounded these very young troops who were completely terrified,
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并包围了这些已经被惊吓到的士兵，
11:34
didn't know what was going on, couldn't speak Arabic.
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这些士兵不知道发生了什么，也不会说阿拉伯语。
11:37
And Chris Hughes strode into the middle of the throng
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克里斯·休走到人群中间
11:41
with his weapon above his head, pointing at the ground,
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把武器举在头上，指着地面，
11:45
and he said, "Kneel."
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说“跪下”。
11:47
And these huge soldiers
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然后休的士兵
11:50
with their backpacks and their body armor,
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带着他们的背包和武装
11:52
wobbled to the ground.
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摇晃的趴在地上。
11:57
And complete silence fell.
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然后没有一点声音。
12:03
And after about two minutes,
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两分钟过后，
12:05
everybody moved aside and went home.
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人群散开并回家。
12:10
Now that to me is wisdom in action.
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这在我认为就是智慧。
12:15
In the moment, that's what he did.
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在那一刻，那就是他做的。
12:19
And it's happening everywhere now.
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现在在每个地方都会发生。
12:25
You don't believe me?
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你不相信我？
12:27
Have you asked yourselves
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你有没有问过自己
12:31
why and how so many dictatorships have collapsed
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为什么以及有多少独裁政府
12:35
over the last 30 years?
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在过去30年内倒塌了？
12:38
Dictatorships in Czechoslovakia, East Germany,
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在捷克斯洛伐克，东德
12:43
Estonia, Latvia, Lithuania,
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爱沙尼亚，拉脱维亚，立陶宛，
12:48
Mali, Madagascar,
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马里，马达加斯加，
12:51
Poland, the Philippines,
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波兰，菲律宾，
12:54
Serbia, Slovenia, I could go on,
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塞尔维亚，斯洛维尼亚的独裁政府，我可以继续，
12:59
and now Tunisia and Egypt.
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还有现在的突尼斯和埃及。
13:04
And this hasn't just happened.
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这还没有发生。
13:08
A lot of it is due to a book
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很多这些都是因为
13:11
written by an 80-year-old man in Boston, Gene Sharp.
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一本在波士顿的80岁老人Gene Sharp写的书而发生的。
13:16
He wrote a book called "From Dictatorship to Democracy"
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书名是“从独裁到民主”
13:20
with 81 methodologies for non-violent resistance.
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写了非暴力抗争的81种方法。
13:25
And it's been translated into 26 languages.
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这本书被翻译成了26种语言。
13:27
It's flown around the world.
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现在在全世界流行。
13:29
And it's being used by young people and older people everywhere,
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这本书被世界各地的人使用，
13:36
because it works and it's effective.
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因为它很有效。
13:42
So this is what gives me hope --
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这本书给了我希望——
13:46
not just hope, this is what makes me feel very positive right now.
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不只是希望，这本书让我感觉到我是对的，
13:50
Because finally human beings are getting it.
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因为人们最后正在达到它。
13:54
We're getting practical, doable methodologies
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我们在使用实用的，可行的方法
14:02
to answer my question:
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来回答我的问题：
14:03
How do we deal with a bully without becoming a thug?
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我们在面对威胁时如何不使用暴力？
14:10
We're using the kind of skills that I've outlined:
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我们正在用我说过的方法：
14:14
inner power -- the development of inner power -- through self-knowledge,
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内在的力量，自我了解
14:18
recognizing and working with our fear,
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认识并且利用我们的恐惧，
14:21
using anger as a fuel,
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把愤怒化作燃料，
14:25
cooperating with others,
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与他人合作，
14:27
banding together with others,
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和他人结合在一起，
14:29
courage,
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勇气，
14:32
and most importantly, commitment to active non-violence.
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以及最重要的，积极的非暴力抗争。
14:39
Now I don't just believe in non-violence.
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现在我不仅仅相信非暴力。
14:43
I don't have to believe in it.
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我不用相信它。
14:46
I see evidence everywhere of how it works.
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我已经在所有地方看到了它如何工作。
14:49
And I see that we, ordinary people,
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现在我看到，我们，普通人，
14:55
can do what Aung San Suu Kyi and Ghandi and Mandela did.
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能做Aung San Suu Kyi，甘地，和曼德拉所做的。
15:02
We can bring to an end
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我们能终结
15:04
the bloodiest century that humanity has ever known.
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人类历史上见过的最血腥的时代。
15:09
And we can organize to overcome oppression
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我们可以通过打开我们的心
15:17
by opening our hearts
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来组织克服镇压，
15:20
as well as strengthening this incredible resolve.
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同时坚定决心。
15:26
And this open-heartedness is exactly what I've experienced
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这种开放的胸怀正是
15:30
in the entire organization of this gathering since I got here yesterday.
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我从昨天在这里在整个集会组织中所感受到的。
15:35
Thank you.
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谢谢。
15:37
(Applause)
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（掌声）
ABOUT THE SPEAKER
Scilla Elworthy - Peace builderScilla Elworthy founded Oxford Research Group in 1982, to promote effective dialogue between nuclear weapons policy-makers and their opponents.
Why you should listen
When Scilla Elworthy was 13, she sat in front of her television set watching as Soviet tanks rolled into Budapest. Immediately she started packing her bags. "What are you doing?" her mother said. "I'm going to Budapest," she said. "They're doing something awful and I have to go." Years later, Elworthy is a three-time Nobel Peace Prize nominee and a recipient of the Niwano Peace Prize. In 2002 Elworthy founded Peace Direct, which supports local action against conflict, and in 1982 founded Oxford Research Group, a think-tank devoted to developing effective dialogue between nuclear weapons policy-makers and their critics. Beginning in 2005 she helped set up The Elders initiative as an adviser to Sir Richard Branson, Peter Gabriel and Archbishop Desmond Tutu.
Scilla Elworthy | Speaker | TED.com