TEDxBoston
Steve Ramirez and Xu Liu: A mouse. A laser beam. A manipulated memory.
史蒂夫·拉米雷斯及刘旭: 老鼠，雷射光束和被操控的记忆
Filmed:
Readability: 4.1
1,127,889 views
我们能够改编记忆吗？这个带有科幻色彩的问题就是史蒂夫·拉米雷斯和刘旭在麻省理工学院实验室里要求证的问题。最后这对搭档向一只活老鼠发射了一道雷射光，从而激活并控制了它的记忆。在这场幽默的演讲中，两位科学家不仅分享了他们是如何做得到的，更重要的是他们为何而做。（录制于TEDx波士顿)
Steve Ramirez - Neuroscientist
When Steve Ramirez published his latest study in Science, it caused a media frenzy. Why? Because the paper was on implanting false memories in the brains of mice. Full bioXu Liu - Neuroscientist
In his groundbreaking work, Xu Liu investigated how to activate and deactivate specific memories in mice. Full bio
When Steve Ramirez published his latest study in Science, it caused a media frenzy. Why? Because the paper was on implanting false memories in the brains of mice. Full bioXu Liu - Neuroscientist
In his groundbreaking work, Xu Liu investigated how to activate and deactivate specific memories in mice. Full bio
Double-click the English transcript below to play the video.
00:12
Steve Ramirez: My first year of grad school,
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史蒂夫·拉米雷斯：就读研究生的第一年，
00:13
I found myself in my bedroom
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我常常待在自己的卧室里，
00:15
eating lots of Ben & Jerry's
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大吃Ben & Jerry's 冰淇淋，
00:18
watching some trashy TV
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看看一些没营养的电视节目，
00:19
and maybe, maybe listening to Taylor Swift.
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或许，或许还听听泰勒·斯威夫特的歌。
00:23
I had just gone through a breakup.
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我刚刚经历一场失恋嘛。
00:24
(Laughter)
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（笑声）
00:26
So for the longest time, all I would do
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所以很长一段时间里，我所做的
00:28
is recall the memory of this person over and over again,
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就是一边反反复复地回忆有关我前任恋人的一切，
00:32
wishing that I could get rid of that gut-wrenching,
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一边希望自己能摆脱那种
00:34
visceral "blah" feeling.
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令人五脏都纠结的痛楚。
00:37
Now, as it turns out, I'm a neuroscientist,
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现在，我成为了一名神经科学家，
00:39
so I knew that the memory of that person
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我也知道了有关那个人的记忆，
00:42
and the awful, emotional undertones that color in that memory,
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以及那记忆中所挟带的痛苦情感，
00:45
are largely mediated by separate brain systems.
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其实很大程度上是由不同脑区调控的。
00:47
And so I thought, what if we could go into the brain
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所以我就想：我们是不是能深入到人们的大脑中，
00:50
and edit out that nauseating feeling
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仅仅剔除那种令人食不下咽的痛苦
00:52
but while keeping the memory of that person intact?
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却同时完好地保留关于那个前任恋人的记忆？
00:55
Then I realized, maybe that's a little bit lofty for now.
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然后我意识到也许这个想法对现在来说
或许还是有些不切实际。
或许还是有些不切实际。
00:57
So what if we could start off by going into the brain
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那么我们是不是可以先从在大脑中
01:00
and just finding a single memory to begin with?
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找出一个单一记忆开始着手做起呢?
01:03
Could we jump-start that memory back to life,
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我们是否可以跳转到一段过往记忆并在
现实中重新演绎，
现实中重新演绎，
01:05
maybe even play with the contents of that memory?
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甚至也许可以稍稍改编一下记忆的内容？
01:09
All that said, there is one person in the entire world right now
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不过现在，全世界有一个人，我倒是希望她
01:11
that I really hope is not watching this talk.
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现在没看到这段演讲。
01:13
(Laughter)
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（笑声）
01:17
So there is a catch. There is a catch.
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所以啦，凡事都有代价。
01:20
These ideas probably remind you of "Total Recall,"
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也许以上这些设想会让你想起《全面回忆》、
01:23
"Eternal Sunshine of the Spotless Mind,"
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《暖暖内含光》、
01:25
or of "Inception."
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或者《盗梦空间》这些电影。
01:27
But the movie stars that we work with
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但是和我们研究人员合作的
电影明星
电影明星
01:28
are the celebrities of the lab.
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却都是实验室的大牌。
01:30
Xu Liu: Test mice.
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刘旭：（也就是）试验鼠。
01:32
(Laughter)
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（笑声）
01:33
As neuroscientists, we work in the lab with mice
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作为神经科学家，我们通过研究老鼠，
01:36
trying to understand how memory works.
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来尝试理解记忆的运作，
01:40
And today, we hope to convince you that now
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今天，我们希望向你们证明
01:42
we are actually able to activate a memory in the brain
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我们事实上能够在大脑中
01:45
at the speed of light.
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快速激活一段记忆。
01:48
To do this, there's only two simple steps to follow.
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要完成这个任务，我们只需要两个简单的步骤。
01:51
First, you find and label a memory in the brain,
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首先，在大脑中找到并且标记一段记忆，
01:54
and then you activate it with a switch.
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然后用开关激活它。
01:58
As simple as that.
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就是这么简单。
01:59
(Laughter)
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（笑声）
02:01
SR: Are you convinced?
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史蒂夫：你们信服了吗？
02:03
So, turns out finding a memory in the brain isn't all that easy.
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其实，在大脑中找到一段记忆并非如此简单。
02:07
XL: Indeed. This is way more difficult than, let's say,
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刘旭：确实。这其实要比
02:09
finding a needle in a haystack,
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在稻草堆中找到一根针要难得多，
02:12
because at least, you know, the needle is still something
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因为至少，针还是一个
02:14
you can physically put your fingers on.
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你能确实触摸到的实物。
02:17
But memory is not.
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但记忆不是。
02:19
And also, there's way more cells in your brain
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并且，大脑中的脑细胞可比
02:22
than the number of straws in a typical haystack.
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稻草堆中的稻谷要多得多。
02:27
So yeah, this task does seem to be daunting.
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所以，这个任务似乎异常艰难。
02:30
But luckily, we got help from the brain itself.
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但幸运的是，我们从大脑自身得到了帮助。
02:34
It turned out that all we need to do is basically
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事实上我们只需要
02:36
to let the brain form a memory,
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让大脑自己生成一段记忆，
02:38
and then the brain will tell us which cells are involved
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然后大脑会告诉我们哪些脑细胞
02:42
in that particular memory.
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参与了这一段记忆的组成。
02:44
SR: So what was going on in my brain
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史蒂夫：那么在我回忆前任恋人的时候，
02:46
while I was recalling the memory of an ex?
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我的大脑中究竟发生了什么呢？
02:48
If you were to just completely ignore human ethics for a second
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如果你们能暂且抛开人类道德，
02:51
and slice up my brain right now,
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即刻将我的大脑切片解剖，
02:52
you would see that there was an amazing number
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你们就能看到在我回忆那段记忆时，
02:54
of brain regions that were active while recalling that memory.
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很多脑区正处于活跃状态。
02:57
Now one brain region that would be robustly active
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在这其中，
03:00
in particular is called the hippocampus,
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海马体是最为持续活跃的脑区域。
03:02
which for decades has been implicated in processing
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这一脑区负责处理
03:05
the kinds of memories that we hold near and dear,
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对我们来说独具意义的记忆，
03:07
which also makes it an ideal target to go into
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这一点也使得海马体成为可供深入研究的理想目标，
03:10
and to try and find and maybe reactivate a memory.
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我们可以试着在海马体中找到，并或许激活一段记忆。
03:13
XL: When you zoom in into the hippocampus,
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刘旭：当你聚焦于海马体，
03:15
of course you will see lots of cells,
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当然你会看到许多脑细胞，
03:17
but we are able to find which cells are involved
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但我们也能够找到参与
03:20
in a particular memory,
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某一特定记忆的那些细胞，
03:22
because whenever a cell is active,
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因为每当一个脑细胞在活动时，
03:24
like when it's forming a memory,
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比如说当它正在形成一段记忆时，
03:26
it will also leave a footprint that will later allow us to know
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它也会同时留下“足迹”，通过这些足迹我们可以得知
03:30
these cells are recently active.
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这些脑细胞近期有活跃过。
03:32
SR: So the same way that building lights at night
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史蒂夫：这就好比通过夜晚的大楼灯光，
03:34
let you know that somebody's probably working there at any given moment,
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你可以推知有人可能在某一时段在那里工作过。
03:37
in a very real sense, there are biological sensors
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事实上，每一个细胞中都有一些传感器，
03:41
within a cell that are turned on
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这些传感器
03:43
only when that cell was just working.
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只有在该细胞工作时开启。
03:45
They're sort of biological windows that light up
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它们就像透出亮光的生物窗，
03:47
to let us know that that cell was just active.
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告诉我们某一细胞刚刚处于激活状态。
03:49
XL: So we clipped part of this sensor,
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刘旭：因此我们获取这种传感器的一小部分，
03:51
and attached that to a switch to control the cells,
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并将这一部分连接到用于控制脑细胞的开关上，
03:55
and we packed this switch into an engineered virus
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然后我们将这一开关植入于人造病毒中，
03:59
and injected that into the brain of the mice.
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并注射于实验鼠大脑。
04:01
So whenever a memory is being formed,
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所以每当一段记忆形成时，
04:04
any active cells for that memory
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人造开关就会被安装到。
04:06
will also have this switch installed.
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参与其中的每一个脑细胞
04:09
SR: So here is what the hippocampus looks like
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史蒂夫：这就是海马体
04:10
after forming a fear memory, for example.
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形成一段记忆后的形态。
04:13
The sea of blue that you see here
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你们所看到的这一蓝色区域
04:15
are densely packed brain cells,
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密集分布着许多脑细胞；
04:17
but the green brain cells,
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但是这些绿色标记的脑细胞，
04:19
the green brain cells are the ones that are holding on
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则是与某一特定的恐惧记忆有关。
04:21
to a specific fear memory.
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则是与某一特定的恐惧记忆有关。
04:23
So you are looking at the crystallization
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所以你们现在看到的就是“恐惧”形成瞬间的结晶
04:25
of the fleeting formation of fear.
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所以你们现在看到的就是“恐惧”形成瞬间的结晶
04:27
You're actually looking at the cross-section of a memory right now.
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你们现在看到的其实是一组记忆横截面
04:31
XL: Now, for the switch we have been talking about,
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刘旭：现在来看看我们刚刚提到的开关，
04:33
ideally, the switch has to act really fast.
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理论上这个开关的运作速度要非常快。
04:36
It shouldn't take minutes or hours to work.
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运作这一开关不能耗上几分钟或几小时。
04:39
It should act at the speed of the brain, in milliseconds.
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相反它的工作速度单位
要以大脑的运作速度（毫秒）为单位。
要以大脑的运作速度（毫秒）为单位。
04:43
SR: So what do you think, Xu?
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史蒂夫：所以你怎么看，刘旭？
04:44
Could we use, let's say, pharmacological drugs
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你觉得我们能用医学用药
04:47
to activate or inactivate brain cells?
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来激活或减退大脑细胞的活动？
04:49
XL: Nah. Drugs are pretty messy. They spread everywhere.
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刘旭：行不通吧。
药物太难控制了，它们全身乱跑。
药物太难控制了，它们全身乱跑。
04:53
And also it takes them forever to act on cells.
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而且等它们作用到脑细胞上就太慢咯。
04:56
So it will not allow us to control a memory in real time.
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所以我们不太可能用药物来及时控制记忆。
05:00
So Steve, how about let's zap the brain with electricity?
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那史蒂夫，你觉得用电流刺激大脑这个想法如何？
05:04
SR: So electricity is pretty fast,
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史蒂夫：嗯，电流的速度确实快，
05:06
but we probably wouldn't be able to target it
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但是我们不太可能将电流精确定位于
05:08
to just the specific cells that hold onto a memory,
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参与一段记忆行程的那些特定脑细胞，
05:10
and we'd probably fry the brain.
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而且我们很有可能会把大脑烤糊。
05:12
XL: Oh. That's true. So it looks like, hmm,
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刘旭：噢，那倒是真的。嗯，那看来，
05:15
indeed we need to find a better way
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我们确实得要找到一个更好的方法，
05:18
to impact the brain at the speed of light.
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能以光速来控制大脑。
05:21
SR: So it just so happens that light travels at the speed of light.
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史蒂夫：对了，光的穿行速度不就是光速嘛。
05:26
So maybe we could activate or inactive memories
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所以或许我们就可以
05:30
by just using light --
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用光来激活或消退记忆......
05:31
XL: That's pretty fast.
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刘旭：那样确实够快
05:33
SR: -- and because normally brain cells
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史蒂夫： 而且由于脑细胞通常
05:35
don't respond to pulses of light,
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对光波没有反应，
05:36
so those that would respond to pulses of light
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所以能对光波产生反应的
05:38
are those that contain a light-sensitive switch.
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就是那些挟带光敏开光的细胞。
05:41
Now to do that, first we need to trick brain cells
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要做到这点，首先我们必须诱使脑细胞
05:43
to respond to laser beams.
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对镭射光产生反应。
05:44
XL: Yep. You heard it right.
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刘旭：对！你们没有听错。
05:45
We are trying to shoot lasers into the brain.
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我们要试着向大脑发射镭射光。
05:47
(Laughter)
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（笑声）
05:49
SR: And the technique that lets us do that is optogenetics.
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史蒂夫：而我们依靠的技术就是光遗传学
05:52
Optogenetics gave us this light switch that we can use
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通过光遗传学我们得到了这个“光开关”
05:56
to turn brain cells on or off,
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来开启或关闭脑细胞，
05:57
and the name of that switch is channelrhodopsin,
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这个开关就叫做光敏感通道，
06:00
seen here as these green dots attached to this brain cell.
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也就是这里显示的附于这个脑细胞的绿色小点。
06:02
You can think of channelrhodopsin as a sort of light-sensitive switch
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你们可以将光敏感通道看作一种光敏开关，
06:05
that can be artificially installed in brain cells
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它可以被人工安置于脑细胞中，
06:08
so that now we can use that switch
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因此现在我们就可以使用这一开关
06:10
to activate or inactivate the brain cell simply by clicking it,
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只要简单点击一下开关
我们就能激活或减退脑细胞的活动，
我们就能激活或减退脑细胞的活动，
06:13
and in this case we click it on with pulses of light.
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并且我们用的是光波来点击开关。
06:15
XL: So we attach this light-sensitive switch of channelrhodopsin
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刘旭：我们将这一类似光敏开关的紫红质通道蛋白
06:19
to the sensor we've been talking about
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安装于我们刚刚提到的传感器上，
06:21
and inject this into the brain.
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并将它注于脑内。
06:24
So whenever a memory is being formed,
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所以每当一段记忆形成时，
06:27
any active cell for that particular memory
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光敏开关也会被安装到
06:29
will also have this light-sensitive switch installed in it
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参与这一特定记忆的每一个细胞上
06:33
so that we can control these cells
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正如你们所见，我们也就能
06:35
by the flipping of a laser just like this one you see.
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通过调控镭射光来控制脑细胞啦。
06:39
SR: So let's put all of this to the test now.
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史蒂夫：那么我们现在就来测试一下吧。
06:42
What we can do is we can take our mice
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我们拿出实验鼠，
06:44
and then we can put them in a box that looks exactly like this box here,
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将它们放到和这个盒子一模一样的盒中，
06:47
and then we can give them a very mild foot shock
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然后施于它们一个轻微的足电击，
06:50
so that they form a fear memory of this box.
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以使它们对这个盒子形成恐惧记忆。
06:52
They learn that something bad happened here.
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它们记得在这个盒子里发生过不好的事。
06:54
Now with our system, the cells that are active
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现在在我们的大脑中，海马体内有
06:56
in the hippocampus in the making of this memory,
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参与形成这一恐惧记忆的活跃脑细胞，
06:59
only those cells will now contain channelrhodopsin.
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现在只有这些细胞带有紫红质通道蛋白。
07:02
XL: When you are as small as a mouse,
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刘旭：当你像老鼠那么小的时候，
07:05
it feels as if the whole world is trying to get you.
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会感觉仿佛全世界都要欺压你
07:08
So your best response of defense
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而你最好的应对办法
07:10
is trying to be undetected.
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就是尽量把自己藏好。
07:13
Whenever a mouse is in fear,
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每当老鼠害怕时，
07:15
it will show this very typical behavior
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它最典型的表现
07:16
by staying at one corner of the box,
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就是藏到盒子的一角，
07:18
trying to not move any part of its body,
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一动也不动
07:21
and this posture is called freezing.
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我们称这个姿势为“定格”
07:24
So if a mouse remembers that something bad happened in this box,
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因此只要老鼠记得在这个盒子里发生过不愉快的事，
07:29
and when we put them back into the same box,
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当我们将它们放回盒中时，
07:31
it will basically show freezing
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老鼠就会表现出“定格”行为，
07:33
because it doesn't want to be detected
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因为它不想被
07:35
by any potential threats in this box.
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盒中任何可能的危险捕获。
07:38
SR: So you can think of freezing as,
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史蒂夫：你们可以将“定格”理解为，
07:40
you're walking down the street minding your own business,
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你好好地走在路上，想着你自己的事情，
07:42
and then out of nowhere you almost run into
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突然不经意地你就撞上了
07:43
an ex-girlfriend or ex-boyfriend,
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你的前女友或前男友，
07:46
and now those terrifying two seconds
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就在那令人恐慌的两秒内，
07:48
where you start thinking, "What do I do? Do I say hi?
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你开始想，“我该怎么做？我要打招呼吗？
07:50
Do I shake their hand? Do I turn around and run away?
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我要和他们握手吗？还是转身就跑？
07:51
Do I sit here and pretend like I don't exist?"
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还是就坐在这里，假装自己不存在？”
07:53
Those kinds of fleeting thoughts that physically incapacitate you,
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这些在你脑中一闪而过的念头令你四肢僵硬、
07:56
that temporarily give you that deer-in-headlights look.
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而你脸上的表情就像车头灯照射下的惊恐小鹿。
07:59
XL: However, if you put the mouse in a completely different
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刘旭：然而当你将实验鼠置于一个截然不同的新盒中，
08:02
new box, like the next one,
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就像这里的第二个盒子，
08:05
it will not be afraid of this box
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它就不会害怕。
08:08
because there's no reason that it will be afraid of this new environment.
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因为它没有理由对这个新环境产生恐惧。
08:12
But what if we put the mouse in this new box
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但是如果我们将实验鼠放于这个新盒中
08:15
but at the same time, we activate the fear memory
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同时用镭射光
08:19
using lasers just like we did before?
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激活之前的那段恐惧记忆
08:22
Are we going to bring back the fear memory
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我们能否将对于第一个盒子的那段记忆
08:25
for the first box into this completely new environment?
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在这个新环境中重现呢？
08:29
SR: All right, and here's the million-dollar experiment.
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史蒂夫：不错，这就是那个耗价百万的实验。
08:31
Now to bring back to life the memory of that day,
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现在就让我们把那一天的记忆重现，
08:34
I remember that the Red Sox had just won,
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我记得那一天波士顿红袜队正巧打赢一场比赛，
08:36
it was a green spring day,
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那是一个绿意盎然的春日，
08:38
perfect for going up and down the river
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最适宜在小河中划船，
08:40
and then maybe going to the North End
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然后也许去波士顿北区
08:43
to get some cannolis, #justsaying.
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买几个奶油甜馅煎饼卷
啊，只是说说而已。
啊，只是说说而已。
08:45
Now Xu and I, on the other hand,
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事实上刘旭和我，
08:48
were in a completely windowless black room
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当时正在一间没有窗户的小黑屋里，
08:51
not making any ocular movement that even remotely resembles an eye blink
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双眼一眨不眨
08:54
because our eyes were fixed onto a computer screen.
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因为我们的目光正牢牢盯住电脑屏幕
08:57
We were looking at this mouse here trying to activate a memory
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我们当时正看着这只老鼠
第一次尝试用我们的技术
第一次尝试用我们的技术
08:59
for the first time using our technique.
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来激活一段记忆。
09:01
XL: And this is what we saw.
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刘旭：而这就是我们看到的：
09:04
When we first put the mouse into this box,
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当我们第一次将老鼠放进这只盒子时，
09:06
it's exploring, sniffing around, walking around,
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它在探索，这边嗅嗅，那边转转，
09:09
minding its own business,
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完全沉浸在自己的世界里，
09:11
because actually by nature,
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事实上，老鼠天性就是好奇心旺盛的动物。
09:13
mice are pretty curious animals.
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事实上，老鼠天性就是好奇心旺盛的动物。
09:15
They want to know, what's going on in this new box?
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他们想知道：这个新盒子里有什么
09:17
It's interesting.
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这里很有趣啊。
09:19
But the moment we turned on the laser, like you see now,
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但是当我们打开镭射光
就像你们现在看到的
就像你们现在看到的
09:22
all of a sudden the mouse entered this freezing mode.
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突然之间实验鼠进入了“定格”模式。
09:25
It stayed here and tried not to move any part of its body.
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它停在那里，身体一动不动
09:30
Clearly it's freezing.
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很显然它僵住了。
09:31
So indeed, it looks like we are able to bring back
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似乎我们能够将
09:34
the fear memory for the first box
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对于第一个盒子的恐惧记忆带回到
09:36
in this completely new environment.
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这个全新的环境中。
09:39
While watching this, Steve and I
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当我和Steve看到这些时，
09:41
are as shocked as the mouse itself.
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我们也像实验鼠一样惊呆了。
09:44
(Laughter)
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（笑声）
09:45
So after the experiment, the two of us just left the room
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当实验结束后，我们两啥也没说，
09:48
without saying anything.
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一声不响地离开了房间。
09:50
After a kind of long, awkward period of time,
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过了有点长、有点尴尬的一段时间后，
09:53
Steve broke the silence.
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史蒂夫首先开口了。
09:55
SR: "Did that just work?"
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史蒂夫：“所以那个成功了？”
09:58
XL: "Yes," I said. "Indeed it worked!"
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刘旭：“是啊，”我说。“它确确实实成功了！”
10:01
We're really excited about this.
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我们对此兴奋不已。
10:03
And then we published our findings
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然后我们在《自然》杂志
10:05
in the journal Nature.
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发表了这一发现。
10:07
Ever since the publication of our work,
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自从发表以来，
10:10
we've been receiving numerous comments
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我们从互联网
10:12
from all over the Internet.
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收到了无数的评论。
10:14
Maybe we can take a look at some of those.
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也许我们可以看看其中的某些评论。·
10:18
["OMGGGGG FINALLY... so much more to come, virtual reality, neural manipulation, visual dream emulation... neural coding, 'writing and re-writing of memories', mental illnesses. Ahhh the future is awesome"]
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“天呐！终于...... 有太多太多的新发现了：虚拟现实，神经控制，梦境的视觉再现，神经编码，’记忆的记录与再记录‘， 心理疾病，啊，未来太棒了”
10:20
SR: So the first thing that you'll notice is that people
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史蒂夫：你首先会注意到人们
10:22
have really strong opinions about this kind of work.
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对这类研究有着非常强烈的观点。
10:25
Now I happen to completely agree with the optimism
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我完全同意
10:28
of this first quote,
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第一条评论所体现的乐观性，
10:29
because on a scale of zero to Morgan Freeman's voice,
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如果用零到摩根弗里曼的声音这一范围作为量表，
10:31
it happens to be one of the most evocative accolades
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这恰巧是我听过的
10:34
that I've heard come our way.
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对我们的工作给出的最打动人的称赞
10:35
(Laughter)
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（笑声）
10:37
But as you'll see, it's not the only opinion that's out there.
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但你也将看到，这并不是唯一的观点。
10:39
["This scares the hell out of me... What if they could do that easily in humans in a couple of years?! OH MY GOD WE'RE DOOMED"]
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“这太可怕了......如果他们能在几年内轻而易举地将这一技术用于人类？！天呐，我们完蛋了”
10:41
XL: Indeed, if we take a look at the second one,
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刘旭：确实，如果我们看看第二条，
10:43
I think we can all agree that it's, meh,
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我想我们不得不说，
10:45
probably not as positive.
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它的评价并不那么正面
10:47
But this also reminds us that,
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但也正提醒我们，
10:49
although we are still working with mice,
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虽然现在我们只是试验于老鼠身上，
10:52
it's probably a good idea to start thinking and discussing
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但也许我们也该开始思考、探讨
10:55
about the possible ethical ramifications
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记忆控制
10:58
of memory control.
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可能产生的道德后果。
11:00
SR: Now, in the spirit of the third quote,
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史蒂夫：现在，鉴于第三条评论，
11:02
we want to tell you about a recent project that we've been
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我们想要向你们报告我们实验室
11:04
working on in lab that we've called Project Inception.
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正在研究的第三个项目。我们称其为“盗梦空间”项目。
11:07
["They should make a movie about this. Where they plant ideas into peoples minds, so they can control them for their own personal gain. We'll call it: Inception."]
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“他们应该把这个拍成电影。他们将思想、观念植入于人脑，借此他们就可以为私利操控人类。这就是：盗梦空间。”
11:10
So we reasoned that now that we can reactivate a memory,
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于是我们就此推论：既然我们能够重新激活一段记忆，
11:14
what if we do so but then begin to tinker with that memory?
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那么何不开始操纵这段记忆？
11:17
Could we possibly even turn it into a false memory?
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我们是不是可以将它变为一段错误记忆?
11:20
XL: So all memory is sophisticated and dynamic,
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刘旭：所有记忆都是复杂的，它们总是处于动态模式，
11:24
but if just for simplicity, let's imagine memory
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用个简化的比喻，我们可以将记忆想象为
11:27
as a movie clip.
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一段电影。
11:28
So far what we've told you is basically we can control
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目前我们所说的只是我们能够控制
11:31
this "play" button of the clip
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这段电影片段的“播放”按钮，
11:33
so that we can play this video clip any time, anywhere.
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借此我们可以随时随地地播放这段影片。
11:37
But is there a possibility that we can actually get
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但是我们是否可以深入大脑内部、
11:40
inside the brain and edit this movie clip
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并改编这段影片，
11:43
so that we can make it different from the original?
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让它不同于原片？
11:46
Yes we can.
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是的，我们可以。
11:48
Turned out that all we need to do is basically
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事实上我们所要做的仅仅是
11:50
reactivate a memory using lasers just like we did before,
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重新用镭射光激活一段记忆，就像我们刚刚做的那样，
11:54
but at the same time, if we present new information
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但同时，如果我们呈现新的信息
11:58
and allow this new information to incorporate into this old memory,
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并将新信息融入老的记忆中，
12:02
this will change the memory.
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这将会改变原先的记忆。
12:04
It's sort of like making a remix tape.
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这就像制作一段混音录音。
12:08
SR: So how do we do this?
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史蒂夫：那么怎么做呢？
12:11
Rather than finding a fear memory in the brain,
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这次我们不找大脑中的恐惧记忆了，
12:13
we can start by taking our animals,
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而是将我们的实验动物
12:14
and let's say we put them in a blue box like this blue box here
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放在一个蓝盒子里，就像这边的这个，
12:17
and we find the brain cells that represent that blue box
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然后我们找到大脑中表示这个蓝盒子的脑细胞，
12:20
and we trick them to respond to pulses of light
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诱使它们对光波产生反应，
12:22
exactly like we had said before.
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就像我们刚刚说的那样，
12:24
Now the next day, we can take our animals and place them
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然后第二天，我们把动物放在
12:26
in a red box that they've never experienced before.
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它们从未待过的红盒子里
12:29
We can shoot light into the brain to reactivate
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接着我们向大脑发射光束，从而激活动物
12:31
the memory of the blue box.
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对于蓝盒子的记忆。
12:33
So what would happen here if, while the animal
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那么将会发生什么呢：当动物
12:35
is recalling the memory of the blue box,
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正在回忆关于蓝盒子的记忆时，
12:36
we gave it a couple of mild foot shocks?
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我们施于它轻度的足电击？
12:39
So here we're trying to artificially make an association
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我们想要人工形成老鼠对
蓝盒子和足电击反应之间的联系。
蓝盒子和足电击反应之间的联系。
12:42
between the memory of the blue box
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我们想要人工形成老鼠对
蓝盒子和足电击反应之间的联系。
蓝盒子和足电击反应之间的联系。
12:44
and the foot shocks themselves.
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我们想要人工形成老鼠对
蓝盒子和足电击反应之间的联系。
蓝盒子和足电击反应之间的联系。
12:45
We're just trying to connect the two.
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我们想把两者联系起来。
12:47
So to test if we had done so,
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为了测试联系是否产生，
12:49
we can take our animals once again
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我们再一次
12:50
and place them back in the blue box.
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将动物放回蓝盒中。
12:52
Again, we had just reactivated the memory of the blue box
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就在这之前，我们已在动物回忆蓝盒时
12:55
while the animal got a couple of mild foot shocks,
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对它施加了轻微的足电击，
12:57
and now the animal suddenly freezes.
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而现在老鼠却出现了"定格"反应，
12:59
It's as though it's recalling being mildly shocked in this environment
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这就好像在记忆中它确实在蓝盒中遭到了电击，
13:02
even though that never actually happened.
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虽然实际上这从未发生过。
13:05
So it formed a false memory,
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由此错误记忆就生成了，
13:07
because it's falsely fearing an environment
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因为我们的试验动物对环境产生了错误的“恐惧”反应，
13:09
where, technically speaking,
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而实际上，
13:10
nothing bad actually happened to it.
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在那个环境中什么坏事都没发生。
13:13
XL: So, so far we are only talking about
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刘旭：到现在为止，我们仅仅是在讨论
13:15
this light-controlled "on" switch.
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这个光控开关的“开启”功能。
13:18
In fact, we also have a light-controlled "off" switch,
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事实上，我们的光控开关还有“关闭”功能，
13:21
and it's very easy to imagine that
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不难想象，
13:23
by installing this light-controlled "off" switch,
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有了这个光控“关闭'开关，
13:25
we can also turn off a memory, any time, anywhere.
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我们也可以随时随地关闭一段记忆。
13:31
So everything we've been talking about today
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所以今天我们所讨论的研究
13:33
is based on this philosophically charged principle of neuroscience
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都是基于神经科学的一条哲学原则，
13:38
that the mind, with its seemingly mysterious properties,
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即大脑虽然看似神秘，
13:42
is actually made of physical stuff that we can tinker with.
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但其实也是由可以被我们所调控的物质基础所组成的。
13:46
SR: And for me personally,
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史蒂夫：而对我个人来说，
13:47
I see a world where we can reactivate
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我可以预见我们将能够重新激活
13:49
any kind of memory that we'd like.
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任何我们想激活的记忆。
13:51
I also see a world where we can erase unwanted memories.
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而同时我们也可以消除不想要的记忆。
13:54
Now, I even see a world where editing memories
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我甚至可以预见
13:56
is something of a reality,
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改编记忆将成为现实，
13:58
because we're living in a time where it's possible
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因为在这个时代我们能够
13:59
to pluck questions from the tree of science fiction
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从科幻小说之树上摘取”问题“果实
14:02
and to ground them in experimental reality.
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然后将它们投入现实试验。
14:04
XL: Nowadays, people in the lab
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刘旭：如今，全世界的科研人员
14:06
and people in other groups all over the world
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和其它工作者
14:08
are using similar methods to activate or edit memories,
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都在用相似的方法来激活和改写各种记忆，
14:12
whether that's old or new, positive or negative,
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无论是旧的记忆、新的记忆，积极的或消极的，
14:16
all sorts of memories so that we can understand
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这样我们便能够更好地理解
14:19
how memory works.
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记忆的运作。
14:20
SR: For example, one group in our lab
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史蒂夫：例如，我们实验室的一个研究小组
14:22
was able to find the brain cells that make up a fear memory
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发现了生成恐惧记忆的相关脑细胞，
14:25
and converted them into a pleasurable memory, just like that.
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并使它们产生愉快记忆。
14:28
That's exactly what I mean about editing these kinds of processes.
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这就是我所说的改编记忆。
14:31
Now one dude in lab was even able to reactivate
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我们实验室的一名研究人员甚至能够
14:33
memories of female mice in male mice,
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在雄性老鼠大脑中再现激活雌性老鼠的记忆，
14:35
which rumor has it is a pleasurable experience.
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据说这是一段相当愉快的经历。
14:38
XL: Indeed, we are living in a very exciting moment
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刘旭：不错，我们正生活在一个令人振奋的时刻，
14:42
where science doesn't have any arbitrary speed limits
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在这里科学发展没有任何外在限速，
14:46
but is only bound by our own imagination.
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它只为我们的想象力所缚。
14:49
SR: And finally, what do we make of all this?
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史蒂夫：那么最后，我们要如何运用我们的新发现呢？
14:51
How do we push this technology forward?
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又如何将这一技术继续推进呢？
14:53
These are the questions that should not remain
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这些问题不仅仅是实验室中的问题，
14:55
just inside the lab,
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这些问题不仅仅是实验室中的问题，
14:57
and so one goal of today's talk was to bring everybody
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所以我们今天讲座的目的之一
14:59
up to speed with the kind of stuff that's possible
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除了是要向大家介绍
15:02
in modern neuroscience,
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当代神经科学的新可能，
15:03
but now, just as importantly,
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但同样重要的是
15:05
to actively engage everybody in this conversation.
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我们想鼓动每个人都加入到这场交流中。
15:08
So let's think together as a team about what this all means
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让我们作为一个团队来共同思考这一新发现新技术
究竟意味着什么，
究竟意味着什么，
15:10
and where we can and should go from here,
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从这个起点我们可以又该走向何方。
15:13
because Xu and I think we all have
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因为刘旭和我都认为
15:15
some really big decisions ahead of us.
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有一些非常重要的决定在前方等着我们。
15:17
Thank you.
XL: Thank you.
XL: Thank you.
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谢谢大家。
刘旭：谢谢各位
刘旭：谢谢各位
15:18
(Applause)
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（掌声）
ABOUT THE SPEAKERS
Steve Ramirez - NeuroscientistWhen Steve Ramirez published his latest study in Science, it caused a media frenzy. Why? Because the paper was on implanting false memories in the brains of mice.
Why you should listen
Steve is a graduate student at MIT’s Brain and Cognitive Sciences department pursuing a Ph.D. in neuroscience. His work focuses on finding where single memories are located throughout the brain, genetically tricking the brain cells that house these memories to respond to brief pulses of light, and then using these same flickers of light to reactivate, erase and implant memories. The goals of his research are twofold: to figure out how the brain gives rise to the seemingly ephemeral process of memory, and to predict what happens when specific brain pieces breakdown to impair cognition. His work has been published in Science and covered by New Scientist, Discover, Scientific American, and Gizmodo.
Ramirez aims to be a professor who runs a lab that plucks questions from the tree of science fiction to ground them in experimental reality. He believes that a team-oriented approach to science makes research and teaching far more exciting. When he’s not tinkering with memories in the lab, Ramirez also enjoys running and cheering on every sports team in the city of Boston.
Steve Ramirez | Speaker | TED.com
Xu Liu - Neuroscientist
In his groundbreaking work, Xu Liu investigated how to activate and deactivate specific memories in mice.
Why you should listen
During his PhD, Xu Liu studied the mechanisms of learning and memory, using fruit flies as a model system. By changing the expression of certain genes in the fly brain, he generated smart flies that can learn many times faster than their peers. Using live imaging, he also detected learning-induced changes in the brain cells and observed memory formation inside the brain with light.
After graduation, he moved to MIT and joined Dr. Susumu Tonegawa's lab as a postdoctoral associate. He continued his pursuit of memory with light there. Instead of just watching memory formation, he developed a system in mice where one can not only identify and label cells in the brain for a particular memory, but also turn these cells on and off with light to activate this memory at will. This work was published in Science and has been covered by the media worldwide. Liu passed away in February 2015.
Xu Liu | Speaker | TED.com