TEDxJaffa 2012
Ronny Edry: Israel and Iran: A love story?
以色列和伊朗：一個愛情故事？
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Readability: 3.1
2,101,296 views
當以色列和伊朗之間的戰爭看似將要爆發，以色列籍的平面設計師朗尼．艾德瑞在臉書上分享了一張他和女兒的海報，上面寫著「伊朗…我【愛】你」很快地，許多以色列人也製作了他們自己的海報，上面寫著同樣的字－－隨後伊朗人也親切的回應了。一個簡單的動作激發了臉書上熱烈的回響，許多社群紛紛設立，如：「以色列愛伊朗」、「伊朗愛以色列」，以及「巴勒斯坦愛以色列」等。
Ronny Edry - Graphic Designer
Ronny Edry of Israel created The Peace Factory, an online movement for peace in the Middle East, when he posted a Facebook image that declared "Iranians, we will never bomb your country." Full bio
Ronny Edry of Israel created The Peace Factory, an online movement for peace in the Middle East, when he posted a Facebook image that declared "Iranians, we will never bomb your country." Full bio
Double-click the English transcript below to play the video.
00:16
On March 14, this year,
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今年的3月14日
00:19
I posted this poster on Facebook.
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我在臉書上貼了一張海報
00:22
This is an image of me and my daughter
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這是我和女兒的合照
00:24
holding the Israeli flag.
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她手裡拿著以色列的國旗
00:27
I will try to explain to you about the context of why
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稍後我會解釋為什麼要貼有這些文字的海報
00:30
and when I posted.
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以及我在什麼時候貼的
00:33
A few days ago, I was sitting waiting
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幾天前
00:36
on the line at the grocery store,
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我坐在雜貨店前排隊
00:38
and the owner and one of the clients
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老闆和一位客人
00:41
were talking to each other,
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正在對話
00:43
and the owner was explaining to the client
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老闆告訴客人說：
00:45
that we're going to get 10,000 missiles on Israel.
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「我們會在以色列投下一萬顆飛彈。」
00:48
And the client was saying, no, it's 10,000 a day.
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然後客人說：「不對，是一天一萬顆。」
00:53
(Laughter)
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（笑聲）
00:56
("10,000 missiles") This is the context. This is where we are now in Israel.
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（一萬顆飛彈）
這是文字內容，這是我們所在的以色列
這是文字內容，這是我們所在的以色列
01:01
We have this war with Iran coming for 10 years now,
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我們和伊朗的戰爭將邁入第十年
01:04
and we have people, you know, afraid.
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我們的人民感到害怕
01:08
It's like every year it's the last minute
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每一年都像是我們可以對以伊戰爭
01:11
that we can do something about the war with Iran.
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做點什麼的最後一刻
01:14
It's like, if we don't act now, it's too late forever,
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就像是如果我們現在不做
一切就會太遲了
一切就會太遲了
01:18
for 10 years now.
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到現在已經十年了
01:20
So at some point it became, you know, to me,
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有時候就會變成…你知道，對我來說
01:22
I'm a graphic designer, so I made posters about it
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我是平面設計師，所以我做了相關的海報
01:25
and I posted the one I just showed you before.
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就像我剛剛給你看的那種，然後把它貼出來
01:29
Most of the time, I make posters, I post them on Facebook,
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通常我把設計好的海報貼在臉書上
01:32
my friends like it, don't like it,
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我的朋友們有人會喜歡，也有人會不喜歡
01:34
most of the time don't like it, don't share it,
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通常他們不喜歡就不會分享出去
01:36
don't nothing,
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不做任何動作
01:38
and it's another day.
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然後就風平浪靜地過了一天
01:40
So I went to sleep, and that was it for me.
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所以我通常會上床去睡覺
01:44
And later on in the night, I woke up
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當天入夜後我起床
01:47
because I'm always waking up in the night,
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我通常都是晚上才起床
01:49
and I went by the computer and I see all these red dots,
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然後我走到電腦旁，然後我看到這些紅點
01:51
you know, on Facebook, which I've never seen before.
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你知道我可從來沒有在臉書上看過這些
01:54
(Laughter)
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（笑聲）
01:55
And I was like, "What's going on?"
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所以我很疑惑：「是發生什麼事了？」
01:58
So I come to the computer and I start looking on,
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所以我仔細看了電腦
02:01
and suddenly I see many people talking to me,
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突然發現有很多人在和我對話
02:04
most of them I don't know,
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大部份是我不認識的人
02:07
and a few of them from Iran,
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有一些是伊朗人
02:09
which is -- What?
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那是－－什麼？
02:13
Because you have to understand,
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你們要了解
02:15
in Israel we don't talk with people from Iran.
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在以色列我們不和伊朗人說話
02:19
We don't know people from Iran.
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我們不認識從伊朗來的人
02:21
It's like, on Facebook, you have friends only from --
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就好像是臉書上
02:25
it's like your neighbors are your friends on Facebook.
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你的鄰居就是你的臉書上的朋友
02:29
And now people from Iran are talking to me.
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而現在來自伊朗的人在跟我說話
02:31
So I start answering this girl, and she's telling me
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所以我開始回應這位女孩
02:35
she saw the poster and she asked her family to come,
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她告訴我，她看到海報後請她的家人們過來
02:40
because they don't have a computer, she asked her family
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因為他們沒有電腦
02:41
to come to see the poster, and they're all sitting in the living room crying.
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所以她請她的家人們來看海報
然後大家就坐在客廳裡哭
然後大家就坐在客廳裡哭
02:46
So I'm like, whoa.
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所以我「哇嗚！」
02:48
I ask my wife to come, and I tell her, you have to see that.
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我請我太太過來
然後告訴她一定要來看這個
然後告訴她一定要來看這個
02:51
People are crying, and she came, she read the text,
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有很多人哭了，然後她走過來，讀了上面的文字
02:54
and she started to cry.
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然後也開始哭了
02:57
And everybody's crying now. (Laughter)
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現在每個人都哭了
（笑聲）
（笑聲）
02:59
So I don't know what to do, so my first reflex,
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我不知道該怎麼辦，我的第一個反應是
03:02
as a graphic designer, is, you know, to show everybody
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身為平面設計者應該就是要這麼做
03:06
what I'd just seen, and people started to see them
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展示圖片給大家看
03:09
and to share them, and that's how it started.
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人們看了之後就分享，事情就該是這樣開始
03:12
The day after, when really it became a lot of talking,
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那天之後，這件事真的開始變成人們的話題
03:16
I said to myself, and my wife said to me,
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我告訴我自己，我太太也告訴我
03:18
I also want a poster,
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我也想要做一張圖
03:19
so this is her. (Laughter)
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所以我也幫她做了一張（笑聲）
03:23
Because it's working, put me in a poster now.
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因為很有成效，讓我成為海報裡的主角
03:28
But more seriously, I was like, okay, these ones work,
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但是嚴肅一點來看
03:31
but it's not just about me, it's about people from Israel
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這不只是一張作品，不只是跟我有關
是關於來自以色列的人們
是關於來自以色列的人們
03:34
who want to say something.
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想要說些什麼
03:35
So I'm going to shoot all the people I know, if they want,
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所以我打算要為我的朋友們拍照
如果他們願意的話
如果他們願意的話
03:38
and I'm going to put them in a poster and I'm going to share them.
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然後我會幫他們做張海報，分享出去
03:40
So I went to my neighbors and friends and students
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因此我去找我的鄰居、朋友和學生
03:43
and I just asked them, give me a picture, I will make you a poster.
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我只是跟他們說
給我一張照片，然後我幫你做一張海報
給我一張照片，然後我幫你做一張海報
03:48
And that's how it started. And that's how, really,
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事情就這樣開始了
03:50
it's unleashed, because suddenly people
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然後就這樣爆發了
03:54
from Facebook, friends and others,
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因為人們從臉書、朋友開始
03:56
just understand that they can be part of it.
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了解他們也可以成為其中的一份子
03:59
It's not just one dude making one poster,
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那不只是一個老兄做了一張海報
04:01
it's -- we can be part of it, so they start sending me pictures
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而是－－我們可以參與其中
所以有很多人開始寄照片給我
所以有很多人開始寄照片給我
04:05
and ask me, "Make me a poster. Post it.
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然後請我做一張海報、分享出去
04:07
Tell the Iranians we from Israel love you too."
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告訴伊朗人，我來自以色列，我也愛你們
04:12
It became, you know, at some point it was really, really intense.
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在某個時間點，這件事變得非常踴躍
04:15
I mean, so many pictures, so I asked friends
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我的意思是，有這麼多照片
04:19
to come, graphic designers most of them,
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所以我請朋友們一起來幫忙，大部份也是設計師
04:22
to make posters with me, because I didn't have the time.
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來幫我做海報，因為我沒有時間做這麼多
04:25
It was a huge amount of pictures.
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那可是很多很多的照片
04:28
So for a few days, that's how my living room was.
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有幾天，我的客廳變成這樣
04:31
And we received Israeli posters, Israeli images,
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我們收到以色列人的海報、照片
04:36
but also lots of comments, lots of messages from Iran.
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以及很多來自伊朗的評論和訊息
04:40
And we took these messages and we made posters out of it,
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我們接收了訊息，然後以此做成海報
04:44
because I know people: They don't read, they see images.
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因為我知道人們不看字，只看圖片
04:47
If it's an image, they may read it.
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如果那是一張圖，他們可能會看
04:50
So here are a few of them.
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這是其中的幾張
04:53
("You are my first Israelian friend. I wish we both get rid of our idiot politicians, anyway nice to see you!")
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（「你是我第一位以色列籍的朋友，我希望我們都可以廢掉那些愚蠢政客。總而言之，很高興見到你！」）
04:55
("I love that blue. I love that star. I love that flag.") This one is really moving for me because it's the story
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（「我喜歡那個藍色，那顆星星，還有那面國旗。」
04:59
of a girl who has been raised in Iran
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這張深深感動了我
這是一位在伊朗長大的女孩
這是一位在伊朗長大的女孩
05:03
to walk on an Israeli flag to enter her school every morning,
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她每天早上要踩過以色列國旗才能進入校門
05:08
and now that she sees the posters that we're sending,
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她看到我們最近發出的海報
05:11
she starts -- she said that she changed her mind,
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她說她改變了她的心意
05:14
and now she loves that blue, she loves that star,
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現在她喜歡藍色、喜歡那顆星星
05:17
and she loves that flag, talking about the Israeli flag,
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也愛那面旗子，談到以色列國旗
05:20
and she wished that we'd meet and come to visit one another,
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她希望我們未來有機會可以拜訪彼此
05:23
and just a few days after I posted the first poster.
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這件事發生在我貼第一張海報之後的幾天而已
05:29
The day after,
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那天之後
05:31
Iranians started to respond with their own posters.
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伊朗人開始用他們的海報來回應
05:34
They have graphic designers. What? (Laughter)
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他們也有平面設計師
什麼？（笑聲）
什麼？（笑聲）
05:37
Crazy, crazy.
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太瘋狂了，太瘋狂了
05:40
So you can see they are still shy, they don't want to show their faces,
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你可以看到他們依然很害羞
不願意讓人看到他們的臉
不願意讓人看到他們的臉
05:43
but they want to spread the message.
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不過他們也想要分享訊息
05:45
They want to respond. They want to say the same thing.
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他們想要回應，想要做同樣的事情
05:47
So. And now it's communication.
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因此，現在變成了交流
05:50
It's a two-way story. It's Israelis and Iranians
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是雙向的故事
05:53
sending the same message, one to each other.
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是以色列人和伊朗人互相傳遞同樣的訊息
05:56
("My Israeli Friends. I don't hate you. I don't want War.")
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（「我的以色列籍朋友，我不討厭你，
我不想要戰爭。」）
我不想要戰爭。」）
05:58
This never happened before, and this is two people
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這種事以前從來沒有發生過
06:02
supposed to be enemies, we're on the verge of a war,
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本來大家以為這兩方的人會是敵人
06:05
and suddenly people on Facebook are starting to say,
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我們身處戰爭邊緣
忽然之間人們開始在臉書上說
忽然之間人們開始在臉書上說
06:07
"I like this guy. I love those guys."
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「我喜歡這個人，我喜歡那些人。」
06:12
And it became really big at some point.
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某個時刻之後，這真的是件大事
06:16
And then it became news.
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然後新聞也開始報導了
06:19
Because when you're seeing the Middle East, you see only the bad news.
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通常你看到中東的新聞，只會有壞消息
06:24
And suddenly, there is something that was happening
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一夕之間，有件好事發生了
06:26
that was good news. So the guys on the news,
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所以這些人上了新聞
06:29
they say, "Okay, let's talk about this."
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他們說：「好吧，讓我們談談這件事。」
06:30
And they just came, and it was so much,
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然後他們來了，而且好多人
06:34
I remember one day, Michal,
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我記得有一天
06:36
she was talking with the journalist, and she was asking him,
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米歇爾和記者討論時
06:39
"Who's gonna see the show?"And he said, "Everybody."
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她問：「誰會看這個節目？」
他說：「每個人都會看。」
他說：「每個人都會看。」
06:43
So she said, "Everybody in Palestine, in where? Israel?
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她說：「巴勒斯坦的每個人，是哪裡？以色列？
06:48
Who is everybody?""Everybody."
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誰是每個人？」
「就是所有的人。」他們說
「就是所有的人。」他們說
06:51
They said, "Syria?" "Syria."
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「敘利亞？」
「敘利亞。」
「敘利亞。」
06:53
"Lebanon?""Lebanon."
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「黎巴嫩？」
「黎巴嫩。」
「黎巴嫩。」
06:55
At some point, he just said, "40 million people are going to see you today.
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然後他說：「今天有四千萬人會看到你，是每個人。」
06:59
It's everybody." The Chinese.
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也包括了中國人
07:01
And we were just at the beginning of the story.
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我們現在還只是在故事的開頭而已
07:07
Something crazy also happened.
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某件瘋狂的事情發生了
07:09
Every time a country started talking about it,
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每次只要有一個國家開始討論這件事
07:12
like Germany, America, wherever,
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像是德國、美國，或是其它國家
07:15
a page on Facebook popped up with the same logo
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臉書上就會有一個頁面出現相同的圖片和故事
07:21
with the same stories, so at the beginning
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在一開始時
07:23
we had "Iran-Loves-Israel," which is an Iranian
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我們用了「伊朗愛以色列」
07:26
sitting in Tehran, saying, "Okay, Israel loves Iran?
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這是一個伊朗人坐在德黑蘭說：「以色列愛伊朗？
07:32
I give you Iran-Loves-Israel."
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我給你伊朗愛以色列。」
07:33
You have Palestine-Loves-Israel.
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有巴勒斯坦愛以色列
07:35
You have Lebanon that just -- a few days ago.
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幾天前也有黎巴嫩
07:38
And this whole list of pages on Facebook
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這是臉書上投入這個活動的
07:41
dedicated to the same message,
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所有明細
07:43
to people sending their love, one to each other.
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人們將他們的愛傳遞給彼此
07:49
The moment I really understood that something was happening,
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在我真的了解大事發生了的那個時候
07:53
a friend of mine told me,
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我的朋友告訴我
07:55
"Google the word 'Israel.'"
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「上網搜尋『以色列』。」
07:57
And those were the first images on those days
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這是Google那幾天最先跳出來的頁面
08:01
that popped up from Google
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當你輸入
08:03
when you were typing, "Israel" or "Iran."
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「以色列」或「伊朗」時，就會跳出來的頁面
08:07
We really changed how people see the Middle East.
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我們真的改變人們對中東的看法
08:11
Because you're not in the Middle East.
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因為你不在中東
08:13
You're somewhere over there, and then you want to see the Middle East,
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你在中東以外的某個地方
08:15
so you go on Google and you say, "Israel,"
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因為你想看看中東，所以你上網搜尋了「以色列」
08:17
and they give you the bad stuff.
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然後他們給了你一堆爛帳
08:18
And for a few days you got those images.
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但是有幾天你會看到這些相片
08:23
Today the Israel-Loves-Iran page
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今天以色列愛伊朗的頁面
08:25
is this number, 80,831, and two million people last week
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有80831人次瀏覽，上個星期有兩百萬人次
08:31
went on the page and shared, liked, I don't know,
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造訪這個頁面然後分享、按讚
08:33
commented on one of the photos.
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或是留言在其中一張圖片下面
08:36
So for five months now, that's what we are doing,
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至今五個月了
08:41
me, Michal, a few of my friends, are just making images.
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我、米歇爾和我的一些朋友
08:45
We're showing a new reality
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只是做了幾張圖片
08:48
by just making images
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就改變了大家的觀感
08:50
because that's how the world perceives us.
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因為這就是人們如何看待我們
08:53
They see images of us, and they see bad images.
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人們看著我們的照片，通常會看到不好的影像
08:56
So we're working on making good images. End of story.
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所以我們想要創造新的印象
改變人們的想法，終結不好的聯想
改變人們的想法，終結不好的聯想
09:01
Look at this one. This is the Iran-Loves-Israel page.
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看看這張
這是伊朗愛以色列專頁
這是伊朗愛以色列專頁
09:05
This is not the Israel-Loves-Iran. This is not my page.
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這不是以色列愛伊朗專頁
這不是我的頁面
這不是我的頁面
09:08
This is a guy in Tehran on the day of remembrance
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這是一名德黑蘭人
09:12
of the Israeli fallen soldier
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在以色列士兵戰亡緬懷紀念日時
09:14
putting an image of an Israeli soldier on his page.
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放了一張以色列士兵的照片在他的專頁上
09:18
This is the enemy.
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這是敵軍
09:22
What?
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什麼？
09:23
("Our heartfelt condolences to the families who lost their dearests in terror attack in Bulgaria")
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（「謹向在保加利亞失去摯愛家屬的人們
致上由衷的慰問」）
致上由衷的慰問」）
09:25
And it's going both ways.
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這包含了兩種意義
09:27
It's like, we are showing respect, one to each other.
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一是我們向彼此致敬
09:31
And we're understanding. And you show compassion.
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我們理解，你也表達了同情
09:36
And you become friends.
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然後我們就變成了朋友
09:41
And at some point, you become friends on Facebook,
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在某一刻，你變成臉書上的朋友
09:44
and you become friends in life.
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然後你也成了我現實生活中的朋友
09:46
You can go and travel and meet people.
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你可以揹起行囊去探訪這些人
09:49
And I was in Munich a few weeks ago.
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幾個星期前我去了慕尼黑
09:52
I went there to open an exposition about Iran
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我去那邊召開一個關於伊朗的博覽會
09:56
and I met there with people from the page
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然後我在那邊見了一些在網路上留言的人
09:59
that told me, "Okay, you're going to be in Europe,
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他們說：「你要去歐洲的話
10:01
I'm coming. I'm coming from France, from Holland,
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我也要去，我從法國、荷蘭、德國去。」
10:04
from Germany," of course, and from Israel people came,
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當然也有從以色列來的朋友
10:06
and we just met there for the first time in real life.
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那是我們在現實生活中的首次見面
10:11
I met with people that are supposed to be my enemies
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我見了原本應該要是敵人的人們
10:15
for the first time. And we just shake hands,
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這是第一次
我們只是握握手
我們只是握握手
10:18
and have a coffee and a nice discussion,
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然後喝杯咖啡、有一段良好的談話
10:20
and we talk about food and basketball.
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我們還聊了食物和籃球
10:23
And that was the end of it.
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然後就結束了
10:24
Remember that image from the beginning?
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記得一開始的圖片嗎？
10:27
At some point we met in real life, and we became friends.
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我們在現實生活中見面後，我們就成了朋友
10:36
And it goes the other way around.
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事情有了不同的發展
10:38
Some girl that we met on Facebook
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有些我在臉書上碰到的女孩
10:41
never been in Israel, born and raised in Iran,
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從沒去過以色列，在伊朗出生、長大
10:44
lives in Germany, afraid of Israelis
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住在德國，害怕以色列人
10:48
because of what she knows about us,
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因為她過去對我們的印象是不好的
10:50
decides after a few months of talking on the Internet
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在網路上和一些以色列人聊過幾個月後
10:53
with some Israelis to come to Israel,
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她決定要到以色列
10:56
and she gets on the plane and arrives at Ben Gurion
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她搭上飛機抵達本古里安
11:01
and says, "Okay, not that big a deal."
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她說：「噢，這不是什麼大不了的事。」
11:07
So a few weeks ago, the stress is getting higher,
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幾個星期前，她的壓力變很大
11:11
so we start this new campaign
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因此我們展開了一個新的活動
11:13
called "Not ready to die in your war."
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「還沒準備好要死在你的戰爭」
11:16
I mean, it's plus/minus the same message,
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這個訊息有加分和減分的作用
11:19
but we wanted really to add some aggressivity to it.
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我們想要的是去增加她來的信心
11:23
And again, something amazing happened,
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再一次，奇妙的事情發生了
11:26
something that we didn't have on the first wave of the campaign.
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出現了在第一波活動中沒有的情況
11:29
Now people from Iran, the same ones who were shy
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在前次活動中很害羞的伊朗人
11:34
at the first campaign and just sent, you know,
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他們寄的照片
11:36
their foot and half their faces,
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只露出腳和一半的臉
11:38
now they're sending their faces, and they're saying,
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現在他們寄出了有完整臉的照片
11:40
"Okay, no problem, we're into it. We are with you."
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他們說：「沒問題，我們與你同在。」
11:49
Just read where those guys are from.
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你看這些人是從哪裡來的
11:53
And for every guy from Israel,
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對每個以色列人來說
11:55
you've got someone from Iran.
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你有伊朗人的照應了
12:06
Just people sending their pictures.
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這是一些人寄來的照片
12:27
Crazy, yes?
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很瘋狂吧！
12:29
So --
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因此
12:30
(Applause)
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（鼓掌）
12:40
So you may ask yourself, who is this dude?
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你可能會自問，這個人是誰呀？
12:47
My name is Ronny Edry, and I'm 41, I'm an Israeli,
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我的名字是朗尼．艾德瑞，41歲，以色列人
12:51
I'm a father of two, I'm a husband,
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我是兩個孩子的爸，也是丈夫
12:55
and I'm a graphic designer. I'm teaching graphic design.
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我是平面設計師，也教平面設計
13:00
And I'm not that naive, because a lot of the time
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我並不天真
13:04
I've been asked, many times I've been asked, "Yeah, but,
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我很常被問到
13:07
this is really naive, sending flowers over, I mean — "
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「這真是太天真了，送花去，我是說…」
13:10
I was in the army. I was in the paratroopers for three years,
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我曾當過三年傘兵
13:14
and I know how it looks from the ground.
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我知道那從地面看起來是什麼樣子
13:18
I know how it can look really bad.
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我知道那看起來感覺很可怕
13:22
So to me, this is the courageous thing to do,
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所以對我來說，這是一件需要鼓起勇氣做的事
13:26
to try to reach the other side before it's too late,
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在還來得及的時候去做
13:30
because when it's going to be too late, it's going to be too late.
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因為當一切都太遲了的時候，就太遲了
13:32
And sometimes war is inevitable, sometimes,
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有時候戰爭是不可避免的
13:36
but maybe [with] effort, we can avoid it.
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有時候也許我們努力一點，就可以避免它發生
13:40
Maybe as people, because especially in Israel,
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也許對人們來說，特別是在以色列
13:44
we're in a democracy. We have the freedom of speech,
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我們身在民主國度，我們有言論的自由
13:47
and maybe that little thing can change something.
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也許小小的動作可以造成很大的改變
13:50
And really, we can be our own ambassadors.
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我們可以成為自己的大使
13:55
We can just send a message and hope for the best.
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我們可以傳遞訊息，並且期待最好的結果
14:01
So I want to ask Michal, my wife, to come with me
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所以我想要邀請我太太米歇爾
14:04
on the stage just to make with you one image,
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幫我在台上為你們照張相
14:09
because it's all about images.
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因為一切都由照片而起
14:11
And maybe that image will help us change something.
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也許照片會幫我們做出改變
14:15
Just raise that. Exactly.
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只要你舉起這張紙
14:19
And I'm just going to take a picture of it,
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我來拍張照
14:21
and I'm just going to post it on Facebook
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然後貼在臉書上
14:24
with kind of "Israelis for peace" or something.
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某個頁面像是「以色列人要和平」之類的
14:32
Oh my God.
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我的天
14:35
Don't cry.
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不要哭
14:37
Thank you guys.
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謝謝大家
14:39
(Applause)
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（鼓掌）
ABOUT THE SPEAKER
Ronny Edry - Graphic DesignerRonny Edry of Israel created The Peace Factory, an online movement for peace in the Middle East, when he posted a Facebook image that declared "Iranians, we will never bomb your country."
Why you should listen
Ronny Edry is a graphic designer, teacher and father. While he often posted images on Facebook without much fanfare, in March of 2012 one of his images garnered international attention. The image showed him with his daughter, along with the words “Iranians, we will never bomb your country. We heart you.” The image became a catalyst for dialogue between the people of two nations on the brink of war -- and started an online movement. Today, The Peace Factory is connecting people throughout the Middle East, giving them a voice and a face.
Edry grew up in Paris, France, and has lived in Israel since 1989. Along with his work on the Peace Factory, he is the owner and founder of Pushpin, a school for art and design in Tel Aviv. He himself graduated with honors from the BezIalel Academy of Art and Design, and he is a staff member teaching visual communication in design academies in Israel. He has received awards for his works as a graphic designer and is also an illustrator and author of graphic novels.
Ronny Edry | Speaker | TED.com