Serious Play 2008
Philip Rosedale: Life in Second Life
菲利浦●羅斯德談第二人生
Filmed:
Readability: 3.7
603,179 views
為什要要建構一個虛擬世界？菲利浦●羅斯德和我們談論有關「第二人生」一個他建構的虛擬世界，一個從以獨特人類創意為基礎到甚麼事情都有可能發生的地方。
Philip Rosedale - Entrepreneur
Philip Rosedale (avatar "Philip Linden") is founder of Second Life, an online 3D virtual world inhabited by millions. He's chair of Linden Labs, the company behind the digital society. Full bio
Philip Rosedale (avatar "Philip Linden") is founder of Second Life, an online 3D virtual world inhabited by millions. He's chair of Linden Labs, the company behind the digital society. Full bio
Double-click the English transcript below to play the video.
00:16
You know, we're going to do things a little differently.
0
0
3000
我想，今天和往常來點不一樣的
00:19
I'm not going to show you a presentation. I'm going to talk to you.
1
3000
3000
我不打算做個很正式的簡報,而是透過聊天的方式.....
00:22
And at the same time, we're going to look at just images
2
6000
5000
同時我們會單純地看到很多圖片
00:27
from a photo stream that is pretty close to live of things that --
3
11000
5000
這些圖片都是「第二人生(Second Life)」的真實場景
00:32
snapshots from Second Life. So hopefully this will be fascinating.
4
16000
4000
希望你們會喜歡
00:36
You can -- I can compete for your attention with the strange pictures
5
20000
4000
我會持續用這些顯示在那邊螢幕上其怪的圖片來
00:40
that you see on screen that come from there.
6
24000
2000
吸引你們的注意力
00:42
I thought I'd talk a little bit about some just big ideas about this,
7
26000
5000
我想，就先從大架構開始談起
00:47
and then get John back out here so we can talk interactively
8
31000
4000
然後請John 回到台上，這樣我們可以較為互動的方式討論
00:51
a little bit more and think and ask questions.
9
35000
4000
多一點的思考及發問
00:55
You know, I guess the first question is,
10
39000
3000
首先,第一個問題是
00:58
why build a virtual world at all?
11
42000
5000
為什麼要創造一個虛擬的世界?
01:03
And I think the answer to that is always going to be
12
47000
4000
這問題的答案....你可以說是
01:07
at least driven to a certain extent by the people
13
51000
2000
我應該是瘋了吧
01:09
initially crazy enough to start the project, you know.
14
53000
5000
才會有這個異想天開的構想
01:14
So I can give you a little bit of first background just on me
15
58000
3000
這得回溯到我的成長背景
01:17
and what moved me as a -- really going back as far as a teenager
16
61000
5000
及驅使我的動力。這一切得從我青少年時代說起
01:22
and then an adult, to actually try and build this kind of thing.
17
66000
3000
然後到我成年的時候，才去真正的建構這些東西
01:25
I was a very creative kid who read a lot, and got into electronics first,
18
69000
9000
我小時候相當富有創意，也讀很多書。從電子產品開始切入
01:34
and then later, programming computers, when I was really young.
19
78000
4000
當我很年輕的時候，接著踏入電腦程式設計
01:38
I was just always trying to make things.
20
82000
4000
從很小時，我就愛嘗試自己動手做東西
01:42
I was just obsessed with taking things apart and building things,
21
86000
4000
尤其沉迷在把東西開解後再進行組裝
01:46
and just anything I could do with my hands or with wood
22
90000
4000
只要任何手工或可以完成的
01:50
or electronics or metal or anything else.
23
94000
3000
不管是木工，電子或金屬類的東西，我都愛
01:53
And so, for example -- and it's a great Second Life thing -- I had a bedroom.
24
97000
4000
舉例來說，我的臥室，像是第二人生一樣
01:57
And every kid, you know, as a teenager, has got his bedroom he retreats to --
25
101000
3000
所有小孩在青少年時代都有自己的房間，一個可以避難的地方
02:00
but I wanted my door, I thought it would be cool if my door went up
26
104000
5000
但我想要一個可以往上開啟而不是單純旋轉開啟的門
02:05
rather than opened, like on Star Trek.
27
109000
2000
像"星際爭霸戰"一樣,那有多酷!
02:07
I thought it would be neat to do that. And so I got up in the ceiling
28
111000
3000
我覺得這點子太棒了,所以我爬到天花板
02:10
and I cut through the ceiling joists, much to my parents' delight,
29
114000
5000
鑿開支撐用的托梁(我爸媽應該快瘋了吧!)
02:15
and put the door, you know, being pulled up through the ceiling.
30
119000
4000
把門從天花板往上拉
02:19
I built -- I put a garage-door opener up in the attic
31
123000
4000
我也改了車庫的門
02:23
that would pull this door up.
32
127000
2000
它可以穿過閣樓向上開啟
02:25
You can imagine the amount of time that it took me to do this to the house
33
129000
5000
不難想像我花了多少時間做這些改造
02:30
and the displeasure of my parents.
34
134000
2000
和使我父母不高興
02:32
The thing that was always striking to me was that we as people
35
136000
3000
最令我不解的是,身為一個人
02:35
could have so many really amazing ideas about things we'd like to do,
36
139000
5000
明明有很多我們喜歡做的事的點子
02:40
but are so often unable, in the real world, to actually do those things --
37
144000
6000
然而在現實生活中,實際能做到事卻少又少
02:46
to actually cobble together the materials
38
150000
3000
既不能湊齊所需材料
02:49
and go through the actual execution phase of building something
39
153000
3000
更遑論將腦海中的設計藍圖
02:52
that you imagine from a design perspective.
40
156000
2000
變成具體執行的步驟
02:54
And so for me, I know that when the Internet came around
41
158000
3000
至於我,隨著網路逐漸普及
02:57
and I was doing computer programming and just, you know,
42
161000
3000
除了從事電腦程式設計的工作外
03:00
just generally trying to run my own little company
43
164000
3000
也想著如何利用網路及電腦
03:03
and figure out what to do with the Internet and with computers,
44
167000
3000
著手自行創業
03:06
I was just immediately struck by how the ultimate thing
45
170000
6000
突然有天靈光一閃
03:12
that you would really want to do with the Internet and with computers
46
176000
3000
我最想在網路及電腦上做的事情
03:15
would be to use the Internet and connected computers
47
179000
3000
就是透過網路及電腦
03:18
to simulate a world to sort of recreate the laws of physics
48
182000
7000
去模擬創造一個虛擬世界, 這個世界不但有新的物理法則
03:25
and the rules of how things went together --
49
189000
4000
也改變了萬事萬物的定律
03:29
the sort of -- the idea of atoms and how to make things,
50
193000
3000
就像是原子可以重組成新分子的概念
03:32
and do that inside a computer so that we could all get in there and make stuff.
51
196000
6000
利用電腦建構這樣一個虛擬世界的想法
03:38
And so for me that was the thing that was so enticing.
52
202000
4000
對我來說實在太誘人了
03:42
I just wanted this place where you could build things.
53
206000
3000
我只是想要一個地方能讓我自由創造
03:45
And so I think you see that in the genesis
54
209000
3000
我相信現在你們了解了
03:48
of what has happened with Second Life, and I think it's important.
55
212000
4000
"第二人生"的源起,這非常重要
03:52
I also think that more generally, the use of the Internet and technology
56
216000
6000
普遍來說,網路科技的應用已提供一個
03:58
as a kind of a space between us for creativity and design is a general trend.
57
222000
6000
嶄新的創造及設計發展的平台
04:04
It is a -- sort of a great human progress.
58
228000
3000
這是人類發展的一大突破
04:07
Technology is just generally being used to allow us to create
59
231000
6000
科技的應用使我們能夠建立
04:13
in as shared and social a way as possible.
60
237000
3000
一個交流分享和社交的方式
04:16
And I think that Second Life and virtual worlds more generally
61
240000
2000
而我相信,"第二人生"或其他虛擬世界
04:18
represent the best we can do to achieve that right now.
62
242000
5000
可說是目前網路科技應用的極致
04:23
You know, another way to look at that,
63
247000
2000
換個角度來看
04:25
and related to the content and, you know, thinking about space,
64
249000
3000
好比外太空
04:28
is to connect sort of virtual worlds to space.
65
252000
3000
如果將虛擬的世界和宇宙空間結合
04:31
I thought that might be a fun thing to talk about for a second.
66
255000
3000
這很有趣,我想多談一些
04:34
If you think about going into space, it's a fascinating thing.
67
258000
5000
試想如果你能進入外太空,那有多酷!
04:39
So many movies, so many kids, we all sort of
68
263000
3000
很多電影情節,很多小孩
04:42
dream about exploring space. Now, why is that?
69
266000
3000
多多少少都夢想過,這是為什麼呢?
04:45
Stop for a moment and ask, why that conceit?
70
269000
2000
停下來想想看, 為什麼人這麼想呢?
04:47
Why do we as people want to do that?
71
271000
4000
為什麼人類會想進入外太空呢?
04:51
I think there's a couple of things. It's what we see in the movies --
72
275000
2000
原因很多, 正如我們在電影中看到的
04:53
you know, it's this dream that we all share.
73
277000
3000
進入外太空幾乎是人類共同的夢想
04:56
One is that if you went into space you'd be able to begin again.
74
280000
5000
原因之一是當你進到太空中人生有了重新開始的機會
05:01
In some sense, you would become someone else in that journey,
75
285000
3000
在某些面向來看，你在那個旅途中變成另外一個人
05:04
because there wouldn't be -- you'd leave society and life as you know it, behind.
76
288000
5000
離開你所熟悉的環境
05:09
And so inevitably, you would transform yourself --
77
293000
3000
你的一切無可避免地都將改變
05:12
irreversibly, in all likelihood -- as you began this exploration.
78
296000
4000
當你進入這個探索後你將無可避免的，無可復原的徹底改變
05:16
And then the second thing is that there's this tangible sense
79
300000
4000
第二個原因是那種身歷其境的感覺
05:20
that if you travel far enough, you can find out there --
80
304000
6000
如果你走得夠遠,你會發現
05:26
oh, yeah -- you have no idea what you're going to find
81
310000
3000
你不知道你下一步會遇到什麼
05:29
once you get there, into space.
82
313000
2000
一旦進入外太空
05:31
It's going to be different than here.
83
315000
2000
所有事情和這裡都不一樣
05:33
And in fact, it's going to be so different than what we see here on earth
84
317000
5000
和我們所熟悉的地球完全不同
05:38
that anything is going to be possible.
85
322000
3000
在這裡凡事都有可能
05:41
So that's kind of the idea -- we as humans crave the idea of
86
325000
3000
就是這種感覺，人們發展這一個概念
05:44
creating a new identity and going into a place where anything is possible.
87
328000
5000
擁有有新的身份,進入新的地方,創造新的可能
05:49
And I think that if you really sit and think about it,
88
333000
3000
我相信如果你真的坐下來認真思考
05:52
virtual worlds, and where we're going
89
336000
4000
這虛擬世界
05:56
with more and more computing technology,
90
340000
4000
有著更多的電腦科技
06:00
represent essentially the likely, really tactically possible
91
344000
6000
實際上就像是
06:06
version of space exploration.
92
350000
2000
更真實的太空歷險
06:08
We are moved by the idea of virtual worlds because, like space,
93
352000
5000
虛擬世界就像外太空一樣
06:13
they allow us to reinvent ourselves and they contain anything
94
357000
4000
可以重新改變自己
06:17
and everything, and probably anything could happen there.
95
361000
2000
讓任何事都變得可能
06:19
You know, to give you a size idea about scale, you know,
96
363000
3000
說到規模
06:22
comparing space to Second Life, most people don't realize, kind of --
97
366000
4000
若拿外太空和第二人生相比,很多人不了解
06:26
and then this is just like the Internet in the early '90s.
98
370000
3000
這就好比90年代初期的網路
06:29
In fact, Second Life virtual worlds are a lot like the Internet in the early '90s today:
99
373000
3000
事實上,第二人生就像當時的網路一樣
06:32
everybody's very excited,
100
376000
2000
讓人興奮不已
06:34
there's a lot of hype and excitement about one idea or the next
101
378000
3000
任何新的概念都容易引起話題
06:37
from moment to moment, and then there's despair
102
381000
3000
但一段時間過後,失望感油然而生
06:40
and everybody thinks the whole thing's not going to work.
103
384000
2000
並且大家會認為所有的事情都不可行
06:42
Everything that's happening with Second Life
104
386000
2000
第二人生經歷過的所有事情
06:44
and more broadly with virtual worlds, all happened in the early '90s.
105
388000
3000
其他虛擬世界經歷過的,都和90年代網路萌芽時一樣
06:47
We always play a game at the office where you can take any article
106
391000
3000
我們都玩過一種遊戲,隨便找一篇文章
06:50
and find the same article where you just replace the words "Second Life"
107
394000
4000
把裡頭"網站"替換成"第二人生"
06:54
with "Web," and "virtual reality" with "Internet."
108
398000
5000
把"網路"替換成"虛擬實境"
06:59
You can find exactly the same articles
109
403000
2000
結果發現
07:01
written about everything that people are observing.
110
405000
4000
原先文章想表達的內容並不因此有所改變
07:05
To give you an idea of scale, Second Life is about 20,000 CPUs at this point.
111
409000
7000
再談到規模,"第二人生"目前由2萬個CPU來運作
07:12
It's about 20,000 computers connected together
112
416000
2000
意思是由2萬台電腦
07:14
in three facilities in the United States right now,
113
418000
4000
透過三個中心相互連接
07:18
that are simulating this virtual space. And the virtual space itself --
114
422000
4000
來模擬這個虛擬世界和自己的虛擬空間
07:22
there's about 250,000 people a day that are wandering around in there,
115
426000
4000
在這裡每天平圴有25萬人駐足
07:26
so the kind of, active population is something like a smallish city.
116
430000
4000
上線人數相當於一個小型城市的人口規模
07:30
The space itself is about 10 times the size of San Francisco,
117
434000
4000
而這虛擬空間大約是舊金山的10倍大
07:34
and it's about as densely built out.
118
438000
3000
而且用同樣的密度建造的
07:37
So it gives you an idea of scale. Now, it's expanding very rapidly --
119
441000
3000
現在你可以想像它的規模,但同時它拓展的速度也很快
07:40
about five percent a month or so right now, in terms of new servers being added.
120
444000
4000
伺服器大約以每個月5%的速率持續擴充
07:44
And so of course, radically unlike the real world,
121
448000
3000
當然, 這在實體世界無法想像
07:47
and like the Internet, the whole thing is expanding
122
451000
2000
網路正以迅雷不及掩耳
07:49
very, very quickly, and historically exponentially.
123
453000
3000
一日千里的速度飛快成長
07:52
So that sort of space exploration thing is matched up here
124
456000
3000
但要維持爆炸性成長的動能
07:55
by the amount of content that's in there,
125
459000
2000
取決於包羅萬象,多采多姿的內容
07:57
and I think that amount is critical.
126
461000
2000
我覺得內容是關鍵
07:59
It was critical with the virtual world
127
463000
2000
它是創造無限可能的關鍵
08:01
that it be this space of truly infinite possibility.
128
465000
3000
這在虛擬世界尤其如此
08:04
We're very sensitive to that as humans.
129
468000
2000
人其實很敏感的
08:06
You know, you know when you see it. You know when you can do anything in a space
130
470000
3000
初次接觸的剎那
08:09
and you know when you can't.
131
473000
2000
就知道結果了
08:11
Second Life today is this 20,000 machines,
132
475000
2000
今天的第二人生雖然僅是這2萬台機器
08:13
and it's about 100 million or so user-created objects where, you know,
133
477000
4000
它卻包含了1億個,由使用者開發出來的創意
08:17
an object would be something like this, possibly interactive.
134
481000
3000
這些創意可能像是這樣
08:20
Tens of millions of them are thinking all the time;
135
484000
2000
同時可能有數仟萬人在想同樣的事
08:22
they have code attached to them.
136
486000
2000
而僅僅以簡單的帳號及密碼,就能連結所有的人
08:24
So it's a really large world already, in terms of the amount of stuff that's there
137
488000
3000
虛擬世界的規模之大超乎你的想像
08:27
and that's very important.
138
491000
2000
帶來的影響絕不可小覷
08:29
If anybody plays, like, World of Warcraft,
139
493000
2000
拿"魔獸世界"來說
08:31
World of Warcraft comes on, like, four DVDs.
140
495000
3000
約4片DVD的大小
08:34
Second Life, by comparison, has about 100 terabytes
141
498000
4000
而第二人生,則約有100TB由使用者建立資料的容量
08:38
of user-created data, making it about 25,000 times larger.
142
502000
5000
整整比魔獸世界大了25,000倍
08:43
So again, like the Internet compared to AOL,
143
507000
4000
同樣地,拿網路和"美國線上"來說
08:47
and the sort of chat rooms and content on AOL at the time,
144
511000
2000
在當時"美國線上"的聊天室或其他內容
08:49
what's happening here is something very different,
145
513000
2000
和第二人生是很不一樣的
08:51
because the sheer scale of what people can do
146
515000
3000
因為現在人們可以做的事情
08:54
when they're enabled to do anything they want is pretty amazing.
147
518000
4000
種類之繁多令人眼花撩亂
08:58
The last big thought is that it is almost certainly true
148
522000
4000
最後一個想法,也可以說是事實
09:02
that whatever this is going to evolve into
149
526000
3000
無論第二人生未來走向為何
09:05
is going to be bigger in total usage than the Web itself.
150
529000
4000
虛擬世界的功能要比網路本身重要得多
09:09
And let me justify that with two statements.
151
533000
3000
我可以證明這兩個論點
09:12
Generically, what we use the Web for is to organize, exchange,
152
536000
4000
一般而言,我們使用網路是為了組織,交換
09:16
create and consume information.
153
540000
2000
創造及消化各類資訊
09:18
It's kind of like Irene talking about Google being data-driven.
154
542000
4000
這好比Irene剛談到的,我們使用Google 來搜尋資訊
09:22
I'd say I kind of think about the world as being information.
155
546000
3000
試著想像這世界係由訊息組成
09:25
Everything that we interact with, all the experiences that we have,
156
549000
3000
我們所交流, 所經歷的每件事
09:28
is kind of us flowing through a sea of information
157
552000
2000
就像是遊蕩在資訊大海中
09:30
and interacting with it in different ways.
158
554000
3000
只是用不同的方式進行互動
09:33
The Web puts information in the form of text and images.
159
557000
6000
網路用內容和影像呈現它要表達的訊息
09:39
The topology, the geography of the Web is text-to-text links for the most part.
160
563000
5000
網路的拓樸結構,地理結構是構成文對文連接最重要的部份
09:44
That's one way of organizing information,
161
568000
3000
這也是組織資訊的一種方式
09:47
but there are two things about the way you access information in a virtual world
162
571000
5000
但在虛擬世界裡有另外二種方式
09:52
that I think are the important ways that they're very different
163
576000
3000
這也顯示為何虛擬世界是如此不同
09:55
and much better than what we've been able to do to date with the Web.
164
579000
4000
且遠比和網路互動來得重要的原因
09:59
The first is that, as I said, the --
165
583000
4000
第一個原因,如我之前提過的
10:03
well, the first difference for virtual worlds is that
166
587000
3000
虛擬世界的第一個不同
10:06
information is presented to you in the virtual world
167
590000
3000
是它利用具強烈代表性的符號
10:09
using the most powerful iconic symbols
168
593000
4000
具體呈現要表達的訊息
10:13
that you can possibly use with human beings.
169
597000
2000
這在實體世界很難做到
10:15
So for example, C-H-A-I-R is the English word for that,
170
599000
5000
比方說,椅子的英文拼音是CHAIR
10:20
but a picture of this is a universal symbol.
171
604000
5000
而這圖案是全球通用的符號
10:25
Everybody knows what it means. There's no need to translate it.
172
609000
3000
所有人一看就知道,不需要任何的解釋
10:28
It's also more memorable if I show you that picture,
173
612000
3000
我先給你看圖案
10:31
and I show you C-H-A-I-R on a piece of paper.
174
615000
2000
和一張寫上"椅子"的紙
10:33
You can do tests that show that you'll remember
175
617000
3000
這已經使你印象深刻,你再試試看
10:36
that I was talking about a chair a couple of days later a lot better.
176
620000
3000
幾天之後當我們再談起"椅子", 你會記得更牢
10:39
So when you organize information using the symbols of our memory,
177
623000
4000
所以利用符號，利用記憶中的符號
10:43
using the most common symbols that we've been immersed in all our lives,
178
627000
4000
利用這些充斥於生活中,隨處可見的符號
10:47
you maximally both excite, stimulate,
179
631000
4000
能使得記憶,傳輸和處理數據
10:51
are able to remember, transfer and manipulate data.
180
635000
2000
發揮和激盪出最大效益
10:53
And so virtual worlds are the best way
181
637000
4000
因此虛擬的網路環境絶對是
10:57
for us to essentially organize and experience information.
182
641000
4000
幫助我們處理和體驗訊息最好的方法
11:01
And I think that's something that people have talked about for 20 years --
183
645000
3000
雖然3D影像技術已經被談論將近20年了
11:04
you know, that 3D, that lifelike environments
184
648000
4000
但它所帶來的逼真虛擬實境
11:08
are really important in some magical way to us.
185
652000
2000
至今依然令人驚奇
11:10
But the second thing -- and I think this one is less obvious --
186
654000
4000
第二個原因,可能沒那麼明顯
11:14
is that the experience of creating, consuming, exploring that information
187
658000
8000
我們在創造,消化以及探索資訊的過程中
11:22
is in the virtual world implicitly and inherently social.
188
666000
5000
虛擬世界所隱含固有的社群經驗
11:27
You are always there with other people.
189
671000
3000
不論何時何地,一定有人和你同時上線
11:30
And we as humans are social creatures and must, or are aided by,
190
674000
6000
人類是群居動物，必須要經由協助
11:36
or enjoy more, the consumption of information in the presence of others.
191
680000
5000
我們需要與別人分享,互動來處理資訊
11:41
It's essential to us. You can't escape it.
192
685000
3000
這很重要,你不能逃脫這個模式
11:44
When you're on Amazon.com and you're looking for digital cameras or whatever,
193
688000
5000
當你上"亞馬遜"網站試著找一台數位相機
11:49
you're on there right now, when you're on the site, with like 5,000 other people,
194
693000
6000
你可能發現同時有5000人在線上,也在這網站上
11:55
but you can't talk to them.
195
699000
2000
但你無法和他們交談
11:57
You can't just turn to the people that are browsing digital cameras
196
701000
4000
你無法和這群和你同樣在瀏覽著數位相機的人
12:01
on the same page as you, and ask them,
197
705000
3000
並且問他們
12:04
"Hey, have you seen one of these before? Because I'm thinking about buying it."
198
708000
3000
"你有看過這款嗎?我想買耶!"
12:07
That experience of like, shopping together, just as a simple example,
199
711000
4000
這種互動的經驗,簡單來說,像是一起逛街
12:11
is an example of how as social creatures
200
715000
2000
是一種人與人間的交流
12:13
we want to experience information in that way.
201
717000
2000
我們需要與人分享
12:15
So that second point, that we inherently experience information together
202
719000
6000
所以第二點是, 我們與生俱來就和別人一起體驗資訊
12:21
or want to experience it together,
203
725000
2000
或者想要一起體驗
12:23
is critical to essentially, kind of,
204
727000
3000
基本上來說很難, 有點像是
12:26
this trend of where we're going to use technology to connect us.
205
730000
5000
我們要用這個科技把我們聯繫在一起的趨勢
12:31
And so I think, again, that it's likely that in the next decade or so
206
735000
5000
而我想, 此外, 應該在下個十年左右
12:36
these virtual worlds are going to be the most common way as human beings
207
740000
5000
這些虛擬世界將會變成最頻繁的方式
12:41
that we kind of use the electronics of the Internet, if you will,
208
745000
5000
就像是我們使用網路，你們也會
12:46
to be together, to consume information.
209
750000
4000
肩並肩，一起處理資訊
12:50
You know, mapping in India -- that's such a great example.
210
754000
2000
舉一個極為貼切的例子：為印度畫地圖
12:52
Maybe the solution there involves talking to other people in real time.
211
756000
5000
解決問題的辦法可能包含和現實世界的人交談
12:57
Asking for advice, rather than any possible way
212
761000
5000
詢問相關建議，而非給予
13:02
that you could just statically organize a map.
213
766000
4000
技巧性的組織一個地圖的所有可能的方法
13:06
So I think that's another big point.
214
770000
2000
我認為這又是另外一個重點
13:08
I think that wherever this is all going,
215
772000
2000
我想不管這些事情怎麼去發展
13:10
whether it's Second Life or its descendants, or something broader
216
774000
5000
不管是「第二人生」或其更寬更廣的衍生
13:15
that happens all around the world at a lot of different points --
217
779000
3000
都在全世界各個角落有著不同面向的發展
13:18
this is what we're going to see the Internet used for,
218
782000
3000
這正是我們要看網路使用的目的
13:21
and total traffic and total unique users is going to invert,
219
785000
4000
和所有流量及各個獨一無二的使用者
13:25
so that the Web and its bibliographic set of text and graphical information
220
789000
5000
因此網路中每組書目的文字及圖像的資訊
13:30
is going to become a tool or a part of that consumption pattern,
221
794000
3000
將會成為處理資訊的一部分或一個工具
13:33
but the pattern itself is going to happen mostly in this type of an environment.
222
797000
4000
但這種模式大部分會發生在網路這種環境裡
13:37
Big idea, but I think highly defensible.
223
801000
4000
這一個好的想法，
13:41
So let me stop there and bring John back,
224
805000
3000
就讓我停在這然後把約翰帶回來
13:44
and maybe we can just have a longer conversation.
225
808000
3000
或許我們可以有一個更長的談話
13:47
Thank you. John. That's great.
226
811000
2000
謝謝。約翰，這樣很棒。
13:49
(Applause)
227
813000
5000
（掌聲）
13:54
John Hockenberry: Why is the creation, the impulse to create Second Life,
228
818000
4000
約翰●哈根培力(以下簡稱JH)：為什麼是創造力創造了"第二人生"
13:58
not a utopian impulse?
229
822000
3000
而非烏托邦??
14:01
Like for example, in the 19th century,
230
825000
2000
舉一個例子來說，在19世紀
14:03
any number of works of literature that imagined alternative worlds
231
827000
4000
為數可觀的文學作品想像另一個替代的世界
14:07
were explicitly utopian.
232
831000
2000
單純都是烏托邦
14:09
Philip Rosedale: I think that's great. That's such a deep question. Yeah.
233
833000
4000
菲利浦●羅斯德(以下簡稱PR)：我認為這是一個很棒很深的問題
14:13
Is a virtual world likely to be a utopia, would be one way I'd say it.
234
837000
5000
虛擬世界難道都像烏托邦一樣嗎?
14:18
The answer is no, and I think the reason why is because
235
842000
4000
答案是否定的。原因在於
14:22
the Web itself as a good example is profoundly bottoms-up.
236
846000
3000
網路自己本身就是一個很深刻的例子
14:25
That idea of infinite possibility, that magic of anything can happen,
237
849000
5000
甚麼事情都有可能發生這一個無窮的機會
14:30
only happens in an environment
238
854000
2000
只會在一個環境下發生
14:32
where you really know that there's a fundamental freedom
239
856000
3000
一個發自於底層自由的環境
14:35
at the level of the individual actor, at the level of the Lego blocks,
240
859000
4000
在每一個獨立個體，在每一層樂高積木下
14:39
if you will, that make up the virtual world.
241
863000
2000
虛擬世界也因而建立
14:41
You have to have that level of freedom, and so I'm often asked that,
242
865000
3000
我常常要求說，你必須要擁有這些程度的自由
14:44
you know, is there a, kind of, utopian or,
243
868000
2000
你想知道，是否存在類似烏托邦
14:46
is there a utopian tendency to Second Life and things like it,
244
870000
3000
或是有類似於烏托邦趨勢
14:49
that you would create a world that has a grand scheme to it?
245
873000
3000
並且在一個龐大的架構下建立的「第二人生」
14:52
Those top-down schemes are alienating to just about everybody,
246
876000
4000
這些由上而下的框架會漸漸地違背大家
14:56
even if you mean well when you build them.
247
880000
3000
即使你當初立意良善的建造
14:59
And what's more, human society, when it's controlled,
248
883000
4000
另外，在一個受到控制下的人類社會
15:03
when you set out a grand scheme of rules,
249
887000
2000
當你設立出一系列規則
15:05
a new way of people interacting, or a new way of laying out a city, or whatever,
250
889000
4000
新的人與人之間的互動方式，或是一個新的都市規劃等
15:09
that stuff historically has never scaled much beyond,
251
893000
3000
這些東西在過育歷史上從未被料到
15:12
you know -- I always laughingly say -- the Mall of America, you know,
252
896000
3000
我常常笑著說，"The Mall of America"
15:15
which is like, the largest piece of centrally designed architecture
253
899000
3000
就像是一大件經由統一設計規劃
15:18
that, you know, has been built.
254
902000
2000
已經建造完成的建築物
15:20
JH: The Kremlin was pretty big.
255
904000
2000
JH:克林姆林宮很大
15:22
PR: The Kremlin, yeah. That's true. The whole complex.
256
906000
3000
PR:沒錯，整體上很大
15:25
JH: Give me a story of a tool you created at the beginning
257
909000
4000
JH:告訴我你當初是怎麼做出來的
15:29
in Second Life that you were pretty sure people would want to use
258
913000
3000
在第二人生裡面你很篤定人們喜歡使用
15:32
in the creation of their avatars or in communicating
259
916000
3000
當人們要製造呈現在虛擬世界的自己或是利用在溝通上面
15:35
that people actually in practice said, no, I'm not interested in that at all,
260
919000
4000
但結果經由一些人使用後又完全對這些東西沒興趣
15:39
and name something that you didn't come up with
261
923000
5000
同時列出一些你當初沒有想到
15:44
that almost immediately people began to demand.
262
928000
3000
但又有許多人很需要的東西
15:47
PR: I'm sure I can think of multiple examples of both of those.
263
931000
3000
PR:我相信我可以找到許多關於這兩個問題的例子
15:50
One of my favorites. I had this feature that I built into Second Life --
264
934000
3000
舉一個在第二人生我做的東西當中我最喜歡的東西當例子
15:53
I was really passionate about it.
265
937000
2000
我對這樣東西充滿熱情
15:55
It was an ability to kind of walk up close to somebody
266
939000
3000
這個東西讓我們可以走向前靠近任何一個人
15:58
and have a more private conversation,
267
942000
2000
藉此可以擁有一個更私密的對談
16:00
but it wasn't instant messaging because you had to sort of befriend somebody.
268
944000
3000
但這又不像是即時通訊，因為你必須要先向對方示好
16:03
It was just this idea that you could kind of have a private chat.
269
947000
3000
這就像進行一個私人的談話
16:06
I just remember it was one of those examples of data-driven design.
270
950000
3000
那是一個資料驅動的設計
16:09
I thought it was such a good idea from my perspective,
271
953000
2000
我想像這會是一個極為棒的想法
16:11
and it was just absolutely never used, and we ultimately --
272
955000
3000
但他從未被實際運用
16:14
I think we've now turned it off, if I remember.
273
958000
2000
現在整個功能已被停用
16:16
We finally gave up, took it out of the code.
274
960000
3000
我們終於放棄它，把它從原始碼中抽了出來
16:19
But more generally, you know, one other example I think about this,
275
963000
4000
另外一個廣泛的例子
16:23
which is great relative to the utopian idea.
276
967000
3000
一個有輒烏托邦概念的點子
16:26
Second Life originally had 16 simulators. It now has 20,000.
277
970000
5000
第二人生原本只有16組模擬器。現在他擴到了兩萬組
16:31
So when it only had 16,
278
975000
2000
在只有16組模擬器的時代裡
16:33
it was only about as big as this college campus.
279
977000
3000
它的規模就像這座大學校園
16:36
And we had -- we zoned it, you know: we put a nightclub,
280
980000
4000
我們還規劃了夜店
16:40
we put a disco where you could dance,
281
984000
2000
並且放了讓大家可以跳舞的迪斯可
16:42
and then we had a place where you could fight with guns if you wanted to,
282
986000
4000
另外還有一個可以讓你和別人拿槍單挑的地方
16:46
and we had another place that was like a boardwalk, kind of a Coney Island.
283
990000
4000
還有另一個地方有著又長又寬的走道，有點像是康尼島
16:50
And we laid out the zoning, but of course,
284
994000
3000
我們針對每一區大致上作了規劃，當然
16:53
people could build all around it however they wanted to.
285
997000
3000
人們也可以隨心所欲的在任何地方大興土木
16:56
And what was so amazing right from the start was that the idea
286
1000000
4000
令人驚訝的是這些想法
17:00
that we had put out in the zoning concept, basically,
287
1004000
4000
分區規劃的想法一剛開始
17:04
was instantly and thoroughly ignored,
288
1008000
2000
是全盤的被忽略的
17:06
and like, two months into the whole thing,
289
1010000
3000
最後我們用了兩個月的時間一手打造這個分區的概念
17:09
-- which is really a small amount of time, even in Second Life time --
290
1013000
3000
說實在的兩個月的時間不是很長，就像是第二人生的時間一樣
17:12
I remember the users, the people who were then using Second Life,
291
1016000
4000
我記得第二人生的使用者
17:16
the residents came to me and said, we want to buy the disco --
292
1020000
4000
這位居民向我想買下迪斯可的意願
17:20
because I had built it -- we want to buy that land and raze it
293
1024000
4000
他們想要買下那塊土地然後在摧毀再建
17:24
and put houses on it. And I sold it to them --
294
1028000
3000
然後蓋一些房子在那邊。
17:27
I mean, we transferred ownership and they had a big party
295
1031000
2000
轉交產權給他們
17:29
and blew up the entire building.
296
1033000
2000
然後他們在摧毀整棟建築物
17:31
And I remember that that was just so telling, you know,
297
1035000
4000
我這麼舉例只想讓你知道
17:35
that you didn't know exactly what was going to happen.
298
1039000
2000
你永遠不能預期即將要發生的事情
17:37
When you think about stuff that people have built that's popular --
299
1041000
3000
當其他人建造一些很受歡迎建築物的時候
17:40
JH: CBGB's has to close eventually, you know. That's the rule.
300
1044000
3000
JH:CBGB酒吧(被公認是龐克音樂的誕生地)最終還是不敵關門大吉的命運
17:43
PR: Exactly. And it -- but it closed on day one, basically, in Internet time.
301
1047000
5000
PR:沒錯！在網路時間上它只關門一天
17:49
You know, an example of something -- pregnancy.
302
1053000
3000
來舉個例子：懷孕
17:52
You can have a baby in Second Life.
303
1056000
3000
你可以在第二人生裡面生小來
17:55
This is done entirely using, kind of, the tools that are built into Second Life,
304
1059000
6000
這些可以藉由第二人生裡面的一些工具
18:01
so the innate concept of becoming pregnant and having a baby, of course --
305
1065000
4000
這些懷孕生子的概念
18:05
Second Life is, at the platform level, at the level of the company -- at Linden Lab --
306
1069000
5000
在公司層面的第二人生平台，在蘭登實驗室
18:10
Second Life has no game properties to it whatsoever.
307
1074000
3000
第二人生裡面沒有遊戲成分在
18:13
There is no attempt to structure the experience,
308
1077000
2000
我們完全沒有想要有整個生小孩過程的嘗試
18:15
to make it utopian in that sense that we put into it.
309
1079000
3000
因此我們轉向放一些烏托邦概念進去
18:18
So of course, we never would have put a mechanism for having babies or, you know,
310
1082000
3000
也因如此，我們不可能有生小孩的過程
18:21
taking two avatars and merging them, or something.
311
1085000
3000
也就是讓兩個虛擬人結合或是其它的
18:24
But people built the ability to have babies and care for babies
312
1088000
5000
但是人們添加了擁有小嬰兒並照顧他的能力
18:29
as a purchasable experience that you can have in Second Life and so --
313
1093000
4000
當作一個付費的第二人生擴充功能
18:33
I mean, that's a pretty fascinating example of, you know,
314
1097000
3000
我覺得這是一個令人讚嘆的點子
18:36
what goes on in the overall economy.
315
1100000
2000
整個消費上的制度和想法
18:38
And of course, the existence of an economy is another idea.
316
1102000
2000
當然經濟消費的另外一個想法
18:40
I didn't talk about it, but it's a critical feature.
317
1104000
3000
我在這裡不多做說明，因為他是一個棘手的制度
18:43
When people are given the opportunity to create in the world,
318
1107000
3000
當人在這個世界上被賦予創造的能力
18:46
there's really two things they want.
319
1110000
2000
其中有兩樣事情他們想要
18:48
One is fair ownership of the things they create.
320
1112000
3000
其中一個是對他們創造的東西有合理的所有權
18:51
And then the second one is -- if they feel like it,
321
1115000
2000
另外一個是
18:53
and they're not going to do it in every case, but in many they are --
322
1117000
2000
雖然這可能不是一定會發生，但有時候
18:55
they want to actually be able to sell that creation
323
1119000
4000
他們會想要隨時買賣創造出來的東西
18:59
as a way of providing for their own livelihood.
324
1123000
2000
作為一個維持他們生活的依據
19:01
True on the Web -- also true in Second Life.
325
1125000
3000
不管事在網路或是第二人生這兩條準則都適用
19:04
And so the existence of an economy is critical.
326
1128000
2000
也因此經濟活動的存在很關鍵
19:06
JH: Questions for Philip Rosedale? Right here.
327
1130000
4000
JH:有觀眾要問菲利浦●羅斯德問題的嗎?那邊那位
19:10
(Audience: Well, first an observation, which is that you look like a character.)
328
1134000
3000
觀眾:據我觀察，擬向其中一位虛擬人物
19:13
JH: The observation is, Philip has been accused of looking like a character,
329
1137000
5000
JH:這位觀眾所做的觀察，菲利浦被說像是一個
19:18
an avatar, in Second Life.
330
1142000
2000
在第二人生的虛擬人物
19:20
Respond, and then we'll get the rest of your question.
331
1144000
2000
先讓飛利浦回答，等會再讓你問完問題
19:22
PR: But I don't look like my avatar.
332
1146000
2000
PR:但我和我的西你人物完全不像阿
19:24
(Laughter)
333
1148000
2000
(笑)
19:26
How many people here know what my avatar looks like?
334
1150000
2000
在座各位有誰知道我的虛擬人物長怎樣?
19:28
That's probably not very many.
335
1152000
2000
可能大部分的人都不知道吧
19:30
JH: Are you ripping off somebody else's avatar with that, sort of --
336
1154000
2000
JH:你是不是會用別人的人物改造成自己的?
19:32
PR: No, no. I didn't. One of the other guys at work had a fantastic avatar --
337
1156000
3000
PR:不我不會。但我同事做了一個很炫的人物
19:35
a female avatar -- that I used to be once in a while.
338
1159000
3000
我曾經用了一段時間的女性人物
19:38
But my avatar is a guy wearing chaps.
339
1162000
6000
但我的人物是一位穿著長布褲的男生
19:45
Spiky hair -- spikier than this. Kind of orange hair.
340
1169000
3000
比我現在頭髮還尖刺的橙色刺蝟頭
19:48
Handlebar mustache. Kind of a Village People sort of a character.
341
1172000
5000
並留著絡腮鬍。像是一位村民
19:53
So, very cool.
342
1177000
2000
哇真酷
19:55
JH: And your question?
343
1179000
2000
JH:你的問題是
19:57
(Audience: [Unclear].)
344
1181000
3000
(聲音太小聽不見)
20:00
JH: The question is, there appears to be a lack of cultural fine-tuning in Second Life.
345
1184000
6000
JH:問題是這樣的，就是說第二人生好像少了點文化元素
20:06
It doesn't seem to have its own culture,
346
1190000
2000
他好像並沒有形成自己的文化
20:08
and the sort of differences that exist in the real world
347
1192000
2000
像是世界上的文化差異性
20:10
aren't translated into the Second Life map.
348
1194000
3000
好像並沒有在第二人生裡面出現
20:13
PR: Well, first of all, we're very early,
349
1197000
2000
PR:首先
20:15
so this has only been going on for a few years.
350
1199000
3000
第二人生的成立只有短短幾年
20:18
And so part of what we see is the same evolution of human behavior
351
1202000
3000
所以我們看到的這些部分有點類似於在這社會中出現的
20:21
that you see in emerging societies.
352
1205000
2000
人類行為的演化
20:23
So a fair criticism -- is what it is -- of Second Life today is that
353
1207000
4000
對於第二人生比較合理的說法我想
20:27
it's more like the Wild West than it is like Rome, from a cultural standpoint.
354
1211000
5000
他在文化的角度來說比較像是西部大拓荒而非羅馬
20:32
That said, the evolution of, and the nuanced interaction that creates culture,
355
1216000
6000
文化之間細微的演變
20:38
is happening at 10 times the speed of the real world,
356
1222000
3000
正在以相較於現實世界10倍的速度進化著的
20:41
and in an environment where, if you walk into a bar in Second Life,
357
1225000
5000
一個環境。當你走進一家酒吧
20:46
65 percent of the people there are not in the United States,
358
1230000
3000
有6成5的人不是住在美國
20:49
and in fact are speaking their, you know, various and different languages.
359
1233000
5000
事實上他們也說著各種不同的語言
20:54
In fact, one of the ways to make money in Second Life
360
1238000
2000
在第二人生裡面賺錢的一個方法是
20:56
is to make really cool translators that you drag onto your body
361
1240000
5000
做出一個可以嵌入每一個虛擬人物的體中翻譯工具
21:01
and they basically, kind of, pop up on your screen
362
1245000
2000
基本上這工具會這麼運作：一個彈跳的視窗出現
21:03
and allow you to use Google or Babel Fish
363
1247000
3000
讓你可以使用GOOGLE或是Babelfish(一個翻譯系統)
21:06
or one of the other online text translators to on-the-fly
364
1250000
3000
或是像那種線上翻譯系統的逐字翻譯
21:09
translate spoken -- I'm sorry -- typed text between individuals.
365
1253000
5000
翻譯口語對談。抱歉，應該說是兩個人的文字對談
21:14
And so, the multicultural nature and the sort of cultural melting pot
366
1258000
4000
文化大熔爐的多元文化現象
21:18
that's happening inside Second Life is quite --
367
1262000
3000
正在第二人生進行著
21:21
I think, quite remarkable relative to what in real human terms
368
1265000
5000
這和現實生活世界有著
21:26
in the real world we've ever been able to achieve.
369
1270000
2000
我們達成非凡的成就一樣
21:28
So, I think that culture will fine-tune, it will emerge,
370
1272000
3000
所以我認為文化的問題終究會出現
21:31
but we still have some years to wait while that happens,
371
1275000
4000
但我們還需要幾年的時間
21:35
as you would naturally expect.
372
1279000
2000
自然的等待文化發展
21:37
JH: Other questions? Right here.
373
1281000
3000
JH:還有任何問題嗎?那邊
21:40
(Audience: What's your demographic?)
374
1284000
2000
觀眾:想詢問第二人生裡的人口資料
21:42
JH: What's your demographic?
375
1286000
2000
JH:第二人生裡的一些人口資料?
21:44
PR: So, the question is, what's the demographic.
376
1288000
2000
PR:所以問題是有關於人口資料
21:46
So, the average age of a person in Second Life is 32,
377
1290000
5000
在第二人生裡面平均年齡大約是32歲
21:51
however, the use of Second Life increases dramatically
378
1295000
5000
但是，使用率會隨著
21:56
as your physical age increases. So as you go from age 30 to age 60 --
379
1300000
5000
使用者生理的年齡增加而急遽增加。所當你從30歲到60歲
22:01
and there are many people in their sixties using Second Life --
380
1305000
2000
有許多60多歲的人在使用第二人生
22:03
this is also not a sharp curve -- it's very, very distributed --
381
1307000
5000
會均勻的分布沒有任何顯著的峰值
22:08
usage goes up in terms of, like, hours per week by 40 percent
382
1312000
4000
當你從30歲長到60歲
22:12
as you go from age 30 to age 60 in real life, so there's not --
383
1316000
4000
使用率，也就是每週使用的時間會增加四成
22:16
many people make the mistake of believing that Second Life
384
1320000
2000
沒有很多人有著第二人生是個線上遊戲的錯誤認知
22:18
is some kind of an online game. Actually it's generally unappealing --
385
1322000
5000
有些線上遊戲很難讓人感到很有吸引力的
22:23
I'm just speaking broadly and critically --
386
1327000
3000
我是以很廣泛的角度去討論的
22:26
it's not very appealing to people that play online video games,
387
1330000
2000
網路遊戲缺乏吸引力的原因在於
22:28
because the graphics are not yet equivalent to --
388
1332000
4000
因為線上遊戲的繪圖並沒有辦法比擬
22:32
I mean, these are very nice pictures,
389
1336000
1000
那些很精緻的畫質
22:33
but in general the graphics are not quite equivalent
390
1337000
2000
舉例來說線上遊戲的畫質沒有像
22:35
to the fine-tuned graphics that you see in a Grand Theft Auto 4.
391
1339000
4000
畫面經過優化的俠盜獵車手這一款遊戲來得好
22:39
So average age: 32. I mentioned
392
1343000
3000
平均年齡32歲
22:42
65 percent of the users are not in the United States.
393
1346000
2000
百分之65的使用者不是來自於美國
22:44
The distribution amongst countries is extremely broad.
394
1348000
3000
而是廣泛分布在不同的國家
22:47
There's users from, you know, virtually every country in the world now in Second Life.
395
1351000
3000
使用者來自於可說是在第二人生理各個不同的國家
22:50
The dominant ones are -- if you take the UK and Europe,
396
1354000
4000
主要來自於英國和歐洲
22:54
together they make up about 55 percent of the usage base in Second Life.
397
1358000
4000
那兩個地區加起來就超過5成5
22:58
In terms of psychographic --
398
1362000
2000
從心理角度來觀察
23:00
oh, men and women: men and women are almost equally matched in Second Life,
399
1364000
5000
舉性別比例來說。在第二人生裡面男女比例大概都差不多
23:05
so about 45 percent of the people online right now on Second Life are women.
400
1369000
5000
也就是大約百分之45的女性正在使用第二人生
23:10
Women use Second Life, though,
401
1374000
2000
女性使用第二人生的時間
23:12
about 30 to 40 percent more, on an hours basis, than men do,
402
1376000
3000
大概會比男性多了30-40%
23:15
meaning that more men sign up than women,
403
1379000
2000
意思是說男性的註冊人數較女性來的多
23:17
and more women stay and use it than men.
404
1381000
3000
並且女性使用者教會留下來使用
23:20
So that's another demographic fact.
405
1384000
2000
這也是另一個
23:22
In terms of psychographic, you know, the people in Second Life
406
1386000
5000
以心理度來看的人口資料。在第二人生裡面的人
23:27
are remarkably dissimilar relative to what you might think,
407
1391000
4000
和你想像中的會有很顯著的差異
23:31
when you go in and talk to them and meet them, and I would, you know,
408
1395000
2000
當你進去並和他們面對面交談你就會得到這些資料
23:33
challenge you to just do this and find out.
409
1397000
2000
我很確定你這麼做就可以得到這些資料
23:35
But it's not a bunch of programmers.
410
1399000
3000
但若不是一群程式設計者
23:38
It's not easy to describe as a demographic.
411
1402000
4000
要統計這些人口資料是很難的
23:42
If I had to just sort of paint a broad picture, I'd say, remember the people
412
1406000
4000
如果要給一個較具體的概念，我會這麼說：
23:46
who were really getting into eBay in the first few years of eBay?
413
1410000
4000
記不記得當人們當初碰觸到EBAY拍賣第一年的時候
23:50
Maybe a little bit like that: in other words, people who are early adopters.
414
1414000
3000
就像這樣。換句話說，第一批使用者
23:53
They tend to be creative. They tend to be entrepreneurial.
415
1417000
3000
他們很具有創造力，很具有企業的精神
23:56
A lot of them -- about 55,000 people so far -- are cash-flow positive:
416
1420000
4000
目前約有5萬5千人有正的資金收入
24:00
they're making money from what -- I mean, real-world money --
417
1424000
3000
他們正靠著他們在第二人生裡的活動
24:03
from what they're doing in Second Life, so it's a very build --
418
1427000
4000
賺著真實世界的錢。擁有創造力，
24:07
still a creative, building things, build-your-own-business
419
1431000
3000
建造出一個很新潮的建築物、經營自己的事業
24:10
type of an orientation. So, that's it.
420
1434000
2000
就是這樣！
24:12
JH: You describe yourself, Philip, as someone who was really creative
421
1436000
2000
JH:試著形容一下很有創意
24:14
when you were young and, you know, liked to make things.
422
1438000
4000
在年輕喜歡自己動手做東西時候的自己
24:18
I mean, it's not often that you hear somebody
423
1442000
3000
我的問題是說，你很難聽到別人
24:21
describe themselves as really creative.
424
1445000
2000
形容自己很有創意
24:23
I suspect that's possibly a euphemism for C student
425
1447000
4000
我懷疑那些形容自己很有創意的人很有可能分數都拿C
24:27
who spent a lot of time in his room? Is it possible?
426
1451000
3000
並且花很多時間在自己的房間裡。這有可能嗎?
24:30
(Laughter)
427
1454000
1000
(笑)
24:31
PR: I was a -- there were times I was a C student. You know, it's funny.
428
1455000
4000
PR:好玩的是我曾經也是個分數拿C的學生
24:35
When I got to college -- I studied physics in college --
429
1459000
2000
當我唸到大學主修物理
24:37
and I got really -- it was funny,
430
1461000
2000
然後，這很可笑我知道
24:39
because I was definitely a more antisocial kid. I read all the time.
431
1463000
5000
我那時候有點叛逆。但我常常閱讀
24:44
I was shy. I don't seem like it now, but I was very shy.
432
1468000
5000
我那時候身性害羞，雖然現在好像不是這麼一回事
24:49
Moved around a bunch -- had that experience too.
433
1473000
2000
也經歷過常常在搬家的時候
24:51
So I did, kind of, I think, live in my own world,
434
1475000
3000
所以我可以說是活在自己的世界
24:54
and obviously that helps, you know, engage your real interest in something.
435
1478000
3000
當然這也幫助我探索自己真正喜愛的事物
24:57
JH: So you're on your fifth life at this point?
436
1481000
3000
JH:哦，所以你現在正過著第五人生是吧?
25:00
PR: If you count, yeah, cities. So -- but I did --
437
1484000
6000
PR:哈，可能是吧
25:06
and I didn't do -- I think I didn't do as well in school as I could have. I think you're right.
438
1490000
4000
你剛說的沒錯，我不是很執著於分數的那種人
25:10
I wasn't, like, an obsessed -- you know, get A's kind of guy.
439
1494000
4000
不是那種分數都拿A的人
25:14
I was going to say, I had a great social experience
440
1498000
2000
但當我進大學讀書後
25:16
when I went to college that I hadn't had before,
441
1500000
2000
擁有有別以往不同的社交經驗
25:18
a more fraternal experience, where I met six or seven other guys
442
1502000
3000
同時也認識的5.6位死黨
25:21
who I studied physics with, and I was very competitive with them,
443
1505000
3000
大家一起念物理，一起競爭
25:24
so then I started to get A's. But you're right: I wasn't an A student.
444
1508000
4000
然後我的分數才拿A。但你沒錯，我不是為很好的學生
25:28
JH: Last question. Right here.
445
1512000
2000
JH:最後一個問題。邊
25:30
(Audience: In the pamphlet, there's a statement -- )
446
1514000
3000
觀眾:在小冊子裡面有一段陳述...
25:33
JH: You want to paraphrase that?
447
1517000
2000
JH:菲利浦你在重新產觸一下這段好嗎?
25:35
PR: Yeah, so let me restate that.
448
1519000
2000
PR:沒問題，我再重新說明一遍
25:37
So, you're saying that in the pamphlet there's a statement
449
1521000
3000
所以你提到說在小冊子裡面的某一段敘述
25:40
that we may come to prefer our digital selves to our real ones --
450
1524000
4000
就是我們可能比較傾向於數位的世界而非真實的世界
25:44
our more malleable or manageable digital identities to our real identities --
451
1528000
4000
起因於數位身分相較於真實身分較彈性較易管理
25:48
and that in fact, much of human life and human experience
452
1532000
3000
同時在人類的世界有許多東西和經驗
25:51
may move into the digital realm.
453
1535000
3000
將會被移轉到數位的世界
25:54
And then that's kind of a horrifying thought, of course.
454
1538000
3000
雖然這是一個很恐怖的事實
25:57
That's a frightening change, frightening disruption.
455
1541000
4000
一個恐怖的改變及分裂
26:01
I guess, and you're asking, what do I think about that? How do I --
456
1545000
3000
我想你是想問我對於這個改變的想法?我怎麼去
26:04
JH: What's your response to the people who would say, that's horrifying?
457
1548000
2000
JH:你要怎麼回應這些認為這些改變很恐怖的人?
26:06
(Audience: If someone would say to you, I find that disturbing,
458
1550000
2000
觀眾:如果有人和你說，我覺得這個改變很煩
26:08
what would be your response?)
459
1552000
2000
底的回答會和他一樣嗎?
26:10
PR: Well, I'd say a couple of things.
460
1554000
3000
PR:關於這個問題
26:13
One is, it's disturbing like the Internet or electricity was.
461
1557000
3000
第一，這惱人的程度就像網路和電力一樣
26:16
That is to say, it's a big change, but it isn't avoidable.
462
1560000
4000
就是說，這是一個很劇烈無可避免的改變
26:20
So, no amount of backpedaling or intentional behavior
463
1564000
5000
所以沒有任何的政治力
26:25
or political behavior is going to keep these technology changes
464
1569000
3000
來阻止或減緩這一系列用來連結我們
26:28
from connecting us together,
465
1572000
2000
科技的改變
26:30
because the basic motive that people have --
466
1574000
2000
因為人個基本的動力：
26:32
to be creative and entrepreneurial -- is going to drive energy
467
1576000
4000
創造力和企業家精神是用來
26:36
into these virtual worlds in the same way that it has with the Web.
468
1580000
3000
和網路一樣的驅使這一虛擬世界。
26:39
So this change, I believe, is a huge disruptive change.
469
1583000
5000
所以這些改變我相信是一個劇烈性的改變
26:44
Obviously, I'm the optimist and a big believer in what's going on here,
470
1588000
4000
很顯然地，我對於這些改驗抱持著一種樂觀的態度
26:48
but I think that as -- even a sober, you know, the most sober,
471
1592000
4000
但我認為身為一個旁觀者，大部分的旁觀者
26:52
disconnected thinker about this, looking at it from the side,
472
1596000
3000
和當事者分離，從旁觀的角度觀察
26:55
has to conclude, based on the data,
473
1599000
2000
必須要藉由經濟的力量
26:57
that with those kinds of economic forces at play,
474
1601000
2000
的資料來做出結論
26:59
there is definitely going to be a sea change,
475
1603000
3000
這些改變必然是個巨變
27:02
and that change is going to be intensely disruptive
476
1606000
3000
這些有關於我們的生活及行為模式的改變
27:05
relative to our concept of our very lives and being,
477
1609000
4000
將會是很劇烈地
27:09
and our identities, as well.
478
1613000
2000
同時也會影響到我們的身分
27:11
I don't think we can get away from those changes.
479
1615000
2000
我不相信我們可以逃避這些改變
27:13
I think generally, we were talking about this --
480
1617000
3000
一般談論到這個
27:16
I think that generally being present in a virtual world and being challenged by it,
481
1620000
6000
在虛擬世界中存在並且正在挑戰面對的改變
27:22
being -- surviving there, having a good life there, so to speak,
482
1626000
4000
在虛擬世界裡面能夠存活，有一個好的生活
27:26
is a challenge because of the multiculturality of it,
483
1630000
3000
都是一個挑戰因為文化的多性
27:29
because of the languages, because of the entrepreneurial richness of it,
484
1633000
5000
因為語言
27:34
the sort of flea market nature, if you will, of the virtual world today.
485
1638000
3000
因為一個類似於跳蚤市場的天性。如果可以，現今的虛擬世界
27:37
It puts challenges on us to rise to. We must be better than ourselves, in many ways.
486
1641000
6000
在面對這麼多挑戰當中，我們必須要多面向的強化自己
27:43
We must learn things and, you know, be more tolerant,
487
1647000
3000
我們必須回會包容
27:46
and be smarter and learn faster and be more creative, perhaps,
488
1650000
6000
並且相較於典型的生活
27:52
than we are typically in our real lives.
489
1656000
2000
要更聰明更具有創造力
27:54
And I think that if that is true of virtual worlds,
490
1658000
2000
我認為這些在虛擬世界中也是適用的
27:56
then these changes, though scary -- and, I say, inevitable --
491
1660000
4000
這些無可避免的改變雖恐怖
28:00
are ultimately for the better,
492
1664000
2000
但終究是往好的方向走
28:02
and therefore something that we should ride out.
493
1666000
3000
一個可以安全度過的好方法
28:05
But I would say that -- and many other authors and speakers about this,
494
1669000
4000
這我可能和其他講者一致
28:09
other than me, have said, you know, fasten your seat belts
495
1673000
3000
就是準備好一竊，繫好安全帶
28:12
because the change is coming. There are going to be big changes.
496
1676000
3000
因為重大的改變正要發生。將會有一系列的改變
28:15
JH: Philip Rosedale, thank you very much.
497
1679000
2000
JH:謝謝你菲利浦●羅斯德,
28:17
(Applause)
498
1681000
5000
（掌聲）
ABOUT THE SPEAKER
Philip Rosedale - EntrepreneurPhilip Rosedale (avatar "Philip Linden") is founder of Second Life, an online 3D virtual world inhabited by millions. He's chair of Linden Labs, the company behind the digital society.
Why you should listen
A tinkerer since childhood and an entrepreneur since he was a teenager, Philip Rosedale was always captivated with the idea of simulated reality and imaginary environments. He worked as CTO of RealNetworks until computing technology caught up with his fancies. Then he founded Linden Labs and built a virtual civilization called Second Life. That environment now boasts milions of citizens and a buzzing economy (currency: Linden dollars) that represents over $10 million in real value.
Second Life may be artificial but it's hardly trivial, Rosedale says. Its appeal to human creativity is obvious, but beyond the thriving in-world industries and bustling social spaces, real-life businesses (and even some religious organizations) are using Second Life as a platform for meetings, services and collaboration.
"You can imagine New York City being kind of like a museum," Rosedale says. "Still an incredibly cool place to go, but with no one working in those towers. You are going to [work] in a virtual world."
Philip Rosedale | Speaker | TED.com