TEDMED 2013
Kelli Swazey: Life that doesn't end with death
Kelli Swazey: Vida que non remata coa morte
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En Tana Toraja, as vodas e os nacementos non son as reunións sociais que manteñen a sociedade unida. Nesta parte de Indonesia, grandes, escandalosos funerais conforman o centro da vida social. A antropóloga Kelli Swazey bótalle un vistazo a esta cultura, na que os corpos dos familiares mortos son coidados hata anos despois de que morreran. Mentres isto soa raro para as sensibilidades occidentais, di ela, esta podería ser una reflexión máis real sobre o feito de que as relacións cós seres queridos non terminan simplemente cando termina a respiración. (Filmado en TEDMED)
Kelli Swazey - Anthropologist
Kelli Swazey examines how religious and spiritual practices form group identity, and play a vital role in structuring the interactions of individuals within a culture. Full bio
Kelli Swazey examines how religious and spiritual practices form group identity, and play a vital role in structuring the interactions of individuals within a culture. Full bio
Double-click the English transcript below to play the video.
00:12
I think it's safe to say
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Creo que é seguro dicir
00:14
that all humans will be intimate with death
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que todos os humanos intimarán coa morte
00:18
at least once in their lives.
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polo menos unha vez nas súas vidas.
00:21
But what if that intimacy began
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Pero que pasa se esa relación íntima comeza
00:23
long before you faced your own transition
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moito antes de que te enfrontes á túa propia transción
00:25
from life into death?
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da vida á morte?
00:28
What would life be like
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Como sería a vida
00:30
if the dead literally lived alongside you?
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se os mortos viviran literalmente xunto a ti?
00:33
In my husband's homeland
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No país natal do meu marido
00:35
in the highlands of Sulawesi island
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nas terras altas da isla de Sulawesi
00:38
in eastern Indonesia,
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no este de Indonesia.
00:40
there is a community of people that experience death
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hai unha comunidade de xente que experimenta a morte
00:42
not as a singular event
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non como un evento singular
00:45
but as a gradual social process.
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senón como un proceso social gradual.
00:49
In Tana Toraja,
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En Tana Toraja,
00:50
the most important social moments in people's lives,
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os momentos sociais máis importantes nas vidas da xente,
00:54
the focal points of social and cultural interaction
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os puntos centrais de interacción social e cultural
00:57
are not weddings or births or even family dinners,
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non son vodas, nacementos ou incluso cenas familiares,
01:02
but funerals.
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senón os funerais.
01:04
So these funerals are characterized
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Estes funereais están caracterizados
01:06
by elaborate rituals
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por rituais elaborados
01:08
that tie people in a system of reciprocal debt
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que atan á xente nun sistema de deuda recíproca
01:12
based on the amount of animals --
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basada na cantidade de animais --
01:14
pigs, chickens and, most importantly, water buffalo --
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porcos, galiñas e, máis importante aínda, búfalo de auga --
01:19
that are sacrificed and distributed
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que son sacrificados e distribuídos
01:22
in the name of the deceased.
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no nome do defunto.
01:24
So this cultural complex surrounding death,
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Polo tanto este complexo cultural que rodea á morte,
01:28
the ritual enactment of the end of life,
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o ritual de representación do fin da vida,
01:32
has made death the most visible
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fixo da morte o aspecto máis visible
01:34
and remarkable aspect of Toraja's landscape.
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e extraordinario da paisaxe de Toraja.
01:39
Lasting anywhere from a few days
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Durando dende varios días
01:42
to a few weeks,
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ata varias semanas dependendo do lugar,
01:43
funeral ceremonies are a raucous affair,
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as ceremonias funerarias son un asunto escandaloso,
01:47
where commemorating someone who's died
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onde conmemorar a alguén que está morto
01:50
is not so much a private sadness
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non é tanto unha tristeza privada
01:52
but more of a publicly shared transition.
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senón unha transición compartida publicamente.
01:57
And it's a transition that's just as much
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E é unha transición tanto sobre
02:00
about the identity of the living
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a identidade dos vivos
02:02
as it is about remembrance of the dead.
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como sobre o recordo dos mortos.
02:06
So every year, thousands of visitors
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Así que cada ano, milleiros de visitantes
02:08
come to Tana Toraja to see, as it were,
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van a Tana Toraja para ver, como era,
02:11
this culture of death,
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esta cultura sobre a morte,
02:13
and for many people these grandiose ceremonies
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e para moita xente estas ceremonias grandiosas
02:16
and the length of the ceremonies
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e a súa duración
02:19
are somehow incommensurable
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son dalgunha maneira inconmensurábeis
02:22
with the way that we face our own mortality in the West.
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para a forma en que nos enfrontamos á nosa propia mortalidade no Oeste.
02:27
So even as we share death as a universal experience,
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Polo que aínda que compartimos a morte como unha experiencia universal,
02:33
it's not experienced the same way the world over.
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non se sufre da mesma forma ó redor do mundo.
02:37
And as an anthropologist,
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E como antropóloga,
02:39
I see these differences in experience
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vexo estas diferencias na experiencia
02:42
being rooted in the cultural and social world
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que se arraigan nos mundos cultural e social,
02:46
through which we define the phenomena around us.
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a través do que definimos os fenómenos que nos rodean.
02:52
So where we see an unquestionable reality,
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Polo tanto, onde vemos unha realidade incuestionable,
02:56
death as an irrefutable biological condition,
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a morte como unha condición biolóxica irrefutable,
03:01
Torajans see the expired corporeal form
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os torajanos ven a forma corporal finada
03:05
as part of a larger social genesis.
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como parte dunha xénesis social máis longa.
03:08
So again, the physical cessation of life
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De novo, o cesamento físico da vida
03:13
is not the same as death.
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non é o mesmo que a morte.
03:16
In fact, a member of society is only truly dead
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De feito, un membro da sociedade só esta realmente morto
03:20
when the extended family can agree upon
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cando a gran familia se pon de acordo
03:23
and marshal the resources necessary
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e pon en marcha os recursos necesarios
03:26
to hold a funeral ceremony
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para levar a cabo o funeral
03:27
that is considered appropriate in terms of resources
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que se considere apropiado en termos de recursos
03:31
for the status of the deceased.
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para a posición social do falecido.
03:34
And this ceremony has to take place
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E esta ceremonia ten que ter lugar
03:36
in front of the eyes of the whole community
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ante os ollos da comunidade enteira
03:38
with everyone's participation.
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coa colaboración de todos.
03:41
So after a person's physical death,
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Así, tras a morte física dunha persoa,
03:44
their body is placed in a special room
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o seu corpo ponse nunha habitación especial
03:46
in the traditional residence, which is called the tongkonan.
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na residencia tradicional, chamada tongkonan.
03:49
And the tongkonan is symbolic
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O tongkonan simboliza
03:52
not only of the family's identity
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non só a identidade da familia
03:56
but also of the human life cycle from birth to death.
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senón tamén o ciclo da vida humana dende o nacemento ata a morte.
03:59
So essentially, the shape of the building
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Esencialmente, a forma do edificio
04:01
that you're born into is the shape
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no que naces ten a forma
04:03
of the structure which carries you
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da estrutura que te leva
04:05
to your ancestral resting place.
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ó teu lugar de descanso ancestral.
04:09
Until the funeral ceremony,
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Ata a ceremonia do funeral,
04:11
which can be held years after a person's physical death,
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que pode levarse a cabo anos despois da morte física da persoa,
04:16
the deceased is referred to as "to makala," a sick person,
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refírense ó falecido como "to makala", unha persoa enferma,
04:22
or "to mama," a person who is asleep,
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ou "to mama", unha persoa que durme,
04:26
and they continue to be a member of the household.
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e continúan sendo membros da unidade familiar.
04:30
They are symbolically fed and cared for,
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Eles son alimentados e coidados simbolicamente,
04:33
and the family at this time
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e neste momento a familia
04:35
will begin a number of ritual injunctions,
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comezará un número de requerimientos rituais,
04:38
which communicates to the wider community around them
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que comunican á amplia comunidade que os rodea
04:41
that one of their members is undergoing the transition
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que un dos seus membros está experimentando a transición
04:44
from this life into the afterlife
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de esta vida á vida de despois
04:47
known as Puya.
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conocida como Puya.
04:49
So I know what some of you must be thinking right now.
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Sei o que algún de vós debe estar pensando agora mesmo.
04:52
Is she really saying that these people live
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¿Está a dicir realmente que esa xente vive
04:55
with the bodies of their dead relatives?
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cós corpos dos seus familiares mortos?
04:58
And that's exactly what I'm saying.
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E isto é exactamente o que estou a dicir.
05:01
But instead of giving in to the sort of visceral reaction
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Pero en lugar de caer no tipo de reacción visceral
05:04
we have to this idea of proximity to bodies,
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que temos ante esta idea de proximidade ós corpos,
05:08
proximity to death,
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proxiidade á morte,
05:10
or how this notion just does not fit
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ou como esta noción simplemente non encaixa
05:13
into our very biological or medical
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no soto tipo de definición de morte
05:16
sort of definition of death,
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biolóxica ou médica,
05:19
I like to think about what the Torajan way
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gústame pensar sobre o que a forma Torajana
05:22
of viewing death encompasses of the human experience
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de ver a morte inclúe da experiencia humana
05:26
that the medical definition leaves out.
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que a definición médica deixa fóra.
05:31
I think that Torajans socially recognize
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Creo que os Torajanos recoñecen socialmente
05:35
and culturally express
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e expresan culturalmente
05:38
what many of us feel to be true
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o que moitos de nós sentimos como verdadeiro
05:41
despite the widespread acceptance
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a pesar da xeralizada aceptación
05:43
of the biomedical definition of death,
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da definición biomédica da morte,
05:48
and that is that our relationships with other humans,
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o que significa que as nosas relacións con outros humanos,
05:52
their impact on our social reality,
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o seu impacto na nosa realidade social,
05:55
doesn't cease with the termination
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non cesan có fin
05:58
of the physical processes of the body,
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dos procesos físicos do corpo,
06:02
that there's a period of transition
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senón que hai un periodo de transición
06:04
as the relationship between the living and the dead
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polo que a relación entre o vivo e o morto
06:09
is transformed but not ended.
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transfórmase pero non termina.
06:14
So Torajans express this idea of this enduring relationship
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Así, os Torajanos expresan esta idea de relación duradera
06:18
by lavishing love and attention
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prodigando amor e atención
06:20
on the most visible symbol of that relationship,
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no símbolo máis visible de esa relación,
06:23
the human body.
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o corpo humano.
06:25
So my husband has fond memories
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O meu marido recorda con cariño
06:28
of talking to and playing with
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falar, xogar
06:31
and generally being around his deceased grandfather,
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e, en xeral, estar arredor do seu avó falecido,
06:34
and for him there is nothing unnatural about this.
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e para el non hai nada antinatural nisto.
06:37
This is a natural part of the process
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Esta é unha parte natural do proceso
06:40
as the family comes to terms with the transition
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xa que a familia chega a un acordo coa transición
06:44
in their relationship to the deceased,
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na súa relación có falecido,
06:46
and this is the transition from relating to the deceased
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e esta é a transición dende a relación có falecido
06:49
as a person who's living
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como unha persoa que vive
06:51
to relating to the deceased
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á relación có falecido
06:53
as a person who's an ancestor.
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como unha persoa que é un antecesor.
06:55
And here you can see these wooden effigies
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E aquí podes ver estas efixies de madeira
06:57
of the ancestors,
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dos antecesores,
06:58
so these are people who have already been buried,
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polo tanto son persoas que xa foron soterradas,
07:00
already had a funeral ceremony.
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xa tiveron o seu funeral.
07:01
These are called tau tau.
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A estes chámaselles tau tau.
07:04
So the funeral ceremony itself
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Polo tanto o propio funeral
07:07
embodies this relational perspective on death.
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personifica esta perspectiva relacional da morte.
07:11
It ritualizes the impact of death on families
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ritualiza o impacto da morte nas familias
07:15
and communities.
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e comuidades.
07:17
And it's also a moment of self-awareness.
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E tamén é un momento de autoconciencia.
07:20
It's a moment when people think about who they are,
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É un momento no que a xente pensa sobre quen son,
07:24
their place in society,
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o seu lugar na sociedade,
07:27
and their role in the life cycle
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e o seu papel no ciclo da vida
07:29
in accordance with Torajan cosmology.
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de acordo coa cosmoloxía Torajana.
07:34
There's a saying in Toraja
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Hai un dito en Toraja
07:35
that all people will become grandparents,
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que dí que todo o mundo se convertirá en avó,
07:38
and what this means is that after death,
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e o que isto significa é que despois da morte,
07:41
we all become part of the ancestral line
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todos volvémonos parte da liña ancestral
07:44
that anchors us between the past and the present
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que nos ancora entre o pasado e o presente
07:47
and will define who our loved ones are into the future.
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e definirá quen son os nosos seres queridos no futuro.
07:52
So essentially, we all become grandparents
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Así que esencialmente, todos nos convertemos en avós
07:55
to the generations of human children
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para as xeracións de nenos
07:58
that come after us.
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que veñen tras de nós.
08:01
And this metaphor of membership
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E esta metáfora de ser membros
08:03
in the greater human family
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dunha familia humana máis ampla
08:05
is the way that children also describe
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é a forma na que os nenos tamén describen
08:07
the money that they invest
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o diñeiro que investen
08:08
in these sacrificial buffaloes
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nos búfalos que sacrifican
08:10
that are thought to carry people's soul
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xa que se cree que levan a alma da xente
08:12
from here to the afterlife,
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de aquí á outra vida,
08:15
and children will explain
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e os nenos explicarán
08:16
that they will invest the money in this
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que eles investirán o diñeiro nisto
08:19
because they want to repay their parents
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porque queren devolverlles ós seus pais
08:21
the debt for all of the years their parents spent
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a débeda por todos os anos que pasaron
08:24
investing and caring for them.
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investindo neles and coidándoos
08:27
But the sacrifice of buffalo
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Pero o sacrificio dun búfalo
08:30
and the ritual display of wealth
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e a exposición de riquezas
08:32
also exhibits the status of the deceased,
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tamén expoñen a posición social do finado,
08:35
and, by extension, the deceased's family.
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e, por extensión, da súa familia.
08:39
So at funerals, relationships are reconfirmed
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Polo tanto nos funerais, reafírmanse as relacións
08:43
but also transformed
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pero tamén se transforman
08:45
in a ritual drama that highlights
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nun drama ritual que resalta
08:48
the most salient feature about death in this place:
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o feito máis destacable sobre a morte neste sitio:
08:52
its impact on life and the relationships of the living.
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o seu impacto na vida e nas relacións dos vivos.
08:57
So all of this focus on death
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Entón, que todo isto se centre na morte
09:00
doesn't mean that Torajans don't aspire
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non significa que os Torajanos non aspiren
09:02
to the ideal of a long life.
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ó ideal dunha vida longa.
09:05
They engage in many practices
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Eles involúcranse en moitas prácticas
09:07
thought to confer good health
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que creen que traen boa saúde
09:09
and survival to an advanced age.
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e a supervivencia ata unha avanzada idade.
09:12
But they don't put much stock
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Pero non poñen moito empeño
09:14
in efforts to prolong life in the face of debilitating illness
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en esforzarse por alongar a vida no caso de enfermidades debilitantes
09:19
or in old age.
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ou de moita idade.
09:22
It's said in Toraja that everybody has
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Díse en Toraja que todo o mundo ten
09:24
sort of a predetermined amount of life.
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com unha cantidade determinada de vida.
09:26
It's called the sunga'.
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Chámase "sunga".
09:28
And like a thread, it should be allowed to unspool
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E como un fío, deberíamos deixar que se desenrede
09:32
to its natural end.
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ata o seu final natural.
09:34
So by having death as a part
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Polo tanto, tendo a morte como unha parte
09:37
of the cultural and social fabric of life,
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da fábirca cultural e social da vida,
09:41
people's everyday decisions about their health
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afecta ás decisións da xente do día a día sobre a súa saúde
09:44
and healthcare are affected.
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e sobre a asistencia médica.
09:47
The patriarch of my husband's maternal clan,
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O patriarca do clan materno do meu marido,
09:51
Nenet Katcha,
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Nenet Katcha,
09:53
is now approaching the age of 100, as far as we can tell.
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está chegando ós 100 anos, polo que podemos decir.
09:58
And there are increasing signs
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E cada vez hai máis sinais
10:00
that he is about to depart on his own journey for Puya.
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sobre que está a punto de partir no seu propio viaxe por Puya.
10:05
And his death will be greatly mourned.
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A súa morte será enormemente lamentada.
10:10
But I know that my husband's family
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Pero sei que a familia do meu marido
10:12
looks forward to the moment
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está desexando o momento
10:14
when they can ritually display
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no que poder dispoñer en forma de ritual
10:18
what his remarkable presence has meant to their lives,
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o que a súa notable presenza significou nas súas vidas,
10:23
when they can ritually recount
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cando poidan relatar ritualmente
10:25
his life's narrative,
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a historia da súa vida,
10:27
weaving his story
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convertindo a súá historia
10:28
into the history of their community.
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na historia da súa comunidade.
10:32
His story is their story.
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A súa historia é a historia de todos.
10:36
His funeral songs will sing them a song about themselves.
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Unha das cancións do seu funeral será sobre eles.
10:42
And it's a story that has no discernible beginning,
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Esta é unha historia que non ten un principio discernible,
10:46
no foreseeable end.
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nin un final predecible.
10:48
It's a story that goes on
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É unha historia que segue
10:50
long after his body no longer does.
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moito despois de que o seu corpo non o faga.
10:55
People ask me if I'm frightened or repulsed
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A xente pregúntame se estou asustada ou asqueada
10:59
by participating in a culture
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por participar nunha cultura
11:02
where the physical manifestations of death
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onde as manifestacións físicas da morte
11:05
greet us at every turn.
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salúdannos a cada paso.
11:07
But I see something profoundly transformative
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Pero eu vexo algo profundamente transformador
11:10
in experiencing death as a social process
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en experimentar a morte como un proceso social
11:13
and not just a biological one.
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e non só un proceso biolóxico.
11:17
In reality, the relationship between the living and the dead
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En realidade, a relación entre os vivos e os mortos
11:21
has its own drama in the U.S. healthcare system,
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ten o seu propio drama no sistema de saúde de EE.UU.,
11:24
where decisions about how long to stretch
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onde se toman decisións sobre cánto tempo alongar
11:26
the thread of life are made based on our emotional
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o fío da vida basadas nos nosos lazos emocionais
11:30
and social ties with the people around us,
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e sociais coa xente que nos rodea,
11:32
not just on medicine's ability to prolong life.
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non só na habilidade da medicina para prolongar a vida.
11:37
We, like the Torajans,
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Nós, como os Torajanos,
11:40
base our decisions about life
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basamos as nosas decisións sobre a vida
11:43
on the meanings and the definitions
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nos significados e nas definicións
11:47
that we ascribe to death.
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que nós atribuímos á morte.
11:49
So I'm not suggesting that anyone in this audience
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Non estou suxerindo que ninguén do público
11:52
should run out and adopt the traditions
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saia correndo e adopte as tradicións
11:55
of the Torajans.
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dos Torajanos.
11:56
It might be a little bit difficult
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Sería un pouco difícil
11:58
to put into play in the United States.
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poñelo en práctica nos Estados Unidos.
12:01
But I want to ask what we can gain
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Pero quero preguntar o que podemos gañar
12:03
from seeing physical death not only as a biological process
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vendo a morte física non só como un proceso biolóxico
12:08
but as part of the greater human story.
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senón como parte dunha historia humana máis ampla.
12:12
What would it be like to look on
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Como sería ver
12:15
the expired human form with love
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a forma humana finada con amor
12:18
because it's so intimately a part of who we all are?
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porque é unha parte moi íntima do que todos nós somos?
12:22
If we could expand our definition of death
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Se puideramos ampliar a nosa definición de morte
12:25
to encompass life,
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para incluír a vida,
12:27
we could experience death as part of life
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poderiamos experimentar a morte como parte da vida
12:31
and perhaps face death
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e quizáis afrontar a morte
12:33
with something other than fear.
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con algo máis que medo.
12:38
Perhaps one of the answers to the challenges
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Quizáis unha das respostas ós retos
12:41
that are facing the U.S. healthcare system,
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que están afrontando no sistema sanitario dos Estados Unidos,
12:43
particularly in the end-of-life care,
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particularmente nos coidados finais da vida,
12:46
is as simple as a shift in perspective,
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é tan simple como un cambio na perspectiva,
12:49
and the shift in perspective in this case
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e o cambio na perspectiva neste caso
12:51
would be to look at the social life of every death.
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sería ver a vida social de cada morto.
12:57
It might help us recognize that the way we limit
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Debería axudarnos a recoñecer que na forma en que limitamos
13:00
our conversation about death
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a nosa conversa sobre a morte
13:02
to something that's medical or biological
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a algo médico ou biolóxico
13:05
is reflective of a larger culture that we all share
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reflexa unha cultura máis ampla que todos compartimos
13:09
of avoiding death, being afraid of talking about it.
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de evitar a morte, tendo medo de falar sobre iso.
13:14
If we could entertain and value
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Se puideramos considerar e valorar
13:19
other kinds of knowledge about life,
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outros tipos de coñecemento sobre a vida,
13:22
including other definitions of death,
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incluíndo outras definicións de morte,
13:25
it has the potential to change the discussions
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teriamos o potencial para cambiar os debates
13:28
that we have about the end of life.
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que temos sobre o final da vida.
13:31
It could change the way that we die,
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Podería cambiar a forma na que morremos,
13:35
but more importantly,
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pero máis importante,
13:37
it could transform the way that we live.
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podería transformar a forma na que vivimos.
13:45
(Applause)
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(Aplausos)
Subtítulos: Laura Rodríguez.
Subtítulos: Laura Rodríguez.
ABOUT THE SPEAKER
Kelli Swazey - AnthropologistKelli Swazey examines how religious and spiritual practices form group identity, and play a vital role in structuring the interactions of individuals within a culture.
Why you should listen
Kelli Swazey is fascinated by two big questions: how do we know who we are, and how does our identity shape interactions with others? As a cultural anthropologist, Swazey has explored these ideas by researching how religion, spirituality and politics define society in Indonesia, where she has lived for more than 10 years. Swazey is currently a lecturer at the Center for Cross-Cultural and Religious Studies at Gadjah Mada University.
In her research, Swazey has looked at Christian-Muslim relations in North Sulawesi, documented Indonesian church services in New England and taken an interest in the funeral practices in Tana Toraja, located in eastern Indonesia. Her husband is an ethnic Torajan, and Swazey found herself fascinated by his stories of playing with his grandfather long after he was dead. Examinging the way Torajans make death a unique part of village life has deeply influenced her own thoughts on the end of life, she says. This is why she loves anthropology: because thinking about human difference has the power to teach us about ourselves.
Swazey has also embarked on an unusual cultural tour of Indonesia: she is learning to sing a song from every province.
Watch Swazey's TEDxUbud 2018 talk here.
Kelli Swazey | Speaker | TED.com