TED2009
Jim Fallon: Exploring the mind of a killer
Jim Fallon: Explorando a mente dun asasino
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Os asasinos psicópatas inspiraron algúns famosos programas de televisión, pero que é o que realmente os move a actuar? O neurocientífico Jim Fallon fala dos escáneres cerebrais e das análises xenéticas como medio para descubrir a sinistra orixe da natureza (e desenvolvemento) dos asasinos. Facendo un xiro demasiado estraño ata para a ficción, Fallon desvela unha fascinante historia familiar que fai que converte o seu traballo en arrepiantemente persoal.
Jim Fallon - Neurobiologist
Sloan Scholar, Fulbright Fellow, Professor Emeritus of Neuroscience, Jim Fallon looks at the way nature and nurture intermingle to wire up the human brain. Full bio
Sloan Scholar, Fulbright Fellow, Professor Emeritus of Neuroscience, Jim Fallon looks at the way nature and nurture intermingle to wire up the human brain. Full bio
Double-click the English transcript below to play the video.
00:18
I'm a neuroscientist, a professor at the University of California.
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Son neurocientífico e profesor
na Universidade de California.
na Universidade de California.
Durante os últimos 35 anos,
00:21
And over the past 35 years,
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estudei o comportamento
00:24
I've studied behavior
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00:26
on the basis of everything from genes
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baseándome en todo, dende os xenes
pasando polos neurotransmisores,
dopamina, e cousas polo estilo,
dopamina, e cousas polo estilo,
00:29
through neurotransmitters, dopamine, things like that,
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00:31
all the way through circuit analysis.
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ata chegar á análise de circuítos.
00:33
So that's what I normally do.
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Iso é o que adoito facer.
00:35
But then, for some reason,
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Pero recentemente, por algunha razón,
intereseime por outra cousa.
00:37
I got into something else, just recently.
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Isto comezou cando
un dos meus colegas me pediu
un dos meus colegas me pediu
00:39
And it all grew out of one of my colleagues asking me
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00:42
to analyze a bunch of brains
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que analizase unha serie de cerebros
00:44
of psychopathic killers.
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de asasinos psicópatas.
Esta sería a típica charla que eu daría.
00:46
And so this would be the typical talk I would give.
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A pregunta é: como se converte alguén
nun asasino psicópata?
nun asasino psicópata?
00:49
And the question is, "How do you end up with a psychopathic killer?"
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00:52
What I mean by psychopathic killer
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Cando digo asasino psicópata
refírome a estas persoas,
este tipo de persoas.
este tipo de persoas.
00:54
are these people, these types of people.
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00:56
And so some of the brains that I've studied
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Algúns dos cerebros que estudei
son de xente que coñecen.
00:58
are people you know about.
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Cando recibo cerebros,
non sei o que teño diante miña.
non sei o que teño diante miña.
01:00
When I get the brains I don't know what I'm looking at.
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Son experimentos a cegas.
Tamén recibín cerebros de xente normal.
Tamén recibín cerebros de xente normal.
01:02
It's blind experiments. They also gave me normal people and everything.
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01:04
So I've looked at about 70 of these.
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Xa estudei uns 70 deste tipo.
01:06
And what came up was a number of pieces of data.
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E o que obtiven foron unha serie de datos.
01:09
So we look at these sorts of things theoretically,
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Examinamos este tipo de cousas
de xeito teórico,
de xeito teórico,
01:12
on the basis of genetics,
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tomando como base a xenética,
01:14
and brain damage, and interaction with environment,
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os danos cerebrais, a interacción co medio
e a forma na que esa máquina funciona.
01:17
and exactly how that machine works.
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Estamos interesados en determinar
o lugar exacto do cerebro
o lugar exacto do cerebro
01:19
So we're interested in exactly where in the brain,
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01:21
and what's the most important part of the brain.
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e cal é a parte máis importante
do cerebro.
do cerebro.
01:23
So we've been looking at this:
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Entón estudamos todo isto:
a interacción entre xenes,
01:26
the interaction of genes,
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denominada efectos epixenéticos,
01:28
what's called epigenetic effects,
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01:30
brain damage, and environment,
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o dano cerebral e o medio,
01:32
and how these are tied together.
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e como estes se relacionan entre si.
A forma na que alguén se converte
en psicópata e asasino
en psicópata e asasino
01:34
And how you end up with a psychopath, and a killer,
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01:36
depends on exactly when the damage occurs.
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depende do momento exacto
no que se produce o dano.
no que se produce o dano.
01:39
It's really a very precisely timed thing.
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É algo que ten lugar
nun momento moi preciso.
nun momento moi preciso.
01:42
You get different kinds of psychopaths.
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Hai diferentes tipos de psicópatas.
01:44
So we're going along with this. And here's, just to give you the pattern.
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Entón imos seguir con esta idea. Aquí
poden ver o patrón.
poden ver o patrón.
01:47
The pattern is that those people, every one of them I looked at,
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O patrón é que aquelas persoas,
cada unha das que estudei,
cada unha das que estudei,
01:50
who was a murderer, and was a serial killer,
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que eran asasinas e asasinas en serie
presentaban danos no córtex orbital,
01:53
had damage to their orbital cortex,
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que está xusto por enriba dos ollos,
das órbitas,
das órbitas,
01:55
which is right above the eyes, the orbits,
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e tamén na parte interior
do lóbulo temporal.
do lóbulo temporal.
01:57
and also the interior part of the temporal lobe.
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01:59
So there is the pattern that every one of them had,
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Este era o patrón que todos eles tiñan,
02:01
but they all were a little different too.
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pero tamén eran algo diferentes.
02:03
They had other sorts of brain damage.
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Tiñan outros tipos de dano cerebral.
02:05
A key thing is that
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Un elemento clave reside
02:07
the major violence genes,
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no principal xene da violencia,
coñecido como xene MAO-A.
02:10
it's called the MAO-A gene.
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Hai unha variante deste xene que
está presente na poboación normal.
está presente na poboación normal.
02:13
And there is a variant of this gene that is in the normal population.
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02:17
Some of you have this. And it's sex-linked.
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Algúns de vostedes posúeno. Está
ligado ao sexo.
ligado ao sexo.
02:20
It's on the X chromosome. And so in this way
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Atópase no cromosoma X.
02:22
you can only get it from your mother.
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Deste xeito, só pode herdarse
a través da nai.
a través da nai.
02:25
And in fact this is probably why mostly men, boys,
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Este é quizais o motivo polo que
homes e nenos na súa maioría
homes e nenos na súa maioría
02:29
are psychopathic killers,
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tenden a ser asasinos psicópatas
02:31
or are very aggressive.
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ou amosan moita agresividade.
Xa que unha filla pode obter un X do pai
02:33
Because a daughter can get one X from the father,
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e un X da nai, o resultado queda
un pouco diluído.
un pouco diluído.
02:36
one X from the mother, it's kind of diluted out.
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02:38
But for a son, he can only get
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Porén, un fillo só pode obter
02:40
the X chromosome from his mother.
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o cromosoma X da súa nai.
02:42
So this is how it's passed from mother to son.
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Así é como se pasa de nai a fillo.
02:45
And it has to do with too much brain serotonin during development,
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E ten que ver co exceso de serotonina
no cerebro durante o desenvolvemento,
no cerebro durante o desenvolvemento,
o cal é interesante porque se supón
02:49
which is kind of interesting because serotonin
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que a serotonina ten efecto calmante
e relaxante.
e relaxante.
02:51
is supposed to make you calm and relaxed.
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Pero se se posúe este xene,
dentro do útero
dentro do útero
02:54
But if you have this gene, in utero
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02:57
your brain is bathed in this,
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o cerebro bañarase en serotonina
02:59
so your whole brain becomes insensitive to serotonin,
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e converterase en completamente
insensible a ela,
insensible a ela,
03:01
so it doesn't work later on in life.
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polo que esta non funcionará
posteriormente.
posteriormente.
03:04
And I'd given this one talk in Israel,
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Dei esta mesma charla en Israel
03:07
just this past year.
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o ano pasado.
03:09
And it does have some consequences.
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E tivo algunhas consecuencias.
03:11
Theoretically what this means
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En teoría, o que isto significa
03:13
is that in order to express this gene,
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é que para que este xene se exprese
03:16
in a violent way,
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de xeito violento,
precísase participar
a unha idade temperá,
a unha idade temperá,
03:18
very early on, before puberty,
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03:20
you have to be involved in something that is really traumatic --
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antes da puberdade, en algo
realmente traumático.
realmente traumático.
Non algo de estrés, nin recibir
un azoute ou algo así,
un azoute ou algo así,
03:23
not a little stress, not being spanked or something,
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03:25
but really seeing violence,
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senón presenciar violencia real
03:27
or being involved in it, in 3D.
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ou estar involucrado nela, en 3D.
03:29
Right? That's how the mirror neuron system works.
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Vale? Así funciona o sistema
de neuronas espello.
de neuronas espello.
03:31
And so, if you have that gene,
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Polo tanto, se se ten ese xene
03:34
and you see a lot of violence
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e se ve moita violencia
03:37
in a certain situation,
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nunha determinada situación,
03:39
this is the recipe for disaster, absolute disaster.
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esta é a receita para o desastre,
o desastre absoluto.
o desastre absoluto.
03:42
And what I think might happen in these areas of the world,
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O que penso que podería ocorrer nesas
zonas do mundo,
zonas do mundo,
03:45
where we have constant violence,
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onde hai unha violencia constante
03:48
you end up having generations of kids
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é que acabe habendo xeracións de nenos
03:51
that are seeing all this violence.
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que presencien toda esta violencia.
03:53
And if I was a young girl, somewhere in a violent area,
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Se eu fose unha moza de 14 anos
que vivise nunha zona violenta,
que vivise nunha zona violenta,
03:56
you know, a 14 year old, and I want to find a mate,
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e quixese atopar unha parella,
03:58
I'd find some tough guy, right, to protect me.
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buscaría un tipo duro que me protexese.
04:01
Well what the problem is this tends to concentrate these genes.
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O problema está en que isto tende
a concentrar estes xenes,
a concentrar estes xenes,
e agora recíbenos tanto
os nenos como as nenas.
os nenos como as nenas.
04:05
And now the boys and the girls get them.
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04:07
So I think after several generations,
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Así que creo que despois de
varias xeracións,
varias xeracións,
04:09
and here is the idea, we really have a tinderbox.
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e esta é a idea, temos unha verdadeira
bomba de reloxaría.
bomba de reloxaría.
04:12
So that was the idea.
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Así que disto se trata.
04:14
But then my mother said to me, "I hear you've been going around talking
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Pero logo a miña nai díxome: "Escoitei
que andas por aí a falar
que andas por aí a falar
04:16
about psychopathic killers.
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de asasinos psicópatas.
04:19
And you're talking as if you come from a normal family."
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E falas como se viñeras dunha
familia normal".
familia normal".
04:22
I said, "What the hell are you talking about?"
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E dixen: "De que raios estás a falar?"
04:24
She then told me about our own family tree.
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Entón faloume da nosa propia
árbore xenealóxica.
árbore xenealóxica.
Por suposto, ela culpou
a miña familia paterna.
a miña familia paterna.
04:27
Now she blamed this on my father's side, of course.
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04:29
This was one of these cases, because she has no violence in her background,
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Este era un deses casos, xa que ela non
procede dun contorno violento;
procede dun contorno violento;
pero o meu pai si.
04:33
but my father did.
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Ela dixo: "Teño boas e malas noticias.
04:35
Well she said, "There is good news and bad news.
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Un dos teus curmáns era Ezra Cornell,
o fundador da Universidade Cornell.
o fundador da Universidade Cornell.
04:37
One of your cousins is Ezra Cornell, founder of Cornell university.
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04:40
But the bad news is that your cousin is also Lizzie Borden.
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Pero a mala noticia é que Lizzie Borden
tamén é a túa curmá".
tamén é a túa curmá".
04:43
Now I said, "Okay, so what? We have Lizzie."
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(Risas)
E respondinlle: "Vale, e que?
Temos a Lizzie na familia".
Temos a Lizzie na familia".
E dixo: "Non, é peor aínda.
Le este libro".
Le este libro".
04:50
She goes, "No it gets worse, read this book."
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Aquí o temos, Killed Strangely,
un libro histórico.
un libro histórico.
04:52
And here is this "Killed Strangely," and it's this historical book.
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04:54
And the first murder
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O primeiro asasinato
04:56
of a mother by a son
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dunha nai a mans do seu fillo,
que era o meu tátara-tátara-tátara-
tátaravó.
tátaravó.
04:58
was my great-great-great-great-great-great-grandfather.
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05:01
Okay, so that's the first case of matricide.
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Ben, entón ese é o primeiro caso
de matricidio.
de matricidio.
05:04
And that book is very interesting. Because it's about witch trials,
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O libro é moi interesante, porque
trata sobre as cazas de bruxas
trata sobre as cazas de bruxas
05:07
and how people thought back then.
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e como a xente pensaba naquel tempo.
05:09
But it doesn't stop there.
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Pero isto non remata aquí.
05:11
There were seven more men, on my father's side,
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Había sete homes máis
na miña familia paterna,
na miña familia paterna,
05:14
starting then, Cornells, that were all murderers.
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que comezaba daquela, os Cornell,
que eran todos asasinos.
que eran todos asasinos.
05:18
Okay, now this gives one a little pause.
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Vale, isto dálle a un que pensar.
05:21
(Laughter)
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(Risas)
05:23
Because my father himself,
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Porque o meu pai
e os meus tres tíos,
na Segunda Guerra Mundial,
na Segunda Guerra Mundial,
05:25
and my three uncles, in World War II,
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05:27
were all conscientious objectors, all pussycats.
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foron obxectores de conciencia,
mansos coma años.
mansos coma años.
Pero de vez en cando aparece unha
Lizzie Borden, tres veces por século,
Lizzie Borden, tres veces por século,
05:30
But every once in a while, like Lizzie Borden, like three times a century,
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05:32
and we're kind of due.
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e xa volve a tocar.
05:34
(Laughter)
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(Risas)
Entón a ensinanza da historia é:
05:37
So the moral of the story is:
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quen ten tellado de vidro non
tire pedras ao do veciño.
tire pedras ao do veciño.
05:39
people in glass houses shouldn't throw stones.
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05:41
But more likely is this.
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Pero é máis probable
que sexa isto:
que sexa isto:
[Non me importa o que
a xente saiba sobre min,
a xente saiba sobre min,
05:44
(Laughter)
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pero espero que miña nai
nunca o descubra]
nunca o descubra]
05:48
And we had to take action. Now our kids found out about it.
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Tivemos que facer algo, agora que
os nosos fillos o saben.
os nosos fillos o saben.
Parece que todos están ben,
05:51
And they all seemed to be OK.
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05:53
But our grandkids are going to be kind of concerned here.
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pero os nosos netos terán
motivos para preocuparse.
motivos para preocuparse.
05:56
So what we've done is I've started to do PET scans
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Así que comecei a facer tomografías
05:59
of everybody in the family.
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de todos os membros da familia.
(Risas)
06:01
(Laughter)
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06:02
We started to do PET scans, EEGs and genetic analysis
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Comezamos a facer tomografías,
electroencefalogramas e análises xenéticas
electroencefalogramas e análises xenéticas
06:05
to see where the bad news is.
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para ver onde estaba o problema.
06:07
Now the only person -- it turns out
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Ao final resultou que
un fillo e unha filla, irmáns,
06:09
one son and one daughter, siblings,
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que non se levaban ben, teñen
exactamente os mesmos patróns.
exactamente os mesmos patróns.
06:12
didn't get along and their patterns are exactly the same.
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06:14
They have the same brain, and the same EEG.
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Teñen o mesmo cerebro e o mesmo
electroencefalograma.
electroencefalograma.
06:17
And now they are close as can be.
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E agora están máis unidos que nunca.
06:20
But there's gonna be bad news somewhere.
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Pero as malas noticias
chegarán nalgún momento,
chegarán nalgún momento,
06:22
And we don't know where it's going to pop up.
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e non sabemos onde aparecerán.
06:24
So that's my talk.
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Aquí remata a miña charla.
(Risas)
06:26
(Laughter)
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ABOUT THE SPEAKER
Jim Fallon - NeurobiologistSloan Scholar, Fulbright Fellow, Professor Emeritus of Neuroscience, Jim Fallon looks at the way nature and nurture intermingle to wire up the human brain.
Why you should listen
Jim Fallon has taught neuroscience and psychiatry grand rounds at the University of California Irvine for thirty-five years. Through research he explores the way genetic and perinatal environmental factors affect the way the brain gets built -- and then how an individual's experience further shapes his or her development. He lectures and writes on creativity, consciousness and culture, and has made key contributions to our understanding of adult stems and stroke, schizophrenia, Parkinson's disease and Alzheimer's disease.
Only lately has Fallon turned his research toward the subject of psychopaths -- particularly those who kill. With PET scans and EEGs, he's beginning to uncover the deep, underlying traits that make people violent and murderous. In his talk at TEDDIY at TED@PalmSprings, he shared a surprise discovery about his own family that prompted him to bring his work home.
Watch his followup talk from The Moth at the 2011 World Science Festival >>
Jim Fallon | Speaker | TED.com