TED2011
Antonio Damasio: The quest to understand consciousness
Antonio Damasio: Pothvat ka razumijevanju svijesti
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Svakog se jutra budimo i ponovo stječemo svoju svijest -- to je veličanstvena činjenica -- ali što je točno to što ponovo stječemo? Neuroznanstvenik Antonio Damasio koristi jednostavno pitanje kako bi nam dao uvid u to kako naši mozgovi stvaraju našu viziju sebe.
Antonio Damasio - Neuroscientist
Antonio Damasio's research in neuroscience has shown that emotions play a central role in social cognition and decision-making. His work has had a major influence on current understanding of the neural systems, which underlie memory, language, consciousness. Full bio
Antonio Damasio's research in neuroscience has shown that emotions play a central role in social cognition and decision-making. His work has had a major influence on current understanding of the neural systems, which underlie memory, language, consciousness. Full bio
Double-click the English transcript below to play the video.
00:15
I'm here to talk about
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Pričat ću vam ovdje
00:17
the wonder and the mystery
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o čudu i misteriji
00:20
of conscious minds.
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svjesnih umova.
00:23
The wonder is about the fact
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Čudo je to što
00:25
that we all woke up this morning
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smo se svi ujutro probudili
00:27
and we had with it
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i s time smo
00:29
the amazing return of our conscious mind.
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povratili naš svjesni um.
00:32
We recovered minds with a complete sense of self
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Povratili smo um potpuno svjesni sebe
00:35
and a complete sense of our own existence,
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i svog postojanja,
00:38
yet we hardly ever pause to consider this wonder.
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ali rijetko kad zastanemo i razmotrimo to čudo.
00:40
We should, in fact,
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Trebali bismo, jer
00:42
because without having this possibility of conscious minds,
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zapravo bez te mogućnosti svjesnog uma,
00:46
we would have no knowledge whatsoever
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ne bismo imali nikakvo znanje
00:48
about our humanity;
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o čovječanstvu;
00:50
we would have no knowledge whatsoever about the world.
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ne bismo imali nikakvo znanje o svijetu.
00:53
We would have no pains, but also no joys.
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Ne bismo patili niti uživali.
00:55
We would have no access to love
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Ne bismo mogli voljeti
00:58
or to the ability to create.
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ili imali mogućnost stvaranja.
01:01
And of course, Scott Fitzgerald said famously
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I naravno, poznata izreka Scotta Fitzgeralda:
01:04
that "he who invented consciousness
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„Onaj koji je izmislio svijest
01:07
would have a lot to be blamed for."
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bi se trebao kriviti za mnogo toga.“
01:10
But he also forgot
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Ali on je zaboravio
01:12
that without consciousness,
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da bez svijesti
01:14
he would have no access to true happiness
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ne bi imao mogućnost za istinsku sreću
01:17
and even the possibility of transcendence.
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i čak mogućnost transcendencije.
01:19
So much for the wonder, now for the mystery.
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Toliko o čudu, a sada o misteriju.
01:22
This is a mystery
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To je misterij
01:24
that has really been extremely hard to elucidate.
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koji je jako teško razriješiti.
01:27
All the way back into early philosophy
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Sve od početaka filozofije
01:30
and certainly throughout the history of neuroscience,
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i naravno kroz povijest neuroznanosti
01:33
this has been one mystery
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to je bio jedan misterij
01:36
that has always resisted elucidation,
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koji se uvijek odupirao razrješenju,
01:38
has got major controversies.
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koji je sadržavao velike kontroverze.
01:40
And there are actually many people
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I postoji, zapravo, mnogo ljudi
01:42
that think we should not even touch it;
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koji misle da to ne bismo trebali niti dirati;
01:44
we should just leave it alone, it's not to be solved.
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trebali bismo to ostaviti na miru, ne rješavati.
01:46
I don't believe that,
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Ne vjerujem u to
01:48
and I think the situation is changing.
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i mislim da se situacija mijenja.
01:50
It would be ridiculous to claim
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Bilo bi smiješno tvrditi
01:52
that we know how we make consciousness
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da znamo kako se stvara svijest
01:55
in our brains,
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u našem mozgu,
01:57
but we certainly can begin
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ali svakako možemo početi
01:59
to approach the question,
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približavati se pitanju,
02:01
and we can begin to see the shape of a solution.
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i možemo početi uviđati oblik rješenja.
02:04
And one more wonder to celebrate
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I još jedno čudo koje možemo slaviti
02:07
is the fact that we have imaging technologies
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je činjenica da imamo slikovne tehnologije
02:11
that now allow us to go inside the human brain
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koje nam omogućuju da uđemo unutar ljudskog mozga
02:15
and be able to do, for example,
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i učinimo, na primjer,
02:17
what you're seeing right now.
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ovo što vidite sada.
02:19
These are images that come from Hanna Damasio's lab,
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Ti prikazi dolaze iz laboratorija Hanne Damasio
02:22
and which show you, in a living brain,
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i u živom mozgu prikazuju
02:25
the reconstruction of that brain.
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rekonstrukciju tog mozga.
02:27
And this is a person who is alive.
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Ovo je osoba koja je živa.
02:29
This is not a person
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Ovo nije osoba
02:31
that is being studied at autopsy.
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čiji se mozak proučava na autopsiji.
02:34
And even more --
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I još bolje --
02:36
and this is something that one can be really amazed about --
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ovo je nešto što može stvarno zadiviti --
02:39
is what I'm going to show you next,
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ovo što ću vam sada pokazati
02:41
which is going underneath the surface of the brain
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je prodiranje ispod površine mozga
02:44
and actually looking in the living brain
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i zapravo gledanje živog mozga
02:47
at real connections, real pathways.
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i njegovih stvarnih poveznica, pravih putova.
02:50
So all of those colored lines
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Sve ove obojene linije
02:53
correspond to bunches of axons,
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prikazuju grupe aksona,
02:56
the fibers that join cell bodies
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vlakna koja povezuju tijela stanice
02:58
to synapses.
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sa sinapsama.
03:01
And I'm sorry to disappoint you, they don't come in color.
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I žao mi je što ću vas razočarati, ne dolaze u bojama.
03:03
But at any rate, they are there.
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Ali u svakom slučaju, oni su tu.
03:06
The colors are codes for the direction,
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Boje su kodovi za smjerove,
03:08
from whether it is back to front
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ovisno idu li od nazad prema naprijed
03:10
or vice versa.
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ili obratno.
03:12
At any rate, what is consciousness?
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U svakom slučaju, što je svijest?
03:15
What is a conscious mind?
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Što je to svjesni um?
03:17
And we could take a very simple view
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Mogli bismo odabrati jednostavno objašnjenje
03:19
and say, well, it is that which we lose
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i reći da je to ono što izgubimo
03:23
when we fall into deep sleep without dreams,
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kada zapadnemo u duboki san bez snova
03:28
or when we go under anesthesia,
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ili kada smo pod anestezijom
03:30
and it is what we regain
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i da je to ono što povratimo
03:32
when we recover from sleep
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kada se oporavimo od spavanja
03:34
or from anesthesia.
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ili anestezije.
03:36
But what is exactly that stuff that we lose under anesthesia,
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Ali što je točno to što izgubimo pod anestezijom
03:40
or when we are in deep, dreamless sleep?
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ili kada smo u dubokom snu bez snova?
03:42
Well first of all,
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Pa, prvo,
03:44
it is a mind,
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to je um
03:46
which is a flow of mental images.
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koji je tijek mentalnih slika.
03:48
And of course consider images
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I naravno smatrajte te slike
03:50
that can be sensory patterns,
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nekakvim osjetnim uzorcima,
03:52
visual, such as you're having right now
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vizualnim kao što imate upravo sada
03:54
in relation to the stage and me,
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gledajući pozornicu i mene
03:56
or auditory images,
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ili zvučne slike
03:58
as you are having now in relation to my words.
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kao što imate sada slušajući moje riječi.
04:00
That flow of mental images
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Taj tijek mentalnih slika
04:02
is mind.
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je um.
04:04
But there is something else
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Ali postoji nešto drugo
04:06
that we are all experiencing in this room.
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što svi doživljavamo u ovoj sobi.
04:08
We are not passive exhibitors
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Nismo pasivni izlagači
04:10
of visual or auditory
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vizualnih, auditivnih
04:13
or tactile images.
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ili taktilnih slika.
04:15
We have selves.
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Mi imamo sebstvo.
04:17
We have a Me
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Imamo Ja
04:19
that is automatically present
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koje je automatski prisutno
04:21
in our minds right now.
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u našim umovima upravo sada.
04:23
We own our minds.
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Posjedujemo svoje umove.
04:25
And we have a sense that it's everyone of us
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I svjesni smo da svi mi
04:28
that is experiencing this --
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doživljavamo ovo --
04:30
not the person who is sitting next to you.
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ne osoba koja sjedi pored vas.
04:33
So in order to have a conscious mind,
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Znači kako bismo imali svjesni um,
04:36
you have a self within the conscious mind.
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moramo imati sebstvo unutar svjesnog uma.
04:40
So a conscious mind is a mind with a self in it.
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Znači svjesni um je um koji ima sebstvo u sebi. .
04:43
The self introduces the subjective perspective in the mind,
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Sebstvo uvodi subjektivnu percepciju u um
04:46
and we are only fully conscious
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i mi smo jedino potpuno svjesni
04:48
when self comes to mind.
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kada sebstvo dođe u um.
04:50
So what we need to know to even address this mystery
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Ono što trebamo znati kako bismo mogli govoriti o tom misteriju
04:53
is, number one, how are minds are put together in the brain,
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je, pod broj jedan, kako su umovi sastavljeni u mozgu
04:56
and, number two, how selves are constructed.
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i , pod broj dva, kako je sebstvo konstruirano.
05:00
Now the first part, the first problem,
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Prvi dio, prvi problem
05:03
is relatively easy -- it's not easy at all --
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je relativno lagan -- nije nimalo lagan --
05:06
but it is something that has been approached gradually in neuroscience.
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ali to je nešto čega se neuroanatomija široko dotakla.
05:10
And it's quite clear that, in order to make minds,
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I potpuno je jasno da kako biste imali um,
05:13
we need to construct neural maps.
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morate napraviti neuralne karte.
05:16
So imagine a grid, like the one I'm showing you right now,
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Stoga zamislite ploču poput ove koju vam sada pokazujem,
05:19
and now imagine, within that grid,
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i sad zamislite na toj ploči .
05:21
that two-dimensional sheet,
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dvodimenzionalni list,
05:23
imagine neurons.
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zamislite neurone.
05:25
And picture, if you will,
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I slika, ako želite
05:27
a billboard, a digital billboard,
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je plakat, digitalni plakat
05:29
where you have elements
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gdje možete imati elemente
05:31
that can be either lit or not.
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koji mogu biti osvjetljeni ili ne.
05:33
And depending on how you create the pattern
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I ovisno o tome kako kreirate uzorke
05:36
of lighting or not lighting,
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osvjetljenog i neosvjetljenog,
05:39
the digital elements,
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digitalni elementi
05:41
or, for that matter, the neurons in the sheet,
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ili u ovom slučaju neuroni na ploči,
05:43
you're going to be able to construct a map.
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bit ćete u mogućnosti konstruirati kartu.
05:45
This, of course, is a visual map that I'm showing you,
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Ovo je naravno vizualna karta koju vam pokazujem,
05:48
but this applies to any kind of map --
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ali to se može primijeniti na bilo kakvu kartu --
05:50
auditory, for example, in relation to sound frequencies,
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auditivnu na primjer, u odnosu na frekvenciju zvuka
05:53
or to the maps that we construct with our skin
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ili karte koju konstruiramo svojom kožom
05:56
in relation to an object that we palpate.
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zbog objekta koji opipavamo.
05:59
Now to bring home the point
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A sad da objasnimo
06:01
of how close it is --
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smisao o njihovoj povezanosti --
06:03
the relationship between the grid of neurons
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odnos između ploče neurona
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and the topographical arrangement
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i topografskog poretka
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of the activity of the neurons
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aktivnosti neurona
06:10
and our mental experience --
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i našeg mentalnog doživljaja --
06:12
I'm going to tell you a personal story.
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ispričat ću vam osobnu priču.
06:14
So if I cover my left eye --
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Ako pokrijem svoje lijevo oko --
06:17
I'm talking about me personally, not all of you --
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govorim o sebi osobno, ne vama svima --
06:19
if I cover my left eye,
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ako pokrijem svoje lijevo oko
06:21
I look at the grid -- pretty much like the one I'm showing you.
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i pogledam ploču -- neku poput ove koju vam pokazujem.
06:24
Everything is nice and fine and perpendicular.
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Sve je lijepo i dobro i okomito.
06:27
But sometime ago, I discovered
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Ali nedavno sam otkrio
06:29
that if I cover my left eye,
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da kada pokrijem svoje lijevo oko
06:32
instead what I get is this.
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zapravo dobijem ovo.
06:34
I look at the grid and I see a warping
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Kada pogledam na ploču vidim promjenu
06:37
at the edge of my central-left field.
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na kraju mog centralnog lijevog polja.
06:40
Very odd -- I've analyzed this for a while.
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Čudno -- analizirao sam ovo neko vrijeme.
06:42
But sometime ago,
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Nedavno sam
06:45
through the help of an opthamologist colleague of mine,
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uz pomoć oftalmologa i kolegice
06:48
Carmen Puliafito,
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Carmen Puliafito
06:50
who developed a laser scanner of the retina,
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koja je napravila laserski skener retine,
06:53
I found out the the following.
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otkrio sam sljedeće.
06:55
If I scan my retina
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Ako skeniram svoju retinu
06:57
through the horizontal plane that you see there in the little corner,
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kroz horizontalnu ravninu koju vidite u malom kutu,
07:00
what I get is the following.
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dobijem sljedeće.
07:02
On the right side, my retina is perfectly symmetrical.
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Na desnoj strani, moja retina je savršeno simetrična.
07:05
You see the going down towards the fovea
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Vidite udolinu prema fovei
07:08
where the optic nerve begins.
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gdje počinje optički živac.
07:10
But on my left retina there is a bump,
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Ali na mojoj lijevoj retini na tom je mjestu izbočenje
07:12
which is marked there by the red arrow.
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koje je označeno crvenom strelicom.
07:14
And it corresponds to a little cyst
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I to odgovara maloj cisti
07:16
that is located below.
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koja se nalazi ispod.
07:18
And that is exactly what causes
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I to je točno ono što uzrokuje
07:21
the warping of my visual image.
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promjene moje vizualne slike.
07:24
So just think of this:
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I sada pomislite ovo:
07:26
you have a grid of neurons,
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imamo ploču neurona,
07:28
and now you have a plane mechanical change
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i postoji čista mehanička promjena
07:32
in the position of the grid,
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u položaju te ploče
07:34
and you get a warping of your mental experience.
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i dobijete promjene u mentalnom iskustvu.
07:36
So this is how close
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To pokazuje koliko su bliski
07:38
your mental experience
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vaše mentalno iskustvo
07:40
and the activity of the neurons in the retina,
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i aktivnost neurona retine
07:43
which is a part of the brain located in the eyeball,
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koja je dio mozga smješten u očnoj jabučici,
07:46
or, for that matter, a sheet of visual cortex.
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ili u našem slučaju, list vizualog korteksa.
07:49
So from the retina
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Znači iz retine
07:51
you go onto visual cortex.
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idemo u vizualni korteks.
07:53
And of course, the brain adds on
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I naravno mozak doda
07:55
a lot of information
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mnogo informacija
07:57
to what is going on
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na ono što se prenosi
07:59
in the signals that come from the retina.
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signalom koji dolazi iz retine.
08:01
And in that image there,
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A na ovoj slici
08:03
you see a variety of islands
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možete vidjeti različite otoke
08:05
of what I call image-making regions in the brain.
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koje zovem regije za stvaranje slika u mozgu.
08:08
You have the green for example,
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Imate zelenu koja na primjer
08:10
that corresponds to tactile information,
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odgovara taktilnim informacijama
08:12
or the blue that corresponds to auditory information.
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ili plavu koja odgovara auditivnim informacijama.
08:15
And something else that happens
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I nešto drugo se događa
08:17
is that those image-making regions
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u tim regijama za stvaranje slike
08:20
where you have the plotting
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gdje imate polja
08:22
of all these neural maps,
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svih tih neuralnih karti,
08:24
can then provide signals
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one šalju signale
08:26
to this ocean of purple that you see around,
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u ovaj ocean ljubičastog koji vidite uokolo,
08:29
which is the association cortex,
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a to je asocijacijski korteks
08:31
where you can make records of what went on
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gdje možete zabilježiti što je došlo
08:34
in those islands of image-making.
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u te otoke za stvaranje slike.
08:36
And the great beauty
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I velika ljepota toga
08:38
is that you can then go from memory,
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je ta da možete tada iz svoje memorije,
08:41
out of those association cortices,
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iz asocijacijskih korteksa,
08:43
and produce back images
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proizvesti ponovno slike
08:46
in the very same regions that have perception.
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u istim regijama koje imaju percepciju.
08:49
So think about how wonderfully convenient and lazy
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Razmislite kako je prekrasno komforan
08:52
the brain is.
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i lijen mozak.
08:54
So it provides certain areas
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Znači omogućuje određena područja
08:56
for perception and image-making.
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za percepciju i stvaranje slike.
08:58
And those are exactly the same
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I to su upravo ta
09:00
that are going to be used for image-making
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koja će se koristiti za stvaranje slika
09:03
when we recall information.
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kada se prisjetimo informacija.
09:06
So far the mystery of the conscious mind
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I tako se misterij svjesnog uma
09:09
is diminishing a little bit
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smanjuje pomalo
09:11
because we have a general sense
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zato što imamo opći dojam
09:13
of how we make these images.
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o tome kako se stvaraju slike.
09:15
But what about the self?
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A što je sa sebstvom?
09:17
The self is really the elusive problem.
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Sebstvo je zapravo lukav problem.
09:20
And for a long time,
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I dosta dugo
09:22
people did not even want to touch it,
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ljudi ga nisu ni htjeli dirati,
09:24
because they'd say,
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rekli bi:
09:26
"How can you have this reference point, this stability,
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„Kako se može imati referentna točka, ta stabilnost,
09:29
that is required to maintain
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koja je potrebna za održavanje
09:31
the continuity of selves day after day?"
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kontinuiteta sebstva dan za danom?“
09:34
And I thought about a solution to this problem.
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I razmišljao sam o rješenju tog problema.
09:37
It's the following.
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A to je sljedeće.
09:39
We generate brain maps
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Proizvodimo karte u mozgu
09:41
of the body's interior
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o tjelesnoj unutrašnjosti
09:43
and use them as the reference for all other maps.
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i koristimo ih kao referencu za sve ostale karte.
09:46
So let me tell you just a little bit about how I came to this.
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A sada ću vam malo pričati kako sam došao do toga.
09:49
I came to this because,
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Došao sam zato,
09:51
if you're going to have a reference that we know as self --
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ako će te imati referencu koju poznamo kao sebstvo --
09:55
the Me, the I
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Sebe, Ja
09:57
in our own processing --
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u našem procesiranju --
10:00
we need to have something that is stable,
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trebamo imati nešto što je stabilno,
10:02
something that does not deviate much
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nešto što se ne mijenja previše
10:05
from day to day.
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iz dana u dan.
10:07
Well it so happens that we have a singular body.
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A slučaj je da imamo jedno tijelo.
10:09
We have one body, not two, not three.
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Imamo jedno tijelo, ne dva, ne tri.
10:12
And so that is a beginning.
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I to je početak.
10:14
There is just one reference point, which is the body.
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Postoji samo jedna referentna točka, koja je tijelo.
10:16
But then, of course, the body has many parts,
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Ali onda, naravno, tijelo ima mnogo dijelova
10:19
and things grow at different rates,
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i stvari različito rastu
10:21
and they have different sizes and different people;
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i imaju različite veličine i ljudi se razlikuju;
10:23
however, not so with the interior.
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ali i ne toliko u unutrašnjosti.
10:26
The things that have to do
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To su stvari koje su povezane
10:28
with what is known as our internal milieu --
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s nečim što se zove unutarnji ambijent --
10:30
for example, the whole management
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na primjer, cijelo upravljanje
10:32
of the chemistries within our body
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kemikalijama u tijelu
10:34
are, in fact, extremely maintained
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održava se i
10:36
day after day
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iz dana u dan
10:38
for one very good reason.
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zbog dobrog razloga.
10:40
If you deviate too much
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Ako se promjeni previše
10:42
in the parameters
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u parametrima
10:44
that are close to the midline
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koji su blizu srednje linije
10:46
of that life-permitting survival range,
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u opsegu dopuštenog za preživljavanje,
10:49
you go into disease or death.
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postanete bolesni ili umrete.
10:51
So we have an in-built system
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Znači imamo jedan izgrađeni sustav
10:54
within our own lives
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u našim životima
10:56
that ensures some kind of continuity.
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koji osigurava nekakav kontinuitet.
10:59
I like to call it an almost infinite sameness from day to day.
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Volim to nazivati skoro beskonačna istost iz dana u dan.
11:02
Because if you don't have that sameness, physiologically,
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Jer ako nemate istost, fiziološki,
11:06
you're going to be sick or you're going to die.
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obolit ćete ili umrijeti.
11:08
So that's one more element for this continuity.
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To je još jedan element za ovaj kontinuitet.
11:11
And the final thing
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I zadnja stvar
11:13
is that there is a very tight coupling
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je ta da postoji veoma uska povezanost
11:15
between the regulation of our body within the brain
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između regulacije našeg tijela unutar mozga
11:19
and the body itself,
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i samog tijela,
11:21
unlike any other coupling.
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naprotiv drugih veza.
11:24
So for example, I'm making images of you,
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Na primjer, ja stvaram slike vas
11:26
but there's no physiological bond
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ali ne postoji nikakva fiziološka veza
11:29
between the images I have of you as an audience
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između slika koje imam o vama kao publici
11:32
and my brain.
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i mog mozga.
11:34
However, there is a close, permanently maintained bond
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Ali postoji bliska vječno održavana veza
11:38
between the body regulating parts of my brain
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između dijelova mozga koji reguliraju tijelo
11:41
and my own body.
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i mog tijela.
11:43
So here's how it looks. Look at the region there.
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Ovdje vidimo kako to izgleda. Pogledajte regije ovdje.
11:46
There is the brain stem in between the cerebral cortex
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Ovdje je moždano deblo između moždanog korteksa
11:49
and the spinal cord.
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i kralježnične moždine.
11:51
And it is within that region
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I u regiji
11:53
that I'm going to highlight now
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koju ću sada označiti
11:55
that we have this housing
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imamo smještene
11:58
of all the life-regulation devices
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sve uređaje za reguliranje
12:01
of the body.
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života u tijelu.
12:03
This is so specific that, for example,
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To je tako posebno da, na primjer,
12:06
if you look at the part that is covered in red
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ako gledate u dijelove koji su pokriveni crveno
12:09
in the upper part of the brain stem,
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u gornjem dijelu moždanog debla,
12:11
if you damage that as a result of a stroke, for example,
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ako oštetite to kao rezultat moždanog udara, na primjer,
12:14
what you get is coma
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ono što dobijete je koma
12:16
or vegetative state,
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ili vegetativno stanje,
12:18
which is a state, of course,
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koje je stanje, naravno,
12:20
in which your mind disappears,
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kada vaš um nestane,
12:22
your consciousness disappears.
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vaša svijest se rasprši.
12:25
What happens then actually
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Ono što se tada zapravo dogodi
12:27
is that you lose the grounding of the self,
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je da izgubite temelj sebstva,
12:30
you have no longer access to any feeling of your own existence,
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nemate više pristup nijednom osjećaju postojanja,
12:33
and, in fact, there can be images going on,
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i, činjenično, mogu se stvarati slike,
12:36
being formed in the cerebral cortex,
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stvarane u moždanom korteksu,
12:38
except you don't know they're there.
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samo što ne znate da su tamo.
12:40
You have, in effect, lost consciousness
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Izgubite svijest
12:43
when you have damage to that red section of the brain stem.
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kada oštetite taj crveni dio moždanog debla.
12:47
But if you consider the green part of the brain stem,
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Ali ako promatramo zeleni dio moždanog debla,
12:50
nothing like that happens.
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ništa se ne dogodi.
12:52
It is that specific.
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Toliko su specifični.
12:54
So in that green component of the brain stem,
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U zelenom dijelu moždanog debla, a
12:57
if you damage it, and often it happens,
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ako ga oštetite, a to se često dogodi,
13:00
what you get is complete paralysis,
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ono što dobijete je potpuna paraliza,
13:02
but your conscious mind is maintained.
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ali svjesni um ostaje.
13:05
You feel, you know, you have a fully conscious mind
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Osjetite, znate, imate potpunu svijest
13:08
that you can report very indirectly.
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koja se bilježi indirektno.
13:11
This is a horrific condition. You don't want to see it.
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To je strašno stanje. Ne želite to vidjeti.
13:14
And people are, in fact, imprisoned
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Ljudi su zapravo zatočeni
13:16
within their own bodies,
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unutar svojih tijela,
13:18
but they do have a mind.
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ali imaju um.
13:20
There was a very interesting film,
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Postoji jedan zanimljiv film,
13:22
one of the rare good films done
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jedan od rijetkih dobrih filmova
13:24
about a situation like this,
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snimljenih o ovoj situaciji,
13:26
by Julian Schnabel some years ago
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film Juliana Schnabela snimljen prije nekoliko godina
13:28
about a patient that was in that condition.
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o pacijentu u ovakvom stanju.
13:31
So now I'm going to show you a picture.
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A sada ću vam pokazati sliku.
13:33
I promise not to say anything about this,
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Obećavam da neću reći ništa o tome,
13:35
except this is to frighten you.
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osim da je tu kako bi vas zastrašila.
13:37
It's just to tell you
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Tu je samo kako bi vam rekla
13:39
that in that red section of the brain stem,
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da u onom crvenom dijelu moždanog debla
13:42
there are, to make it simple,
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postoje, da pojednostavimo,
13:44
all those little squares that correspond to modules
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svi oni mali kvadratići koji odgovaraju modulima
13:47
that actually make brain maps
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koji zapravo stvaraju moždane karte
13:50
of different aspects of our interior,
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različitih karti našeg interijera,
13:53
different aspects of our body.
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različite aspekte našeg tijela.
13:55
They are exquisitely topographic
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Oni su posebno topografski
13:58
and they are exquisitely interconnected
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i posebno su povezani
14:00
in a recursive pattern.
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u rekurzivne uzorke.
14:02
And it is out of this and out of this tight coupling
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I iz ove uske povezanosti
14:05
between the brain stem and the body
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između moždanog debla i tijela
14:07
that I believe -- and I could be wrong,
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mislim -- a možda i griješim,
14:09
but I don't think I am --
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ali mislim da ne --
14:11
that you generate this mapping of the body
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da se generiraju karte tijela
14:14
that provides the grounding for the self
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koje daju temelj za sebstvo
14:17
and that comes in the form of feelings --
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koje dolazi u obliku osjeta --
14:19
primordial feelings, by the way.
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primordijalnih osjeta, usput.
14:21
So what is the picture that we get here?
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I kakvu sliku dobivamo ovdje?
14:23
Look at "cerebral cortex," look at "brain stem,"
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Pogledajte „moždanu koru“, pogledajte „moždano deblo“,
14:25
look at "body,"
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pogledajte „tijelo“
14:27
and you get the picture of the interconnectivity
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i vidjet ćete međupovezanost
14:30
in which you have the brain stem providing the grounding for the self
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u kojoj moždano deblo daje temelje za sebstvo
14:34
in a very tight interconnection with the body.
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u jako uskoj vezi s tijelom.
14:37
And you have the cerebral cortex
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I imate moždanu koru
14:39
providing the great spectacle of our minds
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koja daje velike spektakle našeg uma
14:42
with the profusion of images
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s obiljem slika
14:44
that are, in fact, the contents of our minds
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koje su zapravo sadržaj našeg uma
14:47
and that we normally pay most attention to,
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i na koje obično najviše obraćamo pozornost,
14:50
as we should, because that's really
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kao što bi i trebali jer je to zaista
14:52
the film that is rolling in our minds.
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film koji se odvija u našim umovima.
14:54
But look at the arrows.
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Ali pogledajte strelice.
14:56
They're not there for looks.
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Nisu tu samo zbog izgleda.
14:58
They're there because there's this very close interaction.
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Tu su zbog ove jako bliske interakcije.
15:01
You cannot have a conscious mind
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Ne možete imati svjesni um
15:03
if you don't have the interaction
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ako nemate interakciju
15:05
between cerebral cortex and brain stem.
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između moždane kore i moždanog debla.
15:07
You cannot have a conscious mind
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Ne možete imati svjesni um
15:09
if you don't have the interaction
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ako nemate interakciju
15:11
between the brain stem and the body.
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između moždanog debla i tijela.
15:13
Another thing that is interesting
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Još jedna svar koja je zanimljiva
15:15
is that the brain stem that we have
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je da moždano deblo koje imamo
15:17
is shared with a variety of other species.
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dijelimo s raznim drugim vrstama.
15:19
So throughout vertebrates,
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A kod kralježnjaka
15:21
the design of the brain stem is very similar to ours,
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dizajn moždanog debla sličan je našem,
15:24
which is one of the reasons why I think
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a to je jedan od razloga zašto mislim
15:26
those other species have conscious minds like we do.
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da i druge vrste imaju svjestan um kao i mi.
15:29
Except that they're not as rich as ours,
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Samo što njihov nije toliko bogat kao naš,
15:32
because they don't have a cerebral cortex like we do.
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jer nemaju moždanu koru kao i mi.
15:34
That's where the difference is.
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U tome je razlika.
15:36
And I strongly disagree with the idea
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I u potpunosti se protivim ideji
15:39
that consciousness should be considered
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da se svijest smatra
15:42
as the great product of the cerebral cortex.
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velikim produktom moždane kore.
15:44
Only the wealth of our minds is,
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Jedino je bogatstvo naših umova,
15:46
not the very fact that we have a self
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ne i sama činjenica da imamo sebstvo
15:49
that we can refer
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koje pripisujemo
15:51
to our own existence,
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egzistenciji,
15:53
and that we have any sense of person.
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i tako imamo dojam osobe.
15:57
Now there are three levels of self to consider --
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Postoje tri razine sebstva koje razmatramo --
16:00
the proto, the core and the autobiographical.
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proto, srž i autobiografsko.
16:03
The first two are shared
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Prva dva dijelimo
16:05
with many, many other species,
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s raznim drugim vrstama
16:07
and they are really coming out
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i poprilično se primijete
16:09
largely of the brain stem
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u moždanom deblu
16:11
and whatever there is of cortex in those species.
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i, ako postoji, kori tih vrsta.
16:14
It's the autobiographical self
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A autobiografsko sebstvo
16:16
which some species have, I think.
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neke vrste imaju, mislim.
16:18
Cetaceans and primates have also
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Kitovi i primati također imaju
16:21
an autobiographical self to a certain degree.
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autobiografsko sebstvo do određene razine.
16:23
And everybody's dogs at home
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I svačiji psi kod kuće
16:25
have an autobiographical self to a certain degree.
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imaju autobiografsko sebstvo do određene razine.
16:28
But the novelty is here.
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Ali novina je ovdje.
16:30
The autobiographical self is built
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Autobiografsko je sebstvo izgrađeno
16:32
on the basis of past memories
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na bazi prošlih memorija
16:34
and memories of the plans that we have made;
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i memorija planova koje smo napravili;
16:37
it's the lived past and the anticipated future.
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to je proživljena prošlost i očekivana budućnost.
16:40
And the autobiographical self
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I autobiografsko sebstvo
16:42
has prompted extended memory, reasoning,
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ponukalo je produljenu memoriju, traženje razloga,
16:45
imagination, creativity and language.
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maštu, kreativnost i jezik.
16:47
And out of that came the instruments of culture --
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A iz njih su proizašli instrumenti društva --
16:50
religions, justice,
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religija, pravda,
16:52
trade, the arts, science, technology.
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trgovina, umjetnost, znanost i tehnologija.
16:54
And it is within that culture
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A u toj kulturi
16:56
that we really can get --
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možemo dobiti nešto --
16:58
and this is the novelty --
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a to je novost --
17:00
something that is not entirely set by our biology.
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nešto što nije potpuno određeno biologijom.
17:04
It is developed in the cultures.
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Razvija se u kulturama.
17:06
It developed in collectives of human beings.
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Razvija se u zajedništvu ljudskih bića.
17:10
And this is, of course, the culture
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A to je, naravno, kultura
17:12
where we have developed something that I like to call
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gdje smo razvili nešto što ja volim zvati
17:15
socio-cultural regulation.
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sociokulturna regulacija.
17:17
And finally, you could rightly ask,
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I na kraju, možete se pitati,
17:19
why care about this?
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koga briga za ovo?
17:21
Why care if it is the brain stem or the cerebral cortex
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Zašto brinuti je li u pitanju moždano deblo ili moždana kora
17:24
and how this is made?
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i kako se stvara?
17:26
Three reasons. First, curiosity.
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Tri razloga. Prvo, znatiželja.
17:28
Primates are extremely curious --
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Primati su jako znatiželjni --
17:30
and humans most of all.
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i ljudi ponajviše.
17:32
And if we are interested, for example,
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I mi se zanimamo, na primjer,
17:35
in the fact that anti-gravity
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za činjenicu da antigravitacija
17:37
is pulling galaxies away from the Earth,
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odvlači galaksije dalje od Zemlje,
17:39
why should we not be interested in what is going on
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zašto se onda ne bismo zanimali i za ono što se događa
17:41
inside of human beings?
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unutar ljudskog bića?
17:44
Second, understanding society and culture.
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Drugo, razumijevanje društva i kulture.
17:46
We should look
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Trebali bismo razmišljati
17:48
at how society and culture
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kako su društvo i kultura
17:50
in this socio-cultural regulation
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u ovoj socio-kulturnoj regulaciji
17:52
are a work in progress.
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rad u tijeku.
17:54
And finally, medicine.
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I na kraju, medicina.
17:56
Let's not forget that some of the worst diseases
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Ne zaboravimo da su neke od najgorih bolesti
17:58
of humankind
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čovječanstva
18:00
are diseases such as depression,
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bolesti poput depresije,
18:02
Alzheimer's disease, drug addiction.
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Alzheimerove bolesti, ovisnosti o drogama.
18:05
Think of strokes that can devastate your mind
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Razmislite o moždanom udaru koji razori vaš um
18:08
or render you unconscious.
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ili svijest.
18:10
You have no prayer
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Nema smisla
18:13
of treating those diseases effectively
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tretirati te bolesti efektivno
18:16
and in a non-serendipitous way
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i bez pozitivnih očekivanja
18:18
if you do not know how this works.
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ako ne znate kako djeluju.
18:20
So that's a very good reason
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To je veoma dobar razlog
18:22
beyond curiosity
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viši od radoznalosti
18:24
to justify what we're doing,
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koji opravdava ono što mi radimo,
18:26
and to justify having some interest in what is going on in our brains.
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i opravdava zanimanje za ono što se događa u našim mozgovima.
18:29
Thank you for your attention.
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Hvala vam na pozornosti.
18:31
(Applause)
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(Pljesak)
ABOUT THE SPEAKER
Antonio Damasio - NeuroscientistAntonio Damasio's research in neuroscience has shown that emotions play a central role in social cognition and decision-making. His work has had a major influence on current understanding of the neural systems, which underlie memory, language, consciousness.
Why you should listen
Antonio Damasio is a leader in understanding the biological origin of consciousness. He also argues that emotions, far from being barriers to it, are a crucial component of decision-making. He is founder and director of the USC Brain and Creativity Institute, which draws on partners across academic disciplines to use the explosion of new neuroscience results to tackle issues from mental health to societal and global change.
Damasio is the author of Self Comes to Mind: Constructing the Conscious Brain, which was adapted into a musical composition performed by Yo-Yo Ma at the American Museum of Natural History.
Antonio Damasio | Speaker | TED.com