TED2011
Antonio Damasio: The quest to understand consciousness
安東尼歐．達馬西歐：請懂意識
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每早當我們起床時恢復了意識—那真是了不起的事實—但，我們恢復的到底是什麼？神經科學家，安東尼歐．達馬西歐以這簡單的問題，讓我們一瞥我們的腦袋，是如何創造自我感的。
Antonio Damasio - Neuroscientist
Antonio Damasio's research in neuroscience has shown that emotions play a central role in social cognition and decision-making. His work has had a major influence on current understanding of the neural systems, which underlie memory, language, consciousness. Full bio
Antonio Damasio's research in neuroscience has shown that emotions play a central role in social cognition and decision-making. His work has had a major influence on current understanding of the neural systems, which underlie memory, language, consciousness. Full bio
Double-click the English transcript below to play the video.
00:15
I'm here to talk about
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我來這要談的是有關
00:17
the wonder and the mystery
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意識的心智的
00:20
of conscious minds.
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驚奇和神秘。
00:23
The wonder is about the fact
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驚奇的是
00:25
that we all woke up this morning
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當我們今早起床
00:27
and we had with it
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我們的意識心智
00:29
the amazing return of our conscious mind.
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也神奇地自動恢復了。
00:32
We recovered minds with a complete sense of self
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我們恢復的心智擁有完整的自我感
00:35
and a complete sense of our own existence,
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及一個完整的自我存在感，
00:38
yet we hardly ever pause to consider this wonder.
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而我們幾乎不曾停下來思考這驚奇。
00:40
We should, in fact,
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說實在的，我們應該要，
00:42
because without having this possibility of conscious minds,
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因為沒有這意識心智，
00:46
we would have no knowledge whatsoever
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我們就沒有任何
00:48
about our humanity;
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關於我們人性的知識；
00:50
we would have no knowledge whatsoever about the world.
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我們也將沒有對這個世界的任何知識。
00:53
We would have no pains, but also no joys.
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我們沒有痛苦，但也沒有歡樂。
00:55
We would have no access to love
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我們沒有辦法去愛
00:58
or to the ability to create.
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也沒有能力去創造。
01:01
And of course, Scott Fitzgerald said famously
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當然，史考特．費傑羅說過一句名言
01:04
that "he who invented consciousness
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『他是那個發明了意識的人
01:07
would have a lot to be blamed for."
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該被大大地怪罪。』
01:10
But he also forgot
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但是他也忘了
01:12
that without consciousness,
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若沒有意識，
01:14
he would have no access to true happiness
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他是無法去接觸真正的快樂
01:17
and even the possibility of transcendence.
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甚至也失去了卓越的可能。
01:19
So much for the wonder, now for the mystery.
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為這神奇講這麼多，現在來看看神祕。
01:22
This is a mystery
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這是一個謎
01:24
that has really been extremely hard to elucidate.
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一直是極難被釐清的謎。
01:27
All the way back into early philosophy
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甚至追溯到早期的哲學
01:30
and certainly throughout the history of neuroscience,
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當然也貫串了整個神經科學的歷史，
01:33
this has been one mystery
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這一直都是個謎
01:36
that has always resisted elucidation,
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也一直抗拒著解釋，
01:38
has got major controversies.
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有著主要的爭論。
01:40
And there are actually many people
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事實上還有很多人
01:42
that think we should not even touch it;
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甚至覺得我們不該碰它；
01:44
we should just leave it alone, it's not to be solved.
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我們應該讓它去，它不該被解答。
01:46
I don't believe that,
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我不信這一套，
01:48
and I think the situation is changing.
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而且我覺得情況正在改變。
01:50
It would be ridiculous to claim
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這是很荒謬的去宣稱說
01:52
that we know how we make consciousness
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我們知道意識如何
01:55
in our brains,
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在我們的腦中產生，
01:57
but we certainly can begin
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但我們絕對能開始
01:59
to approach the question,
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去著手研究這問題，
02:01
and we can begin to see the shape of a solution.
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也可開始看到答案的樣子。
02:04
And one more wonder to celebrate
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還有另外一個可慶祝的驚奇
02:07
is the fact that we have imaging technologies
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那就是我們有造影科技
02:11
that now allow us to go inside the human brain
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現在讓我們能進到人腦中
02:15
and be able to do, for example,
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而能做到，舉個例子
02:17
what you're seeing right now.
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你現正看到的。
02:19
These are images that come from Hanna Damasio's lab,
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這些影像來自漢娜．達馬西歐的實驗室，
02:22
and which show you, in a living brain,
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你可以看到，在一個活的腦裡，
02:25
the reconstruction of that brain.
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腦的重組。
02:27
And this is a person who is alive.
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這是個活著的人。
02:29
This is not a person
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這不是一個
02:31
that is being studied at autopsy.
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在驗屍的時候才被研究的人。
02:34
And even more --
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當然還有—
02:36
and this is something that one can be really amazed about --
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讓人非常驚奇的—
02:39
is what I'm going to show you next,
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是我接著要展示給你看的，
02:41
which is going underneath the surface of the brain
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這發生在腦的表面下
02:44
and actually looking in the living brain
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真的在看一個活著的腦
02:47
at real connections, real pathways.
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真實的連結，真實的傳導路徑。
02:50
So all of those colored lines
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所有這些上了色的線
02:53
correspond to bunches of axons,
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會對應到整束的軸突，
02:56
the fibers that join cell bodies
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那些纖維會從神經細胞體連結
02:58
to synapses.
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到突觸。
03:01
And I'm sorry to disappoint you, they don't come in color.
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只是很抱歉讓你失望，它們不是彩色的。
03:03
But at any rate, they are there.
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但無論如何，它們都在那。
03:06
The colors are codes for the direction,
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顏色則標示著方向。
03:08
from whether it is back to front
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可以是從後面到前面
03:10
or vice versa.
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或是反過來(從後面到前面)。
03:12
At any rate, what is consciousness?
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那麽，到底什麼是意識？
03:15
What is a conscious mind?
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什麼是有意識的心智？
03:17
And we could take a very simple view
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我們可以從一個非常簡單的角度來看
03:19
and say, well, it is that which we lose
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我們可以說，所謂意識是我們失去的
03:23
when we fall into deep sleep without dreams,
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在我們熟睡而不作夢時，
03:28
or when we go under anesthesia,
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或是當我們被麻醉時，
03:30
and it is what we regain
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醒來後所恢復的東西
03:32
when we recover from sleep
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也就是從睡眠中
03:34
or from anesthesia.
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或是從麻醉中醒來恢復的東西。
03:36
But what is exactly that stuff that we lose under anesthesia,
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到底當我們在麻醉中，或是當我們在無夢的沉睡裡，
03:40
or when we are in deep, dreamless sleep?
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失去的是什麼?
03:42
Well first of all,
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這個嘛首先，
03:44
it is a mind,
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就是我們的心智，
03:46
which is a flow of mental images.
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也就是內心影像流。
03:48
And of course consider images
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當然我們所謂的這些影像
03:50
that can be sensory patterns,
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那可以是感官的型式，
03:52
visual, such as you're having right now
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視覺的，就像是你現在正看到的一樣
03:54
in relation to the stage and me,
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與講台還有我之間的空間關係。
03:56
or auditory images,
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或是聽覺的影像。
03:58
as you are having now in relation to my words.
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像是你現在正與我講的話之間的關係。
04:00
That flow of mental images
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那些流動的內心影像
04:02
is mind.
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就是心智。
04:04
But there is something else
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但，還有其它東西
04:06
that we are all experiencing in this room.
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是我們在這個空間裡都正在體驗的。
04:08
We are not passive exhibitors
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我們並非被動的陳列展示者
04:10
of visual or auditory
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接受著視覺或聽覺
04:13
or tactile images.
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或觸覺的影像。
04:15
We have selves.
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我們擁有自我。
04:17
We have a Me
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我們是有一個我
04:19
that is automatically present
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那是自主地存在
04:21
in our minds right now.
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於我們的腦中。
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We own our minds.
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我們擁有我們的心智。
04:25
And we have a sense that it's everyone of us
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而且我們可以意識到這是我們每一個人
04:28
that is experiencing this --
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當下都在體驗的 —
04:30
not the person who is sitting next to you.
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而不是坐在你隔壁的人在體驗你。
04:33
So in order to have a conscious mind,
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所以要有一個具有意識的心智，
04:36
you have a self within the conscious mind.
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你的自我需要存在於有意識的心智中。
04:40
So a conscious mind is a mind with a self in it.
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所以有意識的心智指，包含著自我的心智。
04:43
The self introduces the subjective perspective in the mind,
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自我引導我們心智中主觀的看法。
04:46
and we are only fully conscious
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唯有這樣我們才是完全的清醒
04:48
when self comes to mind.
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也就是當我們的自我能呈現給心智時。
04:50
So what we need to know to even address this mystery
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所以光要解這個謎我們必須知道
04:53
is, number one, how are minds are put together in the brain,
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的是，第一點，我們的心智如何在腦中組合。
04:56
and, number two, how selves are constructed.
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而第二點，是自我是如何建構的。
05:00
Now the first part, the first problem,
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現在第一個部分，就是第一個問題，
05:03
is relatively easy -- it's not easy at all --
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是相對簡單的 — 它其實一點也不簡單 —
05:06
but it is something that has been approached gradually in neuroscience.
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但是在神經科學上已漸漸被研究。
05:10
And it's quite clear that, in order to make minds,
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而這也是顯而易見的，為了要有心智，
05:13
we need to construct neural maps.
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我們需建構神經圖譜。
05:16
So imagine a grid, like the one I'm showing you right now,
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所以想像有個格子圖，像你們看到的這個。
05:19
and now imagine, within that grid,
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現在想像，在這格子圖中，
05:21
that two-dimensional sheet,
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有個二維的表，
05:23
imagine neurons.
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想像神經細胞。
05:25
And picture, if you will,
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接著想像，
05:27
a billboard, a digital billboard,
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一個廣告看板，一數位的廣告看板，
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where you have elements
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上面所有的元素
05:31
that can be either lit or not.
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可以是亮或不亮。
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And depending on how you create the pattern
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你可以通過讓元素亮或不亮
05:36
of lighting or not lighting,
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來創造圖案。
05:39
the digital elements,
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這數位的元素，
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or, for that matter, the neurons in the sheet,
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或就這來說，是在格子上的神經元，
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you're going to be able to construct a map.
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你將能建構一個圖譜。
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This, of course, is a visual map that I'm showing you,
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這當然，是我正在展示給你看的視覺圖譜。
05:48
but this applies to any kind of map --
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且這可應用到任一種圖譜 --
05:50
auditory, for example, in relation to sound frequencies,
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像是聽覺的，就像與聽覺頻率的關係。
05:53
or to the maps that we construct with our skin
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或是與我們的皮膚建構的圖譜
05:56
in relation to an object that we palpate.
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來描述與我們碰觸的物體之間的關係。
05:59
Now to bring home the point
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現在回到重點
06:01
of how close it is --
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我們想知道—
06:03
the relationship between the grid of neurons
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格子裡的神經元間
06:06
and the topographical arrangement
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和位置上的排列
06:08
of the activity of the neurons
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所活化的神經元
06:10
and our mental experience --
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還有我們的意象經驗之間的關係 --
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I'm going to tell you a personal story.
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我將要告訴你一個我自己的故事。
06:14
So if I cover my left eye --
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所以，如果我遮住我的左眼 --
06:17
I'm talking about me personally, not all of you --
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我正在說的是我個人，不是你們全部的人—
06:19
if I cover my left eye,
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如果我遮住我的左眼，
06:21
I look at the grid -- pretty much like the one I'm showing you.
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我看著這個格子—很像我正在展示給你看的。
06:24
Everything is nice and fine and perpendicular.
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甚麼都是平整且清楚互相垂直的。
06:27
But sometime ago, I discovered
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但是前一陣子，我發現
06:29
that if I cover my left eye,
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當我遮住我的左眼的時候，
06:32
instead what I get is this.
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我看到的其實是這個。
06:34
I look at the grid and I see a warping
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我看著格子而我看到的是扭曲變形
06:37
at the edge of my central-left field.
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在我左視野的邊緣。
06:40
Very odd -- I've analyzed this for a while.
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很奇怪的—我已經分析這一陣子了。
06:42
But sometime ago,
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但前些日子，
06:45
through the help of an opthamologist colleague of mine,
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經我一位眼科醫師同事的幫忙，
06:48
Carmen Puliafito,
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卡門．普利菲都，
06:50
who developed a laser scanner of the retina,
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他發展了一套視網膜的雷射掃描，
06:53
I found out the the following.
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我發現下面這個。
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If I scan my retina
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當我掃視我的視網膜
06:57
through the horizontal plane that you see there in the little corner,
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你看到在那小角落經過的一個平行平面，
07:00
what I get is the following.
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我得到的是下面這個。
07:02
On the right side, my retina is perfectly symmetrical.
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在右手邊，我的視網膜是完整的對稱著。
07:05
You see the going down towards the fovea
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你看這個往視小窩
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where the optic nerve begins.
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也就是視神經開始的地方。
07:10
But on my left retina there is a bump,
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但在我的左視網膜這是有一個凸起，
07:12
which is marked there by the red arrow.
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在這裡用紅色的箭頭標示著。
07:14
And it corresponds to a little cyst
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而這對應著一個小腫瘤
07:16
that is located below.
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就位在它的下方。
07:18
And that is exactly what causes
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那東西就是造成
07:21
the warping of my visual image.
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我的視覺影像扭曲變形。
07:24
So just think of this:
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所以就想想這個：
07:26
you have a grid of neurons,
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你有一格子的神經元，
07:28
and now you have a plane mechanical change
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而你現在在格子的位置裏
07:32
in the position of the grid,
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有一平面的力學改變，
07:34
and you get a warping of your mental experience.
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而你的心智經驗有扭曲變形。
07:36
So this is how close
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所以從這裡可以看到
07:38
your mental experience
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你的心智經驗
07:40
and the activity of the neurons in the retina,
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和神經元在視網膜的活動有多接近，
07:43
which is a part of the brain located in the eyeball,
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視網膜也就是位於眼球中的部份的腦，
07:46
or, for that matter, a sheet of visual cortex.
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或者，在這個例子裏，是一片視覺腦迴。
07:49
So from the retina
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所以從視網膜
07:51
you go onto visual cortex.
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你繼續傳到視覺的腦迴。
07:53
And of course, the brain adds on
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而且當然，腦會繼續加入
07:55
a lot of information
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一大堆的訊息
07:57
to what is going on
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給正在發生的事情
07:59
in the signals that come from the retina.
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特別是從視網膜來的訊息。
08:01
And in that image there,
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也在那影像那裡，
08:03
you see a variety of islands
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你看到一些不同的腦島
08:05
of what I call image-making regions in the brain.
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那是我稱作腦中影像製造的區域。
08:08
You have the green for example,
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舉例來說你有綠色的，
08:10
that corresponds to tactile information,
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那會對應到觸覺的訊息，
08:12
or the blue that corresponds to auditory information.
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或是藍色的區對應到聽覺訊息。
08:15
And something else that happens
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還有其它發生的是
08:17
is that those image-making regions
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就是這些影像製造區
08:20
where you have the plotting
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也就是你一開始
08:22
of all these neural maps,
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畫這些神經圖譜的地方，
08:24
can then provide signals
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可以接著提供訊號
08:26
to this ocean of purple that you see around,
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給這些你看到紫色的海的周圍，
08:29
which is the association cortex,
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這裏是腦迴連結，
08:31
where you can make records of what went on
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就是你紀錄發生過的事
08:34
in those islands of image-making.
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在這些影像製造的腦島的地方。
08:36
And the great beauty
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還有真正漂亮的
08:38
is that you can then go from memory,
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是可以讓你從記憶中，
08:41
out of those association cortices,
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提取出這些連結區的腦迴，
08:43
and produce back images
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再製造出影像
08:46
in the very same regions that have perception.
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在處理感覺的區域。
08:49
So think about how wonderfully convenient and lazy
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所以想想我們的腦袋是多麼的神奇方便
08:52
the brain is.
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和偷懶。
08:54
So it provides certain areas
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我們的腦提供特定的區域
08:56
for perception and image-making.
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來處理感官知覺與製造影像。
08:58
And those are exactly the same
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而這些是完全一樣的
09:00
that are going to be used for image-making
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都是準備用來製造影像
09:03
when we recall information.
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當我們提取資訊時。
09:06
So far the mystery of the conscious mind
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目前為止神奇的意識心智
09:09
is diminishing a little bit
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是有點在消退了
09:11
because we have a general sense
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因為我們對製造這些影像的過程
09:13
of how we make these images.
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有了整體的概念。
09:15
But what about the self?
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但是關於自我呢？
09:17
The self is really the elusive problem.
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自我真的是一個非常難理解的問題。
09:20
And for a long time,
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有很長一段時間，
09:22
people did not even want to touch it,
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人們根本不想去碰它，
09:24
because they'd say,
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因為他們會說，
09:26
"How can you have this reference point, this stability,
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『你如何找到一個必要的參考點，
09:29
that is required to maintain
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一個穩定性，來維持
09:31
the continuity of selves day after day?"
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一天接著一天連續的自我？
09:34
And I thought about a solution to this problem.
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而我為這個問題想到一個解答。
09:37
It's the following.
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就像下面這樣。
09:39
We generate brain maps
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我們產生腦中
09:41
of the body's interior
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關於身體的內部的地圖
09:43
and use them as the reference for all other maps.
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再把它們當作其它地圖的參考點。
09:46
So let me tell you just a little bit about how I came to this.
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就讓我來透露一點我是怎麼得到這結論的。
09:49
I came to this because,
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我得到這個結論因為，
09:51
if you're going to have a reference that we know as self --
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如果你將要有個我們叫做自我的參考點 --
09:55
the Me, the I
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那個我，本人
09:57
in our own processing --
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在我們自己的處理上 --
10:00
we need to have something that is stable,
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我們需要個穩定的東西，
10:02
something that does not deviate much
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有個不會偏移太多的東西
10:05
from day to day.
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日復一日。
10:07
Well it so happens that we have a singular body.
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而剛好我們有一個單一的身體。
10:09
We have one body, not two, not three.
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我們有一個身體，而不是兩個，不是三個。
10:12
And so that is a beginning.
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所以這就是一個開端。
10:14
There is just one reference point, which is the body.
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唯一的一個參考點，也就是身體。
10:16
But then, of course, the body has many parts,
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當然，身體是有很多部位的，
10:19
and things grow at different rates,
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不同的部位是以不同的速度在成長，
10:21
and they have different sizes and different people;
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大小會不同，異人而已；
10:23
however, not so with the interior.
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但是，內在就不是這樣了。
10:26
The things that have to do
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與我們已知的內在環境
10:28
with what is known as our internal milieu --
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有關的事 --
10:30
for example, the whole management
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打個比方，整個管理
10:32
of the chemistries within our body
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我們身體內的化學
10:34
are, in fact, extremely maintained
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是，事實上，極端的被維持著
10:36
day after day
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一天又一天
10:38
for one very good reason.
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這有一個非常好的理由。
10:40
If you deviate too much
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如果你偏離太多
10:42
in the parameters
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接近中線的
10:44
that are close to the midline
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參數
10:46
of that life-permitting survival range,
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一旦超過了生命存活所允許的範圍，
10:49
you go into disease or death.
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你就會生病或死亡。
10:51
So we have an in-built system
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所以我們有一個內建的系統
10:54
within our own lives
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存在於我們自己的生命裡
10:56
that ensures some kind of continuity.
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那是可以維繫某種程度的延續性。
10:59
I like to call it an almost infinite sameness from day to day.
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我喜歡稱它作幾乎無限的天天千篇一律。
11:02
Because if you don't have that sameness, physiologically,
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因為如果你沒有這個生理上的千篇一律，
11:06
you're going to be sick or you're going to die.
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你就會生病或是你就會死亡。
11:08
So that's one more element for this continuity.
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所以那是這延續性的另一個元素。
11:11
And the final thing
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接著最後一件事
11:13
is that there is a very tight coupling
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就是有一個非常緊密的連結
11:15
between the regulation of our body within the brain
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在控制著我們腦中的身體
11:19
and the body itself,
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以及身體本身，
11:21
unlike any other coupling.
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這跟其它的連結都不一樣。
11:24
So for example, I'm making images of you,
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舉例來說，我正在作一個你的影像，
11:26
but there's no physiological bond
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但沒有生理的連結存在
11:29
between the images I have of you as an audience
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在我所作你身為觀眾的影像
11:32
and my brain.
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和我的腦之間。
11:34
However, there is a close, permanently maintained bond
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然而，是有一個緊密，永久維持的連結
11:38
between the body regulating parts of my brain
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存在於身體調控我部份的腦
11:41
and my own body.
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以及我自己的身體之間。
11:43
So here's how it looks. Look at the region there.
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所以這就是它的樣子。看這裡這個區域。
11:46
There is the brain stem in between the cerebral cortex
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腦幹是在大腦迴
11:49
and the spinal cord.
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和脊髓之間。
11:51
And it is within that region
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我現在要強調的
11:53
that I'm going to highlight now
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也正是在那區域裡
11:55
that we have this housing
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我們有這個屏障
11:58
of all the life-regulation devices
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那包含著所有的生命維持器
12:01
of the body.
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來調控身體。
12:03
This is so specific that, for example,
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也是這麼的功能專一，假設，
12:06
if you look at the part that is covered in red
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如果你看看這裡標示成紅色的部份
12:09
in the upper part of the brain stem,
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在腦幹的上面那一部份，
12:11
if you damage that as a result of a stroke, for example,
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如果你因為，假設中風，而毀損這個區塊，
12:14
what you get is coma
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那你就會昏迷
12:16
or vegetative state,
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或是陷入植物人的狀態，
12:18
which is a state, of course,
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這則是一個狀態，當然，
12:20
in which your mind disappears,
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你的心智就消失了，
12:22
your consciousness disappears.
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你的意識消失了。
12:25
What happens then actually
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接下來真的發生的
12:27
is that you lose the grounding of the self,
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是你喪失了和自我的接地，
12:30
you have no longer access to any feeling of your own existence,
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你不再能接觸到你的自我存在的感覺，
12:33
and, in fact, there can be images going on,
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而事實是，那裏還是有影像存在，
12:36
being formed in the cerebral cortex,
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在大腦迴形成，
12:38
except you don't know they're there.
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只是你不知道它們在那裏。
12:40
You have, in effect, lost consciousness
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你有的，在現實裡，失去了意識
12:43
when you have damage to that red section of the brain stem.
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當你腦幹中紅色的區塊損壞時。
12:47
But if you consider the green part of the brain stem,
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但如果你考慮腦幹綠色的部分，
12:50
nothing like that happens.
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沒有發生像那樣的情形。
12:52
It is that specific.
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那正是如此的功能專一。
12:54
So in that green component of the brain stem,
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所以在那腦幹綠色的組成結構，
12:57
if you damage it, and often it happens,
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如果你毀損它，而這很常發生，
13:00
what you get is complete paralysis,
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那你就會變得完全癱瘓，
13:02
but your conscious mind is maintained.
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但你有意識的心智仍是好的。
13:05
You feel, you know, you have a fully conscious mind
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你有感覺，你也知道，你有完整的意識心智
13:08
that you can report very indirectly.
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你可以間接的報告出來。
13:11
This is a horrific condition. You don't want to see it.
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這是個很可怕的情形。你不會想看到。
13:14
And people are, in fact, imprisoned
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而人們其實，就是，被囚禁
13:16
within their own bodies,
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在他們自己的身體裡。
13:18
but they do have a mind.
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但他們是有心智的。
13:20
There was a very interesting film,
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有一個很有趣的影片，
13:22
one of the rare good films done
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是一個難得的好電影
13:24
about a situation like this,
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關於像這樣的情形，
13:26
by Julian Schnabel some years ago
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是朱利安‧舒納伯幾年前拍的
13:28
about a patient that was in that condition.
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關於一個病人碰上這樣的情形。
13:31
So now I'm going to show you a picture.
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所以現在我要讓你看一張照片。
13:33
I promise not to say anything about this,
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我保證不會說任何跟這有關的事，
13:35
except this is to frighten you.
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除了要嚇嚇你。
13:37
It's just to tell you
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這只是要告訴你
13:39
that in that red section of the brain stem,
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在腦幹紅色的區塊，
13:42
there are, to make it simple,
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那裏有，簡單來說，
13:44
all those little squares that correspond to modules
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所有的小方塊會對應到模組
13:47
that actually make brain maps
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那是可以真的做出腦圖譜
13:50
of different aspects of our interior,
330
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的我們內部不同的面向，
13:53
different aspects of our body.
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及我們身體不同的面向。
13:55
They are exquisitely topographic
332
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它們在空間上是完全符合的
13:58
and they are exquisitely interconnected
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且它們也是以一個回歸模式
14:00
in a recursive pattern.
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完全相互連接。
14:02
And it is out of this and out of this tight coupling
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而就是從這出來和從這緊密的連結出來的
14:05
between the brain stem and the body
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在腦幹和身體之間
14:07
that I believe -- and I could be wrong,
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我所相信的─但我也可能是錯的。
14:09
but I don't think I am --
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只是我不太這麽認爲─
14:11
that you generate this mapping of the body
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你製造這個身體的地圖
14:14
that provides the grounding for the self
340
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那可提供我們對自我的接地
14:17
and that comes in the form of feelings --
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這會以感覺的型式存在─
14:19
primordial feelings, by the way.
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順便說，是最原始的感覺。
14:21
So what is the picture that we get here?
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所以我們這裡得到的這個照片是什麼?
14:23
Look at "cerebral cortex," look at "brain stem,"
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看看這個大腦迴，看看腦幹，
14:25
look at "body,"
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看看那個身體。
14:27
and you get the picture of the interconnectivity
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而你得到一個相互連結的
14:30
in which you have the brain stem providing the grounding for the self
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那是你的腦幹為你的自我所提供的接地
14:34
in a very tight interconnection with the body.
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與身體作一個非常緊密的連結。
14:37
And you have the cerebral cortex
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而你有的大腦迴
14:39
providing the great spectacle of our minds
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提供了我們心智一個大的公開展示場
14:42
with the profusion of images
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充滿著影像
14:44
that are, in fact, the contents of our minds
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那是，事實上，我們心智的組成
14:47
and that we normally pay most attention to,
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還有我們一般最常注意到的，
14:50
as we should, because that's really
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而我們也應該要，因為那確實
14:52
the film that is rolling in our minds.
355
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是在我們腦海中滾動撥放的影片。
14:54
But look at the arrows.
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只是看看這個箭頭。
14:56
They're not there for looks.
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他們不是好看用的。
14:58
They're there because there's this very close interaction.
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他們在那裏是因為那有這個緊密的互動。
15:01
You cannot have a conscious mind
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你不能有意識清楚的心智
15:03
if you don't have the interaction
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如果你在大腦迴和腦幹之間
15:05
between cerebral cortex and brain stem.
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沒有互動。
15:07
You cannot have a conscious mind
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你不能有一意識清楚的心智
15:09
if you don't have the interaction
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如果你沒有這個互動
15:11
between the brain stem and the body.
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在腦幹和身體之間。
15:13
Another thing that is interesting
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另一件有趣的事
15:15
is that the brain stem that we have
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是這個我們擁有的腦幹
15:17
is shared with a variety of other species.
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是其牠種類的生物也有的。
15:19
So throughout vertebrates,
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所以在脊椎動物中，
15:21
the design of the brain stem is very similar to ours,
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它們腦幹的設計與我們是非常相似的，
15:24
which is one of the reasons why I think
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這也是其中一個原因為什麼我覺得
15:26
those other species have conscious minds like we do.
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這些其他的物種也像我們有意識的心智。
15:29
Except that they're not as rich as ours,
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只是它們不像我們那麼豐富，
15:32
because they don't have a cerebral cortex like we do.
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因為它們沒有我們的大腦迴。
15:34
That's where the difference is.
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那就是差異所在。
15:36
And I strongly disagree with the idea
375
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而我強烈地不同意這個想法
15:39
that consciousness should be considered
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說意識應該要被考慮
15:42
as the great product of the cerebral cortex.
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成是大腦迴的主要的產物。
15:44
Only the wealth of our minds is,
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只有我們的心智是，
15:46
not the very fact that we have a self
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而不是因為我們有自我
15:49
that we can refer
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那我們就能推導
15:51
to our own existence,
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到我們自我的存在，
15:53
and that we have any sense of person.
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而我們就有任何身為人的感覺。
15:57
Now there are three levels of self to consider --
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現在有三個階段的自我可以考慮─
16:00
the proto, the core and the autobiographical.
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原型，核心，及自傳式的。
16:03
The first two are shared
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前面的兩個是共通的
16:05
with many, many other species,
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在很多、很多不同的物種。
16:07
and they are really coming out
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而牠們也漸漸的出現。
16:09
largely of the brain stem
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主要是腦幹
16:11
and whatever there is of cortex in those species.
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還有這些物種不論怎麼樣擁有的大腦迴。
16:14
It's the autobiographical self
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那是自傳式的自我
16:16
which some species have, I think.
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我覺得是有些物種所有的。
16:18
Cetaceans and primates have also
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鯨類和靈長類也都有
16:21
an autobiographical self to a certain degree.
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某種程度的自傳式自我。
16:23
And everybody's dogs at home
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而每個人家裡的狗
16:25
have an autobiographical self to a certain degree.
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都有某程度的自傳式自我。
16:28
But the novelty is here.
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但新鮮事來了。
16:30
The autobiographical self is built
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自傳式的自我是建構
16:32
on the basis of past memories
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在過去記憶的基礎上
16:34
and memories of the plans that we have made;
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還有我們所做計畫的記憶上；
16:37
it's the lived past and the anticipated future.
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它是活著的過去及預測的未來。
16:40
And the autobiographical self
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而自傳式的自我
16:42
has prompted extended memory, reasoning,
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有了及時延長的記憶、推理、
16:45
imagination, creativity and language.
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想像、創意及語言。
16:47
And out of that came the instruments of culture --
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而從那得到的，是文化的工具─
16:50
religions, justice,
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宗教、正義、
16:52
trade, the arts, science, technology.
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貿易、藝術、科學、科技。
16:54
And it is within that culture
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而它是存在於文化之中的
16:56
that we really can get --
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是我們確實能獲得的─
16:58
and this is the novelty --
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這就是新奇的地方─
17:00
something that is not entirely set by our biology.
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是不被我們的生物完全設定好的東西。
17:04
It is developed in the cultures.
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它在文化裡發展。
17:06
It developed in collectives of human beings.
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它在人類的集體裡發展。
17:10
And this is, of course, the culture
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而這當然就是，文化
17:12
where we have developed something that I like to call
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是我們已經發展的東西而我想要稱它作
17:15
socio-cultural regulation.
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社會─文化的調節。
17:17
And finally, you could rightly ask,
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最後，你可以光明正大的問，
17:19
why care about this?
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幹嘛要在乎這?
17:21
Why care if it is the brain stem or the cerebral cortex
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為什麼要在乎它是腦幹或大腦迴
17:24
and how this is made?
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和這是怎麼製造的?
17:26
Three reasons. First, curiosity.
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三個原因。第一，好奇心。
17:28
Primates are extremely curious --
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靈長類是極端的好奇的─
17:30
and humans most of all.
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而人類更是所有(靈長類)之最。
17:32
And if we are interested, for example,
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如果我們有興趣，打個比方，
17:35
in the fact that anti-gravity
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在抗地心引力的事實
17:37
is pulling galaxies away from the Earth,
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是拉著銀河遠離地球，
17:39
why should we not be interested in what is going on
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為什麼我們不該對正發生的事情感興趣
17:41
inside of human beings?
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那發生在人類裡的?
17:44
Second, understanding society and culture.
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第二，了解社會和文化。
17:46
We should look
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我們應該要看
17:48
at how society and culture
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看社會和文化
17:50
in this socio-cultural regulation
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在這個社會─文化的調節
17:52
are a work in progress.
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是一個正在進行的工程。
17:54
And finally, medicine.
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最後，醫學。
17:56
Let's not forget that some of the worst diseases
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讓我們別忘記一些最糟的疾病
17:58
of humankind
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那發生在人們身上
18:00
are diseases such as depression,
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的疾病像是憂鬱、
18:02
Alzheimer's disease, drug addiction.
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阿茲海默症、藥物上癮。
18:05
Think of strokes that can devastate your mind
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試想中風會摧毀你的腦袋
18:08
or render you unconscious.
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或是使你變得無意識。
18:10
You have no prayer
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你沒有祈禱文
18:13
of treating those diseases effectively
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能有效的治療這些疾病
18:16
and in a non-serendipitous way
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以一個非僥倖的方式
18:18
if you do not know how this works.
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如果你不知道這是怎麼做到的。
18:20
So that's a very good reason
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所以那正是個很好的理由
18:22
beyond curiosity
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超越好奇心
18:24
to justify what we're doing,
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去辯證我們正在做的事。
18:26
and to justify having some interest in what is going on in our brains.
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去辯證我們對我們腦正發生的事感興趣。
18:29
Thank you for your attention.
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謝謝你的聆聽。
18:31
(Applause)
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(鼓掌)
ABOUT THE SPEAKER
Antonio Damasio - NeuroscientistAntonio Damasio's research in neuroscience has shown that emotions play a central role in social cognition and decision-making. His work has had a major influence on current understanding of the neural systems, which underlie memory, language, consciousness.
Why you should listen
Antonio Damasio is a leader in understanding the biological origin of consciousness. He also argues that emotions, far from being barriers to it, are a crucial component of decision-making. He is founder and director of the USC Brain and Creativity Institute, which draws on partners across academic disciplines to use the explosion of new neuroscience results to tackle issues from mental health to societal and global change.
Damasio is the author of Self Comes to Mind: Constructing the Conscious Brain, which was adapted into a musical composition performed by Yo-Yo Ma at the American Museum of Natural History.
Antonio Damasio | Speaker | TED.com