TED2015
Steven Wise: Chimps have feelings and thoughts. They should also have rights
Steven Wise: Čimpanze imaju osjećaje i misli. Trebale bi imati i prava
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Znate, i čimpanze su ljudi. Dobro, i nisu baš. No, odvjetnik Steven Wise proveo je zadnjih 30 godina radeći na tome da promijeni status ovih životinja sa "stvari" na "osobe". To nije pitanje pravne semantike; kako objašnjava u ovom fascinantnom izlaganju, priznavanje da životinje poput čimpanzi imaju izvanredne kognitivne sposobnosti i promišljanje načina na koji ih — pravno — tretiramo nije ništa manje od naše moralne dužnosti.
Steven Wise - Animal rights lawyer
By challenging long-held legal notions of “personhood”, Steven Wise seeks to grant cognitively advanced animals access to a full spectrum of fundamental rights. Full bio
By challenging long-held legal notions of “personhood”, Steven Wise seeks to grant cognitively advanced animals access to a full spectrum of fundamental rights. Full bio
Double-click the English transcript below to play the video.
00:12
I'd like to have you look at this pencil.
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Htio bih da pogledate ovu olovku.
00:15
It's a thing. It's a legal thing.
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To je stvar. Pravno gledano, ona je stvar.
00:18
And so are books you might have
or the cars you own.
or the cars you own.
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Kao i knjige i automobili
koje posjedujete.
koje posjedujete.
00:22
They're all legal things.
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Sve su to, pravno gledano, stvari.
00:24
The great apes that you'll see behind me,
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Veliki čovjekoliki majmuni
koje ćete vidjeti iza mene
koje ćete vidjeti iza mene
00:27
they too are legal things.
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su također, pravno gledano, stvari.
00:31
Now, I can do that to a legal thing.
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Stvari mogu učiniti ovo.
00:35
I can do whatever I want
to my book or my car.
to my book or my car.
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Mogu učiniti što god hoću
mojoj knjizi ili automobilu.
mojoj knjizi ili automobilu.
00:38
These great apes, you'll see.
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Ovi veliki čovjekoliki majmuni,
vidjet ćete.
vidjet ćete.
00:41
The photographs are taken by a man
named James Mollison
named James Mollison
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Fotografirao ih je čovjek
koji se zove James Mollison,
koji se zove James Mollison,
00:45
who wrote a book called
"James & Other Apes."
"James & Other Apes."
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koji je napisao knjigu
"James i drugi čovjekoliki majmuni".
"James i drugi čovjekoliki majmuni".
00:48
And he tells in his book
how every single one them,
how every single one them,
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I piše u knjizi kako je svaki od njih,
00:51
almost every one of them, is an orphan
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gotovo svaki od njih, siroče
00:53
who saw his mother and father
die before his eyes.
die before his eyes.
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koje je vidjelo svoju majku i oca
kako umiru pred njegovim očima.
kako umiru pred njegovim očima.
00:58
They're legal things.
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Pravno, oni su stvari.
00:59
So for centuries, there's been
a great legal wall
a great legal wall
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Tako je stoljećima postojao
veliki zakonski zid
veliki zakonski zid
01:02
that separates legal things
from legal persons.
from legal persons.
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koji razdvaja stvari od osoba.
01:05
On one hand, legal things
are invisible to judges.
are invisible to judges.
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S jedne strane, stvari
su sucima nevidljive.
su sucima nevidljive.
01:09
They don't count in law.
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Ne računaju se pri donošenju zakona.
01:11
They don't have any legal rights.
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Nemaju nikakvih zakonskih prava.
01:13
They don't have
the capacity for legal rights.
the capacity for legal rights.
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Nemaju predispoziciju za
imati zakonska prava.
imati zakonska prava.
01:15
They are the slaves.
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One su robovi.
01:17
On the other side of that legal wall
are the legal persons.
are the legal persons.
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S druge strane tog zakonskog zida
su osobe.
su osobe.
01:20
Legal persons are very visible to judges.
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Osobe su jako vidljive sucima.
01:23
They count in law.
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Računaju se pri donošenju zakona.
01:25
They may have many rights.
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Mogu imati brojna prava.
01:27
They have the capacity
for an infinite number of rights.
for an infinite number of rights.
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Imaju predispoziciju za
beskonačan broj prava.
beskonačan broj prava.
01:30
And they're the masters.
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I one su gospodari.
01:33
Right now, all nonhuman animals
are legal things.
are legal things.
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Trenutno, sve neljudske životinje su,
pravno gledano, stvari.
pravno gledano, stvari.
01:37
All human beings are legal persons.
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Sva ljudska bića su,
legalno gledano, osobe.
legalno gledano, osobe.
01:40
But being human and being a legal person
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No biti čovjekom i biti osoba
01:43
has never been, and is not today,
synonymous with a legal person.
synonymous with a legal person.
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nije nikada bilo, a nije ni danas,
sinonimno s osobom.
sinonimno s osobom.
01:49
Humans and legal persons
are not synonymous.
are not synonymous.
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Ljudi i osobe nisu sinonimi.
01:52
On the one side,
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S jedne strane,
01:55
there have been many human beings
over the centuries
over the centuries
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tijekom mnogih stoljeća,
postojala su brojna ljudska bića
postojala su brojna ljudska bića
01:59
who have been legal things.
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koje su pravno gledano bile stvari.
02:01
Slaves were legal things.
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Robovi su, pravno, bili stvari.
02:02
Women, children,
were sometimes legal things.
were sometimes legal things.
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Žene, djeca, su ponekad
pravno bili stvari.
pravno bili stvari.
02:07
Indeed, a great deal of civil rights
struggle over the last centuries
struggle over the last centuries
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Doista, velik dio borbe za građanska prava
u posljednjim stoljećima
u posljednjim stoljećima
02:11
has been to punch a hole
through that wall and begin to feed
through that wall and begin to feed
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bio je probiti rupu u tom zidu
i početi provlačiti
i početi provlačiti
02:15
these human things through the wall
and have them become legal persons.
and have them become legal persons.
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te ljudske stvari kroz zid
i učiniti ih i pravno osobama.
i učiniti ih i pravno osobama.
02:20
But alas, that hole has closed up.
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Ali, jao, ta se rupa zatvorila.
02:24
Now, on the other side are legal persons,
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S druge strane, imamo osobe,
02:26
but they've never only been
limited to human beings.
limited to human beings.
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ali taj zakonski status nije nikada
bio limitiran na samo ljudska bića.
bio limitiran na samo ljudska bića.
02:30
There are, for example, there are many
legal persons who are not even alive.
legal persons who are not even alive.
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Postoje mnoge osobe koje čak nisu ni žive.
02:34
In the United States,
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U Sjedinjenim državama,
02:36
we're aware of the fact
that corporations are legal persons.
that corporations are legal persons.
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svjesni smo činjenice
da su korporacije, pravno gledano, osobe.
da su korporacije, pravno gledano, osobe.
02:40
In pre-independence India,
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U Indiji prije proglašenja nezavisnosti.
02:42
a court held that a Hindu idol
was a legal person,
was a legal person,
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na sudu su hinduistički idoli
smatrani osobama,
smatrani osobama,
02:45
that a mosque was a legal person.
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kao i džamije.
02:47
In 2000, the Indian Supreme Court
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Godine 2000., indijski Vrhovni sud
02:49
held that the holy books
of the Sikh religion was a legal person,
of the Sikh religion was a legal person,
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smatrao je svete knjige Sikha osobama,
02:53
and in 2012, just recently,
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a 2012., nedavno,
02:55
there was a treaty between
the indigenous peoples of New Zealand
the indigenous peoples of New Zealand
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postignut je sporazum između
urođeničkih naroda Novog Zelanda
urođeničkih naroda Novog Zelanda
02:59
and the crown, in which it was agreed
that a river was a legal person
that a river was a legal person
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i krune, u kojem je dogovoreno
da je rijeka, legalno gledano, osoba
da je rijeka, legalno gledano, osoba
03:02
who owned its own riverbed.
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koja posjeduje vlastito korito.
03:05
Now, I read Peter Singer's book in 1980,
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Pročitao sam knjigu
Petera Singera 1980. godine,
Petera Singera 1980. godine,
03:08
when I had a full head
of lush, brown hair,
of lush, brown hair,
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kad sam još imao gustu, bujnu smeđu kosu
03:12
and indeed I was moved by it,
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i zaista sam bio ganut njome,
zato što
zato što
03:15
because I had become a lawyer because
I wanted to speak for the voiceless,
I wanted to speak for the voiceless,
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sam postao odvjetnik jer sam
želio biti glas onih čiji se glas ne čuje,
želio biti glas onih čiji se glas ne čuje,
03:18
defend the defenseless,
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braniti nezaštićene,
03:19
and I'd never realized how voiceless
and defenseless the trillions,
and defenseless the trillions,
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a nisam nikada shvatio koliko su
bez glasa i nezaštićeni trilijuni,
bez glasa i nezaštićeni trilijuni,
03:24
billions of nonhuman animals are.
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milijarde neljudskih životinja.
03:27
And I began to work
as an animal protection lawyer.
as an animal protection lawyer.
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I počeo sam raditi kao
odvjetnik za zaštitu životinja.
odvjetnik za zaštitu životinja.
03:30
And by 1985, I realized that I was trying
to accomplish something
to accomplish something
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I do 1985. godine, shvatio sam da
sam pokušavao postići nešto
sam pokušavao postići nešto
03:35
that was literally impossible,
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što je bilo doslovno nemoguće,
03:37
the reason being that all of my clients,
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zato što su svi moji klijenti,
03:40
all the animals whose interests
I was trying to defend,
I was trying to defend,
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sve životinje čije sam interese
pokušavao braniti,
pokušavao braniti,
03:43
were legal things; they were invisible.
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pravno bile stvari; bile su nevidljive.
03:46
It was not going to work, so I decided
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To nije moglo uspjeti, pa sam odlučio
03:48
that the only thing that was going to work
was they had, at least some of them,
was they had, at least some of them,
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da je jedina stvar koja bi mogla upaliti,
da, barem neke od njih,
da, barem neke od njih,
03:52
had to also be moved through a hole
that we could open up again in that wall
that we could open up again in that wall
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također provučemo kroz rupu
koju bi opet mogli otvoriti u tom zidu
koju bi opet mogli otvoriti u tom zidu
03:55
and begin feeding the appropriate
nonhuman animals through that hole
nonhuman animals through that hole
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i počnemo provlačiti odgovarajuće
neljudske životinje kroz tu rupu
neljudske životinje kroz tu rupu
03:59
onto the other side
of being legal persons.
of being legal persons.
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na drugu stranu,
gdje bi pravno bili osobe.
gdje bi pravno bili osobe.
04:02
Now, at that time, there was
very little known about or spoken about
very little known about or spoken about
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U to vrijeme, malo se znalo ili govorilo o
04:08
truly animal rights,
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istinski životinjskim pravima,
04:10
about the idea of having legal personhood
or legal rights for a nonhuman animal,
or legal rights for a nonhuman animal,
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o ideji pravnog statusa osobe ili
zakonskih prava za neljudske životinje
zakonskih prava za neljudske životinje
04:15
and I knew it was going
to take a long time.
to take a long time.
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i znao sam da će biti
potrebno puno vremena.
potrebno puno vremena.
04:18
And so, in 1985, I figured that it
would take about 30 years
would take about 30 years
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I tako, 1985., shvatio sam da će
trebati oko 30 godina
trebati oko 30 godina
04:21
before we'd be able to even begin
a strategic litigation,
a strategic litigation,
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da budemo u mogućnosti
barem započeti stratešku parnicu,
barem započeti stratešku parnicu,
04:24
long-term campaign, in order to be able
to punch another hole through that wall.
to punch another hole through that wall.
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dugoročnu kampanju, kako bi mogli probiti
još jednu rupu u tom zidu.
još jednu rupu u tom zidu.
04:30
It turned out that I was pessimistic,
that it only took 28.
that it only took 28.
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Ispostavilo se da sam bio pesimističan,
da je trebalo samo 28 godina.
da je trebalo samo 28 godina.
04:38
So what we had to do in order
to begin was not only
to begin was not only
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Kako bi započeli, nije bilo dovoljno samo
04:45
to write law review articles
and teach classes, write books,
and teach classes, write books,
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pisati članke i podučavati, pisati knjige,
04:49
but we had to then begin
to get down to the nuts and bolts
to get down to the nuts and bolts
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nego smo se trebali spustiti
do samih praktičnih detalja
do samih praktičnih detalja
04:52
of how you litigate that kind of case.
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u vođenju takvih sporova.
04:54
So one of the first things we needed to do
was figure out what a cause of action was,
was figure out what a cause of action was,
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Među prvim stvarima za učiniti bilo je
otkriti razlog za pokretanje spora,
otkriti razlog za pokretanje spora,
04:58
a legal cause of action.
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pravni razlog
pokretanja spora.
pokretanja spora.
05:00
And a legal cause of action
is a vehicle that lawyers use
is a vehicle that lawyers use
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A taj pravni razlog je alat
koji odvjetnici koriste
koji odvjetnici koriste
05:03
to put their arguments in front of courts.
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kako bi prezentirali
svoje argumente pred sudom.
svoje argumente pred sudom.
05:08
It turns out there's
a very interesting case
a very interesting case
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Ispostavilo se da
postoji vrlo zanimljiv slučaj
postoji vrlo zanimljiv slučaj
05:11
that had occurred almost 250 years ago
in London called Somerset vs. Stewart,
in London called Somerset vs. Stewart,
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koji se odvio pred gotovo 250 godina
u Londonu, zvan Somerset protiv Stewarta,
u Londonu, zvan Somerset protiv Stewarta,
05:16
whereby a black slave
had used the legal system
had used the legal system
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gdje je crni rob iskoristio pravni sustav
05:19
and had moved from a legal thing
to a legal person.
to a legal person.
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i promijenio svoj pravni status
od stvari na osobu.
od stvari na osobu.
05:22
I was so interested in it that I
eventually wrote an entire book about it.
eventually wrote an entire book about it.
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Toliko me to zainteresiralo da sam
na kraju napisao čitavu knjigu o tome.
na kraju napisao čitavu knjigu o tome.
05:26
James Somerset was an eight-year-old boy
when he was kidnapped from West Africa.
when he was kidnapped from West Africa.
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James Somerset je bio osmogodišnji dječak
kad je otet iz zapadne Afrike.
kad je otet iz zapadne Afrike.
05:31
He survived the Middle Passage,
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Preživio je trgovinu robljem
preko Atlantika
preko Atlantika
05:34
and he was sold to a Scottish businessman
named Charles Stewart in Virginia.
named Charles Stewart in Virginia.
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i prodan je škotskom biznismenu
Charlesu Stewartu u Virginiji.
Charlesu Stewartu u Virginiji.
05:39
Now, 20 years later, Stewart
brought James Somerset to London,
brought James Somerset to London,
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Nakon 20 godina, Stewart je doveo
Jamesa Somerseta u London,
Jamesa Somerseta u London,
05:44
and after he got there, James decided
he was going to escape.
he was going to escape.
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a po dolasku tamo, James
je odlučio pobjeći.
je odlučio pobjeći.
05:47
And so one of the first things he did
was to get himself baptized,
was to get himself baptized,
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Jedna od prvih stvari
koje je napravio bilo je krštenje,
koje je napravio bilo je krštenje,
05:51
because he wanted to get
a set of godparents,
a set of godparents,
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jer je želio kumove,
05:53
because to an 18th-century slave,
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zato što za roba u 18. stoljeću,
05:55
they knew that one of the major
responsibilities of godfathers
responsibilities of godfathers
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znalo se da je jedna od
najvažnijih obveza kumova
najvažnijih obveza kumova
05:58
was to help you escape.
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bila ta da vam pomognu u bijegu.
06:00
And so in the fall of 1771,
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I tako u jesen 1771.,
06:04
James Somerset had a confrontation
with Charles Stewart.
with Charles Stewart.
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James Somerset se sukobio
s Charlesom Stewartom.
s Charlesom Stewartom.
06:07
We don't know exactly what happened,
but then James dropped out of sight.
but then James dropped out of sight.
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Ne znamo točno što se dogodilo,
no onda se James izgubio iz vida.
no onda se James izgubio iz vida.
06:12
An enraged Charles Stewart
then hired slave catchers
then hired slave catchers
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Razbješnjeli Charles Stewart
tada je angažirao hvatače robova
tada je angažirao hvatače robova
06:15
to canvass the city of London,
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kako bi pretražili London,
06:17
find him, bring him
not back to Charles Stewart,
not back to Charles Stewart,
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pronašli ga, doveli ga
ne natrag Charlesu Stewartu,
ne natrag Charlesu Stewartu,
06:20
but to a ship, the Ann and Mary,
that was floating in London Harbour,
that was floating in London Harbour,
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već na brod koji je bio
privezan u londonskoj luci,
privezan u londonskoj luci,
06:26
and he was chained to the deck,
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i bio je okovan za palubu
06:27
and the ship was to set sail for Jamaica
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i brod je trebao isploviti za Jamajku
06:29
where James was to be sold
in the slave markets
in the slave markets
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gdje je James trebao biti prodan
na tržnici robova
na tržnici robova
06:32
and be doomed to the three to five
years of life that a slave had
years of life that a slave had
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i osuđen na tri do pet godina života
koliko su robovi živjeli
koliko su robovi živjeli
06:36
harvesting sugar cane in Jamaica.
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berući šećernu trsku na Jamajci.
06:39
Well now James' godparents
swung into action.
swung into action.
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Sada su Jamesovi kumovi stupili u akciju.
06:42
They approached the most powerful judge,
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Prišli su najmoćnijem sucu,
06:44
Lord Mansfield, who was chief judge
of the court of King's Bench,
of the court of King's Bench,
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lordu Mansfieldu, koji je bio
glavni sudac na kraljevom sudu,
glavni sudac na kraljevom sudu,
06:48
and they demanded that he issue
a common law writ of habeus corpus
a common law writ of habeus corpus
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i zahtijevali da izda običajnopravni
sudski nalog habeus corpus,
sudski nalog habeus corpus,
06:52
on behalf of James Somerset.
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za dovođenje Jamesa Somerseta.
06:53
Now, the common law is the kind of law
that English-speaking judges can make
that English-speaking judges can make
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Običajno pravo je vrsta zakona koje
suci mogu donijeti
suci mogu donijeti
06:57
when they're not cabined in
by statutes or constitutions,
by statutes or constitutions,
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kada nisu ograničeni
statutima ili ustavima,
statutima ili ustavima,
07:02
and a writ of habeus corpus
is called the Great Writ,
is called the Great Writ,
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a nalog habeus corpus
je zvan Veliki nalog,
je zvan Veliki nalog,
07:04
capital G, capital W,
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s velikim početnim slovom,
07:06
and it's meant to protect any of us
who are detained against our will.
who are detained against our will.
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i namijenjen je da štiti svakoga koji
je negdje zadržan protivno svojoj volji.
je negdje zadržan protivno svojoj volji.
07:11
A writ of habeus corpus is issued.
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Nalog habeus corpus je izdan.
07:13
The detainer is required
to bring the detainee in
to bring the detainee in
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Onaj koji je zadržao treba
dovesti zadržanog
dovesti zadržanog
07:15
and give a legally sufficient reason
for depriving him of his bodily liberty.
for depriving him of his bodily liberty.
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i dati pravno valjan razlog
za lišavanje te osobe njegove slobode.
za lišavanje te osobe njegove slobode.
07:21
Well, Lord Mansfield had to make
a decision right off the bat,
a decision right off the bat,
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Lord Mansfield je trebao
donijeti odluku brzo,
donijeti odluku brzo,
07:26
because if James Somerset
was a legal thing,
was a legal thing,
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jer ako je James Somerset
pravno bio stvar,
pravno bio stvar,
07:29
he was not eligible
for a writ of habeus corpus,
for a writ of habeus corpus,
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nije imao pravo na nalog habeus corpus,
07:32
only if he could be a legal person.
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samo ako je mogao pravno biti osoba.
07:34
So Lord Mansfield decided
that he would assume,
that he would assume,
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Tako je Lord Mansfield
odlučio pretpostaviti,
odlučio pretpostaviti,
07:37
without deciding, that James Somerset
was indeed a legal person,
was indeed a legal person,
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bez odlučivanja, da je James Somerset
zaista pravno osoba,
zaista pravno osoba,
07:41
and he issued the writ of habeus corpus,
and James's body was brought in
and James's body was brought in
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i izdao je nalog habeus corpus
i kapetan broda je doveo
i kapetan broda je doveo
07:44
by the captain of the ship.
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Jamesovo tijelo pred sud.
07:46
There were a series of hearings
over the next six months.
over the next six months.
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Kroz sljedećih šest mjeseci
obavljen je niz saslušanja.
obavljen je niz saslušanja.
07:49
On June 22, 1772, Lord Mansfield
said that slavery was so odious,
said that slavery was so odious,
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Dana 22. lipnja 1772., Lord Mansfield
rekao je da je ropstvo toliko odvratno,
rekao je da je ropstvo toliko odvratno,
07:55
and he used the word "odious,"
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i iskoristio je riječ "odvratno",
07:56
that the common law would not support it,
and he ordered James free.
and he ordered James free.
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da ga običajno pravo neće podržati,
te je naredio da se James oslobodi.
te je naredio da se James oslobodi.
08:00
At that moment, James Somerset
underwent a legal transubstantiation.
underwent a legal transubstantiation.
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U tom trenutku, James Somerset
je prošao kroz pravnu transupstancijaciju.
je prošao kroz pravnu transupstancijaciju.
08:04
The free man who walked
out of the courtroom
out of the courtroom
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Slobodan čovjek koji je izašao iz sudnice
08:06
looked exactly like the slave
who had walked in,
who had walked in,
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izgledao je točno kao
rob koji je u nju ušao,
rob koji je u nju ušao,
08:09
but as far as the law was concerned,
they had nothing whatsoever in common.
they had nothing whatsoever in common.
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no, što se zakona ticalo,
oni nisu imali ništa zajedničko.
oni nisu imali ništa zajedničko.
08:14
The next thing we did is that
the Nonhuman Rights Project,
the Nonhuman Rights Project,
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Sljedeće što smo učinili jest
da je Nonhuman Rights Project,
da je Nonhuman Rights Project,
08:17
which I founded, then began to look at
what kind of values and principles
what kind of values and principles
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kojega sam osnovao, tada počeo
razmatrati koje vrijednosti i principe
razmatrati koje vrijednosti i principe
08:21
do we want to put before the judges?
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želimo predstaviti sucima?
08:24
What values and principles
did they imbibe with their mother's milk,
did they imbibe with their mother's milk,
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Koje vrijednosti i principe su
upili s majčinim mlijekom,
upili s majčinim mlijekom,
08:28
were they taught in law school,
do they use every day,
do they use every day,
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koje su učili na studiju prava,
koje svakodnevno koriste,
koje svakodnevno koriste,
08:31
do they believe with all their hearts --
and we chose liberty and equality.
and we chose liberty and equality.
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u koje vjeruju cijelim srcem --
i izabrali smo slobodu i jednakost.
i izabrali smo slobodu i jednakost.
08:34
Now, liberty right is the kind of right
to which you're entitled
to which you're entitled
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Pravo na slobodu je
vrsta prava kojeg imate
vrsta prava kojeg imate
08:37
because of how you're put together,
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zbog toga kako ste sastavljeni,
08:40
and a fundamental liberty right
protects a fundamental interest.
protects a fundamental interest.
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a fundamentalno pravo na slobodu
štiti fundamentalne interese.
štiti fundamentalne interese.
08:45
And the supreme interest in the common law
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A najviši interes u običajnom pravu
08:48
are the rights to autonomy
and self-determination.
and self-determination.
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su prava na autonomiju i samoodređenje.
08:54
So they are so powerful that
in a common law country,
in a common law country,
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Ona su toliko moćna da
u državi koja se vodi običajnim pravom,
u državi koja se vodi običajnim pravom,
08:57
if you go to a hospital and you refuse
life-saving medical treatment,
life-saving medical treatment,
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ako odete u bolnicu i odbijete medicinski
tretman koji bi vam spasio život,
tretman koji bi vam spasio život,
09:02
a judge will not order it forced upon you,
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sudac neće narediti
da vas se prisilno liječi,
da vas se prisilno liječi,
09:04
because they will respect
your self-determination and your autonomy.
your self-determination and your autonomy.
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zato što će poštivati vaše
samoodređenje i vašu autonomiju.
samoodređenje i vašu autonomiju.
09:09
Now, an equality right is the kind
of right to which you're entitled
of right to which you're entitled
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S druge strane, pravo na jednakost je
vrsta prava kojeg imate
vrsta prava kojeg imate
09:12
because you resemble someone else
in a relevant way,
in a relevant way,
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zato što ste u relevantnom smislu
slični nekome drugome,
slični nekome drugome,
09:15
and there's the rub, relevant way.
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1991
i tu je problem, relevantni smisao.
09:17
So if you are that, then because
they have the right, you're like them,
they have the right, you're like them,
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Znači ako ste to, onda zato što
oni imaju pravo, vi ste kao oni,
oni imaju pravo, vi ste kao oni,
09:21
you're entitled to the right.
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pa i vi imate to pravo.
09:23
Now, courts and legislatures
draw lines all the time.
draw lines all the time.
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Sudovi i zakonodavna tijela
stalno povlače granice.
stalno povlače granice.
09:26
Some are included, some are excluded.
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Neki su uključeni, neki su isključeni.
09:29
But you have to,
at the bare minimum you must --
at the bare minimum you must --
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Ali morate,
kao minimalan uvjet morate --
kao minimalan uvjet morate --
09:35
that line has to be a reasonable means
to a legitimate end.
to a legitimate end.
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ta granica mora biti razumno sredstvo
za postizanje legitimnog cilja.
za postizanje legitimnog cilja.
09:39
The Nonhuman Rights Project
argues that drawing a line
argues that drawing a line
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Nonhuman Rights Project
tvrdi da povlačenje granice
tvrdi da povlačenje granice
09:42
in order to enslave an autonomous
and self-determining being
and self-determining being
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kako bi se porobilo autonomno
i samoodređujuće biće,
i samoodređujuće biće,
09:45
like you're seeing behind me,
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poput onog kojeg vidite iza mene,
09:47
that that's a violation of equality.
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to je kršenje jednakosti.
09:51
We then searched through 80 jurisdictions,
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2550
Tada smo pretražili 80 jurisdikcija,
09:53
it took us seven years,
to find the jurisdiction
to find the jurisdiction
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trebalo nam je 7 godina,
da nađemo jurisdikciju
da nađemo jurisdikciju
09:56
where we wanted to begin
filing our first suit.
filing our first suit.
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gdje smo željeli podnijeti
našu prvu tužbu.
našu prvu tužbu.
09:58
We chose the state of New York.
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Izabrali smo državu New York.
09:59
Then we decided upon
who our plaintiffs are going to be.
who our plaintiffs are going to be.
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Onda smo odlučili
tko će biti naši tužitelji.
tko će biti naši tužitelji.
10:02
We decided upon chimpanzees,
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Odlučili smo se za čimpanze,
10:04
not just because Jane Goodall
was on our board of directors,
was on our board of directors,
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2851
ne samo zato što nam je Jane Goodall
bila u upravnom odboru,
bila u upravnom odboru,
10:07
but because they, Jane and others,
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već i zato što su oni, Jane i ostali,
10:10
have studied chimpanzees
intensively for decades.
intensively for decades.
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intenzivno desetljećima
proučavali čimpanze.
proučavali čimpanze.
10:13
We know the extraordinary
cognitive capabilities that they have,
cognitive capabilities that they have,
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Znali smo koje izvanredne
kognitivne sposobnosti one imaju,
kognitivne sposobnosti one imaju,
10:17
and they also resemble the kind
that human beings have.
that human beings have.
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koje također nalikuju onima
koje ljudska bića imaju.
koje ljudska bića imaju.
10:20
And so we chose chimpanzees,
and we began to then canvass the world
and we began to then canvass the world
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I tako smo izabrali čimpanze
i počeli tragati svijetom
i počeli tragati svijetom
10:25
to find the experts
in chimpanzee cognition.
in chimpanzee cognition.
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kako bi pronašli stručnjake
za kogniciju čimpanzi.
za kogniciju čimpanzi.
10:28
We found them in Japan, Sweden, Germany,
Scotland, England and the United States,
Scotland, England and the United States,
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Pronašli smo ih u Japanu, Švedskoj,
Njemačkoj, Škotskoj, Engleskoj i SAD-u,
Njemačkoj, Škotskoj, Engleskoj i SAD-u,
10:32
and amongst them, they wrote
100 pages of affidavits
100 pages of affidavits
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i oni su napisali
pismeni iskaz na 100 stranica
pismeni iskaz na 100 stranica
10:35
in which they set out more than 40 ways
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2796
u kojem su skicirali
više od 40 načina
više od 40 načina
10:38
in which their complex
cognitive capability,
cognitive capability,
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na koje njihove kompleksne
kognitivne sposobnosti,
kognitivne sposobnosti,
10:41
either individually or together,
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2020
individualno ili zajedno,
10:43
all added up to autonomy
and self-determination.
and self-determination.
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3119
dovode do autonomije i samoodređenja.
10:47
Now, these included, for example,
that they were conscious.
that they were conscious.
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3507
To je uključivalo, na primjer,
to da su one svjesne.
to da su one svjesne.
10:50
But they're also conscious
that they're conscious.
that they're conscious.
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2347
Ali one su također svjesne
da su svjesne.
da su svjesne.
10:53
They know they have a mind.
They know that others have minds.
They know that others have minds.
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2856
One znaju da imaju um.
One znaju da drugi imaju umove.
One znaju da drugi imaju umove.
10:56
They know they're individuals,
and that they can live.
and that they can live.
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2543
One znaju da su individue,
da mogu živjeti.
da mogu živjeti.
10:58
They understand that they lived yesterday
and they will live tomorrow.
and they will live tomorrow.
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3293
Razumiju da su živjele jučer
i da će živjeti sutra.
i da će živjeti sutra.
11:01
They engage in mental time travel.
They remember what happened yesterday.
They remember what happened yesterday.
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Mentalno putuju kroz vrijeme.
Sjećaju se što se dogodilo jučer.
Sjećaju se što se dogodilo jučer.
11:05
They can anticipate tomorrow,
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1451
Mogu anticipirati sutrašnjicu,
11:06
which is why it's so terrible to imprison
a chimpanzee, especially alone.
a chimpanzee, especially alone.
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4717
zbog čega je tako užasno zatočiti
čimpanzu, pogotovo samu.
čimpanzu, pogotovo samu.
11:11
It's the thing that we do
to our worst criminals,
to our worst criminals,
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2597
To je ono što činimo
našim najgorim kriminalcima,
našim najgorim kriminalcima,
11:14
and we do that to chimpanzees
without even thinking about it.
without even thinking about it.
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a činimo to i čimpanzama
bez da uopće razmišljamo o tome.
bez da uopće razmišljamo o tome.
11:19
They have some kind of moral capacity.
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2711
One imaju određenu vrstu
moralne sposobnosti.
moralne sposobnosti.
11:22
When they play economic games
with human beings,
with human beings,
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Kada s ljudskim bićima igraju
igre ekonomske strategije,
igre ekonomske strategije,
11:25
they'll spontaneously make fair offers,
even when they're not required to do so.
even when they're not required to do so.
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spontano će dati fer ponude,
čak i kada se to ne traži od njih.
čak i kada se to ne traži od njih.
11:29
They are numerate.
They understand numbers.
They understand numbers.
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2033
Razumiju brojeve.
11:31
They can do some simple math.
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1380
Mogu računati.
11:32
They can engage in language --
or to stay out of the language wars,
or to stay out of the language wars,
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4064
Mogu se koristiti jezikom,
11:36
they're involved in intentional
and referential communication
and referential communication
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3365
uključeni su u intencionalnu i
referencijalnu komunikaciju
referencijalnu komunikaciju
11:40
in which they pay attention
to the attitudes of those
to the attitudes of those
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2487
u kojoj obraćaju pažnju
na držanje onih
na držanje onih
11:42
with whom they are speaking.
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s kojima razgovaraju.
11:44
They have culture.
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1458
Imaju kulturu.
11:45
They have a material culture,
a social culture.
a social culture.
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2601
Imaju materijalnu kulturu,
socijalnu kulturu.
socijalnu kulturu.
11:48
They have a symbolic culture.
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2415
Imaju simboličku kulturu.
11:50
Scientists in the Taï Forests
in the Ivory Coast
in the Ivory Coast
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3901
Znanstvenici su u šumama Taïja,
u Obali Bjelokosti,
u Obali Bjelokosti,
11:54
found chimpanzees who were using
these rocks to smash open
these rocks to smash open
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3529
pronašli čimpanze koje su koristile
kamenje kako bi otvorile
kamenje kako bi otvorile
11:58
the incredibly hard hulls of nuts.
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2786
nevjerojatno tvrde ljuske oraha.
12:01
It takes a long time
to learn how to do that,
to learn how to do that,
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2299
Potrebno je dugo vrijeme
da bi se to naučilo,
da bi se to naučilo,
12:03
and they excavated the area
and they found
and they found
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2113
i prokopali su to područje
i otkrili
i otkrili
12:05
that this material culture,
this way of doing it,
this way of doing it,
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2833
da se ta materijalna kultura,
taj način rada,
taj način rada,
12:08
these rocks, had passed down
for at least 4,300 years
for at least 4,300 years
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3343
to kamenje, prenosilo
barem 4300 godina
barem 4300 godina
12:11
through 225 chimpanzee generations.
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4992
kroz 225 generacija čimpanzi.
12:16
So now we needed to find our chimpanzee.
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2392
Sada smo trebali pronaći našu čimpanzu.
12:19
Our chimpanzee,
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3180
Naša čimpanza,
12:22
first we found two of them
in the state of New York.
in the state of New York.
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2903
prvo smo pronašli dvije u državi New York.
12:25
Both of them would die before
we could even get our suits filed.
we could even get our suits filed.
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3204
Obje su uginule prije nego što
smo uopće uspjeli podnijeti tužbe.
smo uopće uspjeli podnijeti tužbe.
12:28
Then we found Tommy.
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1881
Onda smo pronašli Tommyja.
12:30
Tommy is a chimpanzee.
You see him behind me.
You see him behind me.
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3112
Tommy je čimpanza.
Vidite ga iza mene.
Vidite ga iza mene.
12:33
Tommy was a chimpanzee.
We found him in that cage.
We found him in that cage.
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2507
Tommy je bio čimpanza.
Pronašli smo ga u tom kavezu.
Pronašli smo ga u tom kavezu.
12:35
We found him in a small room
that was filled with cages
that was filled with cages
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3460
Pronašli smo ga u maloj sobi
punoj kaveza
punoj kaveza
12:39
in a larger warehouse structure on a used
trailer lot in central New York.
trailer lot in central New York.
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5186
u većem skladištu na korištenoj parceli
za prikolice, u centralnom New Yorku.
za prikolice, u centralnom New Yorku.
12:44
We found Kiko, who is partially deaf.
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2174
Pronašli smo Kikoa,
koji je djelomično gluh.
koji je djelomično gluh.
12:46
Kiko was in the back of a cement
storefront in western Massachusetts.
storefront in western Massachusetts.
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5642
Kiko je bio u stražnjem dijelu cementne
zgrade u zapadnom Massachusettsu.
zgrade u zapadnom Massachusettsu.
12:52
And we found Hercules and Leo.
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1897
I pronašli smo Herkula i Lea
12:54
They're two young male chimpanzees
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1703
Oni su dvije mlade muške čimpanze
12:55
who are being used for biomedical,
anatomical research at Stony Brook.
anatomical research at Stony Brook.
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3413
korištene za biomedicinska,
anatomska istraživanja u Stony Brooku.
anatomska istraživanja u Stony Brooku.
12:59
We found them.
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1305
Pronašli smo ih.
13:00
And so on the last week of December 2013,
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2712
I tako je u zadnjem tjednu
prosinca 2013. godine,
prosinca 2013. godine,
13:03
the Nonhuman Rights Project filed three
suits all across the state of New York
suits all across the state of New York
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3940
Nonhuman Rights Project podnio tri tužbe
širom države New York
širom države New York
13:07
using the same common law
writ of habeus corpus argument
writ of habeus corpus argument
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3478
koristeći se istim argumentom iz
običajnopravnog naloga habeus corpus
običajnopravnog naloga habeus corpus
13:10
that had been used with James Somerset,
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2728
koji je korišten u
slučaju Jamesa Somerseta,
slučaju Jamesa Somerseta,
13:13
and we demanded that the judges issue
these common law writs of habeus corpus.
these common law writs of habeus corpus.
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i zahtijevali smo da suci izdaju
te običajnopravne naloge habeus corpus.
te običajnopravne naloge habeus corpus.
13:18
We wanted the chimpanzees out,
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Željeli smo čimpanze na slobodi,
13:20
and we wanted them brought
to Save the Chimps,
to Save the Chimps,
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i željeli smo da budu dovedene
u Save the Chimps,
u Save the Chimps,
13:23
a tremendous chimpanzee
sanctuary in South Florida
sanctuary in South Florida
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ogromno utočište za čimpanze
u Južnoj Floridi
u Južnoj Floridi
13:27
which involves an artificial lake
with 12 or 13 islands --
with 12 or 13 islands --
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koje uključuje umjetno jezero
s 12 ili 13 otoka --
s 12 ili 13 otoka --
13:32
there are two or three acres
where two dozen chimpanzees live
where two dozen chimpanzees live
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s tri ili četiri jutra zemlje
gdje dva tuceta čimpanzi žive
gdje dva tuceta čimpanzi žive
13:35
on each of them.
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na svakom od njih.
13:36
And these chimpanzees would then live
the life of a chimpanzee,
the life of a chimpanzee,
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I te čimpanze bi tada
živjele životom čimpanze,
živjele životom čimpanze,
13:39
with other chimpanzees in an environment
that was as close to Africa as possible.
that was as close to Africa as possible.
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s drugim čimpanzama u okolišu
koji je sličan Africi koliko je to moguće.
koji je sličan Africi koliko je to moguće.
13:43
Now, all these cases are still going on.
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Svi ovi slučajevi još su aktualni.
13:48
We have not yet run into
our Lord Mansfield.
our Lord Mansfield.
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Nismo još naletjeli na
našeg lorda Mansfielda.
našeg lorda Mansfielda.
13:52
We shall. We shall.
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Hoćemo. Hoćemo.
13:54
This is a long-term strategic
litigation campaign. We shall.
litigation campaign. We shall.
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Ovo je dugoročna strateška
sudska kampanja. Hoćemo.
sudska kampanja. Hoćemo.
13:58
And to quote Winston Churchill,
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I da citiram Winstona Churchilla,
14:00
the way we view our cases
is that they're not the end,
is that they're not the end,
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način na koji gledamo na naše slučajeve
je da oni nisu kraj,
je da oni nisu kraj,
14:04
they're not even the beginning of the end,
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oni nisu čak niti početak kraja,
14:06
but they are perhaps
the end of the beginning.
the end of the beginning.
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ali oni su možda kraj početka.
14:10
Thank you.
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Hvala vam.
14:12
(Applause)
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(Pljesak)
ABOUT THE SPEAKER
Steven Wise - Animal rights lawyerBy challenging long-held legal notions of “personhood”, Steven Wise seeks to grant cognitively advanced animals access to a full spectrum of fundamental rights.
Why you should listen
Using a long-term litigation campaign based on existing habeas corpus law, Steven Wise and the Nonhuman Rights Project are redefining the playing field for animal rights law. While the high-profile New York lawsuits Wise has initiated on behalf of captive chimpanzees have yet to bear fruit, they’re only the first stage of a strategy that is changing the conversation about animal rights.
Wise’s work with the Nonhuman Rights Project is the subject of Unlocking the Cage, a forthcoming film by Chris Hegedus and D.A. Pennebaker.
Steven Wise | Speaker | TED.com