TEDGlobal 2011
Alain de Botton: Atheism 2.0
阿兰·德波顿: 无神论 2.0
Filmed:
Readability: 3.7
2,872,847 views
无神论者应该如何对待宗教? 阿兰.德波顿提出了一种 "无神论的宗教" --名为 无神论2.0, 其中包括了宗教中的传统仪式, 人与人之间的互相依赖，以及人们对超凡脱俗的需要.
Alain de Botton - Philosopher
Through his witty and literate books -- and his new School of Life -- Alain de Botton helps others find fulfillment in the everyday. Full bio
Through his witty and literate books -- and his new School of Life -- Alain de Botton helps others find fulfillment in the everyday. Full bio
Double-click the English transcript below to play the video.
00:15
One of the most common ways of dividing the world
0
0
3000
一个把人类分成两大部分很普遍的方法
00:18
is into those who believe
1
3000
2000
便是分为相信神的存在的一部分
00:20
and those who don't --
2
5000
2000
以及不相信宗教信仰的另一部分--
00:22
into the religious and the atheists.
3
7000
3000
宗教教徒和无神论者
00:25
And for the last decade or so,
4
10000
2000
在最近的十年中
00:27
it's been quite clear
5
12000
2000
对无神论者的定义
00:29
what being an atheist means.
6
14000
2000
已经是十分清楚的了
00:31
There have been some very vocal atheists
7
16000
3000
有些直话直说的无神论者
00:34
who've pointed out,
8
19000
2000
他们说
00:36
not just that religion is wrong,
9
21000
2000
宗教不仅仅是种欺骗
00:38
but that it's ridiculous.
10
23000
2000
它还非常荒谬
00:40
These people, many of whom have lived in North Oxford,
11
25000
3000
说这些话的人很多都住在牛津北部
00:43
have argued --
12
28000
2000
他们坚持 --
00:45
they've argued that believing in God
13
30000
3000
他们觉得相信上帝
00:48
is akin to believing in fairies
14
33000
2000
就像相信童话故事
00:50
and essentially that the whole thing
15
35000
2000
所以相信宗教根本就是
00:52
is a childish game.
16
37000
2000
一件很幼稚的事情
00:54
Now I think it's too easy.
17
39000
2000
我觉得那些定义太简单了
00:56
I think it's too easy
18
41000
2000
我觉得以那样的说法去排斥宗教
00:58
to dismiss the whole of religion that way.
19
43000
3000
实在是太肤浅了
01:01
And it's as easy as shooting fish in a barrel.
20
46000
2000
那样的说法不具备说服力
01:03
And what I'd like to inaugurate today
21
48000
2000
我想提出一种以无神论者
01:05
is a new way of being an atheist --
22
50000
2000
来对待宗教的方式
01:07
if you like, a new version of atheism
23
52000
3000
我把那种方式
01:10
we could call Atheism 2.0.
24
55000
3000
叫做无神论2.0
01:13
Now what is Atheism 2.0?
25
58000
2000
那什么是无神论2.0呢
01:15
Well it starts from a very basic premise:
26
60000
2000
它有个最基本的前提
01:17
of course, there's no God.
27
62000
3000
就是相信上帝是不存在的
01:20
Of course, there are no deities or supernatural spirits
28
65000
3000
当然也没有神仙或者超自然的力量
01:23
or angels, etc.
29
68000
2000
或者天使等等
01:25
Now let's move on; that's not the end of the story,
30
70000
3000
这只是最基本的一个开始
01:28
that's the very, very beginning.
31
73000
3000
现在我们来更深层次地讨论一下
01:31
I'm interested in the kind of constituency
32
76000
3000
我对有些情况非常感兴趣
01:34
that thinks something along these lines:
33
79000
2000
有些人会说：
01:36
that thinks, "I can't believe in any of this stuff.
34
81000
2000
”我完全不相信这些宗教
01:38
I can't believe in the doctrines.
35
83000
3000
那些教义 那些学说
01:41
I don't think these doctrines are right.
36
86000
2000
我觉得它们全部都是假的
01:43
But," a very important but, "I love Christmas carols.
37
88000
4000
但是，” 一个非常重要的但是，“我会喜欢圣诞颂歌
01:47
I really like the art of Mantegna.
38
92000
3000
我非常喜欢曼坦那的艺术
01:50
I really like looking at old churches.
39
95000
2000
还非常喜欢那些古老的教堂
01:52
I really like turning the pages of the Old Testament."
40
97000
3000
而且还喜欢看旧约圣书”
01:55
Whatever it may be,
41
100000
2000
这样类似的情况还有很多
01:57
you know the kind of thing I'm talking about --
42
102000
2000
你懂我的意思吧
01:59
people who are attracted to the ritualistic side,
43
104000
2000
有些人喜欢宗教仪式
02:01
the moralistic, communal side of religion,
44
106000
3000
喜欢宗教里的道德 文化
02:04
but can't bear the doctrine.
45
109000
2000
但他们就是讨厌那些教条
02:06
Until now, these people have faced a rather unpleasant choice.
46
111000
3000
直到现在，他们一直都非常为难
02:09
It's almost as though either you accept the doctrine
47
114000
3000
要么你接受那些信仰
02:12
and then you can have all the nice stuff,
48
117000
2000
然后你可以享受那些文化 艺术 道德
02:14
or you reject the doctrine and
49
119000
2000
要么你排斥那些教条
02:16
you're living in some kind of spiritual wasteland
50
121000
2000
然后你就不能拥有那些崇高的灵魂
02:18
under the guidance of CNN and Walmart.
51
123000
2000
并且在CNN和沃尔玛的光辉下被遗弃
02:20
So that's a sort of tough choice.
52
125000
2000
所以那些人就很难选择
02:22
I don't think we have to make that choice.
53
127000
2000
但我觉得我们不必去做这些选择
02:24
I think there is an alternative.
54
129000
2000
我们可以有第三种选择
02:26
I think there are ways --
55
131000
2000
我觉得--
02:28
and I'm being both very respectful and completely impious --
56
133000
3000
而卧是无比的尊重但同时不虔诚的这么说--
02:31
of stealing from religions.
57
136000
2000
我觉得我们可以从宗教里剽窃一些文化
02:33
If you don't believe in a religion,
58
138000
2000
如果你不相信宗教
02:35
there's nothing wrong with picking and mixing,
59
140000
2000
把宗教和世俗的文化混一起没什么关系
02:37
with taking out the best sides of religion.
60
142000
3000
把自己享受宗教最好的一面也没事
02:40
And for me, atheism 2.0
61
145000
2000
对我来说 无神论2.0
02:42
is about both, as I say,
62
147000
2000
是对宗教充满敬意
02:44
a respectful and an impious way
63
149000
3000
而同时又不对神有所景仰
02:47
of going through religions and saying, "What here could we use?"
64
152000
3000
就像走进宗教的世界去寻找对我们有用的东西
02:50
The secular world is full of holes.
65
155000
2000
世俗的世界有许多缺点
02:52
We have secularized badly, I would argue.
66
157000
3000
我觉得许多人都被严重地世俗化了
02:55
And a thorough study of religion
67
160000
2000
而对宗教的学习研究
02:57
could give us all sorts of insights
68
162000
2000
可以帮助我们看破尘世
02:59
into areas of life that are not going too well.
69
164000
3000
帮助我们走出生活中的窘境
03:02
And I'd like to run through a few of these today.
70
167000
4000
现在我想具体地解释一下
03:06
I'd like to kick off by looking at education.
71
171000
3000
先从教育说起
03:09
Now education is a field
72
174000
2000
非宗教的人们十分相信
03:11
the secular world really believes in.
73
176000
2000
学习、教育的力量
03:13
When we think about how we're going to make the world a better place,
74
178000
2000
我们觉得教育使世界进步
03:15
we think education; that's where we put a lot of money.
75
180000
3000
我们还在教育上花了很多钱
03:18
Education is going to give us, not only commercial skills, industrial skills,
76
183000
3000
教育不仅仅给我们很多本领，例如商业以及工业技术，
03:21
it's also going to make us better people.
77
186000
2000
还让我们变成更加优秀的人
03:23
You know the kind of thing a commencement address is, and graduation ceremonies,
78
188000
3000
像是那些开学典礼或者毕业典礼的演讲
03:26
those lyrical claims
79
191000
2000
那些话语都告诉我们
03:28
that education, the process of education -- particularly higher education --
80
193000
3000
教育的过程 特别是高等教育
03:31
will make us into nobler and better human beings.
81
196000
3000
会使我们变成高尚优秀的人才
03:34
That's a lovely idea.
82
199000
2000
那是个很好的想法
03:36
Interesting where it came from.
83
201000
2000
这想法的起源也很有意思
03:38
In the early 19th century,
84
203000
2000
在十九世纪初的西欧
03:40
church attendance in Western Europe
85
205000
2000
去教堂的人急速减少
03:42
started sliding down very, very sharply, and people panicked.
86
207000
3000
大家也变得紧张起来
03:45
They asked themselves the following question.
87
210000
2000
他们问自己
03:47
They said, where are people going to find the morality,
88
212000
3000
人们要去哪里寻找好品德
03:50
where are they going to find guidance,
89
215000
2000
去哪里寻找指引
03:52
and where are they going to find sources of consolation?
90
217000
2000
又去哪里去寻找慰藉呢
03:54
And influential voices came up with one answer.
91
219000
2000
那些有影响力的人回答道：
03:56
They said culture.
92
221000
2000
文化
03:58
It's to culture that we should look
93
223000
2000
我们要在我们的文明中
04:00
for guidance, for consolation, for morality.
94
225000
3000
寻找指引 慰藉 和好品德
04:03
Let's look to the plays of Shakespeare,
95
228000
2000
去看莎士比亚的剧本
04:05
the dialogues of Plato, the novels of Jane Austen.
96
230000
3000
柏拉图的对话 简.奥斯汀的小说
04:08
In there, we'll find a lot of the truths
97
233000
2000
我们可以找到很多真理
04:10
that we might previously have found in the Gospel of Saint John.
98
235000
3000
那些真理很可能也在<约翰福音>中出现过
04:13
Now I think that's a very beautiful idea and a very true idea.
99
238000
3000
我觉得这想法是非常美妙真实的
04:16
They wanted to replace scripture with culture.
100
241000
3000
他们想用文化积淀来代替圣典
04:19
And that's a very plausible idea.
101
244000
2000
这也是非常有道理的
04:21
It's also an idea that we have forgotten.
102
246000
4000
但这也是一个我们已经忘却了的想法
04:25
If you went to a top university --
103
250000
2000
如果你去顶尖学府
04:27
let's say you went to Harvard or Oxford or Cambridge --
104
252000
2000
像是哈佛 牛津 或者剑桥
04:29
and you said, "I've come here
105
254000
2000
然后你对他们说
04:31
because I'm in search of morality, guidance and consolation;
106
256000
2000
"我想找到指引 慰藉 和道德"
04:33
I want to know how to live,"
107
258000
2000
"我还想知道怎么好好生活"
04:35
they would show you the way to the insane asylum.
108
260000
3000
那些大学会让你去神经病医院
04:38
This is simply not what our grandest and best institutes of higher learning
109
263000
3000
品德 慰藉 指引根本不是那些大学
04:41
are in the business of.
110
266000
2000
所管辖的
04:43
Why? They don't think we need it.
111
268000
2000
为什么呢 因为他们觉得我们不需要那些
04:45
They don't think we are in an urgent need of assistance.
112
270000
3000
他们觉得我们不需要援助
04:48
They see us as adults, rational adults.
113
273000
2000
他们觉得我们是有逻辑讲道理的大人
04:50
What we need is information.
114
275000
2000
他们觉得我们只需要信息
04:52
We need data, we don't need help.
115
277000
2000
只需要资料 根本不需要帮助
04:54
Now religions start from a very different place indeed.
116
279000
3000
而宗教就完全不一样了
04:57
All religions, all major religions,
117
282000
2000
所有主流的宗教
04:59
at various points call us children.
118
284000
3000
都把教徒看成是个孩子
05:02
And like children,
119
287000
2000
就像孩子一样 宗教相信
05:04
they believe that we are in severe need of assistance.
120
289000
2000
我们十分急切地需要他们的援助
05:06
We're only just holding it together.
121
291000
2000
我们已经在了崩溃的边缘
05:08
Perhaps this is just me, maybe you.
122
293000
2000
可能只有我是这样 或许你也是这样
05:10
But anyway, we're only just holding it together.
123
295000
3000
但不管怎样 我们都在边缘线上
05:13
And we need help. Of course, we need help.
124
298000
2000
而且我们无疑需要帮助
05:15
And so we need guidance and we need didactic learning.
125
300000
3000
所以我们需要指引 需要言教
05:18
You know, in the 18th century in the U.K.,
126
303000
2000
在十八世纪的英国
05:20
the greatest preacher, greatest religious preacher, was a man called John Wesley,
127
305000
3000
有个最伟大的传教士叫做约翰.韦斯利
05:23
who went up and down this country delivering sermons,
128
308000
3000
他在全英国到处传教
05:26
advising people how they could live.
129
311000
2000
建议人们怎样好好生活
05:28
He delivered sermons on the duties of parents to their children
130
313000
2000
他传道说教 告诉父母如何对待小孩
05:30
and children to their parents,
131
315000
2000
告诉孩子如何对待父母
05:32
the duties of the rich to the poor and the poor to the rich.
132
317000
2000
也告诉富人穷人如何相互对待
05:34
He was trying to tell people how they should live
133
319000
2000
他用说教的方式
05:36
through the medium of sermons,
134
321000
2000
去告诉大家如何去生活
05:38
the classic medium of delivery of religions.
135
323000
3000
这是说教最传统的方式
05:41
Now we've given up with the idea of sermons.
136
326000
2000
现在我们摒弃了说教的方式
05:43
If you said to a modern liberal individualist,
137
328000
2000
如果你对一个现代自由的个人主义者说
05:45
"Hey, how about a sermon?"
138
330000
2000
"嘿 去布道怎么样"
05:47
they'd go, "No, no. I don't need one of those.
139
332000
2000
他们会说 "我才不要呢"
05:49
I'm an independent, individual person."
140
334000
2000
"我是个独立自主的个体"
05:51
What's the difference between a sermon
141
336000
2000
但是宗教里的布道和平时现代的讲课演讲
05:53
and our modern, secular mode of delivery, the lecture?
142
338000
3000
到底有什么区别呢
05:56
Well a sermon wants to change your life
143
341000
3000
宗教里的传教想改变你的生活
05:59
and a lecture wants to give you a bit of information.
144
344000
3000
而一个演讲只是给你一些信息资料
06:02
And I think we need to get back to that sermon tradition.
145
347000
3000
我觉得我们有必要找回传教的习俗
06:05
The tradition of sermonizing is hugely valuable,
146
350000
2000
这个习俗是非常有用的
06:07
because we are in need of guidance,
147
352000
2000
因为我们都需要指引
06:09
morality and consolation --
148
354000
2000
道德 和慰藉
06:11
and religions know that.
149
356000
2000
而宗教都知道如何帮助我们
06:13
Another point about education:
150
358000
2000
关于教育 还有一点
06:15
we tend to believe in the modern secular world
151
360000
2000
在非宗教世界里 我们开始相信
06:17
that if you tell someone something once, they'll remember it.
152
362000
3000
我们告诉别人某件事情一遍 他们就可以完全记住
06:20
Sit them in a classroom, tell them about Plato
153
365000
2000
让他们坐在教室里 在20岁时教他们柏拉图的哲学
06:22
at the age of 20, send them out for a career in management consultancy for 40 years,
154
367000
3000
然后让他们去当管理顾问当40年
06:25
and that lesson will stick with them.
155
370000
2000
而他们也不会忘记柏拉图的哲学
06:27
Religions go, "Nonsense.
156
372000
2000
而宗教会说:"胡说"
06:29
You need to keep repeating the lesson 10 times a day.
157
374000
3000
"那道理必须一天重复10次才可以"
06:32
So get on your knees and repeat it."
158
377000
2000
"所以现在你就跪下好好复习"
06:34
That's what all religions tell us:
159
379000
2000
这是宗教告诉我们的道理
06:36
"Get on you knees and repeat it 10 or 20 or 15 times a day."
160
381000
3000
"跪下然后每天复习10遍 20遍 15遍"
06:39
Otherwise our minds are like sieves.
161
384000
2000
不然我们很快就会忘记
06:41
So religions are cultures of repetition.
162
386000
2000
所以宗教培养我们重复、温习的美德
06:43
They circle the great truths again and again and again.
163
388000
2000
宗教重复伟大的真理一遍又一遍
06:45
We associate repetition with boredom.
164
390000
2000
我们会觉得重复就是无聊
06:47
"Give us the new," we're always saying.
165
392000
2000
我们一直说:"说点新鲜的"
06:49
"The new is better than the old."
166
394000
2000
"新的总是比旧的好"
06:51
If I said to you, "Okay, we're not going to have new TED.
167
396000
2000
如果我对你说 "好吧 TED视频都不会更新了"
06:53
We're just going to run through all the old ones
168
398000
2000
"我们就看那些旧的视频"
06:55
and watch them five times because they're so true.
169
400000
2000
"每天看五次 因为那些视频是在是太棒了"
06:57
We're going to watch Elizabeth Gilbert five times
170
402000
3000
"我们每天看伊莉莎白.吉尔伯托五次"
07:00
because what she says is so clever," you'd feel cheated.
171
405000
3000
"因为她的想法实在太聪明了" 你会觉得你被骗了
07:03
Not so if you're adopting a religious mindset.
172
408000
2000
但如果你信仰宗教 你就不会这样想
07:05
The other things that religions do
173
410000
2000
宗教还会帮助你
07:07
is to arrange time.
174
412000
2000
安排时间
07:09
All the major religions give us calendars.
175
414000
2000
所有主流宗教都会有特定的日历
07:11
What is a calendar?
176
416000
2000
什么是日历?
07:13
A calendar is a way of making sure that across the year
177
418000
3000
日历确保你在整一年里
07:16
you will bump into certain very important ideas.
178
421000
3000
你会遭遇一些的重大想法
07:19
In the Catholic chronology, Catholic calendar,
179
424000
3000
在天主教日历中
07:22
at the end of March you will think about St. Jerome
180
427000
2000
在三月月底你会想到圣杰罗姆
07:24
and his qualities of humility and goodness
181
429000
2000
想到他的谦卑和善良
07:26
and his generosity to the poor.
182
431000
2000
和他对穷人的慷慨
07:28
You won't do that by accident; you will do that because you are guided to do that.
183
433000
3000
你不会碰巧想到他 你想到他因为你被引导了
07:31
Now we don't think that way.
184
436000
2000
现在我们不这样想
07:33
In the secular world we think, "If an idea is important, I'll bump into it.
185
438000
2000
在非宗教世界里 我们觉得 "我会毫无预兆就想到一个好主意"
07:35
I'll just come across it."
186
440000
2000
"我是偶然想到的"
07:37
Nonsense, says the religious world view.
187
442000
2000
宗教人士会说 "胡扯"
07:39
Religious view says we need calendars, we need to structure time,
188
444000
3000
宗教人士觉得我们需要日历 需要安排好时间
07:42
we need to synchronize encounters.
189
447000
2000
我们需要同步好想法和时间
07:44
This comes across also
190
449000
2000
这还帮助宗教们
07:46
in the way in which religions set up rituals
191
451000
2000
安排传统仪式
07:48
around important feelings.
192
453000
2000
和感受到特定的感情
07:50
Take the Moon. It's really important to look at the Moon.
193
455000
3000
就像月亮 看月亮是非常重要的
07:53
You know, when you look at the Moon,
194
458000
2000
你看月亮的时候
07:55
you think, "I'm really small. What are my problems?"
195
460000
2000
你会想 "我真渺小 我有什么问题呢"
07:57
It sets things into perspective, etc., etc.
196
462000
2000
这帮助你从不同角度看世界
07:59
We should all look at the Moon a bit more often. We don't.
197
464000
2000
我们应该经常赏月 可是我们不这么做
08:01
Why don't we? Well there's nothing to tell us, "Look at the Moon."
198
466000
3000
为什么呢 因为光看月亮不会给我们什么信息
08:04
But if you're a Zen Buddhist in the middle of September,
199
469000
3000
但如果你是个信禅的 在九月中旬
08:07
you will be ordered out of your home, made to stand on a canonical platform
200
472000
3000
你会去一个专门的站台上
08:10
and made to celebrate the festival of Tsukimi,
201
475000
2000
去庆祝月见节日
08:12
where you will be given poems to read
202
477000
2000
你会吟诗去赞赏月亮
08:14
in honor of the Moon and the passage of time
203
479000
2000
你会阅读关于时间的文章
08:16
and the frailty of life that it should remind us of.
204
481000
2000
你会被重新提醒关于生命的脆弱
08:18
You'll be handed rice cakes.
205
483000
2000
你会收到米糕
08:20
And the Moon and the reflection on the Moon
206
485000
2000
而月亮和它的倒影会让你
08:22
will have a secure place in your heart.
207
487000
2000
感到内心中的一片净土
08:24
That's very good.
208
489000
2000
这是很好的事情
08:26
The other thing that religions are really aware of
209
491000
2000
宗教还注重另外一件事情
08:28
is: speak well --
210
493000
2000
就是去好好说话发言
08:30
I'm not doing a very good job of this here --
211
495000
2000
虽然我的演讲不是很出色
08:32
but oratory, oratory is absolutely key to religions.
212
497000
3000
但是演讲术对宗教来说是非常关键的
08:35
In the secular world, you can come through the university system and be a lousy speaker
213
500000
3000
在非宗教世界里 你仍然可以有个很好的工作
08:38
and still have a great career.
214
503000
2000
即使你演讲说的很糟糕
08:40
But the religious world doesn't think that way.
215
505000
2000
但是在宗教世界里不是这样的
08:42
What you're saying needs to be backed up
216
507000
2000
你说的话必须要有说服力
08:44
by a really convincing way of saying it.
217
509000
2000
去支持你的论点
08:46
So if you go to an African-American Pentecostalist church
218
511000
2000
如果你去一个在美国南部的非洲美国
08:48
in the American South
219
513000
2000
五旬节教会
08:50
and you listen to how they talk,
220
515000
2000
你会知道他们的演讲
08:52
my goodness, they talk well.
221
517000
2000
是如何出色
08:54
After every convincing point, people will go, "Amen, amen, amen."
222
519000
3000
每在说得好的地方 大家会说"阿门 阿门 阿门"
08:57
At the end of a really rousing paragraph, they'll all stand up,
223
522000
2000
在最后一段振奋人心的地方 大家都会站起来
08:59
and they'll go, "Thank you Jesus, thank you Christ, thank you Savior."
224
524000
3000
他们说 "谢谢你耶稣 谢谢上帝 谢谢救世主"
09:02
If we were doing it like they do it --
225
527000
2000
如果我们像他们那样做--
09:04
let's not do it, but if we were to do it --
226
529000
3000
好吧算了 但如果我们真的做了--
09:07
I would tell you something like, "Culture should replace scripture."
227
532000
2000
我会告诉你们 文明文化应该代替教典
09:09
And you would go, "Amen, amen, amen."
228
534000
2000
然后你们会说 "阿门 阿门 阿门"
09:11
And at the end of my talk, you would all stand up
229
536000
2000
我演讲完的时候 你们应该都站起来
09:13
and you would go, "Thank you Plato, thank you Shakespeare, thank you Jane Austen."
230
538000
2000
然后说 "谢谢你柏拉图 谢谢莎士比亚 谢谢简.奥斯汀"
09:15
And we'd know that we had a real rhythm going.
231
540000
3000
我们都知道你们会说的很好
09:18
All right, all right. We're getting there. We're getting there.
232
543000
2000
好了 快说到重点了
09:20
(Applause)
233
545000
2000
(掌声)
09:22
The other thing that religions know is we're not just brains,
234
547000
2000
宗教还知道我们人类不仅仅有智慧
09:24
we are also bodies.
235
549000
2000
我们还有躯体
09:26
And when they teach us a lesson,
236
551000
2000
所以他们通过身体
09:28
they do it via the body.
237
553000
2000
来教会我们道理
09:30
So for example,
238
555000
2000
举个例子
09:32
take the Jewish idea of forgiveness.
239
557000
2000
像是犹太人懂得宽容
09:34
Jews are very interested in forgiveness
240
559000
2000
他们很喜欢饶恕宽让
09:36
and how we should start anew and start afresh.
241
561000
2000
也喜欢重新有个崭新的生活
09:38
They don't just deliver us sermons on this.
242
563000
2000
他们不仅仅通过传教来告诉我们
09:40
They don't just give us books or words about this.
243
565000
2000
也不仅仅给我们书本去学习
09:42
They tell us to have a bath.
244
567000
2000
他们告诉我们去沐浴
09:44
So in Orthodox Jewish communities, every Friday you go to a Mikveh.
245
569000
3000
在正统的犹太社会里 每个星期五他们都去一个池子
09:47
You immerse yourself in the water,
246
572000
2000
让身体浸没在水里
09:49
and a physical action backs up a philosophical idea.
247
574000
3000
身体上的动作支撑着哲学思想
09:52
We don't tend to do that.
248
577000
2000
而世俗的人们不这么做
09:54
Our ideas are in one area and our behavior with our bodies is in another.
249
579000
3000
我们的身体和智慧在不同的世界里
09:57
Religions are fascinating in the way they try and combine the two.
250
582000
2000
而宗教却把智慧和躯体结合起来
09:59
Let's look at art now.
251
584000
2000
现在看看我们的艺术
10:01
Now art is something that in the secular world,
252
586000
3000
在世俗的世界里 我们认为艺术是崇高的
10:04
we think very highly of. We think art is really, really important.
253
589000
3000
我们认为艺术是非常重要的
10:07
A lot of our surplus wealth goes to museums, etc.
254
592000
3000
许多盈余的钱财都花在了艺术馆里
10:10
We sometimes hear it said
255
595000
2000
有时候我们听到有人说
10:12
that museums are our new cathedrals, or our new churches.
256
597000
3000
博物馆是我们新的教堂
10:15
You've heard that saying.
257
600000
2000
你们一定听过这句话
10:17
Now I think that the potential is there,
258
602000
2000
我觉得博物馆是有潜力成为新的教堂
10:19
but we've completely let ourselves down.
259
604000
2000
但是我们完全没有那样去做
10:21
And the reason we've let ourselves down
260
606000
2000
我们让自己失望的原因
10:23
is that we're not properly studying
261
608000
2000
是我们没有适当地学习宗教的艺术
10:25
how religions handle art.
262
610000
4000
是我们没有适当地学习宗教的艺术
10:29
The two really bad ideas that are hovering in the modern world
263
614000
3000
在当代世界有两个特别糟糕的想法
10:32
that inhibit our capacity to draw strength from art:
264
617000
4000
他们抑制了我们在艺术里获得力量的本领
10:36
The first idea is that art should be for art's sake --
265
621000
2000
第一 艺术就为了艺术而存在 --
10:38
a ridiculous idea --
266
623000
2000
说起来很荒谬 --
10:40
an idea that art should live in a hermetic bubble
267
625000
2000
艺术应该在一个封闭的世界里存在
10:42
and should not try to do anything with this troubled world.
268
627000
3000
不应该去打扰我们世俗的纠纷
10:45
I couldn't disagree more.
269
630000
2000
我十分十分不赞同这个想法
10:47
The other thing that we believe is that art shouldn't explain itself,
270
632000
3000
另外 我们还相信艺术不应该被诠释
10:50
that artists shouldn't say what they're up to,
271
635000
2000
艺术家们不应该解释他们到底在干什么
10:52
because if they said it, it might destroy the spell
272
637000
2000
因为如果他们说了 艺术就没有任何魔力了
10:54
and we might find it too easy.
273
639000
2000
而且我们还觉得艺术没什么深度
10:56
That's why a very common feeling when you're in a museum --
274
641000
2000
这就是为什么在艺术馆我们通常会感受到的--
10:58
let's admit it --
275
643000
2000
承认吧--
11:00
is, "I don't know what this is about."
276
645000
2000
我们会想 "我完全不知道这作品是什么东西"
11:02
But if we're serious people, we don't admit to that.
277
647000
2000
但如果我们是严肃的人 我们是不会承认的
11:04
But that feeling of puzzlement is structural
278
649000
3000
但正是那样的感觉构造了
11:07
to contemporary art.
279
652000
3000
当代艺术
11:10
Now religions have a much saner attitude to art.
280
655000
2000
现在宗教对艺术有了很多理智的态度
11:12
They have no trouble telling us what art is about.
281
657000
2000
他们可以很简单告诉我们什么是艺术
11:14
Art is about two things in all the major faiths.
282
659000
2000
在主流的信仰中 艺术无非关于两种东西
11:16
Firstly, it's trying to remind you
283
661000
2000
第一 艺术告诉你
11:18
of what there is to love.
284
663000
2000
这世界有爱
11:20
And secondly, it's trying to remind you
285
665000
2000
第二 艺术提醒你
11:22
of what there is to fear and to hate.
286
667000
2000
这世界也有恐惧和憎恨
11:24
And that's what art is.
287
669000
2000
而这就是艺术
11:26
Art is a visceral encounter with the most important ideas of your faith.
288
671000
3000
艺术表达了你内心最重要的信仰
11:29
So as you walk around a church,
289
674000
2000
所以当你走进教堂
11:31
or a mosque or a cathedral,
290
676000
2000
或者走进清真寺的时候
11:33
what you're trying to imbibe, what you're imbibing is,
291
678000
2000
通过你的五官
11:35
through your eyes, through your senses,
292
680000
2000
你最想感受的是那些真理
11:37
truths that have otherwise come to you through your mind.
293
682000
2000
那些掠过你思想中的真理
11:39
Essentially it's propaganda.
294
684000
2000
本质上那是宗教的宣传
11:41
Rembrandt is a propagandist
295
686000
2000
在基督教看来
11:43
in the Christian view.
296
688000
2000
伦勃朗是个宣传者
11:45
Now the word "propaganda" sets off alarm bells.
297
690000
2000
现在 "宣传"一词让人们警觉
11:47
We think of Hitler, we think of Stalin. Don't, necessarily.
298
692000
2000
我们想到希特勒和斯大林 但其实没有这个必要
11:49
Propaganda is a manner of being didactic in honor of something.
299
694000
3000
这只是一个宣扬某种东西的手段
11:52
And if that thing is good, there's no problem with it at all.
300
697000
3000
如果宣扬的东西是有益处的 那这手段也没什么问题
11:55
My view is that museums should take a leaf out of the book of religions.
301
700000
4000
我觉得艺术馆应该向宗教学习
11:59
And they should make sure that when you walk into a museum --
302
704000
2000
艺术馆应该确保 当游客走进馆内时候--
12:01
if I was a museum curator,
303
706000
2000
如果我是馆长
12:03
I would make a room for love, a room for generosity.
304
708000
3000
我会专门为爱 为慷慨而准备特定的展览
12:06
All works of art are talking to us about things.
305
711000
2000
所有的艺术品都有相同的主题
12:08
And if we were able to arrange spaces
306
713000
2000
如果有更多的空间
12:10
where we could come across works
307
715000
2000
我们可以更深刻地了解艺术品
12:12
where we would be told, use these works of art
308
717000
2000
用这些艺术
12:14
to cement these ideas in your mind,
309
719000
2000
来让美好的品德在脑海中变得更加深刻
12:16
we would get a lot more out of art.
310
721000
2000
我们会从艺术中学到更多
12:18
Art would pick up the duty that it used to have
311
723000
3000
艺术会让我们重新肩负起曾经被摒弃的责任
12:21
and that we've neglected because of certain mis-founded ideas.
312
726000
3000
那些因为误导而被忽视的责任
12:24
Art should be one of the tools
313
729000
2000
艺术应该是一种工具
12:26
by which we improve our society.
314
731000
2000
一种能让社会进步的工具
12:28
Art should be didactic.
315
733000
3000
艺术也应该是教化的
12:31
Let's think of something else.
316
736000
2000
现在想想另外的东西
12:33
The people in the modern world, in the secular world,
317
738000
2000
想想那些在现代世俗的人们
12:35
who are interested in matters of the spirit,
318
740000
2000
其中有些人热衷追寻灵魂
12:37
in matters of the mind,
319
742000
2000
喜欢崇高的思想
12:39
in higher soul-like concerns,
320
744000
3000
也热衷于深层次的灵性
12:42
tend to be isolated individuals.
321
747000
2000
那些人通常都是孤单的
12:44
They're poets, they're philosophers, they're photographers, they're filmmakers.
322
749000
3000
他们是诗人 哲学家 摄影师 或是电影制作人
12:47
And they tend to be on their own.
323
752000
2000
他们凭自己的力量生存下去
12:49
They're our cottage industries. They are vulnerable, single people.
324
754000
3000
他们独立完成工作 他们脆弱 孤单
12:52
And they get depressed and they get sad on their own.
325
757000
2000
没人分担他们的痛苦不安
12:54
And they don't really change much.
326
759000
2000
然而他们不会做多少改变
12:56
Now think about religions, think about organized religions.
327
761000
2000
现在想想那些有组织的宗教
12:58
What do organized religions do?
328
763000
2000
那些有组织的宗教干什么的呢
13:00
They group together, they form institutions.
329
765000
3000
他们聚在一起 他们创造机构
13:03
And that has all sorts of advantages.
330
768000
2000
这些都很有益处
13:05
First of all, scale, might.
331
770000
3000
第一 他们有规模和力量
13:08
The Catholic Church pulled in 97 billion dollars last year
332
773000
3000
据华尔街日报
13:11
according to the Wall Street Journal.
333
776000
2000
天主教教堂去年筹了97亿美元
13:13
These are massive machines.
334
778000
2000
这些都是有权有势的机构
13:15
They're collaborative, they're branded, they're multinational,
335
780000
3000
他们相互合作 有好名望 跨国
13:18
and they're highly disciplined.
336
783000
2000
他们严谨纪律
13:20
These are all very good qualities.
337
785000
2000
那些都是很优秀的品质
13:22
We recognize them in relation to corporations.
338
787000
2000
我们还认同他们像个企业
13:24
And corporations are very like religions in many ways,
339
789000
2000
公司企业和宗教有些相似之处
13:26
except they're right down at the bottom of the pyramid of needs.
340
791000
2000
不过企业只提供最基本的物质
13:28
They're selling us shoes and cars.
341
793000
2000
企业给我们鞋子和汽车
13:30
Whereas the people who are selling us the higher stuff --
342
795000
2000
但是像治疗师 诗人那些人
13:32
the therapists, the poets --
343
797000
2000
他们给我们更高层次的东西
13:34
are on their own and they have no power,
344
799000
2000
但是他们是独立的 没有强大的权势
13:36
they have no might.
345
801000
2000
他们没有力量
13:38
So religions are the foremost example
346
803000
3000
所以宗教就是个最棒的例子
13:41
of an institution that is fighting for the things of the mind.
347
806000
3000
告诉我们一个机构对于追思来说是很重要的
13:44
Now we may not agree with what religions are trying to teach us,
348
809000
3000
我们可能不同意宗教所传授的教条
13:47
but we can admire the institutional way
349
812000
2000
但是我们可以赞赏他们组织
13:49
in which they're doing it.
350
814000
2000
起来的方法
13:51
Books alone, books written by lone individuals,
351
816000
3000
个人作家所写的书本身
13:54
are not going to change anything.
352
819000
2000
是不会带来什么改变的
13:56
We need to group together.
353
821000
2000
我们需要团结在一起
13:58
If you want to change the world, you have to group together, you have to be collaborative.
354
823000
3000
如果我们想改变世界 我们必须团结奋斗
14:01
And that's what religions do.
355
826000
2000
而这就是宗教所做的
14:03
They are multinational, as I say,
356
828000
2000
我说过他们是跨国的
14:05
they are branded, they have a clear identity,
357
830000
3000
他们有名有望 他们有明确的一致性
14:08
so they don't get lost in a busy world.
358
833000
2000
所以他们不会在繁乱的世界中迷失
14:10
That's something we can learn from.
359
835000
2000
这是值得我们学习的
14:12
I want to conclude.
360
837000
2000
最后
14:14
Really what I want to say
361
839000
2000
我想说的是
14:16
is for many of you who are operating in a range of different fields,
362
841000
3000
你们这些来自各行各业的人们
14:19
there is something to learn from the example of religion --
363
844000
3000
你们绝对可以从宗教中学习到些东西
14:22
even if you don't believe any of it.
364
847000
3000
即使你一点都不相信宗教的信仰
14:25
If you're involved in anything that's communal,
365
850000
2000
如果你生活在社会里
14:27
that involves lots of people getting together,
366
852000
2000
如果你和很多人接触
14:29
there are things for you in religion.
367
854000
2000
宗教里绝对有对你有用的东西
14:31
If you're involved, say, in a travel industry in any way,
368
856000
3000
如果你和旅游业有关
14:34
look at pilgrimage.
369
859000
2000
去参考朝圣
14:36
Look very closely at pilgrimage.
370
861000
2000
仔细地去学习研究朝圣
14:38
We haven't begun to scratch the surface
371
863000
2000
我们根本还不知道
14:40
of what travel could be
372
865000
2000
旅行到底是怎么一回事
14:42
because we haven't looked at what religions do with travel.
373
867000
2000
因为我们从来不学习宗教人士是如何旅行的
14:44
If you're in the art world,
374
869000
2000
如果你玩艺术
14:46
look at the example of what religions are doing with art.
375
871000
2000
去参考宗教人士是怎么对待艺术的
14:48
And if you're an educator in any way,
376
873000
3000
如果你是在教育界里
14:51
again, look at how religions are spreading ideas.
377
876000
3000
去参考宗教人士是如何传播思想的
14:54
You may not agree with the ideas,
378
879000
2000
你可能不喜欢那些思想
14:56
but my goodness, they're highly effective mechanisms for doing so.
379
881000
3000
那他们传播的方式真的是超级有效
14:59
So really my concluding point
380
884000
2000
所以我最后想说的是
15:01
is you may not agree with religion,
381
886000
2000
你可以不认同宗教
15:03
but at the end of the day,
382
888000
2000
但是最后我想告诉你们
15:05
religions are so subtle, so complicated,
383
890000
2000
宗教很微妙 很复杂
15:07
so intelligent in many ways
384
892000
2000
也非常富有智慧
15:09
that they're not fit to be abandoned to the religious alone;
385
894000
3000
我们不应该否定全部关于宗教的事情
15:12
they're for all of us.
386
897000
2000
每个人都能从宗教中学到东西
15:14
Thank you very much.
387
899000
2000
谢谢大家
15:16
(Applause)
388
901000
17000
(掌声)
15:33
Chris Anderson: Now this is actually a courageous talk,
389
918000
2000
CA: 这真是一个无畏的演讲
15:35
because you're kind of setting up yourself in some ways
390
920000
2000
在某些地方你似乎把自己
15:37
to be ridiculed in some quarters.
391
922000
2000
当成了一个笑柄让大家嘲弄啊
15:39
AB: You can get shot by both sides.
392
924000
2000
阿兰： 不管怎么说我都有可能被批评
15:41
You can get shot by the hard-headed atheists,
393
926000
2000
我可以被固执的无神论者批评
15:43
and you can get shot by those who fully believe.
394
928000
3000
也可以被那些宗教人士扼杀
15:46
CA: Incoming missiles from North Oxford at any moment.
395
931000
2000
任何时候都会被北牛津的导弹打趴
15:48
AB: Indeed.
396
933000
2000
阿瑟： 是啊是啊
15:50
CA: But you left out one aspect of religion
397
935000
3000
CA: 但是你漏掉了宗教的一个方面
15:53
that a lot of people might say
398
938000
2000
很多人可能会说
15:55
your agenda could borrow from,
399
940000
2000
能借你的议程
15:57
which is this sense --
400
942000
2000
这是种感觉--
15:59
that's actually probably the most important thing to anyone who's religious --
401
944000
2000
可能是对信仰宗教人最重要的感觉 --
16:01
of spiritual experience,
402
946000
2000
精神的体验
16:03
of some kind of connection
403
948000
2000
某种与比你更伟大的东西
16:05
with something that's bigger than you are.
404
950000
2000
的连接
16:07
Is there any room for that experience in Atheism 2.0?
405
952000
3000
在你的无神论2.0中 有没有类似的体验呢
16:10
AB: Absolutely. I, like many of you, meet people
406
955000
3000
阿兰: 当然啦 我像你们一样遇到很多人
16:13
who say things like, "But isn't there something bigger than us,
407
958000
3000
他们说 "难道世界上不存在什么
16:16
something else?"
408
961000
2000
比我们人类更伟大的东西吗?"
16:18
And I say, "Of course." And they say, "So aren't you sort of religious?"
409
963000
3000
我说 "当然有啦" 他们说 "那你就是认同宗教的咯?"
16:21
And I go, "No." Why does that sense of mystery,
410
966000
3000
我说 "不是啊" 为什么这些神秘的感觉
16:24
that sense of the dizzying scale of the universe,
411
969000
3000
被宇宙的伟大所触动的感觉
16:27
need to be accompanied by a mystical feeling?
412
972000
3000
一定要和神扯上关系呢
16:30
Science and just observation
413
975000
2000
科学和观察可以给我们那种感觉
16:32
gives us that feeling without it,
414
977000
2000
这和神没有关系
16:34
so I don't feel the need.
415
979000
2000
所以我不觉得有相信神的必要
16:36
The universe is large and we are tiny,
416
981000
2000
宇宙很大 而我们很渺小
16:38
without the need for further religious superstructure.
417
983000
4000
这不需要超自然学说来解释吧
16:42
So one can have so-called spiritual moments
418
987000
2000
所以一个人可以有精神上的体验
16:44
without belief in the spirit.
419
989000
2000
即使他不相信有灵魂这东西
16:46
CA: Actually, let me just ask a question.
420
991000
2000
CA: 好吧 现在让我问个问题
16:48
How many people here would say
421
993000
2000
在场观众们有多少是觉得
16:50
that religion is important to them?
422
995000
2000
宗教对他们是非常重要的呢
16:54
Is there an equivalent process
423
999000
3000
有没有一种类似的说法
16:57
by which there's a sort of bridge
424
1002000
2000
你们觉得他刚才说的和你们想说的
16:59
between what you're talking about and what you would say to them?
425
1004000
3000
有种类似的地方呢
17:02
AB: I would say that there are many, many gaps in secular life
426
1007000
2000
阿兰: 我觉得世俗的世界是有许多缺点的
17:04
and these can be plugged.
427
1009000
2000
但是那些缺点是可以被弥补的
17:06
It's not as though, as I try to suggest,
428
1011000
2000
但这不是说
17:08
it's not as though either you have religion
429
1013000
2000
要么你相信宗教
17:10
and then you have to accept all sorts of things,
430
1015000
2000
然后你就要相信宗教所有的教条
17:12
or you don't have religion
431
1017000
2000
要么你不相信宗教
17:14
and then you're cut off from all these very good things.
432
1019000
3000
然后拒绝一切宗教带来的益处
17:17
It's so sad that we constantly say,
433
1022000
3000
很可悲的是我们经常说
17:20
"I don't believe so I can't have community,
434
1025000
2000
"我不信教所以我不能有社群
17:22
so I'm cut off from morality,
435
1027000
2000
所以我没有好的道德
17:24
so I can't go on a pilgrimage."
436
1029000
2000
所以我不能去朝圣"
17:26
One wants to say, "Nonsense. Why not?"
437
1031000
2000
有人会说 "胡扯 为什么不呢"
17:28
And that's really the spirit of my talk.
438
1033000
2000
这正是我演说的重点
17:30
There's so much we can absorb.
439
1035000
2000
宗教有很多可取之处
17:32
Atheism shouldn't cut itself off from the rich sources of religion.
440
1037000
3000
相信无神论不应该完全无视宗教里的内涵
17:35
CA: It seems to me that there's plenty of people in the TED community
441
1040000
3000
CA: 似乎在TED群体中
17:38
who are atheists.
442
1043000
2000
有很多人是无神论的
17:40
But probably most people in the community
443
1045000
2000
但是很多人可能都认为
17:42
certainly don't think that religion is going away any time soon
444
1047000
3000
宗教是不可能在短时间内消失的
17:45
and want to find the language
445
1050000
2000
他们还想找到适合的方法
17:47
to have a constructive dialogue
446
1052000
3000
去建设性地谈论问题
17:50
and to feel like we can actually talk to each other
447
1055000
2000
他们还觉得我们彼此可以互相沟通
17:52
and at least share some things in common.
448
1057000
2000
或者至少有些共同点
17:54
Are we foolish to be optimistic
449
1059000
2000
对于这样乐观的想法 我们是不是太傻了呢
17:56
about the possibility of a world
450
1061000
2000
那些关于神的隔阂、争论
17:58
where, instead of religion being the great rallying cry
451
1063000
3000
是不是有彼此了解的可能性呢
18:01
of divide and war,
452
1066000
2000
持有两种学说的人
18:03
that there could be bridging?
453
1068000
2000
是否有可能彼此沟通呢
18:05
AB: No, we need to be polite about differences.
454
1070000
3000
阿兰: 不一定 我们只是需要礼貌地对待另一方
18:08
Politeness is a much-overlooked virtue.
455
1073000
2000
有时候礼貌都被我们忽视了
18:10
It's seen as hypocrisy.
456
1075000
2000
有时候我们觉得那是虚伪
18:12
But we need to get to a stage when you're an atheist
457
1077000
2000
如果你是个无神论者 而有个人对你说
18:14
and someone says, "Well you know, I did pray the other day,"
458
1079000
3000
"你知道嘛 那天我祈祷了"
18:17
you politely ignore it.
459
1082000
2000
你应该礼貌地无视这话
18:19
You move on.
460
1084000
2000
该干嘛干嘛去
18:21
Because you've agreed on 90 percent of things,
461
1086000
3000
因为你们两个可以认同90%的事情
18:24
because you have a shared view on so many things,
462
1089000
2000
因为你们的世界有很多相似的地方
18:26
and you politely differ.
463
1091000
2000
你们只是稍微有那么一点不同 但不伤和气
18:28
And I think that's what the religious wars of late have ignored.
464
1093000
4000
我认为近年的有无神的争论忽视了这点
18:32
They've ignored the possibility of harmonious disagreement.
465
1097000
3000
他们忘记了人们即使不同也能和谐地在一起
18:36
CA: And finally, does this new thing that you're proposing
466
1101000
2000
CA: 最后 你说的无神论2.0
18:38
that's not a religion but something else,
467
1103000
2000
它本身不是个宗教
18:40
does it need a leader,
468
1105000
2000
但它需要一个领袖吗
18:42
and are you volunteering to be the pope?
469
1107000
2000
而你又是否愿意当这个领袖呢
18:44
(Laughter)
470
1109000
2000
(笑声)
18:46
AB: Well, one thing that we're all very suspicious of
471
1111000
2000
阿兰: 好吧 我们都对个人领袖
18:48
is individual leaders.
472
1113000
2000
非常警惕
18:50
It doesn't need it.
473
1115000
2000
但无神论不需要领袖
18:52
What I've tried to lay out is a framework
474
1117000
2000
我所说的只是一个框架理论
18:54
and I'm hoping that people can just fill it in.
475
1119000
3000
而我希望大家可以自由发挥实践
18:57
I've sketched a sort of broad framework.
476
1122000
2000
我只是大概地勾勒出一个结构
18:59
But wherever you are, as I say, if you're in the travel industry, do that travel bit.
477
1124000
3000
那不管你是谁 就像如果你是搞旅游的 那就专门钻研宗教中的旅游
19:02
If you're in the communal industry, look at religion and do the communal bit.
478
1127000
3000
如果你在社群里工作 那就专门钻研宗教里的社群方面
19:05
So it's a wiki project.
479
1130000
2000
所以这就像维基百科一样
19:07
(Laughter)
480
1132000
2000
(笑声)
19:09
CA: Alain, thank you for sparking many conversations later.
481
1134000
3000
CA: 阿兰 谢谢你精彩的回答
19:12
(Applause)
482
1137000
3000
(掌声)
ABOUT THE SPEAKER
Alain de Botton - PhilosopherThrough his witty and literate books -- and his new School of Life -- Alain de Botton helps others find fulfillment in the everyday.
Why you should listen
It started in 1997, when Alain de Botton turned away from writing novels and instead wrote a touching extended essay titled How Proust Can Change Your Life, which became an unlikely blockbuster in the "self-help"category. His subsequent books take on some of the fundamental worries of modern life (am I happy? where exactly do I stand?), informed by his deep reading in philosophy and by a novelist's eye for small, perfect moments. His newest book is The Pleasures and Sorrows of Work.
In 2008, de Botton helped start the School of Life in London, a social enterprise determined to make learning and therapy relevant in today's uptight culture. His goal is (through any of his mediums) to help clients learn "how to live wisely and well."
Alain de Botton | Speaker | TED.com